Ford v Holden v Honda v Toyota

[falcom]

Car Advice has the latest Comparo against the VE. http://www.caradvice.com.au/

The Commodore was winning these comparisons not long ago and now it is coming last. (Even though they seem to think the Commodore has many short comings,I still think it is the best looking Car)

Lets hope Holden have something up there sleave so it can be back up the top where it belongs.

[Excellent]

I nearly choked when I read rear legroom for the FG scored a '+' result. Did anybody try sitting back there or did they just rely on the spec sheet.

I find caradvice a bit amateurish.

[bwhinnen]

I nearly choked when I read rear legroom for the FG scored a '+' result. Did anybody try sitting back there or did they just rely on the spec sheet.

I find caradvice a bit amateurish.

That is probably one of the most apt statements I have read about them so far.

[FlatfootV8]

Holden Commodore Calais? .......

I wonder if Ford still had the Fairmont Ghia name would they call it Ford Falcon Fairmont Ghia?.........

[ti0350]

I also like how they say it's almost top of the commodore range, but i have feeling all the other cars are top of the range.. They didnt use a Calais V because they said it cost $8000 more but just about everything they bitched about the Calais the V has..
But really when you think about it they are comparing what would have been a Berlina in the VZ range so it's a little lop sided..

[mitchtj]

I also like how they say it's almost top of the commodore range, but i have feeling all the other cars are top of the range.. They didnt use a Calais V because they said it cost $8000 more but just about everything they bitched about the Calais the V has..
But really when you think about it they are comparing what would have been a Berlina in the VZ range so it's a little lop sided..

i like caradvice, but i didn't like the review. They spent so much time complaining about the Calais' lack of leather seats and sat nav, when those were extra's they could have optioned. They had the justification about the 7k more for the Calais V, but the Aurion was 4 grand more then the others, they didn't seem to make a big deal out of that.

The Commodores drivetrain probably isn't the best in the business, but as we all know, the Direct Injection / 6 speed update is going to be a stormer.

Also little attention seemed to be put into handling. I would much prefer a car with a competent chasis, then a sat nav system.

Either way, i guess the order was probably correct in the end. The Aurion has an awesome drivetrain.

[BigFella]

good to see my boring accord V6L doing well.
still think its fab value for $$$ with xenons, nav, roof all standard.


calais v v6 gets up there when u option roof and nav i believe.


a good review to read though!

[mitchtj]

Its amazing how the 'high tech' v6 accord was significantly slower in a straight line then the alloytec engine that constantly gets ragged on.

And that Aurion is extremely quick in a straight line, 14.6 on the quarter, that was the sort of time VT LS1's were doing.

[Ghia351]

Even more impressive is the roadtest results fuel economy figures...
they weren't published in the article but appear in a post below it and I've pasted them here:


Paul Maric Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
MH:

The article was delayed due to formatting issues with the final product. It finally went online at 2AM that following morning when they were resolved.

We do have fuel consumption figures and will post them in the near future - again it was due to formatting issues that they were omitted.

In the interim though, here they are:

Ford Falcon G6E: 9.8L/100km
Holden Commodore Calais V6: 10.9L/100km
Toyota Aurion Presara: 10.5L/100km
Honda Accord V6 Luxury: 10.6L/100km

The fuel consumption figures included highway, city and performance driving.

The Falcon also recorded the best low fuel consumption of 7.9L/100km.

Not bad for a boat anchor...almost 1L/100km less, 2nd quickest to a car far lighter (200Kg), doesn't have cylinder shut down like the Accord....just wish they could build the block in alloy and keep it post 2010...:doh:

[zaim]

The Ford Failcon!

[lowriding]

Always keen to hear opinions but unfortunately caradvice is akin to "web wombat motoring" - no recognized impartial journo therefore no cred . car advice is just a bunch of IT guys !

[iloveholden]

I dont rate car advice at all, very low spec drivers with not much reporting or car related talent.

[planetdavo]

It's interesting all the talk about the Aurion's drivetrain.
I drove one a bit recently, and I felt numerous idle tremours, plus the auto wasn't nearly as intuitive as I've read about.
Maybe it simply wasn't one of the better ones.

