Ls1 Twin turbo or LS3 Cammed

[Adsvxss]

Hi all.
Am just thinking about the better option to do when the time comes.
I sold my ss and am looking for a monaro. Once purchaced i want to to a decent power upgrade.

Looking at a cv8z (manual only). Would it be better to twin turbo the ls1, or drop in a LS3 with cam. Looking at power around 340-360 rwkw.

The pricing is roughly the same, around 15k drive-in drive-out.

What would be quicker?, which one would be faster?, and which one would be more exiting to drive?.
Car will only be a weekender so fuel usage dont matter.

Your opinions would be great as im stuck on the fence no sure whick way to go.

Thanks

[Clubb'N]

twin turbo would yeild alot more power depends if u want n/a or fi ... a single turbo setup will get u your power output

[MTC]

Cammed LS3 all the way:bow::bow:

[Ewok]

You'd have to learn how to drive a car on boost though if you havn't already, its a lot different to power-down from something linear like a V8. For a turbo V8 though I wouldn't imagine there would be a huge learning curve though as you already have good powerdown from start, just you get the extra "go" when the boost comes on. Can't say for sure with the V8's as the only turbo's I have driven so far are 4's and 6's (4's you notice it greatly, 6's a fair bit also but not as much, depends on how much boost really). If you want power all the time when you put your foot down without having to juggle revs for boost, the cam option would be better imo, but if you don't mind giving a courteous headstart thanks to spool and want an awesome rush, go the turbo (and a decent sized one at that heh). 3rd option though, could go for something like a supercharger in which case power pretty much all the time and a bit more linear. Anyone else?

[troytroy]

The twin turbo will give you truck loads of effortless mid to top-range torque.

The LS3 will be a rawer experience which will force you to row through the gears a little more, but will probably sound better

Twin turbo has more power potential if you want more.

[KCB50L]

Twin turboed cammed LS3?

[Ewok]

Twin turboed cammed LS3?

DO IT !!!!!!

[KCB50L]

DO IT !!!!!!

You paying for it?

[Evman]

L98 + single turbo should be about 15g I'd have thought... There's not much power gain from choosing an LS3 over the L98. Doesn't justify the price hike. LS3 will get a lot more credit though :)

[Ewok]

You paying for it?

Worthy cause! fund raise it ...............

[Adsvxss]

Twin turboed cammed LS3?

That would be nice but the budget wont stretch for that.

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming.:goodjob:

Another thing is if i go the option of the cammed ls3. Later down the track if i need more can always add FI. But i am not sure on the turbo being able to be mated to an ls3 cheaply if the ls1 goes 'BOOM'.....:confused:

I had a look at the drag times and still wondering whick would give better times at the strip.

[S2VYSS]

I would say the cammed LS3 as there is more potential for further mods down the track. If you were to fit a cam that also suited FI in the LS3, you have the option when your cash flow recovers again to upgrade your power again. You also have to remember, the LS3 has better heads and a larger capacity then the LS1, so you are also going to make more pwoer in the long run from the LS3

Talk to Autotechnique mate, as they can help you out with the LS3 conversion and help with a cam that will make power now and suit FI later down the track

[Ewok]

Better 60ft time on N/A as opposed to FI I would think (turbo, not S/C)? Unless you are able to stall up and stay on boost when you launch :) Pretty hard to do ... get antilag ecu hehe

[Adsvxss]

L98 + single turbo should be about 15g I'd have thought... There's not much power gain from choosing an LS3 over the L98. Doesn't justify the price hike. LS3 will get a lot more credit though :)


Thats not such a bad idea..

People have been raving bout the ls3 and the torque is sooo much better than the ls2 and other 6L.

Super charger's are a bit noisy for me. Dont think i could handle the whine.. If they made a quiet PD charger id go that route with FI, I also am very partial to N/A as if looking under the bonnet it can all look very stock...till you drive it.:nyuk:


I just dont know.....................:confused:

[255-LS1]

id go L98 over LS3, the extra $$$$ for the extra cubes is not really worth it. Spend on turbo kit for L98

[S2VYSS]

That would be nice but the budget wont stretch for that.

