Test drove an SSV Sportswagon and R8 Tourer

[mxfly]

Hello everyone,

New member here looking to buy a new wagon in the near future. After driving and owning 14 or so Nissans in the last 20 years, it's time to get myself a nice new wagon for my business, my family and to tow the track car around (even though I have a wagon already, but she can't tow). Never owned a Holden before. Closest were a couple of 70's Corvettes so I guess it's close enough.. :)

But just a quick history on my motoring experience. I've own and modified cars from little nuggets that you call a Daihatsu Charade to R34 GTR's with 350kw at all fours.

Well after observing some great deals out there through the media, I got enticed with the Sportswagon so I took a visit to the local Holden dealership and checked out a silver auto SSV with no options. The salesman was very knowledgeable with the car and discussed it without going too overboard. We then took her for a test drive. First impression was very positive and was enjoying the car immensely. Power delivery was incredibly smooth and pulled to near redline effortlessly. It wasn't a gut wrenching, G force in your face sensation but there's enough power and torque there to keep a car nut like myself, quite satisfied. Steering felt very responsive and precise while the struts soaked up bumps nicely. Perhaps a little too soft for my liking but I guess I'm used to very firm coilovers in the Skyline.

Now here's my negative points on the car.

The brakes are damn awful. Maybe it was that particular car but it felt very spongy and lacked any bite unless you really stomp on the pedal. Brakes were not heated up as well as we started driving the car from dead cold. I asked the salesman what he thought of the stoppers and he felt they were normal. Maybe it needed a fluid change, or different pads with better coefficient but it certainly didn't feel right to me. The interior plastics used felt very cheap, especially the window switches. I hope they don't break easily. However, the leather was very nice and appealing. The exhaust note is too damn quiet! Lacked any growl or throatiness. But that could easily be rectified i guess. Boot space I thought could be bigger. I'm used to my Stagea that can fit 2 sets of wheels and all my tools and 3 jerrys with rear seats folded down. Somehow, I don't think a Sportswagon can fit that much, but i'll certainly try if/when I get one. Finally, the auto tranny. Flicking up the gears had no issues. It felt quite smooth actually. But when i wanted to pick up the revs from a higher gear, it would change down, hesitate, then change down another gear again. I dont know if that's normal or not but in the hesitation, you're losing momentum. Should be a single change process. I didn't try the tiptronic, or whatever you call that manual shift mode.

So overall, my impressions of a Sportswagon was very good. She felt solid, there's ample power and torque to tow a car, handles nicely without feeling floaty for such a big rig, there's enough space to fit a big family (not yet but we will.. lol) and she looks absolutely amazing. Brakes can be fixed, cheapo plastics I can live with and exhaust can be ditched easily. I am pleasantly surprised at what Holden has achieved with the new wagon. Big thumbs up!

So after the drive, we sat down and discussed pricing. We ended up with options such as tow bar, tint, weather shields, and other little things I can't remember, for a total price of about $45-46k driveaway. Was very happy with the price and almost made my decision there and then, but I really wanted to try out a Tourer before I made my mind up. Unfortunately, that Holden dealership didn't have any Tourers I could test, so I had to go somewhere else.

I'll have to continue with my assessment of the Tourer later today as I need to step out for a few hours. Will be back but in the meantime, I hope you all enjoyed my writeup :)

EDIT - Sry didn't realise I put this in the wrong forum. Stupid me.. :bash:

[diabolic]

Nice one mate. The auto is extremely sloppy, I personally can't wait until I eventually get a proper auto tune in mine. I also agree about the brakes, spongey as hell, they'll also need an upgrade for me I think :)

Unfortunately it's gonna be a long process for me, gotta save up for one at a time :p

Hope you enjoy it when you decide mate, they're a nice bit of gear!

Cheers,
Dan

[Swordie]

I would predict 55 to 60K for the Tourer. Nicer looking than the sedan.

The closest BMW has is the M5 and that would be north of 200K if sold in Australia.

[spanks]

After buying a SS-V ute at the start of last month i couldn't agree more about the auto....even in manual mode the shifts are so S L O W....

Had a VY SS witha modified 4L60E that changed hard and fast,which proberbly makes the 6L80 seem very slow....but tune is getting done next weekend hopefully so all should be better.

