HQ Rebuild opinions...

[chillicatqld]

hi all

Some feedback on what I am thinking of doing regarding a build I am thinking about undertaking.

Background:
My old man has passed on and I now am in possesion of his 1973 253 Kingswood sedan (was 3 on tree - now M20 - owned since 1 year old) - I have had it off road for 7 years now. The car is in need of major panel restoration, rust in all usual places (has been pranged, rolled and fixed in its early years, and sprayed about 3 times now). And this time I want to do it right so it will last. There are two really good restoration people here on the Gold Coast, one has quoted approx. 11 grand plus sandblasting/stripping - the other $24K (+gst) - showroom car he is talking. (and my thoughts were to turn it into a "fake" SS if I was going to do this option)

Now this is alot of money to have no guarantee that no rust will ever come back thru again... and I feel that it most likely would and I would be repairing small things down the line.

An opportunity has arisen to purchase a 1972 Kingswood sedan (202 auto) that is in almost immaculate original condition. (Paintwork is exact colour option as the old mans). It is the straightest HQ you could imagine - never pranged - original paint all over, just a couple of minor "trolley" dings. Has not been on the road for 14 years and has not been wet in that time.
Interior - one small tear on doorskin. Boot: absolutely factory new. The body lines are flawless. The list goes on...

Here is my idea:
Take the old cars running gear (V8, manual gearbox, diff etc) and transplant to the donor vehicle (the 202). Put the bucket seats in from the old rusty one etc, ID tags and chassis rail (if legal??) and end up with a car that is almost "original".
The paintowork you could get the few minor dings pressed out, stone chips blended and the clearcoat the whole car for a almost flawless original car.

Now to cost:
1) New car he wants $8500 for... I think I can get him to $7000ish.
2) Rebuild my 253 V8 to mild specs for around $5K
I wish I was more mechanical and had the space to do the conversion myself, so saving that $5K could be saved. But that is not possible. Unless someone knows someone on the Gold Coast that could do it at a more reasonable price...let me know.
3) rough quote from mechanic to do all the swapping of running gear (around $5K) including: new bushes, suspension etc.
4)insidentals: new radiator, tyres, new exhaust - allow $2500

So the build would be around $20K (with some money to come from selling of 202 motor, old HQ parts etc - maybe get 2K back).

Question time: who thinks this is a good idea or to over the top to end up with a 253 HQ is almost showroom condition? (But that would have sentimental value of "being" my old mans car... with a new body - a tribute car you could say).
Now I would never sell this car, so I am not thinking of making $ on it. And, with the new body, and kept only as a weekend no rain car, this car will last for another 30 years at least... hand it onto my kids later.

Sorry for long winded post - but I am really hanging on some input as to whether to go ahead and buy the ol 202 or whether to can the whole affair and scrap the old mans car. (it would be a sad day)

[WhiteLion]

Chilli,
I think you already know that you're not going to be making money on this.

So do your sums, if you can afford it, follow your heart.

Good luck

Steve

[chillicatqld]

here is a pic of it about 10 years ago, and the condition I would restore it back to... but better!
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/chillicatqld/HQ253.jpg

[Desertws6]

Chilli,

After doing restoration work myself. There are certain things that do arise during the process that you have not already accounted for.
1. Rear End + new U joints
2. Transmission
3. Body mounts
4. Electrical wiring harnesses as needed
5. Misc. Nuts & Bolts
6. Rechroming of font and rear bars if necessary.
7. Refinishing of trim and emblems
8. Brake components
9. Steering components

All this stuff adds up there mate. Been there done that.

Sounds like a good plan, but be prepared for unexpected costs.

Australian LS1 and Holden Forums - View Single Post - Before & After (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1285748&postcount=26)

Cheers,
Steve

[chillicatqld]

Thanks for your reply Arizona... and I luv ya rebuild. Yours looks like brand new... awesome work.
I realise there will be some sundries in the build... but most are covered. The old diff from my donor V8, the old M20 gearbox from my old V8, all electricals are already in place and in as new condition. All chrome is perfect (except one minor press in - that could be "pulled" out). Steering drives like new on the new body (and I have power steering to transfer off the old V8).
So all in all I am not expecting any "major" surprises!!

[JT]

would make more sense to buy the 202 & transpose the v8 running gear however you can't legally change ID tags.
Good luck with which ever way you choose to go

[Gee]

Note, I am the wrong person to comment on this as I have three HQ's and have had others besides. I love 'em.

Only very few people get lucky with old cars in terms of holding or increasing value. So it is never a good idea to spend money on an old car. Just like its not a good idea to spend it on a new one I guess - comfort, safety, image etc. aside. Sorry for being so serious.

Sounds like your dad's car is a bit of a mess? But is it really? Where's the rust?

Either way, my view - don't go pulling chassis rails and ID tags off either car. Sure you'll probably get it through rego but every year people get better at id`ing these things, chances are it will be obvious to many. You will then reduce (or kill) the value of whichever car you keep. More importantly perhaps, in the end you'll know its 'not quite' your old mans car. Fix his car or move onto the new one and make it (I think the word you used is) a 'tribute'.

(Having said that if are not shy of what sounds a major job - actually isn't too traumatic - one of the best things you can do to an HQ? Stick a set of HZ rails in it and then store your original rails for a rainy day. Anyway, I digress.)

If you decide on the new one, cut up, tear down and clearly label and store everything off the old mans car for spares. Except the drivetrain which I think you can consign to ebay or a bin. I mean no offense, but if you're going to the trouble of a transplant I wouldn't waste the effort on dropping in a 253. But then I can see why you might want to the same donk as the old man (and you'll have everything just sitting there I guess).

Keeping the engine original to its car is a good idea though, then in a couple of years, maybe it can swallow whatever V8 you really want. If you decided on the new car and are intent on having the 253 at least strip down and store the 202 block and head assuming they are original.

Keeping the whole Kingswood look is not only IMO cool, a little more original and makes for a sweet sleeper. Sorry, but why pretend its an SS?

[chillicatqld]

Thanks for the post Gee.
Some valid points there... and definately thinking about them all.

The rust in my car is:
- Both plenims - rooted,
- one sill already been replaced, the other needs replacing
- both roof gutters have rust
- bottom of both front guards
- need new front drivers door - others are generally good.
- and needs to get the fender "lines" put back in (front and back) - they have "disasappeared" over the years
- all seats reupholstered, roof lining, door skins, dash is great!!

All in all, I know it is do-able, but I don't have the space to strip down here at home. Well I do, but the VYSS will have to live outside! And all my spare time for the next year or two is set here at home renovating.

But thanks heaps for the valid points... the part of it not being "the old man's car in the end" is still the major one. That and I think that the old girl is a "guiding light". Our family (when I was young) survived two major near death incidents in that car. One was a major roll-over on a steep country hill when a tyre blew on a trailor, the other when we were stuck and trapped driving thru the Grampians range in Victoria when it was fully ablaze in a major bushfire...

so hard what to do.

[james2]

Back to the "10 year" pic would be a great start.:)

[chillicatqld]

Thanks for the input guys.
It is a tough one... that I have spent more than enough time thinking about.
I would really love to have a go at rebuilding the original myself... and I may have to sacrifice the VY to outside and just keep the old girl in my garage until that time comes.
It is currently in a mates shed... but has to move soon :(

Hey Gee... what did you mean by "one of the best things you can do to an HQ? Stick a set of HZ rails in it and then store your original rails for a rainy day. Anyway, I digress.)"... just wondering?

[Gee]

Changing to the chassis rails from an HZ provide for a superior handling car.

Essentially a revision of the location of the control arm, the HZ rails provide for a very nice handling car - particularly it must be said in comparison to a Q :lmao:

Still you can get an HQ to handle well enough - but you might say never as well as an HZ chassis car.

This was marketed as "RTS" (radial tuned suspension) which you have seen badges for on HZ cars and perhaps even early Commodores. One of Haenenberger's (sp?) earlier achievements I think?

... but you might wish to keep your original rails for refit / sale purposes

[1340LOCO]

Do yourself a favour and rebuild the original one to original condition. There are far to many 4 door monaro and ss look-a-likes already. Everyone seems to go down that path and very few get put back to be the way they were. Ss's and monaro's are exactly that and a kingswood will always be a kingswood and they look great that way in my opinion.

Keep it original as that is how your father bought it and would have loved it for years. Good luck with your project.

[chillicatqld]

Alright, well my mind is back on this tangent again and I am at a two road decision here.
I either do the old man's car up or I buy a HQ Coupe... the "if" here is what sort of money I would need to spend to buy a good original V8 HQ Coupe.. and I am pretty sure that is about $40K.

My other thought have been to fix up the 4-door and just be happy with a nice looking cruiser... sure its not a pedigree - but it could still turn heads and be nice to drive on weekends.

