Blown SV6??

[tigermoth_744]

Hey guys,

My current ride is M6 VE SV6, yes i know only v6, this is because im only 19 and well ye insurance is just abit ridiculous. What also pisses me off is with these current run out prices holden are doing I could of got SS for the same price:flipoff: Anyway enough ranting and back to my question, can a Harrop supercharger or another holden performance part maker fit these to an sv6? Although i don't have 5-6k to burn not to mention enough for all the other wonderful things id love to do to my car, but am curious for later on down the track when 195kw isnt enough...

thanks,
TM

[monaro327]

capa do a kit for the ve sv6 only kit i know of that fits the VE's.

[planetdavo]

I sense some issues arising with a 19 year old and an aftermarket supercharger...

[tigermoth_744]

anyone with a supercharger is instantly turned back into a 19yo am im right? and thanks i will check out capa

[monaro327]

more likely being that it wouldn't be legal and your likely to kill yourself or others??

[tigermoth_744]

geez you all sound like a bunch of bitchin old men..probably coz u are. i thought this was a performance website guess i was wrong......

[kiwiaj]

I'm sure a VE V6 with an aftermarket supercharger will be easier to insure for a 19 year old ....

[planetdavo]

geez you all sound like a bunch of bitchin old men..probably coz u are. i thought this was a performance website guess i was wrong......
My apologies. I forgot for a moment that 19 year olds know everything...:rolleyes:
Go back and read your original post. You talk about your painful insurance, then you want to fit a supercharger! Yeah, that will REALLY help lower your insurance costs..:rofl:
What's "the future" for a 19 year old anyway? 1 month, 2 months time? Would you even legally be able to own a supercharged car under 21? If you mean after 21, well f#ck me, there could be twice as many options around by then, so what's the point of asking now? :flipoff:

[tigermoth_744]

and as i said in my original post, i said later on down the track by which stage hopefully insurance will allow it. ......did i forget im only a named driver as it's registered under my folks :rofl:

i can dream.....:xmas:

[FlatfootV8]

geez you all sound like a bunch of bitchin old men..probably coz u are. i thought this was a performance website guess i was wrong......

Performance is useless when your dead....

[CSP]

The chang over price plus the extra cost of insurance on a V8 would be cheaper than blowing and insuring a V6.

[Big_Valven]

more likely being that it wouldn't be legal and your likely to kill yourself or others??

Tigermoth, unfortunately this is the response you're more than likely to get. Everyone on here complains about hoon laws, yet are so perpetuated by all the bullshit that everytime someone comes on here under 25, they're going to kill themselves if they do so much as add 1KW to their engine.

Monaro327, ANYONE could die driving Tigermoth's car. Get over it and give this guy a chance.

[tigermoth_744]

Thanks Big Valven glad someone is one my side,

I do think it is wrong to stereotype all people in my age bracket as 'hoons' considering you do not know nothing about me but am genuinely interested in cars and extracting as much juice as possible , and find it very hypocritical that majority of people here drive v8's that a clocking 300rkw+ yet me and my v6 (without being dyno'd) would probably only clock half of that, im sure your more liekly to wrap yourself round a tree....lets face it someone my age is struggling to afford my monthly car payments, you think im gona go round burning people off the lights and drive like a hoon of course not....

btw im not one of those people that hang out at the carpark on a saturday night making doof doof noises.....

[SCiFiRE]

I got no problem with having a hot car mate,
curious though, If your gonna go the supercharger route, cars going to be illegal for you to drive and insurance is gonna be through the roof. My advice: get a V8 instead. Insurance or legality wise your going to be in the same boat either way. Probably better an in an unmodded actually.

[Ewok]

Hey dude, not sure if I am supposed to post links in here but these 2 should shed some light on the subject for you. The first being the actual Raptor SC kit for the VZ series, and the 2nd is the discussion on the VE Raptor kit.

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/raptor-superchargers/59857-vz-alloytec-kit-development.html

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/raptor-superchargers/86543-ve-alloytec-kit-any-chance.html

Regards,

-Chris

PS: Also, big ups to you Tiger for standing your ground, there are a lot of hypocritical nazi's on this forum who as you say, own powerful cars and would be more likely to wrap themselves around a tree than you may. I have ALWAYS owned 6's and still to this day, have not received a single fine or lost a single demerit point (well, acrued a single demerit point, because you gain them, you don't lose them). Do what you feel is right for you and be happy with your decisions, hope these threads shed some more light on the subject.

[tigermoth_744]

thanks guys for reply, i wasnt sure on the legalities of a supercharger...are they actually illegal?? I definately think an upgrade to a v8 in couple years time is probably a better option..

[rosey]

if you're after a supercharged car you could sell off your VE and get a VY series 2 S factory supercharged V6, obviously it'd be a downgrade going from a new platform to an 11 year old VT style car. But if you want a blown car that bad then i guess it's an option. i had a VX supercharged 6 when i was 18 and insurance wasn't too bad, plus they're already got all the good stuff done to the motor like ceramic pistons, lower comp, bigger injectors etc. spend 2-3k on it by doing a boost upgrade, roller rockers and a full exhaust and you'll be pulling around 220kw at the fly and heaps of torque. i know it doesn't sound like much but they pull pretty well, i shaded a few xr8's and ls1's when i had it (at the drag strip too). just somethin for you to think about...

[Ewok]

The blown models of the ecobox from factory weren't too bad but the new 190-195kw alloytechs would keep up with em these days, certainly not from a launch perspective, but they'd catch up. I am sure that someone on here has already proven or tested that theory? (notice the 2 alternatives because I don't want to be definitive hehe). But with a few grand of mods as suggested and they'd be pretty crankin', get the Yella Terra upgrade for the SC and you'd be laughing :D

Going to be posting me mates car soon as he has a custom jobbie, but is computer illiterate. He has a VP with a supercharged V6 he shipped in from the US, was formerly in a NASCAR. You would swear blind that the thing is a V8 when listening to it idle/rev. Putting out about 200rwkw at the moment and he will be doing the Yella Terra upgrade to it shortly aswel, should be looking at around 230-240rwkw afterwards. We'll see :) People have probably seen it around Perth too, can't miss it, bright yellow heh.

[flappist]

Based on the assumption that you are not restricted by any of the "P" laws and can therefore legally drive forced induction or V8 vehicles my advise about upgrading your V6 is "Are you Nuts?".

