Sidi

[SV805]

Ok, I did search but couldn't find anything.

Can the new SIDI technology which seems to give the V6 more power and better fuel economy be developed for the V8 ?

If so when will this happen and what sort of power and fuel benefits would be expected.

[pmac]

well i know that the new jag and land rovers have direct injection v8s so its possible

i dont think its a priority for gm/holden in the short term

[Jac001]

I think GM ditched its plans to create a direct injected version of its northstar V8 for the cadillac at the beginning of last year (2008).

No idea if there was/is a plan to introduce it into its small block v8's.

Everything is possible just a matter of how much money they can spend on development and how much that investment will return.

[185iboy]

it should be a priority for then but i suppose they have active fuel management for the time being which is ok. if holden could develop a good direct injection v8 commodores would be exported world wide imo.

[Evman]

GM had mules driving around with direct injected LS series V8's. Due to the major changes required to the platform is was renamed the GenV engine, but no idea if it's still going.

[CLUBRED]

I want to know where Holdens W12 engine ended up?

[planetdavo]

it should be a priority for then but i suppose they have active fuel management for the time being which is ok. if holden could develop a good direct injection v8 commodores would be exported world wide imo.
Some Audi models have had their V8's replaced with S/C V6's. BMW will be replacing some of their V8 and V10 models with 2 less cylinders respectively, but turbo's added.
This is the way the world has been going, rather than making the same engines more powerful or efficient. These blown motors seem to offer better performance and better economy, plus less weight over the front axle.

[Clubb'N]

Some Audi models have had their V8's replaced with S/C V6's. BMW will be replacing some of their V8 and V10 models with 2 less cylinders respectively, but turbo's added.
This is the way the world has been going, rather than making the same engines more powerful or efficient. These blown motors seem to offer better performance and better economy, plus less weight over the front axle.

Plus more serviceable parts and more likely hood for failure ...

[powerd]

Ahh, Clubb'n, such wisdom.

I say, bring back distributors with points, carbies and sidevalves. Like you, I long for the days when things were cheap and there was nothing to go wrong on engines. And things were built to last.

And i can't understand why truckies, who are usually a sensible lot, have been driving round in them new fangled turbo diesel truck engines for so many years. Must be paid off by the trucking companies or forced into it by the banks. Bastards!

Now, i'm off for a drive in my EH. Now there's a great modern car!

Cheers,
powerd

[zorro]

Some Audi models have had their V8's replaced with S/C V6's. BMW will be replacing some of their V8 and V10 models with 2 less cylinders respectively, but turbo's added.
This is the way the world has been going, rather than making the same engines more powerful or efficient. These blown motors seem to offer better performance and better economy, plus less weight over the front axle.

Interesting that the Jap manufacturers ran away from F/I for emissions and economy etc (edit: If I remember rightly the article I read some time ago). Now the Euros are making their mark with F/I....

[planetdavo]

Plus more serviceable parts and more likely hood for failure ...
I remember this same thought being shot down in a thread on the Falcon's turbo motor, which brought up the LS1's legendary "reliability"...:hide:
Most engines easily hang together well these days, as oil quality and sophisticated computer systems remove the reliability issues they had, oh, about 25 years ago. :)

[nnickn]

Not sure about SIDI but not surprissed if its based on Ralph Sarichs direct injection. An aussie, he spent decades building a new powerfull and efficient wankel engine. During this process he developed his own direct cylinder injection system. Long story short he had little support for the motor but his injection technology is going world wide. He licences the technology to those that will pay. Most try to develop their own but just cant get it right. The technology out there is awsome but try getting your hands on it.

From memory the Sarich system increases torque by 30% and cuts emissions 80% and fuel usage by 30%. You can have your cake and eat it too.

[Deco28]

GenV V8 due in <12months. I think it has DI.

Check out gminsidenews.com, they have a big thread somewhere dedicated to it.

[redvxr8clubby]

Is SIDI that big a deal anyway, Wheels magazine tested a 3.0 and 3.6 SIDI VE's and they seemed to be mainly 100 Kmh areas and average for the test didn't get under 10.0 L/100Km , also only .4 and .5 l/100 Km better than a 4.0 Falcon also tested along with the VE's. Disappointing after all the hype really.

[Stormin]

Not sure about SIDI but not surprissed if its based on Ralph Sarichs direct injection. An aussie, he spent decades building a new powerfull and efficient wankel engine. During this process he developed his own direct cylinder injection system. Long story short he had little support for the motor but his injection technology is going world wide. He licences the technology to those that will pay. Most try to develop their own but just cant get it right. The technology out there is awsome but try getting your hands on it.

From memory the Sarich system increases torque by 30% and cuts emissions 80% and fuel usage by 30%. You can have your cake and eat it too.

The Sarich engine was an Orbital engine, not Wankel. Look similar but totally diffent concept.

[nnickn]

Correct to a point, Ralphs patent itself describes his engine as "an improved rotary". The basis was a rotary but with substantial changes.

[wablacksv8]

Is SIDI that big a deal anyway, Wheels magazine tested a 3.0 and 3.6 SIDI VE's and they seemed to be mainly 100 Kmh areas and average for the test didn't get under 10.0 L/100Km , also only .4 and .5 l/100 Km better than a 4.0 Falcon also tested along with the VE's. Disappointing after all the hype really.

You have to remember that the big sales are in fleet and the large corporate companies look seriously at emmissions/fuel usage and will tend to buy that way to be seen to be environmentaly friendly. Fleet buyers are less likely to be concerned about the lack of torque from the 3.0 SIDI engine than the lower running cost(fuel).

[muzza]

The SIDI commodores returned a lot better real-world figures than the old PFI 3.6's - the fact that they bettered the Falcon by about 1/2 a litre means they have actually improved by 1 litre or more compared to previous comparos if memory serves correctly - Commodores always seemed to be worse than the Falcons even with their 4.0 engine.

PlanetDavo is correct-if you follow Euro developments they are all dropping capacity and going for forced-induction (they already mostly have direct injection).

If GM do DI the V8 it may well drop capacity too.

With ever tighter fuel econonmy and emission regs there is not much choice.

[F6 Hoon]

The SIDI commodores returned a lot better real-world figures than the old PFI 3.6's - the fact that they bettered the Falcon by about 1/2 a litre means they have actually improved by 1 litre or more compared to previous comparos if memory serves correctly - Commodores always seemed to be worse than the Falcons even with their 4.0 engine.


Maybe on paper, but not in a real world situation. I've searched this forum for the article but could find it, nevermind here it is. http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/going-the-distance-20091009-gqou.html

So it seems the Falcon is more fuel efficient than the SIDI Commodore, and is more comfortable to drive.

Who's more likely to give you real-world fuel economy? Ford, of course! :lol:

[planetdavo]

Maybe on paper, but not in a real world situation. I've searched this forum for the article but could find it, nevermind here it is. http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/going-the-distance-20091009-gqou.html

So it seems the Falcon is more fuel efficient than the SIDI Commodore, and is more comfortable to drive.

Who's more likely to give you real-world fuel economy? Ford, of course! :lol:

So, we have one Wheels mag story that says sidi is more economical, one one smh story that says Ford is more economical, on a car that's barely been released, and hardly anyone on this forum has even driven. :rolleyes:
How many of you realise the Aurion 3.5 has had direct injection from the day it was released?
You're all letting hype and emotion cloud this update, which is leading to a whole pile of sh!t being posted...

[F6 Hoon]

So, we have one Wheels mag story that says sidi is more economical, one one smh story that says Ford is more economical, on a car that's barely been released, and hardly anyone on this forum has even driven. :rolleyes:
How many of you realise the Aurion 3.5 has had direct injection from the day it was released?
You're all letting hype and emotion cloud this update, which is leading to a whole pile of sh!t being posted...

I agree, and the reports are contradictory. Holden will have you believe a trip from Melbourne to Sydney is do-able on one tank of fuel. Sure, maybe if you drive at 60-80km/h with the A/C off. A 1000km test around Bathurst at 50km/h shows the Falcon used 10% less fuel than the SIDI Commodore, and the Commodore itself doesn't get anywhere near it's claimed fuel economy.

Either way I couldn't care, I wouldn't buy either vehicle.

[planetdavo]

Either way I couldn't care, I wouldn't buy either vehicle.
As most of this forum wouldn't.
But, that leads to why this forum isn't a good judge of the worth of these engines. When SV6 has consistently been the best selling private owner model in the VE range, the "average" private VE Commodore buyer clearly wont be represented by the views of much of this forum!

[Marco]

How many of you realise the Aurion 3.5 has had direct injection from the day it was released?

Are you sure? Toyota's own website makes no mention of direct injection in the Aurion; it simply states "multi-point injection". Given that Toyota is a company that once built a marketing campaign around the idea of an engine that ingested air and called it the "02 Advantage", you would think that they would be shouting about direct injection from the rooftops!

[GODSMACK]

Posted elsewhere, thought id share....

I was very surprised to read the article in the Melbourne Age today that in their test the 3.0 litre SIDI used 10 percent more fuel when compared to a car of similar weight powered by an oversized ultra low tech 50 year old ex truck motor.

In addition the the rough as guts old truck motor seems to have more urge.

This test was done by people that could not be described as Ford lovers.

The article is going to hurt the Holden SIDI marketing push. I was thinking of getting a 3.0 SIDI but not now.

[FlatfootV8]

Maybe on paper, but not in a real world situation. I've searched this forum for the article but could find it, nevermind here it is. http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/going-the-distance-20091009-gqou.html

So it seems the Falcon is more fuel efficient than the SIDI Commodore, and is more comfortable to drive.

Who's more likely to give you real-world fuel economy? Ford, of course! :lol:


Yeah testing the cars on a race track will give accurate results. :p
I really wonder how many people drive on that track to get to and from work?
;)

Its the reason why I don't take much motoring publicists as 100% fact I prefer my own real world experience to tell me the story of the cars. I like to find out for myself.

[smaky]

Ever since I was a boy I've been taken by that lumpy V8 rumble. Would love to see more effort go into making these engines more competitive with F/I 4s and 6s whilst still retaining "that sound". Vrooom!

[planetdavo]

Are you sure? Toyota's own website makes no mention of direct injection in the Aurion; it simply states "multi-point injection". Given that Toyota is a company that once built a marketing campaign around the idea of an engine that ingested air and called it the "02 Advantage", you would think that they would be shouting about direct injection from the rooftops!
They use the Lexus 3.5 direct injection V6.
This considerably more powerful 3.5 engine had a matching 9.9L/100 ADR economy as the 2.4 port injected Camry at launch.

[FlatfootV8]

They use the Lexus 3.5 direct injection V6.
This considerably more powerful 3.5 engine had a matching 9.9L/100 ADR economy as the 2.4 port injected Camry at launch.

The Aurion uses the 2GR-FE not the 2GR-FSE (which has direct injection).

[planetdavo]

The Aurion uses the 2GR-FE not the 2GR-FSE (which has direct injection).

If that's the case I will admit I am wrong. I remembered hearing about direct injection engines at launch. Perhaps what I heard was about other versions of the engine available.

[Ellistwo]

Is the SIDI entered in the Global Green Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide ?

[ccclv]

Here is a pic of the speedo in my stock VE SS the other day, I had just filled up with fuel.

not sidi but still looked strange to see that sort of economy


http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/ccclv_2006/IMG00258-20100514-1124.jpg