VE SSV AFM Issues

[scotty350]

Hey, have just bought a VE SSV Auto Feb 2009 build which I've found out has AFM (got suspicious after reading Wheels mag). Spoke to Holden who told me to check if the 8th character on the VIN is a Y which it is so they say it definitely has AFM. I've gone into engineering mode which confirms that it has is too as when driving it shows 'All Active' in V8 and then when it changes to V4 it shows 'Half Active'. Can't complain about fuel economy, it's excellent averaging about 10.5 ltrs/100km but my issue is that no-one told me at the dealership that was what I was buying and even after I quizzed them they still didn't know. It has no badging to say AFM, the books don't mention it at all and the dash display doesn't show it like it apparently should (unless I go into engineering mode). Holden have said they'll get back to me as I've said they can either make it identical to the one they're releasing in March with all the badging & the rest or replace the car with one that has all this as for resale, it's hard to tell someone it has it without the proper documentation. So we'll see what happens. The other main problem I have is I don't know what it's going to sound like with an after market exhaust when it's in V4 mode. It idles on V8 which is fine but cruising at 100k's on the highway or even just driving at 60k's where it cuts out to V4 with light accelaration is it going to sound like crap? I need to know cos they can have the car back if it's going to sound like a V4.....whatever that sounds like!! So did anyone else know that Holden were releasing these engines but not 'officially' advertising the fact until March (although I still haven't seen any mention of it anywhere) and has anyone heard one with an exhaust upgrade so you can tell me what it sounds like?? Cheers Scott.

[planetdavo]

Holden released a bulletin to all dealers stating that very early AFM cars did not come with either the AFM badging of the dash display enabled. It can be done, but at the owners cost. Models being built new come with them.
People seem to have a bit of a fear of the unknown with this system.
As it only operates under very light load, when almost no exhaust note of interest is created, it doesn't sound particularly different.
If you fit a big, loud exhaust and don't like that level road cruising note, well, that's hardly the manufacturers concern is it.

[HOTSV8]

So did you think you were buying one without AFM ? Or didn't you know what you were buying ?

[steve_t]

At the owner's cost? How crap is that?! That'd be like having tyre pressure sensors in the wheels but no dash display and asking the buyer to pay to have the dash display enabled!!
I can't believe that Holden would sell you a car that had AFM without your knowledge! (Or their knowledge!!!) I guess it's a plus for the car given the current greenie movement but you shouldn't be getting something you didn't order.

[scotty350]

Holden released a bulletin to all dealers stating that very early AFM cars did not come with either the AFM badging of the dash display enabled. It can be done, but at the owners cost. Models being built new come with them.
People seem to have a bit of a fear of the unknown with this system.
As it only operates under very light load, when almost no exhaust note of interest is created, it doesn't sound particularly different.
If you fit a big, loud exhaust and don't like that level road cruising note, well, that's hardly the manufacturers concern is it.

Well that's all well & good but our Holden dealer didn't tell me what I was buying, and still says he didn't know it had it and doesn't know about the other 2009 ones on the lot. My problem is I thought I was buying a standard 270 kw SSV and had no idea Holden even had AFM and as far as the exhaust my view is if I have a V8 I like it to sound like one!

[steve_t]

Return the car... though you might have to drive a manual if you want a L98 :goodjob:

[scotty350]

So did you think you were buying one without AFM ? Or didn't you know what you were buying ?

I had no idea that Holden had AFM so thought I was just buying a normal VE SSV 270kw not 260kw AFM.


Return the car... though you might have to drive a manual if you want a L98 :goodjob:

Well if that's what it takes but we'll see what Holden comes back with.

[Toddler78]

theres just no pleasing some people

[diabolic]

theres just no pleasing some people
hehe :)

If it's that much of an issue, have it disabled when you get it tuned. I'm sure that can be done.

Dan

[snappy]

really depends what your after i suppose save 100 -150dollars a year or a bit of extra performance.
Bear in mind in recent tests afm afm is 1 sec slower in 0-100kmph
from memory it does 0-100kmph in 6.4 sec
personally i would spend more than $100-$150 dollars a year to gain that secnds in acceleration . actually you pay $500 extra for afm over the old auto's so your actually costing you more . (That is at rrp )

[Ghia351]

Are there any non-AFM VE's built in 2009?

[clubbie]

Are there any non-AFM VE's built in 2009?

Every manual car has a L98 which is non-AFM....so yes they are out there.

[Wonky]

You obviously weren't reading the posts on here! :( A quick search showed 2 threads at least from late 2008 in which it was mentioned that all A6 VE V8s built in 2009 would have AFM. For example Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=110964)

I knew from when I ordered my car in mid December (and finally picked up on Saturday) that it would have AFM but it can easily be turned off in the tune. You should be thankful you have no AFM badges because they're fugly!! :spew:

[6.2L.Club]

Are there any non-AFM VE's built in 2009?


Yup, mine aint, thank GOD :bow:

[VT_Lance]

You obviously weren't reading the posts on here! :( A quick search showed 2 threads at least from late 2008 in which it was mentioned that all A6 VE V8s built in 2009 would have AFM. For example http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=110964

I knew from when I ordered my car in mid December (and finally picked up on Saturday) that it would have AFM but it can easily be turned off in the tune. You should be thankful you have no AFM badges because they're fugly!! :spew:

they are big green afm badges on the side really ugly and stand out a lot

[scotty350]

You obviously weren't reading the posts on here! :( A quick search showed 2 threads at least from late 2008 in which it was mentioned that all A6 VE V8s built in 2009 would have AFM. For example http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=110964

I knew from when I ordered my car in mid December (and finally picked up on Saturday) that it would have AFM but it can easily be turned off in the tune. You should be thankful you have no AFM badges because they're fugly!! :spew:

Well good for you! :bow:

[vzss05]

Well good for you! :bow:

No need to be a smartasrse mate, I dont see what the big deal is

[Pickles]

My thought on this topic would be that the buyer should know the exact specs of the car he wants, & make sure he gets it.
So, I would expect the buyer to be aware of AFM, before he ordered the vehicle, & as it is a new development, & the car was to be an auto, I would expect that it would be something that would be discussed during the selling process.
Having said that, if I did know about it, then I'd be making sure I got a car with appropriate badging etc etc....I wouldn't be happy if the car I was given didn't have all the "production" items associated with AFM.
If I wasn't aware of AFM, & then, after delivery, discovered that my car didn't have the items mentioned, I would not be happy.
Perhaps the dealer should have told him about the AFM items not on this particular car to make sure he was ok with it..ie, in terms of Davo's info with respect to the dealer Bulletin, perhaps this should have been mentioned.
Cheers, Pickles.

[steve_t]

My thought on this topic would be that the buyer should know the exact specs of the car he wants, & make sure he gets it.
So, I would expect the buyer to be aware of AFM, before he ordered the vehicle, & as it is a new development, & the car was to be an auto, I would expect that it would be something that would be discussed during the selling process.
Having said that, if I did know about it, then I'd be making sure I got a car with appropriate badging etc etc....I wouldn't be happy if the car I was given didn't have all the "production" items associated with AFM.
If I wasn't aware of AFM, & then, after delivery, discovered that my car didn't have the items mentioned, I would not be happy.
Perhaps the dealer should have told him about the AFM items not on this particular car to make sure he was ok with it..ie, in terms of Davo's info with respect to the dealer Bulletin, perhaps this should have been mentioned.
Cheers, Pickles.

+1 however, my biggest peeve would be that the dash doesn't display what it's supposed to and that the OP would have to pay to have it activated. WTF? Like I said, how would you like it if they gave you tyre pressure sensors but told you that you'd have to pay to have the pressure readouts display on the dash?! I mean, hooray, they gave you some extra technology without telling you but you need to be told these things up front!
I don't think anyone is too worried about the badging cos it's pretty fugly but it'd be nice to be told...

The main issue here is INFORMED CONSENT

[Toddler78]

this question is for davo, or anyone else knowledgable, what is involved in turning it on on the dash ie, just tech 2 to activate the software(otherwords just the time spent) or is there actually hardware that needs to be bought and installed?

if it is just a labour only expense of just using tech 2 then I think the dealer should come to the party and turn it on free.

[mac06]

this question is for davo, or anyone else knowledgable, what is involved in turning it on on the dash ie, just tech 2 to activate the software(otherwords just the time spent) or is there actually hardware that needs to be bought and installed?

if it is just a labour only expense of just using tech 2 then I think the dealer should come to the party and turn it on free.

Vehicles can simply be reflashed with the Tech 2 to incorporate the AFM information being displayed on the instrument cluster. I'm sure the dealer could do this gratis and even supply the AFM badges if anyone really wants them.

[Wonky]

I'm sure the dealer could do this gratis and even supply the AFM badges if anyone really wants them.

Even though he's trying to be a smartar$e he can have my AFM badges! They're coming off ASAP. :spew:

[LS1HVN]

Vehicles can simply be reflashed with the Tech 2 to incorporate the AFM information being displayed on the instrument cluster. I'm sure the dealer could do this gratis and even supply the AFM badges if anyone really wants them.

There is a fee involved with both the purchase of the badges and getting the information to be flashed up on the screen. If you're really lucky though you might have a dealer who has had a customer request the AFM badges be removed at time of delivery so they will have a spare set laying around and if asked nice enough may just give them to you.

[Wonky]

There is a fee involved with both the purchase of the badges and getting the information to be flashed up on the screen. If you're really lucky though you might have a dealer who has had a customer request the AFM badges be removed at time of delivery so they will have a spare set laying around and if asked nice enough may just give them to you.

The badges I can sort of understand as the parts department has to buy them (probably about $30 in total....) but surely in an effort to try to restore a good customer relationship they could use the Tech2 for free to make the necessary adjustments given that their lack of knowledge (which even most on here knew) helped contribute to the problem.

My own dealer used the Tech2 to clear two error codes for me caused by me connecting to a faulty scangauge (i.e. caused by an external factor not of their or the car's doing) and charged me nothing for it.

[planetdavo]

The badges I can sort of understand as the parts department has to buy them (probably about $30 in total....) but surely in an effort to try to restore a good customer relationship they could use the Tech2 for free to make the necessary adjustments given that their lack of knowledge (which even most on here knew) helped contribute to the problem.

My own dealer used the Tech2 to clear two error codes for me caused by me connecting to a faulty scangauge (i.e. caused by an external factor not of their or the car's doing) and charged me nothing for it.
The bulletin doesn't force any dealer to charge for this. It's basically to tell the dealers that if an owner brings the topic up, it will be the customers responsibility to pay for it (or the dealer or someone's pet dog by default), but Holden wont pay anyone back.



Having said that, if I did know about it, then I'd be making sure I got a car with appropriate badging etc etc....I wouldn't be happy if the car I was given didn't have all the "production" items associated with AFM.
If I wasn't aware of AFM, & then, after delivery, discovered that my car didn't have the items mentioned, I would not be happy.
Perhaps the dealer should have told him about the AFM items not on this particular car to make sure he was ok with it..ie, in terms of Davo's info with respect to the dealer Bulletin, perhaps this should have been mentioned.
Cheers, Pickles.
Just passing the info on Martin, not my own personal opinions. I could save myself plenty of cheap shots and back stabbing by not telling anyone anything on this forum. :)

[scotty350]

Well I think they can keep the badges as they dont look the best and just do the cluster display.

[smokeyg]

I have a Feb 09 built SSV with no AFM badges or display.
My dealer said that they could do the display upgrade at they first service if I wanted it. Not interested in the AFM badges though. 6 Litre ones look fine.
I was told by Brad at Enhanced Automotive that the AFM will need to be turned off with a tune if an exhaust is fitted, otherwise they sound shit.

[Wonky]

I have a Feb 09 built SSV with no AFM badges or display.
My dealer said that they could do the display upgrade at they first service if I wanted it. Not interested in the AFM badges though. 6 Litre ones look fine.
I was told by Brad at Enhanced Automotive that the AFM will need to be turned off with a tune if an exhaust is fitted, otherwise they sound shit.
Only sound shit when they go into 4 cyl mode and all you have to do is put your foot down a bit and it will go back to 8 cyl mode as AFM only operates in a very narrow rpm/engine-load band.

[smokeyg]

Yes that's true. Bit hard to tell without a display to tell you when it's in V4 mode, except on a smooth road.

[MNR-0]

Why would you buy a V8 only to run it on 4 cylinders?

The economy argument is crap because you can get excellent economy on a 6 litre with a tune

[Wonky]

Why would you buy a V8 only to run it on 4 cylinders?

The economy argument is crap because you can get excellent economy on a 6 litre with a tune

True, but most people who buy them know nothing about tunes and don't realise it's all just a feelgood marketing con. Mine will be tuned and AFM turned off ASAP.

[planetdavo]

Why would you buy a V8 only to run it on 4 cylinders?

The economy argument is crap because you can get excellent economy on a 6 litre with a tune
Members opinions on this forum are in the minority, compared to the number of vehicles Holden actually sell.
Some people slag off this technology, but it's really little different to what a turbo motor does. When on near zero or very low boost and cruising, they are basically a "smaller" motor. It's only when on higher boost, their theoretical "capacity" is noticeably increased, and they use fuel like a bigger motor, as they are producing the power of a bigger motor.
"Displacement on Demand" anyone? That was, of course, the early name for AFM. :teach:

[VL Executive]

Why cant they (Holden) make AFM an option? Instead of forcing people to have AFM with the V8 automatic models.

V8 Auto with AFM
V8 Auto without AFM - The Buyer chooses whatever they want.

Seems to be that way things are going with new cars these days. You get items / accesories you dont want, but have to take it. If you dont like it, stiff bikkies.

A few examples -

You must have AFM on auto V8 models

You cant have a V8 Berlina

No V6 manual Omegas, or V6 manual on anything except utes and SV6

No V8 Omegas at all

I thought buying a car was about choice! :confused:

[fx160]

i think the best option would be to have it user activated
that way when you are in a trafic jamb you can go to 4 cylinders
just enough to move forward and run the aircon

kev

[Wonky]

i think the best option would be to have it user activated
that way when you are in a trafic jamb you can go to 4 cylinders
just enough to move forward and run the aircon

kev

Unfortunately it doesn't work live that as using 4 cylinders to move such a big, heavy car from rest would be counterproductive. It only works when the car already has momentum up at about 100kmh with very little throttle. As soon as you hit even a slight rise and have to put your foot down to maintain speed or start losing speed it will go back to 8 cylinders.

[ringram]

Do the AFM vehicles also have the cam phaser?
If so then thats good. You can fit an aftermarket cam like the new comp cams phaser cam an get more power over the entire range, no loss down low either due to the ability to alter cam timing on the fly.
If it hasnt got the cam phaser, then yeah you can tune the AFM parameter anyway for more or less economy as you see fit.

[redvxr8clubby]

i think the best option would be to have it user activated
that way when you are in a trafic jamb you can go to 4 cylinders
just enough to move forward and run the aircon

kev
Unfortunately it's not that simple - afm doesn't seem to be effective at all in city traffic, seems like it only comes in at higher speeds (and gears) on light throttle opening. Wheels magazine did run an article on it recently. A bit disappointing it does nothing in urban traffic when consumption is highest, but does have an effect on a trip when consumption is already quite good, but it does improve it. I guess some could be disappointed their V8 is now 260 Kw rather than 270. I figure it would be hard to pick the 3% difference. With the exhaust note thing, I think Holden need to be seen to be impoving the fuel consumpion of their cars, if some buyers aren't happy cause their modded exhaust doesn't sound as good then so be it. As has been said AFM can be turned aftermarket if required, so if you mod your exhaust and don't like the sound, mod the AFM to get it turned off. Cost of progress I guess, yep, can't please all the people all the time. Perhaps could be a good thing if the user could disable it - even if on a trip by trip basis, like traction control etc.

[Ron SS]

Scott350 ...so the problem is that you didn't realise that it has AFM. Well you must be the only "enthusiast" who was not aware that all auto V8s made in 2009 had that feature. So the fuel use is good according to you, but your fear is that a future buyer may not know it has AFM ... well the 8th part of the VIN is a Y ..as you said, surely that is enough proof. Seems the real issue for you is the unknown factor of an exhaust note that may happen if you change the exhaust. Well, choose one that you like. The Yanks have come up with solutions that work with these motors, so expect suppliers here to eventually get it right (took them 18 months with the VE release to get it right though). I have driven one of these cars and couldn't really tell when it had dropped to 4 cylinders, and I think you are lucky not to have the badges ...the old style looks much better. So it has good fuel use, the good badges and apart from the Engineering mode data, it goes okay. I wouldn't want a silly display telling me it has dropped onto 4 cylinders for 2 seconds anyway ..better not have that distracting feature.

As PlanetDavo has said, 99% of buyers would want that feature, so you are appealing to a broader market when you sell it. Stop whingeing, enjoy your ride and next time do your homework.

[scotty350]

Scott350 ...so the problem is that you didn't realise that it has AFM. Well you must be the only "enthusiast" who was not aware that all auto V8s made in 2009 had that feature. So the fuel use is good according to you, but your fear is that a future buyer may not know it has AFM ... well the 8th part of the VIN is a Y ..as you said, surely that is enough proof. Seems the real issue for you is the unknown factor of an exhaust note that may happen if you change the exhaust. Well, choose one that you like. The Yanks have come up with solutions that work with these motors, so expect suppliers here to eventually get it right (took them 18 months with the VE release to get it right though). I have driven one of these cars and couldn't really tell when it had dropped to 4 cylinders, and I think you are lucky not to have the badges ...the old style looks much better. So it has good fuel use, the good badges and apart from the Engineering mode data, it goes okay. I wouldn't want a silly display telling me it has dropped onto 4 cylinders for 2 seconds anyway ..better not have that distracting feature.

As PlanetDavo has said, 99% of buyers would want that feature, so you are appealing to a broader market when you sell it. Stop whingeing, enjoy your ride and next time do your homework.


Well where did I say I was a enthusiast? I dont spend everyday on here telling others that they know everything about everything as I have a life. If you read what I said it was that I had no idea about this AFM or DOD. And as I said neither did the Holden dealer I bought it from. Who the hell do you think you are to tell me to stop whingeing? I bought a car from Holden had no idea about AFM and was wondering if this forum could give me some help. But mostly all I have received are people who like to make themselves seem almighty know it alls. This site seems to shoot people down very quickly.
I traded a VYSS in on a VESSV and because I was expecting a 270kw car that I could put a nice system on like I have had on all my V8s I get this help.
1 Well you must be the only "enthusiast" who was not aware that all auto V8s made in 2009 had that feature.
2 Stop whingeing, enjoy your ride and next time do your homework.
And there are more examples.

If I wanted smartarse comments I would have asked for them.....to those who did offer constructive comments, thank you they are appreciated.

[redvxr8clubby]

So Scott, at the end of the day, you had a VY SS - and bought a new VE SSV - you have no badging on the car for AFM etc. So has your opinion of the way the car drives changed (noticeably less power than another VE SS you may have test driven)? Holden promote AFM as basically seamless to the driver, the wheels roadtester couldn't pick when it was in AFM mode and when it wasn't. Holden says on a very smooth road you might pick the change in mode. At the end of the day you can hit your dealer up to get the display AFM enabled. Otherwise just enjoy what is still a great car, if you do go down the path of a modded exhaust etc, I'm sure members of this forum would like to hear your opinions of AFM on a moded exhaust or if you went down the path of disabling AFM. You could even keep a lookout on this site from with AFM that have changed exhaust etc, you might pick up some handy info for when you do yours. From memory Holden have been promoting AFM or DoD on their website since about last April, albeit with very little detail, no release time etc. I can't believe the dealer had no idea about AFM though.

[planetdavo]

Well where did I say I was a enthusiast? I dont spend everyday on here telling others that they know everything about everything as I have a life. If you read what I said it was that I had no idea about this AFM or DOD.
If I wanted smartarse comments I would have asked for them.....to those who did offer constructive comments, thank you they are appreciated.
Sorry, what was that about "smartarse comments"...? :rolleyes:
You've been a memeber of this forum for three years, yet didn't know that 09 production auto VE's come with AFM? What do you actually do on here when logged on? :confused:

[Wonky]

My KPM 3" system with Pacies and Ballistic cats should be fitted by next weekend so I should be able to tell you what it sounds like, though as I said, if it does sound crap in AFM mode all I'll have to do is speed up, slow down or put my foot down a bit to get it out of AFM mode and then it will be back to "normal".

I'm sure I'll be getting AFM turned off as soon as it is tuned though.

[scotty350]

Thanks Wonky that would be great. Let me know how you get on.

[warrick]

i was under the impression,from a holden mechanic,that there was an option to turn AFM off in the menu yourself?has anyone had a close look in the options menu to see?admittedly he was under the weather a bit when he told me but i didnt think he was that bad.
cheers
warrick

[Wonky]

Not from what I've been told warrick.

[warrick]

yeah i must say i was surprised when he said it.but he seemed very sure.i will ask him again next time i see him & get directions.
cheers
warrick

[Wonky]

Can anyone tell me where AFM mode supposedly comes up on the dash display as I can't see anything anywhere....... :confused: Have read the owner's manual and can't find any reference to AFM and there doesn't seem to be a supplement.

My AFM badges have all been pulled off now and Big Rob at Chev's has something special in mind for them! :lol:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/SSV%20Ute/SSVUte09Apr0409sm.jpg

[HEXEM]

Hi Scotty,

I did a quick search on youtube for the VE Holden V8 running AFM and what an aftermarket exhaust would sound like when its actvie in 'Half Active' mode. All I could find is one for the 08 G8 AFM Demo (US pontiac) built in Aust. It shows someone using the 'engineering mode' do detect when AFM is active and note.

There does not seem to be much difference in exhaust note when it is. As soon as this person driving the car gives it a squirt its sounds like a V8. There is no lag or hesitation in the sound as the car goes from Half to Full Active.

Here is the link if your interested. YouTube - 08 G8 AFM Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV7wvmNyQAI).

I personally don't think your going to notice any awefull sounds (like V8 supercars running their pitlane limiter). If anything it might sound quieter on the highway (which could be a good thing). If the exhaust is quieter when running in 'Half Active' if you have a loud exhaust it might keep the EPA or Police off your case, if you know what I mean.

Just my thoughts...

Cheers,
Phil

P.S. I too would remove the AFM badging and replace with the V8 6ltr side badges and remove the one on the boot lid and put the V badge... But thats me I like the badges... :)

[Wonky]

So from what you say Phil the AFM display only comes up in Engineering mode? That contradicts the OP's post...... :confused:

PS I was tempted to put the 6.0 V8 badges back on like on my sedan but have decided for now I like the cleaner look.

[smokeyg]

I just went out and tried it in engineering mode. The display reads All Active or Half Active when running on 4 cyls.

[Martin_D]

Its weird seeing folks wanting to disable a function that makes these cars better......maybe time to swap some LS1 heads back onto the thing as well :eek:

[planetdavo]

How about a Rochester 4 barrel carby whilst they're at it too, hey Tuna...:lmao:
I agree with your post.

[macca33]

How does AFM make the car better? I think many people simply assume it is GM trying to bring a green tinge to a V8, to appease their detractors.

cheers

[Martin_D]

- Saves on Petrol -

I think thats how it makes it better :)

[HEXEM]

So from what you say Phil the AFM display only comes up in Engineering mode? That contradicts the OP's post...... :confused:

I am not sure Gary. I don't have a car with the AFM to test it out. In my post I was only able to state what I could see in the youtube video. I will be at my local dealer tomorrow, I could ask if you can get a normal display indication when its active if you want me to?. :)

Cheers,

Phil

[Drewie]

If you are going to remove the badges I'd keep the badges for resale, a future buyer might prefer the original look.
Also might raise the question has it had a bingle and the badges not fitted again, I'd put them away for later rather than discard them.

[snappy]

- Saves on Petrol -

I think thats how it makes it better :)


its just a matter of opinion .
If you want it for fuel consumption its better (but if your real worried about fuel you wont by a V8)
If you want it for performance its worse a second slower then the manual for 0-100kph and from all the reviews its slower then the Boss

[Martin_D]

Turning AFM off in the software doesnt make the car faster you know........ :eek:

[snappy]

Turning AFM off in the software doesnt make the car faster you know........ :eek:

No i dont know the tuning side of it . It Just read results and reviews also do a far bit of researching.

From the research i have gathererd you can save $150-$170 dollars a year if most of you km's are highway(70%+) . But this is the kicker afm costs $500 more at rrp then the previous auto so.
From my understanding less performance more cost unless you keep the car for 4 years after that you will start saving .
So explain to me how its better

[Wonky]

I will be at my local dealer tomorrow, I could ask if you can get a normal display indication when its active if you want me to?. :)

Cheers,

Phil

If you wouldn't mind that would be great thanks Phil! :thumbsup:

[BLACKVE]

Interesting to see which workshop gets a cammed VE that still use's AFM, think only baby cams will be the go.

Or a Twin turbo VE that still use's AFM

Interesting times ahead

[Martin_D]

No i dont know the tuning side of it . It Just read results and reviews also do a far bit of researching.

Let me add some data for your research then. On our dyno the AFM cars read near on identical to non-AFM, and tuned they respond in the same way. Here is an AFM pre/after tuned dyno graph -
http://www.ls1turbo.com.au/pics/afmdyno.jpg


From the research i have gathererd you can save $150-$170 dollars a year if most of you km's are highway(70%+) . But this is the kicker afm costs $500 more at rrp then the previous auto so.
From my understanding less performance more cost unless you keep the car for 4 years after that you will start saving .
So explain to me how its better

Interesting to see if its the AFM hardware that makes up the $500 difference in the old vs new auto Commodore. After all they gave it to us for free in the VZ. Maybe its just a new model price rise. These things can and do happen :cool:
Tuned properly there is extra economy to be had with AFM. GM engineering reckon around 5%, which is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, able to be improved even further by a tuner that knows what he/she is doing :)


Or a Twin turbo VE that still use's AFM


This has been done already, and works perfectly :)

AFM is not the evil, its actually not a bad idea :cool:

[planetdavo]

No i dont know the tuning side of it . It Just read results and reviews also do a far bit of researching.

From the research i have gathererd you can save $150-$170 dollars a year if most of you km's are highway(70%+) . But this is the kicker afm costs $500 more at rrp then the previous auto so.
From my understanding less performance more cost unless you keep the car for 4 years after that you will start saving .
So explain to me how its better
Your opinion on this assumes that the car would not have had that price rise if the L98 remained.
If the price went up anyway, as is likely since the Aus dollar dropped a fair bit since those cheaper prices were in, your $150 fuel saving per year actually comes in at no extra cost. :)

[thermos]

They need a Economy / Power button.

[redvxr8clubby]

No i dont know the tuning side of it . It Just read results and reviews also do a far bit of researching.

From the research i have gathererd you can save $150-$170 dollars a year if most of you km's are highway(70%+) . But this is the kicker afm costs $500 more at rrp then the previous auto so.
From my understanding less performance more cost unless you keep the car for 4 years after that you will start saving .
So explain to me how its better

I don't think the $500 is for AFM - Holden prices have gone up - there is still a $2000 difference between a manual and an auto. If price of AFM cars was up due to fitting of AFM I think the price difference between manual and auto would have changed. Also noticed price of accessories has been jacked up too - eg spare alloy wheel was $250 now $350, metallic paint was $400 now $500. 25% hike for the paint, about 40% increase for the spare wheel.

[snappy]

The pricing has changed when i looked at it a few months ago the auto was $500 dollars more than normal and $2500 more than the manual and about 2k cheaper than it is now .

[mac06]

So from what you say Phil the AFM display only comes up in Engineering mode? That contradicts the OP's post...... :confused:

PS I was tempted to put the 6.0 V8 badges back on like on my sedan but have decided for now I like the cleaner look.

The AFM display is from March production onwards, but can be reflashed on earlier 2009 models. It is displayed underneath the "Instant Fuel Consumption" in the centre cluster on SS and SS-V and in the right-hand cluster window under "Range" in the Calais and Caprice.

[Wonky]

The AFM display is from March production onwards, but can be reflashed on earlier 2009 models. It is displayed underneath the "Instant Fuel Consumption" in the centre cluster on SS and SS-V and in the right-hand cluster window under "Range" in the Calais and Caprice.

My SSV is March 09 but doesn't have it on normal display. I assume given you mention "Instant Fuel Consumption" that we are still talking Engineering mode therefore as that's the only way I know to get it on single window dashes such as SS/SSV....... :confused:

[mac06]

My SSV is March 09 but doesn't have it on normal display. I assume given you mention "Instant Fuel Consumption" that we are still talking Engineering mode therefore as that's the only way I know to get it on single window dashes such as SS/SSV....... :confused:

If your SSV is March 09 it should already have it on your display. Perhaps it's just not turned on? Go into the "customisation" menu, scroll down to "trip computer" enter, then scroll down to "cylinder mode" enter, then select "on". Try that and see how you go. It will show up on normal display, not just engineering mode.

[Wonky]

If your SSV is March 09 it should already have it on your display. Perhaps it's just not turned on? Go into the "customisation" menu, scroll down to "trip computer" enter, then scroll down to "cylinder mode" enter, then select "on". Try that and see how you go. It will show up on normal display, not just engineering mode.

Ah, OK, thanks mac. :goodjob:

[Evman]

They need a Economy / Power button.

If you mean a switchable mode where power doesn't allow AFM to be turned on but economy does, I'm sure any tuner can organise this anyway :)

[steve_t]

Could a tuner make it so if the car was idling in "N", the AFM would be active, but as soon as you put it in "D" it would go back to 8 cylinders?
Probably not too long before all cars get the new start-stop technology anyway but thought I might ask :)

[Wonky]

Thanks Wonky that would be great. Let me know how you get on.

I can hear a slight change in exhaust note when it drops back to 4 cylinders but it's certainly not drastic and doesn't sound terrible. Admittedly my new system will probably get louder and deeper as it carbons up but I still can't see it becoming a problem.


If your SSV is March 09 it should already have it on your display. Perhaps it's just not turned on? Go into the "customisation" menu, scroll down to "trip computer" enter, then scroll down to "cylinder mode" enter, then select "on". Try that and see how you go. It will show up on normal display, not just engineering mode.

I was sure my build date was early March (will have to get someone to double check for me later today) but no option for that under trip computer on mine......... :confused:

["V"]

Could someone post a pic of the display when 4 CYC mode is active? Im curious of what it looks like :)

[macca_779]

Could a tuner make it so if the car was idling in "N", the AFM would be active, but as soon as you put it in "D" it would go back to 8 cylinders?
Probably not too long before all cars get the new start-stop technology anyway but thought I might ask :)

I don't believe that can be done with the tuning parameters we have available.. Sifting through an E38 tune file I can only see AFM enablers/disablers for in gear conditions.

[steve_t]

I don't believe that can be done with the tuning parameters we have available.. Sifting through an E38 tune file I can only see AFM enablers/disablers for in gear conditions.

Cheers for that Macca :goodjob: Just thought it would be an interesting prospect

[mac06]

I was sure my build date was early March (will have to get someone to double check for me later today) but no option for that under trip computer on mine......... :confused:

Sounds wierd. If you have the AFM badges you should have the option in the customisation menu too. Following are some pictures of what it should look like and where you will find it on the trip computer. If you haven't got it then get it checked out at your dealer. It can be added in if you want it.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa35/mac06_07/AFMindication001.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa35/mac06_07/AFMindication002.jpg

[Wonky]

Sounds wierd. If you have the AFM badges you should have the option in the customisation menu too. Following are some pictures of what it should look like and where you will find it on the trip computer. If you haven't got it then get it checked out at your dealer. It can be added in if you want it.

Thanks mac. Strangely it would seem, even though I have the AFM badges I don't have that option under trip computer. Even had SenatorMike double check I wasn't somehow missing it. My trip computer options jump from Rest Reminder straight to Night Panel.

[fishla]

First post! :xmas:

Good thread.

Ordering a VE SS (AFM) next week.

Funnily enough the one i test drove had no AFM badges, but did have the display options on the menu.

Cheers,
Fish

[Wonky]

Funnily enough the one i test drove had no AFM badges, but did have the display options on the menu.

Eek!! Now I'm really :confused:!!

Welcome Fish! :)

[Aussie Pete]

Mine is a 2008, from memory Oct build. It has Active Fuel management in the engineering menu but I tried it today including M4 in Sydney but the display always stays to 'All Active' which I guess is a thankful sign I have the full 270kW! It seems there is the usual configuration control overlaps in car software.

[Wonky]

Mine is a 2008, from memory Oct build. It has Active Fuel management in the engineering menu but I tried it today including M4 in Sydney but the display always stays to 'All Active' which I guess is a thankful sign I have the full 270kW! It seems there is the usual configuration control overlaps in car software.

Definitely!! AFM only on 2009 built A6s.

[NonSense]

We have a Auto SSV with AFM at work fitted up with the Walkinshaw cat back system.

You wont care if your dash displays how many cylinder's your running you will hear the change.
Its like light and day, they drone really bad while in 4cyl mode.

I would stick to an original Exhaust.... i could opnly imagine what 3" would sound like :(
Need some time of Bi-Modul Exhaust.

[Wonky]

We have a Auto SSV with AFM at work fitted up with the Walkinshaw cat back system.

You wont care if your dash displays how many cylinder's your running you will hear the change.
Its like light and day, they drone really bad while in 4cyl mode.

I would stick to an original Exhaust.... i could opnly imagine what 3" would sound like :(
Need some time of Bi-Modul Exhaust.

I have an AFM SSV ute with 1 7/8" Pacies, 100 cpsi Ballistic cats and 3" KPM s/s system and you can certainly pick when it goes into 4 cyl mode due to unevenness (slightly more vibration), but absolutely no drone!

My wife was in it for the first time in cruise mode the other day since the exhaust went on and given my lack of speech couldn't understand my efforts to ask her can you feel that? Even on the way back after explaining it to her she still couldn't tell! She used to be fairly good on those sort of things but with every thing else on her mind these days has obviously lost it.

Bottom line: Even with my full 3" system it doesn't drone in 4 cyl mode and some people won't even pick it! It does soon become annoying to me though....... :(

[Aussie Pete]

Definitely!! AFM only on 2009 built A6s.

I was just referring the the software - seems there's at least three iterations running around in display software. I don't care about fuel so AFM isn't a big one for me. Having a look at some of the issues the L76 VZ guys have had I'm happy I got in in time and sourced an L98 car.

[macca_779]

I have an AFM SSV ute with 1 7/8" Pacies, 100 cpsi Ballistic cats and 3" KPM s/s system and you can certainly pick when it goes into 4 cyl mode due to unevenness (slightly more vibration), but absolutely no drone!

My wife was in it for the first time in cruise mode the other day since the exhaust went on and given my lack of speech couldn't understand my efforts to ask her can you feel that? Even on the way back after explaining it to her she still couldn't tell! She used to be fairly good on those sort of things but with every thing else on her mind these days has obviously lost it.

Bottom line: Even with my full 3" system it doesn't drone in 4 cyl mode and some people won't even pick it! It does soon become annoying to me though....... :(


Will take 90 seconds for Chevo to turn it off Wonk.

[Wonky]

Will take 90 seconds for Chevo to turn it off Wonk.

Yep, Thu week when he fits my lovely new OTR and tunes it for me. I can hang out till then! :)

[snappy]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/29816/v8-shootout-ford-falcon-xr8-vs-holden-commodore-ss/

[shakows]

Interesting results.

The SS only made 205 RWKW (250 at the fly)

Is this Normal on AFM model's? I was expecting a bit more

[Wonky]

Interesting results.

The SS only made 205 RWKW (250 at the fly)

Is this Normal on AFM model's? I was expecting a bit more

My AFM auto with 800km on it did a best run of 201.6rwkw...... :( See http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=1478473&#post1478473

Mind you my previous SSV A6 sedan probably started out similarly low but unfortunately the sponsors I used to use before Chev's never did a before run before fitting my HSV extractors and 3" catback. :mad: However, I can say that with their MAF tune, a pod filter, HSV extractors and 3" catback it couldn't even make 220rwkw on Chev's dyno, hence my guess that it started similarly low.

Changed to Chev, he retuned it, over time added OTR and Pacies and it ended up 264rwkw!

[SprogtaSSV]

If you get an after market exhaust and it drones in Afm mode,drive the car in manual mode afm is innoperable in manual gear select. My ssv of march build also had no afm badges or any indication of it I too had to check to make sure it had it(I wanted it).

[SprogtaSSV]

This is not actually possible without compromising nvh levels. Hence the reason this is not an option for manual vehicles. Afm is active in third through sixth gear on a increasing level through the gears whereas third uses afm the least an sixth utilses it the most. Anything over toughly 3000rpm will switch off afm as will driving the car in active select mode.

[Roonstain]

AFM can kick in in active select sometimes

It is all based on load and vacuum - and with EFI Live, you can command AFM to kick in under different circumstances - I had this done with my first mafless tune on my SSV.

With EFI Live, you can even command the car to run on 6 cylinders whilst the laptop is connected!

I could have AFM kick in with the stock tune at 40km/h around town - with an aftermarket exhaust, it was annoying!!!

AFM is a good thing for the average Holden auto buyer - saves a bit of money (especially for the hwy drivers).
But for many on this forum (we are the minority in the grand scheme of things) AFM isn't the best idea ever - I had fun seeing what I could get out of the AFM with my car - returned some astonishing economy when asked.
But now I much prefer the car in its current for - no more AFM, and 323.3rwkw through the auto!

[Wonky]

No drone in AFM mode with my full KPM 3" system (1 7/8" Pacies and Ballistic cats). I could tell from the exhaust note when it changed to AFM mode but my wife couldn't!

[SprogtaSSV]

AFM can kick in in active select sometimes

It is all based on load and vacuum - and with EFI Live, you can command AFM to kick in under different circumstances - I had this done with my first mafless tune on my SSV.

With EFI Live, you can even command the car to run on 6 cylinders whilst the laptop is connected!

I could have AFM kick in with the stock tune at 40km/h around town - with an aftermarket exhaust, it was annoying!!!

AFM is a good thing for the average Holden auto buyer - saves a bit of money (especially for the hwy drivers).
But for many on this forum (we are the minority in the grand scheme of things) AFM isn't the best idea ever - I had fun seeing what I could get out of the AFM with my car - returned some astonishing economy when asked.
But now I much prefer the car in its current for - no more AFM, and 323.3rwkw through the auto!

AFM is prevented fromm activating in active select due to NVH issues. you can see this by driving in engineering mode all cylinders will remain active.

[Roonstain]

AFM is prevented fromm activating in active select due to NVH issues. you can see this by driving in engineering mode all cylinders will remain active.
With the stock holden tune, i did have AFM kick in whilst in active select
It wasn't often - but it definitely did happen - I didn't have to be in engineering mode, as with an aftermarket catback, you could hear the difference

[fishla]

Kicked in for me - 4th gear first time ever in active select mode, last week.

[bladerunner]

same here ,5th gear 100kmh along the highway

[SSVWagon]

My Feb '09 SSV has no AFM badges, but the selling dealer offered to flash the computer to activate it, so I get the 4 / 8 cylinder mode display on the dash and a faint fluttery feeling through the steering wheel and pedals when it runs on 4 !

[Plenty]

Does anyone know the exact way to tech 2 flash this into the car? Had my 15k service done today and the service guy's knew nothing of it, then again he couldn't even work out how to unlock the car once inside.
If there is a Holden Bulletin could someone please point me in the right direction so i can walk in and say here, this is how to do it!

Thanks guys

[Wonky]

.......then again he couldn't even work out how to unlock the car once inside.

:eek: :lmao:

[wikky]

^^^ :lmao: Even more so when he realised he'd hopped in the boot, then said "Tech 2?.......... Aren't they the new boy band from Ireland?.....

[fishla]

Does anyone know the exact way to tech 2 flash this into the car? Had my 15k service done today and the service guy's knew nothing of it, then again he couldn't even work out how to unlock the car once inside.
If there is a Holden Bulletin could someone please point me in the right direction so i can walk in and say here, this is how to do it!

