Would you replace timing chain if you were camming your LSX motor?

[TUFFIE]

Just after peoples thoughts and advice, if you were changing your cam would you replace your timing chain for piece of mind?

I would also like to know your reasoning as to why you would not.

[BLACK 346]

Yes, went Rollmaster DR for peace of mind :)
Very cheap peace of mind at that.

[TommyVTss]

no i wouldnt bother

tom

[LooneyR8]

Certainly would. Good insurance policy.

[RICECOOKER]

i put a double row in for piece of mind when i did my head and cam upgrade

[Rub]

Absolutely....

[Nidz]

Also if you post, be sure to include whether you've changed your own and also if you actually did your own cam swap and chain swap as well..

Many people will just say yes who are drive in, drive out people.. Just lay the cash down and let somebody else do it all.


I have been told that the swap of the chain isn't as easy as it sounds... I'm not a pro by any means. I'm about to go down the route or changing cam and I've decided after speaking to quite a number of professionals that I'm going to retain the standard timing chain.

[TUFFIE]

Also if you post, be sure to include whether you've changed your own and also if you actually did your own cam swap and chain swap as well..

Many people will just say yes who are drive in, drive out people.. Just lay the cash down and let somebody else do it all.


I have been told that the swap of the chain isn't as easy as it sounds... I'm not a pro by any means. I'm about to go down the route or changing cam and I've decided after speaking to quite a number of professionals that I'm going to retain the standard timing chain.

Hey start your own thread bud......:jester::teach::booty:

[JT]

How about some input into what's actually involved in changing it

[LooneyR8]

Hey start your own thread bud......:jester::teach::booty:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

On all my 289 Windsor motors and my 253 and 308 motors I have always replaced the timing chain when doing a cam.

I always feel a little better when I know that the new chain is in there.

When the new cam goes in the R8 I will have a new chain done as well.

Just my 2cents worth

[TUFFIE]

QUOTE=JT;1625919]How about some input into what's actually involved in changing it[/QUOTE]

:search: plenty out there.

[RARASV8]

yes, i would be changing the chain. as stated above for saftey reasons. the same as you change the thrust bearing, when you upgrade the clutch. better to do it once, than having to do it at a later time again.

Garry

p.s i have not done it to a LS motor but always when building my red 6's or my red 308

[SSV8TE]

Definantly change the timing chain. For what the dollars are worth it just doesnt make sense to not change it especially if it is second hand.
Cheers,
Andy.

[Rub]

From http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23


Optional: If you purchased a new oil pump and/or a new chain, you'll need to complete this step.
First, unbolt the 4 10mm bolts holding the oil pump to the engine block, making sure not to drop any into the oil pan.

Now we need to unbolt the oil pan to lower it some. It is held on by 8 or 10 bolts around the perimeter, some M8 and some M10 (10-12mm hex head bolts). You should be able to loosen them all enough just to get the pan to drop 1/2". It may need some prying to break it free at first.

Next, grab a 10mm wrench and unbolt the pickup tube bolt...it holds the pickup tube to the oil pump. Then once it's loose, unthread it and remove it with your fingers making sure not to drop the bolt into the oil pan. Now grab the pump with one hand and with your other hand or a screwdriver, push the pickup tube downwards into the oil pump to separate it from the pump. Once it's separated, pull the pump off the front of the engine crankshaft.

You can now remove your old timing chain if you need to. Place the new chain over the crank snout and let it droop down like before. Leave the oil pump off the car for now.


Optional: If you removed your oil pump in the previous step, you'll need to do this to reinstall it
Find your oil pump pickup tube O-ring, it may be brown or blue in color. It will either be inside the opening of your stock oil pump, or it'll still be on the snout of the pickup tube. If it was inside the oil pump, remove it and place it on the snout of the pickup tube...just seat it on there, don't force it down any more than it wants to go naturally.

If you bought a new oil pump, get it out now and place your old pump aside. Now, push the pickup tube downwards with one hand, and with the other, try to line up the gear on the oil pump with the gear on the crankshaft and push it on. Again, this may take a few minutes to get the gears all lined up. Once the pump slides on, rotate it a little and try to line up the snout so it'll slip into the oil pump nice and centered. If you try to insert it off center, you run the risk of chewing up the o-ring which will mean you have very little oil pressure and have to tear all this apart to get back in here to replace it. You don't want that, so make sure you insert the pickup tube nice and centered. It shouldn't take much force at all to push it in. Once it's in, apply Loctite® to the old pickup tube bolt and re-install it. The torque specs are about 9 lb/ft, so just tighten it with a small wrench so it's snug but don't go crazy on it, as it's a really small bolt and the threads will strip out with too much force.

Apply Loctite® to the 4 10mm oil pump bolts and reinstall them, torqueing them to 18 lb/ft.

Now, retighten up the oil pan bolts. The smaller bolts get torqued to 106 INCH lbs, or about 9 foot lbs, while the bigger bolts get torqued to 18 lb/ft. Note: You WILL break those smaller headed bolts if you go past the 9 lb/ft as specified.
End of optional section

[macca33]

I've done it - it is an inconvenience, although not hugely difficult. If you've got everything apart already, then climbing underneath, loosening the pan bolts and dropping the pan enough to get good access to the oil pump / pick-up, isn't onerous.

Why? To ensure that you can dial your cam in correctly, which ensures that the valve events are as they are supposed to be, which, in turn, ensures that you get the most out of your combo. The stronger twin-chain is also a safety guarantee.

Tufie, I'd strongly recommend an SLP oil pump, as it is already clearanced to suit a double-row chain and there is no need to use spacers, nor to clearance the timing cover.

cheers

[TommyVTss]

better chuck some forged pistons in with the new cam to,

where do you stop ?

more likely to break valve springs rather than timing chains,

[macca33]

Tommy, I recognise your point, but seeing as the front of the donk is already off and it isn't too much more to put a chain on, why wouldn't you? Remember, the LS1 chains are not as good as the LS2 / L98, etc and if you come across a cam that is ground wrong - it does happen - what then, just slop her in and say, 'That'll do?'

cheers

[TommyVTss]

Tommy, I recognise your point, but seeing as the front of the donk is already off and it isn't too much more to put a chain on, why wouldn't you? Remember, the LS1 chains are not as good as the LS2 / L98, etc and if you come across a cam that is ground wrong - it does happen - what then, just slop her in and say, 'That'll do?'

cheers

yeah point taken

tom

[VZMY06SS]

As stated by Macca, I would probably do the chain on an ls1, but I didn't do mine when I cammed my L76 as I was told that they are much stronger.

I guess it would also depend on the valve spring stiffness too, as these are what cause the pressure on the chain.

Steve

[Nidz]

As stated by Macca, I would probably do the chain on an ls1, but I didn't do mine when I cammed my L76 as I was told that they are much stronger.

I guess it would also depend on the valve spring stiffness too, as these are what cause the pressure on the chain.

Steve

That's interesting point. So would this consideration change between single or dual springs?

[VZMY06SS]

I am no expert, but I think that double springs are generally more 'heavy duty' than singles and have higher lift ratings than singles. I think that this would mean that they have a higher pressure.

Steve

[132OFT]

Changed to Rollmaster Double Row when we cammed my LS1. Also changed to Rollmaster DR when we changed the cam when we did the L98 conversion, and if I remember rightly, there wasn't much choice about that due to factors involved in running the L98 in the earlier cars. All done in a shop.

[Oztrack Tuning]

There is another thread Macca33 where this has already been discussed. There are numerous problems with DR chain sets in terms of fitting them, good luck to people who arent experienced shops in fitting them. If you see the customization that often has to happen and the associated problems if its not done well, people should be cautioned against installing DR Chain sets unless the engine is out of the car.

[Tre-Cool]

All my and my family's engines have allways had a double row chain, however it's not a simple case of swapping it over. there is some work required that isnt even mentioned in the instructions.

sometimes you have to relief some of the rear of the timing cover housing too.

[BIG Shaun]

Remember, the LS1 chains are not as good as the LS2 / L98, etc and if you come across a cam that is ground wrong - it does happen - what then, just slop her in and say, 'That'll do?'

cheers

just stay right away from CROW CAMS and that will pretty much eliminate any chance of your cam being ground wrong!

[Wonky]

I've read that the LS7 timing chain is apparently the same one used in the LS2 and is better than the L76/L98/LS3 chain and quite sufficient for a cam change unless you want the extra hassles involved with fitting a DR chain for extra safety.

Can someone please comment on the accuracy or otherwise of the statement "LS7 chain = LS2 chain and better than L76/L98/LS3 chains"? If correct then a new LS2 chain should be fine for my small cam upgrade.

[oncechased]

i replaced mine with double row roll master when i did my cam. The cover needs to be ground out in spots to clear with a stock pump, so it can be a slight in convenience.

I cant say i've heard of many ls engines dying over a timing chain snapping but i did'nt want to take a chance.

[Evman]

Rollmaster single row LS7 chain here. Big cams definitely justify doubles but a lot of cams can safely be spun by upgraded singles.

[macca_779]

Tuffie I and many others never bothered to change our chains. The reality is that they don't break in 99.9% of cases. Having said that though if I had my time again I would fit an LS2 chain simple because in most cases when you pull an LS1 apart you will find the chain has stretched. No way I would ever bother with a Double with the common issues of oil pump clearance and the not so spoken about issue of pickup line alingment if you space the pump out.

[duke5700]

In my new motor I went with a vernier double row, but I also have bought an oil pump to suit. The vernier option is good as all the adjustments are made via the top sprocket and allen key bolts. With my two piece timing cover, cam timing can be adjusted easily, or camshaft changed if I want to do some trial and error work(Of which I plan to do, stock LS1 cam versus my turbo cam comparison). All I have to do now is work on a decent available electic water pump which I can remote mount and I won't even have to drop coolant. The main reason i went double row is the amount of cam/springs/lifters/pushrod that I am running, well that and vernier doesn't come in single row.

[JT]

so are you getting a cam Tuffie?

[berroca]

yes for the minimal expense and peace of mind.

although i have heard the 6L chains are pretty strong!

[Oztrack Tuning]

I have a Cloyes Hexadjust single kit for sale cheap if anyone wants it. Better quality single chain kit with adjustment of advance/retard at top sprocket.

[HYMEY]

DR is a bit of work to fit right in terms of alignment and much easier out of the car

[EXCESSV]

DR in mine done
engine out and all the necessary clearances, etc made.
50,000km with the cam in and no problems :D

[markone2]

853 + track passes one Red SV8

H&C 326rwkw Combo
10.7 @ 125/6 mph says nothing wrong with single chain and stock oil pump ......goodjob:

I'll lay good $$$ a few folk never saw that one coming :)


.

[BLACKVE]

My engine man has built some V8 ute racing motors etc and never seen a single chain broken yet in a LS.

^^^^ agree above

[Oztrack Tuning]

Its no point going to a DR if doing it with the engine in the car results in half your oil pressure being available afterward. That is the bottom line.

[smokey777]

well i feel better now that i stuck with L98 chain & just better PSI springs in my cam change :bow: not that it wont happen just not to worry lol

[gts071]

Stock chain here, on the advice of the workshop.

[hRTHSV]

My engine man has built some V8 ute racing motors etc and never seen a single chain broken yet in a LS.

^^^^ agree above

There was a VE V8 brute that broke a chain this year racing. The driver was whingeing about how they aren't allowed to use double row chains even though they have no performance advantage. It was on the 7 telecast early in the season or maybe very late last year.

[Oztrack Tuning]

I have heard they remove the stock adjuster because of frequent problems with them. The reason they wouldn't let them use the double row as it might make it easier for some teams to cheat and spoil the efforts they have made to creat close racing.

[Wonky]

Email sent re chain you have for sale Steve.

[255-LS1]

I have a Cloyes Hexadjust single kit for sale cheap if anyone wants it. Better quality single chain kit with adjustment of advance/retard at top sprocket.

im interested in this. i want to get an adjustable kit do i can dial my cam in correclty to make sure its spot on but dont think i can be bothered or have the skills/knowledge to correctly install a doble row kit.

Does anyone know of any other single adjustable sets?

[VYSHSV8]

853 + track passes one Red SV8

H&C 326rwkw Combo
10.7 @ 125/6 mph says nothing wrong with single chain and stock oil pump ......goodjob:

I'll lay good $$$ a few folk never saw that one coming :)


.
Yeh I did Mark coz I have the same :), and only n8000k's ago put in valve springs:)

[RFBOOM]

Has anyone put a set of idler gears in to replace the chain setup for LS1? Looking through the Rocket catalog, can see alot for SBC but non explicitly for LS1 engine. Anyone done this before?

I'm looking to get valve springs done, and at same time timing chain, and thinking of idler gears (am aware they are more noisey) or DR.