Lowering Advice Knowlege Needed Please!!

[ShiZzLe]

Hey all. :)

I am getting some 18's (VE SS wheels) for my car soon (VX S2 Acclaim) and i already have 2x Ultra low king springs and 2 x super low kings springs from my mates old VY ute, but I'm worried the Ultras will be too low for daily use on my car, maybe even the supers? i am unsure on what it will look like.

Thats where i need help, Advice and opinions. :bow:

I am thinking super lows all round?

Also are new shocks needed?

Thanks

Grant

[TAKEITEZ]

what are the part numbers as printed on the springs???
that'll help a little...

[Wonky]

Grant, best thing to do is ring or email Kings for advice. They have always responded quickly to me (within a day) when I've email them.

If you go to their website www.kingsprings.com.au and download their catalogue you will find that ute and sedan springs are listed as different. I don't know what that means about interchangeability i.e. whether they just won't fit, or whether they will but to do so is not advisable or what........

Again, ring/email Kings for advice - they are the best source for advice and have never tried a hard sell on me.

As for shocks - if you do a search you'll find some people say, nah, don't bother as they didn't and haven't had a problem whereas others say definitely get short body shocks as to not do so is potentially dangerous in a number of ways (eg. even the spring falling out).

I'm definitely in the second camp - get a set of KYB or similar short body shocks - probably around $400 for all four and give you increased safety and comfort.

Gary

Hey all. :)

I am getting some 18's (VE SS wheels) for my car soon (VX S2 Acclaim) and i already have 2x Ultra low king springs and 2 x super low kings springs from my mates old VY ute, but I'm worried the Ultras will be too low for daily use on my car, maybe even the supers? i am unsure on what it will look like.

Thats where i need help, Advice and opinions. :bow:

I am thinking super lows all round?

Also are new shocks needed?

Thanks

Grant

[Ron SS]

further to Wonky's advice .... be careful that when you lower your VX that you still have some spring travel left. It is one thing to have it looking nice but if there is less than 50mm spring travel left before you hit the bump stops then you will have a hard and dangerous riding car.

Remember that if you hit the bump stops with body roll mid corner, the car could easily slide without much warning .... been there, done that! Simple to check clearance because you can feel the bump stops inside the rubber boot on the front struts and see them at the rear.

Lowering a VX will also change the toe and camber settings, especially at the rear and this will need to be checked and adjusted to suit. Offset bushes may be needed in the rear to get correct wheel alignment. KYB, Pedders and Boge make shockers to suit, or if you have lots of dollars, Bilstein and Koni.

[Token]

im running bmw springs in the rear of my car, so lower than those springs u have and run it daily...

drops down a bit when in drive. tucking rim lol

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/Shibbydiwhoopda/DSCF2727.jpg

thats with 20's tho, 18's may be more comfy, bigger tyre

oh camber kit is a must if u cant adjust it urself in the vx, vy's u can, mine was fine, but touching the gaurd, so added camber but slightly to much and have now got some tyre wear on the inside drivers wheel :(

[Bravotwozero]

Ah BMW springs. For towing the invisible caravan look! :rofl:

Awesome photo btw! :)

[ShiZzLe]

Grant, best thing to do is ring or email Kings for advice. They have always responded quickly to me (within a day) when I've email them.

Again, ring/email Kings for advice - they are the best source for advice and have never tried a hard sell on me.

As for shocks - if you do a search you'll find some people say, nah, don't bother as they didn't and haven't had a problem whereas others say definitely get short body shocks as to not do so is potentially dangerous in a number of ways (eg. even the spring falling out).

I'm definitely in the second camp - get a set of KYB or similar short body shocks - probably around $400 for all four and give you increased safety and comfort.

Thanks for a advice. i will do that and see what response i get. Springs falling out... ouch, might go the safer way and save a bit more for a set of kyb as you described.


be careful that when you lower your VX that you still have some spring travel left. It is one thing to have it looking nice but if there is less than 50mm spring travel left before you hit the bump stops then you will have a hard and dangerous riding car.

Lowering a VX will also change the toe and camber settings, especially at the rear and this will need to be checked and adjusted to suit. Offset bushes may be needed in the rear to get correct wheel alignment.

Geez i thought it was as simple as putting in new springs and shocks

i don't want it Dumped. Just want a perfect balance. something lower ten stock that looks nice.