Brakes are not the best.Certainly not the worst i've felt though.My wife has a VE SS sedan and hers feel a touch softer than mine.

Exhaust has been rectified with full X force system.

Otherwise i think its a great car.I was tossing up between ute and sportswagon.Even checked out the Tourer but was a bit out of my price range.

I say congrats to Holden....Great job overall

[Carby650]

Good write up Mxfly. :goodjob:
Interesting to get feedback from traditional non-Holden buyers.
I have just purchased a SS Wagon 2 weeks ago aswell.
I too find the brakes a little soft compared to my older VY SS however I am wondering if this is due more to the weight of the car. Albeit if the car is heavier surely it should have bigger brakes.
I am reserving judgement until the brakes have had a chance to bed in. Car has only done 400kms.
Plastics whilst a little cheapish should be put into perspective. Where else can you buy a vehilce like that for under $50k. It's a lotta car for the price and hence maybe alos part of the brake issue.
I'm still coming to grips with the auto. It is a step up from my A4 in the VY but I too think the changes are a little slow. Would like to hear more about the Auto tune.
cheers
Carby650

[mxfly]

Thanks Dan,

I'm very excited and looking forward to seeing one in the garage soon :)

Ok, now to the R8 Tourer. Firstly, I have to comment on the price. At $68,000 drive away price. It's a whopping 22-23k more than the Sportswagon. Sure, the R8 had leather, auto, tow bar, and other little bits and pieces which added some $7k to the RRP of $68k, but the price difference is still staggering. Can a 22 grand difference be justified? That i'm still trying to work out.

Well my first impression of seeing the Tourer in the flesh was awe inspiring. I thought the SSV wagon was pretty, but this car is an absolute stunner! Front bar and skirts really compliments the base car. I dig those side grills on the fenders as well. Tail end looks like a stock SSV except for the chrome strip. I think the tail lights should have been treated with the same as other HSV sedans.

Hopped inside and first thing was how closely it resembles the standard wagons. I had hoped the plastics got an improvement but my wishes failed short. Most notable difference was the dash, analogue gauges (albeit a little small) and the front seats with having higher bolsters for your thighs. I must say, the seats are damn fantastic in terms of lateral support and firmness. They rival my GTR seats. I'm sure there's other differences as well but wasn't aware of them at the time. Was keen to just get in and drive! We then headed off for a quick spin around the block. Having only 10kms on the odometer, I decided not to rev the new motor too high. Just poking the needle between 4 and 5k was enough to convince me the LS3 is a magic piece of machinery with plenty of poke. Exhaust note is very audible as well which i enjoyed immensely. Ride is noticeably stiffer than a stock wagon, but it's not bone jarring. Definitely firm but the struts and springs combination is a good match i reckon. If only I had an opportunity to really test her out on some real winding roads.

But the real beauty that distinguishes a Tourer and Sportswagon imo are the brakes. Holy moley they are incredibly huge for a factory car. To achieve a similar setup on my GTR, it would cost upwards of 10k easy (which I've done before in the past). Asked the salesman for more info on them and the only thing he mentioned was they're made by AP Racing. Well the stoppers worked as nice as they look for sure. Initial bite was very good and didnt feel spongy like the SSV did. I didn't really stomp on them but for street use it's more than adequate. I wonder how they would respond when heated up in conditions like on a track.

About the auto box, I cannot make any firm decisions as I didnt really push this car. All I can say is that it felt pretty much exactly like the Sportswagon.

So in my conclusion, both vehicles are immensely enjoyable to drive and either of them would be a nice addition to the garage. Obviously the R8 would be my choice, but can that 22k difference in price be justified? I'd have to say no. I was upfront with the R8 salesperson and told him that if the car was about 58-60 grand including the options and drive away, I would take it. He quickly responded by mentioning that stock on Tourers are very limit and demand is high so therefore, very little discount can be offered. At that time I took his word but when I came back home and did a quick check on Carsales.com.au, there was almost 3 pages of new/demo Tourers on offer. I'm hoping that HSV can change their price structure on the Tourers soon, like they've done with almost all their other models. And if demand is really there, they should increase their production in 09 as well.

