Got Done by EPA on Northern Beaches on Saturday Night

[FAT06L]

well where does my rant begin??? :bawl:

first, i drive a VE SS V with xforce extractors, cats, dual 2.5inch exhaust and Orssom OTRCAI with a maf tune. very nice car to drive.

was 910pm on saturday night (8/11) and had just picked my mate up and was heading into the city to have a perve and just go for a good drive out to the eastern suburbs etc etc. got pulled into a RBT in a common spot in Warriewood on Pittwater Rd. 7 Highway Patrol cars! got told to turn my car into the car park for a EPA noise test.

pulled into the car park thinkin no worries, this will be quick. EPA then went over the car and proceeded to defect my ORSSOM OTR cold air. (intake noise). X Force Cats (not complied). and then the all important noise test. this is where it gets interesting.

i asked the gentleman at what rpm would he be conducting the test at. he said 4250rpm. i quizzed him on would we be going for a drive cause i wasnt goin to let them rev the motor in neutral at that speed whilst the motor wasnt under load. he said that it had to be tested at that rpm whilst in park. i quickly objected to this as i didnt want my L98 spinning up 4250rpm whilst not under load. bad things happen at that rpm. i have seen it first hand in a VY Maloo.

so, 98db at 4250rpm. 8db over the legal limit. i quizzed the gentleman on what a HSV Clubsport or GTS should read. at the exact same RPM, the HSV should read 2db quieter than a SS!!!! thats right 88db at 4250rpm. i almost pissed myself laughing!

so, $450 later, i need to pass an EPA noise test. i have the stock airbox at home, but no stock exhaust. i will email Sonny as he kept my stock exhaust and hope he can help me out.

has anyone else been through this? can anyone suggest how i can get the car a lil quieter as by no means is my car overly loud or wild compared to most cars getting around...

where my rant really starts is how the police treated me. like a 2nd class citizen. after they got me, they packed up the RBT and moved into the car park and stood around and watched me get done. defected for 22s (ok granted), for HID lights (yeh ok) and then had the balls to tell me that 17, yes 17 i counted, police officers standing around watching a VE get done was correct use of police manpower. i was dirty. but bit my tongue and took it. the defects for the wheels and hid's has already been cleared. but this noise test will be a bitch.

however, i can make all the noise i want for the next 21 days or till a point when i have passed the EPA test! hahaha

what an expensive night indeed!

[BLACKVE]

Bad luck mate:flipoff:

Still pisses me off that they defect cars that are very safe etc(as rusty crap cars drive by)

Problem for every VE owner is that any aftermarket cat means car is defectable(EURO 4 emissions), as for cold air setups thats a joke. i always live in fear a little with my cam and 3" exhaust set up but so far so good.

4250 sounds high last time i was tested it was 3000rpm(in SA)

Best of luck getting of defect

Cheers Paul

[Aeron]

Thats hard luck mate. Everyone likes the noise of a 6litre, I dont see the problem. Bloody EPA. :flipoff:
$450 + the price to get it back to standard sux big time!.

[FAT06L]

Bad luck mate:flipoff:

Still pisses me off that they defect cars that are very safe etc(as rusty crap cars drive by)

Problem for every VE owner is that any aftermarket cat means car is defectable(EURO 4 emissions), as for cold air setups thats a joke. i always live in fear a little with my cam and 3" exhaust set up but so far so good.

4250 sounds high last time i was tested it was 3000rpm(in SA)

Best of luck getting of defect

Cheers Paul

yeh i have been trying to find something on the RTA website stating at what RPM should the noise test be done at. but as per usual, they make it impossible to find! :flipoff:

[Darkrayne]

what always gets me is how loud harleys can be yet cars are not allowed to be anywhere near them loudness wise.... one harley could wake the whole neighbourhood up.. bad luck dude.. i went through a similar thing to you though I was lucky enough to not get any canaries.. all be it they reckoned for tint... sheesh..

[stevet]

Hi

I hope this helps It is from the NSW Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2008


5) The maximum noise level of a motor bus, motor car, motor cycle or motor lorry is to be determined in accordance with the National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures, and in determining the maximum noise level, any reference in that document to an omnibus or a goods vehicle is taken to be a reference to a motor bus or a motor lorry respectively.
Note. A copy of the National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures is available for inspection at the offices of the EPA.

National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures means the document published by the National Road Transport Commission entitled National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures for In-service Motor Vehicles dated April 2000 as amended or replaced from time to time

Cheers
stevet

[Super_Matt]

thats bad luck mate.

If sonny doesnt have a standard system that you can borrow i have one lying around..

[FAT06L]

thats bad luck mate.

If sonny doesnt have a standard system that you can borrow i have one lying around..

mate that would be awesome. i have a hoist etc etc and a best mate whos a mechanic who will take the couple of hours to help fit. are you located in sydney?

[Super_Matt]

im from goulburn but i'm coming up tues night, so i can bring it up then mate.

[FAT06L]

Hi

I hope this helps It is from the NSW Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2008


5) The maximum noise level of a motor bus, motor car, motor cycle or motor lorry is to be determined in accordance with the National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures, and in determining the maximum noise level, any reference in that document to an omnibus or a goods vehicle is taken to be a reference to a motor bus or a motor lorry respectively.
Note. A copy of the National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures is available for inspection at the offices of the EPA.

National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures means the document published by the National Road Transport Commission entitled National Stationary Exhaust Noise Test Procedures for In-service Motor Vehicles dated April 2000 as amended or replaced from time to time

Cheers
stevet


thanks for that mate. i have been pouring all over the EPA, RTA, ADR websites all morning looking for stuff. i dont dispute the 90db level cause i have found that on every one of the websites, but trying to find the RPM at which they test is proving to be overly ellusive.

my mate in the car with me has a tuff VS ute with twin 3 inch pipes knocked off at the diff! his car was last tested at 127db. lucky his car wasnt out....



but my car isnt heaps loud. its a nice V8 sound. just got me dirty about the money i guess! ended up being an expensive cruise!

[10sec_rx7]

it is usually 75% of the peak rpm..
if you told them your rev limit was higher than stock they would have tested it at higher rpm again...

[VX2VESS]

First search first web site.

This is NT government but it is a national document, so it is the test procedure for all Australia.

http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/NatStatExhaustNoiseTestSept2006.pdf

also found this one that has engine speeds for cars, but its from 2000
VT clubby test speed is 4,200 rpm

http://epanote2.epa.vic.gov.au/EPA/Publications.nsf/d85500a0d7f5f07b4a2565d1002268f3/e9a3b54956ac6b18ca256d16007b66e8/$FILE/317.1.pdf

OTRs are not legal either eh...

[CSP]

4.1.9 For vehicles fitted with two or more exhaust outlets spaced more than 300mm apart,
each exhaust outlet shall be treated separately as if it were the only one.

So make sure for a VE you stand between your exhaust tips or in some other way obstruct the noise coming from the second outlet.

I'm going to keep a copy of that document about noise in my glove box along with a dyno print out showing the RPM at which peak power is developed in order to know the RPM for any test. Also, I have seen people get defected by dickheads holding the mic. Nice to know it has to be tripod mounted! :D

[Toddler78]

bad luck mate. honest question, I dont want to stir the pot but are you sure the OTR defect was for noise and not having an enclosed air box, or having oil on the filter?
I mean id be pretty confident that the intake noise wouldnt exceed 90dB

[SHANESVZSS]

defect for otr..thw w427 have em stock..would that be a defect??

[C4B]

defect for otr..thw w427 have em stock..would that be a defect??

No because HSV would have got the car tested as a package (with the OTR in place).

[FAT06L]

thats the Killer thing.

on the police defect notice, i only had 22s and the HIDs. not the OTRCAI.

that is coming on the defect notice by the EPA. they said it would produce more noise than standard and therefore is a defect! i should have thought that the W427 comes with a OTRCAI. dammit!

[VZ_V8]

thats the Killer thing.

on the police defect notice, i only had 22s and the HIDs. not the OTRCAI.

that is coming on the defect notice by the EPA. they said it would produce more noise than standard and therefore is a defect! i should have thought that the W427 comes with a OTRCAI. dammit!

i thought HIDs were only illegal if you didnt have projector headlights??? Are they all illegal unless they are fitted in the factory, projector or not???

[CSP]

i thought HIDs were only illegal if you didnt have projector headlights??? Are they all illegal unless they are fitted in the factory, projector or not???

HIDs are perfectly legal but only when you have them in projector headlights AND they have to be self leveling. So just swaping the globes into the projector headlights on the VE is technically illegal.

[FAT06L]

HIDs are perfectly legal but only when you have them in projector headlights AND they have to be self leveling. So just swaping the globes into the projector headlights on the VE is technically illegal.

correct. my lexus had self levelling. commodore doesnt.