What are peoples thoughts on maybe doing something like this to it?
Maybe debadge it on the rear - keep the V8 badge - and the front grille badge - paint the roof same as body colour (Monterey green) which is original - and put in guard flutes (keep them body colour not black though)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/chillicatqld/Holdenrepaint-1.jpg

PS: Yes, I know I have other threads asking opinions on buying other HQ's - but at least now I am down to two decisions... rebuild or buy a HQ Coupe.

[BLQWN]

An original straight Q sedan turns my head just as much as a tarted up coupe these days.
Get the best body you can to start with - it can save you thousands on panel work, a rolled body with rusty gutters sounds like trouble to me.
Do as much as you can before p and p to get the best bumpers lined up, doors, trim etc and cruise around and use the thing!, stick the 253 in one weekend even - too many end up pulled apart as projects in peoples sheds (like mine did for 12 years) before you get the time, money, space, to build them.
PM me if you need any help, cheers Chris

[chillicatqld]

Thanks BLQWN.... mate I have "creamed" myself over that coupe of yours for a long time.. so some input from you is well worthy. Is that yours on Australian Muscle Cars at the moment?
The roll factor is no worries - the car still lines up real nice... and the gutters aren't too nasty (mostly surface rust)... its the plenims that are worst and one sill. A couple of new doors and guards and it will save alot of rust work. Bumpers are about 90-95% good.

[Mikey]

Ah Monterey Green! Same colour as my 74 Prem. I think you heart is right, but why must you rebuild it too such high specs? You already know that it has had a hard life, and it still may not last the distance which will will only annoy you more. Why not clean it up and just drive and enjoy it for what it is worth when you feel like it.

I think that it maybe better to build up somebody else's memories as there is much less emotion involved and you will make better decisions. Keep the old mans as a good memory and enjoy it for what it is.

Is that a vinyl roof is it just white. If it is vinyl and it is in good nick, don't change it as this look was IMO one of the best eras for personalising every day cars. It is what set them apart from the other taxis going around at that time and when you think about it, with nearly half a million of em built back then, how many different model and colour combos were around.

Also I don't think the "gangster look" (tinted windows, over dumping every corner, 15" or even 16" wheels etc) works very well for anything from this era either. It appears to work better from VN onwards.

The humble "HQ" one of the most loved cars to come out of Australia.

[Pickles]

Not worth doing, IMHO.
I had the same opportunity to do the same thing with my mother's car, when she passed away. I wanted to keep it, relive all the memories etc etc---then I worked out how it was going to cost, to do it right, & I sold the car--AND, I still have all my happy memories of my mum & her car.
In your case, & please, I'm not being rude, just giving my opinion, the car you speak of was nothing special when it was new-just an ordinary family car--not a 350 Monaro, Falcon GT etc, but just an ordinary HQ that's already been rolled, has some rust etc etc--and you're talking about making it into a fake SS.
I understand thet you're not concerned about values, because of the "personal" nature of the car, & if you're determined to restore it, then IMHO the only way to do it, would be to restore it to EXACTLY the way it was on the showroom floor. That way, you would have THE CAR, that your dad bought all those years ago.
But, I definitely wouldn't do it.
Cheers, Pickles

[chillicatqld]

Sorry guys I have confused the issue a little....

I am NOT now going to spend $24K on the body restore - or make it into a fake SS.
My idea now is to restore it to its former glory (albeit maybe minus the white painted roof)... and also I have found someone with very reputable work that can do it all for around the 10K mark.

My other thought is to attempt the body work myself and have the same above mentioned guy lay the paint. Sure it may take alot longer to do, but would be a fun learning experience... I just have to learn how to Mig Weld.

Thanks for all replies... it all helps with the working out in my mind. The SS option has been shot down and rightly so I think.

[vz6.0]

if your fathers owned it for a very long time, it has sentimental value that cant be measured against someones elses coupe or ss clone.

Might I suggest repairing to original specs but with an upgraded driveline?

Dont spend so much money that it becomes a massive white elephant sitting in your shed, just a nice cleanup and repair, then just drive it, just as it did while your father owned it.

I just started on my fathers first car, a 1964 eh holden, I remember getting driven to school in that car, if it comes to the crunch, ill keep that and sell my monaro.

Budget a few dollars, take your time, and dont overspend and regret it, or get the shits and sell it for (god forbid, a late model commodore, with no personality, no style and no "memories")

(no offence intended to commo's, I own 4 lol, but id rather drive my hj or eh :))

[BLQWN]

Is that yours on Australian Muscle Cars at the moment?


Yep, and E bay...you could always buy mine:1peek: