New Auto SS 260KW with active fuel management?

[thermos]

I thought I would just have a look on the Holden Site and it is saying
the new SS auto has 260KW with active fuel management.

When did this change?

[OZChris]

I believe it's a MY9.5 change for auto V8s; I was told production for MY9.5 V8s start in '09.

[GODSMACK]

So the new SS is down 10kw from the previous release.. Fuel saving perhaps?

[_MetalliX_]

Active Fuel Management is Holden's terminology for Displacement on Demand.

[GODSMACK]

Active Fuel Management is Holden's terminology for Displacement on Demand.
I know that, but i was wondering why the drop in power.. Similar to the V6 i suppose, in order to achieve better fuel economy?

[mattsetsfire]

Whats the designation for this engines? They'd be L76's I'd assume.

[GODSMACK]

Whats the designation for this engines? They'd be L76's I'd assume.
I thought it might be the current L98.

[mattsetsfire]

I thought it might be the current L98.

Don't the L98's have the AFM/DOD hardware removed? The collapsible lifters and such. Or is it simply a matter of replacing these components with the AFM/DOD variants?

Cheers,

Matt

[Wonky]

Whats the designation for this engines? They'd be L76's I'd assume.

I have a new SSV A6 ute ordered, yet to be built, so it will have DOD/AFM. I believe the engine will be a L76 (L98 is basically an L76 with the DOD/AFM hardware removed as mattsetsfire said).

[iloveholden]

I have a new SSV A6 ute ordered, yet to be built, so it will have DOD/AFM. I believe the engine will be a L76 (L98 is basically an L76 with the DOD/AFM hardware removed as mattsetsfire said).

So all the auto V8's from now on with have DOD? with 10kw less? Doesnt work will manuals?

Did you know this Wonky when ordering your ute?

[BLACKVE]

Auto only YAH

Another reason to buy MANUAL:goodjob:

[Wonky]

So all the auto V8's from now on with have DOD? with 10kw less? Doesnt work will manuals?

Did you know this Wonky when ordering your ute?

Apparently they can't get everything working correctly on the manuals, hence auto only. Unfortunately I have no choice but to drive an auto so am stuck with it.

That said, I actually reckon I have the best of both worlds! :idea: For me I can just have AFM turned off in the tune and it will basically be the same as an 06 VZ SS. Swingtan has an 06 VZ SS which pulls some very impressive numbers. When I come to sell it a) it will be an 09 built vehicle and b) it will have DOD/AFM which to 99% of people will be a good selling point over an 08 SSV A6 car.

[planetdavo]

Whats the designation for this engines? They'd be L76's I'd assume.
Holden is simply fitting the L76 option they fitted from day one to the Pontiac G8.


I was told production starts in '09.
Correct. Production starts after the compulsary shutdown they are currently on, so during January.

[SS V8]

Fuel economy and a V8, two things generally not linked together.

Yet considering how V8 engine economy has improved compared to the old 5lt and performance has gone up from 185kw HSV to 317kw why Holden would release a detuned, possibly underperforming VZ engined 09 VE has got me beat.
Initially I thought the same as most when Holden first announced the release of it's V8 with AFM in it's early 08 TV ads. Since then we've seen it postponed to the last quarter 08 to January build, which means not before March for delivery. We've seen the 180kw V6 detuned 5kw to 175kw to gain a poofteenth 0.4 lt/100klm in economy. Now the leader of the pack has also come under the knife, in an effort to improve economy, and what do the insiders say? up to 1lt/100klm which could mean when fuel was at it's highest about $1.50per 100klm, and, only when cruising on a flat road under no load.

I spent months waiting for a VE SSV with AFM thinking of resale and economy but when I heard Auto only, March 09, Price increase, and now 260kw gave up and just purchased a MY9.5 Clubsport R8, plated Nov 25 2008, 317kw, Manual, Red with Sunroof, 1600kgTow Bar and Tint for $53000 drive away, delivery Dec 31 and it also comes with the new 6 speed manual transmission.
With the current 9N price deals ending Dec 31 a manual stock R8 can be had for $51000 drive away in Melbourne, with discounts like that on a HSV makes the percieved $1.50 per 100klm saving seem insignificant.

Each to their own I suppose

[SS V8]

Fuel economy and a V8, two things generally not linked together.

Yet considering how V8 engine economy has improved compared to the old 5lt and performance has gone up from 185kw HSV to 317kw why Holden would release a detuned, possibly underperforming VZ engined 09 VE has got me beat.
Initially I thought the same as most when Holden first announced the release of it's V8 with AFM in it's early 08 TV ads. Since then we've seen it postponed to the last quarter 08 to January build, which means not before March for delivery. We've seen the 180kw V6 detuned 5kw to 175kw to gain a poofteenth 0.4 lt/100klm in economy. Now the leader of the pack has also come under the knife, in an effort to improve economy, and what do the insiders say? up to 1lt/100klm which could mean when fuel was at it's highest about $1.50per 100klm, and, only when cruising on a flat road under no load.

I spent months waiting for a VE SSV with AFM thinking of resale and economy but when I heard Auto only, March 09, Price increase, and now 260kw gave up and just purchased a MY9.5 Clubsport R8, plated Nov 25 2008, 317kw, Manual, Red with Sunroof, 1600kgTow Bar and Tint for $53000 drive away, delivery Dec 31 and it also comes with the new 6 speed manual transmission.
With the current 9N price deals ending Dec 31 a manual stock R8 can be had for $51000 drive away in Melbourne, with discounts like that on a HSV makes the percieved $1.50 per 100klm saving seem insignificant.

Each to their own I suppose

[iloveholden]

Apparently they can't get everything working correctly on the manuals, hence auto only. Unfortunately I have no choice but to drive an auto so am stuck with it.

That said, I actually reckon I have the best of both worlds! :idea: For me I can just have AFM turned off in the tune and it will basically be the same as an 06 VZ SS. Swingtan has an 06 VZ SS which pulls some very impressive numbers. When I come to sell it a) it will be an 09 built vehicle and b) it will have DOD/AFM which to 99% of people will be a good selling point over an 08 SSV A6 car.

ah ok....congrats on your purchase btw although it is sad to see the SSV go...:bawl:

[OZChris]

Fuel economy and a V8, two things generally not linked together.

With the current 9N price deals ending Dec 31 a manual stock R8 can be had for $51000 drive away in Melbourne, with discounts like that on a HSV makes the percieved $1.50 per 100klm saving seem insignificant.

Agreed, esp when petrol is around a $1 a litre and the massive savings currently on 9N models :)

[planetdavo]

Agreed, esp when petrol is around a $1 a litre and the massive savings currently on 9N models :)
But with the economy basically in a recession, it's still a hard sell flogging big cars out there, even at these (unsustainable) deals...

[Hubble80]

Apparently they can't get everything working correctly on the manuals, hence auto only.

A bit like the Supercharged V6 I spose...:jester:

[vxclubsport569]

Sorry to buck the trend here but I think it is a good thing. 0.5-1L per 100kms adds up during the life of your car. At a cost of 10kW's or so, (less than 5%) it won't be really noticable

Without this sort of thinking less and less people will be thinking V8's which will only hurt resale/depcreation on these sort of vehicles in the years ahead.

[igniton]

they will all have bugger all resale value when they are 12 months old ...just like all the ones out there now...

[fx160]

Sorry to buck the trend here but I think it is a good thing. 0.5-1L per 100kms adds up during the life of your car. At a cost of 10kW's or so, (less than 5%) it won't be really noticable

Without this sort of thinking less and less people will be thinking V8's which will only hurt resale/depcreation on these sort of vehicles in the years ahead.
i did the math before buying my ve
as i was initialy waiting for the afm to come out
at best $1000 saved every 100,000 k's
even the cars i have kept the longest have only done 260,000ks over 8 years
with over $16,000 saved on purchase price i would have never been able to recoup that if i had waited
i could have always bought a v6 if i had wanted to save fuel:eyes:

kev

[vecommo]

I am beginning to feel rather disillusioned with Holden at the moment. Power levels should be increasing with every new model release, not dropping. First the V6 dropped a handful of kW, now I find that the V8 has gone from 270 to 260kW.
IMO, this 'AFM' is as useful as pedals on a wheelchair. It is just a marketing gimmick designed to appeal to the latte sippers and tree huggers. Not only has it resulted in a loss of power, it has also added a whole heap of unneccesary complexity to the engine for very little gain, if any at all.

[Wonky]

I am beginning to feel rather disillusioned with Holden at the moment. Power levels should be increasing with every new model release, not dropping. First the V6 dropped a handful of kW, now I find that the V8 has gone from 270 to 260kW.
IMO, this 'AFM' is as useful as pedals on a wheelchair. It is just a marketing gimmick designed to appeal to the latte sippers and tree huggers. Not only has it resulted in a loss of power, it has also added a whole heap of unneccesary complexity to the engine for very little gain, if any at all.

A tune will soon fix it and the people who know nothing about the ability to increase a car's factory performance will be the same people who will be pleased to say (in their ignorance) that their car does its bit for the environment.

I'm guessing that anyone on here who knows anything about what's really going on would have got a tune anyway! So, you have two lots of happy people - the ignorant who think AFM is great and people on here and similar forums who will have a tune and get similar economy with better performance. As people like Swingtan have shown with their VZ L76s, it's still possible to get similar great results to those of the L98s.

[vecommo]

A tune will soon fix it and the people who know nothing about the ability to increase a car's factory performance will be the same people who will be pleased to say (in their ignorance) that their car does its bit for the environment.

I'm guessing that anyone on here who knows anything about what's really going on would have got a tune anyway! So, you have two lots of happy people - the ignorant who think AFM is great and people on here and similar forums who will have a tune and get similar economy with better performance. As people like Swingtan have shown with their VZ L76s, it's still possible to get similar great results to those of the L98s.

Good point Wonky, I'm sure the aftermarket will have a more than adequate fix for it, but I was speaking strictly stock for stock. In reality, it's only a small minority of new car buyers who will modify their cars in such ways. My point is that the average joe will look at the 260kW figure and consider it to be rather lame compared to the opposition, now that it has reverted back to VZ power levels. Why would the average joe want to buy a new 260kw ss when the previous model was 270kw? My point is that with all the technology available these days, it is unacceptabe for power levels to be going backwards rather than forwards.

[iloveholden]

Good point Wonky, I'm sure the aftermarket will have a more than adequate fix for it, but I was speaking strictly stock for stock. In reality, it's only a small minority of new car buyers who will modify their cars in such ways. My point is that the average joe will look at the 260kW figure and consider it to be rather lame compared to the opposition, now that it has reverted back to VZ power levels. Why would the average joe want to buy a new 260kw ss when the previous model was 270kw? My point is that with all the technology available these days, it is unacceptabe for power levels to be going backwards rather than forwards.

That is true but i can see what wonky is saying....the people that know the SSV has dropped 10kw for AFM and are really interested is fwkw and rwhp are the type (like us) that will if they want, erase the afm with a tune and recope more power and even better economy.

Anyway if you really dont want AFM....buy a manual (if you can).

[Wonky]

Good point Wonky, I'm sure the aftermarket will have a more than adequate fix for it, but I was speaking strictly stock for stock. In reality, it's only a small minority of new car buyers who will modify their cars in such ways. My point is that the average joe will look at the 260kW figure and consider it to be rather lame compared to the opposition, now that it has reverted back to VZ power levels. Why would the average joe want to buy a new 260kw ss when the previous model was 270kw? My point is that with all the technology available these days, it is unacceptabe for power levels to be going backwards rather than forwards.

To most average Joes the 10kw will be neither here nor there, especially given that on the flip side they are led to believe they will get better economy. I bet that even in 260kw guise they are still a bloody quick machine for something straight from the factory. Most people who are concerned with out and out performance and are ignorant of tunes will probably buy the manual anyway.

[FatBoy]

Fuel economy and a V8, two things generally not linked together.

Yet considering how V8 engine economy has improved compared to the old 5lt and performance has gone up from 185kw HSV to 317kw why Holden would release a detuned, possibly underperforming VZ engined 09 VE has got me beat.
Initially I thought the same as most when Holden first announced the release of it's V8 with AFM in it's early 08 TV ads. Since then we've seen it postponed to the last quarter 08 to January build, which means not before March for delivery. We've seen the 180kw V6 detuned 5kw to 175kw to gain a poofteenth 0.4 lt/100klm in economy. Now the leader of the pack has also come under the knife, in an effort to improve economy, and what do the insiders say? up to 1lt/100klm which could mean when fuel was at it's highest about $1.50per 100klm, and, only when cruising on a flat road under no load.

I spent months waiting for a VE SSV with AFM thinking of resale and economy but when I heard Auto only, March 09, Price increase, and now 260kw gave up and just purchased a MY9.5 Clubsport R8, plated Nov 25 2008, 317kw, Manual, Red with Sunroof, 1600kgTow Bar and Tint for $53000 drive away, delivery Dec 31 and it also comes with the new 6 speed manual transmission.
With the current 9N price deals ending Dec 31 a manual stock R8 can be had for $51000 drive away in Melbourne, with discounts like that on a HSV makes the percieved $1.50 per 100klm saving seem insignificant.

Each to their own I suppose

delivery Dec 31 and it also comes with the new 6 speed manual transmission.

Hey mate, congrats on your purchase - nice choice !

But i have to ask - what's this about a new gearbox ? Maybe i've missed it but has there been a recent upgrade to the manual Holden / HSV boxes ?

Cheers,
Paul...

[The-V8-Power]

delivery Dec 31 and it also comes with the new 6 speed manual transmission.

Hey mate, congrats on your purchase - nice choice !

But i have to ask - what's this about a new gearbox ? Maybe i've missed it but has there been a recent upgrade to the manual Holden / HSV boxes ?

Cheers,
Paul...

Yeah the upgrade is to the TR6060 instead of the old T56. Most reviews say it has better shifts and easier gates. These were taken from an R8 Tourer review.

[FatBoy]

Sh!t hey ? Didn't know about that one mate, thanks for the quick response. Guess you learn something everyday ! :)

Don't suppose anyone knows when they went into production ? And are they across the whole V8 range or only for HSV at this stage ?

[spank]

Good point SS V8 but you will be amazed at how much difference it does make at the pumps if you do a lot of klm's, ive recently bought a WM 6.0 caprice, its a fair bit thirstier than than my WK GRANGE, that i sold to a mate, i also have a WL 5.7 caprice still, it is also better, around 1 litre per 100klm if i really cared i would either buy a six or go lpg, so not complaining more of an observation. i used to reset my trip computer on the WK every service so i would look at the avg over 10,000klm was always around 11.8 -12.1 the wm was 13.4 after 10k and now after a reset and 7000klm is 12.8 if you do about 100,000 klm a year it adds up!

[The-V8-Power]

Sh!t hey ? Didn't know about that one mate, thanks for the quick response. Guess you learn something everyday ! :)

Don't suppose anyone knows when they went into production ? And are they across the whole V8 range or only for HSV at this stage ?

As far as I know it is only on the HSV's atm since it featured on the SV08 to. Not to sure bout Holdens range though sorry mate :)

[iloveholden]

I dont think the TR6060 has made its way into the Holden line up yet but correct me someone if im wrong.

[SS V8]

At this stage the TR6060 is on the latest MY9.5 HSV series. Pick mine up Wed Dec 31, plated Nov 25/08 when I quizzed the dealer whether it had the new trans he seemed surprised it did given it was included in the latest sales costing me $24000.00 less than 6 months ago pricing. It's the same tranny in the Ford F6 that was tested by Wheels during a comparo road test which produced comments: "smoother and less notchy" and "no tester missed a gear" unlike the T56 in the GTS

A work colleague who was considering a small BMW sports given the prices for NEW GTS's earlier in the year just signed for a NEW GTS at $59000.00 drive-away yesterday. FTG Holden have a black demo GTS manual with 4700klm for $54990.00 + ORC all must be paid and picked up by Dec 31.

During 2008 while I was considering what to buy, I heard and saw TV ad's Holden were launching AFM in 2008, then read of the new TR6060 6 speed trans. Well AFM is now March delivery due to plant shutdowns and Holden procrastination, and the tranny is currenlty only HSV....I suppose until Holden pulls their finger out and does an upgrade to the almost 3 year old VE.

Maybe this downturn in sales will be a lesson to GM and Ford, don't run your models into the ground, people who turn over lease cars every 2-3 years want something new not just a new indicator lens color like the BA to BF to BF2, 6 bloody years, 4 too many if you ask me.

[4VMan]

Personally id be very dissapointed if i was looking at an auto SS... even if it did save 1l/100k's on the average usage of 15000 k's per year you'll only save 150l or about $170.. PER YEAR!!!... and you loose 10kw to boot.
Early independent usage shows identical consumption to non AFM SS's and a noticeable drop in performance....

[planetdavo]

Maybe this downturn in sales will be a lesson to GM and Ford, don't run your models into the ground, people who turn over lease cars every 2-3 years want something new not just a new indicator lens color like the BA to BF to BF2, 6 bloody years, 4 too many if you ask me.
They are trying to do more of what the Europeans do, which is little if any external updating over a 5 or 6 year model run, but many changes under the skin. Look at the current AH Astra, which came out in 2004, or most BMW's, Audi's and Merc's, which are often the same. Even the Jap stuff is going down this path, with Mazda's recent range (before the new 6 and 2) having been out for a number of years with little more than a taillight colour change in 5 years, but numerous changes under the skin.
Sheet metal changes are expensive, for little improvement in sales. Where your BA/BF scenario fell apart for Ford was the release of a BRAND NEW, very good looking VE Commodore, whereas FG Falcon will hardly scare Holden into wholesale appearance changes...

[Vulture]

Only problem I can see is that it will add to the cost of a cam change just like in the MY06 6.0L VZ series.

[LTH-00L]

Here's an article from drive about this. They say they've driven one.

It also makes mention of why it has 10kw less than the current SS, & why it is only available in Auto. Pretty much what has been debated in this post

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=59953&vf=12

[Turner]

I have a question about AFM and hope someone on here can answer it for me.

If your car with AFM was stopped somewhere idling for prolonged periods of time does the engine go back to 4 cylinders? Or does this only happen whilst driving?

Thanks in advance

[Wonky]

I have a question about AFM and hope someone on here can answer it for me.

If your car with AFM was stopped somewhere idling for prolonged periods of time does the engine go back to 4 cylinders? Or does this only happen whilst driving?

Thanks in advance

I am not 100% sure but believe it only happens when cruising at constant speed with the engine not under load.

[planetdavo]

I am not 100% sure but believe it only happens when cruising at constant speed with the engine not under load.
Yep.
I don't believe any of the various AFM's (GM, Honda, Chrysler) shut down at idle, as there would have to be idle quality effects.