Also. i'm really confused now.. i got this response from tyre power about my VE wheels for my car.

True or Not true. got me worried now.

"Hi Grant,

We can get the wheels machined to suit the hub and we will also need
to have new sleaves fitted into the wheel stud holes. If it has the original
VE tyres you will find they will not clear the strut so you will need a
lower profile tyre.
In this case you will not need to adjust speedo."

New NEW Tyres!!! the whole ideas of getting one with heaps of tread was to avoid that! is this correct? i never head of this before.

[Wonky]

I believe what the Tyrepower guy is saying is that (from what I've heard) the widest you can go on VX etc is 225 profile tyres or else you'll hit the strut towers (or something??). The originals are 245s. Or maybe it's just that you need your guards rolled, which is no big deal. See Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=98946)

Given your VX is a S2 it will have the extra link in the rear suspension which means that as long as you don't go really low you shouldn't need to muck around with camber kits, which can be fairly expensive (mainly labour). Individual cars vary due to variance in the tolerances on different components but unless you go really low you'll probably get away without one.

[pauley]

further to Wonky's advice .... be careful that when you lower your VX that you still have some spring travel left. It is one thing to have it looking nice but if there is less than 50mm spring travel left before you hit the bump stops then you will have a hard and dangerous riding car.

Remember that if you hit the bump stops with body roll mid corner, the car could easily slide without much warning .... been there, done that! Simple to check clearance because you can feel the bump stops inside the rubber boot on the front struts and see them at the rear.

Lowering a VX will also change the toe and camber settings, especially at the rear and this will need to be checked and adjusted to suit. Offset bushes may be needed in the rear to get correct wheel alignment. KYB, Pedders and Boge make shockers to suit, or if you have lots of dollars, Bilstein and Koni.

Can you give me some info on lowering a ve calais ie how far who to do it , cost and max tyre widths on 19"rims at rear when lowered
Pauley

[ShiZzLe]

I believe what the Tyrepower guy is saying is that (from what I've heard) the widest you can go on VX etc is 225 profile tyres or else you'll hit the strut towers (or something??). The originals are 245s. Or maybe it's just that you need your guards rolled, which is no big deal. See http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=98946

Given your VX is a S2 it will have the extra link in the rear suspension which means that as long as you don't go really low you shouldn't need to muck around with camber kits.

My currents are 225 50 16" so the VE tyers are wider... i was told all you had to do was enlarge center holes.

Guards rolled, what does that involve? how much does that cost and who does it?

No i don't want it dumped, just lower then stock so it has a nice lines and ride to it.

[Wonky]

Can you give me some info on lowering a ve calais ie how far who to do it , cost and max tyre widths on 19"rims at rear when lowered
Pauley

Pauley, see Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=68171) for plenty of info on lowering VEs. Cost for springs and labour inc 4 wheel alignment should be around the $500 mark using new springs (unless you go coilovers in which case you are looking at $2,000 to $2,500). Any suspension or tyre place should be able to do it but hopefully the other WA guys will give you some good recommendations.

Unfortunately nobody has released any reasonably priced short body shocks for VE yet. Hopefully the release of it as a Pontiac in the US will kick that along.

As far as tyres, according to some other recent threads on here you can go at least 275 (same as HSVs run) on the rear if it is not too low without needing the guards rolled. Someone said 295! :eek: I am going 20x10 on the rear soon with 275s and am probably going to get my guards rolled just to be safe given it has been lowered 50+mm on King super super lows.

[ShiZzLe]

what are the part numbers as printed on the springs???
that'll help a little...

2 X KHFL 47SL

2 X KHRL 127SSL

thats the spring i have. i am just after SL all round i think

Thinking i might go King Spring Lows.. then i wont have to worry about new struts/shocks

[Ron SS]

Can you give me some info on lowering a ve calais ie how far who to do it , cost and max tyre widths on 19"rims at rear when lowered
Pauley


A VE will hit the bump stops at 340mm front and similar at the rear. Std height is 400 F & R, although they do vary and can sag with time. Std a VE has about 60mm spring travel. The front strut has a 1 to 1 motion ratio, the rear has some leverage, around 50%. Hence the rears can be lowered a bit more but it is marginal. When you read how some VE owners have lowered their cars to 350 or 360 mm, you have to wonder how they go when they hit a bump or get a bit of body roll in corners. Mine is 390 F 380 R and I use a softer bump rubber (Koni) and I reckon that is as low as I would ever want it. Walkinshaw also reached the same conclusion too. To safely go lower than say 380, you really should consider the Teins or Pedders fully adjustable struts. When the car hits the bump stops mid corner, you will certainly know all about it ...hang on!!