[Ghia351]

Always keen to hear opinions but unfortunately caradvice is akin to "web wombat motoring" - no recognized impartial journo therefore no cred . car advice is just a bunch of IT guys !So which writer would make the result more credible? Things like economy/performance or powertrain smoothness are not heavily opinion based. Features/specs/build quality are objective points. Visuals are purely subjective as is comfort. It's a no brainer re the result as the newer cars should normally have a greater advantage and in the Commodore's case the engine goes back to VZ so it's older than the Accord and Toyota V6's. The only problem is that it needs a cost increase to Holden to lift it's economy/switch to DI/A5/A6's to drop fuel use down the track which might hurt profits.

Coming last or first is no big deal in this comparo as they're are all good cars. In fact their final comments on the Calais seem very accurate based on posts here:


Holden fans won’t be happy with this outcome but the fact remains, the Calais is a very good car – if you don’t mind not having the best car available – and it will be the vehicle of choice for the legion of diehard Holden fans who will forgive its shortcomings to maintain their allegiance.

It does the job well, it’s expensive to run, and it’s quickly falling behind its later competitors –that’s the nature of the game- but we doubt Holden will leave it there and perhaps the Series Two car next year will address at least some of our criticisms.

[Wonky]

Series Two? :eek:

[planetdavo]

Series Two? :eek:
They got it a bit wrong with that one!
The VE would be going until 2010 if that happened...:rofl:
Perhaps they meant VF.

[Excellent]

Why is the Alloytec so disappointing overall? I know FWDs have less drivetrain loss but when Holden eventually install the DI engine into Commodore, it will barely be quicker than the current Camry or Falcon?


Even more impressive is the roadtest results fuel economy figures...
they weren't published in the article but appear in a post below it and I've pasted them here:



Not bad for a boat anchor...almost 1L/100km less, 2nd quickest to a car far lighter (200Kg), doesn't have cylinder shut down like the Accord....just wish they could build the block in alloy and keep it post 2010...:doh:

Honda's cylinder deactivation technology just seems like marketing hooplah.

[Marco]

"From the outset Accord is an attractive car, far more handsome than the predecessor, and possibly the most attractive in the group"

I can only assume they didn't wander round the back of the Accord at any stage?

[Holden Man]

"From the outset Accord is an attractive car, far more handsome than the predecessor, and possibly the most attractive in the group"

I can only assume they didn't wander round the back of the Accord at any stage?

Maybe they didn't look at any of it / what a mish mash of lines the Accord is. I'm surprised to see Toyota have kicked Honda over who makes the better V6.

I still feel the Accord and Aurion are both half a size down compared to the Commy / Falc which doesn't seem to get a mention by the media.

Well done to the Falcon for showing the japs how it's done.

[jey16]

atleast they got the verdict right on the interiors....after being in both a Calais and a G6E, you cant even compare them......G6E is so much better in that regard

hopefully Holden fix that up for the VF

[Marco]

The Calais interior is bad because it doesn't look upmarket enough, but the G6E interior looks bad because it's a tryhard sort of upmarket (painting some buttons silver does not make something upmarket guys). I don't really like either, but I'd take the Calais.

[paulvdb]

Why is the Alloytec so disappointing overall? I know FWDs have less drivetrain loss but when Holden eventually install the DI engine into Commodore, it will barely be quicker than the current Camry or Falcon?

I think the key issue is Torque. All these brands make a big deal about power (particular Toyota's killerwasps) but that really means bugger all. The Holden could have 1000kw at 20,000rpm and it wouldn't necessarily be any quicker if there's no torque involved. The Alloytech really doesn't have enough torque at low revs for the size of car it's pulling. This engine can supposedly be scaled to larger sizes, and should have. A 4L version would probably have used less fuel than the 3.6 and given better performance. As noted by Lutzy re the Camaro the 4cyl isn't necessarily giving a lot better economy either - it's about matching the torque to the weight of the vehicle. I think that the DI version will have substantially better economy.

Re styling - I'm stunned that these guys like the over-the-top Honda styling but then pick on the Holden external styling which is it's best feature. They also do not understand that Holden deliberately made the Calais interior understated. We don't all want 1 button per function. I like a car that has only as many buttons as you REALLY need. You should be driving your car, not playing with it.

