Want an Australian, RWD Falcon? Get it while you can!

[Dacious]

Looks like the next 'Falcon' may be front-wheel drive, and maybe not even made in Oz.

Ford Boss Allan Mullaly addressing Australian journos (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F75E5B1CCBADA9DCCA2574B100215D11)


Ford is committed to developing one global platform for its large sedans, such as the Falcon in Australia and the Taurus in the US, and earlier this year global product chief Derrick Kuzak confirmed that a RWD large-car development plan was underway.

However, Mr Mulally yesterday revealed that the RWD program was in doubt when he was asked whether fuel economy concerns could see it be replaced with a front-drive or all-wheel drive architecture.

“We haven’t decided that yet, but you are absolutely touching on the essence of it,” he said.

“Rear-wheel drive has some unique capabilities, but it will be yet to be determined whether we keep our unique rear-wheel drive or whether the bigger sedans will need to (be) all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive.”

After answering a series of questions about whether future Falcons would be RWD, Mr Mulally remarked: “You guys are obsessed with this front and rear-wheel drive.”

Then he added: “The front-wheel drive and all-wheel drives are pretty spectacular and they are going to continue to get better.”

If they've floated it in the current nervous-nellie environment, it's all over bar the shouting. They're getting us ready for the drop. No wonder Osborn quit. He doesn't want to be burnt in effigy as the Falcon killer. This is a very bad day for Australian car manufacture.

[OPPYLOCK]

AWD F6 with 6sp manual sounds ok to me.
Would be a shame to lose an Australian built RWD though.

[SS Enforcer]

What we are going to get is FWD V6 and V8's for the Ford and I can almost hear the GM execs celebrating now. Just have a look at the daily driver offerings from Ford in the US.

cheers

[Road Warrior]

Can't see it happening myself. They will need a new RWD car to replace that Crown Victoria POS with, and they've been talking about having a common RWD platform for ages.

Then again, Detroit has been trying to kill off local manufacturing of Fords here for ages.

Then again, I remember all the "omg shock horror" when Wheels published details in 1993 of the 1997 Commodore, of which one of the design proposals was for FWD. I think I may still have that magazine around some place.

Of course, we all know that the VT was RWD and stayed that way...funny how journos love to whipp up a controversy.

[Evman]

Can't see it happening myself. They will need a new RWD car to replace that Crown Victoria POS with, and they've been talking about having a common RWD platform for ages.

Then again, Detroit has been trying to kill off local manufacturing of Fords here for ages.

Then again, I remember all the "omg shock horror" when Wheels published details in 1993 of the 1997 Commodore, of which one of the design proposals was for FWD. I think I may still have that magazine around some place.

Of course, we all know that the VT was RWD and stayed that way...funny how journos love to whipp up a controversy.

That's because controversy sells magazines :jester:

[planetdavo]

It's a good way to test the passion in the marketplace for the existing product, without commissioning expensive "clinics".
Just drop a rumour or two, and listen up...

[sh|tbmxrider]

If FoMoCo drop the Local-built RWD idea, what incentive for GMH to continue on with it?

[iCat]

i've blue blood, but i'd drop ford if they ceased production of rwd. i've driven front wheel drive a fair bit in the past, and i just find it odd, i don't know what it is but i really don't like it.

[aj1au]

If FoMoCo drop the Local-built RWD idea, what incentive for GMH to continue on with it?

close to 100% market share - they would have a competitive advantage handed to them on a plate. They would be insane to through that away.

[kayman]

If FoMoCo drop the Local-built RWD idea, what incentive for GMH to continue on with it?

more sales?

depends on which way the market leans i suppose!

[M&Ms]

Well this article doesn't say anything about FWD Falcons, but does allude to shared components with the Taurus and Mustang (which is RWD for those that didn't know). It looks like Ford Australia will be doing what Holden did with the VE. Now what's wrong with that? As long as Australian's have input into this car (and it remains RWD), then I see no problem, especially if FoMoCo worldwide becomes a more efficient company in the process.

Drive Article (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=56457&s_rid=smh:ClassiePuff)

P.S. I think that green Focus looks HOT!!!!!!

[VYBerlinaV8]

So... what happened the other times the yanks got their way? We got the Tauras (:spew:) and we got the AU Falcon (:spew:) because they thought we didn't know what we wanted. :goodjob:

The Ford is heavy already - adding another 100-150kg for 4wd will make it slower and use even more juice. Making it front wheel drive will be the end of it.

What happened to the days of having 2 six cylinder engines? Big 6 for those who wanted to tow and go a bit quicker, small 6 for the cheap. Perhaps a return to that idea...?

[Dacious]

The problem I see is twofold: one, they didn't alter the hardpoints in the current Falcon (bits like where the engines mount to, and the suspension swings from - changing these is big $$$, amounts to a new chassis). They have already said they aren't going to on Huntsman, the next version.

Reports from the US indicate Ford Oz is playing a reduced role in development of the GRWD chassis - they make nearly ten times as many Mustangs as Falcons and it's one of the few 'hits' Ford US has so there's $$$$ in it. The next Mustang revision, due 2010 has already been confirmed as a minor update. That chassis is too small and narrow for a Falcon, it's less than Camaro sized.

Ford, like GM, already announced several planned vehicles like a large Lincoln (Ford's version of a Cadillac) and Mercury (Buick) are staying FWD, and they are indicating they are to reduce or even eliminate V8s from cars in favour of 'Ecoboost' turbo fours and sixes. Plus they are reducing the US workforce, not by hundreds but tens of thousands and closing dozens of plants, from engine-bodywork-components.

That all increases the liklihood of a FWD global platform. If that happens, like the V6 plant which churns out 300K+ motors a year it makes no sense to fit out Ford Oz with $millions of new equipment when the entire 20-30K cars they're likely to sell would be 10% of the output of one plant in America.

We have FTA with America plus highish $Oz which make an imported large car more likely. We have FTA with Thailand, China and others under consideration for countries where Ford has plant. They could simply import 100%. Fiesta production for AsiaPac is moving to Thailand soon. The global light truck is slated for India. They don't have to move Focus production here - there's multiple other plants that could build them and they aren't selling anywhere near as many as they need to according to their own figures.

I would say, like Holden with the VE floorpan, if Ford change chassis as well as engine local production is gone. Holden won't be able to hold out long unprotected by import tariffs post 2010. They'll be forced to follow suit. Then Toyo will close Altona if not sooner (Aurion/Camry figures are not pretty), it's only there because the government made them 25 years ago. Game over.

[Holden Man]

About time they bought the Taurus back out again / sure to be a big sales hit !

[flappist]

About time they bought the Taurus back out again / sure to be a big sales hit !

Yeh they need something to combat the Calibra.....

[muzza]

Surely Ford cannot be so dumb as to repeat the mistakes of the past?

People wont buy a FWD "Falcon" or whatever it will be called - but given the plummeting sales figures it probably wont matter. Ford of Europe make some excellent small/medium cars, no doubt, and they export really well. Can't say the same for the Falcon's exports, despite the fact that it absolutely kills any other Stateside Ford sedan for performance/handling.

But Ford is so resolutely US based when it comes to Australia that they think we will like whatever they can cobble up for us (Taurus/AU anyone?)

GM at least recognised RWD expertise on small budget and the exports are doing Holden very nicely as well as keeping jobs here. But without exports the Commodore would be heading the same way, just a bit further nto the future.

It could be that Ford is in so much $sh*t in the US that they just can't afford to spend on the Aus operation in the next 10 years.

[nang3]

ugh FWD big sedan makes me think of Aurions or magnas etc..

a 400kw AWD typhoon would be tasty but a torque steerin FWD POS no thanks !!

being brand neutral it doesnt bother me too much apart from the possibility of a FWD ford turbo 6, which would be a terrible waste of such a brilliant drivetrain.

[VL Executive]

Will Hagen (ABC Radio Motoring journalist) Said last night that there may well be a FWD Falcon as early as the V6 introduction.

This is going to be sudden death for Ford Australia

Sad to see Aussie car manufacturing going this way.

[planetdavo]

Will Hagen (ABC Radio Motoring journalist) Said last night that there may well be a FWD Falcon as early as the V6 introduction.

Yet another of the bunch out to scare people by creating headlines out of nothing.
V6 Falcon is coming out in the CURRENT body shell, which was only recently released, as all of us "not up our own bums media people" know!

[PBoB]

If FoMoCo drop the Local-built RWD idea, what incentive for GMH to continue on with it?

Because Australians will ALWAYS have a desire for a large, four door, rear drive, 6 cylinder or V8 powered sedan. We need them to tow our caravans/boats/trailers/jetskis/car trailers etc. If Ford give the rear drive falcon away, yes it will be the sad end of an era, but more fool them for giving the market share of the big six game to Holden.

And don't even think about it, Toyota. The big six game...is NOT over....

[German Statesman]

The problem I see is twofold: one, they didn't alter the hardpoints in the current Falcon (bits like where the engines mount to, and the suspension swings from - changing these is big $$$, amounts to a new chassis). They have already said they aren't going to on Huntsman, the next version.

Reports from the US indicate Ford Oz is playing a reduced role in development of the GRWD chassis - they make nearly ten times as many Mustangs as Falcons and it's one of the few 'hits' Ford US has so there's $$$$ in it. The next Mustang revision, due 2010 has already been confirmed as a minor update. That chassis is too small and narrow for a Falcon, it's less than Camaro sized.

Ford, like GM, already announced several planned vehicles like a large Lincoln (Ford's version of a Cadillac) and Mercury (Buick) are staying FWD, and they are indicating they are to reduce or even eliminate V8s from cars in favour of 'Ecoboost' turbo fours and sixes. Plus they are reducing the US workforce, not by hundreds but tens of thousands and closing dozens of plants, from engine-bodywork-components.

That all increases the liklihood of a FWD global platform. If that happens, like the V6 plant which churns out 300K+ motors a year it makes no sense to fit out Ford Oz with $millions of new equipment when the entire 20-30K cars they're likely to sell would be 10% of the output of one plant in America.

We have FTA with America plus highish $Oz which make an imported large car more likely. We have FTA with Thailand, China and others under consideration for countries where Ford has plant. They could simply import 100%. Fiesta production for AsiaPac is moving to Thailand soon. The global light truck is slated for India. They don't have to move Focus production here - there's multiple other plants that could build them and they aren't selling anywhere near as many as they need to according to their own figures.

I would say, like Holden with the VE floorpan, if Ford change chassis as well as engine local production is gone. Holden won't be able to hold out long unprotected by import tariffs post 2010. They'll be forced to follow suit. Then Toyo will close Altona if not sooner (Aurion/Camry figures are not pretty), it's only there because the government made them 25 years ago. Game over.

The Panther RWD platform that the Lincoln Town car and the Crown Victoria are built on, dates back to 1979 and is due for replacement - so much so that the Crown Vic is now special order only and you'd most likely have to be a law enforcement agency or a taxi to order one new. Funnily enough, the Crown Vic is highly regarded by the two, and Ford don't want to commit market suicide by changing over to front wheel drive like GM did in the late 90s.

Ford Aust have limited credibility with Dearborn at the moment because of the AU debacle, and the massive amount of re-engineering and design it took to turn it into the BA before it was accepted. If you go back a couple of years, Broadmeadows also did it with the EA and again, the re-engineered car (4.0 engine, tougher bodyshell, more welcoming interior, 4sp auto) that was the EB then EB2 was vastly superior to the original.

I'm thinking the replacement to the Panther platform will haver a number of vehicles built off it, and it will be a case of Dearborn telling Broadmeadows "here's what you're going to have to work with, but if you don't have the numbers to make you're own, you'll get a RHD version of what we make."

My 2c worth

[mitchtj]

Because Australians will ALWAYS have a desire for a large, four door, rear drive, 6 cylinder or V8 powered sedan. We need them to tow our caravans/boats/trailers/jetskis/car trailers etc. If Ford give the rear drive falcon away, yes it will be the sad end of an era, but more fool them for giving the market share of the big six game to Holden.

And don't even think about it, Toyota. The big six game...is NOT over....
i have been seeing a lot of Aurions on the road lately, so Toyota isn't going too badly.

[PBoB]

i have been seeing a lot of Aurions on the road lately, so Toyota isn't going too badly.

It's not a matter of how Toyota are doing with sales mate, it's the fact that all day long, regardless of how much leather/speakers/cup holders etc, an Aurion comes with, a Falcon/Commodore will ALWAYS out tow one. And THAT, is my point when I say that Australians will always have a desire for a big six rear drive. Anybody who knows the least thing about cars will absolutely not buy a front wheel drive car to tow their double bogie caravan, the only people who do, are loyal to Toyota, ill-informed tools in for a surprise when their headlights are pointing into the trees and the car won't steer properly.

[muzza]

The Panther RWD platform that the Lincoln Town car and the Crown Victoria are built on, dates back to 1979 and is due for replacement - so much so that the Crown Vic is now special order only and you'd most likely have to be a law enforcement agency or a taxi to order one new. Funnily enough, the Crown Vic is highly regarded by the two, and Ford don't want to commit market suicide by changing over to front wheel drive like GM did in the late 90s.

Ford Aust have limited credibility with Dearborn at the moment because of the AU debacle, and the massive amount of re-engineering and design it took to turn it into the BA before it was accepted. If you go back a couple of years, Broadmeadows also did it with the EA and again, the re-engineered car (4.0 engine, tougher bodyshell, more welcoming interior, 4sp auto) that was the EB then EB2 was vastly superior to the original.

I'm thinking the replacement to the Panther platform will haver a number of vehicles built off it, and it will be a case of Dearborn telling Broadmeadows "here's what you're going to have to work with, but if you don't have the numbers to make you're own, you'll get a RHD version of what we make."

My 2c worth

Isn't it crazy that the Yanks need to update their old crappy RWD platform and Ford Aus has it ready to go, albeit in RHD format, and yet the yanks dont want to adopt the Falcon as the solution despite several of their execs having driven it and saying it is a top notch sedan! That's where GM have a way better world view.

I think you're being a bit unfair blaming the AU debacle on Ford Aus when it was the US BigWigs over here at the time that pushed the design to be like the Taurus ugliness. The EA was a fundamentally good car with neat exterior design so no AU disaster, but I agree it needed the 4 spd auto and various engine/interior refinements to make it really good.

[Road Warrior]

Because Australians will ALWAYS have a desire for a large, four door, rear drive, 6 cylinder or V8 powered sedan. We need them to tow our caravans/boats/trailers/jetskis/car trailers etc. If Ford give the rear drive falcon away, yes it will be the sad end of an era, but more fool them for giving the market share of the big six game to Holden.

And don't even think about it, Toyota. The big six game...is NOT over....

Hammer + nail = hit on the head. Toyota and their wankery shit me. I wonder how many of those clowns have tried towing a car trailer with a Camaurion.


The Panther RWD platform that the Lincoln Town car and the Crown Victoria are built on, dates back to 1979 and is due for replacement - so much so that the Crown Vic is now special order only and you'd most likely have to be a law enforcement agency or a taxi to order one new. Funnily enough, the Crown Vic is highly regarded by the two, and Ford don't want to commit market suicide by changing over to front wheel drive like GM did in the late 90s.

Ford Aust have limited credibility with Dearborn at the moment because of the AU debacle, and the massive amount of re-engineering and design it took to turn it into the BA before it was accepted. If you go back a couple of years, Broadmeadows also did it with the EA and again, the re-engineered car (4.0 engine, tougher bodyshell, more welcoming interior, 4sp auto) that was the EB then EB2 was vastly superior to the original.

I'm thinking the replacement to the Panther platform will haver a number of vehicles built off it, and it will be a case of Dearborn telling Broadmeadows "here's what you're going to have to work with, but if you don't have the numbers to make you're own, you'll get a RHD version of what we make."

My 2c worth

The "AU debacle" was forced onto them by Dearborn, it was an ugly POS but it was because of the seppo's and their interfering. They even had to concede that their shitty "new edge" styling was a colossal failure and it was officially canned in 2000, there is an article on Wiki about it. This of course is in the face of Dearborn's prior meddling in local operations by trying to get Aussie motorists to swallow that horrid looking Tore-ass (Taurus) which bombed in sales. You would have thought they would have learnt their lesson hey.

So after all of Dearborn's meddling and the products that Ford has developed here on a (relative) shoestring budget like the BA, BF and FG that outshine everything else in Ford America's catalogue, I think they have quite a bit of credibility back in Detroit. Especially when the head honcho back in Detroit says he wants a turbo Aussie Falcon for himself.

The problem is that US engineers for the local RWD programs over there (Crown Vic/Town Car, Mustang) traditionally, have always jealously guarded their interests and resisted and white-anted any attempts to 'share' knowledge or recognise that the stuff over here is better. I think that things will eventually go the way you have predicted though...

[Dacious]

Toyota Oz as a manufacturer is not doing well. People point out the decline in Commy sales, but at the height of Avalon, Toyo were selling about 3,500 Camrys, many of them V6s, and 3000 Avalons a month. Today, most months the combined output of Altona is about 3500 a month. Aurion has good months when they discount (which they effectively did within six months of intro) but it seems to take sales from Camry. Toyo said Aurion was last throw of the dice in making a local 'big six' but appears to be being as sunk by imports as Ford and Holden.

Bearing in mind many Guvmints mandate locally-made and/or 4 cylinder the Camry is probably now majority fleet. When those ex-fleet Camrys hit the lots in a few years, Joe Average Camry buyer is going to be as pee'd off as a Commy buyer come resale time.

I think Ford Oz is not the issue - we all know I think where they sit on this: Ford International is bleeding worse than GM, less in dollars but it isn't as big a company, and it has no Daewoo, Buick China or Chev Europe to buffer it. If push comes to shove, big bread and butter FWDs which sell in six figures in America are more important to them than a little arsewipe backwater like Oz with 1 million annual sales.

