Lowering a VZ Calais.

[RSK]

G'Day,

Have a VZ Calais running 20s with 245/30R20 tyres. much would it cost to have it as low as the Calais in the photo below? And, what work would be involved (guards rolled, coil covers, etc?)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6757/sidenc4.jpg

[zaim]

you got pics of it not lowered? i too have a vz calais with the stock fe2 suspension, and would like to see pics of how your ride is not lowered as im thinking about getting new wheels soon

[RSK]

Yo zaim. Yeah, i've seen your Calais around the forum abit. Must say it made my decision easier when i was decided what car i wanted. I'm at work at the moment, so no photos, but i'll take one when i get home and put it on here. Currently have Paranomal Incubus rims for it. I hated these rims when i first saw them, but the chrome on the black VZ works so well with the rims.

Took a few photos on my phone after work:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6673/07052009666.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/159/07052009662.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9127/07052009665.jpg

[zaim]

Hey bud! Glad my car gave you insight for your decision :-) I see it as a best bang for buck car with all its features and very sexy design. But yeah, those rims really REALLY match the whole decoy of the car, black and silver fit perfectly! A slight lower will definitely finish off the look.. and some tinted windows of course :-)

[VZMY06SS]

Hey mate, I run a set of SS-V 19's with 35 profile rubber on them on my VZ SS and have had mine slightly lower than the one that first post (TEIN coilovers withe the spacers removed at the rear).
All you need to do with regards to making the wheels fit is roll the guards fairly well. If your half handy with a spanner you could probably do this yourself as there are a few threads on how to go about it on this site. Only trouble I had with space on my setup was when I was running a 40 profile rear. Under hard acceleration the rear tires were touching the rear guards. The touch was minimal, buy I put 35 profile tires back on as soon as I realized.
Regarding price, I would just get a set of lovels, king or pedders springs, no need for coil overs if your only worried about height. Up to you if you want to get a set of shocks at the same time.
Should look good lowered on those rims. Definitely needs at least a good inch drop all round..
Steve

[Pedders]

G'Day,

Have a VZ Calais running 20s with 245/30R20 tyres. much would it cost to have it as low as the Calais in the photo below? And, what work would be involved (guards rolled, coil covers, etc?)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6757/sidenc4.jpg

Hi RSK,
If you are only looking for a small amount of drop then 4 coils are your best option but I would be recommending shocks as well. You are fitting wheels that will significantly reduce tyre to body clearances. VSMY06SS had some issues with 19's and you are going for 20's this means even less available space when wheel offsets and tyres are taken into account. Rolling guards etc can stop the contact being made during some driving situations but you need to ensure that you have sufficient clearance available if the suspension compress' fully.(pothole, speed humps and the like, we have all hit one hard at sometime)

People are often under the impression that fitting hard shocks and springs will stop the car from making contact with the body but they will not. They will still allow the suspension to fully compress so tyre and body work can still make contact in certain circumstances. Fitting sports shocks as well as springs provides an additional level of control that older shocks may not by reducing the rate at which the suspension travels and help to reduce the severity and incidence of contact.

Fitting coil overs though more expensive will provide additional clearance on the inboard side as they are a small overall diameter and have heavier coils and adjustable shock valving which increases all the benefits I just mentioned in the paragraph above along with a great ride.

Before doing anything I would suggest a visit to your local Pedders store so you can see our products for yourself and discuss the lowering Vs clearance issue in more detail.

Hope this is of some assistance and make sure you put up some pics when you have your suspension fitted up.

Scott Prior

[Rub]

Why not just create a coilover that is non-adjustable? So you take a strut and modify it which enables you to fit the smaller diameter spring? This would be perfect for people who want to have their car nice and low and not have the clearance issues.

Just a thought..

[Pedders]

Why not just create a coilover that is non-adjustable? So you take a strut and modify it which enables you to fit the smaller diameter spring? This would be perfect for people who want to have their car nice and low and not have the clearance issues.

Just a thought..

Not quite sure what you mean.
1-Did you want shocks without any adjustment and just smaller OD coils
2-Adjsutable height coils and no shock valving adjustment.
3-Modified O.E. struts that use smaller OD coils.

Scott

[Rub]

3-Modified O.E. struts that use smaller OD coils.

[Pedders]

3-Modified O.E. struts that use smaller OD coils.

Sorry for the delayed response but I currently working on a project that is rather time consuming at the moment.

Yes you could modify O.E. units.

There are products available that can be fitted to modify existing struts into coil overs (I am sure these have been covered in other threads across various forums). Just adding a smaller coil that is a fixed lowered height will only gain some inboard clearance. You will still have the same issue of reduced bump stop clearance as you have when fitting normal lowered coils. To reduce this means shortening the strut body and then finding a replacement insert that will fit in the now shorter body.

These are not generally available and will add the cost of the job as well if they are a special build.(Pedders do not shorten cartridges. Do not confuse short stroke with short body as they are two different things. A short stroke shock can have the same body length as a normal length one.)

Achieve more inboard clearance can generate issues of its own. Gaining more room in board can allow larger wheels to be fitted but it will do nothing to prevent outside contact between the body and the wheel. If the outside clearance is increased by fitment of different offset wheel that pulled the wheel inboard, you could then experience alignment / handling issues generated by the repositioned centreline of the wheel in relation to the other fixed steering angles that are built into the car.

If you are interested in investigating modified struts, have a chat to your local Pedders store about the available options. From our experience and customer feedback the fully adjustable shock has been the most widely requested unit and the best bang for your buck available at this time.

Scott

[calais190]

i have the same car and have also considered lowering, but my local mechanic advised me that no matter what camber kit, the rear tyres never sit flat with the road after lowering... and also, once the car is lowered, more pressure sits into the diff, and that pressure can cause diff problems... is this true? and if so, what is the combination of springs and shocks that would minimise or solve this?

[Luke_]

Sounds like your mechanic doesn't 100% know what he is talking about.

The diff's in our late model VQ-VZ IRS are mounted solid to the chassis and cross-member, they have no direct contact with the trailing arm movement.

He may be talking about the half-shafts entering the diff further, which they do slightly when lowered, however no different to hitting a pothole and bottoming out on standard height suspension.

Regards,
Luke

[Pedders]

i have the same car and have also considered lowering, but my local mechanic advised me that no matter what camber kit, the rear tyres never sit flat with the road after lowering... and also, once the car is lowered, more pressure sits into the diff, and that pressure can cause diff problems... is this true? and if so, what is the combination of springs and shocks that would minimise or solve this?

The diff will not be an issue as previously posted.

Your tyres will never sit flat but they do not sit completely flat from the factory either.
The camber and toe angles on the tyres change continuously as the suspension moves through it travel. This is however excentuated through lowering and rear alignment adjusting kits are used is to reduce this to an acceptable amount.

As to the right shocks and springs for your car this is a liitle more involved. I could just say whack these parts in and you will be sweet but that would not be fair to you.

If you call into you local Pedders store and speak with the staff there about your car and what you want to achieve from your suspension changes. They will be able to discuss your options, show you various products and then tailor a suspension package that best suits your needs as against the one we think you may want from reading this.

We prefer to get to know people as we find that this always build a better relationship and in turn a better result for the customers.

Scott

[calais190]

LUKE@WSP, thanks for clearing that up with me.. and yes he did mean the half shats putting more pressure on the diff... but i haven't heard many cases of diffs breaking, i just wanted to clarify!... and as for camber, the wheels will never sit flat again, but does that mean the inside section of the tread will always wear out?

PEDDERS, thanks for your reply. it makes sense, and is heaps logical.. thanks for clearing that up for me.. ill have to look through the wallet and see what i can come up with..

thanks again for your time!

[Pedders]

LUKE@WSP, thanks for clearing that up with me.. and yes he did mean the half shats putting more pressure on the diff... but i haven't heard many cases of diffs breaking, i just wanted to clarify!... and as for camber, the wheels will never sit flat again, but does that mean the inside section of the tread will always wear out?

PEDDERS, thanks for your reply. it makes sense, and is heaps logical.. thanks for clearing that up for me.. ill have to look through the wallet and see what i can come up with..

thanks again for your time!

You will always get inside edge wear with the rear end design as it is. The trick with the alignemnt kits is to minimise this as much as possible. In many cases it is the toe being out significantly that really does the tyre damage.

Unfortunately due to a lack of knowledge about this isue by many drivers the blame is placed squarely on the camber when it is primarily the toe. Having high neg camber will wear the tyres but if the toe is correct the tyres do not show anything like the wear you would expect.

Note...Wear patterns do become more visible on cars that have larger tyre and wheel combinations.

Regards

Scott

[DUB]

It's true big diameter rims and short walled tyres with any amount of camber will wear out their inner edge quicker than the rest of the tyre. Mainly as they require a lot more pressure for proper inflation, and the short sidewall doesn't flex as much so keeps pushing that inner edge harder into the road surface.
Toe tends to scrub the tyre more making it wear more again. Thrust angle in the IRS has to be set pointing a little inwards to help make the back end push in a straight line too.

The main thing I found with trying to set up the back end on the VZ Calais over the VY ute is they have another control rod attached to the lower arm making close to vertical camber adjustment at low ride height levels pretty much impossible, even with a full eccentric bush camber kit fitted. If you want to run nice and low it's just something you'll have to deal with. Roughly 30,000kays per set of tyres with normal driving is pretty achievable though.

Here's how low my Calais was on 19" rims>>>

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6797/dynoday060c3large.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9572/28102007070.jpg

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6002/03112007089.jpg