OzGarage Ep10 - The Fuel Test

[HP-F]

http://ozgarage.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/s1_e10_fuel.jpg

98 Octane, Ethanol, E10.... all words which we are hearing more and more both in the news and tv and also by customers wanting the best performance out of their car. With this we have decided to answer the questions with knowledge by testing a variety of different fuels back to back on the dyno. The results are definately intersting and may change both the performance car industry and even the environment in the future.

See the results of testing 91 Octane Unleaded, 98 Octane Unleaded, E10 Ethanol Blend, E85 Ethanol Blend and a 120 Octane dedicated race fuel.

To give some relief from the dyno action we also head down to the Latrobe Valley Street Machine Show with a few cars.

Catch it on C31 Melbourne this Sunday night 7th June at 9PM or online shortly thereafter. It is also repeated on Channel 31 on Thursdays at 4.30pm and Saturdays at 4pm.

http://www.ozgarage.com.au

[WHLS1]

Good exercise on answering what power is produced by the different fuels.

To my mind only half the questions are answered.

Bang for buck/how far does a litre of fuel take you is a question no doubt many would like to ask particularly given the price disparity between E10 (which on your own account produces near 98 power and can be bought for the price of 91 or better) and 98.

It is common knowledge that the ethanol blends will not take you as far per litre but does the lesser distance traveled mean that you would be as well or better off fronting the price for 98 in the first instance?

Any chance of further evaluation on distance per litre/bang for buck especially since you have a mini fuel tank system you can use. I appreciate a definitive test would be a massive exercise however a small test to provide guidance would be of interest.

[swingtan]

Unfortunately I don't get 31 where I am (all channels are off a UHF repeater and 31 didn't make the cut....). However I did a chunk of long term testing back when V-Power Racing left the market. My findings were much the same as indicated above, E10 was a close second to 98. Longer term "on the road testing" lead me to the belief that if I was looking to save some money, I'd always be running E10.

While it's known that you need to use more ethanol than petrol, to get the same power, there is only 10% ethanol in the E10. So the fuel consumption difference is only going to be 10% of the difference between 100% petrol and 100% ethanol. The advantages that you get with running a near 98RON tune but paying for near 91RON petrol make E10 a very attractive fuel.

Why don't I still run E10? Because I have a fuel card with the lease and it makes no difference to my end costs on which fuel I run.

Simon

[WHLS1]

Simon, your assessment on bang for buck/fuel savings is essentially how I see the E10/98 question and why I generally throw in E10. Hopefully HPF will step up and rum some consumption test for all of us.


As there are quite few members who cannot get C31 and have wait for an episode to appear on C31 online could we please have the dyno charts and a commentary as to results posted here by HPF?

[Ron SS]

Ethanol has a low calorific value ... this means that it has less bang than petrol. Hence to get the same power level, the motor has to be tuned to E10 and you will use more fuel in the process. It does have a high octane rating and this will reduce knock. Overall you need more timing and more fuel thown in to get the best out of it, as the show correctly did too. It is pointless saying .."I'll fill up with E10 to see how it goes" ... it will go poorly unless you tune to use it. As the show also said ...watch out if you have rubber in the fuel system ... plenty of planes have found out the hard way that ethanol rots rubber!! I used E10 in an Astra and the car stopped 400 metres from the sevice station, to park alongside others in the same predicament.

I seriously doubt any fuel consumption comparison ... it has to be done very carefully under controlled conditions and driving to Gippsland saying it returned XYZ fuel use is not a controlled comparison.

I'd like to see the next episode do a LPG story.

[swingtan]

WRT: Specifically tuning for E10, it will always help and give the best results. However, any car that still runs a CL tune will see the mixtures corrected for..... eventually. You are correct in saying that just filling up and expecting a to see a difference, will leave you disappointed.

RE: Fuel consumption, you can get "real world" comparisons but you need to run them over a long time, so the differences average out.

[WHLS1]

No argument that best results require tuning to specific fuel but for day to day non max performance E10 may well have something to offer. I am tuned on 98 and if anticipating hard use/doing some track work I would ensure that I had 98 only in the system well prior to use. Much of my daily use is suburban during school hours (40 kph zones) or heavy traffic - not much peak power opportunity or requirement - maybe this is where we all need the multi tune Ford flash tuner - load up the E10 around town tune and swap over to the 98 when having a big day out.

Yes a real world fully logged consumption test would be very exhaustive however some basic analysis without massive time and energy may be possible. No doubt too simplistic but maybe something along the lines of how long does an engine run on one litre of "x" at 2000 rpm in top gear.

[swingtan]

Hahahah, I have a multi tune setup ;) I can switch between a "normal tune" and one where I can alter the PE mixtures and the timing referenced to EQ. So I could do that right now.

The other thing is, while you do need more ethanol than petrol, there is no reason why you can't lean the mixture out a bit to boost the economy. Sure you need to use a little more E10 to make full power, but you can use less at light cruise and retain the economy. Richen it up for WOT and lean it out for cruise....

[V-Car]

I was just watching Ep10 online and noted how well the E10 fuel went.
Great show BTW. I noticed i can get Ep12 on iTunes. Is there any chance that all other episodes could be made available there also please?

Anyway, back a few months ago E10 was pretty much rated at around 95RON as you said, but was 3c/lt cheaper than regular 91RON unleaded as it was standard unleaded with 10% ethanol added.
Great value!

But what's happened lately, and i first noticed it at BP, is that their regular unleaded now includes 10% ethanol, but is still only 91RON and is the same price as their old 91 unleaded.

Call me a cynic, but this was done very quietly and is a nice little profit maker for BP and others.
The reason i say this is because to come up with a E10 91RON unleaded is that they are now using a lower quality fuel, maybe 87RON and by adding the 10% ethanol it now only becomes 91RON.
That would cost far less to produce than regular 91 unleaded.

My point is that others like United have E10 (95) at 3cents less than regular unleaded, but BP, Caltex etc. are still charging the old regular unleaded price for E10 (91).

Example:
3 months ago:
BP, Caltex, Shell etc. unleaded 91RON = 120c/lt.
Caltex, Shell, United etc. E10 95RON = 117c/lt.

Today:
BP unleaded E10 91RON = 120c/lt.
United E10 95RON = 117c/lt.

BP should be only charging about 114c/lt for their crap E10 now....if you get my drift. ;)
To them i say :flipoff:
To United, Freedom i say :thumbsup:

Would be curious to see what result you got today if you tested E10 again.
Thanks again for the shows.

http://envirofuel.com.au/find-fuel/ethanol/

OT: Is Matt J at the HPF the same Matty (and Tracy) i knew in Melbourne years ago?

Ross.

[HP-F]

I was just watching Ep10 online and noted how well the E10 fuel went.
Great show BTW. I noticed i can get Ep12 on iTunes. Is there any chance that all other episodes could be made available there also please?

Anyway, back a few months ago E10 was pretty much rated at around 95RON as you said, but was 3c/lt cheaper than regular 91RON unleaded as it was standard unleaded with 10% ethanol added.
Great value!

But what's happened lately, and i first noticed it at BP, is that their regular unleaded now includes 10% ethanol, but is still only 91RON and is the same price as their old 91 unleaded.

Call me a cynic, but this was done very quietly and is a nice little profit maker for BP and others.
The reason i say this is because to come up with a E10 91RON unleaded is that they are now using a lower quality fuel, maybe 87RON and by adding the 10% ethanol it now only becomes 91RON.
That would cost far less to produce than regular 91 unleaded.

My point is that others like United have E10 (95) at 3cents less than regular unleaded, but BP, Caltex etc. are still charging the old regular unleaded price for E10 (91).

Example:
3 months ago:
BP, Caltex, Shell etc. unleaded 91RON = 120c/lt.
Caltex, Shell, United etc. E10 95RON = 117c/lt.

Today:
BP unleaded E10 91RON = 120c/lt.
United E10 95RON = 117c/lt.

BP should be only charging about 114c/lt for their crap E10 now....if you get my drift. ;)
To them i say :flipoff:
To United, Freedom i say :thumbsup:

Would be curious to see what result you got today if you tested E10 again.
Thanks again for the shows.

http://envirofuel.com.au/find-fuel/ethanol/

OT: Is Matt J at the HPF the same Matty (and Tracy) i knew in Melbourne years ago?

Ross.

Ross,

Interesting, I would think you could not expect the same economy from 91 octane / Ethanol mix fuel either, so its loose loose for the consumer and win win for the petrol company and the excise hungry government, most unusual...NOT!

Matt J is the Matt you knew in Melbourne, he has married Tracy has 2 great kids, is still extremely handsome and a very hard and efficient worker... :)

I will pass on your regards!

How's Perth treating you??

[V-Car]

Thanks for the info, and please pass on my regards to all.
Last i heard they were in Sydney, then some retarded renter burnt down their house! :vpo:

Perth was ok thanks, but the Gold Coast is great! :)

[HP-F]

Matt J is the Matt you knew in Melbourne, he has married Tracy has 2 great kids, is still extremely handsome and a very hard and efficient worker... :)


Clearly he is still a wanker too.