alloytec's why not

[vz300]

Ok guys so I have an alloytec and although this is a ls1, genx and so on forum my question is still valid and an honest answer is appreciated.......

My question is why arn't more performance shops and forum board sponsors playing with the alloytec...... I'm led to believe they have 6 bolt mains forged pistons and love to rev so why is it so hard to build a turbo kit a twin turbo kit or even an in the valley supercharger kit........

I know there is a bolt on supercharger kit but I am not a fan, an after thought is what they look like and that's just my opinion.......

I rang three forum sponsors and a full tune for 15rwkw is $900 hardly worth it and no one I contacted can supply a mail order unless someone I did not try can.......

These are an ultra modern engine and with the road laws changing, there will be a lot more young guys wanting to do the mods i speak of..... Surely it cant be that hard.........

[hazrd8]

i have worked with a couple of these and im not a fan i did have one that i put vapour injection lpg on and after pacemaker exhaust and dyno tuning the lpg it gained 18rwhp. i changed a thermostat on one the other day. What the hell were they thinking putting it where they did.

[RyanIAm]

Think you will find it is demand. People don't buy 6's for performance, if they wanted to mod the majority will pony up the extra coin for an 8.

[vz300]

Think you will find it is demand. People don't buy 6's for performance, if they wanted to mod the majority will pony up the extra coin for an 8.

What do you buy an f6 TORNADO or TYPHOON for then if your not buying for performance....... If they can do it why cant we........... Believe me it was never about the money, I have had plenty of 8's just thought it would be cool to do something with a quad cam alloy v6.....

[R8CHEV]

Ill take a stab and say maybe its because of lack of demand for it??
Even though with the laws changing most young p platers who can even afford to buy a car this yound would prob not have enough money to mod it as well.... espicially seeing its costs more to gain less.... and at the other end of the market the people who do have the money for performance upgrades would obviously pick an 8 in the first place...
So the only market for modding commodore 6's is really the P plater population that has money to burn or a few entusiasts that started with a 6....

Maybe Im wrong?

Cheers Brett

EDIT damn U beat me to it and posted that whilst I was typing mine lol

[vz300]

Well I will tell you something thats fact, there is plenty and I mean plenty of yanks that have the money to burn and want high performance mods for there hfv6, the thing thats stopping them is the lack of being able to tune them........

[R8CHEV]

What do you buy an f6 TORNADO or TYPHOON for then if your not buying for performance....... If they can do it why cant we........... Believe me it was never about the money, I have had plenty of 8's just thought it would be cool to do something with a quad cam alloy v6.....



and did you just compare a typhoon to an alloytech????? no no no its all wrong

[wyldnyt]

What do you buy an f6 TORNADO or TYPHOON for then if your not buying for performance....... If they can do it why cant we........... Believe me it was never about the money, I have had plenty of 8's just thought it would be cool to do something with a quad cam alloy v6.....

How can you compare the typhoon to a puss box alloytec??

[Resetar]

Someone must no someone that can do this need to contact holden the concept torana has this
280kW 3.6 litre twin turbo Alloytec V6 engine one built same motor with twin turbo
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/conceptcarspecs?modelid=20004

[CLUBRED]

The torana concept engine has been covered recently.

Obviously there's more business sense for Holden to bung in a reasonably uncomplicated V8 than a reasonably complicated twin turbo sixer (which would require PULP).

I'm getting my auto looked at soon to see if it can be tuned to my liking, perhaps a diff and mild intake improvements. Not interested in much else unless its quiet which most mods aren't...

[R8CHEV]

wasnt that the engine that had overheating problems..... maybe that was something else.. I havnt read up about it....

[monaro327]

theres plenty out there if yu look mate.

BTA and Russo both have OTR's pacemaker have extractors. raptor and capa both have supercharger kits.

Proflow is developing a turbo kit they say should be ready for sale around MAY. they expect 440rwhp from the high output motor i believe.

don't discount the tune either its very worth it just to remove all the throttle limiting and the flyby wire management. you might only gain 15kw but from what i've seen of CHE tunes you gain around 70nm of torque across the rev range.

CHE have aftermarket intake manifolds and cam packages.

[macca_779]

As a 6 cylinder it is the worst in class and getting worse with the recent power reduction and still can't match the competition for fuel economy either. As a Holden its way behind the V8 for OEM Power and aftermarket potential. One must ask themselves.. If you want Performance, why the hell did you buy it when the other options would have been a smarter investment. You want a Performance Holden, you buy an L98. You want a Performance 6, you buy a Falcon. Shit loads of aftermarket support for those things.

Probably think I'm being a bit harsh on the Alloyanchor. But my opinion is and always has been that it is not a good enough engine in this era considering what else is out there. The VE is a good car (bit ugly but good none the less) and pretty close to the overall quality of the competition. Just a pitty the 6 cylinder engine is a generation behind everyone else. Hell even the Taxi drivers don't want them

[Scommo]

Yep my alloytec is rough as nails, sounds shyte and drinks more than a usual 6.

Whats it good for? well i think the number "6" is better aesthetically looking than that of the number "8".

[macca_779]

Yep my alloytec is rough as nails, sounds shyte and drinks more than a usual 6.

Whats it good for? well i think the number "6" is better aesthetically looking than that of the number than "8".

I admire your comments. Good to see at least one V6 owner on here that isn't deluded.
I disagree on your quote though. Literally an 8 on its side is INFINITEly better looking. :soap:

That quote is literal and therefore cannot be upended by one that is not.. So HA.:jester:

[pelagonia_ss]

I would love to see someone Twin Turbo an alloytec V6..

[Scommo]

I disagree. Literally an 8 on its side is INFINITEly better looking. :soap:

That quote is literal and therefore cannot be upended by one that is not.. So HA.

Yes that is true but you can turn a 6 upside down which appears to be a 9, thus being higher than the number 8, but once again flip it, BACK to the original 6.

Its tricky stuff, other alloytec owners will understand.

[macca_779]

Yes that is true but you can turn a 6 upside down which appears to be a 9, thus being higher than the number 8, but once again flip it, BACK to the original 6.

Its tricky stuff, other alloytec owners will understand.

Ahh Touché.

But if you turn your engine upside down a V9 it is not.

[SSBarney]

Hmmm i've bought a rattly alloy 6cyl and want it to go and sound like an 8.

FFS buy one in the first place.:confused:

[VZMY06SS]

Holdens performance vehicles contain v8's, not n/a 6's. I believe that there is a reason for this. Possibly the same reason that most 6cyl dyno charts are shown in hp instead of kw's...

[VZ_V8]

Hmmm i've bought a rattly alloy 6cyl and want it to go and sound like an 8.

FFS buy one in the first place.:confused:

pretty sure the OP has 4 v8 utes and thats not what he is saying at all. :rolleyes:

[SSBarney]

pretty sure the OP has 4 v8 utes and thats not what he is saying at all. :rolleyes:

As mentioned by others above and by the tuning shops the OP contacted, the holden 6 is not worth playing with, as per my post. Doesnt matter if he's got 50 V8 utes, the 6 isnt going to go faster unless they are used for towing it.

[COSMOS]

I went through this myself recently. Contacted a number of forum sponsors and members who I trust and who would tell me if there was something available.

The options I canvassed included a 3.7 diff, tune (engine only, no 5sp tune available yet) headers, CAI, exhaust etc etc.

For the cost it simply wasnt worth it - big $$$ for small gains which would still not be as good as the V8/. I wasnt out to race mine down a 1/4 mile, just improve driveability.

Tune shops have been working on a solution but that could be up to a year away. I sold mine and bought an 8 instead. Now for about 1000 bucks I will get a custom tune and CAI and be stoked with the result.

Should have done it first but there you go.

[theVman]

I think it comes down to the fact that the LS series of motors are so easy to get the power out of - in the case of Holden why bother with the 6 when the 8 has so much more potential.

In Fords case the 6 has the most potential bang for your buck - its quite easy to get extra power out while with the 8's you need to pump more $$ in.

I agree it would be nice to have more power ups for the alloytec but at the end of the day its only going to make it a bit quicker than a stock LS motor. I would imagine its a bit more intense as well.

[ADAM 26]

I Drove My Little Bros Vz Wagon Yesterday, Its Go Tan Alloytec, I Realy Dont Think There That Bad, It Seems Smooth And Quiet Enough, Doesnt Use That Much Fuel.

Dont Get Me Wrong It Isnt A Speed Demon, And A Tune And Intake Would Improve The Driveability As Its Seems Doughy In The Mid Range. Much The Same As The Ls1.

[duke5700]

Holy Caps Lock Batman :) simple, the whole reason there is not a whole lot aftermarket gear out there is the fact that time and effort and money invested to develop and market a product will reap no rewards. It took along time for FIT over in WA to do anything about the L67 which is a rather uncomplicated motor.

[robbaggs920]

kind of odd hey how some (not many) take to sh*t canning the holden six similar to how they would a ford. i got an alloytec ive had a work car (BA XT) and they to are opposites, ford goes until about 3grand then feels like its tiring out. the holden feels lazy until 3 grand then goes (which after a tune is sweet). to me its a blonde or a brunette, between the holden & Ford 6's & (flamsuit on!) 8's

[vz300]

kind of odd hey how some (not many) take to sh*t canning the holden six similar to how they would a ford. i got an alloytec ive had a work car (BA XT) and they to are opposites, ford goes until about 3grand then feels like its tiring out. the holden feels lazy until 3 grand then goes (which after a tune is sweet). to me its a blonde or a brunette, between the holden & Ford 6's & (flamsuit on!) 8's


19 Years old and maybe the most common sense opinion out of the lot....... I did expect the response I have gotten from you true die hard one eyed ls1 nuts, and to be honest never expected to much more than "if you want power buy a v8" wow must have taken some thought to come up with that...... I have four v8's sitting in my shed all with the appropriate mods for power, very very easy and not to bad on the pocket.......

It was a simple question as I would like to experiment or test the grounds of the alloytec, and for some of you to say there not a modern engine or there dated compared to fords six, well go back to tec and learn about engines because they are far from any of that and thats proven for the lack of mods and know how to extract power from them.....

I would bet my left nut if this engine was developed in Japan, HKS and the likes would have cams tunes forced induction kits and what ever else was neeeded to get power from these engines......

It will take someone with a bit of patience and a bit more intelligence then the average to show just what these things are capable of...... If FORD can do it with 2 cams and a turbo why cant HOLDEN do it with four and a turbo.......

[robbaggs920]

vz300.... i hear ya! when im off my P's i want to properly develop my alloytec too.

[Roonstain]

the mods for the alloytec are expensive as everything almost is custom - cams etc are
the tuning software is slow, as people like EFILive are not going to support the Bosch E77 ECU in the VEs, so HPTuners/VCM Suite will have the monopoly there, so it will require more credits to get a license.

and macca - get over coming in every alloytec thread and calling it the alloyanchor! seriously, it is very tedious having to go past the token 'macca alloyanchor' post - we know your feelings about it, so leave it there!


with the VE alloytec getting FI, piggy back tuning will have to be done, as the Bosch E77 ECU doesn't support 2bar tuning

but i think it would be good to see the cams get cheaper, as they would be a definite option for quite a few people

people have not yet seen the potential of this engine over here as not many have given it any repect nor has much effort been put into R&D - but patience must prevail, as I hope time will bring out a few more options for us

now, we are not deluding ourselves that we are going to get LSX kinds of torque and power figures - but don't just spit on the alloytec just because it has 6 cylinders - it is a very strong motor physically, and represents a big step forward in technology from the Ecotec

[robbaggs920]

thats right Roonstain. i think the allotec is a great motor and if you look at it this way:

6.3L R8 stock 317kw = 50.32kw per Litre
3.6L Alloytec 190kw = 52.78kw per Litre

Alloytec doin good things with what its got.

[SHANESVZSS]

id love to see a twin turbo sv6 or something like that , results , power , reliability ect..surely theres one out there somewhere!!

[Scommo]

But it is fact Roonstain, the alloytec suits well to an anchor particulaly a 40ft yot. :bawl:

[old holden V8]

the mods for the alloytec are expensive as everything almost is custom - cams etc are
the tuning software is slow, as people like EFILive are not going to support the Bosch E77 ECU in the VEs, so HPTuners/VCM Suite will have the monopoly there, so it will require more credits to get a license.

and macca - get over coming in every alloytec thread and calling it the alloyanchor! seriously, it is very tedious having to go past the token 'macca alloyanchor' post - we know your feelings about it, so leave it there!


with the VE alloytec getting FI, piggy back tuning will have to be done, as the Bosch E77 ECU doesn't support 2bar tuning

but i think it would be good to see the cams get cheaper, as they would be a definite option for quite a few people

people have not yet seen the potential of this engine over here as not many have given it any repect nor has much effort been put into R&D - but patience must prevail, as I hope time will bring out a few more options for us

now, we are not deluding ourselves that we are going to get LSX kinds of torque and power figures - but don't just spit on the alloytec just because it has 6 cylinders - it is a very strong motor physically, and represents a big step forward in technology from the Ecotec

Well said!

Some of us on here for different reasons, are driving the V6 Alloytec. I think what the O.P was asking was, given the complex nature of the Alloytec, why wasn't there more power enhancements available.

I can only summize that, there is not much of a market for them. The LSx series however is completely different - I'd say the majority are sold to car performance 'nuts' whereas the V6's are bread and butter.

But who knows what GM Holden have planned? D.I? F.I? I'd reckon as fuel prices soar again, and the above mentioned performance 'nuts' will look to get their fix from a (more) fuel efficient means, and this may change/shake up the market. Just look at the amount of "I am selling my SS because fuel has gone through the roof" threads, on here..

At the moment from a marketing perspective GM Holden have a performance product (V8) and a cheaper non-performance product (V6).

Why change? the V8's are selling pretty well aren't they ?

Cheers

Laurie.
:)

[vz300]

But it is fact Roonstain, the alloytec suits well to an anchor particulaly a 40ft yot. :bawl:

I noticed your reason for editing your post and you still could not spell (yacht) right "yot" go back to school you T O O L!!!!

Unless you have not got something intelligent to say, then don't say it.......

[Scommo]

All that for me? thanks vz300, its nice to people do care about me:)

[Goatie]

so can the vz 175 alloytecs be run 2bar maf or mafless?

[mickeyVX350]

185,000 Kms on my CX6 Addy (190KW) and it is tight as a drum.

It is no powerhouse, but I am getting more miles out of a tank of juice, and it'll rattle up over 200Km/h easily.

I find the economy not as good as it should be based on the Power vs Weight equation, but the 450K per fill from the LS1 in the Addy, and the 4 Spd auto were deterrents for me. I am pulling over 600 for a tank (from the gauge) with the obvious Holden pre programmed massive reserve (17 odd litres)

If I could find a little more torque to get the 1900KG moving, I am sure it'd improve fuel economy once the mass was moving. I am keen for any tips on achieving this.

as for 'Buy an 8' well i have quite a quick one in the shed...

[Marco]

I Drove My Little Bros Vz Wagon Yesterday, Its Go Tan Alloytec, I Realy Dont Think There That Bad, It Seems Smooth And Quiet Enough, Doesnt Use That Much Fuel.

Dont Get Me Wrong It Isnt A Speed Demon, And A Tune And Intake Would Improve The Driveability As Its Seems Doughy In The Mid Range. Much The Same As The Ls1.

I pretty well agree with these comments - I had two VZ hire cars for a few days a couple of years back (admittedly before I got my SS) and I thought they were fine for the job they were intended to do. I didn't find them to be noisy (do car magazines want every car to be silent?!) and there was more than enough power for normal driving.

I've hired another Commodore for a week in Tassie next week so I'm looking forward to seeing how the engine works in the current car.

[Swordie]

If FORD can do it with 2 cams and a turbo why cant HOLDEN do it with four and a turbo.......


I would think Holden doesn’t do it because:

- from a business perspective it is not worth adding a turbo to the six
- they have a V8 that does the job and well
- GM seem to have allot of depth in there parts bin when it come to performance V8s
- there probably more profit in creating greener and more economical cars

[kpop]

As a 6 cylinder it is the worst in class and getting worse with the recent power reduction and still can't match the competition for fuel economy either. As a Holden its way behind the V8 for OEM Power and aftermarket potential. One must ask themselves.. If you want Performance, why the hell did you buy it when the other options would have been a smarter investment. You want a Performance Holden, you buy an L98. You want a Performance 6, you buy a Falcon. Shit loads of aftermarket support for those things.

Probably think I'm being a bit harsh on the Alloyanchor. But my opinion is and always has been that it is not a good enough engine in this era considering what else is out there. The VE is a good car (bit ugly but good none the less) and pretty close to the overall quality of the competition. Just a pitty the 6 cylinder engine is a generation behind everyone else. Hell even the Taxi drivers don't want them

honda's new 3.5 v6 puts out 205kw, or at least over 200

so for holdens 3.6 v6 to put out 170 or 195 kw, is pretty bad, especially considering all the hype.

[robbaggs920]

Kpop, im not dissin you mate just curious where you got the information from? wouldnt mind reading that meself!

oh and the 6.3L holden puts out 317Kw so i guess that must mean that the 6.0L motors are crap.

also consider that people bang on about the ford six being better than the alloytec when it has a 4.0L engine and its only advantage is torque, which once torque management is removed that advantage is about gone.

[Merlin]

thats right Roonstain. i think the allotec is a great motor and if you look at it this way:

6.3L R8 stock 317kw = 50.32kw per Litre
3.6L Alloytec 190kw = 52.78kw per Litre

Alloytec doin good things with what its got.

Thats not really anything to brag about - your basically proving how much of a boat anchor it is - this supposedly "modern, technological" V6 has just about exactly the same power per litre as a "dinosaur pushrod V8".

By the way - why does the OP keep harping on about 2 cams vs 4 - ones an inline engine, ones a V6 with two banks - no magical "technological" difference there...:confused:

The answer to the OP is that there is no demand for mods for the V6 as the Holden V8 is so damn good with so much potential - but plenty of people have mentioned that already.....it seems only the 19-22 year olds think the V6 is worth pouring money into (which when i was that age I would probably say silly things like that too :))

[duke5700]

It is a simple equation as outline in my earlier post why no one develops aftermarket enhancements. For all you knobs still carrying on about it, it seriously is this simple. There is no financial gain to be had by developing parts enhancements. Businesses will not, put the hard yards into developing a product if it is not financially viable. About 3 people in the history of the Alloytech have wanted to seriously modify it. Out of those three people two where dreamers and the other was prepared to spend the hard earned on custom parts.

I'm sure they are a great motor, and could do some marvelous things. Remember they have a brand image as the bog stock boring people movers engine where as the V8 is the performance choice. Any car that has decent aftermarket support has or was a performance vehicle from factory. XR6T... marketed as a performance car by Ford, LSX style engine was what motivated the performance cars in the Holdens, RB30T was the performance choice in VL's. The Holden 5.0L enjoyed many a year as the flagship performance engine.

If the Alloytech came out as a hot engine in a lighter car, or in boosted form. It would take all of about 3 secs for the aftermarket industry to jump on them and make them go faster. The people that would be buying them would make up the type of person wanting to modify there cars therefore the market is there to develop parts.

Until this happens, be happy with basic modifications like, exhaust, intake and tune as this is all that is likely to be widespread and affordable. If you have cash to burn anything is possible. Stop sooking about it.

[robbaggs920]

in which case we are back to the age old question of why dont holden bring out a T6? as there would be plenty of market for (IMO) XR6T's are infecting garages like the plague. why? because they are better than a ford v8, a few go as far as to say even faster than a holden v8. there is an economic downturn in MV purchases at the moment, holden is struggling, but a customer (from a marketing purspective) if you can win their allegence with your product is worth heaps. for example XR6T owners, on average 40k per car and they may get a new car every 5 years for the next 20-30 years, makes em worth 160-240k to ford, thats per customer. with ford having a controlling share in that market (largely due to their rival holden not havin a bar of it) thats safe money. meanwhile holden is in fierce competition with all these other competitors including ford. i dunno i just cant grasp why they dont at least trial it for a year.

[R8CHEV]

yeah I think this thread got out of hand pretty quick....
The OP only asked WHY there were no mods available for performance is the six.. then everyone turned around and said because theres no market and peopel who want the the performance.. will buy the * because is finacially A far better option...
Then afterwards poeple have trurned around and said get off ya high horse sixes are awesome v8s arnt gods.... wtf???? youa sked the question and you got the answer... no need to critisise us for explaining why...

Brett

[duke5700]

They have a performance car engine all ready.... All the development work has been done. All they have to do is make it fit.

It all comes down to the fact that Holden do not need to overcrowd there products with another sports car, which A) they have to develop and design on there own feet as no one else will put the money in B) Have a limited market for C) Will cost more to produce reducing there profit margins, even if you do sell it at the same price as the SS.

Ok so you may sway a certain number of Ford owners, but you will also sway a number of SS buyers. Its really just not a worthwhile pursuit for Holden in any sense. Maybe and I mean maybe, if they developed a medium/small rear wheel drive platform like the Torana concept where by using a 6cyl turbo mill package would fit in the bay where the LS1 wouldn't I could see it happening. I think the Alloytech is similar in dimensions anyway is it not?

In this financial climate i do not see a new Australian designed turbocharged 6 cyl mill based around the alloytech. In any car. Nor do I see a decent mid sized car coming out of Holden till the worlds pulls out of its doldrums.

[vecommo]

You want a Performance 6, you buy a Falcon.

The Ford N/A 6 is a performance engine??? :rofl::rofl: Time to put the crack pipe down mate.

[FlatfootV8]

Gee this topic is rife with friction burn and its not a burning clutch either.
Instead of bashing the alloytec as I don't know much about the engine myself I prefer a V8 really. Why not actually help the person out with his questions.. I guess its too much to ask for any help these days...

[R8CHEV]

Instead of bashing the alloytec as I don't know much about the engine myself I prefer a V8 really. Why not actually help the person out with his questions.. I guess its too much to ask for any help these days...

If you read the first page. that is what everyone did but then he started rambling on about why the alloytech is so great and so on..... his question was answered but he obviously didnt like it....

[VZMY06SS]

If you want a performance 6, you buy a Falcon

The Ford N/A 6 is a performance engine??? :rofl::rofl: Time to put the crack pipe down mate.

Did this comment contribute to this discussion in any way at all??
Clearly macca is refering to the turbo'd 6's, not the N/A 6.:goodjob:

The reasons that it is hard to get performance parts etc for an alloytec have been well covered I believe. The gains are expensive per kw, due to a lack of demand, and even by throwing a lot of money into the engine, you are still probably only going to end up with an engine that will perhaps barely outperform a current stock v8. This is what the OP was about, so stop trying to argue it. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the topic of v6 power mods may be better covered on the streetcommodore forum.

Regards

Steve

[R8CHEV]

Did this comment contribute to this discussion in any way at all??
Clearly macca is refering to the turbo'd 6's, not the N/A 6.:goodjob:

The reasons that it is hard to get performance parts etc for an alloytec have been well covered I believe. The gains are expensive per kw, due to a lack of demand, and even by throwing a lot of money into the engine, you are still probably only going to end up with an engine that will perhaps barely outperform a current stock v8. This is what the OP was about, so stop trying to argue it. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the topic of v6 power mods may be better covered on the streetcommodore forum.

Regards

Steve


Agree 100%

[SS Enforcer]

It's supply and demand amd I bet if Street tuna got 10 calls a day enquiring about twin turbos for a Alloytech there would be a TT kit floating around. As it is it would be too hard to modify a ls1 tt kit to fit one.

Blower kit for a V6 alloytech
http://www.capa.com.au/kits_holden_vzv6.htm

cheers

[macca_779]

I'll call the V6 an ALLOYANCHOR as much as I like thank you. If you don't like it go find a forum that is not V8 based so you can all hug each other and not expect any flack for you chosen mode of transport. If I came to an ALLOYANCHOR Forum and guys were bagging the ECO V6 I would expect the same thing. Its their playground after all and this is a V8 one. Same goes for Ford guys coming here. They don't expect their views to be fully embraced either. The crap slagging comes with the territory.

[BLACK 346]

I'll call the V6 an ALLOYANCHOR as much as I like thank you. If you don't like it go find a forum that is not V8 based so you can all hug each other and not expect any flack for you chosen mode of transport. If I came to an ALLOYANCHOR Forum and guys were bagging the ECO V6 I would expect the same thing. Its their playground after all and this is a V8 one. Same goes for Ford guys coming here. They don't expect their views to be fully embraced either. The crap slagging comes with the territory.

Wrong, this forum is an LS1 and HOLDEN Forum, not LS1 and Holden V8.

[vz300]

I'll call the V6 an ALLOYANCHOR as much as I like thank you. If you don't like it go find a forum that is not V8 based so you can all hug each other and not expect any flack for you chosen mode of transport. If I came to an ALLOYANCHOR Forum and guys were bagging the ECO V6 I would expect the same thing. Its their playground after all and this is a V8 one. Same goes for Ford guys coming here. They don't expect their views to be fully embraced either. The crap slagging comes with the territory.

Mate grow up, no need to get abusive and so on...... You turned this thread bad with your first post...... A simple answer was all I was after and that has now in a round about way been answered....... Yes this is ls1.com.au but in the bigger scheme of things it is a true holden forum covering just about everything....... Stop being so one eyed, I'll bet over half the v8 owners on here have a v6 or the likes sitting in the shed, and have thought at one point "yeah a bit more power would be good for a laugh"...... This forum is for everyone 4, 6 and 8 cylinders and whatever else someone wants to post a question about.......

Your the type of person the scares off the average jo from asking his question........:flipoff:

[macca_779]

I haven't been abusive at all.. I'm sharing an opinion on a PUBLIC FORUM and am abiding by the forum rules. Yep this Forum is for everyone but it is made up by a majority of V8 members.. I don't see Holden written in the URL after all.
Are there any alloytech specific DIY's.. Nope.
Do sponsors come here that exclusively deal with the alloytech alone.. Nope.
Has a News article ever been published about any model that does not have a V8.. Nope
Does the car picture above with SS V on the front have a V6 option.. Nope

Hell I could be way off base here but if I had another Holden without an LS1. I honestly wouldn't expect much from this forum for technical support. In fact before I bought an LS1 I wasn't even a member, but I certainly was on most other Generic Holden Forums.

Like going to a Lesbo Bar, Gay Bar, Native Australian Bar.. Sure you can go in chat with people and drink piss. But is it really the place for a straight white guy? Will the people tell you your not welcome? Will they embrace your views? You reckon you'll be able to pull a Root (or want to)?

[Roonstain]

this forum has many members not as close minded as you macca - the knowledge of some of the members on here is invaluable, and even if the member him/herself does not know the exact answer about the alloytec, people on here may well be able to steer an alloytec owner in the right direction

would i own a V8 if it was legal for me to drive?? HELL YES, but with the current NSW Provisional Licence Vehicle Restrictions, V8s are not an option for me - so still being a holden fan, i buy an omega, which has an alloytec
i still supported the company, and have not broken the law for driving a V8

I plan on buying a V8 when I legally can drive it, but whilst I have to have a V6, why not see what can be done?

A fair few people my age are new to the car scene, and trying to learn things like how to deal with workshops, general mechanical stuff, and even DIYs like a catch can install and then onwards to performance mods

I may well keep my alloytec when i buy my V8, as it is something different, and the learning curve is steep with the mods, but learning new things isn't a bad thing!!!!

Why don't you just either provide an answer like "CHE, BTA, Russo's etc have all done work with alloytecs, and provide the following options....." as this actually may point the OP to getting some more concrete answers - he wasn't inquiring whether the alloytec is a good engine or not!


At the end of the day, if anyone wants to do modifications to an alloytec, speak to someone like CHE, Russo's, Pro Flow and Raptor (depending on whether VZ or VE) as they all offer different options (still limited, but slowly growing).

If anyone has any questions about basic bolt ons for the alloytec from a consumers POV, don't hesitate to flick me a PM, as i have had 2 OTR setups (more than other VE Alloytec owners), headers, different muffler setups, engine and tranny tune and even a catch can (yes they do breathe a little heavy sometimes!) - I can tell you some of the better 'bang for your buck' mods that i had done


sorry for a little rant, but we shouldn't be ostracised for not owning a V8 (even when we want to!)

Cheers
Mark

[macca_779]

I've never told a V6 owner they are not welcome here. Why would I? Its not my forum. But it is a V8 forum first and a Holden Forum second. Whether or not Siddy meant that to be the case when he made it doesn't matter because thats how it is. If you wish to take an interest that's great and yeah there is plenty of info on here that is common to the models in general. My only rant is that this is predominantly a V8 Forum and because of that a V6 will not be supported here anywhere near as much. Also you should not be surprised when you get flamed because its not a V8. You just have to deal with that.

[Roonstain]

OK mate, so it doesn't have the same support as the LSx motors - but if you don't have information that is pertinent to the discussion, why offer it?

Your posts have not contained any assistance to finding a workshop or even offered any other helpful info for the OP

I understand that this is a forum frequented by a predominantely V8 owner demographic, so info that is alloytec related may be hard to get, but it is still worth trying on a forum with so many good sponsors and a large member base - and one should be able to ask such questions without having certain individuals decide their car/motor is sh!t and that it is not worth doing anything with it! Let the OP get all the info available from different shops/suppliers etc first, and they can decide whether it is worth the $$$ or not!

[HSVGTS215i]

OT a little but handy info nonetheless, alloytecs are very bad for sludging. Weve had quite a lot of lease vehicles which have 15k service intervals with blocked filters and some so badly sludged up they had to have a complete engine rebuild. If you want your engine to last stick to 7.5k oil and filter changes.

Cheers.

[Carby]

I find this thread a little amusing the VE SV6 V6 is the best 6 cylinder Holden motor I've owned. It is very smooth, likes a rev, is 2 litres per 100km more economical than the V8 it's only problem is the raucous noise it makes under acceleration - it does sound very ordinary.

For every day city driving the SV6 is better than the GTS - the GTS feels much heavier - the SV6 is a delight to throw around and the gearshift (not great mind you) is still better than the T56.

I'm surprised there does not appear to be much after market stuff for them either - I reckon a TT would be very nice.

[Goatie]

so can the vz 175 alloytecs be run 2bar maf or mafless?

bump :lol:

easy to get lost in the spam :rofl:

[Roonstain]

bump :lol:

easy to get lost in the spam :rofl:
mafless isnt supported yet to the best of my knowledge
cant help with the 2bar though - i know VE's dont, but I am not up to date with the VZ's

[tanka5.7]

just takin a stab in the dark but if you have a manual alloytec wouldnt it be as simple as changing the ecu to something thats tuneable? eg haltec - i mean even with an older style operating sytem it still goin to be more tuneable and yeild results.

[old holden V8]

OT a little but handy info nonetheless, alloytecs are very bad for sludging. Weve had quite a lot of lease vehicles which have 15k service intervals with blocked filters and some so badly sludged up they had to have a complete engine rebuild. If you want your engine to last stick to 7.5k oil and filter changes.

Cheers.


Yes, told that very same thing when I purchased mine, always have done a 7500km oil/filter change. Were the lease vehicles predominantly running inner-city short runs? ie. oil does not get up to temp?

Mighty small oil filter on them isn't there?

Cheers

:)

[DaveHAT]

Mighty small oil filter on them isn't there?

Cheers

:)

Agree with that.

I was amazed when I serviced my Dad's VZ Tonner and found that the oil filter was at the TOP of the engine and was a pissy little paper insert filter.

:confused: :shock:

I think I might have to give him a RAZ about doing oil changes more frequently.

Re: Macca's apparent Alloytec hatred ... did the cammed Senator get hosed by an alloytec V6?

:nyuk: :jester:

[macca_779]

Re: Macca's apparent Alloytec hatred ... did the cammed Senator get hosed by an alloytec V6?

:nyuk: :jester:

Yeah Dave you got me. Every day of the week my Boss puts me to bed with his SV6. My old 5L didn't have a problem disposing of Alloyanchores, yet my LS1 with double the power just can't do it. :confused: Perhaps I should take off two leads, then I might have a chance.

[kpop]

Kpop, im not dissin you mate just curious where you got the information from? wouldnt mind reading that meself!

oh and the 6.3L holden puts out 317Kw so i guess that must mean that the 6.0L motors are crap.



its on the official honda website, and any other advertisment they have :)

http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Accord/Specifications/

Honda V6:

SOHC i-VTEC
V-Shape
6 cylinder

202kW @ 6200rpm

339Nm @ 5000rpm

-------------------------

and the alloytec isnt all that bad, its main problem is its diff ratio, which is the worst decision holden could have made. 2.89 is ridiculous. put a 3.45 diff in there, and its a completely different car :)

ive said it heaps of times on this forum, but once more wont hurt :D

my alloytec ups and boogies, with a best 0 - 100 time of 6.3 seconds

[vecommo]

Did this comment contribute to this discussion in any way at all??
Clearly macca is refering to the turbo'd 6's, not the N/A 6.:goodjob:

How is comparing a 6 cylinder turbocharged engine to a 6 cylinder naturally aspirated engine in any way fair? Compare appples to apples.


Mate grow up, no need to get abusive and so on...... You turned this thread bad with your first post...... A simple answer was all I was after and that has now in a round about way been answered....... Yes this is ls1.com.au but in the bigger scheme of things it is a true holden forum covering just about everything....... Stop being so one eyed, I'll bet over half the v8 owners on here have a v6 or the likes sitting in the shed, and have thought at one point "yeah a bit more power would be good for a laugh"...... This forum is for everyone 4, 6 and 8 cylinders and whatever else someone wants to post a question about.......

Your the type of person the scares off the average jo from asking his question........:flipoff:


I wouldn't take any notice whatsoever of macca_779's nonsensical, childish ramblings.
The alloytec is a fine engine and serves it's intended purpose well. It is a 6 cylinder engine designed to power a four door family sedan, not a high end performance car. Why some people cannot comprehend this is beyond me.
From my experiences, the alloytec is smooth, economical, reliable, produces a decent amount of power and is light years ahead of its predecessors, the ecotec and buick V6's.
While it is nice to have a V8, there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning a V6. The V6 provides more than enough power for the average driver in daily use... maybe it is enough for some people??... maybe it's all some people can afford??? If the V6 is lacking in power then geez, how do all those people who drive 4 cylinder cars survive?

While yes, this is predominantly a V8 forum, its title states "Australian LS1 AND HOLDEN Forum." To me that means anything from a Barina to a Grange can be discussed here. Futhermore, this thread is posted in the 'General Automotive' section, not an LS1 specific section.
All Holden owners are welcome here, not just V8 owners, and those who do not own a V8 should not be made to feel unwelcome or any lesser members.
Macca_779, we are all well aware of your opinions of the V6, so if you have nothing constructive to add then I suggest you stick to doing your dodgy backyard tunes in your back shed and leave your childish comments out of these threads.

[CLUBRED]

Wrong, this forum is an LS1 and HOLDEN Forum, not LS1 and Holden V8.

+ A motorbike subforum....

[macca_779]

:rofl: God I would love to meet you one day vecommo to see if you are like this in the flesh. What you just wrote is pretty much what I have said about everyone being welcome and the V6 not being a performance engine. I share an opinion and you go all personal knocking my tuning ability.. Have a look around mate and you will see a few cars that I have fixed dodgy tunes done by reputable shops. One only a few weeks ago in Melbourne. Get your facts right before you start spinning shit about people would you.

[R8CHEV]

Are you guys seriously still going on? This thread is nothing to do with the orginal post anymore. The question has been answered. I dont think anybody started saying anything about the alloy tyech being a shit motor you others just assumed that we were when all that was being said is that it
ISNT DESIGNED TO BE A PERFORMANCE ENGINE!!!! its the family car engine...end of story....

Macca hasnt really said anything but the truth and you guys are twisting what he says to make him sound like a dick...

Brett

[HSVGTS215i]

re the oil filter size, being a cartridge rather than an enclosed filter it does seem smaller but its probably the same volume as the metal ones...

[CLUBRED]

For the record, mate of mine writes the software for some flash tunes (http://www.motorsportlogic.com.au/default.asp), we'll put my 6 up on the dyno and see what she can do real world (i'm not expecting much, but hell someone's gotta do it just to settle some unanswered Q's). Will post results, but I have to wait until he's finished with is 8 first.

[Scommo]

I still stand by my comments and reckon its a boat anchor, can somebody pick on me? Attention. .

haha, seriously though, 40 yatch, deep waters, you know the drill.

[hazrd8]

i here that the toyota prius drives nice:spew::spew:

[VZMY06SS]

How is comparing a 6 cylinder turbocharged engine to a 6 cylinder naturally aspirated engine in any way fair? Compare appples to apples.

That is actually what I was trying to get across... If you re-read the posts I was refering to, mabye you will understand what I meant. Maybe next time spend a little longer frowning at what you don't understand before you post a response to it...
If people thought before they posted, this thread would be a lot more informative.

Back on topic, I too am considering buying a pirus. I am just waiting til a twin turbo kit is produced as then it will be the perfect car. I'm still not sure why one hasn't been developed yet....

Steve

[FlatfootV8]

The wife has a prius as a company car god most overated pile of shite I have ever driven.
Has to be one of the most overated marketing cons ever developed ever.....

[Holden Nut]

:rofl: God I would love to meet you one day vecommo to see if you are like this in the flesh. What you just wrote is pretty much what I have said about everyone being welcome and the V6 not being a performance engine. I share an opinion and you go all personal knocking my tuning ability.. Have a look around mate and you will see a few cars that I have fixed dodgy tunes done by reputable shops. One only a few weeks ago in Melbourne. Get your facts right before you start spinning shit about people would you.
At the end of the day though...who is to say that it isn't a performance engine (and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing)? Obviously it has nothing on the V8 but that doesn't mean anyone who suggests doing a performance mod to an alloytec should be hung out to dry. Is the S2000 not a performance engine because its not a V8? No. At the end of the day there are p platers or people who get into VE's that cant afford V8's and I'm sure there are other reasons why V8's arent bought. I'm sure you wouldnt appreciate it if you were seeking advice and someone with an LS2 or LS3 said why the **** did you bother with an LS1 VT Senator when a VZ/VE LS2/LS3 is superior.

Have people really got so little to do that they find themselves going into discussions they have no interest or significant contributions to make other than getting under the skin of the people asking the questions? Or being pedantic about the purposes/guidelines of the forum? At the end of the day the insignficant fuel economy differences, the fact that you can find a Japanese car with 5kw more power or the fact that taxi drivers dont have them has about 2 parts of f*** all relevance to the questions being asked. It feels stupid to have to say this, but taxi drivers don't drive around in L98's either and you can find many cars that make more power with less kw, but that doesn't make the L98 sh*t does it?

[pmac]

Has to be one of the most overated marketing cons ever developed ever.....

i agree, had one come home and it looked like sh*t, drove like sh*t and was the most uncomfortable car ive been in. prob drop the value of the house while it was parked at the front. and its sibling the corolla is a very overated car


and can i just add 1 reason why people dont buy v8's over 6ers. INSURANCE
doesnt matter how old you are or how few crashes you had they still rape ur wallet for the two extra cylinders.

[taztassio]

the alloytec has the potential for massive power, being quad cam v6. the valves arent much smaller than an l67 but they have two for in and ex.

THe heads are also cnc and almost polished, as well as a very light and strong bottom end.

My mate worked on them at holden and he wants to TT one, but went l67 instead for aftermarket support on forums and with performance companies.

Something where they do lack in is torque, as they make their power too high up, where as the l67 makes it much lower

[SHANESVZSS]

mate have you tries capa?? im pritty sure they have a some sort of Forced induction kit?? if your going to get work done , TRUST me mate go the russo , they helped me out emensly!

capa do a kit that can puch out around 320kw , its a supercharger / nin inter cooled ..tho you have the option get it intercooled , not sure on prices tho..better off calling them..


hope this helps. cheers

[mitchtj]

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_3062/article.html

see this