VF Commodore - Part 1

[Moderators]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 96095

[falcom]

With most motor reports hinting that the new FG Falcon now has the edge over the VE Commodore, it begs the question of what Holden has in store when the new VF Commodore arrives.

So assuming Holden read this forum lets tell them what we want in the VF.
Let’s keep the suggestions realistic and not over the top (eg: LS7 IN SS)


Omega/Berlina to get 5 Speed Auto and 195 kW version of V6 (Maybe upgraded to 200kw).
SV6/Calais/V to get Direct Injection V6 (approx 225kw/370nm) & 6 Speed Auto (This engine is a must)
V6 models still to Harsh under acceleration. (NVH improvements required).
Reverse sensors standard on all models (except Omega).
Front Sensors to be available as at least an option on all models.
Front end to get a more Aggressive/Modern treatment (new lights, grill/front bar)(especially SV6/SS/V).
Rear taillights to be of a similar design to Coupe 60.
Steering Wheel to be of a new design. (More sporty) (Looks too much like a Mitsubishi wheel).
Cruise control to be on Steering Wheel.
A model to compete with XR6T (SV6TT: Twin turbo HFV6)
V8 Models to get DOD and approx 290KW.
Keyless Entry.
Keyless Ignition.(Push button ignition is more of a gimmick but gives the car a more sporty feel)
Weight reduction (If it can be done economically).
With fuel prices continually rising V6 models to sacrifice a bit of power /acceleration for economy. (With the upgraded engines it will still have more power than outgoing VE)
Ford have stated that their new V6 in 2010 will have significantly better fuel economy than current engine.Ford already has an advantage with economy as VF will eventually compete with FGII, Holden must improve economy significantly. (Will have to be under 10l/100km to compete).
Ford interior now a step above Commodore. (At least upgrade materials and maybe centre console design)(Get rid of the cheap looking red led display in centre console) (Large LCD displays are becoming the norm).
Large LCD display screen in dash to be standard across range (Monochrome display on low models & Colour on
Higher end Models with the ability to be able to option Colour Screen on models with monochrome displays)
SV6/SS/V to be lowered slightly. (Approx 15mm).
Quality control still an issue (Noisy suspension, squeaks in dash, recalls, etc)(improved quality control).
5 year warranty. (This would give perception immediately that quality has improved) (Or maybe a small fee ($200 at time of purchase) to upgrade from 3 year to 5 year warranty.
Fixed price services for the life of the warranty. (My dealer has ripped me off more than once)
More Colour choices.
To be able to have more wheel choices as a no cost option. (eg:to have 3 or 4 different 18-inch wheels available for SV6/SS as a no cost option or be able to upgrade to 19 inch for reasonable price)(Upgrade price at the moment is ridiculous)(This will help clients individualise their cars more)

[Regul8]

I reckon you are right my comment was more the fact it isnt a SSV/G8

def a berlina ...

[cdbrown]

Fixed price services would be fantastic - why can't they just do it now so when calling for a quote and book in for a service you'll know exactly what the final cost is going to be, not told a general service figure plus consumables and other costs.

[vyls1wa]

you cant be serious, im hoping that was c/p from the old thread, even if holden to notice of peoples suggestions, what vf is maybe a year a way, vf will be well and truely in its last stages. Its all well and good to sit here and make a wish list, its all speculation and bs ,really none of us have a clue what the vf will be about. Although the fixed servicing and warrenty issues are thing that need fixing now. Feel free to insert the boot.

[VL Executive]

I think Holden should re organise the Model line up - There are too many V Specs (Calais V, SS V) and not enough emphasis on the Berlina model, which seems to have become a tarted up Omega (gone are the days you can get a Berlina with a V8, etc)

The Berlina used to originally sit under the Calais in specification.

I say bring the Berlina up to Calais spec, and make the Calais V just the Calais again.

[OFDHZY]

I think Holden should re organise the Model line up - There are too many V Specs (Calais V, SS V) and not enough emphasis on the Berlina model, which seems to have become a tarted up Omega (gone are the days you can get a Berlina with a V8, etc)

The Berlina used to originally sit under the Calais in specification.

I say bring the Berlina up to Calais spec, and make the Calais V just the Calais again.

So tue...in not a fan of the current ss / ss v arrangement either, IMO i think they should make the current spec SS a SV8 .... maybe only have more herbs on the VF SS... which infact will be a VE SSV replacement..

[falcom]

The list above is what I come up with about 18 months ago so needless to say a few things have changed since then.

Now that Holden have fixed the V6 engine problems I think for VF high priority must be given to significantly update the interior (a $25,000 Cruze feels more modern inside then a $50,000 Commodore) and the exterior probably only needs a minor update.(new front bar,lights,rear bar and tail lights with new wheels and colours)

I am not sure if it can be done economically but I think the front wheel arches need to be toned down slightly.(or given a more cohesive look) and hopefully they can get a bit of weight out of the car as well.

I for one was ready to buy the "New" Commodore this year but when it was released with no visual or interior changes I decided against it.(along with a few other people I know)

Does anybody have any concrete information of when the VF will come out?(Most people are guessing around Sep 2010)

[Jac001]

I think Holden should re organise the Model line up - There are too many V Specs (Calais V, SS V) and not enough emphasis on the Berlina model, which seems to have become a tarted up Omega (gone are the days you can get a Berlina with a V8, etc)

The Berlina used to originally sit under the Calais in specification.

I say bring the Berlina up to Calais spec, and make the Calais V just the Calais again.

Theres just too many models!

Make a omega, berlina and calais and SS.

Offer the omega and berlina with an optional sports bodykit (alla sv6) and offer v8 on berlina.

V8 Calais with sports bodykit = SS

[Party Pete]

I agree with the comments on the models and the interior quality. I'll add small list of things that I think let Holden down, particularly the Calais V:

* Touch screens are cheap now, why not use them;
* Ipod integration means integrated functionality, not a headphone socket;
* Auto up on power windows has been common place for over a decade, why not on Holden;
* Why do I have to spend $60,000 to get electric seats;
* Premium audio does not mean chucking in a cheap sub, how about at least * Putting in some reasonable speakers as well;
* Surely with an electronic gearbox and throttle it is possible to have the revs sync when down changing;
* How hard is it to give shift buttons on the steering wheel;
* Please put some better shockers on, the Monroes are crap and always have been. Why spend all that money on designing good suspension and then ruin it with cheap shocks;
* How about a sports pack like BMW and Mercedes do for those who don't want a HSV but would like better brakes, firmer suspension and a better exhaust note? Or you could just put decent brakes on the standard car, at least when fitted with the V8;
* Satnav is worth closer to $200 than $2000. No wonder everyone buys a Navman;
* Satnav and sunroof should be standard for $60,000 on the road, why are they missing from the Calais V;
* The interior plastics are horrible, they seriously need an upgrade; and finally
* The sales staff need to change their attitude. If you go into a Mercedes or BMW dealership they immediately start justifying why you really should pay the extra for their cars. Go to a Holden dealership and they normally don't seem to know or care why you would buy a Holden over any of the cheaper Japanese competition.

I am sure that people look at this list and say that these would raise the price too much, but most are electronics which are cheap and fitted to the opposition for less than the price of a Calais V. For most drivers out there who can't tell the difference between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive, the Calais and Calais V do not stack up as value on the showroom floor.

[Black AH CDX]

* Surely with an electronic gearbox and throttle it is possible to have the revs sync when down changing;


The new 6 speed auto on the SIDI's does this

[macca_779]

In RED my thoughts



I agree with the comments on the models and the interior quality. I'll add small list of things that I think let Holden down, particularly the Calais V:

* Touch screens are cheap now, why not use them; Absolutley
* Ipod integration means integrated functionality, not a headphone socket; Yep
* Auto up on power windows has been common place for over a decade, why not on Holden; E2 has it I believe
* Why do I have to spend $60,000 to get electric seats; You get 4 way stock but yes I see what you mean but remember Holden has to retain some aspects for higher end models
* Premium audio does not mean chucking in a cheap sub, how about at least * Putting in some reasonable speakers as well; They do. BOSE is in the high end LWB models
* Surely with an electronic gearbox and throttle it is possible to have the revs sync when down changing; They have done that for quite some time now on the V8's and who gives a shit about the crappy 6's
* How hard is it to give shift buttons on the steering wheel; They've done that in VZ and went away from it thankfully as its stupid.
* Please put some better shockers on, the Monroes are crap and always have been. Why spend all that money on designing good suspension and then ruin it with cheap shocks; They aren't that bad
* How about a sports pack like BMW and Mercedes do for those who don't want a HSV but would like better brakes, firmer suspension and a better exhaust note? Or you could just put decent brakes on the standard car, at least when fitted with the V8; Buy a HSV
* Satnav is worth closer to $200 than $2000. No wonder everyone buys a Navman; Very True
* Satnav and sunroof should be standard for $60,000 on the road, why are they missing from the Calais V; Also True
* The interior plastics are horrible, they seriously need an upgrade; Yep the plastics are cheap shit. The older models felt better
and finally
* The sales staff need to change their attitude. If you go into a Mercedes or BMW dealership they immediately start justifying why you really should pay the extra for their cars. Go to a Holden dealership and they normally don't seem to know or care why you would buy a Holden over any of the cheaper Japanese competition. Thats dealer dependant

I am sure that people look at this list and say that these would raise the price too much, but most are electronics which are cheap and fitted to the opposition for less than the price of a Calais V. For most drivers out there who can't tell the difference between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive, the Calais and Calais V do not stack up as value on the showroom floor.

[Party Pete]

I agree that Holden wants to give people the reason to buy higher models but you have to be careful not to have them choose something else. The opposition are putting in things like proper electric seats a lower in the range and Holden is losing sales against them.

Regarding the stereo quality, the Caprice does have a better system, but is Holden seriously saying that you have to buy an even bigger and heavier car just to get an acceptable stereo. I don't expect $5000 of hifi, but at least put in something worth more than about $50.

Regarding the sports pack option, a lot of people are put off by the HSV styling and I am one. Holden on the other hand has a problem with arguing with customers about warranty claims on modified cars. Why not have a properly factory backed pack which allows customers to add on the most common mods from Holden? It clearly needs to stay out of HSV's field, but then Mercedes, BMW and Audi manage to fit a sport pack in for customers who want the car to be a bit different while still having their dedicated performance division producing the hot versions. Perhaps HSV could be doing the engineering of these under contract from Holden. Plus, it is the options that make so much easy money for the German makes.

I realise that sales staff are primarily the responsibility of the dealership, but then Holden loses sales if they don't do it properly. Clearly BMW and Mercedes make sure that the sales staff have a well practiced spiel to try to convince you that you are paying a premium for a reason. At Mercedes they start showing you the build details which they say justifies the price, at BMW they tell you at least 10 times per minute about their 50/50 weight distribution and being the ultimate driving machine. The thing is that the Holden has inherent advantages over the front wheel drive dross coming out of Japan but the dealers don't tell you that. Actually the last few times I have been to a dealership I have got the feeling that they know considerably less about the cars than I do.

[moconn20]

Actually the last few times I have been to a dealership I have got the feeling that they know considerably less about the cars than I do.

Case in point, went to a local Holden dealer to (very) briefly look at a Cruze for the missus when they first came out... when we asked the dealer why none of them came with bluetooth, even as an option, the reply from him was...

"Oh whatever, who uses bluetooth these days anyway"

Out of touch, much?

[planetdavo]

Case in point, went to a local Holden dealer to (very) briefly look at a Cruze for the missus when they first came out... when we asked the dealer why none of them came with bluetooth, even as an option, the reply from him was...

"Oh whatever, who uses bluetooth these days anyway"

Out of touch, much?
I went to a supermarket yesterday after work, and heard the kid at the seafood counter tell a lady the difference between two choices of green prawns on display was that one was cooked, and the other were raw.
Green prawns are, of course, uncooked prawns.
It's all down to the people employed. People are kidding themselves if they think it is limited to car salesman.

[Party Pete]

I certainly aren't saying it is only car salesmen. I am not even saying the Holden dealers are worse than others. What I am saying is that Commodores are no longer the cheap option which sells itself without any effort. Making a large rear wheel drive car with a 5 star safety rating is expensive. The benefits are there but many of the sales staff don't really sell those benefits. You may not think that there is anything in common between the markets because Mercedes are a prestige brand, but then the Commodore starts at $40,000 now and you can spend $100,000 for top end Holdens now. Most Mercedes sales of for less than that too so perhaps what Holden needs to do is have a look at how to sell the Commodore as a premium product, not as a cheap family wagon... or they could continue to try to sell it on price and end up like GM in the US.

[planetdavo]

A best friends parents are rich, with a flash house a more than one property in Port Douglas. They have been new model BMW buyers for many years.
Not too long ago, the BMW salesman showed little interest in selling them a 3 series convertible, so they went to a Merc dealer and bought one of their new convertibles instead. BMW will most likely lose several sales now, all because of one salesman's lack of interest one day.
A designer suit and fancy aftershave do not make a salesman successful...:teach:

[Party Pete]

I agree with you on that and great sucks to the BMW salesman. My observation is that on average the salesmen for prestige German brands seem to be better drilled on the importance of not making this stupid error. This is only my observations though, maybe it is just how it has worked out for me over the years.

[Rick]

I agree with the comments on the models and the interior quality. I'll add small list of things that I think let Holden down, particularly the Calais V:

* Touch screens are cheap now, why not use them;
* Ipod integration means integrated functionality, not a headphone socket;
* Auto up on power windows has been common place for over a decade, why not on Holden;
* Why do I have to spend $60,000 to get electric seats;
* Premium audio does not mean chucking in a cheap sub, how about at least * Putting in some reasonable speakers as well;
* Surely with an electronic gearbox and throttle it is possible to have the revs sync when down changing;
* How hard is it to give shift buttons on the steering wheel;
* Please put some better shockers on, the Monroes are crap and always have been. Why spend all that money on designing good suspension and then ruin it with cheap shocks;
* How about a sports pack like BMW and Mercedes do for those who don't want a HSV but would like better brakes, firmer suspension and a better exhaust note? Or you could just put decent brakes on the standard car, at least when fitted with the V8;
* Satnav is worth closer to $200 than $2000. No wonder everyone buys a Navman;
* Satnav and sunroof should be standard for $60,000 on the road, why are they missing from the Calais V;
* The interior plastics are horrible, they seriously need an upgrade; and finally
* The sales staff need to change their attitude. If you go into a Mercedes or BMW dealership they immediately start justifying why you really should pay the extra for their cars. Go to a Holden dealership and they normally don't seem to know or care why you would buy a Holden over any of the cheaper Japanese competition.

I am sure that people look at this list and say that these would raise the price too much, but most are electronics which are cheap and fitted to the opposition for less than the price of a Calais V. For most drivers out there who can't tell the difference between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive, the Calais and Calais V do not stack up as value on the showroom floor.

Absolutely. Agree 100%.

And ditto the SS-V.

[Excellent]

That's a great list Party Pete.

I especially agree about the part where Holden should offer a sports kit for those who don't want a HSV. Actually, I agree with pretty much everything you posted. :)

[Torxteer]

* Auto up on power windows has been common place for over a decade, why not on Holden;


Does anyone really worry about this? Auto windows get annoying.

[macca_779]

Does anyone really worry about this? Auto windows get annoying.

Hell yes people want this. Having to hold the switch is annoying.

[fx160]

auto up and down windows can be just as annoying having them as not having them
on more than one occasion i have gone to open the passenger window just a little
looked over and it's all the way down:)
i also tend to hold the buton all the way up before realising
but thats only because i dive a couple of diferent cars

kev

[planetdavo]

auto up and down windows can be just as annoying having them as not having them
on more than one occasion i have gone to open the passenger window just a little
looked over and it's all the way down:)
i also tend to hold the buton all the way up before realising
but thats only because i dive a couple of diferent cars

kev
Tend to agree.
The Monaro has auto down only windows, whereas the company Astra has auto down and up front windows. It's very easy to get distracted punching window buttons trying to stop them doing something you don't want them to do.
Perhaps it's more likely when you drive more than one car, but many people do.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------


Hell yes people want this. Having to hold the switch is annoying.
Perhaps we can also have indicators that work off brain waves, as many people find using an indicator to be very annoying as well...:stick:

[oranpark_addict]

[/COLOR]
Perhaps we can also have indicators that work off brain waves, as many people find using an indicator to be very annoying as well...:stick:

ROFL, yeah why not!!!

[gtr27]

Ummm....am i missing something I have a VE Calais V and it has auto up/down on the drivers side......just have to hold the switch for >0.5 sec. Even says so in the manual.

Global open/close on the remote like euro cars would be nice (hold open butto, it unlocks all doors and opens all windows/sunroof).

Having the electric seat move to position based on which key remote unlocked it. Having the steering wheel adjustment to link in with this would be nice also. Having memory for radio & a/c settings based on key used would be great also.

(i.e. i have one key with mirror settings/seat settings/audio & climate settings on it and partner has a key with all her settings, and whoever's remote unlocks the car, it applies all those settings)

Having a decent auto gearbox for the V8 models. Man up and admit the ZF is light years ahead and switch to them. The 6L80 is a piece of shit.

Agree with the audio comments. Focus on NVH on premium models (i.e. unacceptable tire roar. Shit i spent $220 on quality sound deadning and it made a world of difference. do this stock!)

Otherwise i think each of the models are reasonably well situated, and reflect the part of the market they are aimed at.

Perhaps get a 3L turbo diesel as an option for the up spec models and a smaller 2.5L for the lower models (like BMW's 535D as premium engine and 520D base diesel).

[DuffMan]

Ummm....am i missing something I have a VE Calais V and it has auto up/down on the drivers side......just have to hold the switch for >0.5 sec. Even says so in the manual.

My SSV ute has auto up and down on both driver and passenger windows. Certainly not just an HSV E2 change.

[seedyrom]

Fantastic work Party Pete.
I agree whole heartedly


What I am saying is that Commodores are no longer the cheap option which sells itself without any effort. [snip] You may not think that there is anything in common between the markets because Mercedes are a prestige brand, but then the Commodore starts at $40,000 now and you can spend $100,000 for top end Holdens now.

Companies need to wake up.
Look at what happened to Encyclopedia Britanica.
They rested on their laurels. Though they were the bee's knees. The the Internet collapsed their company.

VB beer. One in every four beers sold in Australia, is VB.
But on sale, I can now get a case of imported German beer, cheaper than VB.
What does VB/CUB do? They start decreasing alcohol content and up the price.
:eek: :confused:

If you treat the Australian purchaser like an idiot, they will vote with their wallets.
We like to support the home team, but not when they spit in our faces

[Rick]

Well said, Party Pete and seedyrom.

We have an SSV Wagon and a Golf GTI MkV DSG, and I drive both often. My summation is that the VW Germany likes (loves?) its customers and tries really hard to make them happy. You drive it, and you smile.

I'm not sure that Holden hates its customers, but by golly it treats them with disdain/contempt. An SSV auto wagon is now just on $60k plus OTR which with LCT takes it to what, $67K+? A lot of money. By the way I just realised that the wagon is now $2k up on the sedan, not $1k. Not sure when that happened?

So, back to the plot. (In the Golf) the window switches on the driver's door fall readily to hand (in the Holden I still have to look down at the central window switches, after 14k km. but Holden only need to make 6 switches not 7 and don't need to worry about the cost of flexible wiring to the door). All 7 in the Golf have dual function, press it half way and it only opens/closes until you release it, press it fully and all 7 have auto up and down. Even the low-$20k Polo free loan car that the dealer gives me has this (what, Holden don't do loan cars?).

I consider auto up and down a safety issue as having to hold the button until the passenger window is fully down on a hot day means no hand on the wheel/gearstick/blinkers until it is all done. Yes I have a manual, I can still drive. The VW dual-touch overcomes the objections earlier in this thread re finding the window unexpectedly fully down etc. You are in control.

One of my many minor objections in the Holden is not having the time and temp always in front of me in the driver's display. Having the display not far off (or even the same?) as Omega-level in a car of this cost is part of it, part of it is just dumb design (refer above re disdain). Having to press the button for outside temp, every time you get in, ditto. I think even our VT Berlina showed the temp without pressing a button, but could be wrong. We have had so many Holdens.

And no glovebox light?

Today, as I do each week, I checked the engine oil level. We have a very well lit garage, 4 globes each approx 140W of light (stupid CFLs...). It is almost impossible to find the dipstick hole when putting it back, there is no yellow ring around the tube. And the radiator water level is not a straight visual check. You have to do a dipstick-type check, and it is very hard to read when you do.

There are many more, but that will do for now. It is still a performance bargain and I plan on keeping it. In a week it is getting a tune, cat-back, CAI and gear-shift. Why is the gear-shift so bad and why does it have to sizzle? Sorry I promised to stop.

Rick

[Party Pete]

Regarding the electric window switches, spot on about the two position switch. We bought my wife a Merc and it has them and they are great. Mercedes was doing these on base models 10 years ago so I would have thought Holden could have moved up by now.

Just last week I had a look at a GTS and I can't convince my wife to let me sell the Monaro for one. The sole reason is the interior which she rightly points out would feel cheap in a $20,000 car and in a $80,000 is a deal breaker. For interest we went and had a look down the road at the competition and the FPV F6E just kills the HSV inside. If Holden does nothing else, they must redo the interior for the VF.

[planetdavo]

So, back to the plot. (In the Golf) the window switches on the driver's door fall readily to hand (in the Holden I still have to look down at the central window switches, after 14k km. but Holden only need to make 6 switches not 7 and don't need to worry about the cost of flexible wiring to the door). All 7 in the Golf have dual function, press it half way and it only opens/closes until you release it, press it fully and all 7 have auto up and down. Even the low-$20k Polo free loan car that the dealer gives me has this (what, Holden don't do loan cars?).

I consider auto up and down a safety issue as having to hold the button until the passenger window is fully down on a hot day means no hand on the wheel/gearstick/blinkers until it is all done. Yes I have a manual, I can still drive. The VW dual-touch overcomes the objections earlier in this thread re finding the window unexpectedly fully down etc. You are in control.


Rick
Holden stated they put the switches in the console as it simplifies conversion to left hand drive.
In case you hadn't realised, VW profit from selling about 50 billion Golfs a year, whereas Holden couldn't even crack 200,000 when the full export program was running. Less cars equals less money for development, which leads to this sort of compromise.
If it's such a big deal, feel free to continue buying imported cars, and wave Holden goodbye when they (and Ford) are forced to close. :teach:
PS: I wouldn't get too high and mighty about being "in control" whilst owning a VW. Their cost cutting (yes, them too) means if you drive a manual, you need to somehow change gears and use the left hand side indicator stalk both at the same time with your left hand...:)

[Evman]

I think that window switches in the middle makes perfect sense. Where are the radio controls? In the middle. Where is the gearshifter? In the middle. Where are the climate controls? In the middle. All of these require the use of the left hand to operate, so it's logical to put the window switches in the middle too.

And Rick, I have to look to find window switches on doors but can locate mine in my car straight away without looking.

[ti0350]

I think that window switches in the middle makes perfect sense. Where are the radio controls? In the middle. Where is the gearshifter? In the middle. Where are the climate controls? In the middle. All of these require the use of the left hand to operate, so it's logical to put the window switches in the middle too.

And Rick, I have to look to find window switches on doors but can locate mine in my car straight away without looking.

I agree I love having the window switches in the middle easy to find without looking.

[BECAUZ]

Oh so much mega negativity.

Who cares about where window switches are or whether or not the missus doesn't like something. No on has forced anyone to buy one. Just think back and remember the original appeal it had which made you buy one in the first place.

And im sure they wopuld have checked to see what side would have been more feesible to put some switches on.

All i know is i have no complaints about my SSV. Window switches in the middle? Woopdi doo, atleast there switches and not the old winding type.

[Fnomna]

In my first car, the switches were in the middle. That was a VH SL/E.
And my next car had them there too (VT). And my wife's Vectra (JSII).
So I guess it's just what I'm used to. It actually feels awkward when i find myself driving a car with them on the driver's side.
I think it's also better since the passenger can operate the windows (for the kids in the back etc) while the driver concentrates on driving.

[Carby]

Crikey - this Rick guy should look at the reliability surveys in the US - Basically VW build quality is ultra ordinary - a fact borne out by people in our office who seem to have various electrical issues with their VW's.

As for the the placement of window buttons in the drivers door - totally dopey - no need for the extra wiring and for most people it would mean taking their dominate hand of the steering wheel to get a window to move - also allows water to run down the door into the electrical control buttons if it is raining - Holden and SAAB have it right on this one!

[KingClifton]

I still can't see why Holden can't do auto up/down on all switches. They do on the Senator (and presumably the Caprice) so why not just all models? It's probably purely software. It's not just Europeans that do it - my MX-6 12 years ago had it.

[planetdavo]

I still can't see why Holden can't do auto up/down on all switches. They do on the Senator (and presumably the Caprice) so why not just all models? It's probably purely software. It's not just Europeans that do it - my MX-6 12 years ago had it.
It's all cost. Half this forum want a Calais for Omega money. Please see my answer about the VW world wide sales above, and subsitute your Mazda example.
Also, above the simple auto up feature, unless you want to decapitate the fingers of your loved ones, auto up windows also require the ability to detect when they have resistence before reaching the top of the frame.
Well, I hope all those other cars do. Anyone want to confirm these other cars all have this fitted???

[DuffMan]

I guess I wasn't being clear enough when I stated the new ones DO have auto up several posts back. Well, at least the MY10 SSV does.

Seems to be a lot of people upset over such an insignificant little feature.

[macca_779]

It's all cost. Half this forum want a Calais for Omega money. Please see my answer about the VW world wide sales above, and subsitute your Mazda example.
Also, above the simple auto up feature, unless you want to decapitate the fingers of your loved ones, auto up windows also require the ability to detect when they have resistence before reaching the top of the frame.
Well, I hope all those other cars do. Anyone want to confirm these other cars all have this fitted???

All OEM power window systems have a load limit circuit in them Davo.. That shit aint new by a long shot.

[planetdavo]

All OEM power window systems have a load limit circuit in them Davo.. That shit aint new by a long shot.
That's why I asked the question :), but one thing has been made VERY clear in this thread. Many people simply don't give a toss whether the switches are in the console, or whether they have auto up function. I don't give a toss myself, as I was instructed from a young age to adjust items like this when stationary only as much as possible, as even going for an auto up switch whilst driving distracts you from the main task at hand, which would be maintaining maximum control of the vehicle at all times. Same goes for radio settings, mirrors, seat belts etc.

[OFDHZY]

I guess I wasn't being clear enough when I stated the new ones DO have auto up several posts back. Well, at least the MY10 SSV does.

Seems to be a lot of people upset over such an insignificant little feature.

Pretty sure my MY10 also has this feature also....

Your rite some people just like gettin themselves up into a lather over nothin in the context of things... Havin previously owned a 2004 A4 S-line .. im very happy with my SSV ute for the outlay of cash i believe my ute is a great value for money package thus far....

[Party Pete]

For a start, the US Pontiac version of the Commodore had auto up windows, and electric heating in the seats come to that, for Omega pricing. Apparently the economic realities of low build quantities apply to Australian buyers only. Frankly most people don't give to squirts about low or high volumes, they care about what they are getting for the money they pay. Just have a look at what Volkswagen gives you in terms interior quality for $40,000 in a Golf GTI and compare it to an Omega. This head in the sand attitude of excusing crap build quality because it is made locally is what killed the US car industry and it will do the same here if the manufacturers don't stop blaming everyone but themselves. People haven't stopped buying Commodores because they are large or even because they use a little more fuel. They have stopped buying them because they are charging relatively high prices and the general finish of the cars is not good enough for the money. It's called arrogance. I am one of the many people who has failed to be won over by new Commodore and it is due to the poor interior and the poor interior alone. So I stand by my original comments, Holden needs to shape up for the VF or they will end up shipping out. I just hope they are reading some of the comments here because I would hate to see them go under.

[planetdavo]

Frankly most people don't give to squirts about low or high volumes, they care about what they are getting for the money they pay. Just have a look at what Volkswagen gives you in terms interior quality for $40,000 in a Golf GTI and compare it to an Omega. This head in the sand attitude of excusing crap build quality because it is made locally is what killed the US car industry and it will do the same here if the manufacturers don't stop blaming everyone but themselves. People haven't stopped buying Commodores because they are large or even because they use a little more fuel. They have stopped buying them because they are charging relatively high prices and the general finish of the cars is not good enough for the money. It's called arrogance.
What a croc of sh!t.
Many buyers went away from Commodore for exactly the same reasons they went away from the Falcon and the Aurion. All three models offer excellent value for money. You get a big car with high tech drivelines for 4 cyl money.
1- Beliefs they use heaps of fuel, even when the reality is often nearer 4 cyl usage. This started when fuel prices rocketed and the economy dived. The media is much to blame for all the doom and gloom stories depressing everyone that didn't know better.
2- Competition. But, and it's a BIG but, not in the way you describe. Holden is one of (I believe currently) 33 different manufacturers in a 1,000,000 car market. That's a hell of a lot of different brands out there now, and it continues to grow. More brands in competition automatically mean you will lose some sales, no matter what gear you throw in the car.
3- SNOB FACTOR. Yes, many of you have it. You would rather show off to your friends and neighbours your new Euro or Japanese model than your "bogan" local model, no matter how good it is.
4- The "SUV". Many sales have been lost to the high riding SUV market. Take a cruise past a few local schools this week, and look at what are parked out the front. Tons of them.

[falcom]

For a start, the US Pontiac version of the Commodore had auto up windows, and electric heating in the seats come to that, for Omega pricing. Apparently the economic realities of low build quantities apply to Australian buyers only. Frankly most people don't give to squirts about low or high volumes, they care about what they are getting for the money they pay. Just have a look at what Volkswagen gives you in terms interior quality for $40,000 in a Golf GTI and compare it to an Omega. This head in the sand attitude of excusing crap build quality because it is made locally is what killed the US car industry and it will do the same here if the manufacturers don't stop blaming everyone but themselves. People haven't stopped buying Commodores because they are large or even because they use a little more fuel. They have stopped buying them because they are charging relatively high prices and the general finish of the cars is not good enough for the money. It's called arrogance. I am one of the many people who has failed to be won over by new Commodore and it is due to the poor interior and the poor interior alone. So I stand by my original comments, Holden needs to shape up for the VF or they will end up shipping out. I just hope they are reading some of the comments here because I would hate to see them go under.


I second that.
Holden just have to look at their own back yard with the interior of the Cruze being far more modern than the more recently released MY10 Commodore.The Cruze isn,t selling like hot cakes by accident even with the poor reviews of its engine.The interior is what is mainly selling this car.

I hope Holden learn from this.

[V8BEER]

we should maybe change the title of this thread to window switches . . .:)

[planetdavo]

I second that.
Holden just have to look at their own back yard with the interior of the Cruze being far more modern than the more recently released MY10 Commodore.The Cruze isn,t selling like hot cakes by accident even with the poor reviews of its engine.The interior is what is mainly selling this car.

I hope Holden learn from this.

Cruze is selling well because it is considered excellent value for money. What constitutes "value for money" to one buyer doesn't automatically mean the same to another buyer. The auto models come standard with a 6 speed auto (to most competitors usually 4 or rarer 5 speed options), and they feel solid as a brick when you shut the doors and take one for a drive. Both features, I might add, come "standard" on MY10 VE's too...:teach: They also offer a torquey diesel engine option as well, which is proving very popular, and being made in Korea, prices are more than competitive.
Perhaps it is a good time to remind several people that Commodore continues to remain the Number 1 selling car on the market, in a category that has seen all competitors drop market share, including Falcon with it's claimed "better" 6 speed auto, and Aurion with what was, until recently, a more advanced driveline as well.
Many buyers simply don't care as much about some of the factors that some of you guys and girls get so passionate (or fanatical) about. :)

[moconn20]

The Cruze isn't selling like hot cakes by accident ...The interior is what is mainly selling this car.

I hope Holden learn from this.

So its got nothing to do with the fact that its a new model in the small car market as opposed to the comodore which is in the large car market and is not direct competition to the cruze.

It's mainly because of the interior huh? thats funny, when i was looking at SSV wagons the interior of the cruze didnt even make me flinch towards reconsidering and buying a car that is under powered and under sized for my needs.

Did YOU buy a cruze?

[falcom]

So its got nothing to do with the fact that its a new model in the small car market as opposed to the comodore which is in the large car market and is not direct competition to the cruze.

It's mainly because of the interior huh? thats funny, when i was looking at SSV wagons the interior of the cruze didnt even make me flinch towards reconsidering and buying a car that is under powered and under sized for my needs.

Did YOU buy a cruze?

I was not directly comparing the Cruze and the Commodore.I was just making the point that Holden needs to update the interior of the Commodore.

I have spoken to people that have bought the Cruze and they all said that the interior was what made them sway towards the Cruze when comparing with other cars.

All I am saying that if Holden update the interior on the Commodore then it would be the complete package and they will start selling to the general public like hot cakes again.

[DuffMan]

So Falcom... What comparable model did you and your associates end up buying instead of the VE?

[falcom]

So Falcom... What comparable model did you and your associates end up buying instead of the VE?

None. I am hanging out for the VF.

[moconn20]

All I am saying that if Holden update the interior on the Commodore then it would be the complete package and they will start selling to the general public like hot cakes again.

So all the need to do for the VF is change the interior to look like the cruze and they will experience a large boom in sales.

You should work for Holden, you're really on the ball.

[DuffMan]

None. I am hanging out for the VF.

Why? There are cars out there now of a comparable size, V8 equipped and have a top quality interior. All the things I would assume are on your checklist. BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class come to mind.

If your waiting for a commodore to be released to be of the same quality as the above mentioned vehicles, but remain at their current pricing, you'll be waiting a looooong time :eek:

[Excellent]

Some people just want to have the latest model. I can understand people wanting to hold out for an interior upgrade. Why not, if you have the patience to wait or in no hurry to buy? :)

[falcom]

So all the need to do for the VF is change the interior to look like the cruze and they will experience a large boom in sales.

You should work for Holden, you're really on the ball.

Yes I do think they will get a big lift in sales if they update the interior and do a minor freshen up of the exterior.(Front bar,lights,rear bar,tail lights etc)

What do you suggest they do for VF?

[moconn20]

Yes I do think they will get a big lift in sales if they update the interior and do a minor freshen up of the exterior.(Front bar,lights,rear bar,tail lights etc)

What do you suggest they do for VF?

Quite frankly im happy with my SSV wagon...

But what are they likely to do?

More than just an interior upgrade to create "complete package" as you said previously..... which also now apparently includes an exterior makeover.

A cosmetic "freshen up" wont greatly increase sales without some changes underneath.... They will do their usual deal of slight KW increases and some new gimmicks... like auto up windows and extended cruise control. And probably some hideous new hero colour.

Oh and maybe a smaller steering wheel just so you're happy.

I liked the interior of the VE when it first came out but I cannot believe how fast they have aged. For starters the steering wheel is to big.


Some people can never be pleased.

[planetdavo]

Quote time!
"Familiarlarity breeds contempt".
:)

[Party Pete]

Sorry guys, Holden is losing market share here and I still believe that the interior is a big part of it. I am a case in point. I bought 4 Holdens in a row all less than 2 years apart. Each model was a higher model then the previous one and I spent more money on each one. Then they bring out the VE which has an immediate appeal with that great exterior and superior chassis but with a cheap looking interior that has put me off buying one each time. Despite my best efforts I have now had the Monaro over 5 years, the longest I have ever owned a car. Still, you can pretend that it is all the presses fault for making people fear fuel prices. GM did this in the US too, blaming everything but their own penny pinching approach to quality for their demise and then going to the Government for a handout when everyone stopped buying them.

Why do people insist that Australia's pricing for BMW and Mercedes is a valid comparison. We pay far too much for these cars compared to other countries. Besides which, the premium price of those cars doesn't just go on trim materials, you are getting cutting edge technology many years before most manufacturers will follow suit. You pay for the R&D that keeps them in front. At the end of the day though, if Volkswagen, Suburu, Mazda, Volvo etc can produce a decent interior for reasonable prices so can Holden. God, even Ford is doing a reasonable job. I am not talking about the Omega here either, though it isn't very good come to that, but look at the pricing for a Calais V, $57,000 before on-roads. It gets worse the more you spend because expectations are rightly higher. The GTS I looked at the other day didn't even have the red interior plastics matching the colour of the red leather. That just says they don't give a s**t.

For the record though, I don't care where the power window switches are. I can adapt.:)

[jono_xuv53]

Yes I do think they will get a big lift in sales if they update the interior and do a minor freshen up of the exterior.(Front bar,lights,rear bar,tail lights etc)

What do you suggest they do for VF?

just dont do what HSV did:)

[planetdavo]

Despite my best efforts I have now had the Monaro over 5 years, the longest I have ever owned a car.

The Monaro tends to be that kind of car Pete...:teach:
The best interior in the world wouldn't have made me sell my Monaro for a VE, even though VE is a good car. :)

---------- Post added at 05:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 AM ----------


just dont do what HSV did:)

Even though an increase in HSV sales is virtually guaranteed, from all the buyers that thought E1 was too plain...:stick:

[Party Pete]

You have a point because the Monaro is a bit special, but then the right car could tempt me me out, but it has to something that doesn't feel like I have gone backwards.

I feel I should clarify that I don't have a great problem with the basic design of the VE interior or think that it needs a complete redesign. My issue is with the quality of some of the materials. Even if they just replaced that horrible plastic they put on top of the dash and the door trims it would be a start. The Statesman comes across a whole lot better with a very similar basic design by putting a better single piece dash top on.

Of course the tempting thing about the VE is the later chassis. I can't deny that the Monaro felt slightly out of date after doing a run up my favourite piece of road in the VE GTS.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

yes the maloo is a far better thing to ride in and steer then the gto but it still looks the part especially the interior yellow and black with the buckets seats in the rear

[gondy]

i agree with the interior being of lesser quality compared to earlier models,
my VZ has a better feel and look than my brothers VE. it feels like a step back in quality with the plastics having a very cheap feel and look to them which is one of the main reasons i haven't updated

[dunny15]

i have heard that when vf arrives it will have a lot more gizmos inside, touch screens etc on high spec models

[Party Pete]

I hope you are right because I'd still like a reason to own one.

On the topic of VF changes I have thought of a couple more. The Calais V should be more of a short wheelbase Caprice. I would thing a lot of people probably like the extra features of the Caprice like Bose stereo and Nappa leather but don't really want the longer wheelbase. Also, at the current price Holden should really consider whether Sat Nav should be standard. Also, for the HSV models, I noted when looking at them the other week that the full power seats in the GTS and Senator don't go as low as the Clubsport seats. It would be great if they could find a way of fixing this as I like to sit lower in the car.

[moconn20]

i have heard that when vf arrives it will have a lot more gizmos inside, touch screens etc on high spec models

Who or what is your reliable source?

and johnno down at the local doesnt count.

[KRUEGER]

Been in both a VE SS and a VZ SSZ and the VZ interior looks and feels much better imo. The VF interior needs a big update in terms of quality to even bring it up to scratch with the last of the VZ's. Im looking to pickup a VZ instead of VE for this very reason.

[falcom]

Been in both a VE SS and a VZ SSZ and the VZ interior looks and feels much better imo. The VF interior needs a big update in terms of quality to even bring it up to scratch with the last of the VZ's. Im looking to pickup a VZ instead of VE for this very reason.

Even though I agree with you that the interior of the VE is its weak point,I would have to say that if I had to pick between a VZ and VE I would pick the VE everytime as it is superior dynamically and styling wise.

[redvxr8clubby]

Been in both a VE SS and a VZ SSZ and the VZ interior looks and feels much better imo. The VF interior needs a big update in terms of quality to even bring it up to scratch with the last of the VZ's. Im looking to pickup a VZ instead of VE for this very reason.

Realistically a VZ SSZ should be compared to it's equivalent in the VE range - an SSV. A VE SS is really an SV8 equivalent, but acknowledge specs go up from model to model (eg seats an VE SS, I would say are upspec from VZ SV8 seats). But agreed the VF just has to have the interior improved.

[KRUEGER]

Even though I agree with you that the interior of the VE is its weak point,I would have to say that if I had to pick between a VZ and VE I would pick the VE everytime as it is superior dynamically and styling wise.

The only issue which I might regret would be the 6.0 litre V8 and 6 speed auto in the VE as opposed to the 5.7 V8 and 4 speed auto in the VZ (not withstanding the 6.0 litre VZ's which are a rip off). Styling wise I like the smaller VZ body anyways.

What are the chances of Holden dropping the ZF 6 speed auto into the VF?

[Excellent]

Holden are really letting themselves down with a lack of appointments in VE. It's probably why the sales gap has narrowed to Falcon.

Where the Cruze offers great value for money, it's a wonder how Holden haven't given the VE the same level of value. Owners shouldn't have to fork out 60 large to get on VE when what is available on some smaller cars is standard for around half the price.

Let's hope VF is more than just a mild upgrade.

[super coach]

Monaro & VZ a winner with the interior so much better then the VE. I love my VE company car but when i get into it so bland and boring. Had an XR6 as hire car. FRick that interior is so so so nice. Was so convinced that I would trade and buy an XR6 cos the outsie looked good PLUS the seats interior, layout and functions were great.

[planetdavo]

Holden are really letting themselves down with a lack of appointments in VE. It's probably why the sales gap has narrowed to Falcon.

Where the Cruze offers great value for money, it's a wonder how Holden haven't given the VE the same level of value. Owners shouldn't have to fork out 60 large to get on VE when what is available on some smaller cars is standard for around half the price.

Let's hope VF is more than just a mild upgrade.

There's another way you can look at this. I use this example because it is the one most relevant to this forum.
Compare the premium charged for a V8 engine in Australia to the premium charged for a V8 in most other parts of the world. Bar the US perhaps, the "penalty" for upgrading to a V8 is seriously frightening.
Yes, we might miss out on some of the finer points compared to other parts of the world, but we get extremely cheap V8's.
Would everyone be happier getting a flasher interior, but also a $15,000 upgrade cost to a V8, rather than a third of that we currently have???
:)
PS: The sales gap has narrowed because FG started at a frighteningly low level. A level, I might add, would not have been sustainable in Australia for a future home grown product. FG is a good car. It deserved to do better than it started at.

[OFDHZY]

There's another way you can look at this. I use this example because it is the one most relevant to this forum.
Compare the premium charged for a V8 engine in Australia to the premium charged for a V8 in most other parts of the world. Bar the US perhaps, the "penalty" for upgrading to a V8 is seriously frightening.
Yes, we might miss out on some of the finer points compared to other parts of the world, but we get extremely cheap V8's.
Would everyone be happier getting a flasher interior, but also a $15,000 upgrade cost to a V8, rather than a third of that we currently have???
:)
PS: The sales gap has narrowed because FG started at a frighteningly low level. A level, I might add, would not have been sustainable in Australia for a future home grown product. FG is a good car. It deserved to do better than it started at.

Your rite Davo... coming from Audi to Holden in order to drive a V8 was a very easy choice ... ssv $49k Audi V8 $150K+ :confused: ... the equipment levels we get for the Money spent is pretty fair i think... & will improve with each new release you want cutting edge gear then go pay the premium.. IMO in order for me to get real value from a Euro car you have to at least own it for bout 8yrs in order to get full value of intial cost price.. where as a Holden i could own for bout say 3-4 years turn it over and still be ahead...:)

[Uwish]

Your rite Davo... coming from Audi to Holden in order to drive a V8 was a very easy choice ... ssv $49k Audi V8 $150K+ :confused: ... the equipment levels we get for the Money spent is pretty fair i think... & will improve with each new release you want cutting edge gear then go pay the premium.. IMO in order for me to get real value from a Euro car you have to at least own it for bout 8yrs in order to get full value of intial cost price.. where as a Holden i could own for bout say 3-4 years turn it over and still be ahead...:)


Go to Europe and then compare them.
Euro is expensive in Oz, but back in Germany they are not that pricey unless you go for AMG / M / RS.

What is the price of a R8 in the UK compared to a V8 or SC 6 Audi?

[planetdavo]

Go to Europe and then compare them.
Euro is expensive in Oz, but back in Germany they are not that pricey unless you go for AMG / M / RS.

What is the price of a R8 in the UK compared to a V8 or SC 6 Audi?

We live in Australia.
Even in Europe, a V8 upgrade isn't near the upgrade price of an Australian V8 upgrade. Much of your "affordable" Euro product in their home market also come with either 4 cyl engines or baby 6 cyl engines. Look at how certain people slagged off Holden's decision to fit a 3.0 V6 here. Over there, you are more likely to get something around a massive 2.0 litres!
Comparing equivalent model costs of Euro vs Aus market European cars isn't really a subject for this thread. It has been debated to death in many other threads.

[Uwish]

We live in Australia.
Even in Europe, a V8 upgrade isn't near the upgrade price of an Australian V8 upgrade. Much of your "affordable" Euro product in their home market also come with either 4 cyl engines or baby 6 cyl engines. Look at how certain people slagged off Holden's decision to fit a 3.0 V6 here. Over there, you are more likely to get something around a massive 2.0 litres!
Comparing equivalent model costs of Euro vs Aus market European cars isn't really a subject for this thread. It has been debated to death in many other threads.

Davo,

The comonwhore is a tardy beast. 1800kgs or there abouts
Europes most popular cars are small to mid size.
Better build quality and more appointments. Seriously compare OZ with the US as that is our closest market in regards to what we like to drive and petrol prices.

We get f*cked over in price!
but that is our Government

[planetdavo]

Davo,

The comonwhore is a tardy beast. 1800kgs or there abouts
Europes most popular cars are small to mid size.
Better build quality and more appointments. Seriously compare OZ with the US as that is our closest market in regards to what we like to drive and petrol prices.

We get f*cked over in price!
but that is our Government

Seen the weights of Commodore sized Euro cars? :eek:
I don't dispute many of your points, but the fact remains that in Australia, we can get a V8 powered car for only a few thousand more than the 6 cyl version.
You cannot get close to that with Euro cars, even in their homeland. I simply added a point earlier that yes, quite a number of smaller, cheaper cars in Australia get a number of features the locals don't get, but in the overall picture, we do have some distinct benefits others can't come close to matching.
Depends on your priorities I guess, but we are in a market with 33 different brands to buy, if one option doesn't suit your tastes... :)

[FlatfootV8]

Seen the weights of Commodore sized Euro cars? :eek:
I don't dispute many of your points, but the fact remains that in Australia, we can get a V8 powered car for only a few thousand more than the 6 cyl version.
You cannot get close to that with Euro cars, even in their homeland. I simply added a point earlier that yes, quite a number of smaller, cheaper cars in Australia get a number of features the locals don't get, but in the overall picture, we do have some distinct benefits others can't come close to matching.
Depends on your priorities I guess, but we are in a market with 33 different brands to buy, if one option doesn't suit your tastes... :)

Just some examples
Audi A8 V8 1810kg's
BMW 740i 1860kg's.

Only as examples but mainly because they are Aluminium for most of their panels which is more expensive than the usual steel that is used in Falcons and Commodores.

European cars are great but brand snobbery is just an arse.
:1peek:

[planetdavo]

Just some examples
Audi A8 V8 1810kg's
BMW 740i 1860kg's.

Only as examples but mainly because they are Aluminium for most of their panels which is more expensive than the usual steel that is used in Falcons and Commodores.

European cars are great but brand snobbery is just an arse.
:1peek:

That's two specially handpicked examples from dozens of possibilities...at, ummm, 3 or 4 times the price of a Calais...:eek:

[Party Pete]

This debate will rage forever I am sure and both arguments have merit but the fact is that Commodore sales have dropped from about 75,000 a few years ago to about 45,000 now. This thread is about what people think should be changed for the next model to address this. The number cars sold in Australia is higher now than it was then something must be appealing the people who once bought the Commodore. I think it is that the interior of the VE is not up to scratch, the pricing has increased steadily and the opposition has got steadily better. Holden just needs to sharpen up, not because anyone is at risk of buying one as an alternative to a new E500 Merc, but because they are buying cars priced similarly to the Commodore which offer more for less. V8's are nice but the whole package must be up to scratch or people will re-evaluate their needs.

[falcom]

Caradvice have pictures which they claim are of the VF Commodore.

Looks like a VE with a Car Bra to me.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/50034/busted-holden-vf-commodore-spy-photos/

[iloveholden]

Caradvice have pictures which they claim are of the VF Commodore.

Looks like a VE with a Car Bra to me.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/50034/busted-holden-vf-commodore-spy-photos/

Yeah got to agree there....pretty sure i've seen these photo's elsewhere on here.

[Tubbie]

when i first saw the pics i thought the same that is just a ve with a car bra but ive heard isnt goin to be that different anyway just front and rear bars changed with the main changes being inside like mentioned in the link.

[Aus8]

Hopefully a nice new interior on the cards also. While ageing better than past models is looking rather tired inside now.

[Party Pete]

In my view it was never a very nice interior and this is the reason I have never bought one. It isn't really the basic design, it is the poor quality of the materials used. If they fix this then I may be in the market for one yet.

[zacaxel1975]

Does anyone have any inside rumours or know when we might see the next model/update?
I am going to purchase a Calais V wagon in the next month but would be happy to wait if a new model is just around the corner.

[rgmast]

Does anyone have any inside rumours or know when we might see the next model/update?
I am going to purchase a Calais V wagon in the next month but would be happy to wait if a new model is just around the corner.

It should be release later this year.

Updates on the outside are very subtle similar to VT-VX and VY-VZ
Inside the electronics get a major upgrade as well as the radio

This was told to me by an employee at Holdens Elizabeth

[zacaxel1975]

It should be release later this year.

Updates on the outside are very subtle similar to VT-VX and VY-VZ
Inside the electronics get a major upgrade as well as the radio

This was told to me by an employee at Holdens Elizabeth

Thanks for the info rgmast. The radio is a major thing for me, I took a G6ET for a test drive and while a nice car I need a wagon (kids and their stuff) and want a V8. The ipod integration (through the steering wheel controlls) is good and safer than looking down to do it on the ipod and the higher up screen also just seemed more right.

I would be happy to wait for a June/July release but if it is going to be Sept/Oct I would have to think hard about just getting one now.

[vicarious]

heard today from a bloke at work whos daughter works at the plant, not much will change outside, it will be interior changes

[zacaxel1975]

heard today from a bloke at work whos daughter works at the plant, not much will change outside, it will be interior changes

Thanks vicarious, any indication on timing?
I like the outside, its the radio, satnav human interface thingy that needs an update.

[VESS-VWagon]

Any news on E3 series HSVs? I'm holding off on an E2 Senator in case there is a marked improvement in the interior and exterior of the E3. I think it's going to be a long few months waiting to find out.

[vicarious]

Thanks vicarious, any indication on timing?
I like the outside, its the radio, satnav human interface thingy that needs an update.

not sure i will ask, apparently at easter the line was reworked for the cruze & will be started building shortly(cruze that is)

[zacaxel1975]

not sure i will ask

Thanks mate.

[Plenty]

heard today from a bloke at work whos daughter works at the plant, not much will change outside, it will be interior changes

No offence but unless she is actually involved in design she wouldn't have a clue. But it is the general consensus among followers.

[Rick]

And the dangerous A pillar will be slimmed down.

[mmciau]

And the dangerous A pillar will be slimmed down.

I'd suggest to you that the 'dangerous A Pillar' is not dangerous - awkward perhaps but not dangerous.

It needs 'more attention" but it is not dangerous.


Mike

[macca_779]

I'd suggest to you that the 'dangerous A Pillar' is not dangerous - awkward perhaps but not dangerous.

It needs 'more attention" but it is not dangerous.


Mike

How about stupidly big.. That's an accurate description.

[theblueweapon]

Any news on E3 series HSVs? I'm holding off on an E2 Senator in case there is a marked improvement in the interior and exterior of the E3. I think it's going to be a long few months waiting to find out.

Just wait for the E5. Should have a few improvements over the E4 that supercedes the E3.

[SUPERH2377]

the radio - information screen will be touch pad like the I PHONE and will be made by siemens which owns continal tyers . they had a press relese about a month ago

[steve_t]

the radio - information screen will be touch pad like the I PHONE and will be made by siemens which owns continal tyers . they had a press relese about a month ago

Have u got a link to the press release?

[vicarious]

No offence but unless she is actually involved in design she wouldn't have a clue. But it is the general consensus among followers.

she was involved with putting one together, so she has seen it:)

[moconn20]

Just wait for the E5. Should have a few improvements over the E4 that supercedes the E3.

Get with the times, the F1 will top them all.

[SCiFiRE]

Have u got a link to the press release?

not the press release, but the news article
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/large-passenger/holden/commodore/commodore-gets-touch-screen-18493

[steve_t]

not the press release, but the news article
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/large-passenger/holden/commodore/commodore-gets-touch-screen-18493

Cheers :goodjob: September eh?

[Party Pete]

So, any comment from your sister in law on whether the whole interior gets a make-over or is it just a matter of slotting in the new touch screen interface?

[Ellistwo]

I heard on the grapevine that the VF will release on September 14th ish to coincide with Ford Oz 50th anniversary. Any truth to the rumour mill?

[Marcus G]

Would love to see a Coupe 60 esque coupe added in. That thing was sex on wheels. Would love to see something similar on the roads!

[Rick]

Am I deluded in thinking that Holden could add Deadlocking to the VF??

[Party Pete]

I ask foolishly, why? Is there a security benefit? No other car that I am aware of has it.

[Deco28]

I heard on the grapevine that the VF will release on September 14th ish to coincide with Ford Oz 50th anniversary. Any truth to the rumour mill?

That would be hilarious.

[WOT]

Been in both a VE SS and a VZ SSZ and the VZ interior looks and feels much better imo. The VF interior needs a big update in terms of quality to even bring it up to scratch with the last of the VZ's. Im looking to pickup a VZ instead of VE for this very reason.

You VZ lovers crack me up. You do realise the dash is GLUED into the car, on top of a stumpy half firewall. VE has a full firewall and a frickin' steel beam through the middle of the dash. Partly explains why a VZ feels like a piece of wet cardboard after driving a VE. :hide:

[macca_779]

I ask foolishly, why? Is there a security benefit? No other car that I am aware of has it.

Ahh My VT has it.

[VZ_V8]

You VZ lovers crack me up. You do realise the dash is GLUED into the car, on top of a stumpy half firewall. VE has a full firewall and a frickin' steel beam through the middle of the dash. Partly explains why a VZ feels like a piece of wet cardboard after driving a VE. :hide:

I much prefer my thunder's interior to my dads SSV ute. Funny thing is he likes mine a lot more than his as well.

[Party Pete]

Ahh My VT has it.

Indeed it does as did my VT and in fact so do the later models including my Monaro. But, no other cars I have come across have it so my question remains, is there any actual security advantage to it? Not trying to be difficult, but while I am pushing the lock button for a second time to deadlock it I do wonder why the car just doesn't secure itself fully on the first push?

[PaulM]

Indeed it does as did my VT and in fact so do the later models including my Monaro. But, no other cars I have come across have it so my question remains, is there any actual security advantage to it? Not trying to be difficult, but while I am pushing the lock button for a second time to deadlock it I do wonder why the car just doesn't secure itself fully on the first push?

I'm pretty sure deadlocking makes the doors lock on both sides so they can't be opened.

So if a thief were to smash your window and use the door handle to open the door, it would normally unlock.

Whereas with deadlocking, if you smash the window, the door handle won't open the door.

It requires a second push so stupid people don't accidentally lock kids in there or something like that.

[DanV]

I much prefer my thunder's interior to my dads SSV ute. Funny thing is he likes mine a lot more than his as well.

Can't really say a agree with that. Having owned both a thunder and now a VE Maloo I would have to say the VE is much better not only in appearance but it feels alot more solid.

[Rick]

I'm pretty sure deadlocking makes the doors lock on both sides so they can't be opened.

So if a thief were to smash your window and use the door handle to open the door, it would normally unlock.

Whereas with deadlocking, if you smash the window, the door handle won't open the door.

It requires a second push so stupid people don't accidentally lock kids in there or something like that.

Exactly. Without deadlocking the car is unable to be properly secured against intrusion. I can't bring myself to check out the other Australian manufacturers' sites, but I know our Golf GTI MkV has it and I feel better about leaving the sunroff open a crack on a hot day.

Rick

[Party Pete]

I have to say that I haven't looked at every car, or even near, but I do know that BMW and Mercedes don't have any manually operated deadlocking so it is either considered to not be worth the effort or it deadlocks with a single push of the button without any owner intervention. Either way, no-one seems to talk about deadlocking on cars other than Holden which simply makes me wonder why.

I have to say, I agree that the interior on the VE is a step backwards on the VZ, or the Monaro in my case, which is why I have never bought one. It isn't the design as such or whether it is actually better built underneath, it is that every material and surface in the car is obviously cheaper than the older model. That plastic on the tops of the doors and the dashboard is not even suitable for $12,000 Chinese cheapie, the leather on the upper models is the best imitation vinyl I have ever seen and every switch and button feels like it belongs on a kids electronics kit not a car starting at a base price of $40,000. Based in the interior, the Commodore doesn't justify a $20,000 price tag let alone a $40,000 one, or $60,000 for a Calais. The pity is, it is a great design which drives and handles beautifully and still looks fresh to me. But you spend a lot more time stuck inside the thing looking at the bargain basement interior than you do standing outside looking at it or driving it hard on a good road.

[Mungus]

Wow this thread takes some time to get through, but some good points holden should pay attention to. Agree some of the interior plastic is a little cheap. My 2010 SSV sporty has some they need to change; flimsy glove box, centre console, parts of lower dash below instrument cluster. Don't care too much about the plastic spare wheel well, but some sound deadening from factory woudn't go astray. The whole car needs it (and will get it eventually) Good thing about cars - you can turn them into something you love! Cruise control on steering wheel would be nicer. Anyway won't carry on, but;
Any chance of a SIDI V8? If it's that good in V6 why not?
PS. When this thread gets closed can we get a summary posted (maybe to Holden)?

[Party Pete]

I come across as a little harsh on the VE but it is something I feel strongly about because the car would be great if they finished off the interior right. I know I'm not alone because in my own little circle of friends that have recently bought cars I know of two who considered the Commodore and rejected it primarily on the low rent interior. I still think it is a major part of the much reduced sales volume they have had since the VE came out.

[sixlta]

Can't really say a agree with that. Having owned both a thunder and now a VE Maloo I would have to say the VE is much better not only in appearance but it feels alot more solid.


Ill second that, i have had vz thunder and vz ssz, both dont come close to the ve ss-v ute, in drive looks and build

[Deco28]

Wow this thread takes some time to get through, but some good points holden should pay attention to. Agree some of the interior plastic is a little cheap. My 2010 SSV sporty has some they need to change; flimsy glove box, centre console, parts of lower dash below instrument cluster. Don't care too much about the plastic spare wheel well, but some sound deadening from factory woudn't go astray. The whole car needs it (and will get it eventually) Good thing about cars - you can turn them into something you love! Cruise control on steering wheel would be nicer. Anyway won't carry on, but;
Any chance of a SIDI V8? If it's that good in V6 why not?
PS. When this thread gets closed can we get a summary posted (maybe to Holden)?

SIDI V8. Oh how we wish.

Apparently GM is developing it for the Corvette in 2011, so maybe Commodore by 2012?

[Big_Valven]

More like Commodore by 2020. Look how long it took them to get a fuel efficient V6 into the lineup.

[Marco]

To be fair, the SIDI V6 was in the Commodore only a year or so after it first appeared in the US, so that's not too bad a lead time. Given the V8 is made in the one place for all GM applications (as opposed to updating the V6 assembly plant here), you'd think a direct injected V8 could appear in the Commodore pretty soon after it makes its debut in a US product.

[Deco28]

2007 I think the SIDI V6 came out in Cadillacs.

[Deco28]

In the engine department, I know two other engines which should be intergrated into the line-up over the next 1-3 years.

With the VF update this year:

2.9L V6 turbo diesel (~180kw, ~550NM)- It has been developed by GM for Cadillac, but was shelved even though testing was completed.

Over the next few years:

2.0l I4 DI turbo (190kw, 350NM) - Cracker of an engine dubbed LNF which is utilised by former niche vehicles in dead brands Pontiac and Saturn.

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f24/amazing-ecotec-2-0l-turbo-lnf-engine-3721/

This engine has more power, utilises the same technologies as Fords 'Ecoboost' 2.0l set to be in theFalcon in 2011.

Why not beat them to the punch, or at least come to the party with them.

As much as I hate it, the saying, 'there is no replacement for displacement' doesn't ring true anymore.

[steve_t]

As much as I hate it, the saying, 'there is no replacement for displacement' doesn't ring true anymore.

U take that back! :bawl: :1peek:

[SINISTER R8]

In the engine department, I know two other engines which should be intergrated into the line-up over the next 1-3 years.

With the VF update this year:

2.9L V6 turbo diesel (~180kw, ~550NM)- It has been developed by GM for Cadillac, but was shelved even though testing was completed.

Over the next few years:

2.0l I4 DI turbo (190kw, 350NM) - Cracker of an engine dubbed LNF which is utilised by former niche vehicles in dead brands Pontiac and Saturn.

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f24/amazing-ecotec-2-0l-turbo-lnf-engine-3721/

This engine has more power, utilises the same technologies as Fords 'Ecoboost' 2.0l set to be in theFalcon in 2011.

Why not beat them to the punch, or at least come to the party with them.

As much as I hate it, the saying, 'there is no replacement for displacement' doesn't ring true anymore.

i couldnt see and i would hate for Holden to put another 4 cylinder into a commodore. didnt work the first time, wont work this time. and given the car will most likely weigh 1.6 odd tonnes, i cant see them doing it. just like i dont think it will take off in the falcon

[csv rulz]

i couldnt see and i would hate for Holden to put another 4 cylinder into a commodore. didnt work the first time, wont work this time. and given the car will most likely weigh 1.6 odd tonnes, i cant see them doing it. just like i dont think it will take off in the falcon

Last time it didnt have the tech or turbo, those kw & nm figures are better than what the current 3L V6 puts out, and better than the old 3.6L V6. Stop living in the past.

I personally think a diesel is the go, specially in the higher end models like calais v. It would than be a cheaper option to bmw 5 series

[Deco28]

And diesel has been shot down =[.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010/large-passenger/holden/commodore/commodore-diesel-back-on-the-agenda-19090

Refer to last sentence in italics =[.

[Wezza]

i couldnt see and i would hate for Holden to put another 4 cylinder into a commodore. didnt work the first time, wont work this time. and given the car will most likely weigh 1.6 odd tonnes, i cant see them doing it. just like i dont think it will take off in the falcon

Have you ever driven some of the latest gen diesels?

[Plenty]

I come across as a little harsh on the VE but it is something I feel strongly about because the car would be great if they finished off the interior right. I know I'm not alone because in my own little circle of friends that have recently bought cars I know of two who considered the Commodore and rejected it primarily on the low rent interior. I still think it is a major part of the much reduced sales volume they have had since the VE came out.

The VE is so superior in terms of interior fit and finsish to the previous models it's just not even worth comparing.
Actually makes me wonder if you've ever been in one.
And sales has nothing to do with perceived quality in the Holden it all to do with astronomical fuel prices and the hype surrounding them.

[Rick]

The VE is so superior in terms of interior fit and finsish to the previous models it's just not even worth comparing.
Actually makes me wonder if you've ever been in one.
And sales has nothing to do with perceived quality in the Holden it all to do with astronomical fuel prices and the hype surrounding them.

Sorry mate have to disagree 100%.

The low-rent, mono-colour (coffin lining) interior on the SS/SSV in particular is an absolute turn off, has been widely criticised in this thread and in car magazines and we now believe that Holden are addressing it.

Yes we have one (SSV wagon), over 22,000 kms now. In the rear in particular, at night if you open the door it is hard to see inside at all, it looks like the light has not even come on.

Why they could not have made the cream coloured leather an option on SS/SSV is absolutely beyond me. And yes I tried. At the Melb motor Show, pre-release, it was "yes no problems". Then at each dealer it was "absolutely no way".

Cheers,

Rick

[csv rulz]

do not know about the interior quality as i dont own a ve, but it looks so bland and boring its not funny, specially with the dark gray dash on the higher end models. The quality may not be as good but the interior on my VY sure as hell is a lot more appealing in the looks department

[1R8_HSV]

do not know about the interior quality as i dont own a ve, but it looks so bland and boring its not funny, specially with the dark gray dash on the higher end models. The quality may not be as good but the interior on my VY sure as hell is a lot more appealing in the looks department

i own a ve hsv and although i dont think the interior's bland, the quality of it is pretty shit. the top of my handbrake comes straight off, the glove box doesn't like closing and when it does, it still feels like a kids toy.
i am having a leather interior done next month, but the fabric seats that come stock are subpar imo. mine is '06, i think in '08 (when the ls3 came in) they put some nicer fabric in but that's it.

[steves87]

Indeed it does as did my VT and in fact so do the later models including my Monaro. But, no other cars I have come across have it so my question remains, is there any actual security advantage to it? Not trying to be difficult, but while I am pushing the lock button for a second time to deadlock it I do wonder why the car just doesn't secure itself fully on the first push?

Mazda6 and mazda3 have deadlocking (at least the 07 models did)

[GRC888]

Having owned various VT, VY, VZ & 3 VE's IMO, VE is far superior in both design, ergonomics and build quality. Whilst some plastics are hard and later designs including Ford FG range have surpassed VE, it must be remembered that upon release, Wheels mag rated VE interior design highly likening it to a cut price Audi. I also recall door trim design was superior to BMW 5 Series. Yes, VE interior is overdue for a major upgrade but I remain very happy with my new SSV G8 Sportwagon. Improved out of sight in terms of build quality and refinement compared to my '06 Calais V V8.

[Party Pete]

The VE is so superior in terms of interior fit and finsish to the previous models it's just not even worth comparing.
Actually makes me wonder if you've ever been in one.
And sales has nothing to do with perceived quality in the Holden it all to do with astronomical fuel prices and the hype surrounding them.

I'm afraid that I beg to differ on both counts. If you actually have a look at the stuff you touch and feel, the interior of the VE is at least 1 if not 2 steps behind the VZ. Sorry, but I was a ready as anyone to love the VE but I couldn't get over the feeling that I moving backwards in some ways. Holden cheapened the car to suit the US and shafted us in the process. In terms of sales, it is very easy to look at a lackluster product and blame some external factor for not selling as well as expected but maybe that is just making excuses. The reality is that the quality of the competition has got better and the VE went backwards. Remember, I am not talking about the quality of the engineering underneath, which is excellent and probably the best available for the money, but that is a waste of time when the stuff you look at each day is cheap and nasty.

For the record, I have spent many hours in VE's and tried very hard to buy them several times over the last 3 years. But at the end of the day I felt the interior was a deal breaker on every occasion. And as I said, I am not alone. One guy at work I know got a new Calais every 18 months for many years. He had a VE for 12 months, sold it and bought a Mazda. His reason, despite how much he liked the car to drive the interior felt like he had traded down and the electronics broke down regularly. Another friend of mine wanted a family wagon and bought a top of the Subaru Liberty. Guess what, it was due to fuel economy or size, it was due to the simple reason that it felt a class above the Calais despite being cheaper. You can say I'm wrong, but that is two people I know who would have and should have bought a VE who haven't purely based on the cost cutting inside. Multiply that effect across a population and can you really say with any confidence that this is not a factor in the drop in sales?

[Party Pete]

Having owned various VT, VY, VZ & 3 VE's IMO, VE is far superior in both design, ergonomics and build quality. Whilst some plastics are hard and later designs including Ford FG range have surpassed VE, it must be remembered that upon release, Wheels mag rated VE interior design highly likening it to a cut price Audi. I also recall door trim design was superior to BMW 5 Series. Yes, VE interior is overdue for a major upgrade but I remain very happy with my new SSV G8 Sportwagon. Improved out of sight in terms of build quality and refinement compared to my '06 Calais V V8.

That statement in Wheels must have cost GM heaps. I read it before I got to see the VE and was so keen that the first thing I did upon getting back to Australia (I was in the US on holiday at the time and picked up the magazine in NZ on the way home) was take myself down to the local Holden dealer to check it out. The disappointment was incredible. Sorry, but Audi has some of the best of the interiors in the world and comparing the VE to them is like comparing a Macca's burger to meal at a Michelin star restaurant. I have spent plenty of time in both a BMW 5 series and a Calais and the comparison is completely invalid. The BMW might be dark and plain, but the materials are top notch. The Calais gives us fake suede and hard plastic in reasonable colours. I'll take the good materials any day. Again, you may disagree, but I have bought 4 of the VT based Holdens in a row, upgrading model and specs each time, and after almost 6 years with the last one, Holden has still not tempted me into a VE. Something must be wrong as it should have been a no brainer. I'm glad you like your SSV sportswagon and you won't get an negative comment from me on the design of the car, but for the money in my opinion Holden has completely let it down with the interior and they won't sell me one until it bought up to the standard of other cars selling for close to $60,000.

[Deco28]

The media and there 'materials'.

It has turned us all into to strokers.No-one can test a car without stroking the dash, is it soft, is it smooth or w/e.

Who really spends all their time stroking the dash of a car when they use it?

Fine make the buttons nice to touch(which the VE's are), but I'd worry more on looks and ergonomics then freaking soft materials....

[Party Pete]

It is not a question of stroking the dash, but the course checker patterned material they use on the tops of the doors and dash look cheap and mark very easy. Simple as that. Saying that isn't important is like saying that having good paint on the outside isn't important. Plus, the materials on the seats is very cheap and the carpets are some of the worst I have ever seen. And frankly I didn't think the switches felt particularly precise of nice to use. To me, all this adds up to the car feeling cheap and nasty which is fine if it is something that is cheap. However, the Commodore is an expensive car, especially when you move into the upper models that I am looking at, and for that money I want it to feel a bit special and upmarket. If you didn't you would be waiting for the new Chinese cars and saving the money. The VE doesn't have to be a Jaguar for the money, but it does have to at least be up to the standards of a Volkswagen or Honda.

[planetdavo]

I think it's become quite clear that some people have no real issues with VE interior quality, and some have massive issues with VE interior quality.
I've never known most people to agree on anything to do with cars. If VE had a Euro quality interior but Holden instead charged $20K for a V8 option like the Euro's often do, people would be complaining about the cost of the V8 option rather than the interior quality...

[moconn20]

... but the course checker patterned material they use on the tops of the doors and dash look cheap and mark very easy.

But its sensational at reducing glare into my eyes off the top of the dash on a sunny day, which was quite a problem with previous models once you cleaned the interior.

We get it party pants, you dont like the interior... you dont need to rebut everytime someone votes in favour of it.

[Party Pete]

I take the point. I wasn't trying to turn this into a anti-VE slanging match but probably have done so. My bad. Hopefully Holden is responding with the VF and we can all be happy and as a result, Holden can start making some much needed profit.

[COSMOS]

I've owned a VR Acclaim, VT Acclaim Wagon, VY II SS Sedan, VE Berlina, VE Calais and now this VE Calais V V8 and I think its the best interior design of the lot. That being said I am changing over at the end of the year and will be looking at something smaller like a Golf GTi. Hopefully there will be a quality jump.

[conchie]

Another friend of mine wanted a family wagon and bought a top of the Subaru Liberty. Guess what, it was due to fuel economy or size, it was due to the simple reason that it felt a class above the Calais despite being cheaper. You can say I'm wrong, but that is two people I know who would have and should have bought a VE who haven't purely based on the cost cutting inside. Multiply that effect across a population and can you really say with any confidence that this is not a factor in the drop in sales?

Ive just gone the other way, trading my 07 Liberty wagon for a 2010 SSV wagon. I based my decision on interior quality, exterior looks, car size and value for features. The SSV crapped on the Liberty from a great height even with its rubbish centre cluster and off white on light grey speedo & tacho.

[Marco]

The only real issue I have with the VE interior is that I'd like to see the soft touch plastics continue to the bottom half of the dash as well (or at least to the glovebox lid and the panel ahead of the driver's knees) and it would be good if they could do something about the handbrake lever like make it soft too or cover it with leather.

I for one appreciate that the dash plastics and the top of the doors don't try to look like they're leather-grained when they are clearly plastic!

I'm one of those people who are fussy about interiors, but that's because I think the interior should be a place you want to sit in as that's where you spend the most time. I get into some cars that are all dark colours and hard plastics everywhere (sit in any new $20-25k small car to see what I mean - Cruze is the one exception) and my reaction is usually "get me out of here"! A car interior shouldn't feel like it's been designed to be hosed out...

[White Rider]

I think the center stack and console of the VZ (i only have experience with calais) is very very flimsy compared to VE (SSV ute). The feel of it is very thin, the cup holder is broken and the VZ 2 calais ive seen have the storage area flap on the console broken, both had notchy power seats too. VE center stack feels quite alright, the console is a bit hollow tho.

I think where the VZ feels great is the door trim and door handles compared to VE.

[falcom]

I'm afraid that I beg to differ on both counts. If you actually have a look at the stuff you touch and feel, the interior of the VE is at least 1 if not 2 steps behind the VZ. Sorry, but I was a ready as anyone to love the VE but I couldn't get over the feeling that I moving backwards in some ways. Holden cheapened the car to suit the US and shafted us in the process. In terms of sales, it is very easy to look at a lackluster product and blame some external factor for not selling as well as expected but maybe that is just making excuses. The reality is that the quality of the competition has got better and the VE went backwards. Remember, I am not talking about the quality of the engineering underneath, which is excellent and probably the best available for the money, but that is a waste of time when the stuff you look at each day is cheap and nasty.

For the record, I have spent many hours in VE's and tried very hard to buy them several times over the last 3 years. But at the end of the day I felt the interior was a deal breaker on every occasion. And as I said, I am not alone. One guy at work I know got a new Calais every 18 months for many years. He had a VE for 12 months, sold it and bought a Mazda. His reason, despite how much he liked the car to drive the interior felt like he had traded down and the electronics broke down regularly. Another friend of mine wanted a family wagon and bought a top of the Subaru Liberty. Guess what, it was due to fuel economy or size, it was due to the simple reason that it felt a class above the Calais despite being cheaper. You can say I'm wrong, but that is two people I know who would have and should have bought a VE who haven't purely based on the cost cutting inside. Multiply that effect across a population and can you really say with any confidence that this is not a factor in the drop in sales?

I agree with you Party Pete.

Lets hope Holden fix this with VF with a proper interior upgrade.

[BECAUZ]

The interior is not inferior. I quite like it.
Although i would like an interior like this i doubt we'll see it in a commodore any time soon

http://theage.drive.com.au/photogallery/motor-news/mercedes/20100419-sp17.html

[GODSMACK]

The interior is not inferior. I quite like it.
Although i would like an interior like this i doubt we'll see it in a commodore any time soon

http://theage.drive.com.au/photogallery/motor-news/mercedes/20100419-sp17.html

That interior alone is worth more than a Commodore, so your assumption is correct...

[korrupt]

Holden to cut production of Commodore (http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-business/holden-to-cut-production-of-commodore-20100422-tf05.html)

Sounds like the new model is on the way. Would this mean panel changes are likely ? I don't think they dropped production between previous VE updates.

[Evman]

It's obviously going to be a significant upgrade if they're doing all they can to get rid of the current car. Interior changes are almost guaranteed. This will be the change likened to the VX to VY.

[Maccas]

to me that reads there will be a pretty big change in the car! and as stated hopefully a big upgrade within the car and only slight changes to the exterior, cause i could see HSV spending so much on doing the E2 if holden were going to change their next model so significantly

[Party Pete]

The timing for HSV is interesting really as surely they would have known about the coming change of model but they released the E2 only recently. Presumably that means that the E2 will be a pretty short model cycle.

Regarding costs of better quality plastics etc, it would be interesting to know what sort of cost differences we are talking about between producing something like the current Commodores and stuff like Volkswagen, Mazda etc. We assume it is really expensive because you pay such a premium here for the prestige brands, but then Skoda has nicely built interiors and they are a cheap alternative in Europe.

[Plenty]

hsv have just registered the name E3 so i would think this will be in line soon after the VF is released.

The things that do annoy me with the VE interior are the stupidly designed glove box, and the omission of things like Glove box light, netting on the rear map holders. no illumination in the rear seat windows buttons.
Where my boot lid liner as well.

[Ghia351]

The timing for HSV is interesting really as surely they would have known about the coming change of model but they released the E2 only recently. Presumably that means that the E2 will be a pretty short model cycle.

Regarding costs of better quality plastics etc, it would be interesting to know what sort of cost differences we are talking about between producing something like the current Commodores and stuff like Volkswagen, Mazda etc. We assume it is really expensive because you pay such a premium here for the prestige brands, but then Skoda has nicely built interiors and they are a cheap alternative in Europe.I think volume of production has a big bearing. The worldwide sales and production run of a VW Golf means they have more to spend on R&D and then more vehicles to amortise costs over. I think in 2007 they sold 300,000 Golfs in six months. Thats six times the Commodores sales annualised.

[Party Pete]

I realise that and apparently amortisation of R&D and tooling is the biggest single component of the cost of a new car. Indeed I have read on more than one occasion that the actual cost to manufacture per vehicle is actually pretty low compared to the final price you pay. So, my question is, given that you have already spent the money on the R&D and tooling for a nice new model like the VE, and you have to sell as many units as you can to amortise those up front fixed costs, how much extra does it actually cost per vehicle to use better plastics, carpets, leather, cloth etc in the car? Surely if spending an extra $1000 per car in materials increases sales by a decent margin, the extra volume would more than make up for the higher variable cost per vehicle. Of course, I don't have this information and I am pretty sure no-one on this forum does, but it would be interesting to know.

[Goggles]

wonder how much power the V8 VF will have, presuming it stays with the L98 motor?

[theVman]

Sounds like the new model isnt too far off by now. Suprised we havent seen any spy shots...

[planetdavo]

I realise that and apparently amortisation of R&D and tooling is the biggest single component of the cost of a new car. Indeed I have read on more than one occasion that the actual cost to manufacture per vehicle is actually pretty low compared to the final price you pay. So, my question is, given that you have already spent the money on the R&D and tooling for a nice new model like the VE, and you have to sell as many units as you can to amortise those up front fixed costs, how much extra does it actually cost per vehicle to use better plastics, carpets, leather, cloth etc in the car? Surely if spending an extra $1000 per car in materials increases sales by a decent margin, the extra volume would more than make up for the higher variable cost per vehicle. Of course, I don't have this information and I am pretty sure no-one on this forum does, but it would be interesting to know.

All manufacturers spend the least they can to achieve their targets.
Vokswagen certainly isn't immune to this. They released Golf 6 well before it was required, purely because Golf 5 took apparently 10 extra hours per car to build than the new model!
Design is cyclical. VE has what the industry call a "technical" finish on the dash, door trim uppers etc. Numerous other cars have had variants of this look too. Makes a change from across the board fake leather look most cars have. Some like it, some don't. Most just don't really care either way.
As said earlier though, it's massively better than most cars with fake leather look grain for windscreen reflections, so it's actually quite practical.
Anyway, we will know in a few months what direction Holden takes in this area.
Be prepared for a very good sat nav system in the update though...:hide:

[csv rulz]

All manufacturers spend the least they can to achieve their targets.
Vokswagen certainly isn't immune to this. They released Golf 6 well before it was required, purely because Golf 5 took apparently 10 extra hours per car to build than the new model!
Design is cyclical. VE has what the industry call a "technical" finish on the dash, door trim uppers etc. Numerous other cars have had variants of this look too. Makes a change from across the board fake leather look most cars have. Some like it, some don't. Most just don't really care either way.
As said earlier though, it's massively better than most cars with fake leather look grain for windscreen reflections, so it's actually quite practical.
Anyway, we will know in a few months what direction Holden takes in this area.
Be prepared for a very good sat nav system in the update though...:hide:

Iv heard that all models will have some form of touchscreen, similar to an iphon/ipad, dunno how true this is. I just think the look of the VE interiors looks boring compared to previouse models. My Vy SS has silver highlights all through it, which breaks the bland black up.

[747]

If Holden are smart they will trump the opposition with features people want such as

*Navigation system standard
*Reverse Camera Standard
*Diesel Engine Option (eg variant of DMAX V6 engine 2,958 cc)

You may not want the above but market research shows this is what the majority would love. Consider the new Kia 2.2 turbo-diesel puts out 145 kW of power and 436 Nm of torque in the new Sorento which weighs more than a Commodore yet gets astonishing performance with V8 torque and brilliant economy

Things like nav/reverse camera can be made standard for minimal cost through high volume purchasing (it's all Chinese remember)

REALITY is if Holden can't make the VF feature packed and a real fuel efficent option (I know it might not be everything to you) it wont have a chance of surviving as an Aussie built vehicle. Our volumes are so low that its almost impossible to make profits. The real risk is that Holden will just become a vehicle importer.

[moconn20]

hsv have just registered the name E3 so i would think this will be in line soon after the VF is released.


Why would they call it E3 if its based on a VF?

Obviously F-series of F1 arent suitable names, but itd be dumb to call it E3 implying it based on a superceded model.