[Wonky]

Guards rolled, what does that involve? how much does that cost and who does it?
Exactly how it's done I don't really know but basically they knock in the inner guard to give you more clearance room. Many tyre places do it themselves but I am taking mine to a panel beater (hopefully they have less chance of kinking it or cracking the paint). Should be around the $100 mark per pair.

[Token]

Ah BMW springs. For towing the invisible caravan look! :rofl:

Awesome photo btw! :)

she's a heavy caravan :P

haa cheers, took it myself :D


umm rolling gaurds is pretty straight foward, i did my fronts, rubber mallet and a heatgun/blow dryer

[TAKEITEZ]

2 X KHFL 47SL

2 X KHRL 127SSL

thats the spring i have. i am just after SL all round i think

Thinking i might go King Spring Lows.. then i wont have to worry about new struts/shocks

they will work fine... the top ones are fronts for a V6 which will fit perfectly... bottom ones are rears for a VU - VZ ute rear...
i used those exact springs to lower a sedan and it looked lovely... not stupidly low, but it did look nice.

the 127SSL is a ute spring, but it will fit with zero issues what so ever.

[pauley]

A VE will hit the bump stops at 340mm front and similar at the rear. Std height is 400 F & R, although they do vary and can sag with time. Std a VE has about 60mm spring travel. The front strut has a 1 to 1 motion ratio, the rear has some leverage, around 50%. Hence the rears can be lowered a bit more but it is marginal. When you read how some VE owners have lowered their cars to 350 or 360 mm, you have to wonder how they go when they hit a bump or get a bit of body roll in corners. Mine is 390 F 380 R and I use a softer bump rubber (Koni) and I reckon that is as low as I would ever want it. Walkinshaw also reached the same conclusion too. To safely go lower than say 380, you really should consider the Teins or Pedders fully adjustable struts. When the car hits the bump stops mid corner, you will certainly know all about it ...hang on!!

where are the heights measured from??Pauley

[ShiZzLe]

they will work fine... the top ones are fronts for a V6 which will fit perfectly... bottom ones are rears for a VU - VZ ute rear...
i used those exact springs to lower a sedan and it looked lovely... not stupidly low, but it did look nice.

the 127SSL is a ute spring, but it will fit with zero issues what so ever.

Thanks, i am thinking i might get another set of 47SL for the rear instead of the 127SSL's. Also what shocks are recommended for a VX, Not too pricey if avoidable.

In regards to my VE wheels i purchased with almost new rubber on them.

This is advice from Tyre's and More.

"Hi Grant,

If you have the original VE tyres 245/45r18 they will rub on strut,
you will need to run 235/40r18 tyres to fit correctly."


what is the best option? Apparently with 3mm spacers they wont rub on strut, however i will need rear guards rolled.. anyone keen to do it for me for perhaps a slab ? :P rear only.

[Wonky]

where are the heights measured from??Pauley

Centre of rim to bottom of wheel arch. Mine is only 345mm at the rear and I've never had any issues, although I do have softer (and I believe possibly shorter) bump stops in the rear, which may help. Given my disabilities I also don't push hard through corner, especially bumpy ones! :D

However, I know of others with the same height and standard bumpstops and I don't believe they have issues either.

[ShiZzLe]

Ok unfortunally, due to trouble selling recently purchased VE SS wheels with original rubber.

i am forced to sell the rubber by itself and get the wheels machined, cheapest i have found in Melbourne is Advanced alloys. but even then its over $200

so my plan is to somehow find cheaper to get them machined, try and find someone to buy my rubber from the VE SS wheels. take the machined wheels to tyre place and get new 235/40/r18 rubber and alignment, balance etc with nuts and stuff.

I'm unsure what rubber to get if this is the way i go.

It's a more expensive and longer option, otherwise.. go back to my original idea. of 3mm spacers on front, and rear guards rolled.. to get the wheels to fit with VE rubber.

how would i go with insurance on that etc. id have to get speed o adjusted too. (not my prefered option)

Thanks

Grant