Harrop True Tac going into the VE Calais-V

[CalaisRider]

Hi all

Through my motorsport stuff I have known my LSD was no longer working. Given this is the end of my 2nd LSD to date I mulled over and decided to go Harrop Tru Trac mechanical as being the 3rd lsd in 3 yers - hopefully better longevity going Tru Track....

All went well initially doing the change and fitting it up. But at days end despite replacing bearings it was obvious the main bearing was also kakked. The Palannery gear had completely snapped in two. On inspection of my old LSD it was obvious why almost everything was stuffed and some Lapping of the main 3.7 gears and crown still to be done to get it all sorted.


The below photos are reflective of what confonted me. Strange bit is that I was still running the strip, circuit, frequent skidpan days and motorkkana as I didn't realise anything major was wrong - the diff was quiet as a lamb and no undue noise whatsoever.

There is a price to pay for continually playing hard. Oh well, my fault, no-one to blame but me. Kent at Hi Torque is looking after the fixing side. I am running on a borrowed diff atm. The Harrop Tru Track will be all set and running next week sometime.



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THE BELLOW VIDEO IS PROBABLY PERT OF WHY I BREAK THINGS - BUT IT'S OH SO MUCH FUN!!! :)



Copycamera381.flv video by CalaisRider - Photobucket

[GHZ28]

Yep that is stuffed......lol

Garry

[CalaisRider]

Yep that is stuffed......lol

Garry

Ha, Ha, I'm running out of things to break Garry - hence just redoing the stuff I have destroyed previous. Blew the begeesus out of all four corner brakes last time you and me were on QR a coupla mths ago - man they were so close to melting metal it wasn't funny lol.. I should post some pics here of em, fawwwk that was extraudinary, even for me.

Poor ol VE Calais-V Luxo does see a torrid life by real world standards for a sleeper and wife's daily driver.

But I do enjoy the thrill and comeraderie that goes with it!

Across the past 3 yrs of modifying I've learned a few things along the way of VE and L98 as to what is good and what is not so good too. Hence very comfortable with it all now.

It ain't no show pony nor dyno queen thats for sure...

Pete

[DioXidE]

Awesome stuff pete!

The closest ive come to that is my old superchargered v6 vk... I was doing a big skid, heard a clunk and ripped the crownwheel to shreds...

[macca_779]

Pete Cudos to you buddy. You know and accept the risks of motorsport and still give it a crack anyway in a daily driver. The lessons you learn and pay for educate the rest of us to what these cars can really take. :goodjob:

[skidmarx]

Do it! My SS loves me again scince mine went in! Fantastic bit of gear, I'm certain you'll love it

[Tecca]

now that is how to break a diff!!!! your car sounds bloody nice too mate.

[CalaisRider]

now that is how to break a diff!!!! your car sounds bloody nice too mate.

:)

Thanks Tecca

The hot end of that 2.5 Stainless exhaust has hairline split and cracked all over the place up to and incuding the centre muffler. It's only held together by fixit welds over the cracks, but they appear quicker than I can plug em. Thats my 3rd Mr Muffler SS system. Gotta go 3" mild steel in 2010 when I can afford it.

Folk seem to say Di Fillipo Cats Back sounds good so I might suss that out with some ceramic coating of the hot end bits, I'm just not sure. Any advice as to what's best????

Pete

[Blown 454 AWD]

Best add for Mainlube I've ever seen.

Mr 2 body Fatigue has been at your diff (the cyclic application of the stress was in excess of the design value)

And yes, if you put Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P gear Oil SAE 75w140 in that diff before you bruised the gears that much the metal under the surface has given away and the damaged portion has fallen off then it wouldn't have to be changed.

Not so bad as you're going True Trac anyway :)

You'd want to look after the True Trac though

Every True Trac we've put Mainlube in (with the T56 on Mainlube as well) has run quite without clunks, makes it hard to blame the components :)

I'd be going a Harrop Cover with a diff magnet, that'll stop its farting in church. (you're 75% there, I've made Harrop Diff cover drain bung magnets as well)

Did someone say Mainlube Christmas sale's last week?

Cheers

Steve

[CalaisRider]

Best add for Mainlube I've ever seen.


