Recommend: VYII S or VZ Calais.

[RSK]

Will be buying my first real car over the next few months and have narrowed it down to these three.

I really want a black VZ Calais with cream leather trim but have not got rid of the idea of buying a VYII S. Overall, what is the better car? Or does it come down to preference?

Also, just a few questions:
1) How much would ultralows in the rear and superlows in the front cost?
2) What exhaust would be recommend? I want a decent sounding exhaust but have heard i will never get the VZ to sound like a VY.

[VZ_V8]

are you looking at V8s or V6s???

[macca_779]

Pretty straight forward comparison really. VZ Calais for the win as its a newer model and has shit load more fruit in it.

[RSK]

Looking at V6's.

Plans for the Calais would be lowered, tinted windows, exhaust, 20s and spend some decent money on a sound system (including in-dash DVD and DD subs).

[planetdavo]

A VY2 S has to be a fair bit cheaper than a VZ Calais, so it really gets down to (a) your budget, (b) what you get for the price, and (c) what looks better to you.
Why not a VY2 Calais, and put the money saved toward the mods? VY2 Calais already gained the sportier look like VZ got, and since you are binning half the car anyway, things like wheels, suspension etc don't really come into it.

[`redoctober]

If money is not your concern, the VZ Calais is easily 10 times better than the VYII S.

For one; even the VYII Calais is way above the VYII S. For two; it's a series above it as well as a model class above.

Get the cream leather, climate control and all the goodies and you won't regret it :)

[RSK]

Will have around $25,000 to spend. So, if i get a VZ Calais i will have less than $5,000 for initial mods. Might have a look at some VYII Calais.

[lowriding]

do your research and 25k would get you a VE Calais :bawl:

I have always liked the VY2 and VZ Calais in most colours , very sharp looking cars .

[RSK]

do your research and 25k would get you a VE Calais :bawl:

I have always liked the VY2 and VZ Calais in most colours , very sharp looking cars .

VE Calais for $25,000?

[lowriding]

VE Calais for $25,000?

sadly its the way of the day as they say !

[The-V8-Power]

RSK I found a fair few for around the 25-30K mark:

Phantom: http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?R=6366389&keywords=VE&Model=CALAIS&__Ntk=CarAll&State=New%20South%20Wales&__Nne=20&__Dx=mode%20matchany&Make=HOLDEN&__No=0&Region=State%20Wide&__D=VE&seot=0&silo=1000&RegionID=785&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&__sid=11AF444EE041&state_id=898&__N=4294965857%20898%20834%20258%20287%20285%20121 6%204294965739%20785&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Price_Dec imal%7c0&distance=25&Cr=9&__Ntt=VE&trecs=95&__Qpb=true

Phantom: http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?R=6387930&keywords=VE&Model=CALAIS&__Ntk=CarAll&State=New%20South%20Wales&__Nne=20&__Dx=mode%20matchany&Make=HOLDEN&__No=0&Region=State%20Wide&__D=VE&seot=0&silo=1000&RegionID=785&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&__sid=11AF444EE041&state_id=898&__N=4294965857%20898%20834%20258%20287%20285%20121 6%204294965739%20785&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Price_Dec imal%7c0&distance=25&Cr=17&__Ntt=VE&trecs=95&__Qpb=true

White: http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?R=6248236&keywords=VE&Model=CALAIS&__Ntk=CarAll&State=New%20South%20Wales&__Nne=20&__Dx=mode%20matchany&Make=HOLDEN&__No=0&Region=State%20Wide&__D=VE&seot=0&silo=1000&RegionID=785&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&__sid=11AF444EE041&state_id=898&__N=4294965857%20898%20834%20258%20287%20285%20121 6%204294965739%20785&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Price_Dec imal%7c0&distance=25&Cr=10&__Ntt=VE&trecs=95&__Qpb=true

Silver: http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?R=6274163&keywords=VE&Model=CALAIS&__Ntk=CarAll&State=New%20South%20Wales&__Nne=20&__Dx=mode%20matchany&Make=HOLDEN&__No=0&Region=State%20Wide&__D=VE&seot=0&silo=1000&RegionID=785&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&__sid=11AF444EE041&state_id=898&__N=4294965857%20898%20834%20258%20287%20285%20121 6%204294965739%20785&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Price_Dec imal%7c0&distance=25&Cr=1&__Ntt=VE&trecs=95&__Qpb=true

Evoke: http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?R=6397904&keywords=VE&Model=CALAIS&__Ntk=CarAll&State=New%20South%20Wales&__Nne=20&__Dx=mode%20matchany&Make=HOLDEN&__No=0&Region=State%20Wide&__D=VE&seot=0&silo=1000&RegionID=785&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&__sid=11AF444EE041&state_id=898&__N=4294965857%20898%20834%20258%20287%20285%20121 6%204294965739%20785&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Price_Dec imal%7c0&distance=25&Cr=19&__Ntt=VE&trecs=95&__Qpb=true

[lowriding]

and if you want the Ford Ghia equivalent just bring breadcumbs and pebbles . Mind you all are affected at the moment ,including everyones favorite resale "myth" Toyota whos Aurion grande are worth even less than the local pair

[redvxr8clubby]

Could even consider VYII Berlina, has climate control and Calais fog lights, a saving on the Calais, a number of them have leather also, but a black one with cream leather might be a tall order.

[RSK]

Thanks for the research into VE Calais. But getting to $25,000 may be a stretch alone so doubt i can afford them. Yeah, i was thinking about VYII Berlinas with a kit. Think it would look tidy and would save some money for immediate mods. This is basically what i'm after. Just not buying until fleet car lease ends.

