any benitfit with a k&n panel filter in a ve?

[skippy2000]

guys looking at putting a k&n panel filter in my ve ss...
In every car i have had i have done this and seen no benifit but evry1 says i will notice it in a v8 ??
any suggestions?

[Evman]

I'd hold off and save up for an OTR mate :) Very marginal gains from the filter, if any. It's the whole intake that needs to be upgraded to really notice anything :)

[05DKNG]

hey mate i had a flat panel in my ss, i did notice a fairly big difference with response, also better fuel economy. At the same time i drilled 5 of so 22mm holes in bottom of box and the induction roar was massive. Good, cheap, noticable mod IMO. :)

[tyrhantc]

Mate if youre thinking about an OTR soon I would hold off too but if not then go the K&N...anything that helps the engine breathe a bit better is a good thing.

[boyley]

In a word ZERO, ZILCH, NYET, SFA, as Evman says get an OTR its only $600 more, keep saving

[HRT 8]

The only people telling you to get one will be the same ones that spent the $140 odd bucks and are trying to justify the expense to themselves.

Its been proven many times before that the standard paper filter is more than adequate.

[SHANESVZSS]

+ 1 for otr......

[surfwagon]

Also using the K&N oiled filter in a car still running MAF tune the oil can contaminate the MAF which usually makes the car run richer and they already run pretty rich from the factory.
Go Mafless.

[skippy2000]

ok got no problem spending the $$ on a otr. But noticed alot of the guys on here say ill have to tune it?
im just after the induction noise etc? I have also seen a few complaints with the otr needing to go mafless because of the inlet temp??
i was trying to keep this as stock as i can with a few easy mods... i dont want to go out modding it making big power with every1 telling me its safe and blowing a short time later like my previous ride "WRX"

[duke5700]

ok got no problem spending the $$ on a otr. But noticed alot of the guys on here say ill have to tune it?
im just after the induction noise etc? I have also seen a few complaints with the otr needing to go mafless because of the inlet temp??
i was trying to keep this as stock as i can with a few easy mods... i dont want to go out modding it making big power with every1 telling me its safe and blowing a short time later like my previous ride "WRX"

nothing like a WRX my friend. A set of pipes, a decent intake and tune is perfect.

[wyd_trkr]

The only people telling you to get one will be the same ones that spent the $140 odd bucks and are trying to justify the expense to themselves.

Its been proven many times before that the standard paper filter is more than adequate.Excuse me, but can you be a little more informative and explain to us older gearheads where you think or know a paper filter is more efficient in our G8 GT's, verses a Proven & Tested K&N Filter or S&B , or other Filters on the market for our vehicles?

[Evman]

Because the major restriction in the intake is the intake itself. The filter accounts for some, the intake tubing, filter box, noise chambers etc for the most part.

[wyd_trkr]

Also using the K&N oiled filter in a car still running MAF tune the oil can contaminate the MAF which usually makes the car run richer and they already run pretty rich from the factory.
Go Mafless.From all reports I have read from the people in the know, maybe 1 out of 10 performance vehicle owners might have this problem, because of over oiling of the filter from the factory. However most of us older gearheads always wipe off the excess oil from our filters before installing them.

Hope this helps, as 99% of all paper filters are extremely inadaquate from letting the engine breath more freely, verses a Panel lay in filter, or possibly a Open Cone Filter which gives us between 8 to 15 more horsepower, depending on what engine it is installed upon, be it either Naturally Aspirated or Forced Air Induction type vehicle.

[MYT_05]

8-15 Horsepower from a panal filter only, unlikely. This is more of a figure from a good quality OTR yeah?

If you are serious about it, drop the shit and pick up an OTR end of story. If its all you can afford, then how the hell did you get into a VE? There is no point in having a panel. You are never going to make big power with that style of induction anyway. That is undeniable.

[wyd_trkr]

8-15 Horsepower from a panal filter only, unlikely. This is more of a figure from a good quality OTR yeah?

If you are serious about it, drop the shit and pick up an OTR end of story. If its all you can afford, then how the hell did you get into a VE? There is no point in having a panel. You are never going to make big power with that style of induction anyway. That is undeniable.Excuse me Mate, as evidently you did not read my reply in relation to horsepower rating differences with using either a Panel ( up to 8 HP ) or a Cone ( up to 15 HP ) increase in power over any factory paper filter on the market today. These horsepower increases can and will vary between Naturally Aspirated & Forced Air Induction type vehicles.

As for use of a Panel or Cone Filter, I can actually write the book on performance gains, as I do own and sell performance products on and off the Internet. I also have been into Racing Performance well over 45 years.

Aftermarket or Panel or Cone Filter Applications are a personal preference by anyone that owns any type vehicle, be it performance or not. Hope this helps, as I am not trying to Debate this issue with anyone, just posting Tested & Proven results...;)

[steve_t]

From all reports I have read from the people in the know, maybe 1 out of 10 performance vehicle owners might have this problem, because of over oiling of the filter from the factory. However most of us older gearheads always wipe off the excess oil from our filters before installing them.

Hope this helps, as 99% of all paper filters are extremely inadaquate from letting the engine breath more freely, verses a Panel lay in filter, or possibly a Open Cone Filter which gives us between 8 to 15 more horsepower, depending on what engine it is installed upon, be it either Naturally Aspirated or Forced Air Induction type vehicle.

I'm 1 of your 1 in 10. I got a K&N panel for my Subie and was worried about the excess oil so blotted a lot away. The majority of the excess came from the intake side!!! I wondered if they'd oiled the wrong side.
Anyway, a few months later it chucked a CEL saying the MAF was rooted. Had to get a new one as the isopropyl alcohol only worked for a short while. I've since gone back to stock standard paper filters (which are also lightly oiled) and noticed no performance drop.
I have also heard that K&N panel filters yield minimal gains as the intake itself and noise reduction chambers provide the most resistance to flow... not the filter element itself. I'm happy to see some back to back dyno's where a panel filter replacement increases HP significantly tho :)

[wyd_trkr]

I'm 1 of your 1 in 10. I got a K&N panel for my Subie and was worried about the excess oil so blotted a lot away. The majority of the excess came from the intake side!!! I wondered if they'd oiled the wrong side.
Anyway, a few months later it chucked a CEL saying the MAF was rooted. Had to get a new one as the isopropyl alcohol only worked for a short while. I've since gone back to stock standard paper filters (which are also lightly oiled) and noticed no performance drop.
I have also heard that K&N panel filters yield minimal gains as the intake itself and noise reduction chambers provide the most resistance to flow... not the filter element itself. I'm happy to see some back to back dyno's where a panel filter replacement increases HP significantly tho :)

FYI, check this out and enjoy the information:

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm

Also: http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm

Also: http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm

[boyley]

FYI, check this out and enjoy the information:

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm

Also: http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm

Also: http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm

Mate theres no argument K&N filters are good. We are just saying from expereince, to just replace the filter in the VE cars is a waste of time and money............ end of.

[steve_t]

Read those pages a million times before.
I was hoping for an actual dyno by someone who wasn't the manufacturer or associated party... perhaps a local party who I will know is independent.

I thought that having a 'hot wire' MAF would also make me less likely to have a MAF problem as it heats up for a bit when you turn the car off to burn off any crud... didn't help.
My experience is purely anecdotal but there are many many anecdotes similar to mine. There must have been some issues raised or they wouldn't have multiple pages on their website regarding the MAF myth.

I'd have no worries with a K&N filter if I was going MAFless :goodjob:

[duke5700]

Excuse me Mate, as evidently you did not read my reply in relation to horsepower rating differences with using either a Panel ( up to 8 HP ) or a Cone ( up to 15 HP ) increase in power over any factory paper filter on the market today. These horsepower increases can and will vary between Naturally Aspirated & Forced Air Induction type vehicles.

As for use of a Panel or Cone Filter, I can actually write the book on performance gains, as I do own and sell performance products on and off the Internet. I also have been into Racing Performance well over 45 years.

Aftermarket or Panel or Cone Filter Applications are a personal preference by anyone that owns any type vehicle, be it performance or not. Hope this helps, as I am not trying to Debate this issue with anyone, just posting Tested & Proven results...;)


Sorry but excuse us, in the real world on a the only dyno worth measuring the drag strip a K&N filter does diddly squat. The other intake restrictions need to be removed to be of any benefit. Take your advertising dribble that you have never tested and go away.

Silly seppo.

[Ausmartin1]

Excuse me, but can you be a little more informative and explain to us older gearheads where you think or know a paper filter is more efficient in our G8 GT's, verses a Proven & Tested K&N Filter or S&B , or other Filters on the market for our vehicles?

The ONLY thing proven about K&N Filters is they filter less, so flow more "initially" but then quickly clog compared to a standard OEM paper filter.
So If you run MAF it gets oiled and screws the input to the engine managment system.
So the POINT of "proven K&N Marketing" Is? please explain ...............
I agree with others that the Intake mods actually work in comparison.:goodjob:

[wyd_trkr]

The ONLY thing proven about K&N Filters is they filter less, so flow more "initially" but then quickly clog compared to a standard OEM paper filter.
So If you run MAF it gets oiled and screws the input to the engine managment system.
So the POINT of "proven K&N Marketing" Is? please explain ...............
I agree with others that the Intake mods actually work in comparison.:goodjob:Hey Mates, I do not work for K&N, but have used their products for years without any problems on my vehicles and as well as my own customers vehicles without any problems.

I thought that a Forum was for sharing good information about performance products and information about our cars, excuse me for even trying to share information, when someone else was talking about K&N Filters and I was just sharing some helpful input here.

It is really a shame when some others get really "Anal" when someone comes in to share information on the Forum. From now on I will keep my comments to myself.

BTW, for some interesting parties, here is my own website in which I own and have been running for the past 10 years. www.southfloridapulley.com This is not an advertisement` but it is to let people know I have been into performance for many years!

[Ausmartin1]

[QUOTE=wyd_trkr;1518118] From now on I will keep my comments to myself.

Please don't get upset like this - it's a forum and every one has a right to a point of view.

We all read reports / information and form an opinion, some of us including myself are very harsh on a number of performance products as we have read technical lab tests that form my scepticle views on some of the claims made by certain companies for their products.
I personally get a little cranky when products don't do better in "all" technical areas from OEM ones. My moto is if your paying a lot more so it should be.

So cheers for the website and input & please don't let us stop you for having your input / views! :woot:

[steve_t]

Hey Mates, I do not work for K&N, but have used their products for years without any problems on my vehicles and as well as my own customers vehicles without any problems.

I thought that a Forum was for sharing good information about performance products and information about our cars, excuse me for even trying to share information, when someone else was talking about K&N Filters and I was just sharing some helpful input here.

It is really a shame when some others get really "Anal" when someone comes in to share information on the Forum. From now on I will keep my comments to myself.

BTW, for some interesting parties, here is my own website in which I own and have been running for the past 10 years. www.southfloridapulley.com This is not an advertisement` but it is to let people know I have been into performance for many years!

Yes, a forum is for sharing information and experience. It's also a place where people can easily disseminate misinformation - mostly this tends to be people regurgitating facts or comments from others without actually having had 1st hand experience. I'm just as guilty as everyone else in doing this :rofl: I doubt you'll be able to get 100% agreement on any subject. Please don't let other people's disagreement stop you from contributing to the forum. Instead, try to present evidence that supports your argument. If you have a dyno sheet that you've done yourself that shows an 8hp increase just by changing to a K&N panel filter, please post it. I think a lot of us would love to be shown that it works.... but the skeptics among us are doubtful. Interesting that there haven't been comments from the tuners on here.

[Peter B - CV8]

I think they all flow around the same. I have a K&N filter panel because I plan on keeping the monaro for a long time. Will therefore save a few $$$ in not having to replace the standard paper element.

[MaDDoG]

I think they all flow around the same. I have a K&N filter panel because I plan on keeping the monaro for a long time. Will therefore save a few $$$ in not having to replace the standard paper element.

I have K&N also. Cleaned the xcess oil off pre install. Only cost me $80 from eBay soits not a huge cost over what Holden will charge for the paper filters they fit each service. I may have a good imagination but I feel that there is a slight power increase, better response and more sound from the K&N.
My 2 cents worth.:)

[aedeau]

I have K&N also. Cleaned the xcess oil off pre install. Only cost me $80 from eBay soits not a huge cost over what Holden will charge for the paper filters they fit each service. I may have a good imagination but I feel that there is a slight power increase, better response and more sound from the K&N.
My 2 cents worth.:)

I'm thinking about getting a k&n panel filter. I've seen the ones on ebay for $70-80 as well. How do you open the airbox? Do you need to unscrew the maf hose clamp?

I'll probably look at replacing the pipe into the throttle body at some stage with something a bit more free flow, but just not right now.

[steve_t]

I'm thinking about getting a k&n panel filter. I've seen the ones on ebay for $70-80 as well. How do you open the airbox? Do you need to unscrew the maf hose clamp?

I'll probably look at replacing the pipe into the throttle body at some stage with something a bit more free flow, but just not right now.

The airbox is held shut by, IIRC, 3 metal clips. Undo those and you're away laughing :goodjob:
Let us know how you go.... I'm still a skeptic (as you've probably been reading) :rofl:

[VX2VESS]

flow a bit more, increase wear bit more..

hold one up to a bright light and see the small gaps esp after cleaning it

[DukeZ]

i run a k&n oiled filter and i have my car tuned mafless and there s obvioulsly a masve difference the 2hole box mod also helps and being fed by he monaro cold air intake box thing.....my mate has a vzss ute with otr and we have been on the strip and tbh there isnt not a massive amount of difference me being slightly quicker...altho my tune is off tha charts and by jezza

[spinr33]

The main benefit of k and n panels are they can be cleaned over and over and will flow more depending on how much oil u put on it, their are other replacements available non oiled but cleanable DRIFT make a dry washable airfilter their is also other dry oils avaialable like PJ1 which can be sprayed onto a filter once washed and decrease the micron size of the airfilter making it still filter well put not let oil pass onto the afm etc.
Most people find a good increase in power because they are replacing their dirty airfilter with a clean item but generally any ryco airfilter equivelent will cost around $18-$25 where and k and n around $99 and a drift around the $80-$85 dollar amount if u own the car for 2 or more years the aircleaner pays for itself.Based on replacing the airfilter 2 times a year over 2 years.

Regards Rory (Autobarn Ballarat)

[smokey777]

i seen the filter in ve today its white, fluffy & thick never seen one like it

[aedeau]

The airbox is held shut by, IIRC, 3 metal clips. Undo those and you're away laughing :goodjob:
Let us know how you go.... I'm still a skeptic (as you've probably been reading) :rofl:

Yeh, I bought one from autobarn today. $100 on "special". There were 4 clips on the airbox.

My average fuel economy today before I put the k&n on (based on 15,000kms) was 15.4L/100kms. It's now 11.2L/100kms. That figure is somewhat exaggerated as I did a bit of freeway driving today after I installed the filter (approx. 200kms of mostly freeway driving). I'll let you know what the average fuel consumption at the end of next week after I've been sitting in peak hr traffic through the week.

To me, there doesn't appear to be any difference in induction noise or power, but I definitely think fuel economy on the freeway has improved. It ranges between 5.6ish-11L/100kms now, previously on the same freeway trip (M1) it was around 10-13L/100kms.

I figure that if the filter nets me a 2L/100km improvement in fuel economy, it should pay for itself pretty quickly based on the price of vpower ($1.30/L).

[05guy]

8-15 Horsepower from a panal filter only, unlikely. This is more of a figure from a good quality OTR yeah?

If you are serious about it, drop the shit and pick up an OTR end of story. If its all you can afford, then how the hell did you get into a VE? There is no point in having a panel. You are never going to make big power with that style of induction anyway. That is undeniable.
Not all of us are interested in making MAX power out of our cars. Speaking for myself i just want nice exhaust note/intake noise. I'll leave the power thing for the 57.

[Martin_D]

I know in our testing the best filtration and lowest pressure drop comes from the stock filter element. Its not rocket science....log the kpa of the engine at WOT with the stock filter, log it at WOT with the oiled cotton, and if there is no difference here, then there is no difference anywhere. As well, the oil film can skew the MAF readings somewhat over time and cause rough running. You have been warned :)

[CBH Senator]

Yeh, I bought one from autobarn today. $100 on "special". There were 4 clips on the airbox.

My average fuel economy today before I put the k&n on (based on 15,000kms) was 15.4L/100kms. It's now 11.2L/100kms. That figure is somewhat exaggerated as I did a bit of freeway driving today after I installed the filter (approx. 200kms of mostly freeway driving). I'll let you know what the average fuel consumption at the end of next week after I've been sitting in peak hr traffic through the week.

To me, there doesn't appear to be any difference in induction noise or power, but I definitely think fuel economy on the freeway has improved. It ranges between 5.6ish-11L/100kms now, previously on the same freeway trip (M1) it was around 10-13L/100kms.

I figure that if the filter nets me a 2L/100km improvement in fuel economy, it should pay for itself pretty quickly based on the price of vpower ($1.30/L).

aedeau - I am a first time V8/HSV owner, so wouldn't presume to tell you how to suck eggs, but it seems odd to me that with such big gains available, HSV would do this small upgrade themselves?

They spend big money developing MRC and soon to be fitted AFM for economy, surely they would have hit this earlier if it really has these gains?

I'm wondering whether the changes you're experincing might be due to the engine running in or other external factors?

I'll watch your results next week with intrest to see how the extended traffic fuel economy goes. Pls let us know.

[aedeau]

aedeau - I am a first time V8/HSV owner, so wouldn't presume to tell you how to suck eggs, but it seems odd to me that with such big gains available, HSV would do this small upgrade themselves?

They spend big money developing MRC and soon to be fitted AFM for economy, surely they would have hit this earlier if it really has these gains?

I'm wondering whether the changes you're experincing might be due to the engine running in or other external factors?

I'll watch your results next week with intrest to see how the extended traffic fuel economy goes. Pls let us know.


Hey there, this is my first v8 as well, previously I had a BMW diesel and before that a mini cooper s (turbo 4 cylinder). I love the instant power of a v8, but not so much the fuel economy. My engine has done over 15,000kms, should it still be running in? I took it for its first paid service about 3 weeks ago.

There shouldn't be any external factors, as I haven't changed anything else. My fuel consumption figure as of this morning is 13.6L/100km, which is still lower than it was. I drive in peak hr traffic to and from work, so that 13.6L average figure takes that into account. Also, given that school has started back up again and traffic is heavier than it was over the past couple of weeks, I'm quite surprised that I'm getting a 13L average, given it was 15.4L when the roads were clear last week.

I'll post an update on Sunday, after 1 week of usage doing my normal day to day stuff.

[steve_t]

Hey there, this is my first v8 as well, previously I had a BMW diesel and before that a mini cooper s (turbo 4 cylinder). I love the instant power of a v8, but not so much the fuel economy. My engine has done over 15,000kms, should it still be running in? I took it for its first paid service about 3 weeks ago.

There shouldn't be any external factors, as I haven't changed anything else. My fuel consumption figure as of this morning is 13.6L/100km, which is still lower than it was. I drive in peak hr traffic to and from work, so that 13.6L average figure takes that into account. Also, given that school has started back up again and traffic is heavier than it was over the past couple of weeks, I'm quite surprised that I'm getting a 13L average, given it was 15.4L when the roads were clear last week.

I'll post an update on Sunday, after 1 week of usage doing my normal day to day stuff.

Just gotta be wary that the oil coating the MAF doesn't prevent it 'seeing' the air flow too much and lean out the mix to the point of suffering damage. If the MAF doesn't meter correctly, it'll give you better fuel economy cos it thinks there's less air going into the engine than there actually is.
Thanks for your input Street Tuna... I was wondering when a professional was going to add their insights into this matter :goodjob:
But in saying this, there's heaps of people running these without problems so they can't be all bad :rofl:

[Lorne Mauer]

....I figure that if the filter nets me a 2L/100km improvement in fuel economy, it should pay for itself pretty quickly based on the price of vpower ($1.30/L).

on a normal 500km tank range and the prices you've quoted for the filter and the petrol, it will pay for itself by the time you finish the 8th tank of juice. for a daily that could be quite soon so anything after that is $13.00 per 500kms in your skyrocket.:goodjob: if it proves a real gain of 2L /100. you might find a bit more economy with a Tune to go with it and if that picks up another 1L / 100 then the 2 mods will pay for themselves inside a year too.

Feel free to use this data as a bargaining tool with The Minister of War and Finance although I give no guarantee on the quality of my maths.:1peek:

Cheers LM.

[VX2VESS]

http://www.chippedire.com/download/mira.pdf

[steve_t]

http://www.chippedire.com/download/mira.pdf

Good find :goodjob: So the last graph was the one that seemed the most relevant and said that flow was initially better for K&N but that it got clogged relatively quickly (which makes sense with the sticky oil). HOWEVER, that again, it hit home that for a significant reduction in flow resistance, you need to modify by "more radical means" :goodjob:
Guess the K&N guys should think about washing your filters more regularly :goodjob:

[Lorne Mauer]

Interesting read vt2vx.

[VX2VESS]

looks pretty old actually.

it shows the foam filter perform better. don't like foam you can never really get all the dirt out of them.

hard to find independent tests on filters...