NGK TR6 for l98

[vessm]

ive got a ve ss and have been told by steve at oztrack that ngk tr6 plugs are the way to go.

has anyone else used these in there ve's?

[GODSMACK]

Yep, i have one hanging from my rear vision mirror.. There awesome...

[WLDLS1]

Hmm. im still not 100% with them. i dont know. they are good but i find my setup goes and runs better with iridiums.
the tr6 seems to sit further up in the head where the iridiums sit a little further in. dont know if it makes a difference.
tr6 are good value for money but as i say im just not 100% with them.
on saying that they are grouse for NOS.
just my opinion.

[Y55-7UT]

on saying that they are grouse for NOS.
just my opinion.

your on the money, i think they are a definate for forced induction and nos setups...even high compression.


do a search, heaps of shit on them
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=66259&highlight=colder+plugs

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=89042&highlight=colder+plugs

basically what happens is they dont hold as much heat when used in high compression,FI motors so that the high heat on the electrode cant pre ignite the fuel causing knock,missfire, detonation ect ect..a must for high performance motors.

on a bolt on motor not overly worth the money, considering you have genuine iridiums worth $220 that have only done about 3000kms that will last 70-100,000kms, and the TR6 (AKA ecotec,sc ecotech and 304 5L plugs)

Ecotec BPR6EFS-151.5
S/C Ecotec BPR6EF-131.3
304 5L/stroker BPR6EF1.0

after hours of searcing i found that they are all basically the same plug incuding the american version/code TR6 all just pregapped to suit particular application

I run SC Ecotec plugs in my gen3 gapped at 1.3mm with no worries
READ THIS
http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system2.htm

[vessm]

on a bolt on motor not overly worth the money, considering you have genuine iridiums worth $220 that have only done about 3000kms that will last 70-100,000kms, and the TR6 (AKA ecotec,sc ecotech and 304 5L plugs)




This is coming from you, but i asked steve if i should change them,
and this is the advice hes givin me so wasnt my choice on what to go for.

yes after you told me i rang super cheap and that have the ones for the 5ls in stock $3.99each or something.


The ones i have prolly are good but this is just something to do coz im bored and wanna chuck something on, something cheap coz got no money.

[WLDLS1]

please dont get me wrong with my opinion.
steve knows his stuff and i have the ut most respect for the guy.:bow:
good guy and a good racer.
i personally dont think the TR6s are all what they are cranked up to be on a N/A motor.
on a NOS motor you cant go wrong.
dont change plugs because you are bored. send the money to me. i will make good use of it.lol. no really what you have in at the moment i think is ok.
save the money for a otr if you dont have one.:thumbsup:

[vessm]

please dont get me wrong with my opinion.
steve knows his stuff and i have the ut most respect for the guy.:bow:
good guy and a good racer.
i personally dont think the TR6s are all what they are cranked up to be on a N/A motor.
on a NOS motor you cant go wrong.
dont change plugs because you are bored. send the money to me. i will make good use of it.lol. no really what you have in at the moment i think is ok.
save the money for a otr if you dont have one.:thumbsup:




haha ive got otr, nah mite get something else.

[BlownVR]

TR6 (AKA ecotec,sc ecotech and 304 5L plugs)

Ecotec BPR6EFS-15 1.5
S/C Ecotec BPR6EF-13 1.3
304 5L/stroker BPR6EF 1.0

after hours of searcing i found that they are all basically the same plug incuding the american version/code TR6 all just pregapped to suit particular application

Does the TR6 have the same electrode and insulator projection as the others?
I have always wondered why people make such a big deal about the TR6, when a BPR6EF seems to be the same thing as you have said. Are the any differences at all?

Code explanation here:

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/ngk_symbol_code.htm

[Oztrack Tuning]

The TR6 i am using are not aussie TR6 they are gapped 0.035.
So far i havent seen a plug that gets as good economy because these are great for lean cruise and good for taking the timing to make good power.

My car didnt want to work a few years ago (spark quench) on Iridiums which lose their tips well before there suggested use by life.

Aussie plugs the same heat range arent going to be as good because they are gapped wider and that is part of the issue.

Every car we have used these 0.035 gapped TR6 have performed well and had good economy.

[BlownVR]

The TR6 i am using are not aussie TR6 they are gapped 0.035.
Aussie plugs the same heat range arent going to be as good because they are gapped wider and that is part of the issue.

But if a BPR6EF was gapped at 0.9mm (0.036") how is it any different to a TR6? This is the question no one seems willing or able to answer. Same heat range, same reach, same thread, same tapered seat, both resistor type. It would be interesting to see the two side by side to check if the projection is the same, as that is the only possible difference I can think of.

[Oztrack Tuning]

Its a matter of whether you can gap plugs effectively to 0.035 when they are supplied with a 1.5mm gap.

Im selling the TR6 for $40 a set plus postage. Its not like they are anything special in terms of price. I dont really want to sell them in big nuimbers i just stock them as a service to the customers we deal with.

[BlownVR]

Its a matter of whether you can gap plugs effectively to 0.035 when they are supplied with a 1.5mm gap.
I'm talking about the BPR6EF supplied with a 1.0mm (.040") gap as mentioned above for the very common Holden 304. I'm not having a go at people using the TR6, it's just that in the past some folks have gone to considerable trouble to obtain them when they could probably pick up a BPR6EF with 1.0mm gap at any auto store. Obviously the TR6 is now easier to get hold of locally so it's not really an issue.


the tr6 seems to sit further up in the head where the iridiums sit a little further in. dont know if it makes a difference.
This would suggest that the insulator projection is different, since they have the same 17.5mm thread reach. The "P" in BPR6EF signifies "projected insulator type" which the iridiums probably are also and perhaps the TR6 is not?
I wonder if the benefits Oztrack mentioned re lean cruise and timing are anything to do with having less projection, or just the smaller gap and colder heat range than stock.

[HYMEY]

I put BPR6EF in my car $32 from Repco gapped at 1.0mm. No problems with them at all. The colder heat range allow the engine to take more timing, consistantly.In conjuction with a 160 stat I could make another 10 kw(with 2 deg more timing) from just those 2 mods alone.

I gave up using iridium plugs on my enduro bike, If it was to rich it would foul to lean it would detonate, The standard style plugs are cheap and do the job, I never felt a difference in performance. Just smoothing running. The heat range is the most important factor. 6 is still a relatively hot plug. 5s are rediculous. I near fell over when I realised the stock plugs were 5s. Definately for an emissions perspective.

[RRossi]

On a Side note



I was given a set of Bosch F5-4 to try out (rrp $89 for a 4 pack)

they are the new range out from bosch with irridium and yttrium called Bosch Fusion with 4 electrodes,due to nature of them being for free, I was like Meh give em a try see if there any good if not wack my ngks back in.

So we took out my standard ngk plat that were 2oookm old and whacked these in WOW I am amazed in the peroformance and after 3 weeks of them in the fuel economy, I have always gone NGK on everything but I will be testing thses plugs for a year and see how they go from the info I have gathhered they will have more perfomance for a longer period of time. so far I am amazed, I could not feel the diffrence when I put the NGKS in 3 months ago.

and ON another NOTE blue gates Racing belts a crap, after 4000k I have massive sliping issues at high reves, stick with a standard bosch belt.


RR

[HYMEY]

Hi RRossi,

Those bosch plugs must be good what heat range are they,

You wont notice any difference in power unless your old plugs were stuffed. The TR6 plugs are colder. They have more insulation, the electrode can cool faster and prevent high plug temps which can induce detonation at high loads. Especially on hotter days. This allows you tune run higher comp and more timing to a certain degree, thats where the power comes from. Thats why turbo engines generally run 7s or 8s and all race engines run colder plugs too. Hotter plugs are no good for those applications and there life span will quickly be shortened. If you go to cold a plug, it wont operate in its correct heat range and they can foul quickly.

[BlownVR]

This may be of interest - I checked the NGK website for recommended plugs for Holden GEN III/IV engines.

Up to VY: PZTR5A15 (platinum TR5 gapped at 1.5mm/.060")
VY II - VE: IZTR5B11 (iridium TR5 gapped at 1.1mm/.044")

Found a similar change in the AC Delco plug listings. Seems they went away from the big gaps with the switch to iridium although last time I looked at the stock plugs in my VE (AC Delco 41-985 iridiums) they appeared to be gapped at about 1.5mm (did not measure though).

[HYMEY]

Yeah, I noticed that the other day. They are a replacement plug from the factory fitted AC delcos. Not really for performance applications but an emissions perspective.