Really like the contrast of black and cream leather.

http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?__Ntk=CarAll&__D=vz&__Dx=mode+matchany&seot=0&Cr=3&state_id=0&keywords=vz&State=All%20States&__N=4294965857+0+1216+834+285+257+413+4294965739&silo=1003&distance=25&R=6195586&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCo unt_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&__Ntt=vz&trecs=46&__Nne=20&__Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&PriceMax=25000&__sid=11CA8C0A3DA0&Model=CALAIS&Make=HOLDEN

http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HOLDEN/CALAIS/details.aspx?__Ntk=CarAll&__D=vz&__Dx=mode+matchany&seot=0&Cr=4&state_id=0&keywords=vz&State=All%20States&__N=4294965857+0+1216+834+285+257+413+4294965739&silo=1003&distance=25&R=6394123&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCo unt_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&__Ntt=vz&trecs=46&__Nne=20&__Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&PriceMax=25000&__sid=11CA8C0A3DA0&Model=CALAIS&Make=HOLDEN

[SCiFiRE]

VZ Calais is one of my favorite looking cars of recent years. The taillights, wheels and kit all just fit together so well, theres not a single angle that car looks bad in. love it.

[RSK]

VZ Calais is one of my favorite looking cars of recent years. The taillights, wheels and kit all just fit together so well, theres not a single angle that car looks bad in. love it.

Couldn't agree more. Absolutely love how the car looks. Can't wait to give one a drive and see how it goes.

[macca_779]

Couldn't agree more. Absolutely love how the car looks. Can't wait to give one a drive and see how it goes.

The 6's are very bland mate. Even though they are quoted at 190kw if you've driven any Holden V8 made in the last 20 years you may be a bit disappointed.

[RSK]

The 6's are very bland mate. Even though they are quoted at 190kw if you've driven any Holden V8 made in the last 20 years you may be a bit disappointed.

I actually haven't. I'm only 20. On a long-term basis, i've only driven a WH Statesmen, 2006 Mitsubishi Magna and currently drive a 2008 ES Lancer.

So, it will be a huge upgrade by the current car.

[planetdavo]

I actually haven't. I'm only 20. On a long-term basis, i've only driven a WH Statesmen, 2006 Mitsubishi Magna and currently drive a 2008 ES Lancer.

So, it will be a huge upgrade by the current car.
A VZ High Output goes as hard as a 10 year old VT V8 5 litre, just without the sound, so they aren't that bad.

[RSK]

A VZ High Output goes as hard as a 10 year old VT V8 5 litre, just without the sound, so they aren't that bad.

What about the VZ SV6? Any good? Or, VZ Calais supercharged?

[macca_779]

What about the VZ SV6? Any good? Or, VZ Calais supercharged?

There were no supercharged models in the VZ. The Alloyanchor V6 replaced the ECOTECH and there has been no supercharged model since.

A VY Calais SC V6 is actually quite a nice car and engine combo. I actually prefer that over the newer V6 as its power is alot more usable and it rapes the newer V6 for torque delivery.

[RSK]

There were no supercharged models in the VZ. The Alloyanchor V6 replaced the ECOTECH and there has been no supercharged model since.

A VY Calais SC V6 is actually quite a nice car and engine combo. I actually prefer that over the newer V6 as its power is alot more usable and it rapes the newer V6 for torque delivery.

Okay. I've narrowed it down to either a VYII Calais or VZ Calais. Might have to drive each of them before i decide but.

[`redoctober]

A VY Calais SC V6 is actually quite a nice car and engine combo. I actually prefer that over the newer V6 as its power is alot more usable and it rapes the newer V6 for torque delivery.

I wouldn't say "rape" is the correct word. The torque naturally is more, but having raced my friends S/C VYII Calais, I can say that while the S/C V6 is SLIGHTLY quicker off the line, the Alloytec is soon to catch it and find it's way past the Ecotec.

[macca_779]

I wouldn't say "rape" is the correct word. The torque naturally is more, but having raced my friends S/C VYII Calais, I can say that while the S/C V6 is SLIGHTLY quicker off the line, the Alloytec is soon to catch it and find it's way past the Ecotec.

Stop talking out your arse red. A VZ 190 alloyanchor may and I mean may be able to take it up to a SC V6. But there is no chance in hell that the heaviest of all the VE Sedans is going to stand a chance.. Next you'll be saying that your car is quicker than an FG Falcon.

[`redoctober]

Stop talking out your arse red. A VZ 190 alloyanchor may and I mean may be able to take it up to a SC V6. But there is no chance in hell that the heaviest of all the VE Sedans is going to stand a chance.. Next you'll be saying that your car is quicker than an FG Falcon.

Macca, you can believe what you want but your vendetta against the Alloytec won't change what I've said. I have been behind the wheel of my alloytec against my mates S/C VYII Calais (also a great car) and have come off best. I agreed that it has more pull at the beginning, but it certainly does not "rape" the alloytec.

Stick to your LS1's if you have no real life experience in the matter.

-Rob.

[macca_779]

Macca, you can believe what you want but your vendetta against the Alloytec won't change what I've said. I have been behind the wheel of my alloytec against my mates S/C VYII Calais (also a great car) and have come off best. I agreed that it has more pull at the beginning, but it certainly does not "rape" the alloytec.

Stick to your LS1's if you have no real life experience in the matter.

-Rob.

Mate I've driven plenty of Holden V6's in my time. Alot more than you have I'm sure. Yes I do have a hatred for the Alloyanchor.. There is a good reason for that though.. Its a Piece of Shit. You saying that your VE is quicker than a Blown VY just makes you look stupid.. Unless of course your mates car is rooted might explain why u pipped him.

[255-LS1]

blown v6 is the most over rated piece of shit, they drink more than an LS1 under most conditions and arn't really that inspiring (my mate had a charged vt s), stick to alloytec if you dont car about performance. get ls1 and live with it if you care about performance.

[macca_779]

blown v6 is the most over rated piece of shit, they drink more than an LS1 under most conditions and arn't really that inspiring (my mate had a charged vt s), stick to alloytec if you dont car about performance. get ls1 and live with it if you care about performance.

OMG here comes Red's High School Possie. You guys really need to get some time up.
But I will agree that Holden has never released a PERFORMANCE 6 in the last 20 years. Hence IMO if you have to have a 6 due to licence, lease or what ever restrictions and actually want a car with a hint of performance.. Buy a Falcon.

[255-LS1]

nah no possie mate just stating the facts that holdens 6's are all shit, im glad you agree. falcon 6 is better yes, kept up with my 308 alright but the car could be a little lighter thou, they are a tad podgy.

[RSK]

I get my blacks soon so can drive a V8. But, then there is the issue of fuel and insurance...

Scrap that. It would cost be $2,300 more a year for V8 just in insurance. 6 it is.

[zaim]

I asked the same question here with my purchase.. it was either a VE SV6, or a VZ Calais..... And I went with the calais and don't regret it at all!! It's such an amazing car.. very cruisy, relaxed, and quiet inside! Black leather..mmmm

http://i38.tinypic.com/14tbtix.jpg

here she is

[RSK]

I asked the same question here with my purchase.. it was either a VE SV6, or a VZ Calais..... And I went with the calais and don't regret it at all!! It's such an amazing car.. very cruisy, relaxed, and quiet inside! Black leather..mmmm

http://i38.tinypic.com/14tbtix.jpg

here she is

Very tidy. I love it. Can you post some photos of the interior? I hear the black leather is prone to wear and tear...

[VTV691]

For 25k I would buy a Monaro..:) mmm..mmnnnrooo..

Unless u need 4 door car.. :)

[Ewok]

Have to agree with you on red. I previously owned a VS 3.8l ecobox and now own a 3.6l alloyancher in the SV6 variant, as macca so lovingly describers it (hater), and I know for a fact, that 3.8l ecoboxes don't stand a chance. No, seriously, they don't stand a chance. The SAME motor as was in my VS is in the VT, VX, and VY, nothing really changed. Just the chassis got heavier. The more power in the VZ which is pretty much the same weight as the VY is much better overall.

However if you want to talk power for an S/C SV6 however, go and have a look for Impulsevsv6. Few mods here and there and then BAM, supercharger, 280+ rwhp. Nice.

I WILL however agree with macca and say that even an S/C commodore 6 is NOT a performance car. I will be looking at going LS1 after my wedding next year (if you want an anchor of a different kind, thats how you do it :D ), and that believeing that an N/A 6 could beat S/C / blown 6, ya crazy mate! IMO your mates car needs a good tune.

[zaim]

Very tidy. I love it. Can you post some photos of the interior? I hear the black leather is prone to wear and tear...

I'll post some pics tomorrow of the interior, as I'm getting my bumper resprayed.

but the car is over 3 years old and the black leather is still as new...

[Ewok]

Nice work dude :) Congrats on your new purchase. Drives better than the VE barge doesn't it? (V8's are the only decent VE's as they have the power to push the weight around effectively... or at all :D )

[`redoctober]

and that believeing that an N/A 6 could beat S/C / blown 6, ya crazy mate! IMO your mates car needs a good tune.

It beat me off the line with torque and for a while he was infront but eventually (and I do mean EVENTUALLY) the Alloytec pulled past.

I'm not saying I got the jump and mauled it, I'm saying in the end the Alloytec pulled past the S/C Eco.

[Roonstain]

remember guys, red is talking bout a factory supercharged donk - L67, and i am assuming with stock boost etc
in factory form, it isnt that amazing (i know, as i drove one for a couple of years)
but true, lots of potential in them for not much $$$

i do not know why people bad mouth the alloytec and the VE so much
it is not trying to be a sports car, but i am happy with the performance vs economy that my 3.6L gives
and they do gain quite a bit with the mods ive got (otr, dual 2.25 inch [ala SV6], mufflers and maf tune)

i would say that my car would pip the l67 that i drove by a little, but it feels much more stable and safe at higher speeds

in the end, its apples and oranges lads!

[mickeyVX350]

I like the Alloytec, and I sure have been around a while and had a lot of sixes (and am not brand loyal)

I prefer the alloytec to the Ford I6, and for as much as people hated the buick 3.8 it had some stick in the VN's.

[Ewok]

Completely agree with the stability and power/efficiency points you raise there Roonstain. For me in the VS Ute, it felt very stable at high speeds anywhere up to about 170 and then started to float a little past that, it was lowered and had a few mods to it too. However I have had my SV6 up just over the 200kph mark and it wasn't the least bit off balance or floaty at all. Felt solid and held confidence.

The reason I don't particularly like the VE sedan is just that they are too wide and bulky for my liking. I became very familiar with my VS ute's size and weight and then transferring from that into the SV6 wasn't a huge difference at all. Fair enough I went from ute to sedan, but the body dimensions in itself are very comparative. However the ute was a tad lower when seated in the car, the SV6 feels pretty bloody close to how low the ute was. Having said that, the VE utes I really like, however they are a little "truck" like, being that me mate Karl (aka bombaman) has a VE SV6 ute with stock ride height and my SV6 sedan is stock ride height also and yet he sits a great deal higher than me (even with his seat lowered into the floor). As stated by many a people, it all comes down to personal preference, what one looks for in a car, what one is comfortable with and what one expects out of the car. For me I love the SV6 and the power it gives as I am not looking for V8 power at the moment, but having said THAT, the bug is starting to bite ...... :D

[255-LS1]

if this is going to turn into a shit fight about which 6 is the quickest then ill play my card, toyota aurion, that will beat all of them no trouble at all. Has nayone driven one, **** me i was impressed, got a rental, flogged the shit out of it, it chirps like crazy, the only problem is it is front wheel drive and torque steers somehting cronic when you give it to it lol

[vecommo]

Stop talking out your arse red. A VZ 190 alloyanchor may and I mean may be able to take it up to a SC V6. But there is no chance in hell that the heaviest of all the VE Sedans is going to stand a chance.. Next you'll be saying that your car is quicker than an FG Falcon.