[mjrandom]

If the VF is mostly interior changes with a few minor exterior touch ups then HSV may well continue the E2 exterior theme with the upgraded interior and differentiate the cars by calling them E3s. Remember the side vents behind the front wheels are supposed to represent an E, not so easy to make an F. Alternatively HSV may have registered E3 simply to stop another company creating an E3. For example the Kia E3 Emetic!

[SINISTER R8]

Why would they call it E3 if its based on a VF?

Obviously F-series of F1 arent suitable names, but itd be dumb to call it E3 implying it based on a superceded model.

Just thinking, maybe wont use 'F Series' as Ford has it for their trucks. And Formula 1 probablowns the rights to 'F1'. So my guess is they can't use either.

[bonners]

talking to a mate at Holden yesterday, he indicated a new commodore in the showroom in June and HSV's by the end of the year. His indication was it was more likely to be series number change (ie Series 2) than a 'VF' change. But he did say he still wasn't 100% about that bit

[moconn20]

Just thinking, maybe wont use 'F Series' as Ford has it for their trucks. And Formula 1 probablowns the rights to 'F1'. So my guess is they can't use either.

hence they arent suitable names

[zacaxel1975]

talking to a mate at Holden yesterday, he indicated a new commodore in the showroom in June and HSV's by the end of the year. His indication was it was more likely to be series number change (ie Series 2) than a 'VF' change. But he did say he still wasn't 100% about that bit

Cool, June would be great for me. September seems so far away....

[Mikey]

Just thinking, maybe wont use 'F Series' as Ford has it for their trucks. And Formula 1 probablowns the rights to 'F1'. So my guess is they can't use either.Holden had an "F series" amongst its roots as well.....48 215 (FX) FJ FE FC FB, although I know that they were not universally called the "F series" so I do take your point.

[moconn20]

Cool, June would be great for me. September seems so far away....

june wont happen. the hype of the new model in june would be quickly quashed by the hype for the new ford V8/ford's 50th anniversary in september.

It'll more likely come at the same time around september. and it wont be series 2

[Radster]

It sure looks like there's an update to the Commodore in the works, but according to GoAuto:


The move pre-empts the release of the updated Commodore sedan, wagon, ute and long-wheelbase range, which is expected to bring only minor updates and E85 ethanol capability.


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/5F6F64169C15AE8BCA25770D00252AC5

[MRLXSS]

When's the Sydney Motorshow? October? I reckon the release will be then!

[calaisrat]

Hsv could very well keep going with E3 + E4 and just take the car in its own direction.

They have already changed the bonnet, bumpers, guards and taillights so it is already quite a different car to the commodore visually.

If they want to they can change the headlights to another shape and essentailly have a very different car from the garden variety commodore.
We already know that the next commodore (VF, VE S2 or what ever its called) will retain the same doors and roof line as per previous updates so theres no reason HSV cant have a completley different front and back end and call it whatever they want.

[maRGas]

wish there was pics :(

[Radster]

Following on from my post drawing on info at GoAuto, Drive state the following:

The new model is unlikely to present any spectacular changes, though a freshened interior and minor exterior tweaks are expected.

Engines are likely to be tweaked for better economy and emissions, but there’s no word as yet on whether the long-rumoured diesel variant will also feature.

One of the big changes for the new model is Holden's introduction of its E85 models which are capable of running on a mixture ranging from 100 per cent petrol to a shandy of 85 per cent ethanol and 15 per cent petrol.

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/is-this-ve-end-20100423-tia0.html

Even though Drive refer to the imminent update as "VF" it seems the changes will - like MY10 and SIDI - focus on the mechanical aspects of the vehicle but go a bit further with a refreshed interior and minor external tweaks.

[planetdavo]

wish there was pics :(

Unfortunately these days, most major motoring mags are all part of the ACP stable, which always have a story at release time of any new major Aussie model, which basically gets repeated in both Wheels and Motor. They get these stories in advance of the monthly deadline by signing confidentiality agreements, valid until the release date of the new model.
Ever since this occured, "scoops" don't happen like they used to...

[Hietbrink]

Just received this picture email the other day. Kind of looks like an XR5 Turbo:


Moderators wont let me post links????

[theVman]

Bugger - be good to see the pic but I am guessing it wont be anything new.

A guy on the SC forum who works in the body shop noted the change will be known as an MY11 update which makes sense. Also noted there were no major changes externally that they were aware of.

[SCiFiRE]

ugh. wrong thread sorry

[Angelo_XLR8]

i spotted one outside work today, i got 2 pics and i saw the new console but he covered it before i could snap a pic. new aircon vents above cd player display are gross
the aircon vents are horrendous, i assume on the SS not the SSV
where the current minidisplay is for oil temp there are two large egg shaped air con vents

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs025.ash2/34615_464109428377_606903377_6312937_4933474_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs043.snc4/34520_464109193377_606903377_6312926_2588289_n.jpg

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

i spotted one outside work today, i got 2 pics and i saw the new console but he covered it before i could snap a pic. new aircon vents above cd player display are gross
the aircon vents are horrendous, i assume on the SS not the SSV
where the current minidisplay is for oil temp there are two large egg shaped air con vents

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs025.ash2/34615_464109428377_606903377_6312937_4933474_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs043.snc4/34520_464109193377_606903377_6312926_2588289_n.jpg

well it would be hard to tell them apart from the old one
from the out side anyway

[falcom]

Looking at this Drive article; http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/holden-product-onslaught-coming-20101019-16sb3.html

It suggests the VF Commodore may only be 12 months away or so.

This may explain why this years update was so small.

Does anybody have any more info on when the VF is due?

[steve_t]

Isn't there supposed to be an E4 before then too?

[vr5speedv6]

Sounds like the VF will be a real looker :

Mr Welburn – an unabashed fan of the Holden Design team – told GoAuto at the Geneva motor show last week that he visited Australia last month to check on progress of the latest projects underway at Holden’s design studio in Melbourne.

Asked if he saw the next Commodore, designated VF and due in 2014, he replied: “I did, and it’s the absolute right Commodore for that market.

“I feel very good about it. We will have to change subjects – I can’t stand still thinking about that car.” (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3AE8BE52FDEF693BCA25784D0016405A)

With all this talk of the demise of the falcon, maybe someone should post this over on the ford forums to cheer them up a little:rofl:

[jaykay]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 2014 :confused: looks like I may get an E3 until then

[falcom]

2014!!!!! Commodore sales are dropping as it is.

How are they going to sell them in 2012 and 2013?

[Plenty]

2014!!!!! Commodore sales are dropping as it is.

How are they going to sell them in 2012 and 2013?

With a continual refresh of the product like they have thus far.

[ssv402]

2014 works out perfectly for me, thank you holden :)

[macca_779]

Sounds like the VF will be a real looker :

Mr Welburn – an unabashed fan of the Holden Design team – told GoAuto at the Geneva motor show last week that he visited Australia last month to check on progress of the latest projects underway at Holden’s design studio in Melbourne.

Asked if he saw the next Commodore, designated VF and due in 2014, he replied: “I did, and it’s the absolute right Commodore for that market.

“I feel very good about it. We will have to change subjects – I can’t stand still thinking about that car.” (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3AE8BE52FDEF693BCA25784D0016405A)

With all this talk of the demise of the falcon, maybe someone should post this over on the ford forums to cheer them up a little:rofl:

What do you think he's going to say to the media.. It looks shit, I told them to start again because I hated it. Yeah nup.

[vr5speedv6]

What do you think he's going to say to the media.. It looks shit, I told them to start again because I hated it. Yeah nup.


Well he sounds like he got a boner over it, or was he just looking at kerry dick:rofl:

[iloveholden]

This might suit me. Keep my current S1 and then get the VF in 2014 which is around when i'll look to upgrade :)

[BECAUZ]

This might suit me. Keep my current S1 and then get the VF in 2014 which is around when i'll look to upgrade :)

Looks like i'll be in the same boat. Thats if the current one lasts. Handling is like a sack of shit lately

[Goggles]

2014 works out perfectly for me, thank you holden :)

and me too.

[falcom]

A bit more info here : http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/new-holden-vf-commodore-locked-in-20110310-1bphg.html

[EfiJy]

A bit more info here : http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/new-holden-vf-commodore-locked-in-20110310-1bphg.html

A lot of talk about nothing. Slow news day/week/month/year so far. :(

[SAMCRO]

2014..... All the technology that they are going to put it VF will be either very common as standard or outdated anyway :) so we might see a lot more features as standard, which would be good. As long as they don't fit another boat steering wheel :rofl::rofl: Make it look like a Beemer or audi flat bottom :goodjob::goodjob:

[bouka]

It's MY 2014 so it will be on sale Septemer/October 2013.

Will be stunner I reckon.

[185iboy]

I hope I like it, no doubt the HSV will be outrageous...If it has Auto windows up I'll be interested :jester:

[SAMCRO]

If it has Auto windows up I'll be interested :jester:
You reckon we are getting lazy??
:rofl::rofl:

[Bobman]

Hopefully they get rid of the Omega and Ford do the same with the XT.

Would be good if the door trims & hand brake are given a major overhaul too.

[mickeyVX350]

Hopefully they get rid of the Omega and Ford do the same with the XT.

Would be good if the door trims & hand brake are given a major overhaul too.

? please explain why?

[GEN4LS2]

Hopefully they get rid of the Omega and Ford do the same with the XT.

Would be good if the door trims & hand brake are given a major overhaul too.


agree with the hand bake overhaul, the ve hand brake looks hideous!

[Plenty]

agree with the hand bake overhaul, the ve hand brake looks hideous!

Looks pretty good when it's down though. very clever i thought, agreed looks shite whilst raised.

[G4RS_GM]

I don't get why so many people complain about the VE hand brake. Its down and out the way, just about the all the time. Unless you drive with the hand brake up or sleep in your car, when would it be an issue? Personally i don't see it as an issue in mine, and would rather see the VF go on a DIET! like 1600Kg max.

[Plenty]

would rather see the VF go on a DIET! like 1600Kg max.

100% agree
Problem with that is, it can only happen one of two ways.

1) reduce the dimensions of the car (defeats the purpose of the Commodore) or
2) use state of the art materials and processes to reduce individual weights of materials particularly steel. (think prices of BMW AUDI etc)

The weights fairly well on par with the same size Euros anyway albeit with less tech/gizmos

[burkey]

:burnout:
It's MY 2014 so it will be on sale Septemer/October 2013.

Just in time for a trade-in on my old 2008 model!!

:burnout:

[Monaro 327]

Found this on Go auto [goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/B5BF7DAAEB9426EFCA25785A00090547[/url]

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/B5BF7DAAEB9426EFCA25785A00090547

IF it look like the volt at the bottom of the page YUCK

[UTESRULE]

they would be digging there own grave with that :spew::spew:

[GEN4LS2]

I don't get why so many people complain about the VE hand brake. Its down and out the way, just about the all the time. Unless you drive with the hand brake up or sleep in your car, when would it be an issue? Personally i don't see it as an issue in mine, and would rather see the VF go on a DIET! like 1600Kg max.


im not complaining about the handbrake, i just think it looks terrible when its raised that is all.

[steve_t]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/B5BF7DAAEB9426EFCA25785A00090547

IF it look like the volt at the bottom of the page YUCK


they would be digging there own grave with that :spew::spew:

That would be a huge dilemma. Do you buy a disgusting Volt looking Commodore with RWD or do you buy a disgusting Taurus looking Falcon with FWD?? :confused::confused:

[Plenty]

That would be a huge dilemma. Do you buy a disgusting Volt looking Commodore with RWD or do you buy a disgusting Taurus looking Falcon with FWD?? :confused::confused:

They only said the side surfacing from the volt not the whole lot...very early yet. Give it a chance.

[steve_t]

They only said the side surfacing from the volt not the whole lot...very early yet. Give it a chance.

Yeah, Atomic Maloo R8 did say "IF"

[bouka]

Will be a real looker i reckon.

HSV's will move away from the over the top E2/E3 is my bet.