Fuel consumption after cam install VE SSV

[peachypete82]

Howdy all.

Ive recently had a cam installed in my VE SSV. I run a Russo maffless OTR, 3" system with pacemaker 4 into 1's, 3.45 gears and i think its a VCM 233 cam.

I have put in a morestall to help the idle factor which seems to be ok now.

Before the cam i would get around 380kms to a tank in the city and over 500 country. I now get about 270-310 city... 310 is at best which includes a fair amount of freeway driving. The car made 396 RWHP which i was a little unsure about. The car made 353 RWHP with a 2 1/4 pipe system and maffless tune. Then i went to a 3" full system and cam and it has made only 396. I personally was expecting more.. and

The car smells rich.. if you stand at the rear on idle it burns your eyes and on the guage i get about 21 ltr to 100kms.. which is 25% more then it used to run.

So my questions are... is my fuel consumption to be expected?

And... should i have more power?

[macca33]

For that size cam you should be getting more power, however, the fuel usage is difficult to say, apart from the fact that you bought a cam which will use a heap of fuel, due to valve overlap and the fact that you use it in city traffic.

Who did the work on the car?

[Gen3Unistudent]

You didn't mention if you got a tune after cam?

[nthnbeachesguy]

I guess the burning question is, how do you drive it? I don't imagine the traffic in Perth is like Melbourne or Sydney and judging by your pre cam install figures you either have a thirsdty as hell motor or your right foot is made of some weird composite heavy metal that came out of a blackhole.

Something doesn't sound right, the cam gurus are gunna wanna know what sort of cam it is as well.

[peachypete82]

Formulatech in Perth. It Just seems like for 40WRHP gain to use 25% more fuel doesnt seem right... plus i did a UDP kit too....

yeh it got a full tune.. its maffles now... its gone back a few times to get the drivablity right.. it still idles at around 980 and it pulls up to the lights horribly.. the trans tries to downshit and it gets all caught up.


I guess the burning question is, how do you drive it? I don't imagine the traffic in Perth is like Melbourne or Sydney and judging by your pre cam install figures you either have a thirsdty as hell motor or your right foot is made of some weird composite heavy metal that came out of a blackhole.

Something doesn't sound right, the cam gurus are gunna wanna know what sort of cam it is as well.

i see what you mean.. but i dont drive it hard.. i generally drive normally and i TRIED to get some mileage on the last tank (which means driving it as easily as i could) and i got 315km.. from top to almost not making it to a servo.. and that included heaps of freeway driving (110kms)...

And no.. i barely sit in traffic.. where i work is on the outskirts of the city and i live in freo so im never in heavy traffic

[macca33]

Clearly, there is a tune issue there. Either get them to sort it out, or you are going to have to go somewhere that can.

You should not be having those types of problems if the tuner knows what they are doing.

[peachypete82]

Thats what i was eluding too.. just sucks though as you pay good money for cam/tune now i gotta pay for tune again.. but if it makes it right it will be worth it. I spoke to Forumulatech yesterday and they are going to discuss it with their main tuner and get back to me but they have had a go at it once since the install and i get the feeling their out of ideas...

[SHANESVZSS]

i would have thought a cam that size along with rest of your mods would atleast be 450rwhp or somewhre in that area.. fuel usage is similar to mine and im always stuck in traffic (stupid traffic)... on the freeway your should (in my experience only) get low teens??

[peachypete82]

i would have thought a cam that size along with rest of your mods would atleast be 450rwhp or somewhre in that area.. fuel usage is similar to mine and im always stuck in traffic (stupid traffic)... on the freeway your should (in my experience only) get low teens??

Really? nah mine only made 396 and i was expecting more.. i was thinking around the 430 mark... And to he honest if it makes 450WRHP and did 300kms to a tank i probably wouldnt car... but it just seems for 400RWHP (only 40 more then stock cam) to use 25% more fuel doesnt sound like a worthwhile mod

[zeeute]

I'd be looking elsewhere for another tune! That sounds horrible... Surely they can do better then that... It sounds like its running a really rough tune!

[peachypete82]

any one reccomend someone in perth?

[VZSSTT]

i would throw it on a dyno and ckeck the AFR readings, or if you already have a sheet with that on it post it up. Could very well be running rich. Sounds like it to me.

[peachypete82]

i would throw it on a dyno and ckeck the AFR readings, or if you already have a sheet with that on it post it up. Could very well be running rich. Sounds like it to me.

Got dynosheet.. no AFR though....

[zeeute]

any one reccomend someone in perth?

Look in the sponsor section of the forum mate, I am sure there are a few workshops on here that can help you out... Even ask someone like Darkrayne...


Got dynosheet.. no AFR though....

Post up your Dyno sheet so we can have a look mate

[morpheousssv]

Sounds like yr discussing my VE !!! same issues, same location in aus, similar cam, Hi stall, similar mods, 380rwhp same tuning problems. runs like a fuel funny car up to 1500rpm then at 1600revs it leans and is camming up on the freeway.
Hey I was told by 1 workshop to drive it in a lower gear to keep the revs up out of the rich area as a solution, NOT. Decided to go to lower diff gears and leave it in 6th. Waiting to do a full tank run to see how that goes.

[VTR8Clubby]

Formulatech in Perth.

There, I found the problem for you.

[peachypete82]

Sounds like yr discussing my VE !!! same issues, same location in aus, similar cam, Hi stall, similar mods, 380rwhp same tuning problems. runs like a fuel funny car up to 1500rpm then at 1600revs it leans and is camming up on the freeway.
Hey I was told by 1 workshop to drive it in a lower gear to keep the revs up out of the rich area as a solution, NOT. Decided to go to lower diff gears and leave it in 6th. Waiting to do a full tank run to see how that goes.

Maybe we need to chat.. I had the same issue.. camming up at 1500 on freeway in top gear lockup and car bouncing around.. they took lockup out until over 100 now and its better... But yeh mines no good.. ive done 2 tanks now and its not going to get better.... im gonan give them one more go than try a different shop

[morpheousssv]

Mate i am trying to stay with the 1 tuner as i beleive i've paid for a service and i expect to receive the results, just like in any business!! they advertise to sell something or a service for the public to buy and they are required to warrant that sell. There is plenty of different avenues available you can take along these lines.

[stumps57L]

Take it to mitch at WA PErformance, or get chipmaster to tune it when he is in WA.

Both sponsors of the site.

[EXCESSV]

There, I found the problem for you.+1 too!

Mate i am trying to stay with the 1 tuner as i beleive i've paid for a service and i expect to receive the results, just like in any business!! they advertise to sell something or a service for the public to buy and they are required to warrant that sell. There is plenty of different avenues available you can take along these lines.mate your flogging a dead horse by staying with one tuner/workshop that isnt meeting your requirements. especially since they are known for there issues.

so keep going back if u want wasting your time and money and personal grief or bite the bullet go somewhere else thats recommended and DOES a good job spend the money and be done with it.
put it down to a bad investment and experience and go forward

[Darkrayne]

Id recommend both Pro Auto and WA Perf .. they will sort you out and not let the car go till its running the best.. The only two places I'd take my car too.

[peachypete82]

+1 too!
mate your flogging a dead horse by staying with one tuner/workshop that isnt meeting your requirements. especially since they are known for there issues.

so keep going back if u want wasting your time and money and personal grief or bite the bullet go somewhere else thats recommended and DOES a good job spend the money and be done with it.
put it down to a bad investment and experience and go forward

Yeh i agree.. Im going to try house of power i think. Different mentality. LIke i think Forumulatech just drop on a generic tune where other guys start with stock holden tune and go from there.. which sounds like a better way to go. I spoke to the guys at house of power and it seems they know what they are on about and he basically explained to me everythign i have been though and offers a money back guarantee...

[EXCESSV]

Yeh i agree.. Im going to try house of power i think. Different mentality. LIke i think Forumulatech just drop on a generic tune where other guys start with stock holden tune and go from there.. which sounds like a better way to go. I spoke to the guys at house of power and it seems they know what they are on about and he basically explained to me everythign i have been though and offers a money back guarantee...why not see a sponsor where its proven?

to those that know nothing or little about tuning any "tuner" can sound like they know something.

u have Active Automotive, WA Performance, Chipmaster, and Pro Auto at your disposal.
If you cant wait for Chipmaster then go see Eddy @ Active :goodjob:

[macca33]

Pete, you've been recommended two good shops - ProAuto and WA Performance (3 incl. Chipmaster) who are all sponsors, yet you say you'll go somewhere else. I hope this isn't a case of leading a horse to water......do it once, do it right :toetap:

EDIT - now 4, with Dean nominating Active Automotive.

cheers

[peachypete82]

Dont like eddy.. Daniel is never here... WA Perf too pricey... House of power seemed very honest and is going to dyno my car for free to show me where its wrong at the moment and offer a money back guarantee.. and he has explained to me all the issues im having.. and assures me they will all be resolved and that ill be happy to drive the car again.. or again my money back.. so seems ok and they are close to my house

ill try give pro auto a go.. its just that they are miles from where i live.. makes it hard getting the car there etc

[zeeute]

Dont like eddy.. Daniel is never here... WA Perf too pricey... House of power seemed very honest and is going to dyno my car for free to show me where its wrong at the moment and offer a money back guarantee.. and he has explained to me all the issues im having.. and assures me they will all be resolved and that ill be happy to drive the car again.. or again my money back.. so seems ok and they are close to my house

ill try give pro auto a go.. its just that they are miles from where i live.. makes it hard getting the car there etc

I'd be going for W.A Performance... They sound like a good mob, may be worth the extra $$ in the long run!

[EXCESSV]

Pete,

price should NEVER be an issue when it comes to tunes and performance work on a car.
saving those dollars now can cost u more in the long run

thats fair enough and u have every right to have your views and good luck with it at House of Power. Rob knows his stuff.

Forget Pro Auto..just put them up as they are a sponsor.

but remember...EVERY workshop/tuner has there good and bad stories. There is NO ONE out there that is perfect and flawless.

the whole money back gaurentee and putting car on a dyno to prove things isn't anything special, most places offer that.
showing issues on a dyno isnt always the best. for example put a car on a dyno and u will get knock sensors showing knock...get on the road and no knock as the dyno is noisy so is more susceptible to "hearing" knock

take it all with a pinch of salt

[Excellent]

Dont like eddy.. Daniel is never here... WA Perf too pricey... House of power seemed very honest and is going to dyno my car for free to show me where its wrong at the moment and offer a money back guarantee.. and he has explained to me all the issues im having.. and assures me they will all be resolved and that ill be happy to drive the car again.. or again my money back.. so seems ok and they are close to my house

ill try give pro auto a go.. its just that they are miles from where i live.. makes it hard getting the car there etc

peachypete82

Don't be too influenced by the lure of forum sponsors. A friend of mine realised his tune was unaltered from stock after taking it to one of the sponsors. :flipoff:

Go with who you know or trust but someone who knows what they are doing. In the case there are issues, make sure they are willing to work through the processes with you.

[peachypete82]

yeh thought as much.. House of power seem honest and he does understand the finicky things that are shitting me about the car now.. and he said i wont pay until they are all addressed.. which is cool....

Ill give them a go and post my experiences with them

[HOLDAN]

Hi there

I have a Comp 220/224 112 LSA, Orssum OTR, pacie 4 to 1 headers, high flow cats, Remus 2.5" performance exhaust and mafless tune. Makes 293RWKW and I get 9.5l on highways and 14/15 l in traffic. However I had the same problem as you do with my first tuner. So I took it to Powertorque and they found an extra 30kw and now it behaves beautifully.

[smokiebbear]

Hi there

I have a Comp 220/224 112 LSA, Orssum OTR, pacie 4 to 1 headers, high flow cats, Remus 2.5" performance exhaust and mafless tune. Makes 293RWKW and I get 9.5l on highways and 14/15 l in traffic. However I had the same problem as you do with my first tuner. So I took it to Powertorque and they found an extra 30kw and now it behaves beautifully.

Having driven it i would also agree Dan. Its hard to believe that the car is so smooth with a stock stall also.

Pete take your car to a forum sponsor no if's butts or maybes otherwise you'll be back here in a few weeks complaining with the same issues.

cheers - matt

[Matty5700]

Hi there

Remus 2.5" performance exhaust

Love Remus exhausts, my brother had one fitted to be '89 Nissan Skyline 3L that had been cammed and the noise that came out of that was just superb. It had a beautiful rumble at idle, howled like a demon when it was being driven hard. And best of all no drone. I'm considering a remus for my car when it runs out of warranty in a couple of months.

[Delco]

Dont like eddy.. Daniel is never here... WA Perf too pricey... House of power seemed very honest and is going to dyno my car for free to show me where its wrong at the moment and offer a money back guarantee.. and he has explained to me all the issues im having.. and assures me they will all be resolved and that ill be happy to drive the car again.. or again my money back.. so seems ok and they are close to my house

ill try give pro auto a go.. its just that they are miles from where i live.. makes it hard getting the car there etc

I am in perth every month tuning , you just need to book in advance as spots fill very quickly.

next trip will be late Aug.

[SS Enforcer]

peachypete82

Don't be too influenced by the lure of forum sponsors. A friend of mine realised his tune was unaltered from stock after taking it to one of the sponsors. :flipoff:

Go with who you know or trust but someone who knows what they are doing. In the case there are issues, make sure they are willing to work through the processes with you.

Firstly which sponsor ripped your mate if thats the case they should be publicly outed. But i doubt it as the sponsors on here know if they balls it up it will generally be made public.

There are some very good tuners in WA that are sponsors on this forum and have the runs on the board to prove it. I'd personally wait for Daniel to tune it then you will know it's done properly.

Let us know how you go about getting your money back off the clowns who made some adjustments to your car and obviously overcharged you.


cheers

[Excellent]

Firstly which sponsor ripped your mate if thats the case they should be publicly outed. But i doubt it as the sponsors on here know if they balls it up it will generally be made public.

cheers

It's not going to help his cause so no point in telling. But if one sponsor has done it, what's stopping another from doing the same thing to unsuspecting customers? Especially if they're too busy.

Let's just say, he spoke to the workshop's manager personally and described the problems. 3 visits later, no luck to sorting out the issues just a nice bigger hole in the butterfly and a fancy dyno graph. And not surprisingly, the tune wasn't even locked.

Pete's right in going to a person who is willing to fix it before he asks to be paid. Can't do much better than that!

[WH Captain]

HAHA another Formula Tech F##K UP! :goodjob:

396 with a cam that size? Thats a joke, ive got a 224, stock stall and made 415 rwhp..

U think WA Perf is too pricey? I find them on par.. what did brett sting u? 10k?:rofl: WA Perf is where its at mate!

If money is a problem for you id wait it out till you can take it to someone who knows what there doin. Stop wasting your time with someone who spends more time geling his hair up than he did putting your cam in!

[The_Senator]

Stop wasting your time with someone who spends more time geling his hair up than he did putting your cam in!

Haha... It's funny 'cause it is true..

Formula Tech = Flash, Fancy, Gely but ultimately EPIC FAIL..

Daniel @ Chipmaster knows his stuff, and lots of people here can attain to that. He WRITES code.. So he knows his sh!t

Deb and Mitch at WA PERF - again, knows LSx's and great to deal with.

These people i have dealt with, and would reccommend.. Paying $900 for a WORKING TUNE that you know will work first time everytime is insurance for your engine and hip pocket...

I do hope your problems are worked out Pete.. Cars come a long way since i saw it many moons ago at the drags..

[JaMeS_2007]

any one reccomend someone in perth?


i got all my work done at WA performance.

ive had no troubles with them what so ever.

[EXCESSV]

HAHA another Formula Tech F##K UP! :goodjob:but but but but...he is a WALKINSHAW PERFORMANCE dealer...that should mean they are good shouldnt it? :confused: :rofl:

[The_Senator]

but but but but...he is a WALKINSHAW PERFORMANCE dealer...that should mean they are good shouldnt it? :confused: :rofl:

Hmmm, isn't that an oxymoron? WALKSINSHAW PERFORMANCE and FormulaTech

Many have been there.. Many have failed.. Jobs that is..

[vz300]

Thats what i was eluding too.. just sucks though as you pay good money for cam/tune now i gotta pay for tune again.. but if it makes it right it will be worth it. I spoke to Forumulatech yesterday and they are going to discuss it with their main tuner and get back to me but they have had a go at it once since the install and i get the feeling their out of ideas...

Mate I dont want to be rude and I know it hurts but you have know one else to blame but yourself regarding this miss fortune........ This forum would have directed you in the right direction as to getting the job done right the first time, there are also plenty of forum sponsors that could have helped out.....

[bigdogdazza]

Bud I feel for you and NO I cant offer any advice on who to see to get your problems fixed. I also do believe that these fuc*ing cowboys out there that like to think they are in the know and willingly mess with our expensive baby,s at our cost for their own learning experiences should have a special thread dedicated to them and them alone! I see these horror stories about the average punter going to a performance workshop and getting royaly fuc*ed over and it makes me think, do I have to read every thread and every post to try and sort these weeds out? NO, I say we start a thread NAMING and SHAMING ALL those that deservadly need it! And I also say as a tradie that must by law give a warranty on works performed and is regulated by a governing body that if these guys arent willing to perform the works needed/requested and upon approval of paying customer,THEN, be paid for the job, WELL I am a little sceptical about their services!:goodjob: To the shop that has the ethics NOT HAPPY?NO PAY!
I will also state that this is not a CASE FOR HERESAY must be from personal experience and reasons given. We cant go and bag a guy for wrong hairdo or some personall issue with his cologne BUT if they ripped you and werent at all interested in fixing the said prob after they grabbed your cash, I say LET IT BE KNOWN!

[WH Captain]

but but but but...he is a WALKINSHAW PERFORMANCE dealer...that should mean they are good shouldnt it? :confused: :rofl:

LOL youd think so, Walkinshaw is a hero name, but when certain ppl can use the name to make big coin (for more hair product) and dont really give shit bout the final product is pathetic..

And anyone thinking in just jumping on the bandwagon for Bagging out WPFTDC (what a mouthful that is!) im not, ive been assed around by him and his gel for years till i saw the light and went to WA PERF, you get on his wrong side, at his shop and he'll fly kick u in the face! :karate:

Like i said b4 id just take it else where and cut ya losses, that joint really aint worth ya efforts mate!

[MickmeMate]

Yeah that sounds way to much fuel consumption for that size cam. I agree with the other guys it's a tune issue. Must be a downer paying all that money and then having issues with it.

[Ewok]

Reminds me of the motivational pic...

Wal-kin-shawed: To be ****ed over by someone you trust

[Bless_you]

but but but but...he is a WALKINSHAW PERFORMANCE dealer...that should mean they are good shouldnt it? :confused: :rofl:

Lol... Much like a certain Bill Lee being a HDT dealer???
:kneel:

[JaMeS_2007]

would getting head work improve his fuel usage?

[BLACKVE]

LOL youd think so, Walkinshaw is a hero name, but when certain ppl can use the name to make big coin (for more hair product) and dont really give shit bout the final product is pathetic..




My tuners balding, must be a good sign:rofl::rofl:

Original poster please go see one of the sponsors the perths guy talk about, probs will be sorted.

If your worried about travelling because it's a bother just remember you'll only have to go there once not 3>4 times as posted before

Best of LUCK!!!!!

[XUV]

would getting head work improve his fuel usage?

who knows , but it mite put a smile on his dial .........

[bigdogdazza]

who knows , but it mite put a smile on his dial .........

Yes I reckon a bit of head work would put a smile on his dial,:rofl: so to probably would getting what he paid for in the first place.

[Oztrack Tuning]

L98s have great heads already. In a LS1 yes head work will help (mostly the compression increase). In a L98 a comp increase would help but thats the only reason.

My VE 6L twin turbo last weekend used 123L for an average of 9.7L/100km at the pump, travelled to Kyogle and return from Sydney.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Thats what i was eluding too.. just sucks though as you pay good money for cam/tune now i gotta pay for tune again.. but if it makes it right it will be worth it. I spoke to Forumulatech yesterday and they are going to discuss it with their main tuner and get back to me but they have had a go at it once since the install and i get the feeling their out of ideas...

been there done that

[Martin_D]

My tuners balding, must be a good sign:rofl::rofl:

Easy tiger......its a nice even thinning the kind that comes with maturity like a fine South Aussie wine. In younger years with the full Limahl get-up it certainly did me no favours in the tuning game :lol:

[hurricane ss]

mate referring to your question on a tuner in perth try giving Aaron a ring at INTUNE PERFORMANCE in BIBRA LAKE

[LS1 VT]

i know this thread is a few weeks old now but did u end up having any luck?

[sv82fitty]

Formulatech in Perth. It Just seems like for 40WRHP gain to use 25% more fuel doesnt seem right... plus i did a UDP kit too....

yeh it got a full tune.. its maffles now... its gone back a few times to get the drivablity right.. it still idles at around 980 and it pulls up to the lights horribly.. the trans tries to downshit and it gets all caught up.



i see what you mean.. but i dont drive it hard.. i generally drive normally and i TRIED to get some mileage on the last tank (which means driving it as easily as i could) and i got 315km.. from top to almost not making it to a servo.. and that included heaps of freeway driving (110kms)...

And no.. i barely sit in traffic.. where i work is on the outskirts of the city and i live in freo so im never in heavy traffic


I spent 7 grand on Formula tech mods....learn rapidly, stay away from him, i am going to get mine re-adjusted by wa performance, mine is the same runs as rich as anything at idle, supposedly 430 rwhp, but am also suspect on his figures, he is renownowned for FTKW's (formula tech kilowatts), basicall gets ya money and then too bad.

[smokey777]

i have a mild cam 224x224 in a manual SS VE ute on trip i get 10l per 100 with average speed of 100kl/h no different to pre-cam really but it was still well under 10000 ks on car then. around town would be better if i didn't let it idle so much to wam up lol mine gets 400 rwhp as it is

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

cam 224x228 9.5 to 10 on the hiway 18 round town

ADD the htv2300 =10 on the hiway 21 round town
8.5 and 17.5 if you believe the trip meter fuel used
the 10 and 21 are fill up to fill up
actual liters used to km traveled

also idles at 750 rpm and changes down coming up to the lights like a stock auto no stall :)

[GettinThere]

Well will be interesting to see what happens to my VE LS2 Goes in next week for OTR, 3" s/steel exhaust and the biggest cam that can be fitted and still street driveable.

Must admit didnt really think about fuel economy till this week but need to decide on the cam quick smart.

Its going to Active Automotive and driven one of his tuned cars and drove really well, from my understanding they do great work and only had good feedback from the guys at the HSV Owners Club.

Looking forward to the result in rwhp...

[daskip]

Well will be interesting to see what happens to my VE LS2 Goes in next week for OTR, 3" s/steel exhaust and the biggest cam that can be fitted and still street driveable.

Must admit didnt really think about fuel economy till this week but need to decide on the cam quick smart.

Its going to Active Automotive and driven one of his tuned cars and drove really well, from my understanding they do great work and only had good feedback from the guys at the HSV Owners Club.

Looking forward to the result in rwhp...

haha

my LS2 with 231/237 .581 .595 @ 112 does a

full city run @ 300-320km a tank
highway run @ 550km a tank

i got 396rwhp with restrictive VY2 headers and GTS Cats and 2.25" Exhaust

only thing i have noticed with having a " QLD CAM " is the low down driveability is a lil sluggish say compared to a 220's cam

but still puts a smile on my dial once i climb to about 3k and then it pulls and pulls and pulls all the way to redline