Why don't you change the record FFS.... Every time 'Alloytec' is mentioned you immediately jump in and start bagging the crap out of it while shoving your pro Ford I6 views in everybody's faces.

I have driven plenty of Alloytecs and can vouch that they are nowhere near as bad an engine as you are constantly making them out to be. I hired and extensively drove a VE Calais back in 2006 and a WM V6 in 07 and yes, they will hand a SC V6 and stock 5L their asses, I have witnessed it with my own eyes.

There are plenty of members here who own and are more than happy with their Alloytecs. If you don't like them, nobody's forcing you to buy one, but FFS if you have nothing constructive to say then crawl back under your rock and spare us all the misfortune of having to repetitively read the anti-Alloytec drivel that you keep subjecting us to.

[planetdavo]

Here here boys. Good to see people with plenty of real world experience adding their input, for, in the VE's case, the number one large car on the market.
Every motor has some negatives, something a certain anchorhead needs a lesson on, even the colossal cast iron block Ford motor...:teach:

[RSK]

Well i've settled for a VZ Calais. Hopefully black with cream leather.

What would be the best immediate way to make it a little better performance wise?

[macca_779]

Well i've settled for a VZ Calais. Hopefully black with cream leather.

What would be the best immediate way to make it a little better performance wise?

Don't bother mate. While gains can be had with them the cost of those gains is not cheap and they are minimal. I gather your pretty young so I advise you just leave it stock and wait to do mods when you evolve to owning an engine that responds well to mods.


Here here boys. Good to see people with plenty of real world experience adding their input, for, in the VE's case, the number one large car on the market.
Every motor has some negatives, something a certain anchorhead needs a lesson on, even the colossal cast iron block Ford motor...:teach:

Number 1 large car just means they sell the most.. Hardly means its the best, which everyone that has an idea including the journo's knows it isn't.. Holden can market cars well, thats why its the number 1 seller. Get some time up driving some euro models and you might realise that.

[RSK]

Don't bother mate. While gains can be had with them the cost of those gains is not cheap and they are minimal. I gather your pretty young so I advise you just leave it stock and wait to do mods when you evolve to owning an engine that responds well to mods.

Yeah. Only 20 so can't drive a turbo, supercharged or V8. Little annoying. I'll just keep it stock then and just make it visually appealing.

Thanks for all the help by the way. Interesting to see everyones different (and strong) opinions on the different engines.

But from what i gather, i doubt i will be complaining with the VZ Calais engine after driving a Magna then ES Lancer for so long.

[planetdavo]

Number 1 large car just means they sell the most.. Hardly means its the best, which everyone that has an idea including the journo's knows it isn't.. Holden can market cars well, thats why its the number 1 seller. Get some time up driving some euro models and you might realise that.
YET AGAIN, you just can't get it through your head that one car having a slightly better engine doesn't necessarily make it the "better" car to own...
More private buyers buy Commodore because they simply like them better, so if you think that makes them ignorant or whatever, perhaps it's time you have a very good look at what makes the car buying public happy. :teach:
All a few of us have been saying is that the Alloytec is superior to the Ecotec's, and are more than competitive to the competition's engines for most people. You're the one who incessantly flogs the old fella off about the Ford engine at any opportunity!
I also fail to see your direction re the Euro cars. At their price point, comparing a large rear wheel drive Euro car with a large Aussie car is vitually impossible for a similar price, as you can get a V8 Calais for much the same price as a basic 4 cyl 3 series BMW (which is much smaller anyway), and seriously, only a badge snob would consider the BMW "value" in that comparison for what you get.

[zaim]

Yeah. Only 20 so can't drive a turbo, supercharged or V8. Little annoying. I'll just keep it stock then and just make it visually appealing.

Thanks for all the help by the way. Interesting to see everyones different (and strong) opinions on the different engines.

But from what i gather, i doubt i will be complaining with the VZ Calais engine after driving a Magna then ES Lancer for so long.

Mate I thought I was gonna be disappointed with my VZ Calais 190kw engine after driving an ls1 for 5 months a couple years back, but the engine really isn't that bad! It's quick on the line and pretty responsive when in the right gear. It's a 5 speed auto, so in 3rd gear doing 100 and tramping it does gain speed pretty quick.. Just make sure to use some 95 or higher fuel (I use United 95 with ethanol) and you'll actuall notice some performance increases :)

congrats with your final decision mate, you won't be disappointed! The white leather and black car is gonna be o so sexy to the feel and eye!

i'll take some pics for you today as promised, as ill be picking up my car in an hour or so

[Ewok]

Congrats on the purchase mate :) You'll no doubt love the Alloytech motor in that as opposed to the old but true ecobox. I fill mine up with 98 Vortex from Caltex all the time and the car reacts really well to it, I usually average about 550-600kms per tank with city and highway driving.

Holden sell more cars per year because people trust them, enjoy the motor, enjoy the car itself, numbers don't lie. You can whinge and moan like a little bitch all you want but at the end of the day, it's the simple fact of numbers that will win hands down every time.

PS: I want a mini planetdavo ... :D

[zaim]

got my car back.. here are some pics of my interior if you're curious

http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110003t.jpg (http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110003.jpg)http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110004t.jpg (http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110004.jpg)http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110005t.jpg (http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110005.jpg)http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110006t.jpg (http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110006.jpg)http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110007t.jpg (http://www.zaimc.com/temp/car/PB110007.jpg)
click to see larger image

[RSK]

Nice interior. Very nice. I love the dash on the VZs. Can't wait to finally get one.