There are umpty million VE SS/SSV/Clubbies for about $2.50 + GST at the moment any of which will eat a supercharged alloytec BEFORE you mod them. Your V6 is worth far more standard and trading it on a V8 will give you a motor vehicle that has a warranty, complies with ADRs and is a lot easier to insure.

As far the "hoon/anti P plate" legislation, remember your car has more power then every clubsport made before LS1 and more power than most of the A9X Toranas, H series Monaros or XU1s. In fast cars things happen quickly so you have to react quickly and correctly if things go pear shaped. This only comes from experience and while some 19 year olds have driven hundreds of thousands of kilometres in all road and traffic conditions and have excellent driving skills the majority have not and as far insurance and laws are concerned it is a numbers game.

When I owned my F6 my insurance was $800/year although if I moved to Sydney it would jump to $4000 a year. Numbers game.

Leave it stock, save the cash and then buy a shiny V8 when you can afford it. You will be a better driver, older and in a cheaper insurance bracket.

[Ewok]

Flappist has some very valid points about V8 pricing and what not about the old power figures of the earlier generations of V8's. But I think also there is something else going on here, being that not everyone want's a V8 and there is a growing trend towards individuality in what you want to have done to your car. Fair enough modifying a V6 is costly, but the end result might be what the person is looking for, course it's easier to just go for a V8 because they are a dime-a-dozen, but some people prefer not to have stupid amounts of power on tap under the right foot, but want suitable power if required. Just my 2cents worth but trying to keep an open mind on the developing situation here.

The other thing, yeah, insurance is bloody ridiculous isn't it? I was paying $80 p/m with westernQBE for my ole VS S pack S2 ute and I have home and contents with SGIO, I asked SGIO what it would cost me to insure p/m if I brought it over to them (coz of the %10 discount on the 2 if packaged) and they wanted to sting me $180p/m . When I got my SV6 I did the same thing , and they still wanted $170p/m for the SV6, whereas WesternQBE DROPPED my insurance down to $56 p/m, (full comprehensive of course). But of course, anything heavily modified is going to cost a lot more to insure becuase you have to list the parts for them to be insured, whereas if you have a N/A V8 with the same power it will cost less because they don't have to insure all the additions.

-Chris

[tigermoth_744]

Evok and Flappist, you both bring up very good points,

I definitely would love to get a v8 as they are so god dam cheap and of the power of course (if only a waited 2 more months....), but at the moment i think it is a distant dream with regard to money and insurance...But even then i am not so sure...I just hope holden go in the same direction as what ford has done with it's xr6 and xr8 range, will holden end up bringing out a supercharged v6 when they release the anticipated VF commodore??? In the meantime i think ill keep my SV6 for few more years to come doing mods to it along the way...o and btw can u fit an OTRCAI and cam an sv6 ?:1peek: I guess i will be happy once I could beat a stock v8 of the line hehehehe!

[ADAM 26]

Hey Mate Have You Thought Of Twin Turbo?

Capa Make A Charger Kit That Seems To Work Ok.

Dont Worry About All The Crap People Give You For Being Young And Wanting To Supercahrge Your Car. People Are Just Jelous.

[Ewok]

hehe, beating a stock current model V8 off the line would be a bit difficult without a blower :)

You can certainly cam a SV6, however it's costly, you need 2 for the inlet and 2 for the outlet. Looking at about $3200 from what I have heard for the work, and it's not a huge power producer in itself without some more work done. 3.46 diff gears would be a good way to start for "off the line go", you can get rebuilt diff with the gears in or find a 2nd hand diff and install yourself, would need to take it to Holden afterwards for them to recalibrate your spedo though.

haha Twin Turbo... was thinking something like that, mate of mine got hold of a free spare TT 1jz Soarer a month or so ago, and doesn't need the blowers, was thinking about getting the work done but all the piping and everything is custom = $$$ and I'd have to do a little engine work (little? hahah understatement, considering it's currently stock) buuuuuuuut the bugger wants to sting me for the turbo's if I want em heh, nothing's for free even from your mates anymore is it ? :D

[rosey]

Based on the assumption that you are not restricted by any of the "P" laws and can therefore legally drive forced induction or V8 vehicles my advise about upgrading your V6 is "Are you Nuts?".

There are umpty million VE SS/SSV/Clubbies for about $2.50 + GST at the moment any of which will eat a supercharged alloytec BEFORE you mod them. Your V6 is worth far more standard and trading it on a V8 will give you a motor vehicle that has a warranty, complies with ADRs and is a lot easier to insure.

As far the "hoon/anti P plate" legislation, remember your car has more power then every clubsport made before LS1 and more power than most of the A9X Toranas, H series Monaros or XU1s. In fast cars things happen quickly so you have to react quickly and correctly if things go pear shaped. This only comes from experience and while some 19 year olds have driven hundreds of thousands of kilometres in all road and traffic conditions and have excellent driving skills the majority have not and as far insurance and laws are concerned it is a numbers game.

When I owned my F6 my insurance was $800/year although if I moved to Sydney it would jump to $4000 a year. Numbers game.

Leave it stock, save the cash and then buy a shiny V8 when you can afford it. You will be a better driver, older and in a cheaper insurance bracket.


i also agree with this point, save your dosh and spend it on a V8, yes it is a very worn path, but thats because its the most cost effective and satisfying. i spent around 3k on my supercharged v6, yes it was a fast car, it made around 165rwkw. i spent around 4k on my monaro and its way faster, makes 272rwkw and is heaps more fun. No matter what you say or do v6's will never sound as good as v8's.

[Ewok]

I agree with you rosey, however on the point of V6's not sounding as good as a V8, mates SC VP commodore has a NASCAR supercharged 6 in it, and you would swear its an 8. I'll see about doing a sound record on it sometime :) For now though I will be posting his car up at some stage because he's computer illiterate.

[tigermoth_744]

Ye i think you guys are right, keep my v6 for couple more years, then hopefully buy a 2nd had R8 or something once everyone has sold theirs to buy a VF then supercharge that :rofl:

[monaro327]

Big Valven you are an idiot.

re read my post, all i was doing was correcting how tigermoth took davo's comment.

He said i sense an issue with you being 19 tiger said cause superchargers make you feel young and i just said no i think he means legalities etc... hence why i used "???"

I also fall into the "hoon" age bracket mate so don't worry. i wasn't having a go at you tiger.

[Ewok]

That "hoon" age bracket in my opinion is complete bullsh*t considering it's everyone with a right foot and a car. No one can really claim they have never exceeded the speed limit because that would be complete rubbish. We're ALL hoons at heart. It's just easier for the politicians to pigeanhole us because for them its PC and gives the media something to drone on about.

[OUTAtheBloo]

So getting back to the point of the thread, what superchargers are out there for v6's ?

[monaro327]

capa and thats it for the VE raptor told me they have no intention of reverse engineering there blower. not for some time anyway.

[planetdavo]

That "hoon" age bracket in my opinion is complete bullsh*t considering it's everyone with a right foot and a car. No one can really claim they have never exceeded the speed limit because that would be complete rubbish. We're ALL hoons at heart. It's just easier for the politicians to pigeanhole us because for them its PC and gives the media something to drone on about.
It's easier for the insurance companies to pigeonhole the youngies as well, because they have the stats to prove it...lots of balls but little experience=regular claims :teach:

[Ewok]

It's easier for the insurance companies to pigeonhole the youngies as well, because they have the stats to prove it...lots of balls but little experience=regular claims :teach:

So true, I feel so sorry for you youngens :)

[arronm]

geez you all sound like a bunch of bitchin old men..probably coz u are. i thought this was a performance website guess i was wrong......

Dont let the comments bother you ,there is just something about commodore drivers and there V8s, I just recent bought a sv6 sporstwagon and I intend to supercharge it. Iam not looking for heaps of power but the extra torque. Its hard to get out of my 325rwkw typhoon and into my commodore it seems well under powered. I could have bought a V8 but it seems like SS commodores are very common like WRX , and I thought I would go a different root. So I say have fun with your six.

[Karratha_4x4]

Im 19 and just bought a new SS and really the insurance isn't that bad (In WA anyway)

Currently got a mitsubishi magna and paying $1200 a year for that the SS is around $1900 a year.

There's some CRAZY quotes out there, i got quoted 9.2k per year for insurance!!!!!

Actually quite suprised about how cheap insurance really was.

Not an answer to your question but anyways :P

[tigermoth_744]

wow 1,900 pretty descent i got quoted 3,900...! Btw wana swap keys?

Go V6 power!

[Karratha_4x4]

Glad im not in NSW though, don't think i can be insured letalone drive one alot of places over east won't insure me because of that, they don't get WA has different laws......only have to suffer 2 years on P plates in WA and i've been off em for a while and that also helps with the cost from speaking to these companys on the phone.


Hahaha NO! :P not gunna happen..........SV6 is a pretty good car though, but with only 4k difference made sense to go the V8!

[Ewok]

Dont let the comments bother you ,there is just something about commodore drivers and there V8s, I just recent bought a sv6 sporstwagon and I intend to supercharge it. Iam not looking for heaps of power but the extra torque. Its hard to get out of my 325rwkw typhoon and into my commodore it seems well under powered. I could have bought a V8 but it seems like SS commodores are very common like WRX , and I thought I would go a different root. So I say have fun with your six.

Sooooo bloody true. Hence why I bought an SV6 also with the intention of supercharging it, I just have to wait till after me wedding next year so the missus won't harp on about it :D 285rwhp from tune, zorst, roller rockers sounds like a nice upgrade :)

[CSP]

Dont let the comments bother you ,there is just something about commodore drivers and there V8s, I just recent bought a sv6 sporstwagon and I intend to supercharge it. Iam not looking for heaps of power but the extra torque. Its hard to get out of my 325rwkw typhoon and into my commodore it seems well under powered. I could have bought a V8 but it seems like SS commodores are very common like WRX , and I thought I would go a different root. So I say have fun with your six.

There are other V8 options OTHER than the SS.

In my opinion, the new Calais V Sportwagon in Karma looks like sex on wheels!

[arronm]

There are other V8 options OTHER than the SS.

In my opinion, the new Calais V Sportwagon in Karma looks like sex on wheels!

This is true but I do like the body kit on the SV6.

[Ewok]

Agreed, I know its a little too SS'ish (minus the tail lights of course) but I reckon it just needs a good Screw to perk it up some :) then it has the power to fully justify the looks. At the moment unfortunately, although I am more than happy with it at the moment for waht I want, I feel like a ford driver in an XR6, knowing that it is ONLY an XT with a bodykit... the only thing that differs is the fact that I also know I have 193rwhp under my right foot as opposed to 30something less than the XR6 **cough** XT

[Marco]

I'm sorry, but....why would anyone want to muck around building their own turbo or S/C V6 when there's a perfectly good V8 available in the Commodore that has plenty of modding potential? Is it just to be different?

[michaels1v8]

Why mess with the 5.7 when u could get a perfectly good 6lt?

Why mess with a 6lt when u could go a LS3?

Horses for courses and we play with what we have and what we can afford to

[Marco]

Yeah, but it's not like there's a huge difference in price between say an SV6 and an SS, not like there is between an SS and a Clubby.

Nothing against the guys who do blown sixes, but it just seems like a lot of trouble to get a result that you could have had much more easily with a V8.

[tigermoth_744]

dont know about most people but i think i will have enough trouble trying to convince my dad about me purchasing a 6ltr V8 just so i can go faster :bawl:

[arronm]

yes yes yes

Nothing against the guys who do blown sixes, but it just seems like a lot of trouble to get a result that you could have had much more easily with a V8.[/QUOTE] this way I also use less fuel.


I'm sorry, but....why would anyone want to muck around building their own turbo or S/C V6 when there's a perfectly good V8 available in the Commodore that has plenty of modding potential? Is it just to be different? yes

[Ewok]

Clearly didn't read the rest of the comments. Yes it's a personal thing. As you said there is an abundance of V8's and SS's out there, but every bloke and his dog have em'. It IS about individuality, not necessarily money, bloody hell, I'm an IT network engineer, I don't worry about money. I want a supercharge my SV6 because it's different and I like the results I have seen thus far. Any monkey can own a V8, myself and others just go about that sort of power a different way. Oh, have a look in the classifieds and so on, there are plenty of R33/R34 skylines sub $20k that can blow the doors off a V8 quite easily, don't have to be rich mate.

[GODSMACK]

Clearly didn't read the rest of the comments. Yes it's a personal thing. As you said there is an abundance of V8's and SS's out there, but every bloke and his dog have em'. It IS about individuality, not necessarily money, bloody hell, I'm an IT network engineer, I don't worry about money. I want a supercharge my SV6 because it's different and I like the results I have seen thus far. Any monkey can own a V8, myself and others just go about that sort of power a different way. Oh, have a look in the classifieds and so on, there are plenty of R33/R34 skylines sub $20k that can blow the doors off a V8 quite easily, don't have to be rich mate.
I see more SV6's than i do V8's on a daily basis. Any monkey can own a S/C V6 too. If your here to bag out V8's, then go to street Commodores, plenty of people on there with S/C Ecotecs that you could relate to.

Individuality you say....??? Lucky for you only 500 VZ SV6's were ever made hey... :)

[SHANESVZSS]

hey mate , since your into 6's , theres also great deals to be had on xr6 turbos?? bf's are going for low 20k's now , dont realy have to mod them much if at all, just a suggestion , also imoa the 4.0 ltr is a better mill. not sure on insurance tho!

OR BETTER STILL TURBO YOUR SIX!!!!

[Ewok]

Nah Godsmack, don't get me wrong mate, its not that I don't like V8's, I do, but I personally have a different idea on how I currently want to go about achieving power, I do want a V8 in the future, this is likely a phase :)

As for XR6 Turbo's, agreed, of all the Ford series, the XR6 turbo's are the only car I actually respect. As I have said before, really don't like the fact that an XR6 is just an XT with a bodykit, Ford could have at LEAST given it some more power. But the thought HAS crossed my mind...

Saw one at a dyno day (the same day I had mine dyno'd stock for a baseline) and he pulled about 250rwhp , not too shabby, he was there for a baseline aswel as he had just picked up the car a week before. I've driven the XR6's but not the XR6 turbo's.

[monaro327]

has anyone seen the torque output from this blown alloytecs?? its more then miost blown v8's!

[Ewok]

Theres a guy in the eastern states has an SV6, goes on forums by name of ImpulseSV6 and has a Raptor Supercharged SV6. it puts out a phenominal amount of torque.. Have a lookie

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/raptor-superchargers/79986-vz-sv6-raptor-supercharged.html

Thats right, 215rwkw, 1060rwNm, in 2nd gear.

From what I remember he had to have the torque limited to about 800nm and is still running with pretty much the original driveline

[GODSMACK]

has anyone seen the torque output from this blown alloytecs?? its more then miost blown v8's! And how much was spent on the Blown 6 to get those power figures.. ? Put the same amount of money in the 8 and then tell me the V6 still out powers the V8..

I dont have anything against V6's, i just think its a waste when there are better options out there...

[Ewok]

And how much was spent on the Blown 6 to get those power figures.. ? Put the same amount of money in the 8 and then tell me the V6 still out powers the V8..

I dont have anything against V6's, i just think its a waste when there are better options out there...


The supercharger fit up job was around $5k 3 day drive in drive out job. Blower, injectors, tune etc all included.

[GODSMACK]

The supercharger fit up job was around $5k 3 day drive in drive out job. Blower, injectors, tune etc all included.
Wow, $5k for over 1000nm of torque is great bang for your buck, not to mention impressive from only 215rwkw.

Why arnt more SV6 owners going down this path, its definelty cheap power... Any 1/4 mile times for this car?

[Ewok]

Havn't seen any current 1/4 mile times, will hit him up and ask him if he has anything lately. He did a little work to the car before he had the supercharger installed though, think some of those details are listed.

3.46 diff gears, roller rockers, extractors exhaust high flow cats, CAI. Think that was about it really. N/A he was running about 14.3sec 1/4 miles. Would love to see what he is running now :D See if I can find out ...

[GODSMACK]

Havn't seen any current 1/4 mile times, will hit him up and ask him if he has anything lately. He did a little work to the car before he had the supercharger installed though, think some of those details are listed.

3.46 diff gears, roller rockers, extractors exhaust high flow cats, CAI. Think that was about it really. N/A he was running about 14.3sec 1/4 miles. Would love to see what he is running now :D See if I can find out ... Sweet, would be good to know..

Having said that, its fair to say he isnt getting all that power from $5k as previously stated, based on ground work that he had already done.... Needless to say, would still sh*t all over most cars on this forum performance wise..

[Ewok]

Agreed, I reckon he needs to go shift kit, strengthened driveline and sticky tyres to get most of it to the floor on a 1/4 heh. His 60ft time will be interesting to find out...

Just had a chat with Matt from MSA One Stop in the eastern states, the guys who developed the Raptor Supercharget kit. Details as follows:

" The Pro Street Intercooled kit heads out @ $7150.00 Complete kit including injectors, pipework and all accessories to make it happen. The last kit we sent to W.A. was fitted by the customer over a weekend then towed to Pro Auto for tuning. There is a tune supplied for the shop but the last one did need tweaking by the tuner. It was a 175 engine and they made 210 Rwkw. The 190 SV6 engines being tuned here are in the 235 Rwkw zone."

$7150, little more than I originally thought, but still good value considering the benefits :D

[michaels1v8]

Wouldnt the dyno run in second gear be giving him an inflated real torque figure?

[Ewok]

I'd probably say so, not sure what the torque figure would be in 3rd. Still waiting for him to get back to me heh

[SirNemesis]

Wouldnt the dyno run in second gear be giving him an inflated real torque figure?

Yes. Should be tested in a 1:1 gear.

[gfresh24/7]

http://www.capa.com.au/kits_holden_ve_v6.htm

Think that might be what you are looking for. I don't know why it's so hard for people to just answer a question sometimes. Noone really gives a toss if it's cheaper or you'll get more power from a V8, the kid just wanted to know if anyone did a kit.

[Swordie]

The SV6 has plenty of power. Modern cars are too easy to drive fast in a straight line. Adjustable suspension would be a nice modification.

[monaro327]

Impulse has run a 13.9 as his best time, his issue is that he has an auto and the sv6 autos don't have any tuning avalilable yet.

the fastest SV6 is phil's ute which runs 13.3 which is a cammed N/A manual.

[Ewok]

Impulse has run a 13.9 as his best time, his issue is that he has an auto and the sv6 autos don't have any tuning avalilable yet.

the fastest SV6 is phil's ute which runs 13.3 which is a cammed N/A manual.

Still havn't heard back from him yet, Monaro, was that with or without the blower for Impulse?

[flappist]

Theres a guy in the eastern states has an SV6, goes on forums by name of ImpulseSV6 and has a Raptor Supercharged SV6. it puts out a phenominal amount of torque.. Have a lookie

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/raptor-superchargers/79986-vz-sv6-raptor-supercharged.html

Thats right, 215rwkw, 1060rwNm, in 2nd gear.

From what I remember he had to have the torque limited to about 800nm and is still running with pretty much the original driveline

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

In any reciprocating engine Power = Torque * RPM. This is true regardless of number of cylinders, fuel used, manifold pressure, bore, stroke or how many badges and decals have stuck all over it.

The indicated torque at the rear wheels is subject to the mecanical advantage of the reduction due to the gearbox and diff. e.g. if the diff is 3.45:1 and second gear is 2.58:1 (VE SV6) then the mechanical advantage is about 9:1 which makes the RW torque figure complete masturbation.

Going on the axiom that RW power is 3/4 of FW power, if this vehicle was in fact demonstrating a maximum power of 215rwkw then it would be demonstrating approximately 285 fwkw.

If then maximum power was at 6000 rpm then by using the formula P(kw) = T (Nm) * RPM / 9549 then the torque would be 454 Nm, it it were 5000 rpm then it would be 544Nm OR about what a fairly bog standard LS1 demonstrates.

Now in that the figures quoted were for an "enhanced" mechanical advantage and the dynos are normally calibrated to a different scale I suspect the figures may not be particularly accurate.

On the other hand, never let truth get in the way of a good story.....

[Ewok]

Cool, so you spent a lot of time working out the maths and mechanics of the setup, good for you, it'd still nail the SHIT out of your 350Z mate. How about appreciate what the guy has spent a lot of time and energy in accomplishing? Now, some of us have better things to do.......

[flappist]

Cool, so you spent a lot of time working out the maths and mechanics of the setup, good for you, it'd still nail the SHIT out of your 350Z mate. How about appreciate what the guy has spent a lot of time and energy in accomplishing? Now, some of us have better things to do.......

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Really?

So it would nail the SHIT out of a car that tied with the LS3 GTS around wakefield in BFYB 2008?

Or are you talking about 400m?

According to the above it does 13.9 and is an auto yet Wheels did 13.8 in an auto 350Z a few months ago. Maybe you should research before posting.

You seem a bit upset that I have implied that the numbers he has stated appear to be misleading.

I wonder why?

[Ewok]

Where did I ever imply that the numbers above in the post were true and absolutely accurate? I had already conceded to another poster that it was recorded in 2nd gear and this is not a true representation of what the car is actually capable of oof course. Nowhere have I actually vouched for the car, but I have stated that this car is pretty impressive for what the guy has done to it and how far he has taken it so far. For someone like yourself to come along and attempt to completely dismiss and demean this guys achievement beggars belief. I really think that having done all the calculations and then posted just to bring a guys figures down is just plain poor. Really, some of us have better things to do. My mates VP with a Supercharged V6 NASCAR motor in it on the other hand..........

[flappist]

Where did I ever imply that the numbers above in the post were true and absolutely accurate? I had already conceded to another poster that it was recorded in 2nd gear and this is not a true representation of what the car is actually capable of oof course. Nowhere have I actually vouched for the car, but I have stated that this car is pretty impressive for what the guy has done to it and how far he has taken it so far. For someone like yourself to come along and attempt to completely dismiss and demean this guys achievement beggars belief. I really think that having done all the calculations and then posted just to bring a guys figures down is just plain poor. Really, some of us have better things to do. My mates VP with a Supercharged V6 NASCAR motor in it on the other hand..........

Settle petal, you are the one who attacked me.

Rather than just make a wild unsunstantiated opinion on whether the claims were accurate or not I actually backed it up the the physics involved. It took about 2 minutes, it is basic stuff that was taught at schools 35 years ago.

Forced induction on smaller engines can produce fairly spectacular results, just look at some of the T6 falcons, VL Turbos, Skylines et al but displaying figures like over 1000Nm torque at the wheels in a low gear is like saying you have a 2000 watt stereo in your car or getting 7l/100km in a V8.

It depends on how and when you measure it.......

[Ewok]

Completely agree with the mileage. I have clocked 8.3L/100 on my way from Palmyra -> Dwellingup, but that was sustained speeds of 100/110 km/ph and I am sure a lot of people base their consumption with similar circumstances. Whereas for normal driving (where your average speed is more realistic, being say 40-50km/ph, and yes thats realistic, check your trip computers next time) could be doing about 11.4L/100. Most people will find that their L/100 is lower if their average speed is higher.

[monaro327]

yep the best time impulse has run was 13.9 down the quarter this was blown. the autos are just shit house he said it has alot of trouble shifting even if he uses the paddles it's slow and will hit the rev limiter before actually picks up the next gear. i think the gearboxes tune is really confused by the power.

VCM show no sign yet of when they will release the auto tune for the sv6 box. glade i got a manual sv6 though.

so far Phils ute is the fastest and most powerful alloytec. 13.3 down the quarter and 317rwhp hge has a 6speed manual. then magics vz ute which is a turbo 175kw alloytec which has run 13.4 down the quarter being the 175kw motor it has the old 4l65e t700 type box. apparently makes 240rwkw which is nice power from the low end motor.

the streetcommodores forum has alot more alloytec info.

[planetdavo]

Feels a bit wierd not being in the centre of a forum argument for once...:hide:

[Toast]

Performance is useless when your dead....


I sense some issues arising with a 19 year old and an aftermarket supercharger...


F*ck me you two are unreal!! 1st comment is as dumb as they come and the 2nd really makes me laugh! What about the other 18 year olds here who have just got their licence and their first car, and they're driving 6 litre HSVs! Never seen anyone post something like you just have, only a thumbs up and a "yeh sick, good on ya mate!"... A car is only as fast as you want it to be. How do you know his driving style anyway, are you his f*ckin brother or somethin now?! Why would you automaticly think that because he's 19, that he's gonna be like other 19 year olds and be a complete idiot? Statistics? He might even be one of the more sensible ones out there... Ever think about that?

A blower on a V6 is gonna be a lot worse than a V8 Tiger, insurance wise. I paid 2500 bucks for my SS ute, full comp with RACV believe it or not. I had lost my licence for speeding and had one claim... not the best record.

[sh|tbmxrider]

For those that go and put on aftermarket S/C or Turbo kits on SV6's (and n/a XR6's), just keep in mind, just because something is different, doesn't mean its any good.

Don't waste your time and money, just wait till you can legally drive one of the performance models...

[tigermoth_744]

Hey every1,

Thanks to every1 here who has posted, been heaps of good opinions and info.

I believe it is just a matter of taste/opinion when it comes to s/c a v6 or just opting for a v8 and everyone is different so it is up to the driver what he/she wants.

For me i just love the sound of a turbo, been watching to much fast and the furious :rofl:

btw i try and believe i am abit more mature than some of my 19yo stereotype and i know there are alot out there, just look at my username and if ur in the know how u figure it out :)

[planetdavo]

F*ck me you two are unreal!! 1st comment is as dumb as they come and the 2nd really makes me laugh! What about the other 18 year olds here who have just got their licence and their first car, and they're driving 6 litre HSVs! Never seen anyone post something like you just have, only a thumbs up and a "yeh sick, good on ya mate!"... A car is only as fast as you want it to be. How do you know his driving style anyway, are you his f*ckin brother or somethin now?! Why would you automaticly think that because he's 19, that he's gonna be like other 19 year olds and be a complete idiot? Statistics? He might even be one of the more sensible ones out there... Ever think about that?

A blower on a V6 is gonna be a lot worse than a V8 Tiger, insurance wise. I paid 2500 bucks for my SS ute, full comp with RACV believe it or not. I had lost my licence for speeding and had one claim... not the best record.
Young grasshopper has so much to learn....
If you had a brain and could read, you might have figured out my comment relates to the actual ability to LEGALLY register such a modified vehicle at his age, and since he complained about high insurance, a supercharger, if even LEGALLY allowed to be driven, could only be even more expensive!
Grow up little boy before you play with the men. :flipoff:

[Toast]

did i forget im only a named driver as it's registered under my folks :rofl:

Who said the car or insurance was going to be in his name? If the car is in his parents name than the insurance is in their name. I did the same thing cos I couldnt afford full comp when I was 18...
Why wouldnt he be able to drive a s/c V6? Its no different than an XR6 Turbo. There's 18 year olds on here driving cammed 6 litre HSVs and someone else said along the lines of "thats a good way to kill yourself or another person". Get off it would ya.

I dont know why everyone is getting on their high horse just because he's 19 and asking about fitting a blower... Is there seriously something wrong with asking too long in advance?

[monaro327]

umm that arguement ended about 4 pages ago.

[planetdavo]

Its no different than an XR6 Turbo. There's 18 year olds on here driving cammed 6 litre HSVs
Just because people on this forum are driving these cars doesn't actually mean they are legally allowed to be driving them...:teach:
The number of p-platers posting their "f#ck authority" opinions on here gives a pretty good idea about certain people's respect of the laws of this country, and certainly in Victoria at least, more than a few people would be in a fair bit of sh!t if pulled over, as it's pretty damn black and white what can't be driven these days on P's.

[tigermoth_744]

Ye the rules in QLD are if ur on your P's = no V8, Super or Turbo Charger (excluding TDI) and nothing over 200kw. Luckily i got my license 6 months before these rules so none of it applies and don't have to were P plate :bow::bow::bow:

[JS57SS]

yeah gotta say some ppl get a little antsy about young blokes driving nice or powerful cars on here, and i think it's a bit shit give em a break we all had to start sometime. is there a few aca journo's on here or what some of you guys sound just like the shit they come out with.

[planetdavo]

yeah gotta say some ppl get a little antsy about young blokes driving nice or powerful cars on here, and i think it's a bit shit give em a break we all had to start sometime. is there a few aca journo's on here or what some of you guys sound just like the shit they come out with.
If said "young" people are getting around in cars they legally can't drive, hence wont be covered by any form of insurance, please feel free to stay away from myself and my family on the roads...
You say they "had to start somewhere". That doesn't mean they have to start with a high powered car, big balls, peer pressure mates and little or no real experience. Just because you can afford a better car than the previous generation doesn't mean you can actually drive it. :teach:
Some of you gen y'ers think you know everything as soon as you come out of nappies, then get all precious when people tell you off!

[GODSMACK]

yeah gotta say some ppl get a little antsy about young blokes driving nice or powerful cars on here, and i think it's a bit shit give em a break we all had to start sometime. is there a few aca journo's on here or what some of you guys sound just like the shit they come out with.
Very similar to when TG tests showed the SS's where quicker than the HSV's.. :1peek:

[JS57SS]

If said "young" people are getting around in cars they legally can't drive, hence wont be covered by any form of insurance, please feel free to stay away from myself and my family on the roads...
You say they "had to start somewhere". That doesn't mean they have to start with a high powered car, big balls, peer pressure mates and little or no real experience. Just because you can afford a better car than the previous generation doesn't mean you can actually drive it. :teach:
Some of you gen y'ers think you know everything as soon as you come out of nappies, then get all precious when people tell you off!

definatley an a current affair journo here, almost word for word with what they say. and your a car enthusiast are you not? sure don't sound like it!

[Roonstain]

well this thread got a bit off topic!

so in answer to the OP - yes you can put on a blower on your VE SV6 - Capa seem to be the only people with a designated "kit"

would i do it? i would contemplate it, but i would rather put the $$$ spent on that in the bank towards buying/modding a V8

i think a cai, exhaust and tune (when available) is plenty for the sv6 IMHO (remember i own an alloytec too!)

at the end of the day, you can kill yourself in an excel as much as in a s/c sv6 - if anything, the VE shell is more protective (hence why the govt had to buy more powerful jaws of life to cut through the VE's pillars) - if you are an idiot in any car, you will get into strife
maturity is needed when behind the wheel of any car - i just don't like it when some people on here revert to gross generalisations of the current generation of 18-25 yr olds
yes we do seem to have our fair share of d!ckheads (perhaps a little more) - but that shouldn't mean we are all judged before given a chance!
ask yourself - how many times when you were younger (for the older users) did mates drink drive, speed, act stupidly, etc etc?

jumping to such quick conclusions about our generation just shows laziness on the part of those who hold these views. take the time to have a chat to someone in my generation.
not all of us are immature, irrational idiots!
i come on this site to learn about cars (the process of modding them, and how they work), but continually i see threads like this which end up crucifying my generation if we want to find out about such things!

why not just answer the question, or point out how to use the search function properly - not decide for the poster that he should not s/c his sv6, or label him a hoon or an idiot!

i am sorry for the rant, but i am annoyed that my generation is so grossly stereotyped

end rant

[robbaggs920]

i agree that in some ways us P Platers are stereotyped..... but id be the first to stick my hand up and admit that there are many around who fit the stereotype to a T. i think its stupid for tigermoth to be asking about superchargers, as you guys explained its cheaper to get a V8. but until you got your full license then you cant do that either. with the laws as they are in Vic (no s/c's turbos or V8s) a VE SV6 is about as high as you can go (which i think is plenty enough) remembering that even for and 6 cylinders have to meet the 125 kw per tonne law as well. for example my VZ SV6 has 190kw standard and weighs 1590kgs (off the top of my head) means it can have a maximum of 199kw. which basically after a cat back and air filter thats it. My apologies to those who know these facts and i know its off topic but its clear that (IMO) it needs to be said. like all things these days each generation seems to have a need to outdo their predeccessor, which when mixed with cars makes for a deadly coctail. the point im trying to make is that its people like tigerlily asking questions like that that gwets us all tarred with the same brush!:bawl:

[planetdavo]

well this thread got a bit off topic!

so in answer to the OP - yes you can put on a blower on your VE SV6 - Capa seem to be the only people with a designated "kit"

would i do it? i would contemplate it, but i would rather put the $$$ spent on that in the bank towards buying/modding a V8

i think a cai, exhaust and tune (when available) is plenty for the sv6 IMHO (remember i own an alloytec too!)

at the end of the day, you can kill yourself in an excel as much as in a s/c sv6 - if anything, the VE shell is more protective (hence why the govt had to buy more powerful jaws of life to cut through the VE's pillars) - if you are an idiot in any car, you will get into strife
maturity is needed when behind the wheel of any car - i just don't like it when some people on here revert to gross generalisations of the current generation of 18-25 yr olds
yes we do seem to have our fair share of d!ckheads (perhaps a little more) - but that shouldn't mean we are all judged before given a chance!
ask yourself - how many times when you were younger (for the older users) did mates drink drive, speed, act stupidly, etc etc?

jumping to such quick conclusions about our generation just shows laziness on the part of those who hold these views. take the time to have a chat to someone in my generation.
not all of us are immature, irrational idiots!
i come on this site to learn about cars (the process of modding them, and how they work), but continually i see threads like this which end up crucifying my generation if we want to find out about such things!

why not just answer the question, or point out how to use the search function properly - not decide for the poster that he should not s/c his sv6, or label him a hoon or an idiot!

i am sorry for the rant, but i am annoyed that my generation is so grossly stereotyped

end rant
Sorry your sensibilities have been prickled, but when "your generation" are often on this forum asking questions most of us can't understand bcos u yoos txt riting ful of f'n bad langwage, tell the police to go and get f#cked, ask about all sorts of mods that legally can't be done at your INEXPERIENCED age, and generally come across as loose cannons looking like you want an early grave, what do you really expect!
One thing previous generations learned before the "me" generation of now is that respect and experience must be earned, and can't be given to you just because you've stopped growing zits. :goodjob:
Now, if you've calmed down, go out and earn some respect and stop thinking you deserve it.

[Roonstain]

i know you love a keyboard joust davo - you cannot resist!

i am not saying i want respect, i am saying that it would be nice if we would be shown the courtesy of not being labelled (different to respect!)

continually resorting to stereotypes is usually the domain of those people who are not intelligent enough themselves to judge a person fairly - i did not expect to place you in this group davo, as i held you in a higher stead than that, but if you are to continue with such drivel, and blatant generalisation, i suppose my first impressions may have been false!

at the end of the day, i can see your point of view - that young people, with a 'bulletproof' mentality are coming on here with limited/no car knowledge/experience, asking about illegal and/or dangerous modifications to their vehicles
but not every user here under the age of 25 fits this description.

i am not saying that you have to instantly respect me or others my age, but it would be nice to be given a fair go. is that too much to ask?

[planetdavo]

i know you love a keyboard joust davo - you cannot resist!

i am not saying i want respect, i am saying that it would be nice if we would be shown the courtesy of not being labelled (different to respect!)

Sorry, did you just "label" me, based on a very generalised knowledge of me? :)
We all know it only takes a few bad seeds to ruin it for everyone, but perhaps you can spread the word to "your generation" to stop getting themselves in the news so much... :teach:

[vzss05]

Whilst I'm not taking a side here and can see both sides of this debate, I find it interesting to note the threads in the last week re Qld and Vic cruises re certain vehicles loss of traction and video's that aren't able to be posted etc. Honestly who hand on heart can say when they were young did nothing stupid in a vehicle that put you or others at risk. :hide:

Now that I'm older and particually now that I have a family my attitudes are different. This is not something new, our parents thought the same about our generation, and so on. What is the solution?? Who know's? Do I hope in the years to come when my boy grows up will he be not subject to peer pressure and be safe on the road - Yes I do, but do I beleive the same issues will be around, unfortunatelly yes!

I guess the main difference from my Generation X to Y, is that we didnt post everything we did on You Tube for the world to see.

My 2c

[tigermoth_744]

Can't say i didnt see all this comming when i posted this thread. The fact of the matter is, it is legal for me to drive a s/c or v8 car and yes it can be insured, so get over the fact of my young age :flipoff: just answer the question or log off.....

[GODSMACK]

Can't say i didnt see all this comming when i posted this thread. The fact of the matter is, it is legal for me to drive a s/c or v8 car and yes it can be insured, so get over the fact of my young age :flipoff: just answer the question or log off..... Same goes for you, if you dont like what your reading, log off. Forums are intended to promote user opinions and info sharing, your not always going to like what people have to post, get over it.

P.S. I think a S/C SV6 is as awesome idea...... when my wife next decides she wants a new car... :1peek:

[tigermoth_744]

doesnt mean it has to be a flame contest...

[robbaggs920]

Tigermoth im tellin ya mate if you s/c a VE SV6 on ya P's it aint legal, people with the green P's (like myself) have a 125kw per tonne law to abide by as well. Basically (in holden terms) means V8s up to when the 5.OL was replaced with the 5.7L donk are okay and Alloytecs with minimal performance mods, like a catback air filter at most CAI no extractors or whatever cos otherwise its illegal. Not really much a chance you will get caught but all the same id rather pick up my gf and drive her to the movies than carry her on my back.

[tigermoth_744]

mate i think you'll find there is different rules in each state. as i have stated before on this thread i got my license before all the more restrictive p plate rules came out. when i got my license i didnt have to show p plates nor is it illegal for me to drive v8's or cars with s/c.....correct me if im wrong ....

[BFXR6]

The guy is able to legally drive a s/c or V8 car, i dont see the problem, dont worry what people say, drive it legally on the streets and run it at the track, i dont see why people are giving him a hard time.

[GODSMACK]

The guy is able to legally drive a s/c or V8 car, i dont see the problem, dont worry what people say, drive it legally on the streets and run it at the track, i dont see why people are giving him a hard time.

No one is giving him a hard time, he asked for opinions and he is getting them.. Some agree that going down the S/C path is good, others recommended he just go for a V8. Could of been worse i spose, i.e if he drove a BF XR6.... :1peek:

[BFXR6]

No one is giving him a hard time, he asked for opinions and he is getting them.. Some agree that going down the S/C path is good, others recommended he just go for a V8. Could of been worse i spose, i.e if he drove a BF XR6.... :1peek:


What with 350 at the rears :flipoff: :rofl:

[JS57SS]

was flicking through an old street machine commodores mag and saw a vz sv6 with a capa s/c kit looked pretty good, i think it said something like 275rwkw i'd be looking at that for sure
good luck with it.

[robbaggs920]

According to the QLD Transport site (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Licensing/Driver_licence/Getting_a_licence/Car/Restrictions/High_powered_and_performance_vehicle_restriction/)

My apologies about the gigantic reference :)

High-powered and performance vehicles include those with:

eight or more cylinders
a turbo-charged or super-charged engine that is not diesel powered
an engine that has a power output of more than 200 kW as per the manufacturer's specifications
a rotary engine that has an engine capacity of more than 1146cc as per the manufacturer's specifications
a modified engine that must be approved under the Transport Operations (Road Use Management – Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999, section 30.

however there are exemptions

"Exemptions

You are eligible to apply for an exemption to drive a high-powered or performance vehicle if you meet the following requirements:

you need to drive a high-powered or performance vehicle:
to, or from, your place of employment
in the course of your employment
to, or from, the education institution you attend
to get medical treatment for yourself for a family member
or

the only car available to you is a high-powered or performance vehicle:
that you owned before 30 June 2007 and you have owned since, including the date you apply for the exemption
that is owned or leased by a member of your immediate family†, or
that an immediate family member† uses as part of an employment or salary package agreement"

these are the rules in place at the moment for P platers (including those on there green P's).

i dunno i think you said that your parents have the car in there name am i right? so i guess that means you could get an exemption. But then it wasnt a high powered car before June 07. still mate it says 200kw and you got 195.

[tigermoth_744]

ok this is the 3rd time ive had to repeat myself and hopefully the last. this is straight of the QLD transport website



Introduced on 1 July 2007, the graduated licensing system is designed to
give novice drivers more supervised on-road driving experience, including
identifying and dealing with hazards, and to improve their driving skills with
minimal distraction.
For learner drivers aged 23 and under, there are six steps you will need to go
through to get your open licence.
Written road rules test
��
Learner licence
��
Q-SAFE practical driving test
��
P1 provisional licence
��
Hazard perception test
��
P2 provisional licence
��
Open licence
This process could be slightly different if you:
held a provisional licence before 1 July 2007
are 24 years of age
are 25 years of age or over.

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebcb7a01f088279/Pdf_yk_2_queenslandlicensing.pdf

Straight from the horses mouth ^^^

It goes onto say the restrictions of high powered when on the new P1/P2 rules. But as i got mine before this date (3rd time ive had to repeat myself) it does not apply.....

[robbaggs920]

So what your tellin me your not on your P's now or something? i know im in Vic and your QLD but when our rules changed over (same time as yours did) i already had my Probationary licence (just like you do) and i thought i got out of it scot free also, but it wasnt till i discussed the matter with a registered Vicroads office at the time (which was my folks believe it or not). and they had recieved this document from the gov't explaining it all. i got no worries accepting im wrong (which even i rekon could be the case here but it isnt beyond reasonable doubt yet) but id reccomend checking because websites have to be updated etc, and its best to as you put it to hear it "from the horses mouth".

[tigermoth_744]

From my limited knowledge of the matter, before those rules came out (in regard to restrictions on high performance cars) there was nothing stopping a driver on their p's from driving a supercharged ls3...but this all changed with the onset of those new regulations brought out in 07. And for drivers who are still on the p's at the time these rules came out were excempt? Can anyone confirm this? As am i pretty sure this is the case...

[Bonkr]

tigermoth i understand what you are saying. i am in the same situation as you in regards to licence restrictions. i got my p's which i am still on before the new laws came in. i am still able to drive my dad's maloo or ss. so what you are saying is correct.

[Roonstain]

yeah, they cannot make the laws retrospective
you entered the licensing system under the old rules, so you will continue under the old rules - good for you
i have to follow the new rules! hate it

[tigermoth_744]

phew was getting worry for a second....

thats sucks roonstain, but i suppose its better to know u cant even though u wanted than didn't and knowing that u could :bawl:

[FireArc]

Feels a bit wierd not being in the centre of a forum argument for once...:hide:

Well...that didn't take long :lmao:

An interesting article from a day or two ago (i'm not directing this article at you, just to add to the overall discussion):


TRAFFIC police have apprehended the state's oldest alleged hoon, after a 70-year-old Lake Clifton man had his car impounded yesterday.

The man was stopped by traffic enforcement group officers on the notorious Old Coast Road at Lake Clifton at 1.15pm.

Police will allege that he was driving his Holden Rodeo at 98km/h - 58km/h above the designated 40km/h speed zone near Coronation Rd.

The man's vehicle was seized by police and will be impounded for seven days.

He will be charged with reckless driving and will be summonsed to appear in court at a later date.

Source - http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24813718-2761,00.html

Seems to me that it takes all ages and all makes/types of cars

[planetdavo]

We all know that "old" people have their fair share of insane moments as well, but the truth is we all spend a very short period of our lives being "young" drivers and an awful long time being "old" drivers. Unfortunately, that very short "young" period has a very high proportion of too little experience but too much belief in ones ability. :teach:

[tigermoth_744]

depends on how u classify old/young.....my mum reckons she is still young but my old man reckons he is getting too old.....

[planetdavo]

Ask an 18 year old what is "old".
They will probably say 22...:lmao:

[tigermoth_744]

thanks for help proving my point, the terms are completely relative to whom says them

[planetdavo]

thanks for help proving my point, the terms are completely relative to whom says them
No problems, but you realise of course that the REAL meaning of my post was to prove that an 18-19-20 year old has a awful lot to learn in life before many will be taken seriously. Taking a "long term" outlook of under 5 years shows ones true maturity...:)