No 4 point IRS kit

[macca_779]

Scott I recently rang the Darwin dealer to inquire about getting a 4 point camber/toe kit installed into my VT. The lady on the phone advised me that no product exists and that they only have a 2 point toe kit. My car is suffering from the usual rear tyre inside wear the early models are know for and I know full well that the issue is heavily camber related not just toe related. I did a search on the pedders website parts list and also found no inclusion of a 4 point kit.

I'm just curious to know why there is no kit available. I may have to get one off Fulcrum and get someone else to fit it which is a pain as Pedders is the only suspension specialist in Darwin that I know of.

[OPTIMUS]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VR-VS-VT-VX-VU-Commodore-Nolathane-Camber-Toe-Adj-Kit_W0QQitemZ190332042954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car _Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c50ac7eca&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

strange nolathane/pedders are the same thing

[Pedders]

Pedders have a policy of recommending fitment of the adjuster kits to the inner pivots for the reason below. There are several threads on the topic of 4 vs 2 kits in this forum and the opinions held by many are that 4 are OK but it is not our recommendation which is why the store advised as they did.

Replacing the outer bush with adjusters doesn't just effect the camber but the position of the wheel itself which can lead to wheel base issues. For example, you have a kits fitted and the installer is very careful to set both the outer adjusters in exactly the same full POS camber position and aligns it. Then at the next alignment you go to someone who is less informed and they decide to adjust the outer bushes because they can't make it right any other way. Then you can end up with wheel base and diff issues.

You will notice that The Nolathane kits are sold as 1 kit but it says 1 or 2 with a reference to other information. Other companies do sell 4 point kits Pedders do not.

Pedders do however have an option that can now help with the issue.

We now produce an offset rubber bush (P/No 5803) for the outer position. This bush once fitted at the full pos camber point cannot be adjusted which means any further corrections can only be done on the inner. This gives all the camber advantages gained by an adjustable kit while reducing the likelihood of damage occurring and retains the O.E. NVH that synthetic bushes reduce.

Click here for 5803 bush PDF. (http://www.pedders.com.au/PS_images/tradeNews/pdf/tn1182206159.pdf)

Scott

[macca_779]

Excellent. Thanks for the reply Scott. So I gather with the inclusion of the 5803 bush you can offset the excess stock camber setting and then just adjust the rest of the error with the tow kit.

My main question obviously is. Will Pedders be able to improve my rear end so I don't chew out inside rear tyres?

[Pedders]

Doing this will significantly reduce the wear on your tyres.

All IRS rear ends are designed to run with some camber and will induce a little inner edge wear. Larger wheels and tyres can make this worse but it is the toe being out that really damages the tyres.

Make sure the store checks your rear cradle alignment as well as it needs to be correctly positioned to ensure that the alignment is set correctly.

Remember also that if you have a multi link IRS rear end then you should be able to fix most issues by fitting the 5803 outer bush and using the on car adjustment. Pedders adjustable IRS bushes do not fit the inner bush on these models as they have a bush which is a different size to the non multi link units.

Scott

[vt2vx]

correcting camber wear by extra toe in just wears the tyres faster, but wear more evenly, the tyres wear out probably just as fast as no correction. at least it looks better than chewed inners.

What would be the best correction if there is such a thing on this crappy rear end. that is a 4 point kit and change the rear drive shafts for slightly shorter ones to prevent diff damage when correcting camber esp on lowered springs.

this rear end std as is isn't bad for racing but isn't adjustable.

[Pedders]

Slight correction here.

At no time was I advocating using extra toe to correct camber wear. I suggested using our outer bushes to reduce the camber angles and setting the correct amount of toe will provide minimal tyre wear.

Excess toe on these rear ends will wear out tyres faster than excess camber on its own but if the car has really high cambers and excess toe then the wear becomes even far more rapid.

Scott

[WAY88T]

i have a vz ss and am after a camber kit .. is it true i only need a 2 point not a 4 point kit

[Pedders]

i have a vz ss and am after a camber kit .. is it true i only need a 2 point not a 4 point kit

Yes that is correct as the later cars have an adjustable toe link and the inner bush is a different size to the outer unlike earlier models.

Rather than fitting an adjustable bush you could have the Pedders 5803 outer bush fitted. This is a specially designed rubber bush that has a camber reducing offset built into it. It is fitted like the OE one and once fitted requires no further adjustment. In addition it retains the NVH benefits of rubber that can be lost when urethane is fitted. This is also benefit when you are fit bigger rims and lower profile tyres that tend reduce ride quality to some degree.

Scott

[RA6]

Any chance of getting this bushing in poly? So pedders won't do the 4 point adjusters?

[dms]

THIS IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC. WE CANNOT DO IT THIS WAY IN THE USA ON THE GTO BECAUSE TOE IS ADJUSTED QUITE DIFFERENTLY.

HOPE ALL OF YOU HAVE A GREAT NEW YEARS.

dms

[Pedders]

At this stage there are no plans to product an inner bush in urethane for the late rear ends with the seperate toe adjuster as the o.e units work well.

[murdoch]

Hi Scott.
So the outer bush you guys supply, does this have to be used in conjuction with an after market inner adjustable bushs?
If you only install the pedders outer offset bush, does it help with camber/toe issues inherent with these VT-VX1 models have from factory? I was under the assumption the standard inner bushs are not adjustable?

[Pedders]

No. The P5803 bush is a standalone offset rubber bush designed to eliminate neg camber through its offset design.

If the car has a multi link IRS rear end then the toe is adjusted by the adjusting link which is sufficient.

If the car does not have the Multilink then a Pedders 5403 camber toe kit can be fitted to the inner bush position to allow for adjustment.

If you are unsure of what kits you need then a quick visit to your local Pedders store will quickly answer any of your concerns.

Scott

Voting for the Pedders"Show Us Your Car" competition closes at the end of the month so make sure you get your votes in.
Click here to vote (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/53V6CWH).

[murdoch]

No. The P5803 bush is a standalone offset rubber bush designed to eliminate neg camber through its offset design.

If the car has a multi link IRS rear end then the toe is adjusted by the adjusting link which is sufficient.

If the car does not have the Multilink then a Pedders 5403 camber toe kit can be fitted to the inner bush position to allow for adjustment.

If you are unsure of what kits you need then a quick visit to your local Pedders store will quickly answer any of your concerns.

Scott

Voting for the Pedders"Show Us Your Car" competition closes at the end of the month so make sure you get your votes in.
Click here to vote (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/53V6CWH).



Thanks for that.
Is the outer bush easy to instal DIY, or does it need to be positioned carefully by an suspension specialised?

[Pedders]

Would recomend having a store do the work to ensure it is located correctly when pressed in.
Scott

[Captin Obvious]

Would recomend having a store do the work to ensure it is located correctly when pressed in.
Scott

cost of part ?

[Pedders]

Forum price for a pack of 2 bushes is $83.60 unfitted.
If you are going to fit them yourself get the store staff to explain where you need to set the offset to gain the maximum camber reduction.

Scott

[VendeTTR]

how much would installation be roughly?

[Pedders]

Had a chat with a couple of our stores and a ballpark to supply, fit and 4WA would be in the area of $430.00.

Scott

[murdoch]

im confused.
I went a saw a pedders in Adelaide and asked about the offset bush.

He said if it is put in, it will help any toes issues? In the posts in this thread, it says it will correct camber issues?
I asked him then, "how would i adjust any camber", and he told me that "its adjusted using the inner bushes"!!!!
He also said that the outer off set bush can only be installed using a special tool, again contradictory to this threat.
Any thoughts?

[Pedders]

I can only assume the store has mis-interpreted your request and given you wrong info. The bushes definitely adjust camber. Please private mail me the store you visited so I can contact them and have a chat.

Scott

[Pedders]

Just and addition to the last post.
The store did not mislead about special tools for fitting the bushes. The bushes are a press fit and we have designed our own in house tooling to make the work easier. This dies not mean that it cannot be done without them , they just make our life simpler and any well tooled workshop would be able to fit them using normal equipment. At no stage in this thread have we said that the fitting did or did not require special tooling though at one stage I did give an indicitive cost to fit the units.

Scott