Self Leveling Suspension

[goldduster360]

I own a 2006 Pontiac GTO and was wondering why it and the Monaro have not been offered with self leveling suspension like the Commodore VZ Senator. I assume it's more of a marketing than an engineering decision.

[XLR8 V8]

That would be because the Monaro was part of the Sports model range, whereas the Senator is in the Luxury range

[macca_779]

I own a 2006 Pontiac GTO and was wondering why it and the Monaro have not been offered with self leveling suspension like the Commodore VZ Senator. I assume it's more of a marketing than an engineering decision.

Because a Senator is a higher end model and thus gets more toys.

[seldo]

Absolutely no reason why it can't be retro-fitted though. After all - it's just a little compressor, some pump-up shocks, and a height sensor. I have them sitting at pasture on my car since I now run Koni yellows

[macca_779]

Absolutely no reason why it can't be retro-fitted though. After all - it's just a little compressor, some pump-up shocks, and a height sensor. I have them sitting at pasture on my car since I now run Koni yellows

I too will be removing mine to fit Tein Adjustables.

[macca33]

I was going to, but it is too good a thing for me with the towing that I do. I reckon it is a great system - AND - can be modified very easily, to a much less lofty ride height, if you know what you are doing...:evil:

Cheers,

Macca

[SIG-054]

Yep, and ill be modding mine when i get the time. :)

[goldduster360]

Thanx for the replies mates. Any suggestions on where to get new air shocks for my ride? Manually adjustable is all I need.

I tried surfing the Australia Monroe site, they only list gas riser shocks, not sure exactly how they work, and they only list up to 2002 model year, not sure if that matters.

Over here we have the Monroe MA825, listed for the Cadillac Catera( the opel based car sold in the U.S. from 97-2000). It's dimensions are slightly different than the GTO's but will bolt up and should work ok as Catera owners are fitting them with GTO shocks which are slightly longer than the Catara's.

I was hoping to get an air shock that was engineered specifically for the VZ suspension, I suspect the generic Monroe air shock is not valved too aggresively and will make the car a little wallowy.

[macca33]

You could try Pedders Suspension maybe. I believe that they do operate in the US - they are sponsors on ls1gto.com, etc...

Cheers,

Macca

[goldduster360]

Thank you Macca, to the best of my knowledge Pedders USA does not offer air shocks for VZ's.

They market allot of high end suspension bits like the springs, coil over front struts, adjustable rear shocks(non air), camber kits, low deflection bushings, etc.

It appears the consensus on the LS2 board in the states is air bags are the way to go, yet there is not an airbag specifically engineered for the GTO coil that I have found over here. They are stuffing aftermarket style Mazda MPV bags sideways under their springs. Some require cutting up the snubbers too, looks like a mickey mouse way to add some load capacity or reduce rear squat.

There is one guy that is convinced the VZ suspension was never designed for an air shock and claims the lower control arms will break if I install them. He is a pedders sponser on that site too. Seemed like BS, the reason I took a walkabout over to this site.

I must say I am impressed with you guys over here, I posted last night and like 6 responses in a matter of hours. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge on this site that should be tapped on from over here.

Thanx again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macca, it looks like the Monroe Gas Riser is an air shock, they show an MGR-118 for VX and VXII Calais sedans. Would this work on the Monaro body? If it does, I think I found a good gas charged air shock for my VZGTO. I have not been able to find one catalogued for any VZ Sedan.

Pedders USA for sure does not list an air shock.

[planetdavo]

Holden offer a factory accessory air shock kit to suit Commodore sedans of the same era, which use for all intents and purposes exactly the same rear suspension. No kit was offered for Monaro simply because hardly anyone tows much with them, and hardly anyone has the back seat and the boot (trunk) full very often, so there is very little market for them!
The VX Monroe air shocks will fit straight in to yours.

[macca33]

What Davo said...:teach:

Good luck with it goldduster360.

Cheers

[seldo]

It also depends on what is the object of the exercise. Is it to raise the back, prevent it drooping under load, improve handling etc etc. There's different solutions to each.

[goldduster360]

Holden offer a factory accessory air shock kit to suit Commodore sedans of the same era, which use for all intents and purposes exactly the same rear suspension. No kit was offered for Monaro simply because hardly anyone tows much with them, and hardly anyone has the back seat and the boot (trunk) full very often, so there is very little market for them!
The VX Monroe air shocks will fit straight in to yours.

Thank you Planet Davo, very much appreciated.


It also depends on what is the object of the exercise. Is it to raise the back, prevent it drooping under load, improve handling etc etc. There's different solutions to each.

Seldo, I was more interested in decreasing tire wear, car is driven pretty tame most of the tame so I suppose the focus is minimizing squat and perhaps slightly raising the vehicle to make the tires ride more on the center than the inner edges. Air shocks seem like the simplest fix. I do like the adjustable height springs too but air shocks have worked well for me in the past. Car spends allot of time in traffic taking 1 mile to get up to 40mph, seems like the car is always accelarating, although slowly due to traffic with constant load on the rear springs and the resultant squat. If this car spent vast stretches at constant speed I bet the inner tire wear would be much less. This car feels like it's sprung soft enough that air shocks would not be too rowdy.

It absolutely baffles me how nobody directly catalogues the air shocks for the Monaro line. I do understand and agree with the explanation that it's not as likely to require them due to it's mission in life. But almost every car built in the 70's through the 90's could be fitted over here. Even a Camaro has them listed and they barely have room for two people and a spare tire!

Thanx again Seldo, Macco and Davo and everyone else who was kind enough to chime in. You guys helped solve what seems to be a pretty big mystery to the rest of us over here in the states when it comes to air shocks on the GTO. Now I just need to figure out how to get my hands on a set over here. I am guessing Monroe markets the gas riser over here, maybe under a different name or perhaps there is an Australian part number crossover.

You guys are awesome, a ton of knowledge over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It also depends on what is the object of the exercise. Is it to raise the back, prevent it drooping under load, improve handling etc etc. There's different solutions to each.

Seldo, I was more interested in decreasing tire wear, car is driven pretty tame most of the tame so I suppose the focus is minimizing squat and perhaps slightly raising the vehicle to make the tires ride more on the center than the inner edges. Air shocks seem like the simplest fix. I do like the adjustable height springs too but air shocks have worked well for me in the past. Car spends allot of time in traffic taking 1 mile to get up to 40mph, seems like the car is always accelarating, although slowly due to traffic with constant load on the rear springs and the resultant squat. If this car spent vast stretches at constant speed I bet the inner tire wear would be much less. This car feels like it's sprung soft enough that air shocks would not be too rowdy.

It absolutely baffles me how nobody directly catalogues the air shocks for the Monaro line. I do understand and agree with the explanation that it's not as likely to require them due to it's mission in life. But almost every car built in the 70's through the 90's could be fitted over here. Even a Camaro has them listed and they barely have room for two people and a spare tire!

Thanx again Seldo, Macca and Davo and everyone else who was kind enough to chime in. You guys helped solve what seems to be a pretty big mystery to the rest of us over here in the states when it comes to air shocks on the GTO. Now I just need to figure out how to get my hands on a set over here. I am guessing Monroe markets the gas riser over here, maybe under a different name or perhaps there is an Australian part number crossover.

You guys are awesome, a ton of knowledge over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[exploder]

Air shocks for a Commodore are plumbed to a single valve. Which bites. As you put weight on one corner it shifts some air to the opposite and makes the lean a bit more . Plus factory air shocks are longer than FE2 so you lose what handling benefits FE2 had.

Personally I dont think air shocks will remedy tyre wear problems, sounds more like a camber kit would be in order.

I used to tow with my SS wagon and used airbags that went inside the coils as it didnt compromise unloaded handling, but again i doubt this will fix tyre wear.

http://www.airbagman.com.au/

There will be cutting of bump stops and drilling involved.

[seldo]

Seldo, I was more interested in decreasing tire wear, car is driven pretty tame most of the tame so I suppose the focus is minimizing squat and perhaps slightly raising the vehicle to make the tires ride more on the center than the inner edges. Air shocks seem like the simplest fix. ......If that's the case, I'd just be fitting some Bilstein or other gas-pressure shock. They will raise it about half an inch and are a much better shock and will improve the handling as well, although just fitting them to the rear will tend to make it understeer (push) a little less.

[goldduster360]

Air shocks for a Commodore are plumbed to a single valve. Which bites. As you put weight on one corner it shifts some air to the opposite and makes the lean a bit more . Plus factory air shocks are longer than FE2 so you lose what handling benefits FE2 had.

Personally I dont think air shocks will remedy tyre wear problems, sounds more like a camber kit would be in order.

I used to tow with my SS wagon and used airbags that went inside the coils as it didnt compromise unloaded handling, but again i doubt this will fix tyre wear.

http://www.airbagman.com.au/

There will be cutting of bump stops and drilling involved.

Hi, thanx for the input. Air bags seem to be a popular choice in the states as well. However, if the air bags are connected together like air shocks, the most common method from what I have read, would they contribute to the same leaning problem as air shocks connected in the same manor?

I suppose with either set up you would want to run a separate shrader for each unit, then you could also compensate for spring tolerances from side to side?

Also, on the FE2 shocks, the length difference of shock is due to that suspensions' slightly taller springs. Following that, if the shock is progressively valved it is designed to be in it's sweet spot in a different position than when it's installed on the lower Monaro? I wonder if all shocks are progressively valved?

Have you done the camber kit in the rear?


If that's the case, I'd just be fitting some Bilstein or other gas-pressure shock. They will raise it about half an inch and are a much better shock and will improve the handling as well, although just fitting them to the rear will tend to make it understeer (push) a little less.

So you think an aggressive gas shock would limit acceleration squat enough to actually decrease tire wear? I suppose further reducing sway in the corners would cut down on the camber wear a bit too. I discussed this with a couple gear heads last week and they were of the same mindset, seems plausible. Are the stockers even gas charged?

There seems to be quite a few options other than shocks for the tire wear problem, all claim to reduce negative camber with either an adjustable camber kit(eccentric bolts?), adjustable coil springs and I think the other was higher durometer bushings for the control arms to possibly reduce negative camber from deflection.

This inside tire wear seems to be a universal thing on IRS cars. I took a glance at my Honda Odyssey tires this week with only 3,000 miles on them and was amazed at how much the insides of the rear non-driven tires were worn compared to the fronts. The odyssey is a front driver but it has IRS also. I also surfed a couple of Corvette sites to find some owners complaining of the inside rear tire wear.

[exploder]

Hi, thanx for the input. Air bags seem to be a popular choice in the states as well. However, if the air bags are connected together like air shocks, the most common method from what I have read, would they contribute to the same leaning problem as air shocks connected in the same manor?

I suppose with either set up you would want to run a separate shrader for each unit, then you could also compensate for spring tolerances from side to side?

Also, on the FE2 shocks, the length difference of shock is due to that suspensions' slightly taller springs. Following that, if the shock is progressively valved it is designed to be in it's sweet spot in a different position than when it's installed on the lower Monaro? I wonder if all shocks are progressively valved?

Have you done the camber kit in the rear?



The bags I used where separately valved, so I have no reference on what would happen.

Spring length yes FE2 is slighty shorter than standard, and the factory air shock are designed for standard height springs.
No idea on the shocks and valving, although i just lowered my current car and that was the info i got, replace the shocks with ones that will work in the correct range.

Camber kit no, and later model Commodores and Wagons its less common to need them as there is an extra something in the rear to help stop the wear.
My Wagon wore the inside edges of the rear tyres faster than the outside its a common issue with trailing arm independent rear suspension. Go have a look at late model BMW same thing happens.