[BlownVR]

I put BPR6EF in my car $32 from Repco gapped at 1.0mm. No problems with them at all. The colder heat range allow the engine to take more timing, consistantly. In conjuction with a 160 stat I could make another 10 kw(with 2 deg more timing) from just those 2 mods alone.
I bought a set of these today as I'm getting a tune done soon and figured that for a measly $32 they won't do any harm, and might just help a bit. Out of the box the gap was less than 1.0mm - more like 0.93-0.95mm/.037-.038".
I compared the BPR6EF to a good close up photo of the TR6 and they appear to have the same amount of insulator/electrode projection. Both are projected electrode type but have less projection than the stock iridium plugs. Both have the same v-groove centre electrode.
So as far as I can determine, for all intents and purposes BPR6EF = TR6.


So far i havent seen a plug that gets as good economy because these are great for lean cruise
Oztrack (or anyone else) have you tried the TR6IX? Not cheap and probably hard to get hold of in Oz, but check out figure 2 in the following link re A/F ratios and centre electrode diameter. I would expect a v-groove 2.5mm centre electrode would be a little better than the standard 2.5mm electrode.

http://www.ngkspark.com.au/pages/bulletins/T01-7.htm

[jai]

Would there be any downside to gapping these plugs down to 1.2mm or 1.0mm if they were suspect for misfiring in a 7.5-8.5PSI fed LS3? I had a bit of a hiccup tonight when the weather was a little cold... car went mint flat out for about a quarter hour, and then hitting 3500RPM (full boost) it would appear to misfire and not rev. Partial throttle appears to rev ok past this RPM... thus it kinda feels like the spark might be getting blown out. Car has done about 50km fine during the day, but this would be its first night outing since being turbo.

My workshop is looking at it but figured someone might have a story to tell!

JK

[macca_779]

Would there be any downside to gapping these plugs down to 1.2mm or 1.0mm if they were suspect for misfiring in a 7.5-8.5PSI fed LS3? I had a bit of a hiccup tonight when the weather was a little cold... car went mint flat out for about a quarter hour, and then hitting 3500RPM (full boost) it would appear to misfire and not rev. Partial throttle appears to rev ok past this RPM... thus it kinda feels like the spark might be getting blown out. Car has done about 50km fine during the day, but this would be its first night outing since being turbo.

My workshop is looking at it but figured someone might have a story to tell!

JK

If its breaking down under boost then yes a smaller gap will help. Alternatively there is a better solution via revised dwell settings and retaining your 1.5mm gap. Any good tuner will be well aware of the overhead capacity of the OEM coil packs and how far you can push them.

[Tre-Cool]

Would there be any downside to gapping these plugs down to 1.2mm or 1.0mm if they were suspect for misfiring in a 7.5-8.5PSI fed LS3? I had a bit of a hiccup tonight when the weather was a little cold... car went mint flat out for about a quarter hour, and then hitting 3500RPM (full boost) it would appear to misfire and not rev. Partial throttle appears to rev ok past this RPM... thus it kinda feels like the spark might be getting blown out. Car has done about 50km fine during the day, but this would be its first night outing since being turbo.

My workshop is looking at it but figured someone might have a story to tell!

JK
too much spark gap. i had the same issuie with my ute. changed plugs to a smaller gap and all fine.

[jai]

I swapped plugs to another new set of these, and again still had misfire issues on boost. The gap was taken down a bit i believe. I then swapped leads to NGKs (unknown age but worked fine on a NA highpower engine) and the car hadnt skipped a beat for about half a week, but again this afternoon the same issue again rose again. I had about 10 minutes of a spirited drive with a mate, after dropping him off about 100m down the road coming on boost again she spluttered. Ive let the car cool down completely since then and the issue still remains. I doubt in this case that it could be coil packs (only 6000km old too). Partial throttle it will rev higher than WOT, however it seems as soon as decent boost is produced (i think maybe 5psi or so) its blupblupblup systematically from the exhaust (ie all cylinders, not one or two by the sound of it)

Now Ive also considered engine temps a possible cause, as after oil hits 125 its been happening, but tonight when I got home i noticed voltage only to be just above 12v at idle - not fantastic. Whereas at a track day at the weekend after a flawless performing run I was just over 14v. Could this indicate perhaps some sort of voltage/ignition power issue?

I would take the plugs out and check them for fouling but no tools handy at the moment :(
Boo hoo

JK

[Tre-Cool]

possible power issue.

less power to fuel pump = less fuel = lean mixture

I'd be getting it checked just incase.

[EXCESSV]

bringing up a slightly older thread....

want to change the plugs on mine and wanted to get it right
so NGK TR6 V-power part#4177 correct?
also what to gap them to for a VE L98 with a 224/228 @ 112 .581 .588 cam with the usual bolt ons, otr, etc pushing 320rwkw(ish)

[SVNLTR]

bringing up a slightly older thread....

want to change the plugs on mine and wanted to get it right
so NGK TR6 V-power part#4177 correct?
also what to gap them to for a VE L98 with a 224/228 @ 112 .581 .588 cam with the usual bolt ons, otr, etc pushing 320rwkw(ish)

go to repco-bursons-auto 1 etc etc

and ask for bpr6efs-

run the gap out of the box for your mods and you will be fine-

[EXCESSV]

go to repco-bursons-auto 1 etc etc

and ask for bpr6efs-

run the gap out of the box for your mods and you will be fine-cheers Nick. much appreciated :goodjob:

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

This may be of interest - I checked the NGK website for recommended plugs for Holden GEN III/IV engines.

Up to VY: PZTR5A15 (platinum TR5 gapped at 1.5mm/.060")
VY II - VE: IZTR5B11 (iridium TR5 gapped at 1.1mm/.044")

Found a similar change in the AC Delco plug listings. Seems they went away from the big gaps with the switch to iridium although last time I looked at the stock plugs in my VE (AC Delco 41-985 iridiums) they appeared to be gapped at about 1.5mm (did not measure though).


my stock ls3 iridiuns were gaped to .9mm

[EXCESSV]

go to repco-bursons-auto 1 etc etc

and ask for bpr6efs-

run the gap out of the box for your mods and you will be fine-just got back from the shop....they are gapped to .8 the normal ones :confused:

NGK recommend IZTR5B11 which are 1.1mm gapped.

so get the BPR6EFS which are the 0.8mm gapped?

[SVNLTR]

just got back from the shop....they are gapped to .8 the normal ones :confused:

NGK recommend IZTR5B11 which are 1.1mm gapped.

so get the BPR6EFS which are the 0.8mm gapped?

Just get them and bang them in or open them up to 1.1 if you are really worried-

[EXCESSV]

Just get them and bang them in or open them up to 1.1 if you are really worried-:lol: ok will just put them in...when engine is cold

[VYSHSV8]

Just get them and bang them in or open them up to 1.1 if you are really worried-

Or Deano could have just bought the correct ones :lol: BPR6EFS-11 or 13 or 15's not just the BPR6EFS but 35though gaps will be ok :):)

[SVNLTR]

Or Deano could have just bought the correct ones :lol: BPR6EFS-11 or 13 or 15's not just the BPR6EFS but 60though gaps will be ok :):)

Drew anything for him will be good..........:)

[VYSHSV8]

Drew anything for him will be good..........:)

:rofl::rofl::rofl: and I editted mt first post Nick I dont know what I was thinking about 60thou gaps on standard 6EFS's I corrected myself and said 35thou whish is basically .8mm which is what he got :lol:

[SVNLTR]

:rofl::rofl::rofl: and I editted mt first post Nick I dont know what I was thinking about 60thou gaps on standard 6EFS's I corrected myself and said 35thou whish is basically .8mm which is what he got :lol:

They say when you start drinking by yourself that is a sign ......................

[VYSHSV8]

They say when you start drinking by yourself that is a sign ......................

Thanks Nick:beer::smilesandbanana:

[VX2VESS]

for an l98 VE the standard plugs have a lot longer reach than BPR6ef, any issues with that?

[VX2VESS]

No one know?

Not sure why you would use a shorter length plug on a non FI motor, the difference is at least 5mm in length shorter on BPR6ef on the L98 OEM plug

Not sure on the LS1's as far as length, but they do run very well on bpr5ef! (i recall when i had LS1 heads off the BPR6ef do protrude into the chamber just.)

L98 using BPR6ef plug spark electrodes maybe out of the combustion chamber and up in the plug thread hole? This would be power reducing to not ignite the fuel as well, the carry over of that plug to a different head design doesn't mean it will work on the L98. Esp if the tip is sitting no where near the chamber.

[vxsslsx]

Can't really answer you question but I brought a set or tr55s from the USA for my ls1 and there meant to be the right length and sit flush with combustion camber were I was reading some plugs sit up in the head more.