[VZ_V8]

HIDs are perfectly legal but only when you have them in projector headlights AND they have to be self leveling. So just swaping the globes into the projector headlights on the VE is technically illegal.

so if i put single beam H11 HIDs in my projector VZ headlights, they will be illegal???

[CSP]

so if i put single beam H11 HIDs in my projector VZ headlights, they will be illegal???

They most certainly will be without a self leveling system.

[CeeVee8]

i asked the gentleman at what rpm would he be conducting the test at. he said 4250rpm. i quizzed him on would we be going for a drive cause i wasnt goin to let them rev the motor in neutral at that speed whilst the motor wasnt under load. he said that it had to be tested at that rpm whilst in park. i quickly objected to this as i didnt want my L98 spinning up 4250rpm whilst not under load. bad things happen at that rpm. i have seen it first hand in a VY Maloo.



Are you serious? The motor has NO load on it, what could possibly go wrong at 4250 rpm.

Have you ever has your car on a dyno ? If so that will have probably put the most load on your entire car than anything, not just the motor but the whole driveline.

[FAT06L]

Are you serious? The motor has NO load on it, what could possibly go wrong at 4250 rpm.

Have you ever has your car on a dyno ? If so that will have probably put the most load on your entire car than anything, not just the motor but the whole driveline.


i am saying without load! so free revving! putting load onto a motor is a lot better when revving it than with no load!

[VZ_V8]

Are you serious? The motor has NO load on it, what could possibly go wrong at 4250 rpm.

Have you ever has your car on a dyno ? If so that will have probably put the most load on your entire car than anything, not just the motor but the whole driveline.

thats his point.... its NOT good to rev a motor with NO load on it.

too late....

[Skooby]

Lucky you didn't get done for the OTR as getting it replaced/retuned would be a pain in the a##$.

In NSW police can defect ANY car whether it is "legal" or not. You can have a bog stock commodore and be defected for the suspension being too low. Even if it's not, if the cop believes it is too low, you get the defect and have to get it cleared with all the bloody hassle. You can't dispute it either.

Police don't have to prove you have a legal vehicle, thats why you get a defect, so you can "prove" to the guy that cleares it.

Out of curiosity, whats the exact exhaust you have on your car so we can get an idea of how loud it is?

[CeeVee8]

Yep OK then, if thats what you want to believe.

This topic might be better for another thread as it is getting off the topic.

[Skooby]

Yep OK then, if thats what you want to believe.

This topic might be better for another thread as it is getting off the topic.

Was this comment in relation to what I posted?

If so would you care to explain?

[VZ_V8]

Was this comment in relation to what I posted?

If so would you care to explain?

i think its to do with the revving of an engine not under load.. above your post

[Bravotwozero]

Just a question in regards to the 22's. Are 22's on a VE illegal? I saw an R8 for sale at Booran Holden in Cheltenham and it was fitted with 22's :confused:

[Skooby]

sweet no dramas.

Hard to get past EPA, cause ALL of them will screw you hard.

Police, it just depends if they are in a good mood, or you have an attitude.

[CSP]

Just a question in regards to the 22's. Are 22's on a VE illegal? I saw an R8 for sale at Booran Holden in Cheltenham and it was fitted with 22's :confused:

Overall rolling diameter has to be within one inch of the maximum overall rolling diameter from Holden.

I.e. if the rolling diameter (rim and tyre) is within 1 inch of a standard Holden/HSV 20 inch rim and tyre then it's legal.

[Bravotwozero]

Overall rolling diameter has to be within one inch of the maximum overall rolling diameter from Holden.

I.e. if the rolling diameter (rim and tyre) is within 1 inch of a standard Holden/HSV 20 inch rim and tyre then it's legal.

Well I don't know too much about what is and isn't legal on VE so is it possible? One could assume that if a Holden dealer was selling a brand new car with 22's then they'd have to be legal?

[kriminal]

thats the Killer thing.

on the police defect notice, i only had 22s and the HIDs. not the OTRCAI.

that is coming on the defect notice by the EPA. they said it would produce more noise than standard and therefore is a defect! i should have thought that the W427 comes with a OTRCAI. dammit!

Thats funny cos my OTR made my car a tad bit quieter, lol.....
still defect i guess but when i had my stock airbox (stock box but 2hole mod) in it was much louder and the induction noise was louder as well.

[255-LS1]

tuff break mate, but did you cop any good fluff after the EPA inspection, that was the goal of hte even wasn't it lol

[FAT06L]

dont really follow what you mean mate! lol

[hallyoz]

In relation to the actual RBT/EPA tests, it was my understanding that when pulled over (in NSW) for a roadside RBT, they cannot do anything else unless being over the 0.05 limit. They can't even ask to see your licence? maybe the rules have change or I have it wrong, but would be interested to hear thoughts form any police on the forum.

[Bravotwozero]

In relation to the actual RBT/EPA tests, it was my understanding that when pulled over (in NSW) for a roadside RBT, they cannot do anything else unless being over the 0.05 limit. They can't even ask to see your licence? maybe the rules have change or I have it wrong, but would be interested to hear thoughts form any police on the forum.

I've been asked to produce my license at an RBT a couple of times. Once I blew .00 and the other time I'd been drinking but was under the limit. Don't know what I blew because the officer wouldn't tell me. But I'm guessing I was creeping up close to the limit.

[255-LS1]

lol did you see any good birds out and about, females... lol

[Skooby]

In relation to the actual RBT/EPA tests, it was my understanding that when pulled over (in NSW) for a roadside RBT, they cannot do anything else unless being over the 0.05 limit. They can't even ask to see your licence? maybe the rules have change or I have it wrong, but would be interested to hear thoughts form any police on the forum.

You can get pulled over in NSW any way, roadside or mobile for an RBT. The cops can also ask to see your licence, which it is an offence not to produce, you can also have your vehicle defected and or your vehicle or person searched for drugs etc.

All depends on the circumstances, but what you heard about being able to do only one thing is incorrect.

Oh the limit is 0.049, 0.050 you will get charged at :)

[CarCareProducts]

Very tough break mate, I actually drove past there at about 7pm and I remember seeing a Red Highway car and a few cops in the car park as I drove past. I'm feeling very lucky as it could have cost me quite a bit if I got pulled over. IIRC there are a few legalities about the cops asking you to drive off the public road to perform the tests and that might be something worth exploring. Hope you get it sorted asap.

If you are only a few db over the limit, look into fitting a flange plate between one of your exhaust flanges. Get some plate steel cut out and then drill a few holes in it, it will go a long way to quieting the system down and you wont have to remove the exhaust.

[ebbett21]

Jealous cop i suspect trying to be a big timer, they arnt much better in NZ the traffic patrol cops are ever ok or rite wankers, maybe thats why they put em on traffic.......lets face it no normal dude would wanna do there job they are a special breed

[bush_basha]

If you are only a few db over the limit, look into fitting a flange plate between one of your exhaust flanges. Get some plate steel cut out and then drill a few holes in it, it will go a long way to quieting the system down and you wont have to remove the exhaust.


thats a good idea, have to remember that for the just incase book, lol

[bok1]

you stated that they where going to test at 4250rpm but in the national stationar exhaust test they are supposed to test at 3900rpm for all v8s past 2000.

(iii) 8 cylinders and is
manufactured before 2000 3300 rpm
manufactured in 2000 or later 3900 rpm.

that is what they state.maybe a technicality but you never know unless you try.


phil

[XR4TED]

Mate,

I feel your pain. I got done in Janaury this year. They tested my car at 4000rpm. Its a pain in the arse that is for sure. Good luck with the change over.

Cheers

[holden6.0]

what always gets me is how loud harleys can be yet cars are not allowed to be anywhere near them loudness wise.... one harley could wake the whole neighbourhood up.. bad luck dude.. i went through a similar thing to you though I was lucky enough to not get any canaries.. all be it they reckoned for tint... sheesh..

yup total bs and youv gotta be givin ya car a fair bit of stick seein over 4000rpm
we're usually sittin around 2000rpm cruisin speed so y - just a full exhaust system is not over the top that sux if it gets that bad no point havin a performance car at all

[scotty82]

I would be challenging the noise test. Cutting a long story short I am an aeronautical engineer but I worked for an acoustics company for a year or so. I also know a few guys on highway patrol.

Usually when a cop pings you for noise you get issued with the slip to go to the RTA test centre for the emissions and noise test. They can say its noisy but they aren't the ones to judge.

Things to check are;
1. How can they accurately know what rpm you are doing? Guessing by the needle ain't accurate enough.
2. What sort of noise meter did they use? Let me tell you they range from cheapies on ebay to $15K plus. Was it calibrated?
3. Background noise?
4. What height was the noise meter held at?
5. Any buildings or walls, parked cars nearby?

One thing to remember sound in dB(A), (B) , (C) etc is a log scale and not linear. dB and frequency get confused all the time.

If any of the points above are a bit sketchy it can change things by a few dB.

