Need some advice re: buying a car!

[Denied]

Hey fellas,

I finally took the plunge and decided to get a VY SS. I've been looking for a while and finally found one that I like.. good nick, low k's, been inspected, all checks out.

Here's the issue:

I did a revs check, and there's finance owing on the car. I talked to the guy about it and he has explained the situation and that there's still xxxx amount owing on the car.

So, I said I'd make out two bank checks - one to his financial institution with his account details written on the back to cover the debt payout - and the other bank check to him for the remainder of the purchase price. I'd give them to him, sign the papers, take the car and happy days.

However, he wants to hold on to the signed rego papers as security until the bank checks clear - which could be 3-5 days, and then a further two weeks for the financial company to clear the financial interest in the vehicle.

What risks do I run here? How can I ensure that I'm kept safe in this transaction? Leaving him with the signed rego paper doesn't fill me with confidence.. This guy seems genuine, seems legit, seems like a good guy.. he seems as nervous as I am about making sure it all goes through properly.

But what's stopping him calling up the cops as soon as I leave saying the car has been stolen?

If I got a photocopy of both sides of the signed rego paper would that suffice in the case that he tried to do a dodgy on me and call the car in stolen or something?

Looking to the pros for some advice here.. thanks! :)

[kurt27]

photocopy or write your own receipt sort of thing for him to sign aknowledging the sale of the car

[PhatAs]

tell him to get real! Your paying with bank cheques for christs sake. Tell him bank cheques are guaranteed by the bank... get him to call his bank and ask about them if he doesnt believe you...

If he still doesnt buy into it, do you use transfer forms in nsw? if you do, keep the buyers copy and that should do for proof of purchase. and also get him to write out a signed and dated receipt stating what you have paid to him and the financial institution.

[burninwheels]

What he's trying to do is perfectly acceptable. That is how I did it when I sold my car.

The buyer took my car and I kept the spare key and the rego papers. We obviously exchanged details and both signed an agreement stating that I will be sending out the spare key and his part of the rego papers, as soon as the cheque clears. It was a bank cheque.

Witness his signature (compare it to his licence) and make sure it's the same.

[EpOcH]

tell him to get real! Your paying with bank cheques for christs sake. Tell him bank cheques are guaranteed by the bank... get him to call his bank and ask about them if he doesnt believe you...

I think the point is whats to stop the person giving the cheques going and cancelling them after driving away with your car saying he's lost them .. absolutely 0 ... damned if you do and damned if you dont, then a person has your car with signed rego papers ;)

Allways 2 sides to a story.

Aslong as the financial institution acknowledges reciept of the money i dont see why he needs to wait 2 weeks for it to *clear*, a couple of days maybe just like a normal cheque. Maybe you can do a direct deposit on his behalf rather than the cheque and provide him with the details of the payment but the timing of this is paramount to stop fraud (both go to your bank and he can watch you xfer it to them ?)

[duke5700]

Its a bank cheque, its like giving the man cash. Tell him politely to change the deal or you walk away.

[Denied]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for the info so far.

I guess to an extent I can see it both ways. I asked my bank today what would happen if he didn't cash the check to the financial institution.. (obviously being addressed to them, he can't do anything else with it) but the bank told me I could cancel it.. so I guess the potential is there for someone to scam him.

If I write out a 'contract' stating all the information of our exchange, citing how much I paid to his bank in a cheque, how much I paid to him in a cheque, the rough timelines for clearing, that he was keeping the paper etc etc until it all cleared - covering every aspect of the transaction and had us sign it, would that be enough to keep us both safe?

I couldn't walk away from this one... it's too great, I won't find another like it! :P

[redvxr8clubby]

tell him to get real! Your paying with bank cheques for christs sake. Tell him bank cheques are guaranteed by the bank... get him to call his bank and ask about them if he doesnt believe you...

If he still doesnt buy into it, do you use transfer forms in nsw? if you do, keep the buyers copy and that should do for proof of purchase. and also get him to write out a signed and dated receipt stating what you have paid to him and the financial institution.

There have been cases of fraudulent bank cheques, so the seller is just being cautious, as is the buyer - all with good reason. I don't know the ideal answer, however if the seller went to the bank with you when the bank cheques are drawn up, that should satisfy him the cheques are not fraudulent, he should then be happy enough to provide rego papers along with the car. If not maybe it's all getting too hard. Not keen on taking on a car that shows as encumbered on REVS. As much as dealers can be a pain, at least you don't have these dramas, and have some protection if there are subsequent problems.

[burninwheels]

One more thing - you might want to draw up a contract before you go to pick up the car. Reason being is you will probably be nervous or too excited and forget to put important things in the contract.

[PhatAs]

I think the point is whats to stop the person giving the cheques going and cancelling them after driving away with your car saying he's lost them .. absolutely 0 ... damned if you do and damned if you dont, then a person has your car with signed rego papers ;)


If the buyer was to cancel the cheque then you are able to report the car as stolen and it will be recovered for you.


There have been cases of fraudulent bank cheques, so the seller is just being cautious, as is the buyer - all with good reason.

Bank cheques have a sequence number on them like travellers cheques, and as such if you were that paranoid of being duped you could ring the financial institution who issued the cheque and ask them to confirm the validity of the cheque.

Come on tho people have some faith.

[Devil CV8]

If the buyer was to cancel the cheque then you are able to report the car as stolen and it will be recovered for you.
nope. as you would have handed the keys over it isn't stolen. The police may be interested in chasing the buyer over the fraudulent cheque, but that has nothing to do with recovering the car. That becomes a civil matter.



Bank cheques have a sequence number on them like travellers cheques, and as such if you were that paranoid of being duped you could ring the financial institution who issued the cheque and ask them to confirm the validity of the cheque.

Come on tho people have some faith.

as has been said, bank cheques have been used fraudulently in the past, and what helps that immensely is the belief by most people that they are as good as cash.simple fact is they aren't.

[DaveHAT]

Option 1: The pain in the arse.
Make the 2 bank cheques out as you've mentioned. One in the owners and name and residual owning in the financial institutions name.

Ensure you get a FINAL payout figure for the day you intend to buy it ... otherwise if old mate doesn't hand the cheque over for a few days the payout figure may change.

Meet the owner at the financial institution that holds title over the car and present the cheque directly to them.

They SHOULD be able to provide you with clearence of title then and there.

Once done ... give old mate his cheque whilst he hands you the keys.

Option 2: Less hassle.
Tell the buyer to sort his shit out and you're not buying a car with encumberance on it. If he won't come to the party ... walk away. There WILL be others.

[Merlin]

I've bought cars before with finance owing.

Personally I think the guy is being unreasonable - bank cheque is as good as cash. If he has a problem with this then far and away the easiest solution is to meet him at his bank at an agreed time and hand the cheque over to his bank who will verify it on the spot and put it in his account. Then meet up at the finance place and give them the second cheque. Though MAKE SURE the finance place (or him) gives you a signed letter stating how much of an interest they own in the car and what the payout figure is. As soon as you give them the cheque REVS should clear very quickly.

Option 2 would be an electronic transfer of funds to his account if he dosn't trust a bank cheque.

Option 3 - Then again whats a VYSS worth - under $20K I assume - just take out cash and give it to him. Ditto with finance company.

Otherwise walk away - remember YOU have the power. Your the one with the money, his the one trying to offload a used car. He will quickly change his stance. Another one WILL come up.

[redbelly007]

I've bought cars before with finance owing.

Personally I think the guy is being unreasonable - bank cheque is as good as cash. If he has a problem with this then far and away the easiest solution is to meet him at his bank at an agreed time and hand the cheque over to his bank who will verify it on the spot and put it in his account. Then meet up at the finance place and give them the second cheque. Though MAKE SURE the finance place (or him) gives you a signed letter stating how much of an interest they own in the car and what the payout figure is. As soon as you give them the cheque REVS should clear very quickly.

Option 2 would be an electronic transfer of funds to his account if he dosn't trust a bank cheque.

Option 3 - Then again whats a VYSS worth - under $20K I assume - just take out cash and give it to him. Ditto with finance company.

Otherwise walk away - remember YOU have the power. Your the one with the money, his the one trying to offload a used car. He will quickly change his stance. Another one WILL come up.
I agree with merlin you hold the power and his ideas are worth looking into. :)

[macca33]

nope. as you would have handed the keys over it isn't stolen. The police may be interested in chasing the buyer over the fraudulent cheque, but that has nothing to do with recovering the car. That becomes a civil matter.


That is quite wrong. If a criminal act, ie canceling the cheque occurs, then it amounts to theft (obtain financial advantage by deception to be precise) and it is NOT a civil matter at all.

[toey]

if his loan is threw a bank then go with him to the bank and pay out his loan with cash or bank cheque, if the loan is with a finance company like capital finance then they should have bpay set up for extra payments so you could use that to pay out the loan which will be all but instant and i no with my account i can make up to $20k worth of bpay transactions a day. finally give him cash for the second part of payment.

job done and no need for contracts and stuffing round with rego paper, all would be sorted in same day

[Mad Dog]

Maybe im too trusting. Inspected car, made deposit with small simple handwritten contract. Seller obtained final payout figure by fax. I contacted finance company by phone to confirm amount. Two bank checks, one for finance company and one for previous owner. I drive away.

But I knew where he lived, nice professional gent, had a coffee and a chat in his very nice house, even met the wife. Had a good relationship with dealer so gave them a call and they told me vehicle details, services, problems etc.

Bit risky but didnt even put it on a hoist. Changed over rego so had few inspections done, roadworthy and identity.

All good couldnt be happier. I got exactly what I wanted but I didnt bargain hard so paid a bit more but thats okay as car wasnt a compromise.

[Devil CV8]

That is quite wrong. If a criminal act, ie canceling the cheque occurs, then it amounts to theft (obtain financial advantage by deception to be precise) and it is NOT a civil matter at all.
While the cheque part of your comment is correct, and I have no issue there. BUT recovery of the vehicle obtained by the fraudulent cheque IS a civil matter, not criminal. If the vehicle is returned that would have an impact at sentencing.
same scenario as malicious damage. if I take a crowbar to a tail light I would be charged with malicious damage, but I do not have to pay for the damage caused. If the victim wants the damage paid for by me he has to take action himself, however if I pay for the damage voluntarily that will lessen the impact at sentencing.

[sjhugh]

Because of the possiblity of fraudulant cheques, all banks offer instant verification for their bank cheques. I handed over one today and the seller did a confirmation over the phone without any worries. Speak to your issuing bank about the details to do this.

[Denied]

Well, thanks for all the suggestions and information.

Thought I'd provide an update.. I bought the car last night. It happened pretty much the same way as Mad Dog's transaction.

Got a signed contract by us both stating our intentions, gave him two bank cheques once I had the payout figure, swapped the rego papers and off I went. I got a photocopy of the original which he'll send once the cheques clear.

So, all seemed to go pretty smoothly.. and I'm LOVING the SS.. ;)

Now to start looking at mods..!

[Mad Dog]

Sweet, good to hear it went to plan.