[Excellent]

Well done to the Falcon for showing the japs how it's done.

Interesting that the female tester didn't choose the Falcon. She went for the Honda (surprise, surprise) because she felt it was easier to drive. I don't think she could reason that her choice was more to do with 'image'. :)

Seriously, not many women would consider a Falcon or Commodore, no matter how good, for the same reasons - image. Both companies are not winning over the females whereas Honda and Toyota have no issues attracting the female gender to their cars.

[GODSMACK]

Maybe they didn't look at any of it / what a mish mash of lines the Accord is. I'm surprised to see Toyota have kicked Honda over who makes the better V6.

I still feel the Accord and Aurion are both half a size down compared to the Commy / Falc which doesn't seem to get a mention by the media.

Well done to the Falcon for showing the japs how it's done. I must be the only person on this forum who thinks the new Accords are a good looking car... I dont mind them one little bit..

[BigFella]

I must be the only person on this forum who thinks the new Accords are a good looking car... I dont mind them one little bit..

lol u know i like it too!

looks similar to a 5 series beemer

[GODSMACK]

lol u know i like it too!

looks similar to a 5 series beemer They do dont they... I rate Honda's quite highly when it comes to reliability, Mrs car has done just over 40k, serviced every 10K, doesnt miss a beat... Most will say that Honda's are expensive to service, but im lucky enough to have a mechanic in the family, so it doesnt cost me much at all..

I like the look of the wagon too... http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/2008-honda-accord-euro.htm

[Marco]

It's a good looking car, until you get to the rear! What the hell went on there? It's nice until you get to the back doors, then it looks like the original designer had to go home early and gave it to the work experience kid to finish.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

The Commodores drivetrain probably isn't the best in the business, but as we all know, the Direct Injection / 6 speed update is going to be a stormer.
.

When are you goings getting direct injection? Is it for the V6 & V8? Because I just posted a bit earlier asking for some feedback FG XR8 ute vs VE SS Ute comparison as I was looking at one of these in the next 12 months. As I was leaning towards auto because of the driving I do and Fords ZF Six speed is top of the tree and that was one thing swaying in Fords faver. But a Holden six speed update could help and there. There is plenty I like about the Holden too not least of of all the look of the SS ute without mud spats. Tell me more about this direct injection/6 speed update for the Holden.:)


I think the key issue is Torque. All these brands make a big deal about power (particular Toyota's killerwasps) but that really means bugger all. The Holden could have 1000kw at 20,000rpm and it wouldn't necessarily be any quicker if there's no torque involved. The Alloytech really doesn't have enough torque at low revs for the size of car it's pulling. This engine can supposedly be scaled to larger sizes, and should have. A 4L version would probably have used less fuel than the 3.6 and given better performance. As noted by Lutzy re the Camaro the 4cyl isn't necessarily giving a lot better economy either - it's about matching the torque to the weight of the vehicle. I think that the DI version will have substantially better economy.

.

Torque is where its at and unless you been living under a rock for ever nothing beats the inline 6 in the Falcon. That's why if I was ever to buy an XR6T or another XR6 it would be before Ford go to the V6 not enough torque :bawl: in comparision to the I6. Which I think happens in about 2 years. By the why guy's im not on here to knock anybodys car - im just agreeing with the above poster marketing = KW's for $$$ Toyota or who ever as non car enthusiasts unlike us dont really understand NM.

[Excellent]

It's a good looking car, until you get to the rear! What the hell went on there? It's nice until you get to the back doors, then it looks like the original designer had to go home early and gave it to the work experience kid to finish.

I think its good looking in a conservative way. Same with the Aurion. Nothing cutting edge, but great attention to detail. The way the doors close is like chalk and cheese between the FWD and RWD cars and fit/finish of the interior and exterior panels give the edge to the Japanese makes.

[FlatfootV8]

Don't even bother about the TRD Aurion it was the biggest pile of dog dung to drive...
It can't get the power to the wheels properly and torque steers like a drunk horse... Its a car that seriously needs all wheel drive.....