First drive: Holden MY10 Commodore 3.0-litre SIDI V6

[Excellent]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=65402&IsPgd=0

[Marco]

I read the article...but I still don't feel like I'm any the wiser about how the SIDI Commodore drives!

[mutual_master]

Hahah this one has just been posted too

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/41843/2010-holden-ve-commodore-sidi-first-drive-review/

much better details about the drive.

[Carby]

Good initial reports - Caradvice even reckons that the 3.6 litre is a "gun" motor.

What is really pleasing is that they all reckon the 6 speed auto is very nice and that the new motors now sound good when revved.


http://www.caradvice.com.au/40435/holden-commodore-my10-first-steer/

[sparkplug]

Looks the goods. I like the sound of the 1 tank from Syd to Melbourne claim.

[255-LS1]

Love that new gold colour.

[Ryzz]

I'll post up more info later tonight but I've been on a two day drive program for the new 3.0 & 3.6L SIDI V6 motor and I can say it's great!! I'll post up all the info from the media pack tonight.

[redvxr8clubby]

Good initial reports - Caradvice even reckons that the 3.6 litre is a "gun" motor.

What is really pleasing is that they all reckon the 6 speed auto is very nice and that the new motors now sound good when revved.


http://www.caradvice.com.au/40435/holden-commodore-my10-first-steer/

Notice the single exhaust port on the pic of the engine on this link (as has been mentioned previously on this forum).

[NRD80Y]

I'll post up more info later tonight but I've been on a two day drive program for the new 3.0 & 3.6L SIDI V6 motor and I can say it's great!! I'll post up all the info from the media pack tonight.
Aren't you the lucky lad with exclusive HSV viewings and 2 day test drives :)

Guess we'll see you on Top gear next :goodjob:

[The-V8-Power]

The 3.6L sounds pretty impressive by the sounds of things.
Drive managed to get it to 7.5L in everyday driving :bow:

I love the new two colours :) (Taken from The Motor Report)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/2010-holden-vecommodore-sidi-firstdrivereview-13-thumb.jpg

[Ryzz]

See HERE (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=125123) for a write up from the MY10 Media Launch which I attended.

[Road Warrior]

The other disappointment with the single-minded focus on safety is that Holden hasn’t fixed a couple of Commodore bugbears: namely the thick windscreen pillars which restrict forward vision

FFS do these clowns at Drive have any idea of the costs and time involved in developing major structural parts like an A pillar? Jesus these guys shit me sometimes.

[Excellent]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f67/gmi-exclusive-2010-holden-commodore-power-glory-83875/

Another great writeup.

[ATOMICSS]

Sounds promising for those who have to live with the 6cyls as company hacks. Wonder what wheels and motor will achieve with the 3.6 in the 1/4 mile. My guess 14.999 seconds,

[Excellent]

What's encouraging reading is the 6 speed auto trans. Hopefully Holden will make the same improvements to the V8 transmissions too.

[iloveholden]

They seem to be getting good reviews, and as excellent has mentioned, hopefully Holden have got the auto trans right this time on ALL models whether V6 or V8.

[gmh308]

See HERE (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=125123) for a write up from the MY10 Media Launch which I attended.

Congrats and great write up Ryzzmond. Good to see the positive views on the new SIDI plants.

Just love that zoomy cat in your avatar! :)

[falcom]

Now if only they can fix the interiors they maybe on to something.

The strong point for the Cruze is its interior and it is selling like wildfire.

[BNGTO]

Looking at ryzz's post on the drive with the MY10's the fuel economy on the 3.6 appears to be very good, not far off the 3.0. Given the technology of the two engines is much the same I can't see a lot of cost benefit in producing the smallerbone, if anything they reduce their manufacturing complexity, so I'd wonder if they'd be far off putting the 3.6 right across the range.

[VH-COM]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f67/gmi-exclusive-2010-holden-commodore-power-glory-83875/

Another great writeup.

From the article .... interesting


And don't get hung up by rated power differences: these are largely due to GM rating USA engines by SAE, and Holden rating them by ECE, which is a more conservative standard. A Holden 3.6 and CTS 3.6 produce the same power.

[Dacious]

I was on the test drive with Ryzz - the 'Top Nanna Driver'!

No seriously, he beat out some solid competition, when you take into account the roads we drove, and the time handicaps if you didn't complete the route within the time allowed. We drove up the back way through Yea, Mansfield Oxley and through the Mt Buffalo State Park which is like a mountain tourist drive, Oxley and through Myrtleford to Albury.

I think Ryzz' figures from the Omega wagon according to the Holden engineer's computer for the last leg, when he was one of the top 5, was 110km @ ave 82km/h for 6.8 L/100. That's 42mpg in the old scale. And although that was through flatter country North of the Divide, it wasn't plain sailing down a highway like the Hume.

I averaged 97km/h for the same distance, and my consumption was 7.2l/100km in an Omega sedan. That's 39mpg. And I was overtaking people and not really hanging around. I still finished 9th out of 17 overall - I got 7.6 out of the Calais over the Mt Buffalo Road. All the cars' aircon was on the whole time, too.

A few times I was sitting on 110km/h on the open road. The good thing is, I think whatever you used to get out of a V6Commodore, in town or on a trip, these are going to beat it everywhere for equivalent driving by at least 1, and often 2L/100 km.

The 3.0 is not 'torquey' per se. But it's sort of like the old 161 in the red motors - like to rev, a really willing-feeling motor.

And with the six speed, it's got 1.5 extra gears below 1st on the old tranny, and 0.5 of a gear above (3.27 diff), plus the trans is really clever in the way it shifts up and down on hills going up or down, so you're never really in the wrong gear when exiting a corner. It hooks gears in normal Drive mode quickly, but the car is never lacking for normal acceleration, and you have to watch it, it creeps up to 110 on the flat very easily.

Before the release, I went and drove a '09 175Kw Omega to get a feel for where they were before. The 3.0 is much, much nicer than the old motor. It makes a higher-pitched 'scream' than the 3.6 which is a bassier roar. The old motor sounds quite unwilling when you flatten it - the new one sounds much better and I would say is 1 sec quicker 0-100 at least.

The clever gearbox is what really makes it. The 6L50 locks the converter in all gears almost as soon as you've shifted, which is partly what makes it so efficient. If going uphill it doesn't change up if you're say going constant speed and negotiating corners, changes down if you're braking downhill and blips the throttle on tapshift downchanges, The sports mode makes it hang onto gears, longer. And all these work very well.

My read is, if you sat on the Hume, in cruise with a couple of people and gear in it, it would use <7.5L /100km cruising on legal limit.

Ryzz got to drive the manual SV6, I drove the auto Wildfire ute used in the pics, plus a auto sedan. I also got to drive a Calais V - very nice. The 3.6 autp feels about as strong as the first 5.7 VT SS auto. I would say it's easy a 6.5 0-100 car. Rear axle is now 3.27, old auto was 2.92 I think. Manual trans might be low 6's.

Holden's done a good job with the noise. It'll never sound like a V8, but now it sounds nice and angry when you get on it. On cruise, the cars are virtually silent.

The economy is the big thing. On official ADR lab figures in the green guide, the Omega is the same (7.3 hwy) as the Accord 3.5 with the 6-4-3 cylinder deactivation, but crucifies it in town, with 12.3 vs 14.7 IIRC. So the good news is, where most people do their driving these days, is where they are going to improve economy most with the 3.0.

And the really good thing is, because with SIDI the incoming charge sprays diectly on the piston crown, the performance is more consistent in really hot weather, so it's not some pingy, leaned-out, heat-sinking pile of crap to drive.

They are very willing, and even the base car is 'fun' to drive rather than feeling like it's got a bad back and doesn't want to play. I don't think the 3.0 will outdrag a base XT Falcon, but it will be much closer than the old one.

I think the SV6 auto or manual will have the XR6 (not turbo, obviously). Even if it's got the ZF. And they bendswing very well.

My hat's off to Holden. Even jaded journos liked the 3.0.

[mac06]

Before the release, I went and drove a '09 175Kw Omega to get a feel for where they were before. The 3.0 is much, much nicer than the old motor. It makes a higher-pitched 'scream' than the 3.6 which is a bassier roar. The old motor sounds quite unwilling when you flatten it - the new one sounds much better and I would say is 1 sec quicker 0-100 at least


The 0-100 figures are 8.1 sec for the old motor and 7.6 for the new 3.0l SIDI. Half a second quicker is not bad considering the torque is 290Nm, down from 325Nm.


The 3.6 auto feels about as strong as the first 5.7 VT SS auto. I would say it's easy a 6.5 0-100 car.

The new figures for 0-100 in the 3.6L SIDI motor are 6.8 sec down from 7.6 sec in the old high output motor. Holden have done a great job ticking all the boxes with these motors. Better fuel ecomomy, emissions, power, NVH. :)

[RobboSSV]

I saw a red SIDI SV6 wagon heading to Zupps Mt Gravatt this afternoon..sorry, no camera, no photos.............but obviously still looks the same. It appeared it had been through pre delivery so they must be ready to go shortly.

Noticed it had alot of rubbish/smoke/steam coming from the exhaust - even whilst idling. Alot more than what I would have expected.

Being such a warm day in QLD we rarely get that steam emmanating from the exhaust on startup like the southern states.

Is this normal?

[planetdavo]

Holden have done a great job ticking all the boxes with these motors. Better fuel ecomomy, emissions, power, NVH. :)
The absence of macca779's regular mindless "alloyanchor" rants is rather obvious at the moment...

[CLUBRED]

Noticed it had alot of rubbish/smoke/steam coming from the exhaust - even whilst idling. Alot more than what I would have expected.

Is this normal?

Saw an SIDI SV6 sedan today, didn't notice anything abnormal other than the SIDI badges are a little over the top. Would have been nice to see some new wheel designs but meh, so be it. It was the new green, Ivy, didn't think much of it.

I wonder if there's much in a tune for these things.

[FlatfootV8]

The absence of macca779's regular mindless "alloyanchor" rants is rather obvious at the moment...

Well to be fair the alloytec was rather average but sounds like Holden has got it right with the updated engines.


Saw an SIDI SV6 sedan today, didn't notice anything abnormal other than the SIDI badges are a little over the top. Would have been nice to see some new wheel designs but meh, so be it. It was the new green, Ivy, didn't think much of it.

I wonder if there's much in a tune for these things.

Like all engines there are ways to extract more potential out of them.

[fatbob]

What will impact of these engines be on price of commies with older engines - ya think ?

[Dacious]

Holden's done owners of older ones a favour by not updating the shape - hasn't destroyed resale like it would if there was a new shape. Old ones are on runout, but Holden has managed numbers down like they did with VZ-VE changeover, so there's not that many older ones left.

Holden engineers told me at the release 98 octane is worth 5kw on the 210 motor. Official power/torque ratings are all on ULP 91/93.

[kelsa]

years ago when we had our VX equip, we did a few family trips from Melb to Syd on hume, 1 Tank from Corner of whitehorse rd/springvale to Parrametta, cruised control all the way, stoped for toliet/food break. 4 people + small luggage in the car.

[planetdavo]

Well to be fair the alloytec was rather average but sounds like Holden has got it right with the updated engines.

The alloytec was quite ok.
The "problem" was really down to some people expecting it to be better than the opposition's 6 cyl engines. The rest, which happen to be the vast majority of buyers, simply didn't care one way or the other... :teach:

[vecommo]

The absence of macca779's regular mindless "alloyanchor" rants is rather obvious at the moment...

Hahaha, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[F6 Hoon]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=67133&vf=12

So Holden don't believe the climb up a Swiss mountain is fair? Do they realise that once the vehicle is at the top of the mountain it must come down?

Geez, those marketing guys must think we're dumb......dumb enough to by a SIDIDI Commodore :)

[Carby]

DRIVE are absolute hypocrites - they dispute the global Challenge as being artificial as a V8 Maloo won, yet they think their own contrived test of 1000k's around Bathurst represents normal driving? They obviously knew beforehand that a hi torque six would go very well at Bathurst and the "win" to the Falcon is totally unsurprising.

Either both tests have some validity or neither has.

[feistl]

I love this part....

"With Commodore’s traditionally strong resale values"

What the hell are they on about? Commodores/Fords have to be the fastest depreciating large car in Australia...

[F6 Hoon]

DRIVE are absolute hypocrites - they dispute the global Challenge as being artificial as a V8 Maloo won, yet they think their own contrived test of 1000k's around Bathurst represents normal driving? They obviously knew beforehand that a hi torque six would go very well at Bathurst and the "win" to the Falcon is totally unsurprising.

Either both tests have some validity or neither has.

I agree. However, how does a vehicle test conducted in which a vehicle travelling 60-70km/h below the posted speed limit, with the a/c off in 40 Deg C temperature reflect real life driving? This is where Holden have a marketing and 'truth' perception issue. Either they admit the Bathurst test reflects real world driving conditions, or admit the green car challenge represented a real-world driving condition. Then they'd have to also admit their driving practices in the NT greatly increase the chance of an accident or fatality on the open highway.

SIDIDI is quickly becoming the Starfire MkII of the Holden engines.

[lowriding]

I

SIDIDI is quickly becoming the Starfire MkII of the Holden engines.

Thats just foolish . :feedtroll:

[mmciau]

I agree. However, how does a vehicle test conducted in which a vehicle travelling 60-70km/h below the posted speed limit, with the a/c off in 40 Deg C temperature reflect real life driving? This is where Holden have a marketing and 'truth' perception issue. Either they admit the Bathurst test reflects real world driving conditions, or admit the green car challenge represented a real-world driving condition. Then they'd have to also admit their driving practices in the NT greatly increase the chance of an accident or fatality on the open highway.

SIDIDI is quickly becoming the Starfire MkII of the Holden engines.


The Challenge was undertaken within the rules of the Challenge - so you are trying to tell me that the others didn't run with the air con off as well or their tyres at 50+psi?

All would have run as per the rules.

I would almost certainly guarantee the rules will be modified for the next challenge to try and get more realistic outcomes.

Mike

[F6 Hoon]

Thats just foolish . :feedtroll:

Be that as it may, the SIDIDI is not the saviour it's been made out to be. Perhaps in a controlled laboratory environment the 3.0 and 3.6 engine is economical; real world driving conditions say otherwise.

[csv rulz]

Be that as it may, the SIDIDI is not the saviour it's been made out to be. Perhaps in a controlled laboratory environment the 3.0 and 3.6 engine is economical; real world driving conditions say otherwise.

Latest wheels shows the SV6 uses a litre less per 100km than the xr6, considering it use to use more thats a pretty good outcome.

SIDI may not be the ducks guts but it sure as hell is a step in the right direction. Personally i do not believe there will be one single solution to fuel consumption but each car company will be pushing there technology as much as possible. the marketing department would not be doing there job if they didnt push their companies technology.

[VL Executive]

I still think Holden should have made the 3.6 SIDI standard across the 6 cylinder range, and had a TURBO 3.6 SIDI as a performance option.

[Evman]

Be that as it may, the SIDIDI is not the saviour it's been made out to be. Perhaps in a controlled laboratory environment the 3.0 and 3.6 engine is economical; real world driving conditions say otherwise.

When has any tech ever been the saviour it has been made out to be by marketing? If you believe marketing hype you'll believe that the Prius is better for the environment than any other car :jerk: As csv rulz said it's a step in the right direction, and that's the idea.

[superoo]

I think most of us would have been able to have saved them the trouble of driving thousands of kays in scorching temps with no air con. We know the gas guzzling tag of V8's is irrelevant on a highway. Debate the relevance of each test but in the least i think the bathurst test is more realistic. In any case, I doubt it will have any bearing on sales - SIDI is being posted and talked about in so much media. You can't knock the holden marketing team, that's for sure.

[Carby]

I think most of us would have been able to have saved them the trouble of driving thousands of kays in scorching temps with no air con. We know the gas guzzling tag of V8's is irrelevant on a highway. Debate the relevance of each test but in the least i think the bathurst test is more realistic. In any case, I doubt it will have any bearing on sales - SIDI is being posted and talked about in so much media. You can't knock the holden marketing team, that's for sure.

The Bathurst test is more realistic?

When was the last time you drove for 1000k's at a constant 60kph with no stops for traffic lights, slowing down for roundabouts and no overtaking?

Really both tests are interesting but no where near real world conditions.

[Evman]

The Bathurst test is more realistic?


Drive.com still thinks it was the "most comprehensive" fuel economy test done, "simulating city conditions" :rofl:

[gmh308]

Drive.com still thinks it was the "most comprehensive" fuel economy test done, "simulating city conditions" :rofl:

Well that stuff they are smoking is seriously not "simulated" :rofl: It is rooly good shi*e.

[F6 Hoon]

And Holden believe it's a clever exercise to criticise the media for reporting a test that counters their fuel economy claim. I can't see this being an exercise Holden should engage themselves in.

[macca_779]

I still think Holden should have made the 3.6 SIDI standard across the 6 cylinder range, and had a TURBO 3.6 SIDI as a performance option.

Yep I'm with you on that one. Bin the 3.0L... Its existence is a nonsense as its economy output is only slightly better than the 3.6. But probably less frugal than the 3.6L when asked to put up with any moderate amount of load.

[planetdavo]

And Holden believe it's a clever exercise to criticise the media for reporting a test that counters their fuel economy claim. I can't see this being an exercise Holden should engage themselves in.

In a number of cases, the best form of defence is attack...
Any sort of "test" can be devised to make just about any car become either the most economical or the least economical on the market. It would be foolish to believe some sections of the media wont make all attempts possible to do what the media loves to do. That is, of course, to make everything be seen in a negative light. :teach:
There's no news like bad news. Imagine if the news started each night with a positive story...:rofl:

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------


Yep I'm with you on that one. Bin the 3.0L... Its existence is a nonsense as its economy output is only slightly better than the 3.6. But probably less frugal than the 3.6L when asked to put up with any moderate amount of load.
It's also only 0.6 litres a smaller motor than the 3.6.
This has been done for fleet buyers, not for performance forum members to flog off their little peckers over...

[gmh308]

And Holden believe it's a clever exercise to criticise the media for reporting a test that counters their fuel economy claim. I can't see this being an exercise Holden should engage themselves in.

They have no choice! They must rebut what is potentially a mis-leading as well as damaging report. To not fight back would be to admit they got it wrong.

The Bathurst run, while it does certainly show a strength the Ford has, represents such a small fraction of the driving that Aussie drivers generally do (sit in bumper to bumper traffic or drive on long flat roads), does sway things in an inaccurate direction compared to the big picture.

[macca_779]

In a number of cases, the best form of defence is attack...
Any sort of "test" can be devised to make just about any car become either the most economical or the least economical on the market. It would be foolish to believe some sections of the media wont make all attempts possible to do what the media loves to do. That is, of course, to make everything be seen in a negative light. :teach:
There's no news like bad news. Imagine if the news started each night with a positive story...:rofl:

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------


It's also only 0.6 litres a smaller motor than the 3.6.
This has been done for fleet buyers, not for performance forum members to flog off their little peckers over...

That's more of a difference in capacity than from LS1 to LS3 and we all know that has yeilded significant power improvements. Also look at it in percentages.

LS1 to LS3 is only an 8.1% increase
3.0SIDI to 3.6SIDI is a significant 16.7%. More than double.

Sure there is more to an LS1 - LS3 comparison than capacity alone. Heads are also to be considered.. But so are the heads on the 6's. The 3.0L ones don't exaclty look to be the most efficient design compared to the 3.6 which at least has individual exhaust ports.


LOL Davo.. What wanker would ever flog off over the 3.6 anyway. Sure its vastly improved over its predecessor. But I would hardly call it inspiring which is evident by how few of them you see modified.

[planetdavo]

Sure there is more to an LS1 - LS3 comparison than capacity alone. Heads are also to be considered.. But so are the heads on the 6's. The 3.0L ones don't exaclty look to be the most efficient design compared to the 3.6 which at least has individual exhaust ports.


LOL Davo.. What wanker would ever flog off over the 3.6 anyway. Sure its vastly improved over its predecessor. But I would hardly call it inspiring which is evident by how few of them you see modified.

Compare the design of the LF1 heads to any Honda V6 of the last 10 years. They will look very familiar where the engine pipes meet them.
Re modifying the V6, there is one very simple reason.
A heavily modified V6 would be lucky to even equal a stock LS1 onward V8, let alone beat it. Far cheaper to just buy a V8, which is exactly what most people do! Hardly anyone internally modifies Ford's 6 cyl either, bar upping the "psssshhh factor" of the turbo motor, which isn't a genuine mechanical modification.

[macca_779]

Compare the design of the LF1 heads to any Honda V6 of the last 10 years. They will look very familiar where the engine pipes meet them.


A Honda engine it is not though. Do you know why Honda has used this type of exhaust port design on their run of the mill engines? I do and its certainly not for efficiency. Rather it makes packaging into a FWD platform as the J series engines are more often than not in as far as I know far more straight forward. An issue which Holden does not have to contend with.



A heavily modified V6 would be lucky to even equal a stock LS1 onward V8, let alone beat it. Far cheaper to just buy a V8, which is exactly what most people do! Hardly anyone internally modifies Ford's 6 cyl either, bar upping the "psssshhh factor" of the turbo motor, which isn't a genuine mechanical modification.

Not telling me anything new there mate. Its the guys buying these things and spending thousands of dollars on them that need the wake up call.

[planetdavo]

A Honda engine it is not though. Do you know why Honda has used this type of exhaust port design on their run of the mill engines? I do and its certainly not for efficiency. Rather it makes packaging into a FWD platform as the J series engines are more often than not in as far as I know far more straight forward. An issue which Holden does not have to contend with.
The widest point of a V engine (rocker covers) will ALWAYS overhang the width of an exhaust manifold, unless you fit the world's bulkiest bits of cast iron...:teach:

[Spoolin]

Hardly anyone internally modifies Ford's 6 cyl either, bar upping the "psssshhh factor" of the turbo motor, which isn't a genuine mechanical modification.

C'mon Daveo, just stop with the BS! Why would anyone crack a motor open to gain increased performance if it's not needed to get significant gains?

So lets get this straight, Holden claim their 3lt SIDI can make it from Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank...So why has the tank increased capacity? Is this to facilitate the claim?
How about we bolt on the older alternator instead of the new low drag version, do the same with the tyres and notch up the idle to where it was prior to the SIDI...How would it stack up in every aspect of fuel economy?
Why has the maximum towing capacity dropped from 2,100Kg to 1,600Kg on 3lt SIDIS's, surely this reinforces the fact it's a wheezy under powered V6.

[planetdavo]

C'mon Daveo, just stop with the BS! Why would anyone crack a motor open to gain increased performance if it's not needed to get significant gains?

So lets get this straight, Holden claim their 3lt SIDI can make it from Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank...So why has the tank increased capacity? Is this to facilitate the claim?
How about we bolt on the older alternator instead of the new low drag version, do the same with the tyres and notch up the idle to where it was prior to the SIDI...How would it stack up in every aspect of fuel economy?
Why has the maximum towing capacity dropped from 2,100Kg to 1,600Kg on 3lt SIDIS's, surely this reinforces the fact it's a wheezy under powered V6.

C'mon spoolin, can't let an opportunity go by to try and get one back on Davo right...? :stick:
What you and others, as per usual, are failing to grasp is that this engine was brought in for fleets. SV6 with the 3.6 sidi is the most popular private buyer model. The sooner you can get that empty matter to grasp that this allows Holden to compete with 4 cyl cars for more fleet business now will be the day you learn how this industry operates!
:goodjob:

[Spoolin]

Planetdaveo...narcissism at it's best...Your login is quite appropriate:bow:

So how well is the SIDI 3lt fairing up against it's 4 cylinder competitors in the fleet market?

BTW, when you conceed that GMH products aren't the best...I'll chnage my mind...Guess this will only happen when you leave the Holden nest... not if when...

[planetdavo]

Planetdaveo...narcissism at it's best...Your login is quite appropriate:bow:

So how well is the SIDI 3lt fairing up against it's 4 cylinder competitors in the fleet market?

BTW, when you conceed that GMH products aren't the best...I'll chnage my mind...Guess this will only happen when you leave the Holden nest... not if when...

I've never said Holden's product is "the best". Of course they're not. They never will be in the price range they exist in. I've just told people with no idea what they are talking about that they are often talking sh!t...:confused:
There's a VERY big difference between the two. :teach:

[lowriding]

SIDI is being posted and talked about in so much media. You can't knock the holden marketing team, that's for sure.

But is it really the credit of holden marketing team though ? Some people just give them too much credit ,I dont think they nor their agencies do a particularly good job to be honest . Holden doesnt spend more than Ford or Toyota in in advertising infact the last figures i seen they spend less. The point of difference is whenever they release anything there is no shortage of knockers , naysayers and polarised opinions who like you say just keep them in conversation ..... The old saying is there is only one thing worse than being talked about ...

[superoo]

The Bathurst test is more realistic?

When was the last time you drove for 1000k's at a constant 60kph with no stops for traffic lights, slowing down for roundabouts and no overtaking?

Really both tests are interesting but no where near real world conditions.

Probably the same time I drove at 90kays in a 110 zone in 40 degree heat with no aircon. I did say "more" realistic.


But is it really the credit of holden marketing team though ? Some people just give them too much credit ,I dont think they nor their agencies do a particularly good job to be honest . Holden doesnt spend more than Ford or Toyota in in advertising infact the last figures i seen they spend less. The point of difference is whenever they release anything there is no shortage of knockers , naysayers and polarised opinions who like you say just keep them in conversation ..... The old saying is there is only one thing worse than being talked about ...

Holden know their buyers are very loyal. They have a larger fan base than many other manufacturers and so making claims like "most important change in holden's history" keeps them in conversation. I agree the plan of attack is not worthy of praise as it's a simple approach, but you can't knock the effort in plastering it everywhere and regardless of how much better or not SIDI is, people are talking. And if Holden is spending less on marketing SIDI than Ford then stuffed if I know what Ford's marketing budget is being spent on.

[macca_779]

The widest point of a V engine (rocker covers) will ALWAYS overhang the width of an exhaust manifold, unless you fit the world's bulkiest bits of cast iron...:teach:

Give than man a mars bar.. Your a bloody genius Davo. Sadly your missing a few key packaging issues after the head.

[The-V8-Power]

So lets get this straight, Holden claim their 3lt SIDI can make it from Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank...So why has the tank increased capacity? Is this to facilitate the claim?


I was certain that the VE tanks have remained at 73 litres? I am ready to stand corrected otherwise.

[planetdavo]

Give than man a mars bar.. Your a bloody genius Davo. Sadly your missing a few key packaging issues after the head.
No doubt you'll win a few fans on here by resorting to immature rubbish macca_779. Guess you are just the latest to line up! :rofl:
Have you seen how slim V6 FWD exhaust manifolds can get? Honda's not the first company to crowbar a V6 into a few of it's models you know! :eek:
Although I'm sure you're more than capable, you do realise that whether an engine has an external manifold or an in-head manifold (like LF1 and Honda), they all still require a pair of engine pipes to extract the gasses, meaning most packaging issues are the same either way...:confused:

[Ryzz]

So lets get this straight, Holden claim their 3lt SIDI can make it from Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank...So why has the tank increased capacity? Is this to facilitate the claim?
I dont know where your getting your facts from mate, but you need to check them. The fuel tank is 73L and even MY08 was, wait for it, 73L :eek:

Trust me, from someone that has driven ALL of the SIDI Cars, in Auto and Manual, I can tell you, these motors use a shiet load less fuel that the predecessor.

So next time you decide to troll about, do your research first. Im sure you'd hate to look like the fool :jester:

[Kushy]

Those two colours look veryyyyyy hot :bow:

[VYBerlinaV8]

So..... Holden has come up with 2 new motors, one of which is targetted at fleet buyers and the occasional customer who doesn't care so much about performance; and another engine that has significantly more power and torque and better economy than its predecessor.

Sounds like they've achieved their goal. And good on 'em for it.

Why the angst?

[FlatfootV8]

So..... Holden has come up with 2 new motors, one of which is targetted at fleet buyers and the occasional customer who doesn't care so much about performance; and another engine that has significantly more power and torque and better economy than its predecessor.

Sounds like they've achieved their goal. And good on 'em for it.

Why the angst?

Sometimes I wonder if I enter the wrong forum at times. When I generally browse through Ford Forums they love to go on a Holden bash.

But this is a Holden forum and some bash Holdens in their own forum.

I guess some do it to make themselves feel good whilst making the forum look like a school yard.

[planetdavo]

So..... Holden has come up with 2 new motors, one of which is targetted at fleet buyers and the occasional customer who doesn't care so much about performance; and another engine that has significantly more power and torque and better economy than its predecessor.

Sounds like they've achieved their goal. And good on 'em for it.

Why the angst?

EXACTLY.
Ford have 3 different 6 cyl options available. Holden also have 3 different 6 cyl options available. Then we get to the V8 options, which both offer more than one.
Something for everyone on here right? Well, you'd think so, if there wasn't such a depressing bunch of minority members on here flapping their choppers all the time...

[macca_779]

No doubt you'll win a few fans on here by resorting to immature rubbish macca_779. Guess you are just the latest to line up! :rofl:
Have you seen how slim V6 FWD exhaust manifolds can get? Honda's not the first company to crowbar a V6 into a few of it's models you know! :eek:
Although I'm sure you're more than capable, you do realise that whether an engine has an external manifold or an in-head manifold (like LF1 and Honda), they all still require a pair of engine pipes to extract the gasses, meaning most packaging issues are the same either way...:confused:

Who's being immature now. At least I have a comprehension of automotive products outside the almighty GM corporation. We all know you don't as you wouldn't be anywhere near as one eyes if you did.

Yeah mate I've seen a few in my time.. Even owned a few too.

Ignoring all this bullshit Davo lets get back on topic.. Do you think an engine can be classed as a serious fleet sales contender (which is all its targeted at apparently) let alone a private one when it only just barely returns better economy next to its bigger brother in low load conditions and is beaten everywhere else. The 3.0L fails in my eyes. Holden should have just stuck to the one engine as its fairly apparent that a 16% reduction in capacity and less efficient heads doesn't translate to a notable economy advantage that it should have on paper.. Unless you plan on never carrying any extra weight like a passenger or a briefcase that is.

So really. What is the point of this engine? It doesn't do anything any good from what I can see.

[nudenut]

Do you think an engine can be classed as a serious fleet sales contender (which is all its targeted at apparently) let alone a private one when it only just barely returns better economy next to its bigger brother in low load conditions and is beaten everywhere else.
Absolutely. The only time I've been involved in a fleet buying discussion where economy was raised as an issue, it wasn't based on what a drive.com.au or Wheels magazine reported - or any other "real world" findings. It was ADR81/02 combined cycle figures that were used, and I'm pretty sure that that is common practice.

And, the ADR figures say:
Commodore Omega 3.0 9.3L/100km
Toyata Aurion 9.9L/100km
Commodore SV6 3.6 10.2L/100km
Ford Falcon XT 10.5L/100km (or 9.9 with optional A6)

End of story.

[macca_779]

Absolutely. The only time I've been involved in a fleet buying discussion where economy was raised as an issue, it wasn't based on what a drive.com.au or Wheels magazine reported - or any other "real world" findings. It was ADR81/02 combined cycle figures that were used, and I'm pretty sure that that is common practice.

And, the ADR figures say:
Commodore Omega 3.0 9.3L/100km
Toyata Aurion 9.9L/100km
Commodore SV6 3.6 10.2L/100km
Ford Falcon XT 10.5L/100km (or 9.9 with optional A6)

End of story.

Pitty the real world testing hasn't showed the 3.0L to have quite that frugal advantage compared to the 3.6 or even the 4.0L.

[planetdavo]

Who's being immature now. At least I have a comprehension of automotive products outside the almighty GM corporation. We all know you don't as you wouldn't be anywhere near as one eyes if you did.


Since you never bothered asking, I also have extensive experience with the Honda brand too. Perhaps you have never heard of multi-franchise dealerships... :eyes:
But, it would be just too easy to jump on the dumbass forum bandwagon and simply call me a GM puppet, right?
:goodjob: NOT!

[macca_779]

Since you never bothered asking, I also have extensive experience with the Honda brand too. Perhaps you have never heard of multi-franchise dealerships... :eyes:
But, it would be just too easy to jump on the dumbass forum bandwagon and simply call me a GM puppet, right?
:goodjob: NOT!

My local dealership is a multi franchise. Its actually Ford and Holden FYI which makes for some interesting discussions in the workshop.

You can attempt to prove that you aren't a GM puppet if you like. It is always evident in your blatant bias to their products.

[csv rulz]

My local dealership is a multi franchise. Its actually Ford and Holden FYI which makes for some interesting discussions in the workshop.

You can attempt to prove that you aren't a GM puppet if you like. It is always evident in your blatant bias to their products.


Fellas Fellas, no need to turn this into a sledging match, everyone should be able to give there opinion.

[Evman]

Fellas Fellas, no need to turn this into a sledging match, everyone should be able to give there opinion.

That's right. Anyone can give their opinion, it's a public forum. However only mine is right :jester:

[nudenut]

Pitty the real world testing hasn't showed the 3.0L to have quite that frugal advantage compared to the 3.6 or even the 4.0L.
I agree to an extent, but that's not the point. The point is, Holden were aiming squarely at the fleet market, who (to my knowledge) generally use ADR81/02 for economy benchmarking, and the ADR81/02 figures for the SIDI 3.0 are excellent, so the aim was achieved.

I'm not a fleet buyer, I'm a driver, so if I was to buy a new V6 Commodore it would almost certainly be an SV6 or Berlina 3.6. I couldn't care less about the 3.0, but if it achieves what Holden intended it to achieve (more fleet sales), it's all good.

[csv rulz]

At the end of the day, no one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy it. Holden are a big company and i am sure they would have done there research to find out how to sell more cars. - Market the 3.0SIDI to fleets and the 3.6SIDI to privates.