[planetdavo]

I want a mini planetdavo ... :D
I just came up from the workshop under my house, where I'm producing the moulds for them as we speak. Might take off for Christmas?...:rofl:

[`redoctober]

YET AGAIN, you just can't get it through your head that one car having a slightly better engine doesn't necessarily make it the "better" car to own...
More private buyers buy Commodore because they simply like them better, so if you think that makes them ignorant or whatever, perhaps it's time you have a very good look at what makes the car buying public happy. :teach:
All a few of us have been saying is that the Alloytec is superior to the Ecotec's, and are more than competitive to the competition's engines for most people. You're the one who incessantly flogs the old fella off about the Ford engine at any opportunity!
I also fail to see your direction re the Euro cars. At their price point, comparing a large rear wheel drive Euro car with a large Aussie car is vitually impossible for a similar price, as you can get a V8 Calais for much the same price as a basic 4 cyl 3 series BMW (which is much smaller anyway), and seriously, only a badge snob would consider the BMW "value" in that comparison for what you get.

Spot on mate! I agree with you 100%.

Holden's are bang for your buck when you compare them with European cars, I mean honestly what else apart from cashflow can justify the purchase of a $60,000 four cylinder go-kart with luxury bits? Badge snobs fail to see the benefits of each car for what they are, they usually just judge them according to who they're made by.

By the by, if the S/C Eco was so much faster and more fuel efficient, you would have thought they'd have continued it to the newer models. This isn't the case, the Ecotec is the predecessor to something much newer, more refined and overall; better.

If it was so much greater, would the engine have been succeeded? I don't think so.

-Rob.

[Ewok]

I just came up from the workshop under my house, where I'm producing the moulds for them as we speak. Might take off for Christmas?...:rofl:

WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vecommo]

YET AGAIN, you just can't get it through your head that one car having a slightly better engine doesn't necessarily make it the "better" car to own...
More private buyers buy Commodore because they simply like them better, so if you think that makes them ignorant or whatever, perhaps it's time you have a very good look at what makes the car buying public happy. :teach:
All a few of us have been saying is that the Alloytec is superior to the Ecotec's, and are more than competitive to the competition's engines for most people. You're the one who incessantly flogs the old fella off about the Ford engine at any opportunity!
I also fail to see your direction re the Euro cars. At their price point, comparing a large rear wheel drive Euro car with a large Aussie car is vitually impossible for a similar price, as you can get a V8 Calais for much the same price as a basic 4 cyl 3 series BMW (which is much smaller anyway), and seriously, only a badge snob would consider the BMW "value" in that comparison for what you get.


Well said, but you're talking to a brick wall. He's been constantly bleating the same garbage here and on other forums for as long as I can remember.
It is people like him that have given the Alloytec a bad reputation, which is unfortunate as it is a very well designed and engineered engine - you only have to look at the way it idles - still as a statue and barely audible, while the Ecotec and Ford I6 are ready to rock themselves loose from their mounts.
I also fail to understand how the Alloytec 195 can be labelled as 'slow'. From memory a VE SV6 recorded 15.2 in a magazine test. These are the sort of times V8 HSV's were putting out a little over a decade ago, keeping in mind that we are comparing a 1400kg VS to an 1800kg VE.
I think most people who own/have driven an Alloytec can see for themselves that most of the critisism is complete and utter rubbish and should be taken
with a grain of salt.

[255-LS1]

dam why the **** dont holden make a manual calais, loving that interior very classy

[macca_779]

Geesus I can wind up the Alloyanchor advocates. Anyone would think I was laying into a first born with the reactions given. Those that believe that the Holden V6 is a better jigger than those offered by Toyota or Ford are simply deluded IMO.

Of the 3 main alloyanchor advocates in this thread. 1 works at a Holden dealership as a parts interpreter so will be biased anyway. 1 is an 18 year old with bugger all experience in driving anything but mummy and daddy's cars and his own Alloyanchor. And 1 drives a VP V6. And who wouldn't think the alloyanchor is revolutionary compared to that. Its natural to defend what we own or follow.. But that doesn't make it correct.

Frankly its my opinion that the V6 is a piece of shit and if you don't like it :flipoff:. Yes that is a bit harsh in magnitude, but lets face FACTS. It is the worst V6 on the market in the large car segment.. That's not opinion, that is fact and is confirmed by every bloody motoring journo in the country.. There are just way to many one eyed Holden fans to see the forest through the trees sometimes.

To the OP. A VZ V6 Calais will be a nice car and you will enjoy it. It not a performance car by any means but will get you from a to b in style fine. The only admission I have is that if you wanted something with a little more stick then a VY Blown Calais would be a nice alternative and be cheaper to boot. Even if it isn't quicker than a VZ (which I dispute). A smaller Blower Pulley to overdrive the Supercharger is a very common mod and will cost bugger all.. This mod without any question of a doubt will hand a VZ V6 its arse royally.

Now besides engines and transmissions.. What are the main differences between VY and VZ Calais'? That's a genuine question as I am curious to know if there is any stand out differences and I'm sure the OP would like to know too.

[Ewok]

***YAWN*** doesn't this guy make you want to fall asleep? I got about half way through the inevitable reply of useless rhetoric and then had to wake myself up again. News flash slim, I guarantee that the alloytech is a better motor than fords current 6 in their FG's. The fact that XR6's are just XT's in bodykits is testament to just how much ford really don't give a shit about their NA V6 market, otherwise they would have done a lot more than they have in the past. It's just more of the same old same old. Oh, and I can ALSO guarantee that they are slower in a 0-100 sprint than a VZ SV6 from a standing start (I love freeway onramps and people who want a go...) As someone said in another thread, that number in the little red circle is a target.

But dude, seriously, if you love the ford's as much as you quit obviously do? Why the hell don't you sell your 10 year old commo and go buy one?

