Space saver wheels prohibited

[Muncha]

Just letting others know that the use of space saver wheels is now prohibited by ANDRA.

It doesnt matter if you have proper drag racing front runners on them, the wheels are not allowed to be used.

ANDRA reckon they spoke to GM and GM said the wheels are not safe over 80kph.


Space Saver/Emergency Spare Wheels Deemed Unsafe
Friday, 31 July 2009 - Posted by Rob Sharp

(ANDRA Head Office)

ANDRA has confirmed that a ban has been placed on Space Saver/Emergency wheels and tyres effective immediately. ANDRA Officials as well as track staff have been briefed to inform competitors and, if required, make the appropriate Log Book entry.

The safety amendment to the current ANDRA Rules on wheels and tyres is as follows –

4.5.2 Tyres
Tyres must be considered free of defects prior to any run. All treaded tyres must have a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm (1/16 inch). In classes with tyre width limits, the tread surface will be measured in all cases. All vehicles exceeding 160 mph (255 kph) are required to use tyres specifically built for drag racing use. Only dragsters, altereds and motorcycles may use motorcycle tyres. Cars quicker than 12.50 (1/4 mile)/8.00 (1/8 mile) using independent front suspension and cross-ply rear slicks are not permitted to use radial front tyres. Metal valve caps are required on all wheels. Retreading of any tyre on any vehicle quicker than 12.50 (1/4 mile)/8.00 (1/8 mile) or unsafe modification of racing tyres is not permitted. The use of speed limited tyres manufactured for space saver / emergency spare rims is prohibited.

4.5.3 Wheels
Hub-caps and clip-on trims must be removed during all competition. Scrutineers may check for loose wheel nuts and cracked or damaged wheels. Each car must be fitted with automotive type wheels with a minimum diameter of 12 inches (304.8mm) unless class regulations permit otherwise. Rim width for sedans is a minimum of 3 inches (76.2mm). The use of automotive wire wheels and centre-lock devices is restricted to cars on which they were originally fitted. Automotive type wire wheels or motorcycle wheels are prohibited on vehicles in Altered classes. The use of speed limited rims known as ‘space saver’ or an emergency spare is prohibited. Each wheel stud must protrude past the outer face of the wheel by a distance no less than the diameter of the stud used. The thread engagement on all wheel studs to the lug nut must be equivalent to or greater than the diameter of the stud. Length of the stud does not determine legality, length of engagement between the stud and hex portion of the lug determines legality. (eg. A 7/16-inch stud must be completely engaged through the threads in the hex portion of the lug nut a minimum of 7/16-inch). All cars quicker than 11.00 (1/4 mile)/7.00 (1/8 mile) must be fitted with open ended wheel nuts. Factory alloy wheels may use original wheel nuts/studs. Motorcycle or lightweight racing wheels must use spokes with a minimum diameter of 1/8 inch (3.2mm), properly cross laced to provide maximum strength. All spoke holes in hub and rim must be used.


For further information email david.baker@andra.com.au

www.andra.com.au

[Tre-Cool]

i cant see how the "rim" itself cant be rated at over 80kph.

it's not like the alloy is magically going to fall apart FFS!

the tyres themselves i can understand, but rim? come on.

either way it doesnt affect me, but seems a bit silly.

[Muncha]

i cant see how the "rim" itself cant be rated at over 80kph.

it's not like the alloy is magically going to fall apart FFS!

the tyres themselves i can understand, but rim? come on.

either way it doesnt affect me, but seems a bit silly.

Try telling that to ANDRA.

Now i cant race my ute until i get some "racing" wheels that will be just as safe as the ones i have been using.

[Stelth]

How can the rims be rated at only 80 KMH ?

I agree with the tyres but not the rims.

That stuffs me up with my big brakes.

The 18 inch savers where perfect.

[Muncha]

Apparently GM said that and ANDRA is just going on what they were told by GM. I cant see GM saying yes they are fine for high speed use to cover there ass but still, seems a bit stupid to me.

[BOBGEN111]

Has there ever been a report of a space saver failing?

I have the 15x4 inch monaro serias 1 space savers so how can andra tell the difference between them and a set of modified rims, they look the same.

I see no issue in it.

[WLDLS1]

to be honest i cant see a issue with the tyre. again its not magicly going to blow if you go over 80kph. they say 80kph so you will slow down and get your puncture fixed. i think it has more to do with tyre size to the rest of your tyres. im sure it would be dangerous with one space saver on at high speed but if you have 2 on the the car on the front it would be ok. your only going in a straight line. i have checked the rating on these tyres. they are M rated. that is 130kph.
L 75 mph 120 km/h Off-Road & Light Truck Tires
M 81 mph 130 km/h
N 87 mph 140km/h Temporary Spare Tires
P 93 mph 150 km/h
Q 99 mph 160 km/h Studless & Studdable Winter Tires
R 106 mph 170 km/h H.D. Light Truck Tires
S 112 mph 180 km/h Family Sedans & Vans
T 118 mph 190 km/h Family Sedans & Vans
U 124 mph 200 km/h
H 130 mph 210 km/h Sport Sedans & Coupes
V 149 mph 240 km/h Sport Sedans, Coupes & Sports Cars

or look at temp spare rating.

[Muncha]

The tyre hasn't been allowed for a while, but now they wont let you use the wheel either. How the wheel is less safe then any other wheel i would like to know.

[WLDLS1]

good old andra. playing games again. they cant even go into bat for there payed up members in melbourne to get a new track going. members that have paid for years and continue to in the hope one day things might change.
thats another beef at a different time i suppose. i seen a very fast black ve ute at the LS1 NATS using them and not one problem.

[Muncha]

Apparently the rule only came in a few weeks ago.

[BOBGEN111]

Has there ever been a report of a space saver failing?

I have the 15x4 inch monaro serias 1 space savers so how can andra tell the difference between them and a set of modified rims, they look the same.

I see no issue in it.

I should add that I use a proper m/h tyre on the space saver.

[Muncha]

I should add that I use a proper m/h tyre on the space saver.

Don't tell them they are space savers. I did see another racer out there who was racing on the 15x4 steel chaser type rim so you "might" be able to use those and get away with it.

[topflyt]

thats bullshit man, Im going to modify mine so its hard to tell that they are a space saver, completely sand back the wheels and get them polished, I also have 17x4 M&H tyres on em

[Muncha]

Hope it works for you, mine don't have any stickers or anything to say they are the space savers but the ANDRA officials knew they were. They are the
17x4 HSV GTO 5 spoke wheels.

[vuss383]

So is it only the spoked wheel that they have canned ??


Troy

[Mungrel]

the steel space savers should be fine you'd think.
they're no different to a pursuity, just skinnier.

I've not seen an alloy spacesaver in the flesh so to speak so i can't comment - that'll be a big pain in the arse though

[Tre-Cool]

the steel space savers should be fine you'd think.
they're no different to a pursuity, just skinnier.

I've not seen an alloy spacesaver in the flesh so to speak so i can't comment - that'll be a big pain in the arse though
same could be said for the 17" rims.

if they can the steel one as well i will be pissed, as that's what i use on the front of mine. 15x4" and then 15x7" on the rear.

i guess if its possible to find out who actually manufactures the 17" rim and ask them if the rim is any less "safe" than a standard sized rim. bet they will say they are just as strong.

[Mungrel]

Good idea, i thought ROH manufactured the commodore wheels?

Surely these spacesavers can't be any worse than some of the cheap, shit quality chromies people are using on the street and the track?

[dyso]

same could be said for the 17" rims.

if they can the steel one as well i will be pissed, as that's what i use on the front of mine. 15x4" and then 15x7" on the rear.

i guess if its possible to find out who actually manufactures the 17" rim and ask them if the rim is any less "safe" than a standard sized rim. bet they will say they are just as strong.
I run the same ... Lets hope we dont have to add a new set of rims to the shopping list for the upcoming season cant see how the 15x4s could be any weaker than the 15x7... Rocket being a major sponsor of andra would probably be the only ones who wouldnt be complaing about this ....

[TIR33D]

I agree bullshit ruling.
Not that you wuld know, but even the spare in a BA falcon has a 80km/h sticker on it, its a 16' steel wheel, with a dunlop tyre on it, load and speed rated for the car, but it has a big sticker on it.
The only reason I can figure out why is because we can't be trusted to change our own wheels properly, so an untrained person has worked on the car possibly making it unsafe.
Bullshit ruling.

[Muncha]

So is it only the spoked wheel that they have canned ??


Troy

All space savers have been banned, steel, alloy, anything that was made as a space saver/temporary wheel has been banned.

[vuss383]

What a F*^KING Joke .... Not only have we been slugged an extra fee with our ANDRA licence per year , now most of us will have to fork out for a set of fronts . Can't understand what could go wrong with a persuit steel 15x4, I know mine have done many a run with nil issues :flipoff:

Troy

[WLDLS1]

like i said. TYPICAL ANDRA. MONEY HUNGRY THEIFS.

[BOBGEN111]

What a F*^KING Joke .... Not only have we been slugged an extra fee with our ANDRA licence per year , now most of us will have to fork out for a set of fronts . Can't understand what could go wrong with a persuit steel 15x4, I know mine have done many a run with nil issues :flipoff:

Troy

Agreed, and how are they going to tell they are space savers?

We can just say they are custom made rims.

[Tre-Cool]

i dont believe the pursuit rims are clasified as a space saver.

besides could just say that they were 6 or 7" rim and you had them cut etc.

[dyso]

i dont believe the pursuit rims are clasified as a space saver.

besides could just say that they were 6 or 7" rim and you had them cut etc.
Thats a very good thought ..... "Custom Made" may be the words of choice if asked about them.....

[psi o9]

andra and gmh can go f--k them selves if they keep this shit up we will all go back to street racing.

[topflyt]

Just placed a order for some 17x4.5 Weld alumastar 2.0 one peice front runners... had no choice $730ea wheel for a 17" :O

[seedyrom]

Ironically my custom made 9" wide VT SS rims, which are made by welding two rims together to form one, are now "safer" than a single piece cast item.

Cool. I wont be sweating so much when I use them now.

Thanks ANDRA!!!

[Angelo_XLR8]

Ironically my custom made 9" wide VT SS rims, which are made by welding two rims together to form one, are now "safer" than a single piece cast item.

Cool. I wont be sweating so much when I use them now.

Thanks ANDRA!!!

i thought they looked extra phat :-)

[Muncha]

Just placed a order for some 17x4.5 Weld alumastar 2.0 one peice front runners... had no choice $730ea wheel for a 17" :O

I was looking at doing the same.

I have rang a few places and am waiting on a call on a custom set of 17s, will update when i get a price.

[Tre-Cool]

Ironically my custom made 9" wide VT SS rims, which are made by welding two rims together to form one, are now "safer" than a single piece cast item.

Cool. I wont be sweating so much when I use them now.

Thanks ANDRA!!!
there in lies the stupidity of these rules.

[psi o9]

i think andra might be in for a fight due to the fact that they stated that gmh said they were not safe and they were not made by gmh so they have no legal basis to make that comment so i will be fighting this as the onus is on andra to have them strengh tested by engineers before they can prove otherwise if we all stick together on this may be andra might not end up being challenged in the courts as i am sick of their moving the posts when ever they feel like it so i will still be using mine and bad luck for anyone trying to stop me as it wont happen.

[HSV Listy]

Please use full stops as reading that is just hard

It is the same with the helmet laws ANDRA brought in. You need a SAI global ticks but they are not the standard but just one of many helmet testers. There is other helmet testers that meet the exact same standard yet they are not allowed to be used by ANDRA. That is anti competition right there. Even ADNRA dont allow some helmets that are approved for F1 use.

As to the wheels same same. The only way they would get away with it was to have the original test by GMH (regardless of who makes them as GMH would of tested them as part of the ADRs) that proove that over a certain speed the 17x4 wheels are not safe. I somehow doubt this is the case but if they do then they have every right to say no.
One way or another things are not makeing sense in their standards.

[Muncha]

i think andra might be in for a fight due to the fact that they stated that gmh said they were not safe and they were not made by gmh so they have no legal basis to make that comment so i will be fighting this as the onus is on andra to have them strengh tested by engineers before they can prove otherwise if we all stick together on this may be andra might not end up being challenged in the courts as i am sick of their moving the posts when ever they feel like it so i will still be using mine and bad luck for anyone trying to stop me as it wont happen.

ANDRA is saying that a wheel that was originally designed as a low speed space saver is not safe for high speed use. I think it is more of a case of them covering there ass if anything were ever to go wrong with a space saver wheel at the track. Imagine the lawsuit if one failed, and ANDRA got sued for allowing a low speed spare wheel to be used in racing conditions.

It would be up to you to prove they are safe and getting them strength tested, not ANDRA.

I rang ROH, they made the wheels for GMH. They stated the wheels where only ever engineered and designed as a space saver and shouldn't be used as a front runner at high speeds.

[Tre-Cool]

what about the the steel wheels. some models got the 15x4 how can they be less safer than a 15x6, 15x7?

[seedyrom]

Andra are the same as Bernie Ecklestone

A small mouth trying to cover its/his ass, whilst generating more profit at the same time

Got nothing to back up its shit talking




Who owns SAI Global and ANDRA?

[LS7HSVWAGON]

what about the the steel wheels. some models got the 15x4 how can they be less safer than a 15x6, 15x7?

Agreed it's all BS

I got a pair of 18x4 ROH / HSV rims... with the right tyres they will be just as good as anything else.

What about half of the garbage brands being used... some don't even meet ADRs and are being sold flatout and used here, there and everywhere.

So if i get a pair of 18inch wheels for example... cut them down from 8inch wide to 4 inch, weld them up etc then this is ok?

Unreal...

Lets just say an indivual goes ahead and paints, polishes their space saver how are they gonna tell? Obviously they can just say go home but yeah...

Also what is the deal from fun / private drag meets etc?

[Muncha]

If you get a pair of 18s and cut the m down they will be fine. Are you sure your current wheels aren't just cut down 18s? ;)

They are pretty up to date on what space savers are out there, i don't think the colour or finish will get past them.

If the fun/private meet is at a ANDRA track, they are a no go.

[Tre-Cool]

be interesting to know what standard if ANY the Weld brand wheels meet?

hmmm.

[LS7HSVWAGON]

If you get a pair of 18s and cut the m down they will be fine. Are you sure your current wheels aren't just cut down 18s? ;)

They are pretty up to date on what space savers are out there, i don't think the colour or finish will get past them.

If the fun/private meet is at a ANDRA track, they are a no go.

Thanks for that info Muncha.

Yeah I got cut down ones.

It is a joke really it is...


be interesting to know what standard if ANY the Weld brand wheels meet?

hmmm.

Yeah exactly... the quality will be no different.

I wonder if people get them independantly engineered if it would make a diff.

[WA1TNC]

DAMM IT!!!
my house mate just brought a vy gts coupe with 1 in the boot, another of my mates has 1 he was going 2 buy off him and we were going 2 change the tires on them & use them as front runners.
i dont want 2 fork out $1400+ just on the front runners.... how will that go down with the miss's???
:banghead:

[BIG Shaun]

the steel space savers should be fine you'd think.
they're no different to a pursuity, just skinnier.

I've not seen an alloy spacesaver in the flesh so to speak so i can't comment - that'll be a big pain in the arse though

i dought the reason for them only being rated at 80kmh max for high way use being a strength factor with neither tyre or rim.
i would say the reason they rate the spare at a maximum of 80kmh is for the likely event of hard emergency braking. thats all!
which really makes ANDRA's reasoning for banning the space saver a joke!!
i mean the only reason why proper alloy drag racing front runners are illegel on the street is for that exact reason as well, there not safe for pulling your car up on heavy braking. thats the only reason!

[johnv]

i dought the reason for them only being rated at 80kmh max for high way use being a strength factor with neither tyre or rim.
i would say the reason they rate the spare at a maximum of 80kmh is for the likely event of hard emergency braking. thats all!
which really makes ANDRA's reasoning for banning the space saver a joke!!
i mean the only reason why proper alloy drag racing front runners are illegel on the street is for that exact reason as well, there not safe for pulling your car up on heavy braking. thats the only reason!

Exactly !! and the car can become unbalanced with one odd size (smaller) wheel tyre, affecting cornering and braking.

[jws]

What is everyone using now to replace the space saver? Is there a front runner out there that will clear the bigger HSV brakes and not break the bank?

[Muncha]

The only wheel i found at the time was the Weld Aluma Star in a 17x4. But they priced at about $990 each in Australia, you might be able to get them cheaper from the states but they will still cost well over $1k landed i reckon. I actually have a set of 17x4 M&H front runner tyres if anyone wants to but them.

[Tre-Cool]

just to stir up up an old thread.

I had to drive over 1K km's on tuesday on the space saver in my brothers ve, i can happily say the tyre held up fine on the front for braking and sitting on cruise at 120kph.

[monario]

I don't mean to dredge up an old topic, but I was surfing for 15x4.5inch rims for my new land speed car, and I just thought i'd mention i've used a pair of holden spacesaver rims (one from the boot of my CV8), at over 150mph on the front of my 454 HQ on the lake gairdner salt flats, they worked just fine ( with steel commodore rims on the rear), and that thing was HEAVY on the nose

[dyno junkie]

Has anyone been stopped from racing at the Motorplex because of factory alloy space savers???

[Scruffy]

I saw a bloke get pinged at scrutineering for exactly that last wednesday.

He wasnt a happy camper...

[GENR8R]

was it a alloy space saver or a 4" steel rim?

[Scruffy]

Looked like an 18" steel rim. Didnt have any holes like a pursuit rim, just flat metal painted silver.

[dyno junkie]

Just noticed a lot a Pontiac GTO's run the factory space saver alloy wheels on the front.

[GENR8R]

i raced my car friday night at the plex, looking at a car in the stageing lanes and noticed 4x15 on the front. an andra official walking past took a look and all he said to the guy was can u take ur wheel waits off. so it got past scruteneiring and also an andra dude looking at them. :flipoff: i know if i put my 4x15's on i wouldnt be raceing.

[Tre-Cool]

i raced my car friday night at the plex, looking at a car in the stageing lanes and noticed 4x15 on the front. an andra official walking past took a look and all he said to the guy was can u take ur wheel waits off. so it got past scruteneiring and also an andra dude looking at them. :flipoff: i know if i put my 4x15's on i wouldnt be raceing.
steel or alloy?

my old man races with the steel rim in the 11's.

[GENR8R]

yeh a steel rims. ive got a set and would use them. but i know my luck ill get their and then be told i cant race. not worth the effort for me

[Tre-Cool]

if you put the proper tyres on them (if your running slicks) i dont think you'll have a problem.

[Scruffy]

The guy I saw had front runners on. I heard most of the conversation with the scrutineers and the issue wasnt the tyres, but the fact that the wheels are only speed rated to 80kph.

And honestly, if you cant hit 80 down the quarter, I'd be surprised if you'd make it up the hill on the way in...