Hope things work out for you.

Regards
Scott

[VXSS346]

I would be challenging the noise test. Cutting a long story short I am an aeronautical engineer but I worked for an acoustics company for a year or so. I also know a few guys on highway patrol.

Usually when a cop pings you for noise you get issued with the slip to go to the RTA test centre for the emissions and noise test. They can say its noisy but they aren't the ones to judge.

Things to check are;
1. How can they accurately know what rpm you are doing? Guessing by the needle ain't accurate enough.
2. What sort of noise meter did they use? Let me tell you they range from cheapies on ebay to $15K plus. Was it calibrated?
3. Background noise?
4. What height was the noise meter held at?
5. Any buildings or walls, parked cars nearby?

One thing to remember sound in dB(A), (B) , (C) etc is a log scale and not linear. dB and frequency get confused all the time.

If any of the points above are a bit sketchy it can change things by a few dB.

Hope things work out for you.

Regards
Scott

Does changing the weighting (A, B or C) on a db meter effect the reading? If so roughly how much?

I've always wondered that, as you'd think it should be standardized.
I'd guess 'A' weighting would be the standard. Yes?

Cheers :)

[HYMEY]

Instead of changing the exhaust just cut out some 3mm steel plate the same size as the zorst flanges and drill holes in them,bolt them in between the flanges. get a bit of back pressure but it shuts them right up for a noise test, used to do it all the time. The fines are rediculous and the otr being to loud is a joke I have one on my car and its fairly quiet with filter in. did they noise test the otr? either way u are screwed they will defect u. Ultimately the only way to have a car to pass noise, emissions etc is to have one that is engineered and tested or just run a stealth combo,ie. cat back system, stock cats, stock intake with a K and N filter and run a stealth cam something like a 218 218 115 along those lines. I got some filthy looks yesterday driving past police doing random breath tests in newcastle, cammed L98 with dual 3 inch system in a lowered VE ute gets attention both good and bad and I was lucky that they had to many cars already pulled over. The copper did look like a retard but so maybe would of been ok. :)

Unfortunately weather the car is modified or not we will be discriminated against. I was doing 110km/h in a 100 zone and got pulled over. I questioned the officers inability to take notice of the car in front that was comfortably accelerating away from me but my cheeky mouth didnt help. Street sleepers are the best way to go, if i was livin in sydney I would have a sleeper.

[scotty82]

Yes it should have been dB(A). Here is a graph showing you the difference.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d4/Lindos2.svg/400px-Lindos2.svg.png

You use different weightings for different types of noise measurements.

From wikipedia

A-frequency-weighting is mandated to be fitted to all sound level meters. The old B- and D-frequency-weightings have fallen into disuse, but many sound level meters provide for C frequency-weighting and its fitting is mandated — at least for testing purposes — to precision (Class one) sound level meters. D-frequency-weighting was specifically designed for use when measuring high level aircraft noise in accordance with the IEC 537 measurement standard. The large peak in the D-weighting curve is not a feature of the equal-loudness contours, but reflects the fact that humans hear random noise differently from pure tones, an effect that is particularly pronounced around 6 kHz. This is because individual neurons from different regions of the cochlea in the inner ear respond to narrow bands of frequencies, but the higher frequency neurons integrate a wider band and hence signal a louder sound when presented with noise containing many frequencies than for a single pure tone of the same pressure level. Following changes to the ISO standard, D-frequency-weighting should now only be used for non-bypass engines and as these are not fitted to commercial aircraft — but only to military ones — A-frequency-weighting is now mandated for all civilian aircraft measurements.

Z- or ZERO frequency-weighting was introduced in the International Standard IEC 61672 in 2003 and was intended to replace the "Flat" or "Linear" frequency weighting often fitted by manufacturers. This change was needed as each sound level meter manufacturer could choose their own low and high frequency cut-offs (–3dB) points, resulting in different readings, especially when peak sound level was being measured. As well, the C-frequency-weighting, with –3dB points at 31,5Hz and 8kHz did not have a sufficient bandpass to allow the sensibly correct measurement of true peak noise (Lpk)

B- and D-frequency-weightings are no longer described in the body of the standard IEC 61672 : 2003, but their frequency responses can be found in the older IEC 60651, although that has been formally withdrawn by the International Electro-technical Commission in favour of IEC 61672 : 2003. The frequency weighting tolerances in IEC 61672 have been tightened over those in the earlier standards IEC 179 and IEC 60651 and thus instruments complying with the earlier specifications should no longer be used for legally required measurements.


There is also a drive by noise test. I personally would be contacting the RTA and ask what is required. Do you research and go from there. I hope this info is of some help

Cheers
Scott

[VXSS346]

Cheers for that interesting info.

Might be a stupid question but, does that mean that 'A' weighting means lower frequencies are less sensitive to the db meter reading than normal?

[lowriding]

it does sound pathetic,worst thing in those situations is watching the endless stream of smoky , bald tyred shitheaps sail by the dozen totally ignored. dont blame the police they are only puppets being told what to do from more senior muppets further up the command chain .And then its the politicians that tell them what to do based on talkback radio opinions ,a frightening thought and a very sad state of affairs !

[ED]

Been in the same place you are now. Regardless, you will have trouble getting down to the legal limit. A stocko goes very close to the 91db limit. As others have said background noise plays a big part too. My car totally jammed up to stop exhaust noise was still going over from the noise of the roller rockers in the engine bay.. However, provided you have made an attempt to rectify the problem, and you get close to the limit (within 2 db) they may let you pass.

During the roadside test, the car ran 98db at idle and 120db under power. Once back at an exhaust shop, different room, less background noise, the car ran 91 at idle and 98 under power. Massive differences sound wise.

[tanka5.7]

no point whingin bout "old bombs" drivin past, if you mod your car take it on the chin, you know its illegal.

my 2cents

[glen III]

...IIRC there are a few legalities about the cops asking you to drive off the public road to perform the tests and that might be something worth exploring....

The car park would be a road related area, so no problem.


In relation to the actual RBT/EPA tests, it was my understanding that when pulled over (in NSW) for a roadside RBT, they cannot do anything else unless being over the 0.05 limit. They can't even ask to see your licence? maybe the rules have change or I have it wrong, but would be interested to hear thoughts form any police on the forum.

Nah, not even close. A police officer may pull over any vehicle to perform a random breath or, if properly equipped and qualified, a random drug test.

And as per this:-

Road Transport (vehicle Registration) Act 1997

26 Defective registrable vehicles

(cf Cth Act s 28)

(1) A police officer, or the Authority, may inspect a registrable vehicle (whether or not on a road or road related area) for the purpose of deciding its identity, condition or the status of any registration or permit relating to the vehicle.
(1A) A registered operator or owner of, or any person in charge of or having the custody of or selling or having in possession for sale or otherwise of the registrable vehicle must afford the police officer or the Authority all reasonable facilities for making such an inspection.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

any police officer may inspect ANY vehicle for defects, the critical part of the above being to determine the CONDITION of the vehicle. This includes on private property.

And yes, any time a person meets the legal definiton of a driver of a motor vehicle on a road or road related area, a Police officer is empowered to request said driver to produce their licence.



Unfortunately weather the car is modified or not we will be discriminated against. I was doing 110km/h in a 100 zone and got pulled over.

Discrimination at its worst. The HIDE of that police officer!

Cheers

Glen

[LSavvy]

How did they know it had Xforce cats, did they lift the car?

[VX2VESS]

you stated that they where going to test at 4250rpm but in the national stationar exhaust test they are supposed to test at 3900rpm for all v8s past 2000.

(iii) 8 cylinders and is
manufactured before 2000 3300 rpm
manufactured in 2000 or later 3900 rpm.

that is what they state.maybe a technicality but you never know unless you try.


phil


thats only if they don't know where max power is they use that guide

[ED]

Where do you get old bombs from? Was talking about general background noise, planes, trains, trucks, other cars. Neither did I whinge. I was pulled over, tested, subsequently failed, and then on my merry way.:confused:

[HAVUGO]

I have just been through this,the rpm they tested mine at was 3600.It should have been on the documentation you received that tells you where to get the epa test done or DECC test as it states on paperwork.Its a giant pain in the arse getting down to 90db,you got no idea how quiet 90db really is.Good luck.

[HYMEY]

Discrimination at its worst. The HIDE of that police officer!

Cheers

Glen

True True but u forgot to quote the bit about the mazda in front doing comfortably 10kmh faster....

[Y55-7UT]

Instead of changing the exhaust just cut out some 3mm steel plate the same size as the zorst flanges and drill holes in them,bolt them in between the flanges. get a bit of back pressure but it shuts them right up for a noise test, used to do it all the time

i done that when had to go over the pits, the poor thing struggeld to rev past 2500 with load, had aftermarket cats on, so i just bolted the stockers up and sprayed them black again so they looked nice and pretty for them and they could see that i changed them compared to the old ratty catback

[RyanIAm]

With the stepper headers and xforce catback, is it possible to keep the stock cats? Or they don't fit at all?

