Porsche accuses Nissan of falsifying GT-R Nurburgring lap times

[Excellent]

Quote:
There’s something very puzzling about Nissan’s all-new GT-R supercar. Its official output figures read 480hp (358kW) and 588Nm (434lb-ft) of torque and its mass registers at 1,723kg, but the car can still outrun the 911 Turbo around the notorious Nurburgring by a healthy margin despite the Porsche weighing less and producing more torque (1633kg and 457lb-ft respectively).

Nissan’s official lap time for the Nurburgring is a blistering 7m 29s, set back in May. The lap times were for a stock-standard base specification GT-R fitted with the same Japanese market tires as the cars in showrooms, according to claims by Nissan.

Porsche, however, claims Nissan falsified these numbers and posted the quicker times because of semi-slick race-style tires. The German sports carmaker even purchased its own GT-R and set about testing it against both the 911 Turbo and GT2 and in both cases it claims the GT-R was the slowest. The laps were run by one of Porsche’s chassis development engineers and not its regular tester, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl.

Speaking with Australia’s CarsGuide this week, Porsche’s 911 product chief August Achleitner said the GT-R used by Nissan to post its official times could not have been a regular series production car.

He said Porsche took a standard GT-R bought in the United States and running on regular road tires, and was tested on the same day as the pair of 911s. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the GT2 getting down to 7m 34s.

Link (http://www.motorauthority.com/porsche-accuses-nissan-of-falsifying-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-times.html)

[Toddler78]

Quote:
There’s something very puzzling about Nissan’s all-new GT-R supercar. Its official output figures read 480hp (358kW) and 588Nm (434lb-ft) of torque and its mass registers at 1,723kg, but the car can still outrun the 911 Turbo around the notorious Nurburgring by a healthy margin despite the Porsche weighing less and producing more torque (1633kg and 457lb-ft respectively).

Nissan’s official lap time for the Nurburgring is a blistering 7m 29s, set back in May. The lap times were for a stock-standard base specification GT-R fitted with the same Japanese market tires as the cars in showrooms, according to claims by Nissan.

Porsche, however, claims Nissan falsified these numbers and posted the quicker times because of semi-slick race-style tires. The German sports carmaker even purchased its own GT-R and set about testing it against both the 911 Turbo and GT2 and in both cases it claims the GT-R was the slowest. The laps were run by one of Porsche’s chassis development engineers and not its regular tester, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl.

Speaking with Australia’s CarsGuide this week, Porsche’s 911 product chief August Achleitner said the GT-R used by Nissan to post its official times could not have been a regular series production car.

He said Porsche took a standard GT-R bought in the United States and running on regular road tires, and was tested on the same day as the pair of 911s. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the GT2 getting down to 7m 34s.

Link (http://www.motorauthority.com/porsche-accuses-nissan-of-falsifying-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-times.html)


very interesting, thats a pretty bold statement by porsche to make. bolder if proven correct.

lets see the outcome of this one.

[seedyrom]

I like the comment below the story

I would just love to see Porsche bring out it's best driver, on road tires, and Nissan do the same, and do three laps each, one staggered a half-lap behind the other (so track conditions are the same) and see what the average times are.
Then throw in a ZR-1 for good fun and I'll be glued to the screen... :)

[Ghosn]

And the Porsche is 10x better looking than the GTR which looks like a maxima on steroids

:hide:

[exploder]

And the Porsche is 10x better looking than the GTR which looks like a maxima on steroids

:hide:

In the Top Gear episode where they test the new Skyline, Clarkson announces it as the logical successor to the Datsun 120Y :smilesandbanana:

[Holden Man]

I reckon the GTR has it over the Porsche in performance but time will tell.
(It does sound like sour grapes / good plug for the GTR unless they are proven to be cheats)

[QalaQ]

The GTR is better track performance than the 911 but not that much in the Ring

we will see what will happened next days, but I don't think Nissan will do it again ;)

[flappist]

For a $150k GTR to be even close to a $450k Porsche let alone ahead of it is pretty amazing.

A GTS (or even a 350z) will eat a $150k Porsche Cayman and would probably almost do the same to a Cayman S ($190k).

* Prices based on me going in to Brisbane Porsche a couple of weeks ago to see about the advertised $121k new Cayman only to find that it had a tiny engine, no go fast bits and did not include ORC... :)

[clubbie]

Remember the GTR's debut at Targa Tasmania?

Nup....you know why? Could not even run in the top 20 against Subaru's Lancer's and Porsche's....it's enemy over any long period will be it's weight.

Wait until Nissan actually get serious now that their reputation has been tarnished and drop 300kg from the GTR....then it will be unbeatable. As for the lap times at the ring they were in question from the day Nissan announced them (semi comp's and not a full lap etc etc etc). Roll on the Vspec.....

As for the price $150K seems cheap performance compared to any new Porsche.

Clubbie

[bouka]

The grapes are a bit sour in Germany me thinks.

[Red CV8 R]

Remember the GTR's debut at Targa Tasmania?

Nup....you know why? Could not even run in the top 20 against Subaru's Lancer's and Porsche's....it's enemy over any long period will be it's weight.

Wait until Nissan actually get serious now that their reputation has been tarnished and drop 300kg from the GTR....then it will be unbeatable. As for the lap times at the ring they were in question from the day Nissan announced them (semi comp's and not a full lap etc etc etc). Roll on the Vspec.....

As for the price $150K seems cheap performance compared to any new Porsche.

Clubbie

Did OK the second time out:

http://jpcnews.blogspot.com/2008/09/r35-gt-r-wins-at-targa-west.html

The issue is more that it runs on street tyres while the rest of the field runs on semi comps. It is also a pretty stock car versus well sorted, heavily modified and stripped EVO's, STi and Porsche's. I think maybe give the R35 a bit of time before judging it to harshly :)

[pagey]

Did OK the second time out:

http://jpcnews.blogspot.com/2008/09/r35-gt-r-wins-at-targa-west.html

The issue is more that it runs on street tyres while the rest of the field runs on semi comps. It is also a pretty stock car versus well sorted, heavily modified and stripped EVO's, STi and Porsche's. I think maybe give the R35 a bit of time before judging it to harshly :)

Bingo.. knocking of arguably the best/one of the best 911 pilots about in Jim Richards in his full race prep 911 GT2 running R comp tyres & the Lambo superleggera in essentially std trim (prob a tune etc) std tired car is pretty cool in anyones book...


The R35 is set to humble plenty of bid $$ "supercars" that's for sure.. and the best bit is it can make even the most avg Jo look good.. providing they have the balls/stupidity to drive it to it's potential!.....

honestly i think that would be the hardest part in driving one of these little rippers.. having the confidence to do what your head is telling you the car shouldn't be able to do..

[clubbie]

Not knocking the GTR or judging harshly....I am just saying in stock form it's FAT and the tyres won't last for a track/rally/targa car.

Thats a fact.

I repeat Vspec -300kg = unbeatable no matter what the budget.

Glad we agree. Baby Veyron anyone?

Clubbie

[Evman]

For a $150k GTR to be even close to a $450k Porsche let alone ahead of it is pretty amazing.

I agree. Even if the times were falsified I bet they weren't by much. Having said that, with the time the ZR1 set, whyyyy the f*** do OHC fans still bag pushrods? Idiots!


Glad we agree. Baby Veyron anyone?

Clubbie

Performance credentials maybe, but never in sheer awesome-ness ;)

[lux_06]

if i remeber correctly the old car (r34 gtr)'s time was 7. 54 or there abouts, from everything ive seen, read and watched on this car, they say it desimates the old one. have a look at the figures in motor (i know eveyone hates motor but there still figures) from a few months ago when they compared the last 4 generations of the car.

[skip100]

Not knocking the GTR or judging harshly....I am just saying in stock form it's FAT and the tyres won't last for a track/rally/targa car.


Yes, that's what Best Motoring International observed, on the track at least (in the "GTR Loaded" DVD - great DVD btw)

Greg.

[SS Enforcer]

He said Porsche took a standard GT-R bought in the United States and running on regular road tires, and was tested on the same day as the pair of 911s. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the GT2 getting down to 7m 34s.

Link (http://www.motorauthority.com/porsche-accuses-nissan-of-falsifying-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-times.html)

And the ZR1 Chev smokes all of em ROFL

YouTube - Corvette ZR1 Nurburgring 7:26.4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikj90_Un0o)



cheers

[Martin_D]

honestly i think that would be the hardest part in driving one of these little rippers.. having the confidence to do what your head is telling you the car shouldn't be able to do..

And you are right :)
The most annoying thing? Superbikes that want to 'play'...and it seems via some kind of weird fixation most of them do. The real danger is running into the back of them into, through, and then out of corners. Getting stuck behind a pack of Rossi wannabes on a casual hills drive in GTR is like pulling up behind a tourist bus on the Great Ocean Road.....you might as well drop it back into Auto turn the climate up and start shuffling the CDs :lol:

As for the ring? Try and find a single test result anywhere showing a 997 keeping pace with a GTR on any surface. Porsche have to realise that their 50 year old chassis structure simply cant keep up anymore with smarter more modern designs :)

[HYMEY]

I seen a porsche 911 outbreak a R1 at eastern creek but the R1 would then blow it stupid down the straight. All depends on the rider, with the GTR being so heavy and with a power to weight ratio about 3 times more so than any 20G production bike(1:1) I find it hard to believe.

[Martin_D]

I seen a porsche 911 outbreak a R1 at eastern creek but the R1 would then blow it stupid down the straight. All depends on the rider, with the GTR being so heavy and with a power to weight ratio about 3 times more so than any 20G production bike(1:1) I find it hard to believe.

Believe it....bikes simply cannot brake or corner quickly enough.
GTR in stock trim will generate over 1.0g of lateral cornering force and a whole lot more than that under brakes.

[Peter B - CV8]

Believe it....bikes simply cannot brake or corner quickly enough.
GTR in stock trim will generate over 1.0g of lateral cornering force and a whole lot more than that under brakes.

He's right - with braking & cornering it comes down to whats in contact with the road. 4 tyres will beat 2 tyres nearly every day (the exception being trucks etc - because of their sheer weight).

[Carby]

And you are right :)
The most annoying thing? Superbikes that want to 'play'...and it seems via some kind of weird fixation most of them do. The real danger is running into the back of them into, through, and then out of corners. Getting stuck behind a pack of Rossi wannabes on a casual hills drive in GTR is like pulling up behind a tourist bus on the Great Ocean Road.....you might as well drop it back into Auto turn the climate up and start shuffling the CDs :lol:

As for the ring? Try and find a single test result anywhere showing a 997 keeping pace with a GTR on any surface. Porsche have to realise that their 50 year old chassis structure simply cant keep up anymore with smarter more modern designs :)

I wonder what a R1 would do around the Ring? Many sweeping corners where a 4 wheeled vehicles advantage over a bike would be minimal. As far as acceleration and top speed is concerned the GTR driver would be fumbling with the Climate controls and dropped his latest Michael Buble CD as the R1 tore past him.......................:rofl:

[Vulture]

It sounds like Porsche have the data to back up their claim...I can't see them making a pronouncement like this without proof. I always thought there was something fishy about the GTR getting around the ring faster than a GT2.

The Japs used to be renowned for B.S. claims in years gone by, sad if they are still doing it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the GTR and would have one in a flash; they don't need to B.S. to sell them; it is already a cult car.

[STATIE]

Bloody Japs & Krauts - always trying to take over the world.

[HYMEY]

Jamie Stauffer has the lap record at eastern creek on a R1 superbike. 1.31.655, did it in 1.33's on a 600cc. A V8 supercar prepped for that track still to this day has not beaten that record. Thats with 600hp+ and 500kg lighter than the GTR. The weight is what concerns me. An R32 GTR race prepped has ran in 1.38's and a Porsche 911 cup car has ran in the 1.33s both of which are gutted and not heavy weight production vehicles. I am keen to see results on Australian circuits with a decent driver aboard.


And the ZR1 Chev smokes all of em ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikj90_Un0o



cheers

7.26 time to beat?

F%$k!!! that thing sounds good and does it effortlessly. Just sit on 175mph cruising down the straight so easily.

[Trek52]

I am a bike guy to but the fact is the corner speeds and brake force of a car will kill any bike.

A motoGP bike accelerates at a similar speed to an F1 car but the bike is 20 sec a lap slower.....

An ave guy on an r1 will do 2min at EC and any gumby in a new clubsport could do that...