[CLUBRED]

You're not from FFF by chance?

[Djbarnstar]

Hmmm, Yes I agree that the premium for the Tourer is excessive.
I'm looking at a trade in 11 months as the lease will be up on my SS sedan.
I have however been through the process of upgrading the sedan to HSV levels (IMO).
Brakes are the most expensive part of the process and the biggest difference between the two IMO. Unless the price of the tourer drops dramatically as seen with the sedan (53K driveaway) then I think the SS is the pick and upgrade it yourself.
The biggest problem with the brakes is that if you want to put AP Racing on you will need 6-7K minimum and bigger rims.. 19's, which puts you into SSV territory (an extra 7K).
After boiling the brakes at the 1st track day I took it to0, my solution was to add High performance fluid, HP pads, Braided lines and DBA 4000 slotted rotors. This has made it a different car, and will cop sustained abuse at the track. The upgrade cost 2K installed. It will never be AP racing levels but BFYB its a good option.

Then add exhaust, OTR, tune, coilovers, UDP and it will be a nice drive. All up it will cost around 10K, but that allows a further 12K under the tourer... Just enough for a TT kit...:love:

You are right about the look though.. The tourer is horn. Particulary in white with dark tint.

[nickh]

Is there 22k difference in the two vehicles..

Body wise

*Full body kit (well to some it may not matter but the simple fact is that they look horn)
*Front fender guard treatment
*19 inch staggared wheels (19 x 8 and 19 x 9.5) with the rears having 275s
*AP Racing brake set up 4 piston 365mm up front (dont quote me but there around there somewhere)
*HSV Suspension (lets face it it not as good as aftermarket but its hell better that fe2)

If you were to buy any of thse parts to modify or upgrade ur SSV wagon most of those parts alone would make up the 22k difference

Then your talking about ls3 and trim differences .. so i guess depends on who you talk to is there justification of the price difference .i tend to think so

Also as a resale thing (not a great time to mention it) but realistically i think the HSV will have a better resale.

[Swordie]

Its a buyers market. Screw what the Salesman told you.

[adamw1]

Why are we comparing the discounted price of an SSV to the RRP of an R8 tourer?

SSV sportwagon can be had for $42k onroad (depending on whether you want auto or manual, I bought manual) - see other threads on this topic.

I would be very surprised if you couldn't get an R8 tourer for around $54k onroad.

[CLUBRED]

Makes me think that the Wagon would actually be near on par with the sedan price considering they don't really do much to the rear of the wagon, yet you get nice brake LED light assemblies and wing on the sedan. Try another dealer.

[GODSMACK]

MXFLY - do i know you from the 350Z forum?

CLUBRED - he's not from the FFF (AFAIK), quite a frequent poster on the 350Z site (TBC), so i doubt he's here to start sh*t..

[Mega76]

Great write up MXFLY. Look forward to reading what you end up getting. I to am dissapointed about the rear tail light set up on the wagons & for that matter the SS utes. I thought they could have at least done a bit more on the Clubsport rear end & as a minimum the SS.

The rear tail lights on my VZ SS look great. Not sure why they couldn't carry through a similar design on the VE utes & wagons???

In saying that I think I'll be getting a SSV wagon in the new year regardless of the rear tail light set up :)

Cheers, Matt

[Big_Valven]

Great writeups, it seems to follow most people's sentiments on these vehicles. I think you'll be able to have the tourer for <60k if you go to the right place and talk to the right people :)

[LTH-00L]

MXFLY, As i read through your first post I came to the conclusion that based on your "critisism" that you'd be much happier with an HSV. They are a more "track" focused car than the Commodore and a little more like what you're use to.

1. The brakes - You are right saying the brakes were the biggest let down as this is the case with almost every Commodore model ever made. One thing i always upgrade on my Holdens are the brakes. See Holden like any other maintream car makers have an obligation to make sure their cars stop well upto a speed of about 110. Beyond that they are not liable and under normal driving conditions you would never get the brakes hot enough to fail. Believe me, they do fail though out side "normal" driving parameters! - HSV brakes are much better and have among the best stopping distance from 100km/h for a car of this size and weight.

2. The Ride - The ride in the SS-V in my opinion is perfect as it soaks up bumps, but can also take on the twisty stuff. As you mentioned coming from more track focused cars you may find it a little floaty but i'm sure your family would apreciate it. - Again the HSV suspension is a little firmer and would be more to your liking.

3. The interior plastics - I don't think these are too bad.. I mean i haven't heard of any window switches breaking, These would probably be the last things to fail. If they used the plastics BMW or Audi use they'd have to charge as much as them for the car. I deffinately prefer the Commodore interior over the Skylines. - The HSV atleast gets some decent gages aboved the dash.

The price might be a little excessive but if you have the money, you have to think of it this way, which car will you be happier with? Whether it's 45K or 70K it's still a fair bit of money and you don't want to buy a car that you'll get sick of or regret buying 6 - 12 months down the track.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Chukky

[mxfly]

MXFLY, As i read through your first post I came to the conclusion that based on your "critisism" that you'd be much happier with an HSV. They are a more "track" focused car than the Commodore and a little more like what you're use to.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Chukky

Hi Chukky,

Yes you're right. I would be happier with the hsv no doubt. And i agree with all your points. Just the only one about the gauges. The GT-R has a vast array of readings you can keep an eye on. You usual water temp, oil temp, oil press, voltage, and then you have inlet temp, exhaust temp, g force, torque split, injector duty, throttle position, and other features which i cant remember atm. Interior of a Skyline is definitely pretty average, I agree. The wagons are much more stylish, practical and very appealing for sure. :)

Called around today to see if HSV are offering any new deals, but at this stage the dealers have no word yet.


Great writeups, it seems to follow most people's sentiments on these vehicles. I think you'll be able to have the tourer for <60k if you go to the right place and talk to the right people :)

Yes I do so too! Still trying..


Great write up MXFLY. Look forward to reading what you end up getting. I to am dissapointed about the rear tail light set up on the wagons & for that matter the SS utes. I thought they could have at least done a bit more on the Clubsport rear end & as a minimum the SS.

The rear tail lights on my VZ SS look great. Not sure why they couldn't carry through a similar design on the VE utes & wagons???

In saying that I think I'll be getting a SSV wagon in the new year regardless of the rear tail light set up :)

Cheers, Matt

Thanks Matt,

I read somewhere that HSV decided to save $1.5 mil and not touch the tail lights, but if there's a greater demand for the Tourers, they will consider changing it for this year.

cheers,

Euge


MXFLY - do i know you from the 350Z forum?

CLUBRED - he's not from the FFF (AFAIK), quite a frequent poster on the 350Z site (TBC), so i doubt he's here to start sh*t..

Yes that's me :)

[HSV Wagon]

Go the Tourer, no doubt! I bought mine 2000kms ago. Awesome in aesthetics, ride, performance, grin factor, and will stop on a dime every time you ask. I was one of the very few people to own a Senator Signature 220 Estate, which i traded for the Avalanche (which is now my wife's car). The Tourer is a far more sophisticated vehicle. Cars like this should almost require a new standard in driver's licences, this thing is a rocket.
What i love about it: all of the above and so much more. Put the tranny in Sport mode and hit your fav section of corners. Dont need to go manual, the auto "learns" your current driving style and adapts beautifully; if you are heavy on the pedals, the tranny keeps you in the revs by changing down when braking hard, so its ready for the power down on exit never dropping below 3000 revs.
And yet i can still drive my family in peace and harmony just like any other family car.
Pure pleasure.
I got mine for 64k drive away with the hot 20" wheels.
Buy the Tourer, you will not regret it.

[frostywinter]

Hi Guys

I ordered my Tourer today, cant wait to get it.

After a few tests drives of auto and man HSV LS3's I decieded I didnt like the feel of the auto so went for a manual. I got the only brand new manual in stock anywhere in Aust but it has to come all the way down from far nth QLD to Melb which they tell me will take 15 working days!!

It is Heron White, Leather, 20" wheels - would have preferred the red but the white does look very cool also - some nice dark window tint should set if off nicely.

Will post some pics once it arrive's, cant wait..

Frosty

[Carby650]

Well done on the purchase..
remember white is the new black !!

cheers
Carby650

[Uwish]

YES 22k is worth it!!!
Better car alround when talking HSV over SSV!!