[scotty82]

Cheers for that interesting info.

Might be a stupid question but, does that mean that 'A' weighting means lower frequencies are less sensitive to the db meter reading than normal?

Yes thats right. Sound is made up by a group of frequencies called octives. You do a logarithmic sum of the weightings from each frequency band to get a SPL (Sound Pressure Level) or SWL (Sound Power Level). A weighting is more sensitive in the lower frequency octaves. There are formulas that you can use to work it out.

The way the sound meter is setup can have a big effect. Also did they do one reading or say three and average it?

[VXSS346]

Yes thats right. Sound is made up by a group of frequencies called octives. You do a logarithmic sum of the weightings from each frequency band to get a SPL (Sound Pressure Level) or SWL (Sound Power Level). A weighting is more sensitive in the lower frequency octaves. There are formulas that you can use to work it out.

The way the sound meter is setup can have a big effect. Also did they do one reading or say three and average it?

Cool thanks :)
So if 'A' weighting isnt used, it discriminates againsts deeper exhausts :lol:

Cheers :)

[FAT06L]

looking back, i wish i had of asked for one of the highway patrol SS's to have a noise test done to check if that was legal!

i am hoping that bolting up the stock exhaust and puting the stock airbox back in will see me through. waiting to hear back from Sonny when he returns in a couple of days to see what i can do about.

anyone know if doing the extractors on a VE is a chunt? rest of the exhaust is piss easy. havent done the extractors though!

[Bandit]

Todays Manly Daily depicts the Police & EPA combined assault on Friday & Saturday (7-8th Nov)....at the Northern Beaches.

A total of 25 modified cars were caught and given defect notices

It goes on say that legal db is 90 and under whilst idling
and 105 db and under whilst the car is at 3/4 throttle

[tanka5.7]

Where do you get old bombs from? Was talking about general background noise, planes, trains, trucks, other cars. Neither did I whinge. I was pulled over, tested, subsequently failed, and then on my merry way.:confused:

i didnt direct my post at you ive just seen it mentioned it a few times in this thread, like the owners think that cause they have a nice shiny new VE they shouldnt have to comply.
All i can say is lucky you didnt get sent for an emissions test. the sound test is easy to pass just bolt on a standard cat back, but aftermarket headers and cats will fail with emissions.

[FAT06L]

i didnt direct my post at you ive just seen it mentioned it a few times in this thread, like the owners think that cause they have a nice shiny new VE they shouldnt have to comply.
All i can say is lucky you didnt get sent for an emissions test. the sound test is easy to pass just bolt on a standard cat back, but aftermarket headers and cats will fail with emissions.


are you serious? we dont have to comply cause we have a shiny new VE? you on smack? nowhere did we say we dont have to comply. we were just whinging about it.

maybe i should start a whole new thread and post pics of my new engine crane and tell everyone how it took 20 minutes to assemble just like someone with a username much like yours did on SC!

[tanka5.7]

do you have a point? or was that just an attempt to belittle me? :goodjob:

[VZMY06SS]

What would happen if you went to your tuner and got them to lower your rev limiter to an extremely low level? Is it possible to set it to say 3000rpm. Then when you got it tested it'd be alot quieter right? I wonder what they'd do? Test it at the limiter or at 3/4 of the max rpm? Lol. If it'd work it'd probably save you some effort and money. Steve

[Red Beard]

The VZ SV6 only revs to 4000 in park or neutral, but it'll go up to 6500 when your giving it some, in an auto even. I suspect they know what revs to test each car at, where it makes the most noise. Maybe the exhaust shops should be testing for noise when they set up different cars, and supply the exhaust with a printout of sound output.

[gmh308]

What would happen if you went to your tuner and got them to lower your rev limiter to an extremely low level? Is it possible to set it to say 3000rpm. Then when you got it tested it'd be alot quieter right? I wonder what they'd do? Test it at the limiter or at 3/4 of the max rpm? Lol. If it'd work it'd probably save you some effort and money. Steve

At least with an auto, rev limit can be set on a per gear/park/reverse/nuetral basis. Park or nuetral: 2,000rpm ? :smilesandbanana:

[duke5700]

It would be an interesting ploy setting the limit in neutral to 2000rpm. I guess they would make you do a drive by or realise the ECU had been played with and send you for an emissions test.

[VX2VESS]

The VZ SV6 only revs to 4000 in park or neutral, but it'll go up to 6500 when your giving it some, in an auto even. I suspect they know what revs to test each car at, where it makes the most noise. Maybe the exhaust shops should be testing for noise when they set up different cars, and supply the exhaust with a printout of sound output.

Exhaust shops know the levels and almost all would have testers.

They know that the standard exhaust only just passes. So it is obvious all others will fail, report or not. The Std exhaust will last ten years. But no one likes the standard exhaust sound, so exhaust shops will happily supply them to you.

The 'Do Good' complainers manage to complain about cars, so they EPA set levels. Trouble is they are too low, so if all car enthusiasts were to complain it needs to be 98 db, then maybe they might change it. but these days the minority wins, a sad society its become when that happens. Plus its more gov't easy income, they know ppl will do it anyway, so its a steady income for them like most fines. when ppl start to comply with speed limits or noise they just reduce them again, can't let the income dry up.

[Brandonsdad]

Jealous cop i suspect trying to be a big timer, they arnt much better in NZ the traffic patrol cops are ever ok or rite wankers, maybe thats why they put em on traffic.......lets face it no normal dude would wanna do there job they are a special breed

They all failed the Parking Inspector Exams.:rofl:

[LSavvy]

How did they know it had Xforce cats, did they lift the car?

FAT06L, can you answer this for me please.

[BLACK 346]

FAT06L, can you answer this for me please.

Mirrors on poles maybe? Do the x-force cats have the brand imprinted
on them?

[TIR33D]

We need someone with some time and money to produce results showing exhaust intake mods actually save money and reduce fuel (so better for the environment). If the standard car is right on the limit anyway I am sure a car could be tested with 20000kms on it and not pass with its standard system.

Then we need to go to the kings of one sided information ie. Today tonight /a current affair and tell them all the benefits but don't mention the EPA. Surely 5db higher would allow for some savings on our poor planet.

Maybe a groundswell of people being willing to accept higher noise limits would give a bit more leverage.

Anyone who lives 3km or nearer to a train line would be experiencing higher levels all night. How about airport traffic.

I used to live next to a cop shop in Quakers Hill, funny how they weren't concerned with testing their siren outside my bedroom window at 6am or 11pm.

I had the hide to complain where the station captain told me that they should be testing every car every shift. Arsehole comment - luckily never followed through.

[ED]

didnt direct my post at you ive just seen it mentioned it a few times in this thread, like the owners think that cause they have a nice shiny new VE they shouldnt have to comply.
All i can say is lucky you didnt get sent for an emissions test. the sound test is easy to pass just bolt on a standard cat back, but aftermarket headers and cats will fail with emissions.

All good mate, was not having a go either

[Dane VN V8]

Mate that is no good, sorry to hear I really hope I don't fall into the same situation anytime soon.I usually drive out to the norhtern beaches and city for a cruise but luckily never been pulled over by the RBT'S.

[duke5700]

We need someone with some time and money to produce results showing exhaust intake mods actually save money and reduce fuel (so better for the environment). If the standard car is right on the limit anyway I am sure a car could be tested with 20000kms on it and not pass with its standard system.

Then we need to go to the kings of one sided information ie. Today tonight /a current affair and tell them all the benefits but don't mention the EPA. Surely 5db higher would allow for some savings on our poor planet.

Maybe a groundswell of people being willing to accept higher noise limits would give a bit more leverage.

Anyone who lives 3km or nearer to a train line would be experiencing higher levels all night. How about airport traffic.

I used to live next to a cop shop in Quakers Hill, funny how they weren't concerned with testing their siren outside my bedroom window at 6am or 11pm.

I had the hide to complain where the station captain told me that they should be testing every car every shift. Arsehole comment - luckily never followed through.


I think the fact that, running it leaner produces higher levels of NOx and COx from memory, the emmisions they are trying to cut down on. Someone with more knowledge on the subject may add more to it.

I know with diesel's, like with the larger tractors, CASE etc have a pre injection to heat the cylinder a power injection and then a post to cool the cylinder. They use more fuel to cut emmisions.

[FAT06L]

FAT06L, can you answer this for me please.

got on their hands and knees with a torch. then saw they were tiny compared to standard and then saw X Force stamp on the side. blows!