[zaim]

(I love freeway onramps and people who want a go...)

me too!

my alloytech190 motor can really move the car even with the added weight of leather seats and electrics!

[benniemc]

For 25k I would buy a Monaro..:) mmm..mmnnnrooo..

Unless u need 4 door car.. :)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-car/HOLDEN/MONARO/Queensland/csn6419488.aspx

$21k, 2003 V2 CV6 Monaro.....

If it were my money, I'd get a 2004 Subaru Liberty 2.0R.

Between the Holden's you've picked, i'd go the VZ.

[Ewok]

now THAT would chop an SV6 no worries ... heh. Would've probably bought something like that myself if they were around that price 4 months ago, but, I AM very happy with my car, theres plenty of time other cars down the track ...

[RSK]

I was busy all day yesterday and ended up going to my local Holden dealer at about 1.00am with some mates. They had a silver VZ Calais next to a white VYII Calais. Although the VYII shape is good, i instantly liked the VZ Calais more. Hopefully if i get time over the next week i will go back and see if i can take both the VZ and VYII for a test drive just to compare the two. I really want to sit in the cars and just get a feel for the two. For reference, both cars at done roughly 100,000ks and the VZ was at $26,990 and the VYII at $20,990.

Actually, would they let a P plater test drive a car?

[dmar]

vz calais - sydney
http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/vehicle/CP-03-05-Holden-Calais-VZ-Sedan-5-Seats/itemid-1-103040287/lotid-103104421

vy calais - newcastle
http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/vehicle/CP-08-03-Built-08-03-Holden-Calais-VY-II-Sedan-5-Seats/itemid-1-2081484/lotid-352023987


should check out pickles, bit hard if youre working though, most auctions are mid week. even harder if youre super keen, takes a bit of research/watching. you can give them a call and quote the lot number for a rough price theyre looking for, obviously goes down each week if unsold

they also have 5 vz sv6s in sydney atm

[Ewok]

Yeah they'll let you test it for sure. But DAMN!!! $27k for VZ Calais ??? Thats a ripoff dude. I picked up my VZ SV6 from Shacks in freo, only had 65k on the ODO, was fleet owned by Woodside and serviced on time EVERY time, bought it for $19,500. April 05' model too so SRS side airbags and LSD standard. I would seriously have a quick look around because that seems really bloody steep for a Calais

[benniemc]

Actually, would they let a P plater test drive a car?

Should do, I never had any issues test driving SS Como's when I was looking.

Some dealers may come with you though.

[RSK]

Yeah they'll let you test it for sure. But DAMN!!! $27k for VZ Calais ??? Thats a ripoff dude. I picked up my VZ SV6 from Shacks in freo, only had 65k on the ODO, was fleet owned by Woodside and serviced on time EVERY time, bought it for $19,500. April 05' model too so SRS side airbags and LSD standard. I would seriously have a quick look around because that seems really bloody steep for a Calais

Oh i know. I'm not looking at that specific car. Just wanted to see a VZ Calais in real life and get a feel for the car. I'll make them think i'm interested to get a test drive, but in no way want that specific car. I don't expect to pay more than $22,000 for a VZ Calais.

[DaveHAT]

I was busy all day yesterday and ended up going to my local Holden dealer at about 1.00am with some mates. They had a silver VZ Calais next to a white VYII Calais. Although the VYII shape is good, i instantly liked the VZ Calais more. Hopefully if i get time over the next week i will go back and see if i can take both the VZ and VYII for a test drive just to compare the two. I really want to sit in the cars and just get a feel for the two. For reference, both cars at done roughly 100,000ks and the VZ was at $26,990 and the VYII at $20,990.

Actually, would they let a P plater test drive a car?

If you pay $26990 for ANY car with 100000km on it you've got rocks in your head.

WALK AWAY ... regardless of whether they let you test drive it or not.

You'll generally find a better value car privately with less km on it. Unless stat warranty is a priority, focus your attention on the private market.

If you say you're getting your "black licence" shortly ... why dick around with V6s when you can get a V8 once fully licenced?

Patience grasshopper ... :goodjob:

[iloveholden]

The worst part of the alloytech cars is not the engine itself....its the 4 speed clunk gearbox attached to it imo.

I have a 175kw alloytech and yep it aint superfast but when its in the right gear especially up top it pulls ok (have had some minimal mods done e.g 2.5" twin exhaust)

It doesnt have the torque pull off the line of the older echotechs but up top after a good start an alloytech will win most of the time...i've been involved in simular situations to Red as he has explained.

They aint the greatest engine out but mine does the job for now until im a little older to purchase a V8 :bow:

[Ewok]

The 5spd auto is bloody brilliant in comparison, I know what you mean by the 4spd, same box that was in the VS and so forth wasn't it? Used to have a VS ute heh. The paddle shift I only use when coming down hills n stuff really, the novelty wore off with that but it can still be practical.

[RSK]

I think i might just wait until i am out of uni until i own a V8. For now a 6 will do. Any recommendations on what exhaust i should get to get it sounding alright?

[vecommo]

Geesus I can wind up the Alloyanchor advocates. Anyone would think I was laying into a first born with the reactions given. Those that believe that the Holden V6 is a better jigger than those offered by Toyota or Ford are simply deluded IMO.

Of the 3 main alloyanchor advocates in this thread. 1 works at a Holden dealership as a parts interpreter so will be biased anyway. 1 is an 18 year old with bugger all experience in driving anything but mummy and daddy's cars and his own Alloyanchor. And 1 drives a VP V6. And who wouldn't think the alloyanchor is revolutionary compared to that. Its natural to defend what we own or follow.. But that doesn't make it correct.
Frankly its my opinion that the V6 is a piece of shit and if you don't like it :flipoff:. Yes that is a bit harsh in magnitude, but lets face FACTS. It is the worst V6 on the market in the large car segment.. That's not opinion, that is fact and is confirmed by every bloody motoring journo in the country.. There are just way to many one eyed Holden fans to see the forest through the trees sometimes.

Pffft, blow it out your arse mate, I don't think anybody is taking notice of your stupid anti-Alloytec rants.
So if we are all unqualified to judge then kindly explain to us who the hell you are and what do you think makes you the final authority on judging engines? Do you think you know it all because you have done some dodgy backyard 'self tune' on your VT? What did you do, plug your Atari in?
Since when are magazine journalists personal opinions meant to be taken as fact?
And are you so naieve to think that just because I have a VP as a daily driver I have not driven or experienced any other car? Seriously, I think you are the one that is deluded. It must be all the petrol sniffing or whatever it is they do up north.

[Ewok]

Lot of debate about this one. But from what I have heard and what I have literally heard, is twin 2 1/4" into a single 3" then through a 3" resonator with twin tips with headers is a good sounding system without being droney or excessively loud.

Lol since posting that I just noticed vecommo's post. Spot on mate. Seriously macca, no one gives a shit what you think about the alloytech. We know better.

[RSK]

Lot of debate about this one. But from what I have heard and what I have literally heard, is twin 2 1/4" into a single 3" then through a 3" resonator with twin tips with headers is a good sounding system without being droney or excessively loud.

Lol since posting that I just noticed vecommo's post. Spot on mate. Seriously macca, no one gives a shit what you think about the alloytech. We know better.

Thanks for tha advice :) Any idea how much that would set me back?

[Ewok]

From what I know you'd be looking at something around the $1700 mark all up (roughly). Could be little less depending on if you wanted to go for stainless or mild steel setup (probably mild would be better off as not a huge difference, unless you want to keep the car for a long time, then go stainless)

[planetdavo]

Pffft, blow it out your arse mate, I don't think anybody is taking notice of your stupid anti-Alloytec rants.
So if we are all unqualified to judge then kindly explain to us who the hell you are and what do you think makes you the final authority on judging engines? Do you think you know it all because you have done some dodgy backyard 'self tune' on your VT? What did you do, plug your Atari in?
Since when are magazine journalists personal opinions meant to be taken as fact?
And are you so naieve to think that just because I have a VP as a daily driver I have not driven or experienced any other car? Seriously, I think you are the one that is deluded. It must be all the petrol sniffing or whatever it is they do up north.
I must admit I find it slightly amusing that for the mass of technical info I freely give to this forum, constantly at the risk of attack, the same small number of stupid peckerheads on this forum (ok, in this thread macca779 :bawl:) rant off with the same tired old vomit about where I work!
Last time I checked, most of us earn our spending money somewhere...:goodjob:

[macca_779]

Lot of debate about this one. But from what I have heard and what I have literally heard, is twin 2 1/4" into a single 3" then through a 3" resonator with twin tips with headers is a good sounding system without being droney or excessively loud.

Lol since posting that I just noticed vecommo's post. Spot on mate. Seriously macca, no one gives a shit what you think about the alloytech. We know better.

Mate its obvious people do give a shit about what I say about the alloyanchor.. If they didn't they wouldn't care about my opinion on them and wouldn't retort in such a way that shows their true clouded view. Rather they would just laugh it off and realise that its just MY OPINION and move on.

To be honest I really couldn't give a toss. I'm not the one trying to justify my purchase of a shit engine to the rest of the world on a bloody V8 Forum.

Feel free to keep commenting on how the alloyanchor is the best 6 cylinder engine ever fitted to an aussie car though.. Its only making those saying it look stupider.

[`redoctober]

1 is an 18 year old with bugger all experience in driving anything but mummy and daddy's cars and his own Alloyanchor.

Ooh, that hurt mate. In all your years of driving experience I'm sure you know it doesn't take all that much to mash the accelerator, in the same wind I'm sure it's pretty easy to pretend to be a legitimate tuner as well.

So far I've driven a VY S, VP Exec, VE SV6, VL Calais, VX S, VE, Audi TTS, BMW 330i, BMW 525i, '98 Patrol, '89 Patrol, a Hyundai Elantra (haha :lol:), a '78 Corolla, my VE Calais and I've had prior go-karting experience (yes, you can say that doesn't do a whole lot but it teaches you a lot about control). I've been driving since I was 12 in all conditions, so obviously I have f#$k all experience.

:goodjob:

I enjoyed the half-arsed attempt at wit though :jester:

-Rob.

[planetdavo]

Feel free to keep commenting on how the alloyanchor is the best 6 cylinder engine ever fitted to an aussie car though.. Its only making those saying it look stupider.
Isn't it funny how the one person that seems to be flogging off over the "best" 6cyl engine currently available in Australia (Ford) is the one person that keeps referring to Holden's current V6 as an "anchor", yet claims to have no real interest anyway! :rofl:
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm....

[RSK]

Ooh, that hurt mate. In all your years of driving experience I'm sure you know it doesn't take all that much to mash the accelerator, in the same wind I'm sure it's pretty easy to pretend to be a legitimate tuner as well.

So far I've driven a VY S, VP Exec, VE SV6, VL Calais, VX S, VE, Audi TTS, BMW 330i, BMW 525i, '98 Patrol, '89 Patrol, a Hyundai Elantra (haha :lol:), a '78 Corolla, my VE Calais and I've had prior go-karting experience (yes, you can say that doesn't do a whole lot but it teaches you a lot about control). I've been driving since I was 12 in all conditions, so obviously I have f#$k all experience.

:goodjob:

I enjoyed the half-arsed attempt at wit though :jester:

-Rob.

How does the VE compare to the VY?

[macca_779]

Ooh, that hurt mate. In all your years of driving experience I'm sure you know it doesn't take all that much to mash the accelerator, in the same wind I'm sure it's pretty easy to pretend to be a legitimate tuner as well.