[SchrgdVSV6]

So porsche purchased a GTR, ran it on the 'ring and everyone is surprised that they claimed a slower lap time with it?
I heard Nissan responded to that accusation, as they too have tested the porsches back to back with the GTR while they were doing their testing.

Speculation aside, lets see some other track times of GTR v porsche.


Top Gear
GTR - 1:19.7
Carrera GT - 1:19.8

Evo
GTR - 1:23.6
GT2 - 1:23.5
LP560 - 1:22.5
Scuderia - 1:22.5 (1:21.5 with revised tire pressures)

C&D Lightning Lap of VIR
GTR - 2:55.6
Scuderia - 2:54.6

C&D Button Willows
GTR hammers 997TT by 6 seconds

CAR Magazine - Rockingham
GTR beats 997TT by over a second

Autocar
GTR beats GT3 by over a second

Road and Track - El Toro Autocross
GTR - 40.63
GT2 - 40.61

Road and Track - Streets of Willow
GTR - 68.9
GT2 - 69.77

Road and Track - Willow Springs IR
GTR - 91.23
GT2 - 93.57

Road and Track - Auto Club Speedway (oval course)
GTR - 50.94
GT2 - 51.85

Road and Track - Final Tally points
GTR - 98.63
GT2 - 98.16

Best Motoring
GTR beats 997TT by over a second

Autocar Isle of Man Road Course
Sector 1
GTR - 31.3
LP560 - 32.1

Sector 2
GTR - 1:22.9
LP560 - 1:25.5

Autocar Track Course
GTR - 1:08.4
LP560 - 1:08.8

CAR Track Course
GTR - 1:00.6
LP560 - 1:00.5


Seems like the GTR performs just fine to me????

[Toddler78]

Jamie Stauffer has the lap record at eastern creek on a R1 superbike. 1.31.655, did it in 1.33's on a 600cc. A V8 supercar prepped for that track still to this day has not beaten that record. Thats with 600hp+ and 500kg lighter than the GTR. The weight is what concerns me. An R32 GTR race prepped has ran in 1.38's and a Porsche 911 cup car has ran in the 1.33s both of which are gutted and not heavy weight production vehicles. I am keen to see results on Australian circuits with a decent driver aboard.



7.26 time to beat?

F%$k!!! that thing sounds good and does it effortlessly. Just sit on 175mph cruising down the straight so easily.

you cant use EC as an good example Hymey, the bike will make its time up on the straight. I would hazzard to guess that at a track like the ring 4 wheels will out perform 2 due to the seccesive croners and undulating surface. Tyre technology on bikes have made them go incrediable quick over the recent years.

As others have said a GTR will have it on a bike going into the corner up until the apex after the apex a good rider should be able to put some space between themselves and the car.
Dont forget we are talking to adverage joes here one on 2 wheels the other of 4, 4 wheels just make it easier for the dopy to look good. A weekend racer wantable (bike rider) will have nothing on someone that has the experience of throwing a bike into a corner.

[FlatfootV8]

And the ZR1 Chev smokes all of em ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikj90_Un0o



cheers


Very impressive as good as the GT-R is I would have the ZR1 instead... Oh the hell with it if I had the cash I would have both the ZR1 and GT-R.... :bow:

[Excellent]

The driver raised his right arm for every time he felt he made a mistake. Still an awesome footage and a great drive. It wouldn't be easy to commit 21km of race track to memory. :goodjob:

[R Dirty 3]

Definately sounds like sour grapes. Hope they can proove such a claim.

*mutters* no wonder they lost the war! :)

[vlcalais8]

Sorry to the Chev fans but Dodge smokes them all

YouTube - Record at the Nurburgring! Viper ACR! 7.22,1! (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zoxlpZjotMI)

Love it or hate it you can't argue with this

Still would definately not mind a ZR-1, R35 or GT2 up in the driveway

[skip100]

Fifth Gear (Bruno Senna in both cars):
911 Turbo: 1:45.33
GTR: 1:45.08

[iamhappy46]

Chassis Development Engineer tested the GTR... Hmmm, one of those quality control guys that test drive the Porsche Cayenne after production and drive them up a bumpy road to check for noise and loose suspension?

Independant testing by Porsche = Epic Fail.

[John_]

Quote:
There’s something very puzzling about Nissan’s all-new GT-R supercar. Its official output figures read 480hp (358kW) and 588Nm (434lb-ft) of torque and its mass registers at 1,723kg, but the car can still outrun the 911 Turbo around the notorious Nurburgring by a healthy margin despite the Porsche weighing less and producing more torque (1633kg and 457lb-ft respectively).


This has been answered already. Nissan underrates the power of the GT-R as tested on many chassis dynos overseas. The GT-R makes more power than a 911 Turbo whether people want to accept that or not is their problem.



Quote:
He said Porsche took a standard GT-R bought in the United States and running on regular road tires, and was tested on the same day as the pair of 911s. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the GT2 getting down to 7m 34s.

Link (http://www.motorauthority.com/porsche-accuses-nissan-of-falsifying-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-times.html)


Porsche testing a GT-R and claiming it's slower is like Sony testing an X-Box and telling us the PS3 is better. But the problem for Porsche is this. Every independent car review in the world thus far has proven the GT-R to be faster than both the 911 Turbo and GT2, both in a straight line and on the track. This is fact whether Porsche want to accept it or not. What Porsche has a problem with is how a bloody $150K car can pull the pants down on it's $350K+++ behemoths. Answer? Simple, Porsche stop ripping off your customers.

[payaya]

Sorry to the Chev fans but Dodge smokes them all

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zoxlpZjotMI

Love it or hate it you can't argue with this

Still would definately not mind a ZR-1, R35 or GT2 up in the driveway

Some american vehicle are faster than the GTR but you got to understand with the americans theres always massive compromises. Yanks cant build a quick car unless they put on massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing.

We do not like vehicles like this nor europe. If the yanks claim their car is quicker then good luck to them.

[Evman]

...Yanks cant build a quick car unless they put on massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing.

We do not like vehicles like this nor europe. If the yanks claim their car is quicker then good luck to them.

Ummm... What's wrong with massive tyres, big engines and low mass? The last one I think you will find is a global goal, not just America! I think you'll also find we do like vehicles like this, and so does Europe. Otherwise Lotus would be the big player, not Lambo, Fezza, etc with their big engined, big treaded and lightweight cars...