[LSavvy]

Didn't think they would stoop that low.:confused:

[VX2VESS]

might have to reduce mine a bit.

tested mine quickly 80 db idle, 103 db at 2000-3000 odd rpm. i rev'd it a few times on hold max reading, as i was by myself.

bit late to test it only just got home, so couldn't hold 4,000 rpm.

i'll test it properly when i get a chance, might of been a crackle on the down revs.

i'll do something before i get caught i guess.

bloody background sound in a dead quite area is 44 db

more db readings playing with it

my air porting tool, 100 db
car door shut 72 db
rangehood fan 70 db
microwave door shut 80 db

toilet flush 83 db

[FAT06L]

how ****ing ridiculous is it that a car has to stay at 90db considering the noise of the above examples!

[VX2VESS]

it is stupid if you want a nice sound.

perhaps the next person that gets caught could show them how stupidly low that is.

let a fart rip near the device, it will probably exceed 90 db, and exceed emission levels

90db another 'do good' minority idea no doubt..Gov't loves it because it another sure cash flow. just like they just dropped the speed limit past the national park on the hwy from current 90 to 80 yesterday (used to be 100), no homes around, just to increase revenue from speeding tickets and increase congestion. Should have been near the tram lines and lights only, the rest is safe.

We need more money lets just drop the limits again.

[Ned_Flanders666]

Has anyone been done or know of someone who failed the dB test with a Harley? I'm not pointing the finger at the bikes or the owners but there are quite a few that would be over the 90dB limit.

[harey]

Has anyone been done or know of someone who failed the dB test with a Harley? I'm not pointing the finger at the bikes or the owners but there are quite a few that would be over the 90dB limit.

I reckon most would idle over 90dB!! :vpo:

[KounTs_UtM]

Loud pipes save lives on bikes.

[FAT06L]

i think the Bike limit is 101db. but Harleys with loud pipes would be easy 120+db!

[Ned_Flanders666]

i think the Bike limit is 101db. but Harleys with loud pipes would be easy 120+db!

Wow,thats crazy!

[WOMBIE]

It's good thing my ride is super quiet :1peek:

[SupremeVT98]

Mirrors on poles maybe? Do the x-force cats have the brand imprinted
on them?

Yes it does. I've got an X-Force dual 2.5's and it's stamped.

[comm]

Hey guys I just got back from my mate's muffler shop today and these inspections are still happening around the beaches, so be careful. He had five requests for refitting old quiet exhaust systems due to noise defects in the last week!!! Also now the EPA/RTA or whoever are sending out letters to get cars sound tested based on neighbour's complaints that someone's car is too noisy... wtf

[smokey777]

i got done for excessive noise the other week. gave it half stick coming out of the servo near me. they were mainly worried because it chirped 1st to 2nd. mines pretty loud i dont know if i could make it quieter as it has full x-force cat back (two mufflers & resonator) but since i had tri-ys & cats fitted it doubled the sound output. my mate can hear it idle 4 cars back from me at a busy intersection :confused:

[ls1vt209]

The car park would be a road related area, so no problem.

Not quiet. Not many carparks are really when it comes down to it, common misconception.

[Ron SS]

I was EPA tested and it was ....rev to 3900 then lift off and sound is measured from 3900 to idle with the meter 0.5 metre away and at a 45 degree angle from one tip. Peak power for the VE is listed at 5700 rpm, and 3/4s of that is 4250 rpm. Hence if the EPA station has a listing, they will use 4250, otherwise they use 3900. Mine was 89 dBa ....HM catback fully legal.

To pass, all you need is to refit the rear mufflers. Front OTR intake is legal provided the filter has not been oiled. The EPA did not bother about my CSV OTR The sound issue from the OTR is part of the static exhaust test 90 dBa requirement. I found the EPA testers very friendly.

Loudest cars I have measured with my calibrated sound meter is 96 at idle for a KPM 3" cat back exhaust with Castle Hill extractors and cats. This rose to 98 at 3900 rpm. X Force full systems were only just over at 92 for 2.5" systems. The 3" X Force systems are way over at 94. These values would be a bit higher if measured at 4250rpm.

It would be nice to have a list of cats that are legal to use.

[Fiver]

It would be an interesting ploy setting the limit in neutral to 2000rpm. I guess they would make you do a drive by or realise the ECU had been played with and send you for an emissions test.

Wouldn't matter, the test is carried out at 75% of the maximum operational RPm, the car is not operational in neutral, they will generally test at 75% of the standard max rpm becuase not many cars operate at higher than stock rpm.

[duke5700]

Wouldn't matter, the test is carried out at 75% of the maximum operational RPm, the car is not operational in neutral, they will generally test at 75% of the standard max rpm becuase not many cars operate at higher than stock rpm.

Huh? So they test it on a dyno then? 75% opf the RPM on a drive by i first gear would be quickish. None of that post makes any sense.

[Fiver]

They test it in neutral, free revving but at 75% of the max operational RPM. My point is that reducing your neutral or "park" rpm limiter to 2000rpm wont help you get a lower test rpm. All it will mean is the car will not be able to reach the test rpm...

[duke5700]

Ahh much better engrish i understand now.

[ova400]

They test it in neutral, free revving but at 75% of the max operational RPM. My point is that reducing your neutral or "park" rpm limiter to 2000rpm wont help you get a lower test rpm. All it will mean is the car will not be able to reach the test rpm...

I would think that be the point, make the car unable to be easily tested

[vyssbeast]

harleys dont have a sound limit ... something to do with their stroke having no restrictions ... thats why they go for their lives sound wise...

[jezza85]

Getting EPA'd has been one of my main worries with my VE after two mate's got EPA'd last month when I already know my car is louder then there's. A reason why I won't be going a cam on my daily driver. EPA:flipoff:

[Wonky]

Getting EPA'd has been one of my main worries with my VE after two mate's got EPA'd last month when I already know my car is louder then there's. A reason why I won't be going a cam on my daily driver. EPA:flipoff:

Where were your mates done Jezza? What make/model of cars?

[jezza85]

Where were your mates done Jezza? What make/model of cars?

one was done in Mornington(VN 6) and one was done in Cranbourne(VT LS1).

[VZMY06SS]

They test it in neutral, free revving but at 75% of the max operational RPM. My point is that reducing your neutral or "park" rpm limiter to 2000rpm wont help you get a lower test rpm. All it will mean is the car will not be able to reach the test rpm...

But what stance would the EPA take on the car not being able to reach the required test RPM? Would they attempt to force you to replace the original limiter? I would think that they would have to test at 75% of 2000RPM, as that would be the max operational RPM. I'm not sure if that'd hold up, but I think it would be interesting to see what would happen.

[gmh308]

harleys dont have a sound limit ... something to do with their stroke having no restrictions ... thats why they go for their lives sound wise...

.....Keh...?

[Wonky]

one was done in Mornington(VN 6) and one was done in Cranbourne(VT LS1).

:eek: My area too!! Was hoping it was somewhere more in towards the city..... :( If it was actual EPA guys what sort of vehicles do they have, or was it just police?

[jezza85]

:eek: My area too!! Was hoping it was somewhere more in towards the city..... :( If it was actual EPA guys what sort of vehicles do they have, or was it just police?

Police I think,on a Friday night for the one in Morington and the mate from cranbourne recieve an EPA notice in the mail, and failed the EPA when he took it to be checked.

[Wonky]

Police I think,on a Friday night for the one in Morington and the mate from cranbourne recieve an EPA notice in the mail, and failed the EPA when he took it to be checked.

Looks like I'd better take it even easier than usual around here in that case as no way mine would pass! :(

[SV346]

epa is fun, you get to play with your car :D

But to people worried, just change exhausts back to standard and wash any oil out of filters and youl be right for those...
And anyone with a cam, if any rta, road people, cops, anyone ask if a car has a cam say no if you reckon it wont pass emissions, they cannot check otherwise and cant get you for emissions or something like that... Funnily enough the cop that got me for noise a while back said that :) nice bloke

[Fiver]

But what stance would the EPA take on the car not being able to reach the required test RPM? Would they attempt to force you to replace the original limiter? I would think that they would have to test at 75% of 2000RPM, as that would be the max operational RPM. I'm not sure if that'd hold up, but I think it would be interesting to see what would happen.

Again a neutral limiter wont help you - the AUto fords have a neutral limiter at 2500 or similar, but they are required to be tested at 75% of full operational RPM (neutral is not operational).

If the cop or inspector suspects you are playing games with then (in NSW atleast not sure about other states) they both have the power to request a full IM240 "in service" test.

This test is a complete emissions test where the car is run on a rolling road type of dyno and exhaust samples are taken to test for hydro cabon and nox etc out of your tailpipe, a big cam and you'd be almost garaunteed to fail, poor ignition = fail, buring oil = fail, it's a rough test if your car is heavily modded or poorly maintained and you cant pay your dodgy mechanic mate to clear you, the test needs to be done by one of only two certified tes centres in the state.

If it were me I'd take the hit on a noisy exhaust, pay the relatively cheap fine and smile with the knowledge the car has a mafless tune and a number of other defects that you got away with, if you dont want to get defected dont modify it, or make sure you go to the lage lengths to modify legally, with all rlevant epa, rta and engineer certifications completed.

[Evman]

Getting EPA'd has been one of my main worries with my VE after two mate's got EPA'd last month when I already know my car is louder then there's. A reason why I won't be going a cam on my daily driver. EPA:flipoff:

If it's only the volume of the exhaust that's worrying you just get a quiet exhaust fitted. It's just a matter of fitting appropriate mufflers. Emissions is a different matter...

[LTH-00L]

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you say no to them revving the crap out of your car? What if you just take the keys and not give'm to them?

Not being a smart ass, just wondering...

Do we legally have to get the car tested if we're not breaking any road rules at the time we're pulled over?

[XLR8 V8]

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you say no to them revving the crap out of your car? What if you just take the keys and not give'm to them?

Not being a smart ass, just wondering...

Do we legally have to get the car tested if we're not breaking any road rules at the time we're pulled over?


My guess is you'd getting warned that you face a charge of hindering police. The charge might not stick based on the circumstances (you must be hindering Police from keeping the peace, preventing crime and protecting people or property from criminal injury or damage), but the slim chance of a $2500 fine or 6 months in prison would be enough for most to hand over the keys.
If you tell them you don't want them revving it they could impound it and seek a judge's order giving them permission to do so.

[r8ls1]

it does sound pathetic,worst thing in those situations is watching the endless stream of smoky , bald tyred shitheaps sail by the dozen totally ignored. dont blame the police they are only puppets being told what to do from more senior muppets further up the command chain .And then its the politicians that tell them what to do based on talkback radio opinions ,a frightening thought and a very sad state of affairs !

YES, and who's on the top of the food chain? Fact is the cops and politicians are all working for the Rothschild family, Rudd included. After all, the Rothschilds own the Reserve Bank of Australia, not the government.

In this circumstance you can blame the cops to a degree. The traffic cops that get their jollies hating on someone in a new car with 22's are a bunch of idiots, period. Even if they are told to do it, they could use their judgement and pick on someone else and bring in the same revenue. As said the "real" dangerous rust buckets are cruising past with bald tires and steering joints looser than Jenna Jameson.

[hallyoz]

What about those 'supertrap' type mufflers. Are they legal for normal road use?

[LTH-00L]

My guess is you'd getting warned that you face a charge of hindering police. The charge might not stick based on the circumstances (you must be hindering Police from keeping the peace, preventing crime and protecting people or property from criminal injury or damage), but the slim chance of a $2500 fine or 6 months in prison would be enough for most to hand over the keys.
If you tell them you don't want them revving it they could impound it and seek a judge's order giving them permission to do so.

But technically the police aren't carrying out the test, it's the EPA. Is there a specific law stating that drivers of motor vehicles in NSW must do as the EPA say?

[XLR8 V8]

But technically the police aren't carrying out the test, it's the EPA. Is there a specific law stating that drivers of motor vehicles in NSW must do as the EPA say?

I would expect that it's part of your requirements for registration with the RTA. If you do not comply with the EPA or do not pass you risk cancellation of rego.

[gmh308]

Yes ^^^^! For a car to be legal it must comply with ADR's. Onus is on owner to prove it is ADR compliant as manufactured. Police have a responsibility to police compliance with laws in general, EPA specifically "emissions" (noise/air) laws.

They could stop every car and random emissions test it, just like RBT. Would not be a good thing for public relations, policing of more "injurious" crimes and bear little fruit, so they dont.

If a car is modified, beyond certain guidelines which are different state to state, it needs an engineer's cert, with RTA endorsement to prove legality.

Seems there has been a run on modified cars across SA, VIC and NSW, and maybe QLD lately........

And if you are subject to a check, follow a saying a dearly departed mate of mine had "...if they ask you to jump, say how high officer.....". They are humans too, and a little respect does not go astray.

[LTH-00L]

Fair Enough, Point taken...

I just find it ridiculous that the law would allow authorities to treat people's cars this way! Especially when we don't treat our own cars this way and we pay for them.

Would they pay for repairs if something happened to go wrong in result of the test? - We pay rego, stamp duties, taxes, tolls and everything else we need to pay to get & keep our car on the road.. If they damage our cars should they not be held responsible?

They try tell us it’s a privilege to use the road where as in my opinion if you pay for something it is no long a privilege, it becomes a right! Just like when you buy something from a store!

[gmh308]

While the 75% throttle thing is probably harmless, it does sound kind of strange as if a car was driven from a standstill at 75% throttle (at least a V8 Commodore) it would probably light them up and pass the legal limit quite quickly. It is also not aligned with noise centric ADR specifics.

I guess there is a choice of going and getting an EPA managed noise test which is aligned to the ADR's, in conjunction with other poking and prodding, or just let the police execute on their instructions. They are simply doing their job after all. They have bosses breathing down their necks too.

Unfortunately, we play, we pay. Any aftermarket exhaust is technically not legal, and they have been leaving them alone for years, though the Harley's seem to get away with a lot..............:confused:.....which the population at large, and the police can hear in the next suburb. :rofl:

Emissions laws are policed a lot more tightly in the US, so we arent doing that bad.

[XLR8 V8]

Seriously guys, if your engine is that poorly maintained/tuned that a rev to 75% throttle while in park will break or damage it, then you are driving one scary POS that should be taken off the road for your own safety :eek:

[gmh308]

Seriously guys, if your engine is that poorly maintained/tuned that a rev to 75% throttle while in park will break or damage it, then you are driving one scary POS that should be taken off the road for your own safety :eek:

Good point yes......one missed shift and you drive over your engine! :confused:

[L76 SS]

Typical WANKER cops!! :flipoff: Just trying to justify there miserable existance! They never change! It often seems the younger the pigs are the more superior they 'think' they are.. quite a sad state of affairs indeed!!

[Wonky]

Typical WANKER cops!! :flipoff: Just trying to justify there miserable existance! They never change! It often seems the younger the pigs are the more superior they 'think' they are.. quite a sad state of affairs indeed!!

Nice one mate! :mad: I'm sure there are a few out there like that but in my over 36 years of driving I have never had a hassle with a cop. For much of that time I have also driven some real cop magnets eg. my current car, yet I have not been stopped once for many years for anything other than booze buses. In the past (the first few years after I got my licence) I got pulled over once for speeding and once for noise. Even though back then I was in modified vehicles the exchanges were very courteous and I was quickly on my way.

My experience over so long and driving so many "cop magnet" cars tells me that the people who experience problems with police are probably a) driving in a manner that draws attention to themselves b) driving in a known problem area c) immediately get the cop's back up with their attitude or d) just plain unlucky to get one of the few cops who really is a pr*ck.

I am no angel either - I just pick my place and time to bend the law. As someone said above "You play, you pay!". If I did happen to get done for noise then I really have no complaints as I know my car is over the legal limit by a fair bit.

[gmh308]

Virtually ditto ^^^^^.

Treat police with respect and beg if necessary. :) Necessary meaning whether they sprung you on the start line or not.......

If that goes against the grain, as it appears to above " :flipoff: ", track down some anger management. :)

[Party Pete]

I have to agree. Although I a sure there are some real cowboy cops out there who let the power go to their heads, my experience (which has been pretty limited I might add, I don't go looking for trouble) is that they are generally pretty reasonable if you are reasonable with them. The thing is, there are a lot of them and like any large group of people there will be all types from incompetent/power crazed or even corrupt to some of the nicest and most reasonable people you will meet. My problem isn't the people generally, but the system which has given such enormous powers through draconian laws sold to the public as being necessary to stop extreme behaviour. Unfortunately, it was always inevitable that they instead would be misused by individuals. The problem is, the media and state governments have managed to sell this inage of the streets being filled with these hoons risking everyones life by drag racing their high powered cars in the street. Of course they exist, but the approach taken has been to try and crush the will of anyone to modify their cars and enjoy them. Tough times at the moment if you like modified cars. We are currently being marginalised from the motoring society and I only see it getting worse unless motoring enthusiasts somehow manage to band together and get some political voice.

[vyc4b]

Typical WANKER cops!! :flipoff: Just trying to justify there miserable existance! They never change! It often seems the younger the pigs are the more superior they 'think' they are.. quite a sad state of affairs indeed!!

Yeah typical all right..............ya wanker.
I had two of Victoria's Finest help put a Cam + bolt on's into my car.
When you grow up you'll soon realise that they are NO different to ALL other Grown ups'............
The only thing sad is an attitude like yours.

[Fiver]

The problem to me IS modified car owners.

Yes I'll put on my flame proof suit right now cause I know that comment will upset more than a few people here...

How many of the modified car owners that you know can actually drive well? I dont mean pedalling the car to a ten second 1/4 mile, I mean around corners, in the wet, good depth perception, able to mix it with a decent driver around a proper race track? Over looking that how many of them have had some formal or informal driver training above a basic level or spent some time learning about how to control thier cars on a skidpan or race track?

