Post your idle fuel usage with larger cam

[GTS_365]

Just wondering what litres per hour everyone's cammed car uses on idle? My car uses around 4 litres per hour in park, and 4.5 in drive. It idles at 850rpm. To me it seems a little high, but I'm not sure. It's a largish street cam, 224/230 with over 600 lift. I realize a large cam is inefficient and will drink a lot, but I'd like to compare to other cars.

Please post your cam size with your idle litres per hour (if you have instant fuel on your cluster).

Cheers

[macca33]

Dunno what mine is idling at presently, but at temp with A/C on it is 3.6l/hr.

On the last tune, it was idling at 840rpm A/C on - 3.4l/h and 825rpm A/C off at 3.2l/h.

M6 tranny - Cam is 224/228 .630+lift on 112+2lsa, with heads.

Cheers,

Macca

[HSVQUE]

between 4-5ltrs at idle.. Could be lower since retune but I havent checked.

[VIXEN-T]

lol wow V8 with a cam must suck the juice! mine sits at 1.9-2.0L/100km in drive at idle.

[macca33]

lol wow V8 with a cam must suck the juice! mine sits at 1.9-2.0L/100km in drive at idle.
I 'spose that is great if we just sit around and idle all day...:stick:

Seriously though, I drove a mates stock XR6T (BA) for a week to and from work and my car uses less fuel and has heaps more power.

Cheers

[GMMAD]

mine sits on around 3.6 could be a little lower but made it a bit richer to give it a bit more lump
cam is 222/224

[VIXEN-T]

I 'spose that is great if we just sit around and idle all day...:stick:

Seriously though, I drove a mates stock XR6T (BA) for a week to and from work and my car uses less fuel and has heaps more power.

Cheers

yeh stock they drink a fair bit but a tune actually gives them much better fuel economy and sh1tloads more power. I get well over 400km per tank but thats stop start driving on a fwy run i averaged 11.8L/100km not bad for a 400rwhp 1800kg sedan.

[macca33]

Similar to mine actually - both in output and fuel usage, I've had as low as 9.6lt/100 on a long country trip - 500+k's, but on a usual country to metro freeway trip, back and forth to work with light urban driving included, it is around 11.5-12.5/100.

If only the wowsers knew that these things can be fairly frugal, they wouldn't whinge so much and want a Prius...:spew:

Cheers

[SirNemesis]

3.2L/hour @ 1000rpm, aircon off. 220/220/112 with basic tune (AFR's still need work).

[VIXEN-T]

Similar to mine actually - both in output and fuel usage, I've had as low as 9.6lt/100 on a long country trip - 500+k's, but on a usual country to metro freeway trip, back and forth to work with light urban driving included, it is around 11.5-12.5/100.

If only the wowsers knew that these things can be fairly frugal, they wouldn't whinge so much and want a Prius...:spew:

Cheers

well thats exactly right and driving a little 4banger u tend to push it harder to get it going which uses more petrol! I used to drive a 2.0litre galant and used to get less km per tank than i do with the XR6T and only 8litres difference between the 2 cars fuel tanks.

[GTS_365]

between 4-5ltrs at idle.. Could be lower since retune but I havent checked.

What size cam?

[OVRTAQ]

will find out some more details n post em up .. but i know our VY SS with a cam 228/230 and mafless tune... have had fuel usage down to a very low 6.8L/100km.. thats on the open road, cruise control on....:rofl:

[white lie]

Crane 23X/24X with a touch over .600" lift and it jumps around 5.5-6L/hr air con off, warm idle in my GTS.

[smokey777]

well thats exactly right and driving a little 4banger u tend to push it harder to get it going which uses more petrol!! I used to drive a 2.0litre galant and used to get less km per tank than i do with the XR6T and only 8litres difference between the 2 cars fuel tanks.

ya inbetween "real" cars lol i was driving an 99 lancer coupe i used more fuel in it than i do in my SS also the SS is cheaper on insurance lol. i tell ya that 2door rule is crap

[JaMeS_2007]

cam is a 231 235 @112 with over 6000 lift and it sits around 3.8. also with head work

[leevysv8]

I don't have any idle fuel usage figure, but I can tell u that my VY with a cam uses 10.5l/100km around town and 7.7l/100km on the highway. My oxy sensors have been change since and the economy has improved around town.