[FlatfootV8]

Some american vehicle are faster than the GTR but you got to understand with the americans theres always massive compromises. Yanks cant build a quick car unless they put on massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing.

We do not like vehicles like this nor europe. If the yanks claim their car is quicker then good luck to them.

That's the usual recipe on making a fast car no matter who makes it... In all honesty the Yanks has come a long way in terms of building performance cars.. Sure some are slightly rough around the edges but credit is given when its due.. I find the Corvette ZR1 to be a sensational car just like the GT-R.. But then again look at the weight on some Ferrari's and Lamborghini's some are close to and some are over the weight of our bread and butter cars we get here... And yet they can get excellent performance out of them..

[AFAR]

Some american vehicle are faster than the GTR but you got to understand with the americans theres always massive compromises. Yanks cant build a quick car unless they put on massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing.

We do not like vehicles like this nor europe. If the yanks claim their car is quicker then good luck to them.

Times have changed since the 80's and 90's my friend..
Corvettes for the last 4-5 years have come a long way.

Sure they put in big engines, but so does every other big name supercar eg. Enzo,zonda,buggati,lp640, etc.
Notice something?
THESE CARS ARE FROM EUROPE!


As for the Porche turbo/gt2 vs GTR.
I would take a any of the porches over the gtr anyday.
Let the GTR be faster.
Porsche is still better than Nissan.

[iloveholden]

I think the GERMANS! are a little sour on this...they can keep their Porsches and GTR's.

Give me a ZR-1 any day, looks awsome and is quicker + it sounds way better than the other two.

[SHANESVZSS]

+ 1

I to would take the ZR-1.

[Gee]

Some american vehicle are faster than the GTR but you got to understand with the americans theres always massive compromises. Yanks cant build a quick car unless they put on massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing.

We do not like vehicles like this nor europe. If the yanks claim their car is quicker then good luck to them.

I'll join in the here too ... like the post in the other GTR thread about it not being so good if you took the technology out of it ... fair dinkum, that really makes you think :confused:

There's maybe not as much "we" here as you think. "massive tyres, massive engine and make the thing weight nothing" ... Sounds like a muscle car to me - sign me up.

Its academic as I dont have enough folding for any of these cars, but I'd take the 'Vette. Even if it isnt as fast as the Dodge as I dont like the look of it. I'd take it even if its wasnt faster than the GTR. I'd take it over the W427 hands down.

Im a bogan at heart.

[vlcalais8]

Times have changed since the 80's and 90's my friend..
Corvettes for the last 4-5 years have come a long way.

Sure they put in big engines, but so does every other big name supercar eg. Enzo,zonda,buggati,lp640, etc.
Notice something?
THESE CARS ARE FROM EUROPE!


As for the Porche turbo/gt2 vs GTR.
I would take a any of the porches over the gtr anyday.
Let the GTR be faster.
Porsche is still better than Nissan.

Definately agree with this, go 5 years back the Corvette was a bit limp risted and was dominated by the Viper (which is its main competitor). Fast forward to present they are on par with each other. Even Dodge lifted its game with the Viper, and like mentioned yes they might be a little rough around the edges but never the less each get the job done that they were designed to do and they both do it extremely well. Yes you will also find faster cars but don't even bother comparing them once the price comes into the equation. Best bang for your buck definately goes to the US muscle machines. again not to say anything else is crap but you have to give credit where its due

[R Dirty 3]

T
Porsche is still better than Nissan.

I understand this is your opinion and i respect that and with my next question im not trying to start a fight, but what makes porsche better than Nissan?

[Freaky]

I think the GERMANS! are a little sour on this...they can keep their Porsches and GTR's.

Give me a ZR-1 any day, looks awsome and is quicker + it sounds way better than the other two.


i find it amusing how so many people get their knickers in a knot about which is faster.

The GTR and porsche are very close performance wise.

How many people can actually extract maximum performance out of these cars and drive them to the very limit. Raise your hands.

Very few i'd suspect, so at the end of the day who cares. People that can afford will probably buy one of each, or simply buy the one they fancy.

[iamhappy46]

I understand this is your opinion and i respect that and with my next question im not trying to start a fight, but what makes porsche better than Nissan?

The loan repayments?

The new GTR also seems to be holding its secondhand value better than any late model Porsche :bow:

[Toddler78]

I suppose this gives a new meaning to 'sourkraut'


i find it amusing how so many people get their knickers in a knot about which is faster.

The GTR and porsche are very close performance wise.

How many people can actually extract maximum performance out of these cars and drive them to the very limit. Raise your hands.

Very few i'd suspect, so at the end of the day who cares. People that can afford will probably buy one of each, or simply buy the one they fancy.


yes good point, However I think with the software and programing in the GTR would make it easier for the least skilled driver to drive it closer to its full potential then the vette and less so the porsche

[Titanium]

I wonder what a R1 would do around the Ring? Many sweeping corners where a 4 wheeled vehicles advantage over a bike would be minimal. As far as acceleration and top speed is concerned the GTR driver would be fumbling with the Climate controls and dropped his latest Michael Buble CD as the R1 tore past him.......................:rofl:

Bikes around the Ring.

7:21.8 MV Agusta F4 R 312 Andy "AndyPath" Carlile 15 Oct 2008 Performance Bikes Magazine January 2008

7:28.8 Yamaha YZF-R1 "The Baron" n/a Performance Bikes Magazine October 2007 n/a

7:32.1 Yamaha YZF-R1 Brendan Keirle n/a Sliders Guest House video lap Aug 2006 n/a

7:32.6 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory "The Baron" n/a reported in PB Magazine August 2007 n/a

7:35.7 Suzuki GSX-R1000K7 Dale Lomas (Ex-Roadtest Editor of Performance Bikes Magazine) n/a [59] n/a

7:50 Suzuki GSX-R1000 vs Aprilia RSV1000R Fausto "Faustone" Severi & Helmut Dähne 2002 [60]

[korrupt]

Bikes around the Ring.

I think there is a cream to help clear that up...

[TLX]

I think there is a cream to help clear that up...

:moon: :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[clubbie]

This is stating a fact to everybody that has contributed to this thread.

The question posted frequently has been which is faster?

The answer is very cut and dried. The Porsche is faster.

Take a stock Porsche (any model) and a stock GTR and the Porsche wins by at least 100kph+.

Clubbie

Take them to a known track and all that changes where the GTR $1.80 limiter is removed

[AFAR]

I understand this is your opinion and i respect that and with my next question im not trying to start a fight, but what makes porsche better than Nissan?

Name, build quality, interior, exterior (maybe), history.
Take a pick?

Sure price limits nissan of achieving this with their current top end model (the gtr), but very few people in this day and age will throw $350K towards any nissan.
In 5-10 years maybe, today no.

[Freaky]

yes good point, However I think with the software and programing in the GTR would make it easier for the least skilled driver to drive it closer to its full potential then the vette and less so the porsche

I hear where your coming from and agree.

I just wonder thought, given the extreme cornering abilites and handling of the GTR, many would be frightened to go anywhere near the limits even with all the electronics.

The fear factor will have them backing off i'd reckon.

[seedyrom]

Take them to a known track and all that changes where the GTR $1.80 limiter is removed
LOL

Hadn't thought about that one :)


Did Porsche really drive the GTR around the ring with a 180kp/h speed restricter bouncing off its nuts, then claim a victory?

They did say they bought a stocker and flew it straight over.

technically they are correct ... but morally ....

[Toddler78]

LOL

Hadn't thought about that one :)


Did Porsche really drive the GTR around the ring with a 180kp/h speed restricter bouncing off its nuts, then claim a victory?

They did say they bought a stocker and flew it straight over.

technically they are correct ... but morally ....

shouldnt be a problem seedy, as soon as the GTR gets to the gates of a known racetrack, limiter along with other software is disengaged

[seedyrom]

REALLY??!!?!?!


Now THAT is cool! I don't often drop this in a hetrosexual sense, but that is in fact FABULOUS! :bow:

[offshore]

Walter Rohl would have been quicker in that car. The guy backed off a couple of times i noticed and also on that last long straight it was stuck on 172mph for ages where it should have been still accelerating because the car can do 200mph. So it should have been creaping up past 180 I reckon even though it nearly did at the last down hill bit.

[iamhappy46]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12

Nissan have already replied to Porsches 'claims'

[offshore]

Sounds like he was dodging the question there. The fact remains there is no way a car weighing as much as the new GTR weighs with the power quoted can get any where near the times quoted at the ring. And times quoted by Porsche are probably much more realistic.

[scharged]

Sorry to the Chev fans but Dodge smokes them all

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zoxlpZjotMI

Love it or hate it you can't argue with this

Still would definately not mind a ZR-1, R35 or GT2 up in the driveway


You forgot to mention that the Viper had suspension alterations and aero adjustments which was not supplied out of the factory, not to mention its 'hardcore package' which eliminates 36kg of unnecessary features like radio, speakers, amplifier, trunk carpet, hood pad and tire inflator. They went as far as removing the front fog lights and replacing it with lightweight fillings.

I'd like to see the ZR1 get the same treatment, well at least the suspension tweaks and then we might see some 'accurate' results when compared with the Viper.

I love the Viper, just don't find it fair it to be put under the same category as the ZR1 with the 'hardcore' treatment it recieved.

cheers :cheers:

[vlcalais8]

You forgot to mention that the Viper had suspension alterations and aero adjustments which was not supplied out of the factory, not to mention its 'hardcore package' which eliminates 36kg of unnecessary features like radio, speakers, amplifier, trunk carpet, hood pad and tire inflator. They went as far as removing the front fog lights and replacing it with lightweight fillings.

I'd like to see the ZR1 get the same treatment, well at least the suspension tweaks and then we might see some 'accurate' results when compared with the Viper.

I love the Viper, just don't find it fair it to be put under the same category as the ZR1 with the 'hardcore' treatment it recieved.

cheers :cheers:

Thats fair enough but I wonder how the ZR-1's times would differ from bouncing off the limiter numerous times, dont forget how much time through out the whole lap that would of cost, more than enough to balance out the things you mention

[scharged]

Thats fair enough but I wonder how the ZR-1's times would differ from bouncing off the limiter numerous times, dont forget how much time through out the whole lap that would of cost, more than enough to balance out the things you mention


If I understood your comment right (correct me if I'm wrong), but you were referring to the amount of seconds/milliseconds the Viper could've shaved off if it wasn't fitted with the rev limiter?

I beg to differ as with the limiter the Viper gets an advantage hence why the team crew did this in the first place. Don't think that they would throw a limiter on their Viper to show people that it could've done better if it wasn't fitted with one.

Just think about it, the time it takes for any driver to shift up and accelerate more, shift down and decelerate more would be longer than if they were on the rev limiter. (I think this is why V8 Supercars are fitted with one?)
I've also found that excessive shifting upsets the cars balance thus costing a longer distance over time at high speeds, to settle out so that the driver can make his next smooth entry, exit into a turn.
Rev-limiters shouldn't necessarily be seen as a limitation of performance. :)

On another note, the gorgeous Viper received barely legal Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires whereas the ZR1 was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP tires. Not that it makes an outstanding difference, I'm aware.. just spotting out the differences google

The driver of the Viper drove flawlessly with minor if not no errors at all :goodjob:

[vlcalais8]

I think your missing the point, obviously the car is too short geared for the track and it still cracked the 7:22 which is pretty impressive and something that can't be argued with. And I don't mean to go into "change this and it will be faster" stuff just making a valid point. Its obvious that at some points the car was on the limiter for longer than required, plus if you watch it properly the driver hit the limiter on upshifts a few times which would definately lose valuable seconds (when competion is so close these days every second around Nurburgring is precious). Anyway lets imagine at one point hitting limiters made your car faster around the track, the ACR is still quicker around Nurburgring than porsche GT2, ZR1 and GTR so far plain and simple

[clubbie]

vlcalais8 is right. The viper is faster and uglier than all the cars mentioned.

[Martin_D]

Read Car and Driver Shootout where a heap of quick cars were put to the grinder including ZO6, GTR, and ACR. The ACR was faster on some tests than the other two, but instead of being a showroom floor press car the ACR came with a race track engineer who spent hours dialling in the setup for each test venue to make it perform. Pity purchasers dont get one of those things as well :)

"It just plants the power like the Corvette never can," said Gary. It must be said that the ACR was the only car that arrived with its own crew chief, who optimized the suspension settings for each venue. But that's consistent with the ACR's role as a street-legal track car."

"Our ACR had its warranty-voiding stickers removed from its fully adjustable suspension. The car came with a factory engineer (who is not part of the $98,110 purchase price). He made adjustments on the fly that clearly gave the Viper an advantage."

[LSX-438]

Tuna have you had a look a the oil system on the R35 yet? I read somewhere it's good for 1.6g of lateral load. Some kind of hybrid wet/dry system. Have you had a chance to test it and/or seen any surge issues whatesoever?

[vlcalais8]

I think thats great the car comes with fully adjustable suspension seeing as most serious track racers pay big bucks to fit thier cars with adjustable gear so they can extract the most from thier machines, not sure if the GTR/ZR-1 have this gear? If not then they should, if so then why wouldnt you use it to make the most out of it. Im sure both GTR and ZR-1 will recieve freshen ups or more serious models and when they break the 7:20 mark good luck to them. If they are capable of that then they deserve all the credit in the world for being the fastest around the ring (than direct competition). Once again all 3 are serious machines and If I'd have to choose between one it would be a hard pick

[SV346]

They are all pretty incredible cars, but as always the japs have been proven bs artists over the years and i severely doubt that the datto could genuinely beat the porsche in street/showroom trim, its weight will destroy it over time. Good on the vette it sounds f.n awesome :)
I dont believe the japanese car makers and the chinese especially deserve to be where they are these days, they have always made deals with other companies over the years taken their knowledge and screwed them over. Take note this is a very generalised comment of course but i will never support the japs or chinese in anything as they have more than proved themselves not worthy of it.

[scharged]

I think your missing the point, obviously the car is too short geared for the track and it still cracked the 7:22 which is pretty impressive and something that can't be argued with. And I don't mean to go into "change this and it will be faster" stuff just making a valid point. Its obvious that at some points the car was on the limiter for longer than required, plus if you watch it properly the driver hit the limiter on upshifts a few times which would definately lose valuable seconds (when competion is so close these days every second around Nurburgring is precious). Anyway lets imagine at one point hitting limiters made your car faster around the track, the ACR is still quicker around Nurburgring than porsche GT2, ZR1 and GTR so far plain and simple

Fair enough mate, I'm not questioning the Vipers performance in anyway, if it can pull a better time then good on it, it's a great muscle car. I'm not arguing the Viper's lap time nor am I refusing the fact that 7:22 is a bloody good time for a muscle car that demands extreme skill especially when driven without the hi-tech computers like the Evo's are running that correct most of the drivers mistakes.
Though I still can't help but think why the hell the Viper's crew would make the mistake with the too-short gears that you think is an obvious error in modifications.

The question must be asked why and how can the Viper's crew (which also included a race track engineer as Street_Tuna mentioned) can be so skilled and determined enough where they would "..spend hours dialing in the setup for each test venue to make it perform."-(Again mentioned by Street_Tuna), and yet make such an obvious and costly mistake with tuning the gears too short. Not to mention the "crew chief, who optimized the suspension settings for each venue".
Just doesn't add up for me :confused:


Someone care to put some light on this?



I think thats great the car comes with fully adjustable suspension seeing as most serious track racers pay big bucks to fit thier cars with adjustable gear so they can extract the most from thier machines, not sure if the GTR/ZR-1 have this gear? If not then they should, if so then why wouldnt you use it to make the most out of it.
The ZR1 doesn't which is why I made my first point earlier. The ZR1 has the Magnetic Selective Ride Control (MSRC) suspension system. The shocks are automatically adjusted based on driving conditions and vehicle dynamics (cornering, braking, etc). They do aid in performance automatically when needed but not to the extent as being fully adjustable to a optimal desired setting like the ACR :soap: (Correct me if I'm wrong)


I dont believe the japanese car makers and the chinese especially deserve to be where they are these days, they have always made deals with other companies over the years taken their knowledge and screwed them over.
I thought we got them back when we threw LSX blocks into their RX7's :flipoff:
They must be pissed why they didn't think of it in the first place. Its shit loads better. :yahoo:

[vlcalais8]

Fair enough mate, I'm not questioning the Vipers performance in anyway, if it can pull a better time then good on it, it's a great muscle car. I'm not arguing the Viper's lap time nor am I refusing the fact that 7:22 is a bloody good time for a muscle car that demands extreme skill especially when driven without the hi-tech computers like the Evo's are running that correct most of the drivers mistakes.
Though I still can't help but think why the hell the Viper's crew would make the mistake with the too-short gears that you think is an obvious error in modifications.

The question must be asked why and how can the Viper's crew (which also included a race track engineer as Street_Tuna mentioned) can be so skilled and determined enough where they would "..spend hours dialing in the setup for each test venue to make it perform."-(Again mentioned by Street_Tuna), and yet make such an obvious and costly mistake with tuning the gears too short. Not to mention the "crew chief, who optimized the suspension settings for each venue".
Just doesn't add up for me :confused:


Someone care to put some light on this?



The ZR1 doesn't which is why I made my first point earlier. The ZR1 has the Magnetic Selective Ride Control (MSRC) suspension system. The shocks are automatically adjusted based on driving conditions and vehicle dynamics (cornering, braking, etc). They do aid in performance automatically when needed but not to the extent as being fully adjustable to a optimal desired setting like the ACR :soap: (Correct me if I'm wrong)


I thought we got them back when we threw LSX blocks into their RX7's :flipoff:
They must be pissed why they didn't think of it in the first place. Its shit loads better. :yahoo:


good question there, maybe Dodges intentions were'nt fully based on setting fastest laps around Nurburging?? hence the shorter gearing they wacked in the thing for the shorter more common type race track. Obviously this is also a set ratio from factory which cant be changed otherwise the whole quickest lap time/factory spec car goes out the window. Its abit like the F6 issue, FPV go chuck on 245 tires all round :weirdo: which affects overall performance. Both things leave you thinking wtf but what can ya do.

[scharged]

good question there, maybe Dodges intentions were'nt fully based on setting fastest laps around Nurburging?? hence the shorter gearing they wacked in the thing for the shorter more common type race track. Obviously this is also a set ratio from factory which cant be changed otherwise the whole quickest lap time/factory spec car goes out the window. Its abit like the F6 issue, FPV go chuck on 245 tires all round :weirdo: which affects overall performance. Both things leave you thinking wtf but what can ya do.

Good point there, love the F6 example :rofl:

[Excellent]

Just reading a few forums of late. Quite a few GTR owners are not too happy with their street weapons. Apparently. :bawl:

[Martin_D]

Carrying on like this either Nissan or Porsche (both?) will be joining this forum soon -
Nissan offer Porsche driving lessons - http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/nissan_answers_porsche_cheat_claim_gtr/

[Holden Man]

Carrying on like this either Nissan or Porsche (both?) will be joining this forum soon -
Nissan offer Porsche driving lessons - http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/nissan_answers_porsche_cheat_claim_gtr/

haha
"And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R."

- well done Nissan for sticking up for yourselves and not being bullied by Porsche. (this could end up backfiring on Porsche)

[GODSMACK]

Just reading a few forums of late. Quite a few GTR owners are not too happy with their street weapons. Apparently. :bawl: Not too happy in what way???? Please feel free to elaborate...

[Martin_D]

haha
"And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R."
- well done Nissan for sticking up for yourselves and not being bullied by Porsche. (this could end up backfiring on Porsche)

It already has....I dont think there has been an independent test anywhere in the world where the 997TT has been able to keep pace on any track, strip, etc. with GTR...

[Excellent]

It already has....I dont think there has been an independent test anywhere in the world where the 997TT has been able to keep pace on any track, strip, etc. with GTR...

The difference being that Porsche ordered a customer car and used that to lap the Nurburgring.

All GTR tests so far have been with cars supplied by Nissan.

To answer GODSMACK's question, the transmission appears to be a weak link. And $20K US to replace. Link (http://jalopnik.com/5061221/gt+r-owner-busts-tranny-using-launch-control-nissan-claims-issue-not-covered-under-warranty)

[Holden Man]

It already has....I dont think there has been an independent test anywhere in the world where the 997TT has been able to keep pace on any track, strip, etc. with GTR...

Most reviews I've read also put the GTR ahead. (some reviews almost have them as line ball though)

Porsche has been beaten fair and square, thier much loved Expensive Twin Turbo has been taken down and all they can do is say "vhat, they vust be cheating!"

[Freaky]

Most reviews I've read also put the GTR ahead. (some reviews almost have them as line ball though)

Porsche has been beaten fair and square, thier much loved Expensive Twin Turbo has been taken down and all they can do is say "vhat, they vust be cheating!"

I bet over an endurance run the porsche would outlast a GTR, it seems there is afew weak points emerging with the GTR, thats why it has come in at the pricepoint it has, maybe a tad underdeveloped.

[Holden Man]

I bet over an endurance run the porsche would outlast a GTR, it seems there is afew weak points emerging with the GTR, thats why it has come in at the pricepoint it has, maybe a tad underdeveloped.

Good point, maybe buy a spare GTR (just in case) with the $200,000 change you would have left over from not buying the Porsche.

(I do know what you mean though :), just being a smarty pants)

[nang3]

Good point, maybe buy a spare GTR (just in case) with the $200,000 change you would have left over from not buying the Porsche.

(I do know what you mean though :), just being a smarty pants)

or 7 gearboxes @ $20k ea + an R8/F6 for a daily !

[Vulture]

It already has....I dont think there has been an independent test anywhere in the world where the 997TT has been able to keep pace on any track, strip, etc. with GTR...

I think it is fair to say it is making a fair whack more than the quoted output if it is both heavier and making less torque than the Porsche on paper?

[payaya]

If I understood your comment right (correct me if I'm wrong), but you were referring to the amount of seconds/milliseconds the Viper could've shaved off if it wasn't fitted with the rev limiter?

I beg to differ as with the limiter the Viper gets an advantage hence why the team crew did this in the first place. Don't think that they would throw a limiter on their Viper to show people that it could've done better if it wasn't fitted with one.

Just think about it, the time it takes for any driver to shift up and accelerate more, shift down and decelerate more would be longer than if they were on the rev limiter. (I think this is why V8 Supercars are fitted with one?)
I've also found that excessive shifting upsets the cars balance thus costing a longer distance over time at high speeds, to settle out so that the driver can make his next smooth entry, exit into a turn.
Rev-limiters shouldn't necessarily be seen as a limitation of performance. :)

On another note, the gorgeous Viper received barely legal Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires whereas the ZR1 was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP tires. Not that it makes an outstanding difference, I'm aware.. just spotting out the differences google

The driver of the Viper drove flawlessly with minor if not no errors at all :goodjob:

What the hell are you talking about? Correct me if im wrong (post is too long only had a quick read) the GTR comes standard with 180 kmh speed restrictor, not refering to the rev limiter.

All cars are fitted with rev limiters to protect the engine from over reving! The GTR has gone, the Vett has one. V8 supercars have rev limiters not due to protecting the engines but to keep development costs down just like F1. Having the vehicle limited to 180 is a massive issue. Considering the average lap time around the ring is about 160km/h having a 180kmh restrictor will literally cost you a few minutes.

The GTR has a seemless shift box so no delays between shifts.


Sounds like he was dodging the question there. The fact remains there is no way a car weighing as much as the new GTR weighs with the power quoted can get any where near the times quoted at the ring. And times quoted by Porsche are probably much more realistic.

Your just taking into consideration power & weight. How about the GTRs low drag co-efficient, smart are crap drive train and its brilliant transmission???

[SHANESVZSS]

HAHA just read this on car sales..

Learn how to drive, says Nissan to Porsche (October 2008)
Words - Gautam Sharma
Japanese carmaker hits back as Porsche questions credibility of GT-R's 7min 29sec lap of Nurburgring

The Nurburgring bragging rights war is beginning to turn nasty, with Porsche and Nissan embroiled in a slanging match over the latter's claim earlier this year that it had clocked a blistering 7min 29sec lap of the 'Ring in a showroom-spec GT-R.

Porsche opened fire last month by saying there was no way in (the green) hell that a GT-R could have accomplished that time without semi-slick racing tyres and various other mods.

To back up this assertion, Porsche 911 product chief August Achleitner admitted the German sports car specialist had even purchased a GT-R to see if the feat was achievable, but said a 7min 54sec lap was the best they could squeeze out of the Jap supercar.

Nissan has obviously taken offence at Porsche's insinuation and the company has since fired back, suggesting the Zuffenhausen boffins must have neither properly run-in the GT-R, nor learned how to extract the most from its AWD system.

The Japanese carmaker insists the benchmark-setting Godzilla was on standard Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT rubber and has even invited anyone curious enough to go and see the hoops for themselves at Sumitomo Rubber Industries in Japan.

What's more, Nissan says that rather then being doctored, the GT-R used for the Nurburgring run was in fact weighed down by 50kg of telemetry gear.

It gets better though, as Nissan has also offered to give any interested carmakers lessons on how to extract the GT-R's full potential, which is probably a nice way of saying Porsche's driver didn't really know what he was doing.

"We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation," said Nissan in a statement.

"We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Hmmm... there's probably more to come in this saga. Meanwhile, you can amuse yourself by clicking here to view the official footage of Godzilla's 7min 29sec lap.

To comment on this article click here







Published : Tuesday, 14 October 2008

[Excellent]

Nissan have temporarily suspended taking orders for the Japan-spec GTR. No reason given.

[Freaky]

Nissan have temporarily suspended taking orders for the Japan-spec GTR. No reason given.

wow. source ?

[team illucid]

wow. source ?

:google: .

[Martin_D]

Its a sign of the times unfortunately, and the same fate thats come to the ZR1 with both GTR and Corvette having their production halted due to massive raw material cost rises and the inability to pass it onto the customer due to fixed price contracts :eek:
In other words its cheaper to wait it out and not make the car than it is to cop a loss on each one :)

This is where its better to buy something like a GT2 Porsche, as in the $300,000 extra on top of the GTR they can surely absorb another $30,000 in fixed costs without any production hold up whatsoever :cool:

[korrupt]

Autoblog had some info up about the lap and tires. (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/nissan-offers-more-evidence-of-gt-r-ring-run-second-video-and/)

Also had an article about a dude who busted his transmission and Nissan won't cover it because he switched off the VDC. (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/carsumer-advocacy-nissan-refuses-to-replace-gt-r-owners-busted/)

[FireArc]

Who would have thought that a company such as Porsche would be using a Nissan as a benchmark. No offence to the Nissan fans intended, i just think that that in itself is worthy of a pat on the back for Nissan

[Holden Man]

This image has been popping up on a few US forums. It is from the R35 GTR owners manual and they are asking why it has 7 different windows/spots to keep record any of replaced transmissions. :confused:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc310/HoldenMan_2007/GTRmanual.jpg

I hope they havn't made them too fragile!

RE: Top Gear Aus last night / Did anyone hear them say that Porsche tried to buy spares from Nissan after breaking bits on the GTR they purchased and Nissan told them to nick off !

[M&Ms]

RE: Top Gear Aus last night / Did anyone hear them say that Porsche tried to buy spares from Nissan after breaking bits on the GTR they purchased and Nissan told them to nick off !

Is this just a case of "you get what you pay for"

Reading that article about the owner with the busted gearbox (and $20k bill), how can nissan (and GTR testers at that) brag on and on about how the GTR can pull an 11 second quarter mile, yet when you drive it like that (which you'd assume is the intent, what with all the advertising), the thing goes "KOBLAMOO"
Datsun quality has returned, better watch out for the rust bubbles!
I actually enjoyed Nissan releasing this car (and stood by it at the Adelaide motor show in April admiring it!), but Nissan makes their performance claims, yet within only a few months of launch we have heard plenty of negative comments towards it (from owners and the opposition!)

[CarlFST60L]

Is this just a case of "you get what you pay for"

Reading that article about the owner with the busted gearbox (and $20k bill), how can nissan (and GTR testers at that) brag on and on about how the GTR can pull an 11 second quarter mile, yet when you drive it like that (which you'd assume is the intent, what with all the advertising), the thing goes "KOBLAMOO"
Datsun quality has returned, better watch out for the rust bubbles!

Maybe you should do some research on what you 'assume' is reliable, you might be surprised how that many high performance exotics have multiple engine and gear box failures. Although, I hope the R35 is a step up from their previous quality.

[Martin_D]

In fact Ferrari had so many transmission failures in the US with Launch Control they promptly removed it....game over :)
Still who wouldnt want a car, any car, as reliable as a Datto 1200/1600 :bow:

[CarlFST60L]

Still who wouldnt want a car, any car, as reliable as a Datto 1200/1600 :bow:

Out of all our paddock bashers, the most reliable, and quickest around the short coarse, was a datto ute :bow:

It was a sad day when we blew the font end out head on into a tree at
70km/h :bawl:

[deverson1]

http://www.motorauthority.com/video/nissan-releases-second-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-time-video.html

Check this site out.
Not sure if anyone has seen this footage yet.
seems fast to me.

[skip100]

Another result to add to the list:
Wheels Nov 08
GT-R: 1:14.7
GT2: 1:16.3

And the F6 completed the lap too. ;^)

Greg.

[The_Plague]

I think the times around The Ring are really only relevant if you are going to drive the car around the ****ing ring.
Considering that 99.999999999999% of the people that buy them wont, its a moot point.

I've never had any prick come up to me and tell me my clubsport hasn't posted a formidable time around the ring.

As for the whole Porsche Vs GTR debate, its a matter of choice for the individual.

Although as Mr Donnon pointed out recently I believe, you can't **** with the GTR without it crackign the shits, whereas a GM product you are free to **** with till your hearts content and the car will still run properly.

Tuna, what do you think one of your TT'd LS3 creations could pull around the ring if it had the driveline to do it?


This image has been popping up on a few US forums. It is from the R35 GTR owners manual and they are asking why it has 7 different windows/spots to keep record any of replaced transmissions. :confused:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc310/HoldenMan_2007/GTRmanual.jpg

I hope they havn't made them too fragile!

RE: Top Gear Aus last night / Did anyone hear them say that Porsche tried to buy spares from Nissan after breaking bits on the GTR they purchased and Nissan told them to nick off !

ouch!
I'd be a bit ****ing worried if a car came with a book like that, that;s almost like conceeding "yes yes yes, our car hammers, BUT, and just a tiny BUT, you are gonna throw a tranny................................... annually....................... maybe more, unless you baby it, but then again you didn't buy it for that".