Thanks guys

Being a MY9.5 you should definitely have AFM enabled from factory. It also shoud've come with AFM badging if it's auto. Is it auto isn't it??

Cheers
Andy

[Plenty]

Being a MY9.5 you should definitely have AFM enabled from factory. It also shoud've come with AFM badging if it's auto. Is it auto isn't it??

Cheers
Andy

Sorry maybe you misunderstood me, it is an MY9.5 Auto with AFM i just went in today when it was serviced knowing that people on here said it was possible to get the dash indicator light turned on in the 9.5 built cars.

[mac06]

The only vehicles that didn't have the indicator on the dash and the AFM badges were in the first few months of 2009. From April 2009 it they were standard. What compliance date is your car? It will show up on the dash in the mode after distance to empty (range).

[Plenty]

The only vehicles that didn't have the indicator on the dash and the AFM badges were in the first few months of 2009. From April 2009 it they were standard. What compliance date is your car? It will show up on the dash in the mode after distance to empty (range).


Yeah car was built April 09, the only indicator i have is in engineering mode.

[fishla]

Yeah car was built April 09, the only indicator i have is in engineering mode.

Hrmmm, must've been one of the last ones.
I think Wonky's ute was April 09??

No big deal though, just ask the dealer (nicely) if they will enable the display for you. Should only take them 10-20mins Just says 8cyl mode or 4cyl mode when active.


Cheers,
Andy

[Wonky]

Mine was built Mar 09 and had the badges but not the dash display.

[Plenty]

Hrmmm, must've been one of the last ones.
I think Wonky's ute was April 09??

No big deal though, just ask the dealer (nicely) if they will enable the display for you. Should only take them 10-20mins Just says 8cyl mode or 4cyl mode when active.


Cheers,
Andy

haha that is the problem the service tech and manager looked bemused when i hinted at the ability for them to enable it!
They really had no idea so that when i thought if someone knew here how to actually do it i could take the instructions to them!

[Plenty]

Mine was built Mar 09 and had the badges but not the dash display.

Mine was built April 09 with badges but no indication on screen

[SSVWagon]

... and mine has the indication on the screen, but no badges.

Also, as it had AFM flashed afterwards; NOT from the factory, it does not have the flexible section in the exhaust system to absorb the flutter when on 4 cyl. Later 09.5 and MY10 cars of course have the revised exhaust system.

Thinking of getting mine returned to non-AFM spec to make it smoother on the freeway !

[fishla]

haha that is the problem the service tech and manager looked bemused when i hinted at the ability for them to enable it!
They really had no idea so that when i thought if someone knew here how to actually do it i could take the instructions to them!

I'm not sure of your exact location in WA, but can you take it to another dealer?

Just for ref. mine is MAY09 build with AFM badges and dash display.
But didn't come with the flexible exhaust section (has been changed to an aftermarket system now anyway).

Let us know how you go, Plenty!

PS Just out of curiousity, does you car have the white speedo with red needles or all red? Mine are white with the red needles.

Could have something to do with it?? Regardless, they (Holden) are still able to flash it

Cheers
Andy

[Plenty]

I'm not sure of your exact location in WA, but can you take it to another dealer?

Just for ref. mine is MAY09 build with AFM badges and dash display.
But didn't come with the flexible exhaust section (has been changed to an aftermarket system now anyway).

Let us know how you go, Plenty!

PS Just out of curiousity, does you car have the white speedo with red needles or all red? Mine are white with the red needles.

Could have something to do with it?? Regardless, they (Holden) are still able to flash it

Cheers
Andy


It has the Blue speedo with white needles and lights, tried Brian Gardner they are useless will try elsewhere, thanks anyway

[fishla]

Sorry, i think all SSV's had the white needles.

You have white speedo numbers, which indicates the newer dash (previous was red).

Good luck!

[Wonky]

My SSV sedan had red numbers but the ute has white - much, much better!!

[Plenty]

My SSV sedan had red numbers but the ute has white - much, much better!!

Agreed, Still too much red lighting though! :spew:

[Bingo BIlly]

But have we actually noticed any better fuel economy? Im thinking of upgrading soon to AFM.

[SLugg]

I had no idea that Holden had AFM so thought I was just buying a normal VE SSV 270kw not 260kw AFM.



you new to holdens are you ? , AFM talk has been around for yonks . Did you research the car ? , had you talked to most people on here they would have told you the autos now are AFM ...
thats why forums invented the search button , or theres always google

[Wonky]

But have we actually noticed any better fuel economy? Im thinking of upgrading soon to AFM.

Yes, and in your area Oztrack is getting phenomenal economy and power from AFM vehicles with exhaust, OTR and tune. See his sponsor's section.

[fishla]

Economy depends on how you drive it, really.

I do a freeway drive to work, so it's actually a bit better than my previous car VE MY08 SV6!! Can get 500kms from a tank with no heavy pedaling ;)

[Roonstain]

Yes, and in your area Oztrack is getting phenomenal economy and power from AFM vehicles with exhaust, OTR and tune. See his sponsor's section.
I can vouch for this because I experienced it personally - i got 6.3L/100kms heading north on picton road, and would be very low 7s on most trips on that were mainly freeway
Never dynoed it in that form though....would have been healthy i reckon!

[BLUESSV]

I've read on plenty of threads in Aus and USA that they have been developing a revised DOD lifter that rectifies the cold start up ticking. One of the threads stated the revised lifters would be available in the 4th quarter of 2009, however another stated that the lifters had been delayed and wouldn't be available until Feb-Mar 2010.

Has anyone heard the current status of these revised and improved DOD lifters? Are they available yet? If so, has anyone had them installed under warranty and found they are better/worse?

[Wonky]

I never noticed my AFM lifters being noisy before they were replaced last month as all the AFM gear was removed for cam upgrade.