And Holden is in pretty much the same boat, unfortunately. If one goes, they all will, eventually.


July sales:

1. Holden Commodore – 4906

4. Ford Falcon – 3448

7. Toyota Camry – 1912

12. Mitsubishi Lancer - 1,395
13. Toyota Aurion - 1,376

Mitsu's apparently lost the '380 Blues' in a few months, and Camry is now lagging several models including Toyos it used to trounce. Toyota would be ingesting these results and considering their options, I am sure.

[offshore]

"And Holden is in pretty much the same boat, unfortunately. If one goes, they all will, eventually."

If this is the case which is looking more likely at some stage then I just hope the Government pisses the bloody tarifs and taxes off imports so we can at least buy foreign cars at reasonable prices not the absolute rip off prices we see now.

[Excellent]

Toyota Oz as a manufacturer is not doing well. People point out the decline in Commy sales, but at the height of Avalon, Toyo were selling about 3,500 Camrys, many of them V6s, and 3000 Avalons a month. Today, most months the combined output of Altona is about 3500 a month. Aurion has good months when they discount (which they effectively did within six months of intro) but it seems to take sales from Camry. Toyo said Aurion was last throw of the dice in making a local 'big six' but appears to be being as sunk by imports as Ford and Holden.

Bearing in mind many Guvmints mandate locally-made and/or 4 cylinder the Camry is probably now majority fleet. When those ex-fleet Camrys hit the lots in a few years, Joe Average Camry buyer is going to be as pee'd off as a Commy buyer come resale time.

I think Ford Oz is not the issue - we all know I think where they sit on this: Ford International is bleeding worse than GM, less in dollars but it isn't as big a company, and it has no Daewoo, Buick China or Chev Europe to buffer it. If push comes to shove, big bread and butter FWDs which sell in six figures in America are more important to them than a little arsewipe backwater like Oz with 1 million annual sales.

And Holden is in pretty much the same boat, unfortunately. If one goes, they all will, eventually.


July sales:

1. Holden Commodore – 4906

4. Ford Falcon – 3448

7. Toyota Camry – 1912

12. Mitsubishi Lancer - 1,395
13. Toyota Aurion - 1,376

Mitsu's apparently lost the '380 Blues' in a few months, and Camry is now lagging several models including Toyos it used to trounce. Toyota would be ingesting these results and considering their options, I am sure.

The problem with that statement is that Toyota export 70,000 Camrys to the ME and just made a $240M profit last financial year.

[Road Warrior]

Mitsu's apparently lost the '380 Blues' in a few months

This is important, and a key issue that none of the crapmakers (journalists) have touched on. Mitsubishi went from dire straits/cancelling the 380/finalising local production/massive debt - to a situation now where they are turning a profit selling imports only, all within the space of a few months. $371 Million profit last month??? Surely the other automakers will be doing this calculation as well. Local production which, at the moment involves taking a massive burn in sales and debt, compared to retail operations only, selling imports...and making huge profits...


The problem with that statement is that Toyota export 70,000 Camrys to the ME and just made a $240M profit last financial year.

Those 70,000 Camrys to the ME can just as easily come from US plants because the Camry is manufactured there as well in LHD.

[toyocharged]

Anybody who knows the least thing about cars will absolutely not buy a front wheel drive car to tow their double bogie caravan, the only people who do, are loyal to Toyota, ill-informed tools in for a surprise when their headlights are pointing into the trees and the car won't steer properly.

Yep and most people who actually tow very big Tandem axle vans will tow it with a big 4WD like a Landcruiser, Patrol etc... something holden doesnt cater for unless you include the Captiva in that company:)


Hammer + nail = hit on the head. Toyota and their wankery shit me. I wonder how many of those clowns have tried towing a car trailer with a Camaurion.

Only one clown here mate:rofl:, as if you would tow a massive van with a Camry or a Falcadore for that matter, your a friggin idiot mate

[muzza]

There's another thing that Toyota has in their favour is minimal local design/set up costs. Most of their core engineering is completed overseas with local fiddling/tuning carried out here. Most tooling is done elsewhere and one basic car is built in 100 different places, amortising the cost accross many units.

As others have pointed out, exports are what "saves" local car manufacturing, reasonable tarriffs protect local jobs - every other country in the world has them in one form or another and our Gov't is nuts if they think that lowering them further will be good for what I think is the second biggest industry in Oz.

At least Ford have a very successful European arm, and a majority in Mazda who are doing excellent busine$$. Their US-centric thinking is their biggest liability when it comes to our local operations.