General Motors to kill Pontiac on Monday ?

[korrupt]

Doesn't sound good...


According to a report from InsideLine, General Motors could axe Pontiac as early as this Monday. Although IL isn't citing its source within GM, it did contact the General's PR man, Tom Wilkinson, who said, "There's nothing I can share with you at this time... Officially, nothing has changed with Pontiac's niche-brand status, until you hear differently." Not very clear, but not particularly positive either.

The line about Pontiac's "niche-brand status" has been floating around since last December, when GM began to focus on its four core brands – Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC – while readying the rest (Saab, Saturn and Hummer) for execution or extradition.

Pontiac's focus has been ill-defined (at best) over the decade, with solid products like the G8 coming to market alongside other less-than-stellar offerings (cough, G3). There was talk of reigniting Pontiac's performance heritage or even refocusing the brand as a Scion competitor. Regardless of past plans or intentions, there was no doubt that Pontiac was in the cross-hairs, and come Monday, we might know it's final fate.

From Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/)

[Fnomna]

Let's hope no-one notices when they slap a Chev badge on the G8, and good sales continue!

[VW Golf R32]

This decision will hurt Holden's export G8 model. :vpo:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090425/AUTO01/904250359/General+Motors+to+dump+Pontiac

[Ausmartin1]

It's True ........
& GM NA SUCK as our GMH Holden EXPORTS will STOP!:flipoff::soap:

I feel really sorry four our fellow Australian workers because they make a far better product in our export Holden (Pontiac) than the Septic Yanks do with there own.
Maybe they are just jelouse that a far fewer SMART Ozzies can put together a package way BETTER than the Hords of UNION NA GM people they employ.
Holden do so much with so little compared to GMNA opertions.....
I feel for Holdens people they don't deserve this crap dish back at them in this way for all their fine work.

GMH keep your chin up you showed those Septics how to deliver a real value for money quality car.
Best wishes as times are going to get a lot harder.....

[planetdavo]

If you believed everything written on this forum slagging off Holden's work, you wouldn't for one day believe they make such a quality product for export...

[Martin_D]

If this is true its very sad....the Australian Commodore platform was far superior to anything the US engineers could have ever dreamed of. I know this after having an F-body, which as a car is the biggest steaming pile of horse shit that has ever been put on four wheels......the VB Commodore was better in every way...... :eek:

[Ausmartin1]

If you believed everything written on this forum slagging off Holden's work, you wouldn't for one day believe they make such a quality product for export...

I'm very very happy with mine, maybe all the planets aligned when mine was made & as I service it myself - properly no dramas which may make all the difference, thats why I defend GMH, they done great by me as it will be 8 years old this September and I still enjoy driving it!

[payaya]

Just keeps getting worse for GM.

[ti0350]

I find it funny how they were realyl quick to bail out the financial industry and the financial industry could well and truely sink the U.S. car industry..
It seems to me they letting banks and crap get away with any think they want but are coming down hard on the car firms, maybe if they had of impsed some of the conditions on the banks as that they have on the car firms things mighten be as bad..
But it realyl shows you who's really running the country..

[shakows]

Yes its very sad

Its times like this that I am glad our Big 4 banks are so profitable, at least we have some sort of stability

Its all bad for GM, they are taking it from all direction's

[VW Golf R32]

I find it funny how they were realyl quick to bail out the financial industry and the financial industry could well and truely sink the U.S. car industry..
It seems to me they letting banks and crap get away with any think they want but are coming down hard on the car firms, maybe if they had of impsed some of the conditions on the banks as that they have on the car firms things mighten be as bad..
But it realyl shows you who's really running the country..

Exactly. It is the Federal Reserve Bank, not the US senate which controls the USA. :flipoff:

[sKeptiK]

I find it funny how they were realyl quick to bail out the financial industry and the financial industry could well and truely sink the U.S. car industry..
It seems to me they letting banks and crap get away with any think they want but are coming down hard on the car firms, maybe if they had of impsed some of the conditions on the banks as that they have on the car firms things mighten be as bad..
But it realyl shows you who's really running the country..

Agreed. But you must also remember that the auto companies have had losses for years. They have been restructuring for a long time. If it wasn't for this crisis the banks would be ok. The auto's though...

[taztassio]

If this is true its very sad....the Australian Commodore platform was far superior to anything the US engineers could have ever dreamed of. I know this after having an F-body, which as a car is the biggest steaming pile of horse shit that has ever been put on four wheels......the VB Commodore was better in every way...... :eek:

that said, the VE has a a cadillac rear end, and a US engine.

go figure ;)

[Martin_D]

It has seat pockets made in Somalia too......
Thankfully the yanks were mostly kept out of it, which is why they import them from Australia :idea:

[taztassio]

ahah.

what i am most horrified by is the camaro not being brought in.

I chatted to an engineer about it, he works on the camaro (fe3 suspension etc) he said its a really nice car, even better than the ve.

[shakows]

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25386755-462,00.html

From the article

General Motors is this week expected to announce plans to ditch or sell the brand as it desperately works to stave off bankruptcy.

Its like cutting you arm off to save some weight, the longer they try to not go into the bankruptcy the more painful it will eventually be.

These things are nail's in coffin's

[arcee]

It does not say anything at all but GM did release this statement in relation to Pontiac Sunday afternoon:

Contrary to media speculation, General Motors has not announced any changes to its long-term viability plan or to the future status of any of its brands. GM is continuing to review its restructuring plan to go further and faster and best ensure its future success. Additional information will be released as any decisions are finalized.

Now why would they bother if they're shutting the doors tomorrow.

[Da Burb]

Just heard on the news....21,000 jobs and Pontiac to get axed.

[Hamico]

What I am worried about is Holden jobs that could be lost over this...:flipoff:

.

[Road Warrior]

Not good at all.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/27/news/companies/gm_announcement/index.htm


Automaker also makes formal offer to bondholders to swap $27 billion in its debt for stock, and confirms plans to drop Pontiac brand in effort to avoid bankruptcy.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors announced plans to cut 23,000 U.S. jobs by 2011, drop its storied Pontiac brand and slash 40% of its dealer network in its latest bid to stay out of bankruptcy.

GM also announced an offer to its bondholders to swap $27 billion of the company's unsecured debt for stock. GM is offering bondholders 225 shares of its stock for every $1,000 it owes the bondholders in principal. The move will greatly dilute the value of GM shares held by current stockholders.

Still, shares of GM (GM, Fortune 500), a component of the Dow Jones industrial average, gained nearly 10% in pre-market trading following the announcement due to hopes that the company will now be able to avoid bankruptcy.

[arcee]

From GM Media:

As part of the revised Viability Plan and the need to move faster and further, GM in the U.S. will focus its resources on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. The Pontiac brand will be phased out by the end of 2010. GM will offer a total of 34 nameplates in 2010, a reduction of 29 percent from 48 nameplates in 2008, reflecting both the reduction in brands and continued emphasis on fewer and stronger entries. This four-brand strategy will enable GM to better focus its new product development programs and provide more competitive levels of market support.

The revised plan moves up the resolution of Saab, Saturn, and Hummer to the end of 2009, at the latest. Updates on these brands will be provided as these initiatives progress.

[Ghia351]

Is there any reason why VE's couldn't be branded as Chevs for the US apart from the obvious of current owners driving "Pontiac badged" VE's which suddenly become Chev branded?

[sKeptiK]

Is there any reason why VE's couldn't be branded as Chevs for the US apart from the obvious of current owners driving "Pontiac badged" VE's which suddenly become Chev branded?

It would take sales from the just launched Camaro wouldn't it and what would you call it??

Could it work for Cadillac?

[planetdavo]

It would take sales from the just launched Camaro wouldn't it and what would you call it??

I can't see much cross over shopping between the 4 door VE and the 2 door Camaro. Two very different types of cars, even if they share much of their chassis and drivelines.

[vzss05]

You would hope for Holdens sake GM see what a good vehicle the VE is and rebrand it, otherwise 30,000 cars less to be made at Holden each year. How many more jobs at Holden and local parts manufactures will be lost if that happens???


Not good news at all!!!!

August can't come fact enough when my lease runs out so I can put a shiny NEW VE in my driveway and do my bit

[Carby650]

Is there any reason why VE's couldn't be branded as Chevs for the US apart from the obvious of current owners driving "Pontiac badged" VE's which suddenly become Chev branded?

Problem is that GM have said they don't have the money to market the car properly.
Also they said even though it is a very good car they cant sell them at the moment.
From the ABC web site

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/28/2554181.htm

cheers
Carby650

[shakows]

From the above article

Only half of the 25,000 G8s delivered to the US have been sold.

Thats going to be tough work to sell them now

[dmenace]

Don't believe those figures. They have sold 21,000 of them.

[shakows]

Ok, I thought it sounded wrong

I had heard they had there best month last month selling the G8

[Rub]

The deed is done.. (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25397459-661,00.html)

[mutual_master]

http://www.motorauthority.com/pontiacs-future-reportedly-uncertain.html

Yep Pontiac is gone and so is the G8. I would have thought GM could replace the frumpy FWD Impala with the G8 - oh well. Another blow to Holden :(

[Holden Man]

How could such a fine brand of cars die like this ?

They probably made the best cars in the world...
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tuoVnnL-fc)
(I did say probably) :jester:

Commodore should have been badged as a chev from the start. Oh well the yanks miss out on a great handling, fairly well built, performance sedan at a bargain price.

[teamkiwi]

Is there any reason why VE's couldn't be branded as Chevs for the US apart from the obvious of current owners driving "Pontiac badged" VE's which suddenly become Chev branded?

I dont see way they couldnt rebadge it as a Chevrolet Lumina especailly when the VF come out, as itr would help differeniate it from the G8. I beleive that the Camaro would actually help boost the future Commodore sales as you could market it as car with caramo like performace with the benefit of 4 doors. It would also allow they them to lauch the ute/El Camino more successfully as well.

[NRD80Y]

I dont see way they couldnt rebadge it as a Chevrolet Lumina especailly when the VF come out, as itr would help differeniate it from the G8. I beleive that the Camaro would actually help boost the future Commodore sales as you could market it as car with caramo like performace with the benefit of 4 doors. It would also allow they them to lauch the ute/El Camino more successfully as well.
At least then Holden wouldn't have to bother changing any of the exterior (eg: front bumber, hood).

Maybe this is the reason that cancelled the Pontiac ST Ute. They knew that Pontiac was getting canned and decided to move them over to Chev (well here's hoping anyway)

[theVman]

I dont see way they couldnt rebadge it as a Chevrolet Lumina especailly when the VF come out, as itr would help differeniate it from the G8. I beleive that the Camaro would actually help boost the future Commodore sales as you could market it as car with caramo like performace with the benefit of 4 doors. It would also allow they them to lauch the ute/El Camino more successfully as well.


It would make sense wouldn't it. But we know GM wont do that. :1peek:

[Pickles]

I saw a Pontiac G8 on the Frankston Freeway yesterday---vented bonnet, big LHD sign on rear window etc....must be still doing some R & D.
I think I read that they're going to produce these cars until mid 2010, but like others on this forum, I can't see why they don't rebadge & promote it. I mean it's not as if it's a "Yank Tank" or the like....it's positively frugal compared to what the Yanks have had in the past.....so I would have thought that with the right publicity, it would have still been popular enough in the U.S. to make its production in Adelaide worthwhile.....evidently not.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Road Warrior]

Maybe this is the reason that cancelled the Pontiac ST Ute. They knew that Pontiac was getting canned and decided to move them over to Chev (well here's hoping anyway)

lol, you can bet your bottom dollar they knew when the ST was cancelled they were going to shitcan Pontiac! More big auto smoke and mirrors.

Also, what happened to the Caprice and Stato being sent to the US as the Chevy Caprice? I would have thought it would have been a gimme...they wouldnt have to change much, and with the DI V6 motors already in the stable it would/could have been economical...

[buickman]

How could such a fine brand of cars die like this ?

They probably made the best cars in the world...
[
Commodore should have been badged as a chev from the start. Oh well the yanks miss out on a great handling, fairly well built, performance sedan at a bargain price.

Yep the Holden should have been market though another division of GM either Chev or Buick as Pontiac has been selling very average cars for a while execpt for the Monaro GTO from Australia a comment of a American motoring journo about Pontiacs attempt to make a SUV the AZTEK


I was in the audience at the Detroit auto show the day GM unveiled the Pontiac Aztek and I will never forget the gasp that audience made. Holy hell! This car could not have been more instantly hated if it had a Swastika tattoo on its forehead. In later interviews with GM designers — who, for decency's sake, will remain unnamed — it emerged that the Aztek design had been fiddled with, fussed over, cost-shaved and otherwise compromised until the tough, cool-looking concept had been reduced to a bulky, plastic-clad mess. A classic case of losing the plot. The Aztek violates one of the principal rules of car design: We like cars that look like us. With its multiple eyes and supernumerary nostrils, the Aztek looks deformed and scary, something that dogs bark at and cathedrals employ to ring bells (cf., Fiat Multipla). The shame is, under all that ugliness, there was a useful, competent crossover.
[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f171/ioannid/914.jpg[/IMG

[HSVDKB]

Man that is one ugly vehicle :spew:

[OzJavelin]

Yep the Holden should have been market though another division of GM either Chev or Buick as Pontiac has been selling very average cars for a while execpt for the Monaro GTO ..

I thought the original reason why Holdens were being sold as Pontiacs was specifically because Pontiac needed the image lift ... a sad state of affairs for the brand that bought us the GTO, 421SD, TransAm, etc ...

[buickman]

I thought the original reason why Holdens were being sold as Pontiacs was specifically because Pontiac needed the image lift ... a sad state of affairs for the brand that bought us the GTO, 421SD, TransAm, etc ...

I know it’s sad with Pontiacs history to see them gone but they should have been killed of in 2002 with Oldsmobile the oldest GM division as both divisions were marketing cars no one wants for many years.
Pontiac then start selling cars that were not made in the US as a US modern muscle car through a division that had not sold anything half decent for over 20 years.

Buick is lucky it’s still surviving but I suppose GM needs to have a brand in between the Cadillac and Chevy brands

[Rick76]

Why do they even need Buick if they have Chev and Cadillac?

Once they get rid of SAAB and Hummer they should just have two brands in the US and concentrate on making some decent cars.

Cadillac (Luxury) and Chev (everything else including GMC trucks).

[macca_779]

Why do they even need Buick if they have Chev and Cadillac?

Once they get rid of SAAB and Hummer they should just have two brands in the US and concentrate on making some decent cars.

Cadillac (Luxury) and Chev (everything else including GMC trucks).

Hey don't knock Buick man. The LaCrosse is a pretty cool family hack. DI Alloytech and AWD in a nice looking body. Some cool gadgets in them too that Holden sure don't have.

Chev as far as passenger cars go are generally very bland.

[Desertws6]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f171/ioannid/914.jpg[

This is one of the ugliest things to ever come out of Detroit!!

Part of the problem is GM marketing and not listening to what the consumers actually want. Also, not advertising certain models. A commercial that was never shown on TV, but was part of the mailed marketing materials only. And only available by placing a call to GM and requesting the material. The package includes a sales brochure and a VHS tape.

1998 commercial 1st half. Second half could be better. IMO
YouTube - Firebird Trans Am Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZeSMsafbjQ)

I bought one!
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm205/stevespontiacgarage/SANY0180.jpg
2002 WS6 Pontiac Trans Am
btw: The bonnet has functional ram air with a factory OTR.


Cheers,
Steve

[Mikey]

Buick is lucky it’s still surviving but I suppose GM needs to have a brand in between the Cadillac and Chevy brands

Why do they even need Buick if they have Chev and Cadillac?Mate go to China and have a look, Buick is going gangbusters there atm. They have built up a considerable reputation for size prestige and style. They love them and everybody wants one, either a Buick or a VW/Audi.

[buickman]

This is one of the ugliest things to ever come out of Detroit!!

Part of the problem is GM marketing and not listening to what the consumers actually want. Also, not advertising certain models. A commercial that was never shown on TV, but was part of the mailed marketing materials only. And only available by placing a call to GM and requesting the material. The package includes a sales brochure and a VHS tape.

1998 commercial 1st half. Second half could be better. IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZeSMsafbjQ

I bought one!
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm205/stevespontiacgarage/SANY0180.jpg
2002 WS6 Pontiac Trans Am
btw: The bonnet has functional ram air with a factory OTR.


Cheers,
Steve

Sorry Steve I forgot about the Later Trans Ams because whenever I've visited the US all I see is the POS 4cyl and 6cyl FWD GrandAms and Grand Prix in Alamos rental yards.
The Later Transams are not that common on the roads over there so I never gave them a thought
But in saying that their marketing of their decent cars must have very low keyed

[Desertws6]

Sorry Steve I forgot about the Later Trans Ams because whenever I've visited the US all I see is the POS 4cyl and 6cyl FWD GrandAms and Grand Prix in Alamos rental yards.
The Later Transams are not that common on the roads over there so I never gave them a thought
But in saying that their marketing of their decent cars must have very low keyed

No Worries Buickman! :)

GM marketing has never been equal with all models.

I agree with you. I do also own a 05 Grand Prix as a daily driver. It's fine for the daily grind, but it lacking in excitement. It's FWD with a V6, has a nice ride with 4 wheel independant suspension and is fine for the usual stop and go traffic. But as usual with FWD it suffers from too much over steer. There is one offered with a 5.3l V8 (GXP), but still FWD. It may be fine for the straight line, but the corner would be a killer. :lol:

If GM changed that V8 to RWD, the car would be a major hit.

I bought the cheap GP because it seats 5 adults and my mother in law is aging and uses a walker. The rear doors open almost a full 90 degrees. And the boot seems to fit a fair bit of luggage. On the highway @ 75mph (120kph) it gets 7.87/ 100km.
I would much rather have a car like this take the door dings and shopping trolley hits than a good car. If it was to get stolen, at least this is very easily replaced.

The V8's are always clean and ready for the weekend. :)

Cheers,
Steve

[Martin_D]

But as usual with FWD it suffers from too much over steer.....

Wouldnt that be nice....you should be exporting them over here :lol:

[Desertws6]

Wouldnt that be nice....you should be exporting them over here :lol:

:doh: Understeer is the correct term! :lol: Thanks Tuna!