What if GM goes Bankrupt?

[davidandryan]

The average ages of NASA scientists when Armstrong stepped onto the moon for the first time was 23. Age doesn't matter, it's knowledge and ability to apply that knowledge. We're yet to see how he fares but making judgments based on his age isn't a very good crystal ball.

Where was armstrong ??

[Evman]

Where was armstrong ??

Ya lost me champ what's up?

[davidandryan]

Ya lost me champ what's up?

Where was armstrong ?

[Evman]

Um... On the moon?

[clubbie]

good r & d investment, yeh 10 years behind the euro cars and even some jap cars. No wonder the domestic industry is stuffed and everyones buying imports.

Hey I am agreeing with you. I mean look at the FG......wonderful "new" car with a platform that dates back to the 80's and a engine block that dates back to the 60's.

I can see everyone rushing now for a new Euro large RWD V8 Sedan for $50k on the road.......yep it will be at least 10 years old and you can expect service bills in the thousands not hundreds. Oh and a new one that would be no change from $150k.....wakey wakey hand of sna....

[VW Golf R32]

Hey I am agreeing with you. I mean look at the FG......wonderful "new" car with a platform that dates back to the 80's and a engine block that dates back to the 60's.

The only thing the FG I6 engine has in common with the 1960s Falcon I6 engines is the bore centers. There is nothing else that can be interchanged.

[SSBarney]

The only thing the FG I6 engine has in common with the 1960s Falcon I6 engines is the bore centers. There is nothing else that can be interchanged.

Yep the bolt holes have been moved:goodjob:

[COSMOS]

back on topic just for a mo.... here is an article picked up from NPR.org which talks about Corvettes and the future

All Things Considered, June 3, 2009 · As it begins to restructure, General Motors says it has "100 percent confidence" in its Corvette line, and it will continue to make the iconic sports car that has seduced drivers for more than five decades.

But many so-called "Vette heads" are deeply pained that the maker of their beloved macho cars has been brought to its knees.

"It hurts," says Terri Partridge, president of Massachusetts' South Shore Corvette Club. "You hate to see it happen."

Partridge is one of dozens of club members joined by their passion and lust for their Vettes.

"I fell in love years ago, basically as a kid," says club member Steve Boyajian. "And when you get older, you finally say, 'You know, I think it's time. Before I die, I want to own a Corvette.' "

Boyajian is the kind of guy who helped propel GM into the giant it was for decades, selling cars — and dreams — to drivers of all ages.

"It's the feeling you get when you are driving it," says Partridge, who just celebrated his 70th birthday. "You never get old driving this thing!" His corvette has massive blue flames painted onto the white background, and his license plate reads "HOT 1."

These are guys with way more invested in their cars than the sticker price.

John Zofchak souped up his first Corvette with everything from a custom paint job and vertical-lift doors, to transmission work, body work, brake work, shock work and suspension work. "I always do a little customizing to the car, so I am a little part of the car as well," he says.

Indeed, who wouldn't want to see themselves in the iconic American hot rod?

The Corvette was always the car that couldn't be beat — the epitome of pride and power.

"No question about it: It all comes from power," Boyajian says. "When you step on that thing, that thing can respond, and smoke the tires, and shoot out of that hole. Oh yeah, that's definitely something!"

"My car is so powerful," cracks Zofchak, pointing to his 638-horsepower ZR1, "it requires my girlfriend to wear a sports bra."

No wonder so many of these guys are having a hard time seeing the once-dominant GM, the creator of the ultimate American muscle car, now on its knees.

"We can't let General Motors go," Boyajian says. "That's letting America go, if you let General Motors go. I mean, it's a way of life."

"It's an American icon," adds Paul Lesogor. "It's, like, unbelievable to think that we'd lose them. It's crazy. It just doesn't seem right."

Most of these folks believe that GM will recover. But many worry that what saves the company might also spoil its appeal. Zofchak says he would be sad to see more cars that might sway drivers' minds but not their hearts.

"You're going to see a lot more smaller cars, more efficient cars being built," he says. "Is it what people want? No. But it's what they're going to be able to afford."

If people end up driving cars that are practical but that don't inspire passion, Zofchak laments, "a car is going to be nothing more than a piece of transportation.

"Maybe that's all it should be," he adds. "Who knows?"

It all leaves members of this Corvette club wondering what kind of car clubs their kids will join. As one put it, GM has become more like the Japanese carmakers. But 30 years from now, he says, "who's going to want to collect Toyota Scions?"



Interesting reading. Remember this is Ch11 - it is NOT BANKRUPTCY but only bankruptcy protection which allows you to restructure free of your normal GAAP obligations to secured and unsecured creditors, investors, bond holders, the market and the street.

So the amount of debt is immaterial - it essentially all goes away during the restructure where stocks become worthless, the company ceases to exist (note its now called NewGM with a new stock ticker) and the assets are stripped and reallocated.

I dont know many people here who have worked for a company in Ch11. I worked for a GM subsidiary for a while who was facing its own Ch11 and it looks like my current US employer will face the same fate if it cannot raise funding to service a debt due next year. Its a rough ride but the point is to trade out of it on the other side. Companies that seek Court protection usually come out the other side. Sometimes very different I admit.

The CEO of my last employer, Mike Jordan (no relation) took Westinghouse and stripped it back to essentially nothing. This was the powerhouse of US manufacturing and in the end he sold its bones to CBS. It was a company that specialised in power generation that ended up in broadcasting. No Ch11 there - just screwed.

US law and business process is different to here. If anyone has been watching The Ascent of Money on ABC1 on Thursday nights its a good overview of the situation. In the US going bankrupt to excuse your debts is no detriment to people.

If you cant pay your mortgage in the US you walk out of your house, not like here where the bank still cripples you. You just walk away. Thats why they are so rooted on the house market.

Ch11 is not even bankruptcy, its court supervised Bankruptcy Protection. A little free kick to do what you need to do to recover some of the business as opposed to letting the whole business go under.

[steves87]

back on topic just for a mo.... here is an article picked up from NPR.org which talks about Corvettes and the future

All Things Considered, June 3, 2009 · As it begins to restructure, General Motors says it has "100 percent confidence" in its Corvette line, and it will continue to make the iconic sports car that has seduced drivers for more than five decades.

But many so-called "Vette heads" are deeply pained that the maker of their beloved macho cars has been brought to its knees.

"It hurts," says Terri Partridge, president of Massachusetts' South Shore Corvette Club. "You hate to see it happen."

Partridge is one of dozens of club members joined by their passion and lust for their Vettes.

"I fell in love years ago, basically as a kid," says club member Steve Boyajian. "And when you get older, you finally say, 'You know, I think it's time. Before I die, I want to own a Corvette.' "

Boyajian is the kind of guy who helped propel GM into the giant it was for decades, selling cars — and dreams — to drivers of all ages.

"It's the feeling you get when you are driving it," says Partridge, who just celebrated his 70th birthday. "You never get old driving this thing!" His corvette has massive blue flames painted onto the white background, and his license plate reads "HOT 1."

These are guys with way more invested in their cars than the sticker price.

John Zofchak souped up his first Corvette with everything from a custom paint job and vertical-lift doors, to transmission work, body work, brake work, shock work and suspension work. "I always do a little customizing to the car, so I am a little part of the car as well," he says.

Indeed, who wouldn't want to see themselves in the iconic American hot rod?

The Corvette was always the car that couldn't be beat — the epitome of pride and power.

"No question about it: It all comes from power," Boyajian says. "When you step on that thing, that thing can respond, and smoke the tires, and shoot out of that hole. Oh yeah, that's definitely something!"

"My car is so powerful," cracks Zofchak, pointing to his 638-horsepower ZR1, "it requires my girlfriend to wear a sports bra."

No wonder so many of these guys are having a hard time seeing the once-dominant GM, the creator of the ultimate American muscle car, now on its knees.

"We can't let General Motors go," Boyajian says. "That's letting America go, if you let General Motors go. I mean, it's a way of life."

"It's an American icon," adds Paul Lesogor. "It's, like, unbelievable to think that we'd lose them. It's crazy. It just doesn't seem right."

Most of these folks believe that GM will recover. But many worry that what saves the company might also spoil its appeal. Zofchak says he would be sad to see more cars that might sway drivers' minds but not their hearts.

"You're going to see a lot more smaller cars, more efficient cars being built," he says. "Is it what people want? No. But it's what they're going to be able to afford."

If people end up driving cars that are practical but that don't inspire passion, Zofchak laments, "a car is going to be nothing more than a piece of transportation.

"Maybe that's all it should be," he adds. "Who knows?"

It all leaves members of this Corvette club wondering what kind of car clubs their kids will join. As one put it, GM has become more like the Japanese carmakers. But 30 years from now, he says, "who's going to want to collect Toyota Scions?"



Interesting reading. Remember this is Ch11 - it is NOT BANKRUPTCY but only bankruptcy protection which allows you to restructure free of your normal GAAP obligations to secured and unsecured creditors, investors, bond holders, the market and the street.

So the amount of debt is immaterial - it essentially all goes away during the restructure where stocks become worthless, the company ceases to exist (note its now called NewGM with a new stock ticker) and the assets are stripped and reallocated.

I dont know many people here who have worked for a company in Ch11. I worked for a GM subsidiary for a while who was facing its own Ch11 and it looks like my current US employer will face the same fate if it cannot raise funding to service a debt due next year. Its a rough ride but the point is to trade out of it on the other side. Companies that seek Court protection usually come out the other side. Sometimes very different I admit.

The CEO of my last employer, Mike Jordan (no relation) took Westinghouse and stripped it back to essentially nothing. This was the powerhouse of US manufacturing and in the end he sold its bones to CBS. It was a company that specialised in power generation that ended up in broadcasting. No Ch11 there - just screwed.

US law and business process is different to here. If anyone has been watching The Ascent of Money on ABC1 on Thursday nights its a good overview of the situation. In the US going bankrupt to excuse your debts is no detriment to people.

If you cant pay your mortgage in the US you walk out of your house, not like here where the bank still cripples you. You just walk away. Thats why they are so rooted on the house market.

Ch11 is not even bankruptcy, its court supervised Bankruptcy Protection. A little free kick to do what you need to do to recover some of the business as opposed to letting the whole business go under.

Nice post:goodjob: something i think and hear about a lot

[COSMOS]

when i read that article I can see they feel the same way about their vettes as we do about our commies...

[clubbie]

The only thing the FG I6 engine has in common with the 1960s Falcon I6 engines is the bore centers. There is nothing else that can be interchanged.

Fair enough......being the latest in the design. I guess Fords I6 is also made from alloy and the original from cast iron right?

[vlcalais8]

Fair enough......being the latest in the design. I guess Fords I6 is also made from alloy and the original from cast iron right?

as the saying goes if it aint broke don't fix it. The I6 has been developed well enough for it to be used throughout the years. Just like an LS motor, OHV pushrod dates back to the dinosaurs but hey they are good donks with plenty potential so why change a good thing

[Martin_D]

It all leaves members of this Corvette club wondering what kind of car clubs their kids will join. As one put it, GM has become more like the Japanese carmakers. But 30 years from now, he says, "who's going to want to collect Toyota Scions?"

Probably the best thing that could happen to GM is if it adopted some Japanese design and build quality fundamentals. That way a quad cam V8 Commodore with no rattles and no falling off bits might be in our future :cool:

[michaels1v8]

Probably the best thing that could happen to GM is if it adopted some Japanese design and build quality fundamentals. That way a quad cam V8 Commodore with no rattles and no falling off bits might be in our future :cool:

Quad cam!!!!!!

What will us cheap ass's do for power then?:bawl: I can barely afford 1 cam let alone 4 haha

Would make turbo packages much more attractive though :stick: