Ve Wagon X-force: Question

[sheeks84]

Hi all,

Ive recently had a full X-Force stainless 2.5'' system fitted to my wagon, and had a full mafless tune done aswell.
Car sounded fantastic for the first few days, but after a week or so the note exhuast lost its bark, and the car now drones a lot, which it did not do for the first week.
I was wondering if anyone had any similar troubles with their X-Force systems, and what they did to rectify it. I have had the car back to the workshop that carried out the work, they removed the cats and mufflers but could not find anything wrong with the system.
Also, im having trouble with the car shuddering when getting back on the accelerator after backing off. The problem is, when i back off, it takes a second or two for the revs to start coming down, and when it finally does and you get back on the gas, the driveline shudders.
Could this be related to the exhaust issue, or something else?
My clutch is getting a bit average, so im thinking that could be to do with the clutch playing up.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[CSP]

Well that answers my question on getting a 2.5" X-Force for my Sportwagon... :(

[NickS]

Well that answers my question on getting a 2.5" X-Force for my Sportwagon... :(

I've had one on my Sportwagon for 5,000 kms and I have had none of the issues mentioned above ... couldn't be happier with it in fact.

:confused:

[SSBRUT]

I've had one on my Sportwagon for 5,000 kms and I have had none of the issues mentioned above ... couldn't be happier with it in fact.

:confused:Same here maybe its your tune or something. Cant see the exhaust making it do that.

[CSP]

I've had one on my Sportwagon for 5,000 kms and I have had none of the issues mentioned above ... couldn't be happier with it in fact.

:confused:


Same here maybe its your tune or something. Cant see the exhaust making it do that.

So you guys both have X-Force 2.5 inch systems on your VE Sportwagons? What headers & cats? Got sound files?

If there's two others without issues, it seems like the OP might have a different issue.. :confused:

[SSBRUT]

Got X-Force headers & cats sorry dont have a sound files.

[VESS-VWagon]

Was a bit worried when I read this post but thankfully there are some people with positives to say about the X-Force.

I'm booked in to Sureflo next Thursday for a twin 3" X-Force cat back with the Varex mufflers. I'm using Sureflos extractors and the ballistic high flo cats so not full X-Force.

I sincerely hope I don't see any of these problems, fingers crossed.

[sheeks84]

As mentioned, it sounded sensational for th first few days, then within a week the note changed and it started to drone. Took it to my local exhaust bloke, who used to do a bit of work for manufacturers, and he said its the rear mufflers. Going to have some different mufflers made up and see how that goes.
As he said, it wouldnt be a problem in a sedan, but the wagon makes even a small amount of drone much worse.

[VESS-VWagon]

Let us know how it goes. I'll be interested to see the result.

Is the car an auto?

[CSP]

Was a bit worried when I read this post but thankfully there are some people with positives to say about the X-Force.

I'm booked in to Sureflo next Thursday for a twin 3" X-Force cat back with the Varex mufflers. I'm using Sureflos extractors and the ballistic high flo cats so not full X-Force.

I sincerely hope I don't see any of these problems, fingers crossed.

Very interested in your results... Keep us posted. Is yours an auto?

[sheeks84]

Let us know how it goes. I'll be interested to see the result.

Is the car an auto?

Car is a manual. Will know by next Tusday arvo if its yay or nay. Getting LS7 clutch and flywheel done soon aswell, my clutch has just about had enough.

[VESS-VWagon]

Very interested in your results... Keep us posted. Is yours an auto?

I'll let you all know how it goes. Have a 4 hour drive home so plenty of time to muck around with it and get a good feel for it.

And mine's a manual also.

[ebbett21]

i too had a twin 3'' fitted a week ago and sounded awesome but now im wondering why it sounds flat lost some of the bark im not sure but plant the foot and it sounds terrible???

[planetdavo]

I suspect two things.
Firstly, the system has carboned up a bit now, which, as many exhaust threads have discussed, changes the note, for better or for worse.
Secondly, the initial thrill has settled, and you now notice the negatives. This is the same as when people pick up their new cars. They are perfect for a few days, then you start noticing the things you missed at the beginning...

[sheeks84]

I suspect two things.
Firstly, the system has carboned up a bit now, which, as many exhaust threads have discussed, changes the note, for better or for worse.
Secondly, the initial thrill has settled, and you now notice the negatives. This is the same as when people pick up their new cars. They are perfect for a few days, then you start noticing the things you missed at the beginning...

Your spot on with the carbon build up. But seriously, a change this big in a week? This will teach me to cheap out on the zorst. Will get s custom system next time round.

[heavyduty1340]

Ive got the manta on the wagon and love it

I had heard of people not being happy with the x-force , so I gave the manta a go

Each to their own

[CLUBRED]

Mate has a calais v, he initially fitted the full system inc aftermarket mufflers, tuned and dyno'd, not happy with noise etc. Fitted the factory mufflers only back on, netted much better result re noise and drone - surprised, only lost 4kw.................

[ebbett21]

I suspect two things.
Firstly, the system has carboned up a bit now, which, as many exhaust threads have discussed, changes the note, for better or for worse.
Secondly, the initial thrill has settled, and you now notice the negatives. This is the same as when people pick up their new cars. They are perfect for a few days, then you start noticing the things you missed at the beginning...

Nah the systems note changed dramatically after a few days, the sound is one thing a owner will notice in this case gone from awesome to not so awesome.

[bee444]

I've got a Mr Muffler f1 cat back on my wagon and love it:goodjob:
no drone and sounded even beta once it carboned up..

[Highway]

Was a bit worried when I read this post but thankfully there are some people with positives to say about the X-Force.

I'm booked in to Sureflo next Thursday for a twin 3" X-Force cat back with the Varex mufflers. I'm using Sureflos extractors and the ballistic high flo cats so not full X-Force.

I sincerely hope I don't see any of these problems, fingers crossed.

I am interested in the sound you get with the varex/x-force combo as I need a exhaust that can be turned down when needed for work.

Have you heard the Varex mufflers before deciding on this combo ?

Mike

[OZChris]

I noticed that you have the stainless version - is there a difference in sound to the mild steel version? I seem to recall someone mentioned that there is a difference.

Good luck and please post up your end result - like others I am looking for options on our Sportswagon. :)

[sheeks84]

I noticed that you have the stainless version - is there a difference in sound to the mild steel version? I seem to recall someone mentioned that there is a difference.

Good luck and please post up your end result - like others I am looking for options on our Sportswagon. :)

Yes, mine is full stainless. From what i have gathered the stainless is a lot tinnier than mild-steel. I asked fora mild-steel cat back, but they sent a mild steel ute system out, and the only wagon system they had in stock was stainless, so i grabbed that instead.
Proved to be a bad choice.

Will have my thoughts and a sound clip with the new mufflers next week.

[JLR]

should have go a Difillipo system, then you wouldnt have any problems ;p

[planetdavo]

should have go a Difillipo system, then you wouldnt have any problems ;p
Except for a debt that takes 3 years to pay off....:eyes:


Nah the systems note changed dramatically after a few days, the sound is one thing a owner will notice in this case gone from awesome to not so awesome.
I've known many people that, after ditching a quiet stock system, initially think the new system sounds awesome, then a week or two later it's either too quiet, too loud, too droney, or just generally not quite what they were looking for.
Hence the comment about how getting used to something can change your opinion of it. :)

[ebbett21]

Except for a debt that takes 3 years to pay off....:eyes:


I've known many people that, after ditching a quiet stock system, initially think the new system sounds awesome, then a week or two later it's either too quiet, too loud, too droney, or just generally not quite what they were looking for.
Hence the comment about how getting used to something can change your opinion of it. :)

I think best to listen to a system in person before buying, the difillipo systems 2.5 3 '' what do they sound like note wise to a xforce?

[VESS-VWagon]

I am interested in the sound you get with the varex/x-force combo as I need a exhaust that can be turned down when needed for work.

Have you heard the Varex mufflers before deciding on this combo ?

Mike

I have only heard the Varex mufflers on the video from the X-Force website and there is a sound file on here somewhere of a ute with them on. Haven't heard them in person.

It is a bit scary having a system without hearing it, and going a twin 3" in a wagon but I am hoping it will all be alright.

I'll try to get a sound file organised after it's all fitted Thursday and post it up so others can have a listen. The car is having a Russo OTRCAI fitted and tune in the coming weeks, so I'll get another sound file together after that.

If your ever near Batemans Bay or Canberra through the week, give me a yell and you can hear it first hand.

Andrew.

[Highway]

I have only heard the Varex mufflers on the video from the X-Force website and there is a sound file on here somewhere of a ute with them on. Haven't heard them in person.

It is a bit scary having a system without hearing it, and going a twin 3" in a wagon but I am hoping it will all be alright.

I'll try to get a sound file organised after it's all fitted Thursday and post it up so others can have a listen. The car is having a Russo OTRCAI fitted and tune in the coming weeks, so I'll get another sound file together after that.

If your ever near Batemans Bay or Canberra through the week, give me a yell and you can hear it first hand.

Andrew.

Andrew hope it all turns out sounding what you want.

Ive listened to the sound file a while back and it does make a big difference.

From what some people say the sound is a bit different when you quieten it down with the butterfly setup.

Has Sureflow fitted some of the varex mufflers before and had good sounding results ?

The option I have been advised about is to change the headers and cats and a catback (maybe) and leave the standard Holden rear mufflers.(only minor mods to bolt up the Holden Mufflers).Depends how loud you like it of course !!

I will actually be in Wollongong this thursday getting the lpg serviced or otherwise I could have dropped over to Sureflow for a listen.

Mike

[VESS-VWagon]

Andrew hope it all turns out sounding what you want.

Ive listened to the sound file a while back and it does make a big difference.

From what some people say the sound is a bit different when you quieten it down with the butterfly setup.

Has Sureflow fitted some of the varex mufflers before and had good sounding results ?

The option I have been advised about is to change the headers and cats and a catback (maybe) and leave the standard Holden rear mufflers.(only minor mods to bolt up the Holden Mufflers).Depends how loud you like it of course !

I will actually be in Wollongong this thursday getting the lpg serviced or otherwise I could have dropped over to Sureflow for a listen.

Mike

Cheers Mike, I hope it all turns out good too. I am very sure with the butterfly in place it will be more than quiet enough for running around town. The only thing that is bothering me is I am hoping when I have the butterfly open, it rumbles deeply like I think a V8 should. I think the extractors and high flow cats will ensure I get the meaty V8 sound. That only leaves one issue, drone!
I'm not a fan of it but have lived with it in the past with other wagons. Now as I get older, I look to minimise it. Don't know how drone will be as yet but will be interesting to see come Thursday.

To be honest, I haven't asked how many they have fitted so can't comment on that.

I do like it relatively loud but need the option of having it quiet coming and going in the early hours. Have heard about people using the stock mufflers to keep it quiet. I'll be hanging onto all the old bits just in case.

I'm coming past Wollongong on my way South on Thursday after it's fitted. If it's in the middle of the day and your still around I'm happy to swing by so you can hear it. If your PM me.

[Ron SS]

The American G8 exhausts ...see www.grrrr8.net .... supplied by American Racing Headers ARH, and Kooks, seem to fit big extractors, 1.75" or 1.875" primary pipes with clever pyramids and venturis inside the collectors too, then use 3" pipe diam entry and exit to better cats, then 3" pipes into an X pipe, then use 2.5" pipes after the X join into standard mufflers to keep the drone under control. Many tests both here and in America have shown that the rear mufflers do not absorb much power at all. Mufflers can only ever take power away, never create it, hence using std mufflers is a good way to keep drone and noise levels under control. The Yanks with full extractors (they call them headers), bigger cats, 3" pipes into an Xpipe, and then 2.5" pipes to the std rear mufflers, pick up about 25kw. ARH found no difference using 2.5" pipes after the Xpipe, compared to larger 3" pipes. Clearly the rear mufflers were only for noise, not for power.

The Americans never consider the 1 5/8" extractor primary pipes that come with the smaller X Force system, and go for larger 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" primaries. ARH advise that the 1 7/8 pipes are only of benefit when flywheel power levels exceed 500hp (375kw).

[VESS-VWagon]

Ron, thats some great info.

I scoured the forum and found some of your very comprehensive postings relating to the VE exhaust. I'll be keeping all that in mind once I have my exhaust fittted. Might be going back to the original mufflers if the drone appears.

Again, great post(s)! :goodjob:

[Highway]

:goodjob: Ron

[amckiwi]

Ron are you in the exhaust game or just well researched?

I am picking up my VE SS Ute today and looking to upgrade the exhaust and an air intake / tune at some stage

I have come from a noisy VR V8 so am now lookign for something quieter

does performance have to equal noise?

Cheers

Stu

[Highway]

Ron are you in the exhaust game or just well researched?

I am picking up my VE SS Ute today and looking to upgrade the exhaust and an air intake / tune at some stage

I have come from a noisy VR V8 so am now lookign for something quieter

does performance have to equal noise?

Cheers

Stu

Performance definately does not have to mean noise !!

My understanding is it is all in the flow,size of piping,mufflers etc and having a system where all the components complement each other .
The use that the car is intended for also is taken into account when matching components to each other.
Speak to one of the sponsors in your area.

Mike

[VESS-VWagon]

Well, went up to Sureflo on Thursday and had the new system fitted. A set of Sureflos extractors went on (unsure of what size they are), 100cpsi high flow ballistic cats, and twin 3" full stainless Varex system.

The boys did and excellent job. It looks and sounds the goods. Had a long drive home and a good muck around with it changing the position of the butterfly valve.

Fully open it is pretty loud. I have been told it's not annoyingly loud on a driveby and a really sweet, deep rumble which is good. In the cabin it is not quiet but that's what I like so it suits me. At 110km/h on the freeway it has zero drone. Hit a slight incline, engine under slight load and in 6th and the drone begins. Not terribly, had alot worse on a VY wagon with 3" single and it didn't particularly bother me in this car.

In the middle setting and with the butterfly fully shut there is no drone whatsoever. Very happy with that. Have found there to be a slight back crackle under decel in the middle setting and quite a bit with it wide open. I'm hoping this will settle as it's early days but if worse comes to worst, it just means driving around on the middle setting which is still beefy enough.

With the thing shut, it's as quiet as stock or very close to it. I have heard people say it, was a little suspicious, but now I have heard the Varex with my own ears, I'm quite impressed. No drone, no noise, very boring but highly practical. Will be no complaints from my neighbours.

All up, I am happy with the system and the flexibilty it offers. Just praying that note doesn't change now as she carbons up like others have experienced.

Will post a couple of pics and sound files on the weekend after I discover how to do it.

Cheers,
Andrew.

[Roonstain]

good to hear mate
I have Varex mufflers on my VE V6 - i love the adjustability!
I like it so much, that when I upgrade to a VE SS Wagon this year, i will be whacking on the twin 3" with Varex
If you are ever in Wollongong again mate, let us know, as we have a little car scene going on here!
Cheers
Mark

[VESS-VWagon]

good to hear mate
I have Varex mufflers on my VE V6 - i love the adjustability!
I like it so much, that when I upgrade to a VE SS Wagon this year, i will be whacking on the twin 3" with Varex
If you are ever in Wollongong again mate, let us know, as we have a little car scene going on here!
Cheers
Mark

Cheers Mark,

PM sent. :)

[amckiwi]

Performance definately does not have to mean noise !!

Mike

I am yet to find an exhaust shop to agree with that but I will keep looking

Stu