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming.:goodjob:

Another thing is if i go the option of the cammed ls3. Later down the track if i need more can always add FI. But i am not sure on the turbo being able to be mated to an ls3 cheaply if the ls1 goes 'BOOM'.....:confused:

I had a look at the drag times and still wondering whick would give better times at the strip.

This post wasnt up when I replied, so my post looks stupid underneath now :lol:

[Evman]

The HTV2300 is pretty quiet apparently. Still haven't heard one myself so can't say I know it is. However (and again, apparently) it's risky putting it on a stock 6L and smaller engine. Plus it's pricey. All depends on the power delivery ya want mate. I do most of my driving 3500rpm and below personally.

[markone2]

I had a look at the drag times and still wondering whick would give better times at the strip.

Thats all going to depend on car setup...however in my limited experince of finding the odd TT in the staging lanes , the TT requires a good 60rwkw over and above the NA power level to hold sight of the NA cars rear bumper....or in Laymans terms....weight for weight I have not been beaten over the 1/4 mile by a TT...yet :bow: an its certainly not for the want of TT owners trying


.On the other hand. a well setup 1780KG Cam only L98 WILL run 10's on pump gas ...without stripping the bejesus out of it . :)


Just my take

.

[CarlFST60L]

Here's my list of pro's and con's

Pro's for Turbo's
- Off boost, drives 100% stock, anyone can drive it, anytime, anywhere
- Quite as a mouse if you want it to be, quite like stock if really want
- Approved setup's available
- Awesome power
- Roll on over 100km/h, these are pretty much unbeatable depending on how far you are willing to push the boost

Con's for Turbo's
- If you are able to drive a car hard, and an mean hard like circuit work, stay away from your turbo unless you willing to chuck money at it to deal with the various issues of producing so much power out of a street car
- You need to make sure you tuner is right on the money if you want your car to last, its very important to have a top quality tune
- A little harder to drive at the limit during boost transition
- Mod's start getting expensive when you start looking at whats required to really make a good reliable package, everything from surge tanks, injectors, fuel pumps and regulators, boost controllers, cooling requirements for most of the fluids in the car, labor and time to get it all done...

Pro's for Cam'd LS3
- Awesome linear power delivery
- Super predictable and easy to drive at the limit
- Awesome sound, rumble and rock
- IMO, unbeatable for 0-100 sprint, even over a turbo, talking factory street tyres.
- ~340kwrw Cam'd LS3 is all you need for the limit of traction below 120km/h.
- Reliable for track work as long as you look after it
- Room for more work if you want a bit more power
- Possibly quicker to 100km/h than a turbo ls1 (debatable, i know).
- Engine will pretty well last forever

Con's for Cam'd LS3 (some of these things people like, some don't)
- Generally noisy
- rough idle
- Slight pig root at idle in a manual with a clutch, not major, but not always nice
- Not really that nice to drive with friends/family/kids/business people in the car, wont have this problem in a turbo, silky smooth
- You may find the LS3 setup quicker to 100km/h, but roll on with the turbo over 100km/h, and it will come down to what power your willing to push through the LS1 turbo as to who walks away...

You really need to weigh up what you want for your application..

I am considering TT for my next setup just based on it being quite, stock drivablity off boost, and I wont use the power enough to require all the 'other things' required to make it a track weapon. For now I am happy with the aggression of my 300kwrw Cam'd LS2 which can run low 12's as it drives every day to work, 19's and factory tyres with out a problem in nearly 3 years with various track days, drag days, skidpan days etc

[Adsvxss]

Thanks CarlFST60L, very informative...:bow:

With that i will look more into an engine change and staying N/A.
As it is more a road car than anything else, rolling on over 100km/h cant really be done many places, well not to really stretch its legs..

Just wondering what you meant with it not being real nice to drive with people in the car.. Others with cams reckon they drive close to stock. More comments on this would be good.

Thanks to all for their input as i will look into the N/A engine conversion when the time comes.:goodjob:

It was strange to me that the TT cars would be beaten by N/A in most areas before speeds get well into three digits..

[lee ls1]

If it was me doing it mate, i would be fitting a LS3 with a nice TQ cam, CNC heads and 3.91 diff, with a harrop tru-trac diff :banana:, oh and if you have a V8 you need it to sound like one :goodjob:

[CarlFST60L]

Thanks CarlFST60L, very informative...:bow:

Just wondering what you meant with it not being real nice to drive with people in the car.. Others with cams reckon they drive close to stock. More comments on this would be good.

It really comes down to personal opinion when it comes to people saying 'drives close to stock'.

Regardless of how good the tune is, a 340kwrw Cam'd car will rock at idle, it will pig root slightly at low rpm under minimal load, the CAM will be noticeable. With the Turbo setups, you honestly wouldn't know the car is modified until you press the go peddle. I'm not saying a decent CAM is unbearable, its just noticeable. I was cruising around in a tune only Senator the other day, it was so smooth compared to my R8, then I had a guy driving my R8 and I noticed how aggressive the car is, and how harsh the clutch is compared to stock.

The only reason I didn't go down the TT route with my R8 was the cost, it was about double the price of a TT setup over a CAM setup.

[SHANESVZSS]

hey mate.. i was in the same situation as you are in , i opted to go the LS3 with cam , diff , stall ect ect.. and i could be happier , its nice and lumpy sound aggressive (depending if you like it lumpy ect) ive also seen a heaps of cammed LS3's that sound nice and gentle till you nail it..all that comes down to the the tune in that regards tho.. i went for a ride in a turbo 8 and it went hard also , but for MY personal preference i rather the cammed ls3 , power is predicable as said before , dont have to worry about trying to find boost or being cought off boost , the turbo is however very smooth and extremly quick from rolling start..then again would you even worry about being cought off boost when you still have 8 cylenders to back u up?? appose to 4 or 6..

[Oztrack Tuning]

I havent read all the thread.
But my view would be the Turbos are nice on an LS1

BUT

an LS3 with a smartly chosen cam, BIG primary extractors and the new FAST thats coming out next month will make good power and be reliable enough to be flogged around a race track all day. On the dyno we use 340rwkw would be real in a M6 and a moderate streetable cam, and maybe better with some CNC'd L92 heads.

[SHANESVZSS]

also depends on how many ks are on the clock fo of the monaro , personaly i would bother getting a new engine if its relativly low k'd

[duke5700]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but how bout a stroker while the engine is out. L98 with say an eagle 4" crank with rods and pistons to suit. I'm not sure what kind of power would be available but I'm guessing alot. Tames a larger cam aswell.

[CrazyLS1_85]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but how bout a stroker while the engine is out. L98 with say an eagle 4" crank with rods and pistons to suit. I'm not sure what kind of power would be available but I'm guessing alot. Tames a larger cam aswell.

Cheaper option would be to stroke the LS1 to 383ci. Why bother with L98, LS3 etc?

[NickS]

Cheaper option would be to stroke the LS1 to 383ci. Why bother with L98, LS3 etc?

I've had both ... a cammed LS3 shits all over a stroked LS1.

:yup:

[markone2]

I've had both ... a cammed LS3 shits all over a stroked LS1.

:yup:

Yo :) me too, but might I also add that both a decent sized cammed 6L and 5.7 L ...shits all over a 383 .

.

[Adsvxss]

also depends on how many ks are on the clock fo of the monaro , personaly i would bother getting a new engine if its relativly low k'd

Yeah i know its not a need if it has low ks, but for the price of head and caming a ls1 and getting 290 odd rwkw as opposed to spending a little more and getting an ls3 or 6L with a cam and getting 330-340 rwkw quite easy. Cause i know i will want more down the track and trying to find the cheapest way to do it.