I reckon that 7.7l/100km figure is set to fall on the next long trip. My cam has over 600 thou lift and makes peak power at 6500 rpm.

I reckon my tuner knows what he is doing!

T:goodjob:hanks Enhanced Automotive.

[VZLAD]

Whats the sense of this thread ???? an idle comp ? WHAT THE ????:spew:

[macca33]

What's the sense of bothering to post if you have nothing to add??? :weirdo:

[macca_779]

For my 220/220 113LSA cam I return 3.1L/hr with the A/C on and up to temp. 2.8 with the A/C off. That's idling in closed loop with 27 degrees of base timing. I can get it lower with more timing but doing so looses the ability to control idle speed with spark correction.

The higher the LSA the better idle economy will usually be due to better VE and more vacuum.

[HSVQUE]

What size cam?

custom grind :D

[BLACK 346]

I don't have any idle fuel usage figure, but I can tell u that my VY with a cam uses 10.5l/100km around town and 7.7l/100km on the highway. My oxy sensors have been change since and the economy has improved around town.

I reckon that 7.7l/100km figure is set to fall on the next long trip. My cam has over 600 thou lift and makes peak power at 6500 rpm.

I reckon my tuner knows what he is doing!

T:goodjob:hanks Enhanced Automotive.

Brad has got yours using 10.5 around town, wtf? If mine dips into the
16's on the run from Northgate to Edinburgh (not exactly bumper to
bumper city driving) then I throw a ****ing party :confused:

[HRT 8]

will find out some more details n post em up .. but i know our VY SS with a cam 228/230 and mafless tune... have had fuel usage down to a very low 6.8L/100km.. thats on the open road, cruise control on....:rofl:
Unless your going downhill then theres no way in hell thats achievable.

[HSV271]

@ Idle... 850rpm

Stock with Air con off = 2.7L/Hr
Stock with Air con on = 2.9L/Hr

With Cam Aircon off = 3.2L/Hr
With Cam Aircon on = 3.4L/Hr

[MYTO8]

if you can trust dash 233/233 .600 lift 4-4.1 at idle, Around town inc plenty of small trips and stop start 16l/100- 30l/100 highway 9-9.2l/100 on cruise. i had tried many things to legitimately lower it eg afr timing lean cruise etc.When the car was stock 10.6 was the best it would get on highway.I have seen tunes cheat and make it look better then it is tweaking injector scale to reduce inj m/s. Also i have seen people change dash fuel and odo calibrations to enhance the figure eg 6.8l/100. best i have had a std vx v6 to is 7.1lt/100

The only true way to get accurate reading is fuel put in tank to km traveled and calc out

[FITZY777]

Mines a 232/234 cam, just under .600 lift and 112 LSA, I think.

Idles at about 900rpms @ 4.5 l/ph, air con on and engine warm and idle settled from start-up.

The town I live in (Adelaide), I get 21 l/100kms @ average 35.9 kmph. Thats driving from home to work and back in peak hr traffic every day, mainly in 2nd & 3rd gears. A trip to Melb gets me about 11 l/100kms.

This must be a mistake........


my VY with a cam uses 10.5l/100km around town ... My cam has over 600 thou lift and makes peak power at 6500 rpm.

That would be around about the same size cam as mine, I make peak power (327.4 rwkw on Dyno Dynamics OR 298.5 on a Mainline) at around about that rpm also.

My tuner also knows what he is doing, the AFR's are pretty well spot on and it drives like a dream.

I cant imagine getting anywhere near 10.5l/100km around town !!

[berroca]

My tuner also knows what he is doing, the AFR's are pretty well spot on and it drives like a dream.


you reckon???
from what i've heard he is an accountant who blows up transmissions from using the wrong pressures, and also likes to leave the cars he tunes pinging off their brain

:rofl:

[BLACK 346]

you reckon???
from what i've heard he is an accountant who blows up transmissions from using the wrong pressures, and also likes to leave the cars he tunes pinging off their brain

:rofl:

Wouldn't mind a buck for everytime I have heard something bad about
a tuner on here, I can't think of one that has gone unscathed from
some sort of innuendo. Is this bloke even on here to defend himself?

[FITZY777]

you reckon???
from what i've heard he is an accountant who blows up transmissions from using the wrong pressures, and also likes to leave the cars he tunes pinging off their brain

:rofl:

No, I am the accountant !!

Dont have an Auto.

And no pinging here.

Dont believe all you hear, the Adelaide tuning scene is like an excerpt from a year 9 all girls school lunch break..

P.S.

My comment was not a shot by any means at any tuner (I am not at a Yr 9 all girls school).

Just simply pointing out that I cant see it being possible getting 10.5 l/100 in a big cammed car around town !!

[VIXEN-T]

ya inbetween "real" cars lol

that makes 2 of us dont worry we'll get our lambos one day :)

[sikss]

No, I am the accountant !!

Dont have an Auto.

And no pinging here.

Dont believe all you hear, the Adelaide tuning scene is like an excerpt from a year 9 all girls school lunch break..

P.S.

My comment was not a shot by any means at any tuner (I am not at a Yr 9 all girls school).

Just simply pointing out that I cant see it being possible getting 10.5 l/100 in a big cammed car around town !!

bit hard to not believe what you hear when you know the people that these things have happened to. In my opinion you get your tax done by an accountant and your car tuned by a mechanic/tuner not the other way round.

[berroca]

Wouldn't mind a buck for everytime I have heard something bad about
a tuner on here, I can't think of one that has gone unscathed from
some sort of innuendo. Is this bloke even on here to defend himself?


no innuendo here
just plain facts

[FITZY777]

In my opinion you get your tax done by an accountant and your car tuned by a mechanic/tuner not the other way round.


Are you asking me to do your tax Daniel ?? :lol:

[sikss]

haha, cheers for the offer but ive already got a good accountant.

[FITZY777]

haha, cheers for the offer but ive already got a good accountant.


Oh okay, wonder if thats the same guy that tunes my car....:stick:

[Hellbent]

Maybe i should start a thread with fuel figures at WOT!!!

Now that would be more interesting :)

[HSVQUE]

Maybe i should start a thread with fuel figures at WOT!!!

Now that would be more interesting :)

my dash doesnt read that high lol

[NefariousLS1]

Maybe i should start a thread with fuel figures at WOT!!!

Now that would be more interesting :)

Stok and ive seen 99.9 lol

[leevysv8]

Brad has got yours using 10.5 around town, wtf? If mine dips into the
16's on the run from Northgate to Edinburgh (not exactly bumper to
bumper city driving) then I throw a ****ing party :confused:

Black 346, I can tell you I have no idea why my fuel usage is lower than yours. My car is in fact using less than when it was stock! There may be less stop starting on the roads I drive on, (Waterlooo Cnr Road, Curtis Rd, Heaslip Rd, Salisbury Highway etc) but then again I have been into the city and driven home and I still get that economy.

I am not trying to rub salt into the wounds, but my package may be just more efficient than yours! Makes 285kw on his Mainline!

I know that he does have a pretty aggressive tune in my car which he says will use less fuel but is harder to drive. Also if you do not have his OTR on there, this may have something to do with it!

Maybe u should talk to him about it and see if he can get it more economical for u. I can tell you know though, if u don't want to put up with a car that might be harder to drive, then don't ask him for this tune!

Brad told me that I would use 17l/100km around town too, but it has never happened!

[BLACK 346]

Black 346, I can tell you I have no idea why my fuel usage is lower than yours. My car is in fact using less than when it was stock! There may be less stop starting on the roads I drive on, (Waterlooo Cnr Road, Curtis Rd, Heaslip Rd, Salisbury Highway etc) but then again I have been into the city and driven home and I still get that economy.

I am not trying to rub salt into the wounds, but my package may be just more efficient than yours! Makes 285kw on his Mainline!

I know that he does have a pretty aggressive tune in my car which he says will use less fuel but is harder to drive. Also if you do not have his OTR on there, this may have something to do with it!

Maybe u should talk to him about it and see if he can get it more economical for u. I can tell you know though, if u don't want to put up with a car that might be harder to drive, then don't ask him for this tune!

Brad told me that I would use 17l/100km around town too, but it has never happened!

No worries mate, I was one of, if not his first LS1 cam, done in the
driveway and tuned over a couple of weeks (prior to the nice
business premises and dyno that he has now). My car has always
read a bit lower than others, but is very easy to drive imo. I do
sneak into the 10's on the flat road, but 16's is the norm for stop
start driving where my average speed is 40kmh :)
I have been told I have the same cam as Bradsv8, the one that
has pulled 11.7 and 10 point something on the gas. It is a Crow
Cam for what it is worth.
And no, I dont have his otrcai, I have a Sureflo one.
Also, dont worry about the salt, I am very thick skinned.
Cheers
Rod

[leevysv8]

Yeah no worries Rod. My cam is in fact different to BradSV8's cam. I was thinking after I did my post that the cam may have something to do with it.

It think that my cam has more lift that BradSV8's but the lobe separation and duration are different as well.

There could be any number of factors that are effecting the economy, you would never know where to start.

Just a thought, have you tried changing your Oxygen sensors? Brad changed mine the other week and my car is running better.

I reckon he actually put my OTRCAI on your car while I was there!

For some reason my car just gets really good economy. Even Brad couldn't believe what I was getting on the highway. He nearly fell over when I told him that I get 7.7l/100km.-Before the oxygen sensors were changed!

[BLACK 346]

Yeah no worries Rod. My cam is in fact different to BradSV8's cam. I was thinking after I did my post that the cam may have something to do with it.

It think that my cam has more lift that BradSV8's but the lobe separation and duration are different as well.

There could be any number of factors that are effecting the economy, you would never know where to start.

Just a thought, have you tried changing your Oxygen sensors? Brad changed mine the other week and my car is running better.

I reckon he actually put my OTRCAI on your car while I was there!

For some reason my car just gets really good economy. Even Brad couldn't believe what I was getting on the highway. He nearly fell over when I told him that I get 7.7l/100km.-Before the oxygen sensors were changed!

That is awesome mate, you get to have your cake and eat it.
Reminds me of an old Billy Connolly saying, "what is the point of
having a ****ing cake, if you can't eat it" lol.
Yeah, Brad sent some new Bosch O2's up to Darwin for me 2 years
ago, prior to us relocating here.

[leevysv8]

Mines a 232/234 cam, just under .600 lift and 112 LSA, I think.

Idles at about 900rpms @ 4.5 l/ph, air con on and engine warm and idle settled from start-up.

The town I live in (Adelaide), I get 21 l/100kms @ average 35.9 kmph. Thats driving from home to work and back in peak hr traffic every day, mainly in 2nd & 3rd gears. A trip to Melb gets me about 11 l/100kms.

This must be a mistake........



That would be around about the same size cam as mine, I make peak power (327.4 rwkw on Dyno Dynamics OR 298.5 on a Mainline) at around about that rpm also.

My tuner also knows what he is doing, the AFR's are pretty well spot on and it drives like a dream.

I cant imagine getting anywhere near 10.5l/100km around town !!

I have no reason to lie. My car gets 10.5l/100km around town.-End of story. There is more to fuel economy than what cam you have. You will also see that my car uses less fuel than yours on the open road.

I reckon you should talk to your tuner, you may have a problem. the worst economy I ever got around town was 12l/100km when my car was stock. I believe the AFR's dip into the 10's on stock cars, so there is room for improvement there.

You could alway come for a ride in my car if you don't believe me, of course that would mean facing the truth!

[SSINISTER]

this is a dumb question but how do u check the fuel usage on idle? cheers

[FOON]

Read the Instant fuel usage on your trip meter while idling in drive or neutral

[FITZY777]

I have no reason to lie. My car gets 10.5l/100km around town.-End of story. There is more to fuel economy than what cam you have. You will also see that my car uses less fuel than yours on the open road.

I reckon you should talk to your tuner, you may have a problem. the worst economy I ever got around town was 12l/100km when my car was stock. I believe the AFR's dip into the 10's on stock cars, so there is room for improvement there.

You could alway come for a ride in my car if you don't believe me, of course that would mean facing the truth!

WTF is it with you fella's.

I did not suggest that you were lying, just possibly that you had made a mistake when you typed in 10.5.

I was getting around 18-19 l/100 drivin to work and back when it was stock, so I am not complaining about 20-21 now.

And yeah mate, I would come for a cruise with ya, and you could with me. Its not about facing the truth, its about enjoying nice cars. Simple.

Cheers

P.S. That 'facing the truth comment' sounds a bit familiar !!!

[macca_779]

WTF is it with you fella's.

I did not suggest that you were lying, just possibly that you had made a mistake when you typed in 10.5.

I was getting around 18-19 l/100 drivin to work and back when it was stock, so I am not complaining about 20-21 now.

And yeah mate, I would come for a cruise with ya, and you could with me. Its not about facing the truth, its about enjoying nice cars. Simple.