So far I've driven a VY S, VP Exec, VE SV6, VL Calais, VX S, VE, Audi TTS, BMW 330i, BMW 525i, '98 Patrol, '89 Patrol, a Hyundai Elantra (haha :lol:), a '78 Corolla, my VE Calais and I've had prior go-karting experience (yes, you can say that doesn't do a whole lot but it teaches you a lot about control). I've been driving since I was 12 in all conditions, so obviously I have f#$k all experience.

:goodjob:

I enjoyed the half-arsed attempt at wit though :jester:

-Rob.

Well there you go I rest my case.. Young and Dumb and list of no experience.

[`redoctober]

How does the VE compare to the VY?

The VY is a nice car to drive, especially the Calais! I'd say the VE is light years ahead regarding drive quality, but that's only if you are a nit picker like me.

I'm not being biased here, however. The VY S and VY Calais' are nice cars to drive and if I couldn't have the VE, I'd definitely go for a VY or VZ without hesitation :)

If you lived in Melbourne I'd let you have a drive of mine to see what you think, but trust me, both are pretty damn good. It's all up to how much you wanna spend, the VE Calais' are going at a minimum of 23-24k and the VE SV6 you could pick up for about 19-20k if you look in the right places.

-Rob.

[zaim]

I hope this pic I just took makes your decision more firmer ;)

http://www.zaimc.com/temp/calais2.jpg

[`redoctober]

I hope this pic I just took makes your decision more firmer ;)

http://www.zaimc.com/temp/calais2.jpg

Needs rims! But that thing is gorgeous mate :drool:

It's like my cars little brother :D

[zaim]

Needs rims! But that thing is gorgeous mate :drool:

It's like my cars little brother :D

haha thanks!! yeah it does need rims.. im up for new tyres in the next 10~20,000km's... so might do a full change over.. see how it goes. otherwise at stock, i've made her as beautiful as possible :)

[Evil SS]

Easy answer, Buy The Calais !!

[chargedvx6]

if this is going to turn into a shit fight about which 6 is the quickest then ill play my card, toyota aurion, that will beat all of them no trouble at all. Has nayone driven one, **** me i was impressed, got a rental, flogged the shit out of it, it chirps like crazy, the only problem is it is front wheel drive and torque steers somehting cronic when you give it to it lol

I work at Toyota and drive these things all day every day. I own a mildly modded super6 and let me tell you, after many 0 - 120km/h duels the Toyota 200killawasps doen't cut it, doesn't even come close!

It feels fast due to the VVTI but it just isn't. Sorry. TRD TVS charged Aurion, that's a different story:goodjob:


Mate its obvious people do give a shit about what I say about the alloyanchor.. If they didn't they wouldn't care about my opinion on them and wouldn't retort in such a way that shows their true clouded view. Rather they would just laugh it off and realise that its just MY OPINION and move on.

To be honest I really couldn't give a toss. I'm not the one trying to justify my purchase of a shit engine to the rest of the world on a bloody V8 Forum.

Feel free to keep commenting on how the alloyanchor is the best 6 cylinder engine ever fitted to an aussie car though.. Its only making those saying it look stupider.


Having worked at Holden rectifying Alloytecs and also being a super 6 owner I've got to say that both engines have their strong points and weaknesses (Alloytec not so weak). The main issue with these engines keeping in mind that they are Fuel inected comouter calibrated by the second is that the Alloytec calibration leaves ALOT to be desired. It is a great engine but has not gained aot in aftermarket development improvements yet IMO.

For the OP.....I've just bought a VYII L67 Calais because I'm a modder and these things are dirt cheap and pretty much identical with the VZ Calais (engine config excl..). If you like to mod a car get a VYII L67 or Gen3 but if you just want to enjoy the status get an Alloytec Calais and cruise it.

Either way make sure it's a Calais :soap:

[zaim]

If you like to mod a car get a VYII L67 or Gen3 but if you just want to enjoy the status get an Alloytec Calais and cruise it.

What about a VZ Calais with an ls1 in it?

[pmac]

if you do go down the path of a vz calais, i would advise against cream interior. i have a cream interior with black exterior and yes i looks awsome but its a nightmare to keep clean. i allready respayed the 1 of the seats from fake tan marks and the others are gonna be done soon as they are full of black marks.

on the engine issues that everyone loves to bring about, The calais is not a sports car its the 2nd heaviest in the commodore sedan range, that why there are sports packs in the commodore range!!!
The calais is a comfotable luxury cruiser and yes a v8 would be nice but imo the alloytec is very well suited to this car, its quiet, got plenty of power to flog it down a street or climb a hill and its smooth, thanks to the 5sp box.

its a good engine, it has a few flaws but there tolerable

and zaim vey nice mate, silver with black trim looks very classy
love how the blackened head lights and tail lights stand out

[zaim]

and zaim vey nice mate, silver with black trim looks very classy
love how the blackened head lights and tail lights stand out

thanks man.. that was my aim completely. i wanted the silver to match the rims, the blank tint and interior to match the tyres, and the headlights to just stand out as sexy as they can be

[Girvo]

remember guys, red is talking bout a factory supercharged donk - L67, and i am assuming with stock boost etc
in factory form, it isnt that amazing (i know, as i drove one for a couple of years)
but true, lots of potential in them for not much $$$

i do not know why people bad mouth the alloytec and the VE so much
it is not trying to be a sports car, but i am happy with the performance vs economy that my 3.6L gives
and they do gain quite a bit with the mods ive got (otr, dual 2.25 inch [ala SV6], mufflers and maf tune)

i would say that my car would pip the l67 that i drove by a little, but it feels much more stable and safe at higher speeds

in the end, its apples and oranges lads!



Where did you get the MAF OTR??? :eyes:

If you dont mind me asking, that is.