[duke5700]

Cheaper option would be to stroke the LS1 to 383ci. Why bother with L98, LS3 etc?

Much better heads. 402ci and a decent bump stick with plenty of lift and a high 220's to mid 230's and a wider LSA to spread the torque would be a good circle track engine with what 350 or more rwkw possibly thats why.

[Madmik]

Didn't get as far as the TT, Was looking at modding the be-jesus out of the LS1 then thought why not go new with standard stroked bottom end!! Looked into LS3 and will run Current cam 224/228 114 LSA. Looking at getting this done at end of year Nov-Dec also throwing M6 in behind it. Auto's are beginning to bug me. Once done i'll post up some Clips/Pics/Sound Files.
Does this sound o.k??

[WLDLS1]

adam dont waste time and money on a tt ls1 or a 383 stroker these days. go the LS3 OR L98.

LS3 would be my choice if i had the dollars but im looking to L98 for mine.

[bad88u]

adam dont waste time and money on a tt ls1 or a 383 stroker these days. go the LS3 OR L98.

LS3 would be my choice if i had the dollars but im looking to L98 for mine.

do ls1 241 ported heads fit on a l98?

[duke5700]

do ls1 241 ported heads fit on a l98?

You wouldn't bother mate, unless you had 10k invested in a set of heads the factory L98 offerings flow as much as some aftermarket LS1 241 esk heads. It only gets better with some good CNC work.

[bad88u]

You wouldn't bother mate, unless you had 10k invested in a set of heads the factory L98 offerings flow as much as some aftermarket LS1 241 esk heads. It only gets better with some good CNC work.

fark. i just got them six months ago. guess ill drive it till it dies before i change anything.

[markone2]

You wouldn't bother mate, unless you had 10k invested in a set of heads the factory L98 offerings flow as much as some aftermarket LS1 241 esk heads. It only gets better with some good CNC work.

Tis true :goodjob:

[310gen]

I think that if you were to rebuild your ls1 with a set of good pistons and steel rods and then get a good quality single turbo set-up you would have more than enough power to scare the average punter. Turn up the boost, and then you would have enough power to make a dead man scream. Turbo Ls1 all the way, personally, a cammed whatever just does not cut the mustard for me anymore.

[duke5700]

fark. i just got them six months ago. guess ill drive it till it dies before i change anything.

You could sell them on...:yup: Depending on what they are heads seem to hold ok value.


I think that if you were to rebuild your ls1 with a set of good pistons and steel rods and then get a good quality single turbo set-up you would have more than enough power to scare the average punter. Turn up the boost, and then you would have enough power to make a dead man scream. Turbo Ls1 all the way, personally, a cammed whatever just does not cut the mustard for me anymore.


An LS3/L98 with a Queensland spec bumpstick is damn damn fast. I would hate to see a well setup T400 and 5K stall at the strip in an earlier girl. It would have to be close to running a 10.5 and maybe single digit zone with a sniff of gas.

[SVNLTR]

Cheaper option would be to stroke the LS1 to 383ci. Why bother with L98, LS3 etc?

You bother with the l98 and ls3 because its just early days for them-well in aus that is..................

[WLDLS1]

I think that if you were to rebuild your ls1 with a set of good pistons and steel rods and then get a good quality single turbo set-up you would have more than enough power to scare the average punter. Turn up the boost, and then you would have enough power to make a dead man scream. Turbo Ls1 all the way, personally, a cammed whatever just does not cut the mustard for me anymore.

yeah you have been converted nick. im not a big turbo fan. i like N/A on saying that those 2 BA fords go alright.
must admit if i ever did do a turbo setup( which is never) i would go a big single. i have seen twin turbo LS1s and mate they do nothing for me. always having one problem after the other.

NOW I WILL WAIT FOR DEEJAY TO BITE MY HEAD OFF.LOL

as for 241 heads fitting a L98. no they dont.

[OUTAtheBloo]

You wouldnt bother with a cammed anything, if you drove a stroker anything. Personally i haven't found anything that felt so nice to drive.

a l98 402 would still be more HP than honestly you would ever need on the street, and for most track work.

You need to think carefully what your goal is, and try and get a drive of things you would like to do. It was the best thing i did !

Dan

[Delft Maloo]

Single turbo(big) your ls1 and when it eventually dies replace it with an l98 or built 402.

Depends if you like the power rush of boost or not? after having boost i wont go any other way.

My own custom made single turbo ls1(medium sized to4) made 500+rwhp all day long on 3 different sponsors dynos in 2 different states and the new owner of it has 500rwhp in his ls1 with it aswell.
I upgraded to a russo built 402ci motor and have just got a set of l98 heads and manifold to put on it now after just using my ls1 heads for the last 6 months, in the next week or two my own custom turbo kit with a gt45-47 sized turbo will be going on.
400rwhp = good
500rwhp = great
540rwhp = awsome
600+rwhp = stupid:evil:

[duke5700]

Single turbo(big) your ls1 and when it eventually dies replace it with an l98 or built 402.

Depends if you like the power rush of boost or not? after having boost i wont go any other way.

My own custom made single turbo ls1(medium sized to4) made 500+rwhp all day long on 3 different sponsors dynos in 2 different states and the new owner of it has 500rwhp in his ls1 with it aswell.
I upgraded to a russo built 402ci motor and have just got a set of l98 heads and manifold to put on it now after just using my ls1 heads for the last 6 months, in the next week or two my own custom turbo kit with a gt45-47 sized turbo will be going on.
400rwhp = good
500rwhp = great
540rwhp = awsome
600+rwhp = stupid:evil:

You forgot the 1000+rwhp club:smilesandbanana:

[SVNLTR]

yeah you have been converted nick. im not a big turbo fan. i like N/A on saying that those 2 BA fords go alright.
must admit if i ever did do a turbo setup( which is never) i would go a big single. i have seen twin turbo LS1s and mate they do nothing for me. always having one problem after the other.

NOW I WILL WAIT FOR DEEJAY TO BITE MY HEAD OFF.LOL

as for 241 heads fitting a L98. no they dont.

241,243 heads Will fit any ls engine-

the l98 wont fit the 3.8-3.9 bore etc etc

as long has you use the right port intake's...........

[bad88u]

241,243 heads Will fit any ls engine-

the l98 wont fit the 3.8-3.9 bore etc etc

as long has you use the right port intake's...........

i have a set of higgins ported 241 heads.

so they will fit on a l98 motor?

will my custom grind ls1 cam fit too?

[duke5700]

Yes and Yes, though you may need to do something with the cam retainer I think. Nick can clarify for me.

[WLDLS1]

241,243 heads Will fit any ls engine-

the l98 wont fit the 3.8-3.9 bore etc etc

as long has you use the right port intake's...........

whats the bore size of a LS1/LS6?
whats the bore size of a L76/L98?
are you sure they fit?
my understanding is they dont but i might have it the wrong way around as you say.
and why would you even think about swapping L98 Heads for 241.

[Delft Maloo]

whats the bore size of a LS1/LS6?
whats the bore size of a L76/L98?
are you sure they fit?
my understanding is they dont but i might have it the wrong way around as you say.
and why would you even think about swapping L98 Heads for 241.

Cant remember exact but,
ls 1= 3.9
ls2,l76,92,98 = 4.0
Ls1 heads will fit onto the larger bore blocks, i have my original ls1 heads on my 6ltr iron block atm(l98 heads and manifold ready to go on now).
The 6ltr heads are not supposed to go on a ls1-ls6 block, i say not supposed to as i have seen post on here befor with people saying that it can and has been done but all the pro's say its a no no.

[WLDLS1]

ok kool. my mistake.:goodjob: