old school cars

[SICK SS]

This was sort of inspired buy the thread in the ls tech on how heavy an ls motor is. Why dose every one think old holdens and fords are heavy tanks. I went for a ride in a nice 4 door hq with a young fella who owned it and just asked out of curiosity asked him what it weighs, he said im not sure but it would have to be close to two tonnes i just had a little giggle to myself and left it at that. I mean people who own this old girls think there made out of real steel and when you realy think about it a ve ssv weighs around 1800kg mark imagine how much more it would weigh if the spoilers were steel and all the othere parts they use in these tubby cars to cut down on the weight were made from steel. And the first commodores were even lighter at around 1200kg. Imagine how well a bolt on ls motor with just a tune would go in one of the light old school cars. I would love to here some peoples thoughts on why everyone assumes these cars are heavy:)

hq specs
# Kerb Weight:
* Belmont: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Kingswood: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Monaro Coupe: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Monaro LS Coupe: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Premier Sedan: 3000lb (1360kg)
* Monaro GTS: 3150lb (1429kg)
* For Station Wagons, add 130lb (59kg)
* For V8 engine, add 90lb (41kg)
taken from http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_HQ_technical_specifications.htm

ford xc specs
# Kerb Weight:
* Sedan: 3252lb (1475kg)
* Hardtop: 3303lb (1498kg)

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/falcon_XC_technical_specifications.htm

[HOWQUICK]

This was sort of inspired buy the thread in the ls tech on how heavy an ls motor is. Why dose every one think old holdens and fords are heavy tanks. I went for a ride in a nice 4 door hq with a young fella who owned it and just asked out of curiosity asked him what it weighs, he said im not sure but it would have to be close to two tonnes i just had a little giggle to myself and left it at that. I mean people who own this old girls think there made out of real steel and when you realy think about it a ve ssv weighs around 1800kg mark imagine how much more it would weigh if the spoilers were steel and all the othere parts they use in these tubby cars to cut down on the weight were made from steel. And the first commodores were even lighter at around 1200kg. Imagine how well a bolt on ls motor with just a tune would go in one of the light old school cars. I would love to here some peoples thoughts on why everyone assumes these cars are heavy:)

hq specs
# Kerb Weight:
* Belmont: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Kingswood: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Monaro Coupe: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Monaro LS Coupe: 2950lb (1338kg)
* Premier Sedan: 3000lb (1360kg)
* Monaro GTS: 3150lb (1429kg)
* For Station Wagons, add 130lb (59kg)
* For V8 engine, add 90lb (41kg)
taken from http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_HQ_technical_specifications.htm

ford xc specs
# Kerb Weight:
* Sedan: 3252lb (1475kg)
* Hardtop: 3303lb (1498kg)

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/falcon_XC_technical_specifications.htm

I've done a few LS into Hq etc and they are a nice match for the chassis via power to weight....you soon forget how well late stuff drives.

[Jac001]

I would love to here some peoples thoughts on why everyone assumes these cars are heavy:)



Because they were compared to cars of the era. And by todays comparison they "feel' heavy.

Tell me what was the weight of a 1975 corolla? or datsun 200B?


ps. Wish we still had my old mans 253 HQ belmont Ute. :(

[GMMAD]

back in the day they where heavy
most people from that era still associate them as a heavy car
but yes when you compare them to modern commodores they are much lighter

[SICK SS]

I've done a few LS into Hq etc and they are a nice match for the chassis via power to weight....you soon forget how well late stuff drives.

Yeah very true do you have any time slips mate would love to know the mods that were done and the times it ran.

[sheeks84]

New cars weigh so much mainly due to having so much electronic gear onboard. There would have to be literally kilometres of cabling, solenoids, relays etc. The HQ Monaro i have feels like a tank cos it is, the panels seem like they are 1/4 inch thick.

[STATIE]

I've got a mate with a 57 Chev 4 door who was always going on about how heavy it was - got it weighed - guess what 1450KG's - less than my ute with everything I could rip out of it at the time.

[VW Golf R32]

New cars weigh so much mainly due to having so much electronic gear onboard. There would have to be literally kilometres of cabling, solenoids, relays etc. The HQ Monaro i have feels like a tank cos it is, the panels seem like they are 1/4 inch thick.

A VE Commodore sedan bare shell with all of the hang on panels will weigh less then a HQ Kingswood sedan bare shell with all of the hang on panels. A lot of weight has been taken out of the body of modern cars but that gain has been outweighed by all of the features fitted to modern cars.

Old cars are regarded as heavy cars because they were much heavier then cars from non US manufacturers of the same period. They also feel heavy to drive because tyres and suspension technology has evolved significantly.

[German Statesman]

My '63 Impala was 1810kg according to the Council weighbridge and that was with a 409 engine, which was the first of the big blocks.

I'm driving an '08 Chrysler 300C diesel at the moment, and most of its weight is reinforcing beams and safety equipment...the sheetmetal is thinner than years gone by but in a massive paradox, they've had to add weight to improve stability and crashworthiness :confused:

I was told by a Ford designer years ago that weight is the enemy in car design, but it simply has to be there for safety reasons.

[Road Warrior]

Well to be fair on modern cars, they have to comply with all manner of structural crash safety regs that the oldies didn't. This all adds weight. Then you've got the electronics and peripherals and whatnot.

Old cars were big and they were assumed to be heavy because of their size, cast iron motors and dirty great big chrome plated bumper bars. But if I had a choice of being in a collision in an HQ or a VE I know what I would pick, and it wouldn't be the one with chrome bumpers :D

[monaro_mad]

Our HQ Coupe weighs around 1460kg no driver, this includes cage etc. Bro tagged the wall fairly hard last year @ 180km and only dented the rear quarter/front guard, hate to see what would happen to a late-model commie in the same situation.

With the koni yellows all round and lowered springs the old girl handles surprisingly well.

[Dacious]

The original FX sedan weighed 1019kg. But then it had a lightweight 3-speed box, no inner guards, a firewall so thin it cracks without provocation, no heater or even a fan, only one doorlock on the passenger side, no indicators or switch or wiring for same, no power brakes, no radio etc etc etc. The wheels wer 15" by 3.5" with 5.5" tyres.

[vz6.0]

wow, i guess thats why you need 50000kw to run 12's in a lsx commy.

my kingswood, with no stereo equipment, no heater/ac, and the minimum factory installed stuff to meet roadworthy regs, still weighs 1560kg.

No one disputes a late model car weighs more, but it sure as shit not because of panel structure.

Also, no one will claim a solid car is "safer" than something built with crumple zones in mind, but minor incidents WILL NOT cause thousands of dollars damage to my car, where even a minor incident in a commy means a week in the panel shop.

Sounds like a whinge thread, because someones late model car with xxx killerwatsis more than a mate doesnt run the numbers.

i respect the "easy" power of the late model stuff, and would love to take the engine from a lot of the builds i see on this site, and shove it in an lh torana, so im not a "hater", but i do find the moroso power compared to the supposed dyno power somewhat amusing on a lot of late model cars.

When i built my car, (vt days, for you blokes) i priced a 5.7 ls1 and nearly fell over, so a stroked holden got the nod, now, it would be a 6.0 twin turbo, if i were building it today.

(probably cost the same dollars lol)

[A^K^T]

71 LC GTR was about 1050kg , i wish you could get them over the pits with an LS1 as it would make it quite a nippy little shopping trolly :)

[iloveholden]

71 LC GTR was about 1050kg , i wish you could get them over the pits with an LS1 as it would make it quite a nippy little shopping trolly :)

Does an LSX motor fit?

If so it would be happy days :smilesandbanana:

[vz6.0]

I know someone who is doing exactly that, will be engineered in vic....

Hello Colin, whens it going to be finished?:jester:

[German Statesman]

New cars will kill themselves in an impact to save the occupants...write-offs are now more common than what they were 40yrs ago, but a car will deliberately crumple to absorb impact inertia....have a close look at the frames of your boot lids and bonnets - you will see indentations in the frames which are basically 'fold' points where the panesl will bend/crumple to take the force of an impact.

When I had my BMW 740iL, I went to a wrecking yard to scavenge some parts off a totalled '99 750iL (missed out on the V12 :bawl:), and the front and rear were unrecognisable - however, the passenger safety cell was intact and the passenger compartment had not one dent or bend in it. I learned that it got sandwiched between an 8 tonne pantec and a B-double cattle road train outside of Toowoomba at 100km/h, and the three people in the 7-series walked away :eeeeek:

[NewVLT]

It's very noticeable jumping from the new Calais V V8 wagon (1930kg's) into my old VL SL turbo (1300kg's if you're lucky).

After driving the VE for a few months now it feels so much more solid, safer and stable that I barely ever feel the need to take the VL out on the highway anymore for it's weekend blast. It's almost scary and I feel so much more vulnerable in it (maybe more to do with all the glazing than anything else) than I ever did in the previous 20-odd years of driving it.

600kg's is a massive amount of extra weight to lug around though.

[VYSHSV8]

Does an LSX motor fit?

If so it would be happy days :smilesandbanana:

It will eventually fit :)