View Full Version : How do you sell a car with piston slap?
I won't have to deal with this problem for a couple years yet but I was thinking about it the other day.
If you're selling it privately do you mention it in the advertisement?
Do you make sure the car is cold when someone comes to test drive it and let them discover it or hope they don't notice? At least you've given them the opportunity to hear it.
Do you make sure the car is warm when they test drive it and risk them throwing a brick through your window the next day when they discover it or excercising their right to give the car back within 3 days?
Do you just trade it in and therefore be forced to sell it much cheaper and also have to buy the next car from a dealer? I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy from a dealer again after this one though.
Would anyone buy a car if they new it was a slapper even if I could prove it didn't use any oil which I can't?
I guess I'm wondering how other people have gotten rid of their slappers.
Make sure it's warm and the piston slap isn't noticable.
Once the sale is made - i.e. you have the money and they have the car and you've handed in the notice of disposal and the ownership is changed, they have no 3 day right to give it back!
r8ls1
09-02-2009, 01:00 PM
160 deg thermostat and get it tuned to bring the fans in earlier. worked on my ls1, no more slap . cheap, easy, and your not ripping anyone off. if they wonder about the temp gauge sitting just above 1/4, tell them it has a colder thermostat which works well for climate change. both are bullshit but propoganda works.
theVman
09-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Depends on where your moral lie I guess.
At the end of the day its up to the buyer to check it all out but I wouldnt feel write selling a car knowing its got a terminal problem....
r8ls1
09-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Make sure it's warm and the piston slap isn't noticable.
I found the opposite on my ls1, colder, no slap. full temp with std thermostat and fan settings, slap. maybe some are different, or the noise is caused by more than one problem.
Depends on where your moral lie I guess.
At the end of the day its up to the buyer to check it all out but I wouldnt feel write selling a car knowing its got a terminal problem....
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
diabolic
09-02-2009, 01:45 PM
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
You sound like a real stand-up guy mate..
quinny0410
09-02-2009, 01:53 PM
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
And if you had this car sold too you would you give a shit.Scum you are.
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
I wouldn't consider myself clueless but I took what I believed were all precautionary steps to avoid buying a car like this but unfortunately there are people out there that are happy to be deceptive when selling a car. After 6 months I've finally accepted the problem and moved on. I don't think I'd feel right deceiving someone else into buying the car after the dissapointment I went through. Hence my foreseen predicament.
DaveHAT
09-02-2009, 02:03 PM
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
Sums it all up right there.
Nice. :rolleyes:
Re: piston slap and selling a car ... be upfront and tell the buyer.
Knawful
09-02-2009, 02:07 PM
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
Remind me NOT to buy a car off you. :soap:
The_Plague
09-02-2009, 02:20 PM
i wouldn't give a shit... as long as i can flog it off to some poor clueless bastard!
Beautiful. :flipoff: , it'd also be hilarious if they came back and broke both your legs.
Probably best to tell the buyer beforehand, if its someone who is gonna turf the engine and majority of the driveline then it wont matter to them if they are really only after the body, essentially.
I know it didn't matter with me with the VT because at that point I was intending to turf the engine anyway, didn't end up getting a car with the issue anyway.
Hi Octane
09-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Tell them mate.
You sell the car from your home so they know where you live, Not the smartest thing to do. Anyway each to there own.
If someone KNOWINGLY sold me a heap of shit & decieved me id be really pissed & inclined to do something MORE sneaky & more SINISTER to get even & they wouldnt be able to pin shit on me.
XLR8 V8
09-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Does it use any oil? Piston slap is something that is generally known about as "common" across earlier LS1's. It's really when it's an oil guzzler as well that a buyer would be worried that they'll be up for a rebuild soon.
If it was an LS1 I'd be telling a buyer that "It's got a bit of lifter noise and cold start slap like many LS1's, but it doesn't use any oil and quietens down quickly once warm."
Yours being an LS2 VZ Clubby though would indicate it's something you should get looked at before you consider selling, as the "common" piston slap issue was long gone before then so buyer will be more hesitant
I
ls1vt209
09-02-2009, 02:41 PM
Depends on how often you lie to yourself and everyone else.
Me I would tell them.
Obviously there are plenty of people on here especially CSP who I would never buy a car off.
Tony_Montana78
09-02-2009, 02:45 PM
Firstly, for the record I'm against dodgy selling practices. If I ever sell a car I price it accordingly, and then advertise it as is. I dont list any bad points, however I do welcome any check they want to do, and offer a test drive. Its up to them to have a look at the car and make an offer. My VS I sold last year had a radiator that was on the way out plus a roof lining that needed fixing. We negotiated a price based on those couple of things and the sale was made. I typically fix things that make the car fall off the road as it goes, so at least in my mind the car is roadworthy.
Its a second hand car at the end of the day, so the buyer needs to be aware of that and do their checks.
Just my $0.10!
seldo
09-02-2009, 02:51 PM
Do you just trade it in and therefore be forced to sell it much cheaper and also have to buy the next car from a dealer? I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy from a dealer again after this one though.
Would anyone buy a car if they new it was a slapper even if I could prove it didn't use any oil which I can't?
I guess I'm wondering how other people have gotten rid of their slappers.
The public generally just trade it in to a dealer while the engine's hot and not slapping, and then then it becomes the mongrel dealer who cops the blame for selling a dud....
Why the hell should I care about the condition of a car I'm selling?
I put a sale price on it, someone sees it and decides to buy it. End of story. It's a case of BUYER BEWARE! It's a 2nd hand car and should be checked properly or cheap enough that you don't care if it's going to need some work or a new engine...
People that blame sellers are just whingers. As long as they don't go out of their way to DECEIVE a buyer (certainly something I would never do) then where's the problem with a seller selling any condition car?
And lol at never buying a car from me... All my cars when I get rid of them are a LOT better than average...
Excellent
09-02-2009, 03:20 PM
And lol at never buying a car from me... All my cars when I get rid of them are a LOT better than average...
Is that according to the "poor clueless bastard" or the astute buyer?
Holden Man
09-02-2009, 03:57 PM
.....People that blame sellers are just whingers. As long as they don't go out of their way to DECEIVE a buyer (certainly something I would never do) .............."Make sure it's warm and the piston slap isn't noticable."
:rofl: ever heard of - "what goes around comes around".
I'd let them know of the piston slap (whether it be minor or major), you don't want them coming back to burn your house down because you lied to them.
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Some interesting responses in this thread.
As far as I am concerned it is upto the buyer to do their checks prior to buying. It is not upto the seller to list every single thing that the seller believes is a problem. Is the seller trained to identify every issue?
Has the piston slap been confirmed by a mechanic, or is it "the bloke down the pub says it is piston slap"
FFS, we are talking about second hand cars, not new cars. Do your checks and if you as the buyer deem it a good buy, then buy it. If later on you find a problem that was present at time of sale but you missed it, even though the seller knew about it, then tuff.
you don't want them coming back to burn your house down because you lied to them.
They don't have to come to your house. Give them a different address and be there before they get there. Simple.
diabolic
09-02-2009, 04:22 PM
They don't have to come to your house. Give them a different address and be there before they get there. Simple.
What if it's someone who isn't the almighty expert on cars like yourself? Sux2BeThem ??
Dan
Where did I claim to be an expert on anything? :confused: I'm far from it! Common sense though? Well maybe that's a new concept for some.
Since your grasp on English seems limited, I will assume you meant "Sucks to be them?". To which my answer is no. There are more than a few different pre-purchase vehicle inspection options available to EVERYONE.
WOMBIE
09-02-2009, 04:28 PM
I think if anything at all has come from this thread,it's that no way in hell would you buy a used car from CSP :teach:
Considering I never sell a car that's reached the end of the manufacturer's warranty, there's nothing wrong with my cars. In fact my cars a better looked after than the majority and are lucky if they've even done 10,000km a year!
I was just trying to help the OP out. Look out for yourself in life above all! Everything I've said is pretty much just common sense whether to look at it from the POV of the buyer or the seller. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand or is just plain naive.
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 04:36 PM
I think if anything at all has come from this thread,it's that no way in hell would you buy a used car from CSP :teach:
Actually what has been confirmed in this thread is the fact that people expect someone else (ie the seller) to take responsability for their own purchasing decision.
To reiterate, the seller is under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to tell prospective purchasers about every item, good or bad, about their car.
There is a moral obligation to tell the truth, but that is it. If the buyer is stupid enough not to have a car checked out prior to purchase then to bad too sad.
SVNLTR
09-02-2009, 05:00 PM
Why the hell should I care about the condition of a car I'm selling?
I put a sale price on it, someone sees it and decides to buy it. End of story. It's a case of BUYER BEWARE! It's a 2nd hand car and should be checked properly or cheap enough that you don't care if it's going to need some work or a new engine...
People that blame sellers are just whingers. As long as they don't go out of their way to DECEIVE a buyer (certainly something I would never do) then where's the problem with a seller selling any condition car?
And lol at never buying a car from me... All my cars when I get rid of them are a LOT better than average...
fair enough but your duty of care-?
you would not sell a car with bad brakes? same thing with a bad engine-
WOMBIE
09-02-2009, 05:07 PM
Actually what has been confirmed in this thread is the fact that people expect someone else (ie the seller) to take responsability for their own purchasing decision.
To reiterate, the seller is under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to tell prospective purchasers about every item, good or bad, about their car.
There is a moral obligation to tell the truth, but that is it. If the buyer is stupid enough not to have a car checked out prior to purchase then to bad too sad.
Hmmmmmmmm........just remember that payback can be a bitch ;)
Dover
09-02-2009, 05:17 PM
Holden sold them new from the factory like that, i cant remember the sales man telling me.
Ben
SVNLTR
09-02-2009, 05:26 PM
Holden sold them new from the factory like that, i cant remember the sales man telling me.
Ben
but did they repair it ?
planetdavo
09-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Holden sold them new from the factory like that, i cant remember the sales man telling me.
Ben
Of course, the seller of the used car will also provide a 3 year/100,000 warranty for an engine rebuild, just like Holden did when new...:lmao:
diabolic
09-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Of course, the seller of the used car will also provide a 3 year/100,000 warranty for an engine rebuild, just like Holden did when new...:lmao:
:rofl: if ($post =~ /Holden/i) cue('planetdavo');
... Dan
planetdavo
09-02-2009, 05:43 PM
:rofl: if ($post =~ /Holden/i) cue('planetdavo');
... Dan
LS1 forum + anything at all to do with a Holden= cue fishing lines cos Davo's blinded "again"...::lmao:
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 06:11 PM
fair enough but your duty of care-?
you would not sell a car with bad brakes? same thing with a bad engine-
duty of care what duty of care. Care to explain where a private seller has a duty of care to tell a prospective buyer everything?
hazrd8
09-02-2009, 06:13 PM
i tell everyone that comes in and wants to buy one to inspect the car cold first thing before it gets any engine temp up and listen carefully.
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 06:15 PM
Hmmmmmmmm........just remember that payback can be a bitch ;)
lol, payback? what payback. If I purchase a second hand car (or anything actually) and don't check it out fully prior to purchase then I have no one to blame but myself. However, I won't be bitching and complaining about a seller not telling me everything about a car (or whatever) prior to a purchase.
Time to take responsability for your own purchasing decisions rather than put the blame on someone else.
KCB50L
09-02-2009, 06:15 PM
So everyone here would spend big money on fixing problems on there cars so they can sell them, that in it's self is a clueless act. I'm with CSP here, **** it, if the car didn't have a problem would you be inclined to sell it in the first place. BUYERS BEWARE, if YOU buy a car privately and it has problems cause YOU didn't look it over or let someone that has a clue look over then too bad, so sad, YOU are stuck with a shitbox cause YOU didn't get it checked. The seller only has an obligation to tell the customer if it's been written off, that's it.
Good luck in selling your car dude, don't spend money you don't have to.
Dover
09-02-2009, 06:49 PM
but did they repair it ?
No they said noise is there but within tolorances. Not sure how they measure the tolorance? by ear?
Excellent
09-02-2009, 06:55 PM
So everyone here would spend big money on fixing problems on there cars so they can sell them, that in it's self is a clueless act. I'm with CSP here, **** it, if the car didn't have a problem would you be inclined to sell it in the first place. BUYERS BEWARE, if YOU buy a car privately and it has problems cause YOU didn't look it over or let someone that has a clue look over then too bad, so sad, YOU are stuck with a shitbox cause YOU didn't get it checked. The seller only has an obligation to tell the customer if it's been written off, that's it.
Good luck in selling your car dude, don't spend money you don't have to.
But if you bought the car that way, it might be harder to on sell.
Most of them Holden were prepared to repair/rebuild so it would have been in the original owner's best interest to get the problem fixed. Imagine how many customers would now steer clear of the LS1 if Holden weren't prepared to fix the issues. The LS1s would almost be worthless on the used car market.
lol, payback? what payback. If I purchase a second hand car (or anything actually) and don't check it out fully prior to purchase then I have no one to blame but myself. However, I won't be bitching and complaining about a seller not telling me everything about a car (or whatever) prior to a purchase.
Time to take responsability for your own purchasing decisions rather than put the blame on someone else.
That's not very sporting. If the engine, trans or diff was on its way out, then it would be very immoral to pass the car off as being 'problem free' particularly if the vehicle was a one owner.
I'd be pi$$ed.
heavyduty1340
09-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Better off being honest , or keep the car and drop in a crate motor as they are cheap as these days:goodjob:
WOMBIE
09-02-2009, 07:07 PM
However, I won't be bitching and complaining about a seller not telling me everything about a car (or whatever) prior to a purchase.
Good for you :goodjob:
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 07:18 PM
That's not very sporting. If the engine, trans or diff was on its way out, then it would be very immoral to pass the car off as being 'problem free' particularly if the vehicle was a one owner.
I'd be pi$$ed.
care to show me where I said I'd pass a car off as "problem free" when it wasn't.
Excellent
09-02-2009, 07:34 PM
care to show me where I said I'd pass a car off as "problem free" when it wasn't.
You didn't state that but you were certainly implying you wouldn't tell them 'everything'.
I'm wondering what you wouldn't tell them?
Devil CV8
09-02-2009, 09:09 PM
You didn't state that but you were certainly implying you wouldn't tell them 'everything'.
I'm wondering what you wouldn't tell them? Time for some reading comprehension updates. Go back and read my post that you quoted.
FFS how many times do I have to type it. It is upto the buyer to take responsability for their purchasing decision and not rely on others.
That is the problem with people today, not taking responsability for their actions.
V-Car
09-02-2009, 10:16 PM
FFS how many times do I have to type it. It is upto the buyer to take responsability for their purchasing decision and not rely on others.
So if you were selling a car and you knew something was wrong with it, if the buyer, before having it checked professionally, asked you if you knew of anything that might be wrong with it, (which they are entitled to do) would you say yes there is or no there isnt? ;)
SVNLTR
09-02-2009, 11:47 PM
duty of care what duty of care. Care to explain where a private seller has a duty of care to tell a prospective buyer everything?
duty of care is just that-
its wrong to offload something knowing their is something wrong with it-
if i sell something and their is a problem with it i got to come to the party=because i would hope someone would before it got out of hand-( i have been rasied like that)
some people only care about today-but not me
besides if i would rip or cheat someone the amount would have to be 25-50 times greater then a second hand car-
not worth the effort and headaches for 5-15k
vt748
10-02-2009, 02:37 AM
I wouldn't consider myself clueless but I took what I believed were all precautionary steps to avoid buying a car like this but unfortunately there are people out there that are happy to be deceptive when selling a car.
I'd be interested to know what all the precautionary steps you took were.
The rest of the thread certainly turned into a sh*^ fight. LOL.
I am with CSP and Devil CV8 here. If you enter the second hand market then you do so at your own risk. If you are not comfortable with this, I would suggest you stay out of the market.
If I am selling a car I am trying to maximise the selling price just as the buyer is trying to minimise the price. It is not up to me to highlight any issues. Obviously if asked a direct question by the seller then I would confirm that it had piston slap, but I do not believe it is up to me to point this out. As has been previously pointed out it is certainly buyer beware. I can't believe that a buyer would enter the market without researching the model of car and associated problems. This would certainly show what to look for and what questions to ask but as the seller it is not to up to me to educate the buyer.
ls1vt209 can strike me off his list of potential car sellers because I along with CSP must be dishonest. :confused:
I have never had the money to buy a new car so all the cars I have ever purchased have been second hand. Have I ever been stung? Of course. I have always noticed something once I have parted with the cash that I didn't see when I inspected it. Personally I have walked away from cars that are already warm when I arrive to inspect it. I can look at it another day. I have also asked that the car be cold when I arrive when making initial inquires.
planetdavo
10-02-2009, 05:49 AM
Some interesting opinions on this one. Pretty much a reflection of society in general, I'd suggest.
My thoughts...
People that feel "morally obligated" to be fair are more likely to trade the car in to a car yard, as their markup is likely to cover the repair, and they can also spread the cost over the rest of their cars for sale.
People that "don't really give a f#ck about anyone" are more likely to sell it privately and deny everything, or openly lie about it's condition. One lady owner, serviced regularly, best car I've ever owned, never had one problem, shame I need to sell it but I need something bigger for the kids etc...:rofl:
In the middle somewhere are quite a number of people that wont admit anything, but also wont openly lie about it either, which is fair enough, as it is a used car.
The buyer should take all steps to have it's condition checked, but also, shouldn't have to deal with unscrupulous private sellers. Personally, I feel that consumer protection from registered used car sellers should also provide some form of protection for buyers of private seller cars, as they are pretty free to do what they want at the moment, bar the RWC requirements.
Devil CV8
10-02-2009, 05:56 AM
So if you were selling a car and you knew something was wrong with it, if the buyer, before having it checked professionally, asked you if you knew of anything that might be wrong with it, (which they are entitled to do) would you say yes there is or no there isnt? ;) If they asked about problems then yes I would tell them about any professionally diagnosed problems. I am not a mechanic and wouldn't give a guess about what may be wrong. ie If asked about a noise I will not say "yeh that noise is piston slap and the engine needs a rebuild urgently" I would however say "LS1's are a noisy engine, this one does/doesn't use oil, starts first go and drives well. If you are concerned may I suggest getting the car checked out at your cost by your mechanic"
duty of care is just that-
its wrong to offload something knowing their is something wrong with it- nothing illegal about. As long as the seller doesn't lie, it is upto the buyer to do their checks.
if i sell something and their is a problem with it i got to come to the party=because i would hope someone would before it got out of hand-( i have been rasied like that) So if you sold a HQ kingswood for $1000 to a numpty who didn't do any checks and it threw a rod a day later you'd give them their money back?
some people only care about today-but not me
besides if i would rip or cheat someone the amount would have to be 25-50 times greater then a second hand car-
not worth the effort and headaches for 5-15k
And that is the difference between you and me I wouldn't rip off or cheat someone out of any amount of money. Good to see you are honest enough to tell the forum you are hoever willing to rip off or cheat someone. Remind me never to buy a house from you, as that fits the area where you have admitted you would cheat someone.
OPPYLOCK
10-02-2009, 08:01 AM
If I'm ever selling anything at all I always tell prospective buyers about any known problems. If there is a big problem I have it fixed before selling.
I have bought heaps of second hand cars and bikes over the years and have only ever done a simple once over inspection for obvious problems. Never bought a dud or been ripped off in any way.
Good karma is the best protection.
I'd be interested to know what all the precautionary steps you took were. .
I heard the car cold, stuck my head in the engine bay. It was the quietest LS engine i'd heard. I had it RACV tested also. Bought the car and took delivery after about 2 weeks. Then flew off to Japan the next day for 2 weeks. Came back and discovered she was a slapper. Not sure why I didn't hear it at the dealer but it's pretty loud so I can only suspect foul play. But that isn't what this thread is about and it's history.
Thanks everyone for all your interesting posts. I definately didn't expect this much response. Perhaps I'm naive but Holden and other mechanics tell me that piston slap isn't a terminal problem and shouldn't effect performance or the life of the engine as long as it isn't using oil. So is it really a problem or just an annoyance? Given a lot of people's resonses to this thread, many buyers would still perceive it to be a problem and would therefore be pi$$ed. From my own moral point of view I think it would be best to sell the car cheap privately and make sure the car is cold but leave it up to the buyer to comment on the slap unless they specifically ask. I don't think it would be easy to get rid of though.
SVNLTR
10-02-2009, 09:06 AM
And that is the difference between you and me I wouldn't rip off or cheat someone out of any amount of money. Good to see you are honest enough to tell the forum you are hoever willing to rip off or cheat someone. Remind me never to buy a house from you, as that fits the area where you have admitted you would cheat someone.[/QUOTE]
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________
i got nothing to hide -you got the honest bit right i cant lie for shit so i wont bother trying-
i wont rip or lie to someone about a second hand car its not worth the headaches for the small amount-
usual example- rob a milkbar for $500.00 or a bank for 5 million
take it for what its worth-
enough from me-
steve_t
10-02-2009, 09:36 AM
I also believe it's caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
However, for all you guys saying that if the buyer doesn't check it out, it's his own idiotic fault, what do you say if they ask you what the problems with the car are? Or if there are any quirks or other things they should know about the car? Do you lie and say "Nothing that I can think of" or do you tell them that there is some piston slap, or that sometimes you need to go thru some weird procedure to start the car, or that sometimes it crunches when shifting into 3rd gear?
I guess these are things the buyer should pick up on the test drive, but I wanna get a feel for if you guys will rather than not mention any issues, actually lie about them. These are 2 totally different concepts :1peek:
Devil CV8
10-02-2009, 03:40 PM
I also believe it's caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. That is the simplest way to put it.
However, for all you guys saying that if the buyer doesn't check it out, it's his own idiotic fault, what do you say if they ask you what the problems with the car are? Or if there are any quirks or other things they should know about the car? Do you lie and say "Nothing that I can think of" or do you tell them that there is some piston slap, or that sometimes you need to go thru some weird procedure to start the car, or that sometimes it crunches when shifting into 3rd gear?
When selling cars previously I've explained any issues as I knew about them. ie "Any rust" I've pointed out all the rust I know of. I however can't be held responsable for rust I don't know of.
Sold a VS exec on ebay, described correctly, questions answered and the winner drove 8 hours to pick it up. Did a test drive and was happy that it was "as described"
so yes, I will tell the truth when asked about a problem. Do I have to, NO.
And that is the crux of the issue. The buyer needs to satisfy themself that they are happy with what they are getting and not rely on the seller.
V-Car
10-02-2009, 05:20 PM
Do I have to, NO.
I think your selling ethics say more about you than the car your selling! ;)
Excellent
10-02-2009, 05:56 PM
I think your selling ethics say more about you than the car your selling! ;)
Like people selling their cars, if you don't trust the seller's character, don't buy the car from them. I know it's a gut feeling but some of the attitudes here would worry me even though they all profess to be enthusiasts.
:bsmeter:
VZSSFUN
10-02-2009, 07:48 PM
Just be honest and tell them, don't be a twat! If this is a traceable issue then you could get sued under the goods and services act for knowingly selling a damaged product. IF you try to sell it I hope you get yours in the end
Where has anyone said they would deliberately try to decieve someone? If I was asked a direct question about an issue with the car, I would answer truthfully. But if they came and saw a car, liked it and bought it, it's not my problem if the wheels fall off or the engine blows up down the street! (for those slower ones among us, I was exagerating with that example)
It is the BUYER'S responsibility to ensure THEY get what they pay for. Not the other way around.
steve_t
10-02-2009, 08:01 PM
How would they know that you knowingly sold a damaged product? Unless you wrote on some internet forum or something like that :rofl:
Piston slap isn't necessarily damage either.
I agree that you should tell them issues and stuff if they ask, but it's not up to the seller to write down or rattle off a list of all the things they think is wrong with the car. That could take forever in some cases!
If the buyer doesn't ask, it's not the seller's fault. It's just like buying a house - you have to ask about everything!
This is the most fair way for both the buyer and seller to deal with things
planetdavo
10-02-2009, 08:57 PM
It is the BUYER'S responsibility to ensure THEY get what they pay for. Not the other way around.
Kind of.
Where the system breaks down is that if a used car is sold by a registered dealer, it is covered by various laws to protect the consumer, but if the same car is sold privately, it has little protection at all. The buyer of a car through a private seller should receive some sort of extra protection, even if that means nothing more than a compulsary comprehensive condition report, rather than just a roadworthy certificate. Many private sellers are more shonky than that shonkiest of professions, the "used car salesman".
Devil CV8
10-02-2009, 09:58 PM
I think your selling ethics say more about you than the car your selling! ;)
Time for some reading comprehension skill updates for you. Did you even read what I posted. it was "Do I have to, NO" It wasn't "I won't tell you a damn thing and will lie my ass off"
I even listed a couple of examples where I have sold cars and have truthfully described or answered questions about cars.
Your attempt at a cheap shot says more about your ethics than it does about mine.
Just be honest and tell them, don't be a twat! If this is a traceable issue then you could get sued under the goods and services act for knowingly selling a damaged product. IF you try to sell it I hope you get yours in the end Sorry, "Legally" and I will repeat for the slow readers out their " L E G A L L Y " the seller can say anything he wants to a buyer to get said buyer to buy the car, and "Legally" the buyer has no comeback.
Would I do this, NO. have I done this, again NO. Could I if I wanted to as there is no LEGAL problem, YES. But again I have not before and have no intention of lieing or concealing problems about a car (or anything) that I may sell.
It is the BUYER'S responsibility to ensure THEY get what they pay for. Not the other way around.
Exactly.
Pity some posters on here can't distinguish a discussion between what a buyer and seller's legal responsability is and turn it into a personal witch hunt.
Now I see what Planetdavo has to deal with.:goodjob:
Various laws didn't protect me from buying a car with piston slap. When Holden insist that it isn't a problem then there's no hope of getting a rebuild on car that's done 50,000kms and is out of manufacturers warranty. There were other issues apart from the piston slap that I had with the car and the dealer. I contacted consumer affairs and the VACC and neither were really interested in my problems. The VACC actually defended the dealer even though on the VACC website in big letters it sets out their members code of conduct and how I can feel safe when dealing with a VACC member! I don't want to go into the other problems I had but I couldn't help feel I'd been well and truley bent over by the dealer and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
I think from a buyers point of view, I will never buy from a dealer again, never get an RACV inspection again, and always take the car to a forum sponsor to get checked over first. It doesn't matter what questions you ask a dealer or a private seller. You're never going to know the true answer unless you check it out for yourself.
From a sellers point of view, I'm not going to give a buyer a list of defects to go through. Every second hand car, especially Holdens, have things that don't work properly. For example, say my mechanic told me last service that I'm going to need new brake pads and rotors next service. That would make them just within roadworthy limits. I'm not going to tell the buyer that they're going to be up for a few grand shortly because I can guarantee I'll be the one that will have to drop the selling price.
The point of this thread was that piston slap is an obvious problem for a buyer to pick up on if the seller does the right thing but it is also easy to hide. If a seller has high morals how the hell do they get rid of their car if it has piston slap given that no one wants one unless they're going to rip the engine out anyway? Or are there people out there that wouldn't be too worried about it if I told them about it. Would someone for example buy a VZ R8 with slap over a VYR8 if they were the same price?
Excellent
11-02-2009, 09:02 AM
Time for some reading comprehension skill updates for you. Did you even read what I posted. it was "Do I have to, NO" It wasn't "I won't tell you a damn thing and will lie my ass off"
I even listed a couple of examples where I have sold cars and have truthfully described or answered questions about cars.
Your attempt at a cheap shot says more about your ethics than it does about mine.
Sorry, "Legally" and I will repeat for the slow readers out their " L E G A L L Y " the seller can say anything he wants to a buyer to get said buyer to buy the car, and "Legally" the buyer has no comeback.
Would I do this, NO. have I done this, again NO. Could I if I wanted to as there is no LEGAL problem, YES. But again I have not before and have no intention of lieing or concealing problems about a car (or anything) that I may sell.
Exactly.
Pity some posters on here can't distinguish a discussion between what a buyer and seller's legal responsability is and turn it into a personal witch hunt.
Now I see what Planetdavo has to deal with.:goodjob:
V-car was right. Anybody that resorts to using legal jargon in his defense, just to sell his car, is really..... well....... I definitely wouldn't buy a car from that person.
Walk away.
Various laws didn't protect me from buying a car with piston slap. When Holden insist that it isn't a problem then there's no hope of getting a rebuild on car that's done 50,000kms and is out of manufacturers warranty. There were other issues apart from the piston slap that I had with the car and the dealer. I contacted consumer affairs and the VACC and neither were really interested in my problems. The VACC actually defended the dealer even though on the VACC website in big letters it sets out their members code of conduct and how I can feel safe when dealing with a VACC member! I don't want to go into the other problems I had but I couldn't help feel I'd been well and truley bent over by the dealer and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
I think from a buyers point of view, I will never buy from a dealer again, never get an RACV inspection again, and always take the car to a forum sponsor to get checked over first. It doesn't matter what questions you ask a dealer or a private seller. You're never going to know the true answer unless you check it out for yourself.
From a sellers point of view, I'm not going to give a buyer a list of defects to go through. Every second hand car, especially Holdens, have things that don't work properly. For example, say my mechanic told me last service that I'm going to need new brake pads and rotors next service. That would make them just within roadworthy limits. I'm not going to tell the buyer that they're going to be up for a few grand shortly because I can guarantee I'll be the one that will have to drop the selling price.
The point of this thread was that piston slap is an obvious problem for a buyer to pick up on if the seller does the right thing but it is also easy to hide. If a seller has high morals how the hell do they get rid of their car if it has piston slap given that no one wants one unless they're going to rip the engine out anyway? Or are there people out there that wouldn't be too worried about it if I told them about it. Would someone for example buy a VZ R8 with slap over a VYR8 if they were the same price?
In your circumstance, I feel for you. I think that the engine should be repaired at Holden's expense. Worst case, you fork out $1000 for the repair, then pass this cost onto the buyer. At least that's a good compromise, don't you think? :)
Holden Man
11-02-2009, 09:15 AM
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc310/HoldenMan_2007/PistonSlap.jpg
vxSSilver
11-02-2009, 10:29 AM
my last VX SS had bad piston slap for the year i had it, when it came time to sell i filled it up with some goo, moreys something and it quietend it up.
maybe it is dodgy, but the engine was fine, just noisey!
my last VX SS had bad piston slap for the year i had it, when it came time to sell i filled it up with some goo, moreys something and it quietend it up.
maybe it is dodgy, but the engine was fine, just noisey!
No inspection is going to protect the buyer from those sort of practices. That was what I suspected the dealer did to my car. The thing is, I don't really blame you for doing it. GM get away with producing a second rate product and us loyal customers are left to deal with it.
seedyrom
11-02-2009, 11:12 AM
You are sure its piston slap are you?
As some others have said, that issue should have been resolved by the time your car was built. It may well be in factory tolerances, but a little loud due to other issues.
Would a thicker oil (10w/60) quieten it up?
Heaps of people use that thickness, and these engines love it.
Has anyone other than Holden looked at it?
And some cars are just rattlers - due to manufacturing awesomeness (I love the "Made in Mexico" stickers all over the back of them).
You might not actually be consdered dodgy if you advise that its a little loud cause its a "bloody V8" or "australian built" etc Then you and the potential buyer have a little laugh together.
I mean, Holden have been told of the problem and didn't feel it was piston slap, so maybe you shouldn't either.
You sound like a very honest guy with lots of integrity though :)
That'll cost ya :p
You are sure its piston slap are you?
As some others have said, that issue should have been resolved by the time your car was built. It may well be in factory tolerances, but a little loud due to other issues.
Would a thicker oil (10w/60) quieten it up?
Heaps of people use that thickness, and these engines love it.
Has anyone other than Holden looked at it?
I chatted to a forum sponsor who said it would be piston slap based on what I described. I'm not the only LS2 owner on this forum who has it either so GM may have improved their manufacturing techniques but there are still some duds slipping through. I recently went from 5w/30 to 10w/60 which did help it a bit. It still takes 10 minutes for the noise to completely go away but it's definately not as loud.
vxSSilver
11-02-2009, 12:41 PM
No inspection is going to protect the buyer from those sort of practices. That was what I suspected the dealer did to my car. The thing is, I don't really blame you for doing it. GM get away with producing a second rate product and us loyal customers are left to deal with it.
I think its what the dealer had done to me when i bought it.
was really quiet untill first oil change then it sounded like a sewing machine.
i sold it back to that dealer so i did the same back :)
steve_t
11-02-2009, 12:49 PM
You are sure its piston slap are you?
And some cars are just rattlers - due to manufacturing awesomeness (I love the "Made in Mexico" stickers all over the back of them).
You might not actually be consdered dodgy if you advise that its a little loud cause its a "bloody V8" or "australian built" etc Then you and the potential buyer have a little laugh together.
I mean, Holden have been told of the problem and didn't feel it was piston slap, so maybe you shouldn't either.
What's the difference between piston slap and a piston that's loose and 'rattling' around in the cylinder? Did Holden say it wasn't piston slap? Or just that it wasn't a problem that would affect performance or longevity of the engine?
Devil CV8
11-02-2009, 05:22 PM
I think from a buyers point of view, I will never buy from a dealer again, never get an RACV inspection again, and always take the car to a forum sponsor to get checked over first. It doesn't matter what questions you ask a dealer or a private seller. You're never going to know the true answer unless you check it out for yourself. Very good. While you have been taken for a ride by a dealer you are showing you have learnt from it.
From a sellers point of view, I'm not going to give a buyer a list of defects to go through..... snip.... I'm not going to tell the buyer that they're going to be up for a few grand shortly because I can guarantee I'll be the one that will have to drop the selling price. Exactly. there is a difference between being deceitful as a seller or listing every single thing that may be wrong with a car.
V-car was right. Anybody that resorts to using legal jargon in his defense, just to sell his car, is really..... well....... I definitely wouldn't buy a car from that person.
Walk away.
yet another one who has reading comprehension issues. Go and read the thread and understand it before you reply again.
I chatted to a forum sponsor who said it would be piston slap based on what I described. I'm not the only LS2 owner on this forum who has it either so GM may have improved their manufacturing techniques but there are still some duds slipping through. I recently went from 5w/30 to 10w/60 which did help it a bit. It still takes 10 minutes for the noise to completely go away but it's definately not as loud.
Go and have a forum sponsor listen to it rather than relying on a description of the noise. As was suggested, try different oils. These engines are sensitive to what oils are used. There are plenty of examples on the forum where oil brand x was used and the engine was a rattly as a diesel, whereas when the oil was changed to brand y everything quietened down.
planetdavo
11-02-2009, 05:41 PM
One only has to read numerous other threads to discover that this awfully common "slap" is often easier to fix top end/lifter noise or as devil says, type of oil....:teach:
Devil CV8
11-02-2009, 06:45 PM
One only has to read numerous other threads to discover that this awfully common "slap" is often easier to fix top end/lifter noise or as devil says, type of oil....:teach:
come on pd, how dare you try and derail this thread with common sense.
Now go away and think up a response with no thought behind it at all...:)
planetdavo
11-02-2009, 06:52 PM
come on pd, how dare you try and derail this thread with common sense.
Now go away and think up a response with no thought behind it at all...:)
I tuk me car into thos f'n contz at tha stealership for a headlight globe change, n it cum out wif a rattly mota. F#k thos contz :flipoff:
:lmao:
cholo
11-02-2009, 07:27 PM
what is piston slap btw? i never really understood what it meant. :)
planetdavo
11-02-2009, 07:36 PM
what is piston slap btw? i never really understood what it meant.
Girlfriends got a blown out motor. :)
steve_t
11-02-2009, 07:43 PM
what is piston slap btw? i never really understood what it meant. :)
Can't be bothered google ing it?
It's where the piston moves side to side in the cylinder instead of just up and down. Basically the piston is too small for the cylinder for some reason. The sound is when the piston hits the side of the cylinder bore. It tends to go away as the engine warms up as the piston expands with the heat... there's heaps on the internets ;)
V-Car
12-02-2009, 12:18 AM
what is piston slap btw? i never really understood what it meant. :)
ITS ALL HERE (http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ls1+piston+slap)
One only has to read numerous other threads to discover that this awfully common "slap" is often easier to fix top end/lifter noise or as devil says, type of oil....:teach:
I've tried Magnatec 15w40, GTX2 20w50, Edge 5w30, and Edge 10w60 plus whatever was in it when I got the car. The 10w60 is definately quieter but the ticking seems to last longer than the others. After 5 different oils I gave up. The answer given by the forum sponsor sounded fairly definate to me. I would have thought they would know enough about these engines to suggest it could also be lifters or something else. My understanding from what I've read in here is that lifter noise generally occurs when the engine is warm, not cold. I could be wrong though.
planetdavo
12-02-2009, 07:11 PM
Lifter noise often occurs when cold, if the lifters bleed down when not running overnight for example.
tyrhantc
12-02-2009, 10:30 PM
This is the very reason I only buy new cars now and trade back to the car dealer.
At least I have the peace of mind that if there is a problem I can try and go back against Holden not some guy who I meet in a car park to show me a car. But in saying that you also pay for that peace of mind.
But thats the circle isn't it. When I was younger my only choice was to buy a second hand car (not that I got dudded), now I wouldnt touch one with a ten foot pole. I have enough of my own problems without buying someone else's.
So at the end of my long-winded reply some people will be honest and up front about some issues and others wont. But thats the second hand car industry I believe and a buyer should know that.
vlcalais8
13-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Ive always told people about the noticeable problems with the cars I sell, imagine how much of an idiot you would feel like if you try keep your mouth shut/make out nothings wrong then a cluey prospective buyer confronts you about it. Ive had this happen to me but in reversed scenario, I just make some lame excuse that I had to go and wished the seller good luck selling thier POS. Its alot easier to sell something when your honest and try work out a deal with most people than to try find an idiot to buy something off you that has a problem. Small things like missing clips on your interior kick panels etc etc arent wrth mentioning but bigger things are best mentioned
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