VE 6.0 litre verse VT-Z 5.7 litre - which one faster with Bolt-ons and with Cam?

[troytroy]

The trend of L98 engines getting some awesome power on the dyno both with the bolt-ons and with cam and the difference in power, on average(?), seems to be about the 25kw mark - thanks to the displacement and the great heads of the L98.

But does the extra weight with VE negate this extra power? or does the extra Torque cover the weight disadvantage?

The thought of getting a 300rwkw cammed VE is quite attractive, but is it worth trading up from a 5.7 litre? (balanced by resale loss etc)

VY SS weighs - 1658kg
HSV VY Clubsport - 1660kg (R8 - 1696kg)
VE SS weighs - 1770kg (SSV extra 20kg)
HSV VE Clubsport - 1812kg

Is it like the FORD camp where they add extra power and seemingly a corresponding weight increase only to get the same perfomance as the previous model?

Hypothetically - VY and VE SS with standard Bolt-ons (Exhaust, intake, tune) what will be the difference in 1/4 mile time and/or 0-100km/h? Is there anything in it?

VY and VE with exact same 220 cam and with above bolt-ons - 1/4 mile difference or 0-100 km/h difference? I've noticed that 280rwkw for an LS1 and 305rwkw for a VE is a rough estimate does this extra power equate to extra performance?

I'm obviously trying to ignore other important variables such as ripshift, clutch, UDPs, driver capability etc - just focussing on power and torque converting to performance.

[Oztrack Tuning]

average gain 17rwkw more for a VE SS to be as quick as a VYSS.

a stock VE vs a VY with modded exhaust will be close.

A VY with OTR/exhaust vs same in a VE will see a different of more than 17rwkw to the VE.

Cammed they seem to be a fair bit more than 17rwkw difference.

BUT its far easier to get a VY lighter at the strip.

Results at the strip.
We have seen stock tuned VEs going low13s and high12s.
a stock tuned VY wont do that.

Cammed stock stalled VEs going low12s, a VY will go mid to high 12s with the same mods.

If people chase times with stall converter equipped A6 VE's it seems to be harder, the fastest i am aware of is 11.50/120mph. Similarly modded VYs would be in the low11s - mostly due to weight differences and too many gear changes.

The extra power gain in the L98 i think is due to their heads being excellent on the inlet port, if you help them on the exhaust side with big long extractors the gains our outstanding.

[TommyVTss]

i have actually often wondered this,

didnt think the ve would be quicker in stock form...

what about ve vs vy both manual and tune only ?

also can anyone tell me the weight of a vt ss ?

[HYMEY]

If you look at drag racing, there is a VE time list that gives you an idea.

[Oldmonroman]

i have actually often wondered this,

didnt think the ve would be quicker in stock form...

what about ve vs vy both manual and tune only ?

also can anyone tell me the weight of a vt ss ?

I have driven a few 5.7's in stock form and I can tell you this that the best 5.7 ever produced was the 5.7 found in the VZ or the CV8z monaro range (260Kw 500Nm) mainly the 500 Nm what i am looking at as most 5.7's were slugs in standard form and were known for there lack of low end pulling power.
(PS whats the Torque figures of the VE L98 270KW engine in standard form?)

[SS Enforcer]

I have driven a few 5.7's in stock form and I can tell you this that the best 5.7 ever produced was the 5.7 found in the VZ or the CV8z monaro range (260Kw 500Nm) mainly the 500 Nm what i am looking at as most 5.7's were slugs in standard form and were known for there lack of low end pulling power.
(PS whats the Torque figures of the VE L98 270KW engine in standard form?)

What about the 285 from the vyr8 ? really the difference is in the tune and slight airbox mods and exhaust mods in the case of HSV. I have gone through all the 5.7 tunes and compared them and you can see the early models only ran 9 degrees timing max or 12 for a 02 monaro up to 18 for a vyr8. There are other adjustments for fueling as well but the big change is in the timing table. Thats why there is huge gains to be had from getting your 5.7 tuned properly.

Ve's on the other hand are tuned better from factory in stock form and a tuner needs to work harder to get a result.

The 6.0l is going to make better power than a 5.7 period but with the right set of mods a 5.7 can get cracking. I know my 5.7 isn't going to make any where near the HP my VE did. I have set a goal of around 265 rwkw for the clubbie and thats all I want.

cheers

[XUV]

^ 510 min .

[LooneyR8]

I have driven a few 5.7's in stock form and I can tell you this that the best 5.7 ever produced was the 5.7 found in the VZ or the CV8z monaro range (260Kw 500Nm) mainly the 500 Nm what i am looking at as most 5.7's were slugs in standard form and were known for there lack of low end pulling power.
(PS whats the Torque figures of the VE L98 270KW engine in standard form?)

Not to sure about that claim. My VTII R8 pulls 265kw and 560Nm of torque with just an exhaust change. Standard HSV headers and a 2.5 inch exhaust. Also the VT being fairly light compared to other l8r models makes them a good 1/4 mile weapon.

[Oldmonroman]

What about the 285 from the vyr8 ?

Yes I wonder what the difference is to achieve this from the base engine of that year? I wonder what HSV actually done to get the 285 out of them? Was there was any hardware changes to these HSV engines?
But in general we all know the old saying and that is "YOU CAN'T BEAT CUBIC INCHES"

[planetdavo]

Yes I wonder what the difference is to achieve this from the base engine of that year? I wonder what HSV actually done to get the 285 out of them? Was there was any hardware changes to these HSV engines?

Same engine, but with much the same intake/exhaust/tune mods many do on here.

As for performance, VE's seem easily capable of repeatable mid 5's to 100km/h stock, whereas LS1's rarely get around that, and certainly can't repeat the best times they achieve over and over again. Bolt ons only seem to keep the status quo from what I've seen.

[XUV]

seems primaries make a huge difference ,
as two 5.7's were done in '04

the 285 with 510nm
and the 270 with only 475 nm .

but to stay on track you could put up the 04 clubbys
as they were both vy11 and VZ
So 5.7 285 510NM against 6.0 297 530NM .

[VZ_V8]

why not have the best of both worlds? VZ Ute with L98 ;) :)

[VZMY06SS]

I agree with VZ V8. I have a VZ SS with an L76 with a lifter change and a 224 cam. Made a easy 300rwkw's and the cam has almost factory manners. Plus it weighs about the same as any other vt-vz... I have seen an almost stock one of these run a 13.6 with only pod setup and 15inch tyres..

[TAKEITEZ]

a VZ with an L98 would be a great rig if i were looking for a new ute :)...

or i'd love to get a clapped out VU with a million miles on it, ditch the LS1, add an LS3 and a 4L65E... some 3.91's a big stall and a big cam with a big exhaust, OTR and a good tune and run low 11's or high 10's out of the box on DR's :)


the L98 VE vs LS1 VT-Z race is one i'm having with a mate over this season at the track...

VE L98 with 220/220 cam etc, 25% UDP, full exhaust, OTR, tune, 16" MT DR's... stock stall, stock diff gears...
VY LS1 with stock cam, 25% UDP, full exhaust, OTR, tune, 16" MT DR's... big stall, 3.91 diff gears...

the VE runs 1.9 - 2.0 sixty footers but pulls a lot higher mph than me...
the VY runs 1.6 sixty footers but only pulls to 110ish mph...

12.4 - 5 for the VE...
12.1 - 2 for the VY ...

which one would be a nicer car to drive? depends what you want and what your idea of a nice street car is...

i think 95% of normal people would pick the VE over my car... you'd be mad not to!!!
to drive on the street, using it for work, carrying family, long trips on the highway - the VE will shit all over mine for driveability, fuel consumption, comfort, noise... everything...

but being a young dude i can happily tolerate a stall that makes the car a little interesting to drive... i can put up with a bit of extra fuel consumption... i quite like the noise... and i love the full throttle flash when overtaking...


stock for stock - absolutely stock - would the VE Calais have matched my 13.89 @ 100mph??? who knows...

holden should have made the 4L65E an option on the VE V8 range... that would have made a quick car out of it :)

otherwise you could just buy a manual and it wouldn't matter so much...

[SS Enforcer]

seems primaries make a huge difference ,
as two 5.7's were done in '04

the 285 with 510nm
and the 270 with only 475 nm .

but to stay on track you could put up the 04 clubbys
as they were both vy11 and VZ
So 5.7 285 510NM against 6.0 297 530NM .

You can't compare a stock ls1 with a ls2 as the ls2 has a bigger cam and throttle body on it.

cheers