Holden Won't Confirm Direct Injection V6 For Commodore

[falcom]

Please see link : http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/holden/commodore/directinjection-v6-for-holdens-commodore-14853

Holden really need this engine NOW.

[Jac001]

Didn't the G8 v8's come with cyclinder deactivation long before we got it on our local products?

The interesting thing will be if holden do release a DI v6 will it replace all v6 or just for the sv6/calais (and drop the 190kw motor down to the omega/ berlina which in turn raises feul economy, or do they have something else up their sleeve????? *woohoo*

Will holden rise the price of these models (with DI v6) or will the absorb the cost?

Introducing costly new models part way thru an economic downturn isn't always a great idea.

[falcom]

I have noticed that in the last 3 or 4 months that Holden have increased the RRP for a SV6 by $2,000.

Maybe they are doing this now so when the upgrade comes they can market it by saying the new model is the same price as the old model,when in reality it is $2,000 more.

[Road Warrior]

I'm betting the Calais and SV6 will get the DI motor and the rest of the range will get the 190 motor and 5 speed auto.

[CSP]

Holden certainly do need this motor. I drove a direct injection 220kw/350nM R36 last week and it's about as quick as my VE Clubby was! I was seriously impressed and the DSG gearbox that goes with it make it a much better V6 package than anything from Holden or Ford!

Direct injetion will probably be old technology by the time Holden get around to releasing it.

[Big_Valven]

Agreed... Holden need to do something about their 6s - they are presently being smashed by ford for power and Toyota for economy.

[Excellent]

Will the new motor even match the performance/economy of current Toyota and Ford 6s?

[cashie]

Agreed... Holden need to do something about their 6s - they are presently being smashed by ford for power and Toyota for economy.

Yep, and the Ford I6 has just got a fuel economy drop to 9.9l/100kms... Not bad for a 4 litre engine with plenty of torque.

[Road Warrior]

Yep, and the Ford I6 has just got a fuel economy drop to 9.9l/100kms... Not bad for a 4 litre engine with plenty of torque.

Provided you option the ZF 6 speed auto with it.

That Toyoturd V6 - what size is it? Might be frugal with fuel on paper but what happens if you load the car up and hit the highways?

[Big_Valven]

Provided you option the ZF 6 speed auto with it.

That Toyoturd V6 - what size is it? Might be frugal with fuel on paper but what happens if you load the car up and hit the highways?

When camry drivers hit the highway they most likely have a caravan and so only do 70km/h anyway, thereby negating any fuel economy issues :rofl::spew:

I'd hazard a guess it's not the most inspiring V6. But then again the Holden engine has the ability to munch petrol when it's doing anything but light highway driving too.

[Road Warrior]

Does Direct Injection mean you wouldnt be able to fit one of the new-gen LPG injection systems??

[planetdavo]

The latest base models VE's have the LY7 high output motor in them, just the still single exhaust restricts the output. They are a bit more economical than earlier base model VE's.

[PoweredByCNG]

Does Direct Injection mean you wouldnt be able to fit one of the new-gen LPG injection systems??

Yes, but Prins in The Netherlands has come up with Direct LPG Injection, compatible with direct petrol injection engines!

Regards,
Dave

[dmenace]

Maybe they should drop in a 3.2 DI V6 as standard for the Omega and make the 3.6 DI optional.

Omega/Berlina - 3.2 DI Standard, 3.6 DI Optional
SV6, Calais - 3.6 DI Standard

[monaro327]

my VE sv6 is great on fuel all holden need to do is factory fit russo otr's. usually sits around 4.4-5.6 on the highway depending how flat the road is. this is also a 6speed manual not an auto.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/beegem/18042009021.jpg

[Kuzman89]

wow, the best I get on the freeway is 7l/100k and thats with a pod filter. Need to get my hands on an OTR, would rather a stock looking one.

Anyway of implementing a DI on a current allotec? Like when it comes out possible to have a bolt on system? Im guessing no?

[monaro327]

would be expensive and difficult as a minimum i'm guessing you'd have to swap the heads and ECU maybe wiring loom.


i use to get 7.3 on the highway with a pod setup. look at my pics in the russo thread it looks stock mate.

Heres another pic from a trip i took to kangaroo valley. i filled up at shellharbour then drove to berry then took long kangaroo road to kangaroo valley, i took this pic when i got back to Shellharbour so the tank wasn't even full.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/beegem/18042009020.jpg

[Ghia351]

wow, the best I get on the freeway is 7l/100k and thats with a pod filter. Need to get my hands on an OTR, would rather a stock looking one.

Anyway of implementing a DI on a current allotec? Like when it comes out possible to have a bolt on system? Im guessing no?I'd guess the trip computer was reset while at freeway speeds to get that figure rather then an average based on a few hours of driving.

[Kuzman89]

yeh thats what I meant. I reset mine on the fwy and got around 7L

And monaro, apart from the OTR, im guessing the extractors, cats and all the other mods help as well??

1000km is bloody good. Thats from here to sydney on one tank!!

[Crane]

Yes, but Prins in The Netherlands has come up with Direct LPG Injection, compatible with direct petrol injection engines!

Regards,
Dave

LOL. So Parnell may have a chance at at getting a decent reputation back :)

Hey Dave, I take it you're saying that the direct injection LPG will be very different to the liquid injection LPG thats currently available?

[monaro327]

yeah mate i have exrtractors and hiflow cats. still stock cat back with just smaller rear mufflers.

pacies helped a bit cats hard to tell.

[Kuzman89]

hey monaro, im looking at the pacemaker extractors for my ute, are they decent? Heard yours were coated.

Also as far as cats, are yours bolt on or those universal ones? Guy from pacemaker told me theres no point in getting cats because the sv6 comes with hi-flow cats already.

A mate of mine was telling me how he modded his cats (took something out) and they run better now. But not sure if its illegal. If you had the cats still on but they weren't working, would that increase kw?

[FlatfootV8]

Thing with direct injection petrol engines they need to have the very high octane premium unleaded to be any good or to show any real economy gains from the direct injection engines.

How many average joes are going to fill the tank with ordinary unleaded and make the direct injection a worthless commodity?

[calaisrat]

Thing with direct injection petrol engines they need to have the very high octane premium unleaded to be any good or to show any real economy gains from the direct injection engines.

How many average joes are going to fill the tank with ordinary unleaded and make the direct injection a worthless commodity?

The Chevy Camaro's DI V6 Gets 29 MPG Hwy an 18 MPG city or approx 9.8 L/100Km and is 1770 Kg. That is acheived using regular fuel which in america is 87 octane.
So in a commodore where it would get a minumum of 91 Octane and in a slightly lighter car (Commodore SV6 is 1735 Kg) it should get even better fuel figures than.
So that means that its not worthless by any means and will be even better for power and economy than in america.

[Marco]

That Toyoturd V6 - what size is it? Might be frugal with fuel on paper but what happens if you load the car up and hit the highways?

What happens is that it's still very frugal and moves the car along very nicely when you need the power. We hired one for a week and drove around Tasmania, and the V6/auto combo was the best part of the car by miles.

[Crane]

The Chevy Camaro's DI V6 Gets 29 MPG Hwy an 18 MPG city or approx 9.8 L/100Km and is 1770 Kg. That is acheived using regular fuel which in america is 87 octane.
So in a commodore where it would get a minumum of 91 Octane and in a slightly lighter car (Commodore SV6 is 1735 Kg) it should get even better fuel figures than.
So that means that its not worthless by any means and will be even better for power and economy than in america.

The bit I usually get wrong with american fuel economy figures is the american gallon bit (which is 3.7 litres, not the 4.45 litres of the imperial gallon that we are used to comparing)

At 3.7 litres/USGallon and 1.6 Km/Mile I get 12.9l/100km for 18MPG and 8l/100km for 29MPG which are really good figures. Is the 9.8 you guote an avarage?

Cheers

[falcom]

I also remember reading somewhere(I think it was wikepedia) that 87 octane fuel in America is equivalent to 91 octane fuel in Australia.

Carpoint has an update to this story.(see link)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/holden/commodore/directinjection-holden-already-in-australia-14893

[Crane]

I also remember reading somewhere(I think it was wikepedia) that 87 octane fuel in America is equivalent to 91 octane fuel in Australia.

Here is a tidbit of info for you. RON is always 7 to 10 points higher than MON So compared to the US standards you serve up 88, 91, and 94 Octane versus US 86, 89, and 91.

The above is a post in a thread from an engineering forum in the States. I dont know how accurate his actual stats are but the bottom line is you are right. The numbers cant be compared directly between the two countries. At the very high end their 94 is the same as our 100 apparently. We measure ours according to RON, theirs is measured in MON. I'm not sure what that stands for but here's another link.
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

[calaisrat]

Well that being the case about the octane of the fuel, My point is still valid, fuel economy will still benefit from the DI motor even on standard fuel.
I'm sure holden will tinker with it too to decrease power and increase economy and work from there aswell.

[Crane]

Well that being the case about the octane of the fuel, My point is still valid, fuel economy will still benefit from the DI motor even on standard fuel.
I'm sure holden will tinker with it too to decrease power and increase economy and work from there aswell.

Definitely, if Holden can develop a 200ish kw six that gets genuine sub 10l/100km combined city/hwy economy cycles it will be a good thing :)

[planetdavo]

Definitely, if Holden can develop a 200ish kw six that gets genuine sub 10l/100km combined city/hwy economy cycles it will be a good thing :)
But, will they actually sell any extra cars????? DI tech will definitely cost the buyer extra money.
Contrary to popular opinion, very few "affordable" cars in Australia have direct injection motors fitted.

[ti0350]

I hope they do bring out the DI V6, we will be looking to get a Calais sport wagon next year as a 2nd car and it definately will be a V6, can't wait actually as the SS becomes my weekend play toy and thats when the serious mods start..

[Crane]

But, will they actually sell any extra cars????? DI tech will definitely cost the buyer extra money.
Contrary to popular opinion, very few "affordable" cars in Australia have direct injection motors fitted.

Fair comment, and the only DI motors I'm aware of are tiny diesel donks stuffed into equally tiny Euro hatchbacks (Peugeot etc) that return 5lt/100km or less. But these aren't practical aussie family cars imho. Given the economic woes of late I think maybe people would take the upfront hit on retail price to have the longer term benefit of clawing that and more back with fuel savings over time (providing of course that it was a significant savings over the competition)

I did just this when we bought our ten year old EL Ghia by putting a rather expensive injected LPG system on it. It has definitely paid off, but being a car enthusiast was key to being bothered in the first place. If the average "non petrol head" can be shown a (even semi) quantum leap in fuel economy related technology I reckon these tough times may make it worth while. The downside tho may be that people keep these cars a lot longer than the builders would like.

[VW Golf R32]

Maybe they should drop in a 3.0 DI V6 as standard for the Omega and make the 3.6 DI optional.

Omega/Berlina - 3.0 DI Standard, 3.6 PFI Optional
SV6, Calais - 3.6 DI Standard

You are onto something. Maybe Holden will pay attention.

[planetdavo]

You are onto something. Maybe Holden will pay attention.
I can't see yet another V6 engine option holding much interest in the market. 3 different V6's for the current market?
I suggest 3.6 Hi Output base and 3.6 DI for luxury/SV6 as far more likely, to continue the theme currently used.
Saying that though, everyone is getting rather moist over the whole DI thing. Extra gears in the auto is far more likely in reality for most models.

[VW Golf R32]

I can't see yet another V6 engine option holding much interest in the market. 3 different V6's for the current market?

Stay tuned.

[planetdavo]

Stay tuned.
Staying tuned. :)
Holden will only release what will get volume sales.

[Fnomna]

Stay tuned.

And you haven't denied what I wrote in the other thread


So LF1 (3.0L DI) for base models, LLT (3.6L DI) for higher spec models and LY7 (current 3.6L) kept for LPG aplications.

[CharlieDontSurf]

And you haven't denied what I wrote in the other thread


I think your right in that there will be 3 versions of the V6 in the commodore, as there currently is (LPG being the 3rd)

My view is that there will be:
DI for Premium models (SV6, LWB,Calais)
Deicated Liquid injected LPG as an ecoline option (non DI) at least on Omega and berlina possibly full range
Base engine current HFV6 with single exaust with more economy tuning
All models 6sp Auto as standard (US made will be cheaper than French made 5 speed )Economies of scale will help bring cost down
6 speed auto tuning alone will see economy/drivability gains


Questions unanswered(including all of the above!!)

Will manual gearbox be available with DI gearbox only in SV6 sedan and Omega Ute as currently or with 6 speeds in auto's will Holden save the money and direct manual users to the SS/SSV

Will Holden reduce engine size of base to 3.2lt and maybe use dual exaust HFV6. This will keep power similar and reduce Estimated fuel use(real world will probably be less beneficial) and more importantly for fleets reduce CO2 and emmissions. This is the single most important figure for a Fleet (non user chooser) vehicle in the current climate.

[calaisrat]

I would assume that a manual option would still be an option with the DI V6.
The camaro has a manual option on the 6 so it can be done.
I reckon holden would be putting a grenade in there pants by not having a manual option on there first really sporty V6.
The 6 speed auto is currently being used in the V6 Statesmans in the middle east ATM so that may be a sign of things to come.

[VW Golf R32]

And you haven't denied what I wrote in the other thread

Because I Googled the net like you did and picked V6 engines I would like to see in the Commodore. I have no idea what Holden will be using.

[VW Golf R32]

And you haven't denied what I wrote in the other thread

Because I had said to much at that time.