There are so many guys and girls out there modifying thier cars well outisde the legal requirements - Purely to make them more powerful, or to look different, many of these people are not using that extra power on a track or dyno comp. Sure some of the cars might be "safer" but the majority of them are bending the rules at best if not breaking them directly which then raises the issue of voided insurance policies in teh case of an accident...

It's not that hard to see why modified car owners get a hard time - Like the cops, there are genuine people among us and straight out tossers...:soap:

[R8CHEV]

I think if you give the cops some respect and most of the time they will give it back....
Ill be the first to admit I can be a lead foot at times and have been caught doing some DUMB shit.
Every time im pulled up I say hello call them mamm sir whatever the case and listen to what they have to say...

Funny thing is though the times ive been caught doing the bad things like burnouts and stupid overtaking Ive been given the slap on the wrist and sent on my way...
Luckily the times ive been caught by the ones in a bad mood its only been little things like giving a little squirt merging onto a highway, just happened to be an undercover car that i was merging infront of.
And doing a few k's over in a 60 zone which aint hard to do...(I should know ive been caught a couple of times haha)
I have served my time without a license and I dont wanna get back in that boat again

Luckily so far they havnt checked the legality of my car, but I live in fear for the day that comes...... Very expensive day that will be indeed.

Cheers, Brett

[duke5700]

The problem to me IS modified car owners.

Yes I'll put on my flame proof suit right now cause I know that comment will upset more than a few people here...

How many of the modified car owners that you know can actually drive well? I dont mean pedalling the car to a ten second 1/4 mile, I mean around corners, in the wet, good depth perception, able to mix it with a decent driver around a proper race track? Over looking that how many of them have had some formal or informal driver training above a basic level or spent some time learning about how to control thier cars on a skidpan or race track?

There are so many guys and girls out there modifying thier cars well outisde the legal requirements - Purely to make them more powerful, or to look different, many of these people are not using that extra power on a track or dyno comp. Sure some of the cars might be "safer" but the majority of them are bending the rules at best if not breaking them directly which then raises the issue of voided insurance policies in teh case of an accident...

It's not that hard to see why modified car owners get a hard time - Like the cops, there are genuine people among us and straight out tossers...:soap:


I think maybe the question you could be asking is how many drivers of any vehicle modified or not can actually drive a car. Modified or not they are a lethal weapon. Its still up to two tonnes hurtling along a road at whatever speed they choose to drive at. I would hazard a guess here and say that if you took the percentage of non-modified car owners and who had done a advanced driving course and then modfied owners who have done a advanced driving course surely the percentage would be higher for modified car owners.

Anyway much off orignal thread topic.

PS FWIW I have had a couple(2) of numnuts Coppers over the years of driving (8 years) and in probably the 20 or 30 times Ive been pulled over. So 3% total coppers Ive met are knobs. Its probably a safer bet that you will meet a normal copper than you will meet a normal person.

[R8CHEV]

I think maybe the question you could be asking is how many drivers of any vehicle modified or not can actually drive a car. Modified or not they are a lethal weapon. Its still up to two tonnes hurtling along a road at whatever speed they choose to drive at. I would hazard a guess here and say that if you took the percentage of non-modified car owners and who had done a advanced driving course and then modfied owners who have done a advanced driving course surely the percentage would be higher for modified car owners.

Anyway much off orignal thread topic.

I agree with that 100% alot of dick heads on the road these days....

The thing that annoys me the most about any driver.... why cant people FREAKIN merge!!!!!???
haha seriously so many poeple will just cut people straight off... even if that means that car has to then stop and stop all the cars behind it and then someone in the flowing traffic will stop and let people cut in therefore... traffic jam is born all for one bitch in a BMW SUV...

sorry guys ranting and thats even further off the topic again...
wooh needed to vent I live in sydney haha

Brett

[r8ls1]

I have to agree. Although I a sure there are some real cowboy cops out there who let the power go to their heads, my experience (which has been pretty limited I might add, I don't go looking for trouble) is that they are generally pretty reasonable if you are reasonable with them. The thing is, there are a lot of them and like any large group of people there will be all types from incompetent/power crazed or even corrupt to some of the nicest and most reasonable people you will meet. My problem isn't the people generally, but the system which has given such enormous powers through draconian laws sold to the public as being necessary to stop extreme behaviour. Unfortunately, it was always inevitable that they instead would be misused by individuals. The problem is, the media and state governments have managed to sell this inage of the streets being filled with these hoons risking everyones life by drag racing their high powered cars in the street. Of course they exist, but the approach taken has been to try and crush the will of anyone to modify their cars and enjoy them. Tough times at the moment if you like modified cars. We are currently being marginalised from the motoring society and I only see it getting worse unless motoring enthusiasts somehow manage to band together and get some political voice.
Good post.

But the reputation they are giving modded cars and hoons are the least people should be worried about. Your state for example, that Ran doesn't get any worse with his "illegal" draconian laws. He should go around with a billboard strapped to his head saying "Rothschild fills my back pockets". That fool would have half the state in jail for j walking if they offered him the money to build one big enough, as obviously he can no longer get enough money from the tax payers.

It's simple. The aussie cops are the aussie politicians 'foot' soldiers. And the aussie politicians are the elite bankers "Rothschild and Rockefeller families" 'suit' soldiers. The Rockefellers started their oil fortune in the USA in 1800's. They now own most of the petroleum companies around the world, the US federal reserve, etc. The Rothschilds (Jewish) own most of the banks and money elsewhere around the world, including most top aussie banks and the Reserve Bank of Australia. The government is just a front for these 'private' families.

It all works just like a game of "age of empires", once they defeat one country, they move onto the next. Anyone that doesnt hand themselves over they label a "terrorist" and take them by force.

What does this have to do with hoons, hoons are just another small part in zombifiying us all. They have just about taken our country, about the only thing they dont own a big slice of is food / agriculture and water, but these people are way too smart for the average joe, they have perpetrated the whole "global warming" hoax to cover that, so they're on their way bankrupting farmers and owning all the food and water that we eat.

UNITED WATER in SA is the first water utility in Australia to be sold to these people. United Water is now owned by Halliburton KBR. The same Halliburton Dick Cheney was CEO of. The same Halliburton that got $12 billion worth of exclusive defense contracts for work in Iraq. Don't think im making this stuff up, it's listed on SA Waters own website.

Anyone that backs the government or police for hassling a "HOON", just doesn't have a clue how the current world really works.

[duke5700]

Oh wow you need a day job

[r8ls1]

Oh wow you need a day job
Haven't you got some pipeline to monitor? If I had to guess linked in some way to one of the companies that I critised.

[duke5700]

Unlucky for you Im on there side. Its kind of like a pipeline but instead of the country dieing in weeks I could kill it in an hour. Lucky Im a nice bloke. Less psycho and more EPA comments.

[r8ls1]

Unlucky for you Im on there side. Its kind of like a pipeline but instead of the country dieing in weeks I could kill it in an hour. Lucky Im a nice bloke. Less psycho and more EPA comments.
Their side? :roflmao: In your dreams buddy. You and me both know you only have the authority to do what your told. Funny how I hit a nerve.

BTW, learn how to spell. Their side, not there side.

[duke5700]

fanks for tha gramma leson. Your still a psycho.

Unlike you if I wanted to make the wrong decision I could do something. You are just helpless and other than rant on a forum really offer no real foot hold in the world other than to be an oxygen thief. The only real EPA issue here is what is coming out of your mouth and the fact it may be poisonous to those less intelligent. Maybe if you are lucky some halfwit will read what you wrote and maybe you and him can go and join a cult and sing koombyahh my lord till the cows come home. I’m not really sure what sect leaders do these days. I take pride in the fact that I supply people with a necessity and would do what it takes to keep it available for them.

End Rant I’m going to bed.

PS On with the EPA discussion.....

[r8ls1]

fanks for tha gramma leson. Your still a psycho.

Unlike you if I wanted to make the wrong decision I could do something. You are just helpless and other than rant on a forum really offer no real foot hold in the world other than to be an oxygen thief. The only real EPA issue here is what is coming out of your mouth and the fact it may be poisonous to those less intelligent. Maybe if you are lucky some halfwit will read what you wrote and maybe you and him can go and join a cult and sing koombyahh my lord till the cows come home. I’m not really sure what sect leaders do these days. I take pride in the fact that I supply people with a necessity and would do what it takes to keep it available for them.

End Rant I’m going to bed.

PS On with the EPA discussion.....
Whatever makes you feel better. Everything I said in my post, IS FACT.

And then you come in here and quote my post and then ADMIT you work for these people, shows me how intelligent you are for admitting it and making me look vindicated.

Need I continue??? I dont care what you provide, obviously it's water or electricity. FACT is the people who are taking over all of Australias natural resources are playing dirty, and don't give a shit about me, you or the next fool.

Next time you want to call somebody a psycho, you better research the facts first, not jump to conclusions based on fiction.

[duke5700]

Obviously sarcasm being the lowest form of wit, the I work for them comment went over your head. I only have one last thing to add to this.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ4CweGjUVM)

It is a discussion regarding EPA and cars please stop talking rubbish. If you want to talk conspiracy theories go and start a thread in the tar pit. It where all and sundry go and talk about anything from how there cat died to their girlfriend left them. That is right about where this belongs. NOT GENERAL AUTOMOTIVE in a thread about the EPA. Your wasting mine and everyone elses time.

[r8ls1]

It is a discussion regarding EPA and cars please stop talking rubbish. If you want to talk conspiracy theories go and start a thread in the tar pit.
You chose to get yourself into this argument by being a smart ass. You could have read my post, and thought what you wanted in your own little mind.

conspiracy theories? :lmao: mate you get dumber by the day. Halliburton buying Australia's water utilities is a FACT. Australias farmers being screwed so companies like Halliburton can sell farming water at inflated prices to the cities, instead of building other means (like recycled, storm water catchment plants, etc), FACT.

Melbourne pipeline taking 75 billion litres of murray water from farmers who put food on YOUR table, FACT. Don't ask me, ask Nick Zenophon and Barnaby Joice who are in the senate. They are saying the same thing.

You should stop now because I can take you to school. Unlike you I have a day job but I have my own business where I have spare time to THINK for myself, not what my boss or the TV tell me to think.

As for the sarcasm on who you work for, nice back peddle. How's the weather up there at the Snowy :)

[duke5700]

Someone close this thread its just silly. WTF has this got to do with EPA and car emmisions? Nice try on who I work for, but wrong. Snowy provide peak generation only and if they went off line tommorow the eastern seaboard would continue to turn. Obviously someone does watch to much TV and is ignorant. If you ask the general populous where they get there energy from the reply is Snowy Hydro.

MODS please put this thread on topic. Lets talk about cars.

[r8ls1]

I dont care who you work for, I got my point across. The fact is that you can't argue any of my points with any form of proof that what I have said is false.

I supply consumers with a product too, difference is I do it without stealing it from other hard working families.

Lets agree to disagree.....

[duke5700]

The only agreement here is that your mentally challenged and I still don't see what tangible thread you have grasped at to spew all this irrelevant info out. I'm not arguing the point with you. I'm arguing that a) you are an oxygen thief and b) your wasting everyones time and valuable server space. Mate rant all you want about who is running the world. It means diddly squat to me, but at least go to www.theworldisaconspiracy.com/forum and talk with like minded people.

TALK ABOUT CARS OR GTFO

[r8ls1]

The only agreement here is that your mentally challenged and I still don't see what tangible thread you have grasped at to spew all this irrelevant info out. I'm not arguing the point with you. I'm arguing that a) you are an oxygen thief and b) your wasting everyones time and valuable server space. Mate rant all you want about who is running the world. It means diddly squat to me, but at least go to www.theworldisaconspiracy.com/forum and talk with like minded people.

TALK ABOUT CARS OR GTFO

Again with the conspiracies :rofl: It is you who is mentally challenged because you don't know the definition of 'conspiracy'.

You know your defeated so your trying to cry to the moderators to have the thread deleted.

Obviously you can't let it go, so it's going to get to that point.

Need I remind people that YOU chose to begin this, you obviously have an agenda. Continue on .....

[FAT06L]

Well people, the car passed easily! just bolted on the stock rear mufflers and the thing quietened down 16db! shows you how restrictive the suckers are!

[GODSMACK]

The only agreement here is that your mentally challenged and I still don't see what tangible thread you have grasped at to spew all this irrelevant info out. I'm not arguing the point with you. I'm arguing that a) you are an oxygen thief and b) your wasting everyones time and valuable server space. Mate rant all you want about who is running the world. It means diddly squat to me, but at least go to www.theworldisaconspiracy.com/forum and talk with like minded people.

TALK ABOUT CARS OR GTFO


Again with the conspiracies :rofl: It is you who is mentally challenged because you don't know the definition of 'conspiracy'.

You know your defeated so your trying to cry to the moderators to have the thread deleted.

Obviously you can't let it go, so it's going to get to that point.

Need I remind people that YOU chose to begin this, you obviously have an agenda. Continue on .....
The two of you should STFU already... :soap:

[r8ls1]

Well people, the car passed easily! just bolted on the stock rear mufflers and the thing quietened down 16db! shows you how restrictive the suckers are!
That was easy, good to hear! :merry:

[GODSMACK]

Well people, the car passed easily! just bolted on the stock rear mufflers and the thing quietened down 16db! shows you how restrictive the suckers are! Now you can put the others ones back on...LOL :goodjob:

[JezzaB]

Ive never had a problem with police. Maybe its where I live or the way I drive or whatever, who knows. Been pulled up once and I was being silly (doing a 4 lane drift onto a completely empty highway @ 7am on the way to work isnt a good idea even if there is no one around except for a hidden police car) and we had a chat I think he could understand I wasnt impressing anyone coz it was just me in the ute and no one for miles.

He was good enough to let me go and direct me to where I could do that kind of thing as he said he does it too on weekends down there. Great bloke, and YOUNG. But I was prepared to cop anything that he threw at me.

Ive had friends that seem to be "targeted" they say but usually they are making their presence on the road well and truely known to those around them.

Just my 2c.

Jez

[Toddler78]

Ive never had a problem with police. Maybe its where I live or the way I drive or whatever, who knows. Been pulled up once and I was being silly (doing a 4 lane drift onto a completely empty highway @ 7am on the way to work isnt a good idea even if there is no one around except for a hidden police car) and we had a chat I think he could understand I wasnt impressing anyone coz it was just me in the ute and no one for miles.

He was good enough to let me go and direct me to where I could do that kind of thing as he said he does it too on weekends down there. Great bloke, and YOUNG. But I was prepared to cop anything that he threw at me.

Ive had friends that seem to be "targeted" they say but usually they are making their presence on the road well and truely known to those around them.

Just my 2c.

Jez


but the main thing jez did you impress him :stick:

[Tecca]

but the main thing jez did you impress him :stick:

Haha! im wondering that too Jezz!!:)

[JezzaB]

but the main thing jez did you impress him :stick:

Maybe.... :p

[SV346]

He probably saw u coming and thought man if this bloke does a crap drift ill nail him :p

[FAT06L]

Now you can put the others ones back on...LOL :goodjob:


haha yeh drove it straight from the test station in roseville to artarmon to have the x force mufflers bolted back on! :jester:

[michaels1v8]

He probably saw u coming and thought man if this bloke does a crap drift ill nail him :p

Ahahahaha :goodjob:

[hard ride]

Another unpopular opinion, but I can appreciate why there's so much emphasis on noise pollution from motor vehicles.

I've been living in the Sydney CBD for the last few months near a fairly busy corner. You would probably be amazed how many loud exhausts there are. I mean f*ckin loud, you can hear still them on the other side of the city and some even send vibrations through my pillow.

Biggest offenders are bikes, not just harleys but sports bikes and even dirt bikes, next are the small engines with canon exhausts and closely followed by V8's. I reckon the cops would clean up if they set up a testing station here. Sometimes at 4am in the morning I feel like calling them in.

Personally I don't like loud exhausts but I do appreciate a nice note. When I had my car fitted with OTRCAI, X Force headers and twin 2.5, I thought it was too loud even though I asked for a quiet exhaust. I could hear my car from the lounge as it came down my street from about 100m away. Nice sound but the neigbours didn't appreciate their roof rattling when the car pulled into the garage.
I found out there was a quite version of the X Force so I had this bolted on. It was a bit quiter, but i could now hear my car approaching from a few doors away. To cut a long story short, after trying two more systems, I had Hitech make me an oversized rear muffler, still a straight through twin 2.5 but as big as would fit in the space.

The car still has a nice note but a little subdued. When I had the car re tuned it did show up a slight restriction above the original Xforce but this could be tuned out and no power was lost. Having had my rant now my exhaust still may be over the limit???, but it's certainly not a head turner unless the engine is screaming near the redline.

[LSavvy]

Mate you live in the CBD with high walls bouncing sounds everywhere, Wouldn't you expect to hear those noises day and night, bikes, ricers, buses, sirens etc etc, i think the blow off valves can get annoying after a while.

Would it help moving to a higher level.

You live in the best city in the world however on the flip side!

[hard ride]

Well people, the car passed easily! just bolted on the stock rear mufflers and the thing quietened down 16db! shows you how restrictive the suckers are!

Great result then, except for the fine.

Not sure if I missed a thread. What about the OTRCAI and cats, did you do anything about those for the inspection or weren't they interested?