Direct Injection V6 Prototype seen (heard) in Melbourne

[VESportswagon20]

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/holden/commodore/directinjection-holden-already-in-australia-14893

Could be truth in the rumour that it will be here this year. Despite being badged a Buick this maybe what the new Statesman WN may actually look like. I remember when they first exported the current serious Buick hearing about the extreme luxury in these compared to Staesman/Caprice. Would be good to see some of those features creep into the Caprice as well.

[Holden Man]

Maybe they'll put it in the premium/sporty models - Statesman, Calais, SV6.

The US version has been getting some great reviews. Holden may finally have a decent, powerful, sporty sounding 6. (cue the turbo version!)

Sounds Ferarri like (sought of!)
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIoZ3fIMrk4)

Test drive 2010 V6 Camaro
YouTube - 2010 Chevrolet Camaro V6 Drive - Milford MI May '08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OJoUQxQ1jA)


" the V6 Chevy Camaro is a good car with a terrific engine..... With the 2010 Camaro, "I have the V6" is something you can say with your head held high. "

Review (Autoblog) >
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/22/the-joy-of-six-2010-chevy-camaro-v6-rs/

[Kuzman89]

man why did I miss out!! :bawl:

That DI alloytec sounded mint, lets hope holdens version sounds the same or even better.

How hard is it importing a new camaro? I honestly think they look like sex.

[iloveholden]

Lets pray that Holden can get this DI V6 in the commodore by the end of the year. It sounds great and the added power yet with better economy is exactly what Holden needs atm :)

Turbo version anyone?

[Road Warrior]

Isnt the V6 fitted to the Park Avenue a 3.2 Litre motor? They could have been testing a 3.2DI motor for all they know.

That Park Avenue gets reclining back seats too if I recall. They should be exporting them to Germany to give Opel a big luxo cruiser to take on the Mercs and Beemers.

[ADAM 26]

why dont they have this on a ls based motor yet?

its the v6 the same as the allytec just with DI??

[monaro327]

cause DI don't increase performence, the only reason the DI alloytec puts out more power is due to the higher compression ratio. DI does increase torque down low but up top is worse then port injewction look at toyota's new V8 it runs DI until 3000rpm and then it switches to port injection till red line.

[VW Golf R32]

Lets pray that Holden can get this DI V6 in the commodore by the end of the year. It sounds great and the added power yet with better economy is exactly what Holden needs atm :)

The Commodore will be fitted with the LF1, LY7 and LLT engines before the end of this year.

[Evman]

why dont they have this on a ls based motor yet?

its the v6 the same as the allytec just with DI??

The mules are (or were) out there in America. No idea how the DI LSx engines faired in the budget cuts...

[Martin_D]

" the V6 Chevy Camaro is a good car with a terrific engine..... With the 2010 Camaro, "I have the V6" is something you can say with your head held high. "

Thats all good until you meet someone that actually knows about cars :(

[Fnomna]

The Commodore will be fitted with the LF1, LY7 and LLT engines before the end of this year.

LF1

http://auto-report.net/?p=2988&page=3
The 3.0 L is rated at an estimated 255 horsepower (187 kW) and 214 lb-ft of torque (290 Nm)
large pic http://auto-report.net/?attachment_id=2991

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/gms-expanding-gasoline-direct-injection-engine-portfolio.html

2010 GM 3.0L V-6 VVT (LF1) . The new 3.0-liter DI engine delivers power, depending upon application, from 255-264 hp (190-197 kW), with torque of 217-222 lb-ft (294-301 N·m). With a compression ratio of 11.7:1 this engine achieves SAE-rated specific output of 88.5 hp/liter in the new Cadillac SRX.

LY7
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2009_36L_LY7_Malibu_SAE_n.pdf
188 kW, 340 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT/LY7%20Summary.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine#LY7
http://www.media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/09car.htm

LLT
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2008_36L_VVT_DI_LLT_CTS.pdf
227 kW, 370 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf


LF1

http://auto-report.net/?p=2988&page=3
The 3.0 L is rated at an estimated 255 horsepower (187 kW) and 214 lb-ft of torque (290 Nm)
large pic http://auto-report.net/?attachment_id=2991

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/gms-expanding-gasoline-direct-injection-engine-portfolio.html


LY7
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2009_36L_LY7_Malibu_SAE_n.pdf
188 kW, 340 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT/LY7%20Summary.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine#LY7
http://www.media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/09car.htm

LLT
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2008_36L_VVT_DI_LLT_CTS.pdf
227 kW, 370 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf


So LF1 (3.0L DI) for base models, LLT (3.6L DI) for higher spec models and LY7 (current 3.6L) kept for LPG aplications.

So LF1 (3.0L DI) for base models, LLT (3.6L DI) for higher spec models and LY7 (current 3.6L) kept for LPG aplications.

(Doh - can't edit automerged post! Didn't mean to re-quote what I just wrote.)

[falcom]

Does anybody know if this new direct injected engine solves the perceived harshness under heavy acceleration of our HFV6 engine?

[Holden Man]

Thats all good until you meet someone that actually knows about cars :(

Mustang owners may feel slightly pissed that the GM DI V6 matches the ford's 4.6ltr V8 !

Still 30hp down on the 3.7ltr Nissan V6 though.

[theVman]

I dont understand why it is taking so long to get these into the VE. I understand Australian Standards do make it difficult as you have to go through all the hoops and barels but surely its got to be a good thing for both sales and image.

[CharlieDontSurf]

I think Planetdavo has said it 100 times. No incentive to for holden to do it. It would increase costs and untill recently slaes have been OK

[PSI_747]

The direct injection V6's WILL be available in the next model, due out late this year, so we're told. We've already built MANY pilot models with these engines. 3.0ltr/ 5spd auto base spec,3.6ltr/6spd auto SV6 and upwards models.

Can't come quick enough.....will be a nice package when on sale. We should start seeing VF pilots in the next few months. Only cosmetic changes as expected , much over due as everyone knows!

[planetdavo]

It's a little bit difficult to confirm DI pilots are for the Aus market when we send VE/WM's all around the world with various drivelines, unless you have very, very specific insider knowledge...:hide:
Holden, of course, get very stroppy when too much info is given out.
Holden will only do this if the economics work out. If they switch most of their export production to DI, the benefits of scale re parts cost is likely to be low enough to get away with a smaller price rise locally, balanced against the marketers ability to on-sell the claimed benefits.
If they don't switch most export production to DI, there is absolutely to benefit for Holden to do so locally!
I must admit I'm slightly amused that so many people say we MUST get this motor, when in reality many people saying so are likely to have no idea how the system even works and what components differ to a PFI system!!!
People think Holden needs more power and better economy. How often do we keep hearing that? Probably since the BA came out in 2002 I reckon...:p

[VW Golf R32]

The direct injection V6's WILL be available in the next model, due out late this year, so we're told. We've already built MANY pilot models with these engines. 3.0ltr/ 5spd auto base spec,3.6ltr/6spd auto SV6 and upwards models.

Can't come quick enough.....will be a nice package when on sale. We should start seeing VF pilots in the next few months. Only cosmetic changes as expected , much over due as everyone knows!

Do you work for Holden? If so, give us more news about the VF. :goodjob:

[iloveholden]

The direct injection V6's WILL be available in the next model, due out late this year, so we're told. We've already built MANY pilot models with these engines. 3.0ltr/ 5spd auto base spec,3.6ltr/6spd auto SV6 and upwards models.

Can't come quick enough.....will be a nice package when on sale. We should start seeing VF pilots in the next few months. Only cosmetic changes as expected , much over due as everyone knows!

mmmm interesting mate...are you a Holden insider or a Holden Dealer?

[planetdavo]

mmmm interesting mate...are you a Holden insider or a Holden Dealer?
He will need to be well within the fencelines of Holden Central if his posts contain guaranteed truth on this subject, and if so, Holden Central wont be happy with him. :)

[Ghia351]

I must admit I'm slightly amused that so many people say we MUST get this motor, when in reality many people saying so are likely to have no idea how the system even works and what components differ to a PFI system!!!
People think Holden needs more power and better economy. How often do we keep hearing that? Probably since the BA came out in 2002 I reckon...:p
You make a good point....how many real 6 cyl rwd buyers will buy a Falcon because it has the better 6cyl powertrain, uses less fuel and is the latest new release and fresher interior. Certainly not loyal Holden fans because they'll only buy Holden. If you're a buyer purely on price in this segment then Holden has also shown a willingness to be the better discounter as well. If VE sales stopped because it doesn't have DI, six speed auto, class leading fuel economy then Holden would transfer across the necessary technology from export models to the local model....however buyers haven't stopped buying, sure volumes have dropped but not too far behind the actual the segment. Any buyers that didn't buy in the 6cyl RWD segment were never going to buy a VE (or FG) and so Holden wouldn't have won the business anyway regardless of product.

[Excellent]

The direct injection V6's WILL be available in the next model, due out late this year, so we're told. We've already built MANY pilot models with these engines. 3.0ltr/ 5spd auto base spec,3.6ltr/6spd auto SV6 and upwards models.

Can't come quick enough.....will be a nice package when on sale. We should start seeing VF pilots in the next few months. Only cosmetic changes as expected , much over due as everyone knows!

I remember reading something about the new model having 25% better fuel economy and less weight. So I guess the 3.0L V6 will happen if Holden expect a serious improvement in fuel economy. Let's hope the new Commodore model brings back buyers of large cars.

[cwhast]

The direct injection V6's WILL be available in the next model, due out late this year, so we're told. We've already built MANY pilot models with these engines. 3.0ltr/ 5spd auto base spec,3.6ltr/6spd auto SV6 and upwards models.

Can't come quick enough.....will be a nice package when on sale. We should start seeing VF pilots in the next few months. Only cosmetic changes as expected , much over due as everyone knows!
So given Holden's usual Aug-Oct release cycle, going by what you're saying I'd assume the VF should be released in the next 6 or 7 months and they might drop the Omega nameplate. Am I getting warm? What kind of cosmetic changes?
:goodjob:

[Nitronic12]

YES.
*starts saving up for next car*

[falcom]

..... Any buyers that didn't buy in the 6cyl RWD segment were never going to buy a VE (or FG) and so Holden wouldn't have won the business anyway regardless of product.


I disagree.
If Holden had a Commodore that achieved under 10l/100km(without having to spend extra $2,000 as in Ford's case) and a power advantage over a 4 cyl(Camry) than I think this may bring people back to a large car.So I think an upgrade would be successful.

I know a couple of people who went the 4 cyl root and are now regretting it as they simply do not have enough room for their needs.

As for VF.(Anybody got any more info)

[Ghia351]

I disagree.
If Holden had a Commodore that achieved under 10l/100km(without having to spend extra $2,000 as in Ford's case) and a power advantage over a 4 cyl(Camry) than I think this may bring people back to a large car.So I think an upgrade would be successful.

I know a couple of people who went the 4 cyl root and are now regretting it as they simply do not have enough room for their needs.

As for VF.(Anybody got any more info)You're assuming Holden won't raise prices if able to offer these features on an update. Plus very few private sales are base models.

[Pickles]

It has to happen....the "antique" but superbly developed 4L Falcon engine has much better driveabilty..more power, & MUCH more torque.
I reckon this year, but if not, certainly within the next 12ms.
Cheers, Pickles.

[ti0350]

i wonder if Holden is testing the Turbo 3.6l V6 (261kw) for the Commodore, apparently this engine will be seen in the new top of the line AWD Saab 9-5.. I could be wrong but Holden makes the current V6's for the Saab's now so I would assume they would make them as well as it sound like a turbo Alloytech to me..
If they can make them for overseas it's about time Holdens tarted thinking about using them locally.

[planetdavo]

i wonder if Holden is testing the Turbo 3.6l V6 (261kw) for the Commodore, apparently this engine will be seen in the new top of the line AWD Saab 9-5.. I could be wrong but Holden makes the current V6's for the Saab's now so I would assume they would make them as well as it sound like a turbo Alloytech to me..
If they can make them for overseas it's about time Holdens tarted thinking about using them locally.
Hmmm, so we could have a 260/270kW 6.0 V8, or we could have a 261kW turbo 3.6 V6.
Sales problem anyone...?
In Ford's case, their V8 was already well off the pace, and that's the only reason they developed their Turbo 6!

[ti0350]

Hmmm, so we could have a 260/270kW 6.0 V8, or we could have a 261kW turbo 3.6 V6.
Sales problem anyone...?
In Ford's case, their V8 was already well off the pace, and that's the only reason they developed their Turbo 6!

It's time they upped the power on the V8 then isn't it..

[oranpark_addict]

It's time they upped the power on the V8 then isn't it..

I dont think upping xr8 power is as simple as that. it's already at 290 and thats not bad really, for a 5.4 v8.

BTW: I really think that the commodore needs the upgrade so pretty please holden. The current alloytec is just so corse when you rev it. Plus better fuel economy and technology aint to bad either.

Best of all they can add it to ecoline and make a great advertising campaign for better fuel economy,more power and better technology.

[PSI_747]

Do you work for Holden? If so, give us more news about the VF. :goodjob:


I work for Holden. These Di v6 pilots were built just prior to xmas.Speaking to an engineer when they came down, he said this is all for the next model. That was then, and a lot has changed since xmas i know. We haven't seen anything since i will say tho. I guess they would be running these pilots around everywhere, putting them thru there paces.
As said earlier, Holden would not go ahead with this IF it was only for the local market, wouldn't be viable, it has to be a massive part of the export market, thats what pays for it really. And generally, it goes in the export models first, then is filtered down to the local cars. Like The new AFM, that was in the G8 ages ago...we only just recently got it!

The only VF info i know of at this stage, is new front and rear facias, cosmetics changes, similar to VY/VZ. Its more driveline. Its all become a bit long in the tooth now, and needs a facelift to rejuvinate interest in the commodore again. It'll be around 3years with no change by the time the VF is released! So they got to have something lined up soon.....Hopefully real soon. Will post up when i see more....i'm waiting for the VF as much as anyone else as i want to buy 1, but don't want to purchase 1 now, knowing the VF isn't that far away.

[mmciau]

And will there be dedicated LPG only?



Mike

[PSI_747]

And will there be dedicated LPG only?



Mike

Apparently there will be, with 2 gas tanks fitted for increased milage,that has been metioned, but haven't seen anything to confirm that as yet tho. Would be good and makes plenty of sense.

[ti0350]

I dont think upping xr8 power is as simple as that. it's already at 290 and thats not bad really, for a 5.4 v8.

BTW: I really think that the commodore needs the upgrade so pretty please holden. The current alloytec is just so corse when you rev it. Plus better fuel economy and technology aint to bad either.

Best of all they can add it to ecoline and make a great advertising campaign for better fuel economy,more power and better technology.

I was tongue in cheek talking about the Holden V8, that would make a turbo alloytech more viable..

Seriously I'm hoping they upgrade the V6 engines since my next cars a V6..

[SUPERH2377]

I was tongue in cheek talking about the Holden V8, that would make a turbo alloytech more viable..

Seriously I'm hoping they upgrade the V6 engines since my next cars a V6..

1 thing i dont get is if they use a 3.0 l v6 with 188kw & 290 nm torque with the current weight i would expect it to use more fuel in everyday driving. let me know your thoughts

[MNRO57]

I dont beleive Holden will use a smaller capacity V6 in the next model as they have been tested and have proved to to be of no benefit at all. I know they used slightly more fuel than the current 3.6. They would have to loose some KILO's before moving to a smaller engine as the torque won't be as high.

[VW Golf R32]

The Commodore will be fitted with the LF1, LY7 and LLT engines before the end of this year.

I was 100% correct months before Holden released the details. :)


LF1

http://auto-report.net/?p=2988&page=3
The 3.0 L is rated at an estimated 255 horsepower (187 kW) and 214 lb-ft of torque (290 Nm)
large pic http://auto-report.net/?attachment_id=2991

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/gms-expanding-gasoline-direct-injection-engine-portfolio.html


LY7
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2009_36L_LY7_Malibu_SAE_n.pdf
188 kW, 340 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT/LY7%20Summary.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine#LY7
http://www.media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2009/09car.htm

LLT
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2008_36L_VVT_DI_LLT_CTS.pdf
227 kW, 370 Nm

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf




So LF1 (3.0L DI) for base models, LLT (3.6L DI) for higher spec models and LY7 (current 3.6L) kept for LPG aplications.

So LF1 (3.0L DI) for base models, LLT (3.6L DI) for higher spec models and LY7 (current 3.6L) kept for LPG aplications.)

Nice googling Fnomna.:bow: