another f*cked c4b

[hsvgts215]

hi guys
i bought a vx gts with 62000kms in feb since then ive probably done about 1500kms and i live 400kms away from where i bought it,
im over it, it looks great and goes great when it actually goes, but ive had enough of it, i cant see myslf ever buying a hsv again.

id only had it two weeks and the oil pump shit itself , i only drive it on weekends, then power steering pump was replaced,
NOW like everyone else with a c4b (from what ive read on this forum) lifters and cam are ****ed, does anyone know the cam specs for the genuine cam in the c4b? and what brand of camshaft, lifters and valve springs would be best to replace the genuine SHIT with?i was thinking crane cams?

any help much appreciated.:vpo:

[gts071]

hi guys
i bought a vx gts with 62000kms in feb since then ive probably done about 1500kms and i live 400kms away from where i bought it,
im over it, it looks great and goes great when it actually goes, but ive had enough of it, i cant see myslf ever buying a hsv again.

id only had it two weeks and the oil pump shit itself , i only drive it on weekends, then power steering pump was replaced,
NOW like everyone else with a c4b (from what ive read on this forum) lifters and cam are ****ed, does anyone know the cam specs for the genuine cam in the c4b? and what brand of camshaft, lifters and valve springs would be best to replace the genuine SHIT with?i was thinking crane cams?

any help much appreciated.:vpo:


Here are the GTS cam specs Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=39209)

The most popular brand for a cam is comp. Valve springs, most a good just be careful if your going to buy some second hand 918's from comp as some of these had isses.

Seriously if you going to replace the cam and other bits you may as well go a little bigger, the cost is pretty much going to be the same.

Now as for the issues with your gts, as you know the c4b's are prone to issues so this must have been expected at some point (it is 2nd hand so god knows how it was driven before you got it) but I must agree you are pretty unlucky that you have had some many issues in such a short period of time.

I had quiet a few issues with my gts in the beginning but recently I have had very few issues. So I also was pretty pissed but when you buy a car that is 8-9 years old and was pretty beefy back in the day the parts are going to have more wear and tear than most other cars. When I had my cam and bits replaced a few months ago I thought that I cam would have been shagged but it was in really good nic.

Anyway, I hope it all goes well and you stick with it!

[hsvgts215]

thanks mate,

yeah i wouldve expected it, if i hadve got on this forum and read up about it before i bought it, but i didnt, shit happens.

[macca33]

Oil pumps and PS pumps wear out - that is the nature of serviceable parts unfortunately.

As for the C4B cam / lifter / valvespring scenario, that was poor form from HSV, who it seems did not perform as much validation testing as one would expect and when the issues began to crop up, didn't really do all they could have to rectify the problem. In saying that, the car is 8+ years old now, so things do happen.

I'd recommend that you take a look through the cam results threads to determine what sort of cam you'd be chasing and speak to a sponsor over west - they'll provide advice on what you need to achieve any result you seek.

cheers

[Sonnymad]

hi guys
i bought a vx gts with 62000kms in feb since then ive probably done about 1500kms and i live 400kms away from where i bought it,
im over it, it looks great and goes great when it actually goes, but ive had enough of it, i cant see myslf ever buying a hsv again.

id only had it two weeks and the oil pump shit itself , i only drive it on weekends, then power steering pump was replaced,
NOW like everyone else with a c4b (from what ive read on this forum) lifters and cam are ****ed, does anyone know the cam specs for the genuine cam in the c4b? and what brand of camshaft, lifters and valve springs would be best to replace the genuine SHIT with?i was thinking crane cams?

any help much appreciated.:vpo:


The very same thing happeen to a customer of mine,he didnt even do 200km's,needless to say,have that c4b removed,find the nearest dumpster and toss it...thats where they all belongs !...then....either a 6litre or LS3 Crate engine ...& then enjoy your car for years to come...;)


regards sonny

[Martin_D]

Thats pretty harsh Sonny (if somewhat true) :lol:
Problem is thats the collectible part of the GTS...without a C4B its any other old VX with a few stickers and some seats/wheels. I certainly wouldnt entertain buying a GTS that didnt have a GTS engine if you know what I mean! :eek:

[HSVREDSLED]

The very same thing happeen to a customer of mine,he didnt even do 200km's,needless to say,have that c4b removed,find the nearest dumpster and toss it...thats where they all belongs !...then....either a 6litre or LS3 Crate engine ...& then enjoy your car for years to come...;)


regards sonny


And all this from an engine worth an alleged $30,000!!!

[Evman]

I agree with Tuna. If there's a transplant going to happen then at least put the engine into storage

[VX-300]

have that c4b removed,find the nearest dumpster and toss it...thats where they all belongs !...then....either a 6litre or LS3 Crate engine ...& then enjoy your car for years to come...;)
regards sonny

Agreed 100%

[mikek73xu1]

The cost of sorting out the C4B will be less than an engine transplant.
I'm also of the thought that going bigger with the cam is a good idea - cam, exhaust and tune can transform them into real grunters.
Good luck.Mike.

[Evman]

A cammed C4B still wont be as good as a cammed L98 or LS3. There's just no comparison to the newer motors. I love mine :drool:

[Rub]

A cammed C4B still wont be as good as a cammed L98 or LS3. There's just no comparison to the newer motors. I love mine :drool:

I so agree :D

[HOWQUICK]

Oil pumps and PS pumps wear out - that is the nature of serviceable parts unfortunately.

As for the C4B cam / lifter / valvespring scenario, that was poor form from HSV, who it seems did not perform as much validation testing as one would expect and when the issues began to crop up, didn't really do all they could have to rectify the problem. In saying that, the car is 8+ years old now, so things do happen.

I'd recommend that you take a look through the cam results threads to determine what sort of cam you'd be chasing and speak to a sponsor over west - they'll provide advice on what you need to achieve any result you seek.

cheers

that is far from correct....

oil pumps don't wear out and there should be no issue with them. What I suspect happened there is some debris from cam has got in the oil pump and caused it to fail. Power steer is pretty much a standard repair after this time. The o'ring on the rear cover goes square and allows them to leak. Being bolted to the cylinder head and exposed to such heat doesn't help.

As for the springs....the C4B was developed when there were no such thing as Comp Cams 26918 type springs. They used a H11 1.25" diameter spring from SBC that was servicable but need replacing regularly. To say validation was lacking is simply incorrect and the parts used were of the best available at the time of manufacture. Same goes for the Crane Cam....very limited core availability saw the case hardening too thin after grinding.

Who ever changed his oil pump should of seen there were further issues....

[HSV Listy]

No good to hear and not surprising. The PS pump and oil pump fair enough failing all be it bloody unlucky just after you bought it.
You can do the basics and replace cam, lifters, pushrods and some good springs. Also to fix the oil pump put in a SLP oil pump and double row timing chain and then and quick tune. With the aussie dollar it is good buying from Fraser at Speedinc at the moment. 0.85 cents for au to usd today
Repco will have a one for one swap of a PS pump for about $250 and 5 year warranty.
Nice little upgrade and rids all the issues with the C4B then. I like the engines just for the fact how much punishment they can take.

[hsvgts215]

thanks guys, there wont be a transplant, like street_tuna said that is why i bought the gts because of the c4b. my mechanic is very thourough and knowledgeable he has a good name in my town (i actually know him personally). would he have been able to see if the lifters and cam were damaged then when the oil pump shit itself without pulling the engine apart? as the oil pump died a week after i bought it then about 1000kms later the lifters started ratttling?

thanks for your help guys

[V8BEER]

havgts215, is your gts a black one with cloth seats and did you buy it from a guys in mandurah/rockingham area? Only reason i ask, as i was going to have a look at that one but bought a SSV instead.

[hsvgts215]

na in perth

[j_o_e_l_05]

Harsh luck, but once she's fixed, you'll love hey again, just throw in a big angry cam!

[V8BEER]

she all fixed up?

[hsvgts215]

na half apart, getting there but, yeah i might love it again but its got a bit of sucking up to for sure, even if i do sell it its gonna get fixed properly so the next owner doesnt have to go through this shit, i will keep it for a while, not spending all this money to not even get to drive it. like i said ive only done bout 1500kms


na half apart, getting there but, yeah i might love it again but its got a bit of sucking up to for sure, even if i do sell it its gonna get fixed properly so the next owner doesnt have to go through this shit, i will keep it for a while, not spending all this money to not even get to drive it. like i said ive only done bout 1500kmswhat brand of camshaft does hsv use and what is a good replacement camshaft?

[TheRealMadMax]

This is just part and parcle of buying a used car. My Monaro needed new pistons/rings, new Gear Box, new radiator, power steer pump, clutch and other items within the first few months! Not a good start, as I purchased at a dealer, I was able to convince them to cover all this stuff under warranty. Since then, I have rekindled my love of the Monaro and all has been good for a few years (touch wood!).

So, cheer up charlie, once you have sorted it, you will be happy as a pig in poop.

[STATIE]

have that c4b removed,find the nearest dumpster and toss it...thats where they all belongs !...then....either a 6litre or LS3 Crate engine ...& then enjoy your car for years to come...;)


regards sonny

Jeez Sonny - going back a few years the GTS cam was the sh!t.:eyes:

[hsvgts215]

thanks for the offer anyway mate

[Zombee]

G'day mate,

What colour is your GTS? I had a black one that I sold nearly 3 years ago, build number 207. Was just curious if you've got my old ride?

Cheers
Zombee:)

This was my old GTS.. I wonder where it is now?


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Zombee_photo/Cars/HSV%20GTS/GTS_park2.jpg

[hsvgts215]

yeh mate it is black and build 207, you can stop wonderin now:)

[Sonnymad]

Jeez Sonny - going back a few years the GTS cam was the sh!t.:eyes:

Is this thread still going ???? bloody hell !!! i might air it again....calling all gts vx owners...."C4B = dumpster" that would be about the only place it would o any good beside being a anchor on the old iron duke tanker...statie...the gts cam is still the shit :),i still keep the genuine gts cams on the shelf ;),you interesting in buying one ?:rofl:


regards sonny

[mikek73xu1]

Is this thread still going ???? bloody hell !!! i might air it again....calling all gts vx owners...."C4B = dumpster" that would be about the only place it would o any good beside being a anchor on the old iron duke tanker...statie...the gts cam is still the shit :),i still keep the genuine gts cams on the shelf ;),you interesting in buying one ?:rofl:


regards sonny

Sonny i'm sure the "dumpster" comment is "tongue in cheek?"
The C4B issue's are easily remedied - after all the bottom end is stock LS1, upgrade the cam,lifters and springs [which alot of people change to suit their requirements anyway] and you have a bulletproof engine.

[Zombee]

Geez mate, I'm sorry to hear you're having drama's with it. It was running beautifully whilst I had it. The only mods I did to it was to put on the Difillipo exhaust and extractors. The previous owner had had it tuned by Chipmaster. I had all my work and servicing done by Mitch at WA Perf. I sold it at 32,000km.

All the best with it mate - its still an awesome car! Would love to see it again some time.

Cheers
Zombee:)

[hsvgts215]

not your fault mate, its not last guys fault either, its hsv's fault. should have done thier homework before they started selling the engine to people, but the bloke who had it before me couldnt drive that great cause every rim is scratched up even the spare, they dont look as good as they do in the picture you put up

cheers mate

[Zombee]

Yeah it's such a shame, your GTS was my pride and joy. I treated it like a king, it didn't go out in the rain, never saw a shopping centre and was washed every week. It wasn't even a daily drive. Had a MY00 WRX at the time for the daily grind. The GTS was in MINT condition when I sold it.

Let me know how the engine fix-up/mods go.

Cheers
Zombee:)

[Speedy Gonzales]

The C4B issue's are easily remedied - after all the bottom end is stock LS1, upgrade the cam,lifters and springs [which alot of people change to suit their requirements anyway] and you have a bulletproof engine.

:bow: :wave:

[hsvgts215]

it is mate, he didnt look after it that well from what i could see must of been just a run around car for him, its not bad just the front bar and rims and if ya got a car like that i wouldve thought youd take a bit more care, and at least get it fixed, which was what i was gonna do until the big c4b shit itself, ill get it back to the way it was when the engine goes again.

[HSV Listy]

60 000km is about the mark things go pear shapped but of course the wear basically starts from day one. Bloody shame and piss poor on HSV part to ingore this fact and still ignore it today. I lost allot of faith in them as I paid good money for this car brand new.
Finding a genuine high KM untouched C4B would be one rare engine. Still I would not go near it.

[hsv-824]

dont worry hsvgts215, she will live...

[Swordie]

60 000km is about the mark things go pear shapped but of course the wear basically starts from day one. Bloody shame and piss poor on HSV part to ingore this fact and still ignore it today. I lost allot of faith in them as I paid good money for this car brand new.
Finding a genuine high KM untouched C4B would be one rare engine. Still I would not go near it.

Lasting 60K is not good.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

so what was the basic problem with the c4b camshaft to soft ??
i now a guy that has a 112 on one and has just had the same trouble

[mikek73xu1]

so what was the basic problem with the c4b camshaft to soft ??
i now a guy that has a 112 on one and has just had the same trouble

Wasn't completely straight forward but the short story is yes camshaft material and finish of the lobe surface.Another one is that the roller could actually leave the lobe surface when on the opening ramp then hit hard back down on the closing ramp causing fatigue and eventually wearing through the hardening.
Cheers Mike.

[HOWQUICK]

Wasn't completely straight forward but the short story is yes camshaft material and finish of the lobe surface.Another one is that the roller could actually leave the lobe surface when on the opening ramp then hit hard back down on the closing ramp causing fatigue and eventually wearing through the hardening.
Cheers Mike.

look at the reason for them failing like a road with bitumen on it....if the underlaying base is soft or the bitumen to thin....it breaks up.

[hsvgts215]

all fixed:)

[JET-33]

all fixed:)

what did you end up doing?

[hsvgts215]

pulled engine out went right through it new everything and 224 228 comp cam

[ebbett21]

Holden or HSV should be accountable for all these failed C4Bs and re imburse all owners the so called king of HSVs back in 2000 What a pile of lemons

[HSVREDSLED]

Holden or HSV should be accountable for all these failed C4Bs and re imburse all owners the so called king of HSVs back in 2000 What a pile of lemons

Fair bit of coin to reimburse.

The VT was something like $90,000 new, and now you would be lucky to get $20,000.

I cant think of another car (non exotic) that has depreciated so much over 10years.

[benniemc]

Fair bit of coin to reimburse.

The VT was something like $90,000 new, and now you would be lucky to get $20,000.

I cant think of another car (non exotic) that has depreciated so much over 10years.

Audi S4 comes to mind.... :) '02 model now is mid $20k, new $110k.

You would be pissed though spending that money on a car to find the donk was a disaster!

No car is immune though, I've got a new set of vavle springs in my VY SS after 1 imploded at 130000km

[HSVREDSLED]

Audi S4 comes to mind.... :) '02 model now is mid $20k, new $110k.

You would be pissed though spending that money on a car to find the donk was a disaster!

No car is immune though, I've got a new set of vavle springs in my VY SS after 1 imploded at 130000km


Yep I agree with the Audi, but I would argue it is exotic.:)

[Clubb'N]

Yep I agree with the Audi, but I would argue it is exotic.:)

as far as exotic goes
Audi S4 -> VX HSV GTS
but hey thats just my opinion :)
Audi RS4 is even better :)

[hsvgts215]

Holden or HSV should be accountable for all these failed C4Bs and re imburse all owners the so called king of HSVs back in 2000 What a pile of lemons

yes they ****ing should

[VX-300]

yes they ****ing should

It was far easier to deny any problem existed and just sweep the whole fiasco under the carpet.

[j_o_e_l_05]

It seems allmost every mechanic from holden dealers know of the problems, yet management tend to do nothing....