Cheers

P.S. That 'facing the truth comment' sounds a bit familiar !!!

Meh I'll go out on a limb and say he's full of it without sugercoating it. The figures suggested are simply not realistic for anything but the most sedate cam. With over .600 lift its highly doubtful that the cam is under 218 duration so to be able to return a 7.7L/100 on the highway and 10.5L/100 around town is frankly impossible.. Hell I can get events of mid 6's on the highway.. But its hardly an average.


Leevysv8. How are you checking this anyway. You might want to verify your trip computer for accuracy (read user manual) as I'm yet to see a commodore with a correctly calibrated one from factory. From my experience they always read optimistic.

[IR8]

With myself thinking of future cam/heads I don't think any judgment can really be made on figures as stated above.... Just with my edit alone on the hway I get 8L/100km then around town short drives 13-16L/100km.... But the thing I do judge the most is to reset the trip meter every time I fill up which i feel tells me more.... if lucky round town full tank 400- 450km on highway 550+km.....

[RED R8]

Mine sits at around 5.6 at idle and averages about 19L/100 around town with an average speed of about 28kph...all my driving is short sharp trips but it can drop rapidly with some freeway work. Today cruising on the freeway at 100kph in sixth it was hovering between 9-11 L/100.

[dyno junkie]

228 228 113 0.581" Comp Cam
Idles somwhere in the mid to low 5l/h

[Plums]

I don't have any idle fuel usage figure, but I can tell u that my VY with a cam uses 10.5l/100km around town and 7.7l/100km on the highway. My oxy sensors have been change since and the economy has improved around town.

I reckon that 7.7l/100km figure is set to fall on the next long trip. My cam has over 600 thou lift and makes peak power at 6500 rpm.

I reckon my tuner knows what he is doing!

T:goodjob:hanks Enhanced Automotive.

Over 600 K's out of a tank around town is bloody impressive.... Over 900 K's on the highway is absolutely fantastic.

The Holden execs will pay you huge dollars (probably in the millions) if you can replicate these economy figures for the next release Commodore.

[OVRTAQ]

Unless your going downhill then theres no way in hell thats achievable.

oh but it is.. even got some pics to prove it...:confused::confused::confused:

will dig em out.... comes down to the tune....

[macca_779]

oh but it is.. even got some pics to prove it...:confused::confused::confused:

will dig em out.... comes down to the tune....

Lol I think he is well aware of when it comes down to the tune.. He's a tuner after all.

Like I said before too. I can obtain mid 6L/100 events too.. But its not an average by any means.

I think alot of people need to get their hands off themselves and be realistic.

[sikss]

Oh okay, wonder if thats the same guy that tunes my car....:stick:

nah with his slap dash attitude towards tuning id prolly end up in jail if he did my tax, lol

[Marcus Cole]

I know this is a Holden site, but i thought i'd post anyway,
I have a stock BF Typhoon and after a warm up and sittin
in Park i get around 1.7 litres per hour, my average fuel consumption
is around 11.5 litres per 100km which is a mix of highway and city 60/40.

[leevysv8]

Meh I'll go out on a limb and say he's full of it without sugercoating it. The figures suggested are simply not realistic for anything but the most sedate cam. With over .600 lift its highly doubtful that the cam is under 218 duration so to be able to return a 7.7L/100 on the highway and 10.5L/100 around town is frankly impossible.. Hell I can get events of mid 6's on the highway.. But its hardly an average.


Leevysv8. How are you checking this anyway. You might want to verify your trip computer for accuracy (read user manual) as I'm yet to see a commodore with a correctly calibrated one from factory. From my experience they always read optimistic.

Mate, my odomoeter has been checked on the dyno and there other cars from the same shop that get 8.0l/100km (with the same cam specs) on the highway. For you to say it is not possible, well how do you know?

The figures I quoted are read straight off the dash and are figures that have had over 50km to stabilise. Like I said in one of my other posts, if u don't believe me then come for a ride in my car!

[HSVQUE]

if u don't believe me then come for a ride in my car!

you just want him to ride in your car :jester:

It may be 8.0l/100km but who sez its safe! LoL

[leevysv8]

you just want him to ride in your car :jester:

It may be 8.0l/100km but who sez its safe! LoL

If its not safe the how come all of these engines are still alive and so are the drivers!


will find out some more details n post em up .. but i know our VY SS with a cam 228/230 and mafless tune... have had fuel usage down to a very low 6.8L/100km.. thats on the open road, cruise control on....:rofl:

You guys reckon my 7.7l/100km is not possible, and yet this guy gets better economy and his car makes more power. I don't think I need to say any more. I can't work out why its is such a big deal if one person gets better economy than the other anyway.

As OVRTAQ says, it all comes down to the tune!

[macca_779]

Mate, my odomoeter has been checked on the dyno and there other cars from the same shop that get 8.0l/100km (with the same cam specs) on the highway. For you to say it is not possible, well how do you know?

The figures I quoted are read straight off the dash and are figures that have had over 50km to stabilise. Like I said in one of my other posts, if u don't believe me then come for a ride in my car!

Your odometer has little to do with the L/100 calculation on the dash. I gather you are reading the average fuel L/100km. The figure I was referring to for calibration is not the odometer but rather the fuel used cal. Basically for this cal you reset your fuel used calc. Fill up to the brim. Do a couple more fills noting how much the pump says and then compare it to what the trip computer says you've used.. You then adjust to make them match. I'll bet good money that the car says you've used less than the pump.. As every commodore I've ever done this on has.


If its not safe the how come all of these engines are still alive and so are the drivers!



You guys reckon my 7.7l/100km is not possible, and yet this guy gets better economy and his car makes more power. I don't think I need to say any more. I can't work out why its is such a big deal if one person gets better economy than the other anyway.

As OVRTAQ says, it all comes down to the tune!

Yeah he's dreaming even more than you.



If its not safe the how come all of these engines are still alive and so are the drivers!


Your kidding right. I'll wave that because your new but there is at least one built engine that I know of that has grenaded. Big fuss about it 6 or so months ago.

[leevysv8]

Yep no worries MACCA779. Thanks for your feed back.

Like I said before, does it really matter if one person uses less fuel than the other?

The other week I drove to my parents house which is over 200km away, I filled up when I left and when I got there my fuel gauge showed that I had used on eighth of a tank. Are you guys going to tell me that my fuel gauge is incorrect as well? If so, why aren't I running out of fuel all of the time? I zero my trip meter every time I fill up. I have the single window type as listed in the owners handbook.

An eighth of a tank is about 9 litres and maybe another 6 for the amount you can fill over the full mark. That is 15 litres.

The trip was about 215 km, so I reckon the consumption isn't too far off what it is on the dash.

Even if I used 20 litres, that is still under 10l/100km. Again I can't really see what all the fuss is about.

I have heard heaps of horror stories about various tuners too, but not all of them are true. The cars that I mentioned from the same shop are still all running and still getting that economy and none of them have "built" engines. Anyway I don't really want to get into a slinging match about tuners. I am not interested! The main thing is that you are happy with the work that the workshop has done and if you are not then you go and speak to them about it and sort it out with them.

[BLACK 346]

Lee, the only true and accurate way to measure your useage is
from the pump. Fill the tank, Reset your odometer and then
next time you fill up use the kilometres travelled and litres
used to fill the car to work out your mileage :)

[RED R8]

Lee, the only true and accurate way to measure your useage is
from the pump. Fill the tank, Reset your odometer and then
next time you fill up use the kilometres travelled and litres
used to fill the car to work out your mileage :)

Whenever I do it that way I always look under the car and try and find the hole in my tank but just put it down to someone must be siphoning fuel from my car.:)

[leevysv8]

Yep no worries MACCA779. Thanks for your feed back.

Like I said before, does it really matter if one person uses less fuel than the other.

The other week I drove to my parents house which is over 200km away, I filled up when I left and when I got there my fuel guage showed that I had used on eighth of a tank. Are you guys going to tell me that my fuel guage is incorrect as well? If so, why aren't I running out of fuel all of the time?

An eighth of a tank is about 9 litres and maybe another 6 for the amount you can fill over the full mark. That is 15 litres.

The trip was about 215 km, so I reckon the consumption isn't too far off what it is on the dash.

Even if I used 20 litres, that is still under 10l/100km. Again I can't really see what all the fuss is about.

I have heard heaps of horror stories about various tuners too, but not all of them are true. The cars that I mentioned from the same shop are still all running and still getting that economy and none of them have "built" engines. Anyway I don't really want to get into a slinging match about tuners. I am not interested! The main thing is that you are happy with the work that the workshop has done and if you are not then you go and speak to them about it and sort it out with them.


Lee, the only true and accurate way to measure your useage is
from the pump. Fill the tank, Reset your odometer and then
next time you fill up use the kilometres travelled and litres
used to fill the car to work out your mileage :)

Yeah thanks for that Rod. I reckon that this issue is just really out of hand. I really can't see what the big deal is.

I believe that what you are saying is correct though Rod, no doubt about it.

[BLACK 346]

Whenever I do it that way I always look under the car and try and find the hole in my tank but just put it down to someone must be siphoning fuel from my car.:)

:rofl: I know what you mean. Funny thing has happened to my car
the last couple of tanks. 16.9-18 is pretty well the norm for mine,
depending on how many short trips I make on top of the work run.
Well, the last 2 fill ups have suddenly net me 14l/100, I thought
I must have stuffed up my calculations the first time, but sure enough
it has dropped significantly. No change of fuel either :confused:
Maybe someone is adding fuel to mine :)


Yeah thanks for that Rod. I reckon that this issue is just really out of hand. I really can't see what the big deal is.

I believe that what you are saying is correct though Rod, no doubt about it.

No worries mate. Even if you computer is out, I doubt it would be
by that much, so your probably still getting exceptional economy :)

[leevysv8]

No worries mate. Even if you computer is out, I doubt it would be
by that much, so your probably still getting exceptional economy :)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's right Rod. As your tyres wear the calibration will go out, but if I was using heaps of fuel I reckon my wallet might know about it. My economy was better today (filled up yesterday) than usual, but then again I haven't had the air con on or driven in really heavy traffic. The car does use more fuel if you sit at the lights not moving, but as you can see from my previous posts, I avoid these roads.

In saying this, if I drive from my place to the city via these roads (Heaslip, South Rd, Salisbury Hwy etc) and then go home again my dash still shows 10.5l/100km, even though I have been into the city where the traffic flow is worse.

Like you said in your post, I am still getting good economy.

[OVRTAQ]

im not here to cause crap either,, just stating what we usually get on our runs, n being that majority of them are country based, guess we;'re just lucky then,,, not pulling anyones anything...

is definitely interesting to read what others are getting..

and we;ll do the full tank run as well...do long runs in her,, wont b hard to get the reading...

[cosmo vyss]

Lets get some more figures up. Mid size cam 220

3.1 at idle, 9-10 on highway cruising at 110klm and 18-22 around town pending on how hard my right foot is pressed.

[VYClubby]

My 220/220 is 2.6 to 2.7 no air con, and 2.9 to 3.0 with it on. I get 20l/100 at an average speed of 30k's.

[BLACK 346]

Ok, 226/234 @ 110 average speed 40kmh 14l/100 for last 2 tanks.

[SS346]

using the lp/h read out on the dash is not accurate when you have a cam or tune, reason being that the instantaneous fuel usage read out can be altered in all ls1 512k and 1024 ecu's.

the fuel usage is calculated from the ve table (when mafless), if the ve table is not perfect or the injector flow rate, the fuel usage display will be wrong.

the old "manual" calculation method is most reliable.

[Plums]

Getting over 600 K's out of a tank BEFORE the Low Fuel alert comes on would be just great..... having that happen during "around town" driving must be an amazing feeling!!!!

As I said before, get your tuner to talk to the Holden executives, I bet they will be more than happy to talk to him.

[macca_779]

using the lp/h read out on the dash is not accurate when you have a cam or tune, reason being that the instantaneous fuel usage read out can be altered in all ls1 512k and 1024 ecu's.

the fuel usage is calculated from the ve table (when mafless), if the ve table is not perfect or the injector flow rate, the fuel usage display will be wrong.

the old "manual" calculation method is most reliable.

Are you 100% sure VE or the MAF table has an influence on the trip computer. Genuine question as from what I can gather the trip computer determines fuel use off IFR, IPW and fixed factors. ie the cal number. For example if you had an inaccurate VE and it was high for instance you would effectively be telling the PCM its getting more air than it is. Because of this the PCM will command more fuel to meet the commanded AFR but ofcourse it will be richer than commanded. In essence the PCM driven off a larger VE value calculates this into driving a longer IPW. The trip computer sees the larger IPW and calculates the fuel quantity injected.

VE is not fuel. Its only an air model calculation and from that model the PCM knows IFR already as its in the tune and can calculate an appropriate IPW.

Having a scewed VE/MAF will give incorrect AFR's due to an inaccurate air calc.. But I can't see how it will scew the calculation on how much fuel is injected. An inaccurate IFR will certainly screw up the trip computer though.

If I'm not wrong (this shit is easy to mix up and get backwards) a lower than actual IFR value will trick the trip computer into thinking its using less fuel than it is.

That brings up another issue altogether. There are far to many shit tuners out there that are lazy and will tweak the 2d IFR table to dial in fuelling rather than build an accurate VE model because its easier. This could be a reason as to why some people are seeing some crazy numbers on their trip computers. For those that are interested. It is common knowledge among tuners that are worth a damm that you don't screw with the IFR table unless you are changing injectors.

[SS346]

Are you 100% sure VE or the MAF table has an influence on the trip computer. Genuine question as from what I can gather the trip computer determines fuel use off IFR, IPW and fixed factors. ie the cal number. For example if you had an inaccurate VE and it was high for instance you would effectively be telling the PCM its getting more air than it is. Because of this the PCM will command more fuel to meet the commanded AFR but ofcourse it will be richer than commanded. In essence the PCM driven off a larger VE value calculates this into driving a longer IPW. The trip computer sees the larger IPW and calculates the fuel quantity injected.

VE is not fuel. Its only an air model calculation and from that model the PCM knows IFR already as its in the tune and can calculate an appropriate IPW.

Having a scewed VE/MAF will give incorrect AFR's due to an inaccurate air calc.. But I can't see how it will scew the calculation on how much fuel is injected. An inaccurate IFR will certainly screw up the trip computer though.

i am %100 sure the ve has a direct influence on the fuel output.

hypothetical, if you have a totally stock ls1, decrease the ifr (richer) you would naturally have to decrease the ve, this tells the pcm that there is less air entering the cylinder, less air, less fuel lower fuel reading.

b3501 <(thats the direct manipulation.)
b3502

[macca_779]

i am %100 sure the ve has a direct influence on the fuel output.

hypothetical, if you have a totally stock ls1, decrease the ifr (richer) you would naturally have to decrease the ve, this tells the pcm that there is less air entering the cylinder, less air, less fuel lower fuel reading.

b3501 <(thats the direct manipulation.)
b3502

I agree completely but what you first proposed was only a fudged VE. Not the IFR. I'm just trying to ascertain that if you don't touch the IFR will the trip computer be out. I don't think it will.

[RED R8]

Getting over 600 K's out of a tank BEFORE the Low Fuel alert comes on would be just great..... having that happen during "around town" driving must be an amazing feeling!!!!

As I said before, get your tuner to talk to the Holden executives, I bet they will be more than happy to talk to him.

Its not hard...around town I easily (well just) get 600ks out of two tanks.

[ringram]

0.7g/h or 3.2l/h with 440 cube 230/238
Im not sure how it calculates, but thats with 72lb/hr siemens deka injectors. Maybe it assumes stock injectors?
Sounds too good to be true anyway :)

[VZLAD]

I'll see what mine gets when going in reverse :)

[1340LOCO]

I'll see what mine gets when going in reverse :)

:rofl::goodjob:
I heard from fitzy's tuner that if you drive in reverse your car will produce fuel and you will be able to sell it!!!

He can also find ways to not have to pay tax on these sales.

[FITZY777]

:rofl::goodjob:
I heard from fitzy's tuner that if you drive in reverse your car will produce fuel and you will be able to sell it!!!

He can also find ways to not have to pay tax on these sales.


1. Who are you... That was IP !! LOL
2. I am workin on a secret plan with leesv8 and the Rudd govt to backdate negative fuel consumption excise, but only for those "that can handle the truth".
3. A great Belfast sayin..."Away on and fuk yourself wee maannn.

[davestef2005]

Lee, the only true and accurate way to measure your useage is
from the pump. Fill the tank, Reset your odometer and then
next time you fill up use the kilometres travelled and litres
used to fill the car to work out your mileage :)

agree with this 4sure!!:xmas:

[leevysv8]

1. Who are you... That was IP !! LOL
2. I am workin on a secret plan with leesv8 and the Rudd govt to backdate negative fuel consumption excise, but only for those "that can handle the truth".
3. A great Belfast sayin..."Away on and fuk yourself wee maannn.

At least some of us can have a laugh Fitzy, I reckon u are hillarious!