Not so bad as you're going True Trac anyway :)

You'd want to look after the True Trac though


Cheers

Steve

:)

Nah Steve, I won't be looking after the Tru Trac, I will certainly be testing what its limits are and failure comparison ratio to the OE LSD - I have tested a few OE and broken same so I have real life data to compare.

No appologies, but if they are rated to 500 rwkw and espouse to be the panasea altenative then they need to be tough, as many a LS series is way beyond my power rating. I will know within the first six mths of use and provide feedback accordingly.

To me a 400 metre drag strip run is easy on my car, and is light hearted play time. No duration of punishment to worry about. Its the duration and time which cumulates in significant hammering and heat generation that breaks things. Run a car for two hours absolutely full bore across a day and its a whole nother ballgame - that's my world of fun.

I love the writeup of the warranty section of the Harrop Tru Trac pamphlet; as long as you drive it as a Miss Daisy and don't do Motorsport the warranty is valid, not much reasurance compared to what they claim to be. It does say that normal diff oils as per manufacturer specs is fine. Time will tell as I didn't get a response from my email to you on the matter!!!

Pete

[ve/ss]

:)



Folk seem to say Di Fillipo Cats Back sounds good so I might suss that out with some ceramic coating of the hot end bits, I'm just not sure. Any advice as to what's best????

Pete

The Manta 3" has a great sound and nicley finished.
Worth a listen if anyone has one in your state.

[Blown 454 AWD]

:)

I didn't get a response from my email to you on the matter!!!

Pete


Pete

Did you email me??

PM or email??

When? I didn't see it or I would've answered, my bad :(

Try again and let me know when and where you send it :)

Cheers

Steve

[CalaisRider]

Pete

Did you email me??

PM or email??

When? I didn't see it or I would've answered, my bad :(

Try again and let me know when and where you send it :)

Cheers

Steve


:)

It's not a prob Steve, I know you are busy.

I hooked into your site and contact details, then sent an E-MAIL message from my home outlook email on price, deliverability and best oils for my need.

At this stage I plan to continue the plethora of motorsports stuff in the luxo. But it will be interesting to see what a Holden LSD feels like compared to the Harrop Tru Trac product under extreme conditions and extended time periods (with little cool down time respite). As previously indicated its the length of time that the car is at max revs and power delivery that causes shitty heat issues at almost every point of the drive train and is especially the care runnung an auto. Over time, most big ticket components fail due to the massive forces applied for extended periods and resultant continual heat buildup.

Almost as big an ask as your ocean going race Boat, but has specialist mechamics and at minimum drains oils after each turnout (I got a good look at it at the Redcliffe/Brisbane event. As opposed to that I just leave mine till service intervals of 15k.

My email addy is jenni.chatman@bigpond.com which doesn't sounde too much like Pete - akka Calaisrider.


:)

[CalaisRider]

The Calais has two separate trans coolers outside the stock one that runs through the radiator. I have a biig engine oil cooler and dedicated fan lined up with Hi Torque to fitup in a fabulous draw of cool air - this will be done February 2010. The diff has no additional cool items whatsoever, so is always going to be the stress point and weak link imo.

My avtar pic is of the car at full throttle but literall going rearward - no thats not wind blown smoke sending forward of the car (t'was a totally windless day), its the car going backwards with 300rwkw trying to get traction.

Pete

[Blown 454 AWD]

The Calais has two separate trans coolers outside the stock one that runs through the radiator. I have a biig engine oil cooler and dedicated fan lined up with Hi Torque to fitup in a fabulous draw of cool air - this will be done February 2010. The diff has no additional cool items whatsoever, so is always going to be the stress point and weak link imo.

My avtar pic is of the car at full throttle but literall going rearward - no thats not wind blown smoke sending forward of the car (t'was a totally windless day), its the car going backwards with 300rwkw trying to get traction.

Pete

Pete

It appears you are a victim of my over enthusiastic Mail Washer, a beast that I can't do without however, can sometimes get friends and foes mixed up :)

Gotta love a challenge, here you go .....

I reckon if you do what I say you won't fuk this new True Trac you're putting in.

We need to go Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140, a Harrop diff cover to take the oil quantity to 3.5L and for cooling, magnet in the diff and one on the drain bung. (this is what I have)

Mainlube gives a 2 year money back satisfaction guarantee on our product, in this instance I'll go further, if you fuk the diff, I'll give you your money back for the oil :) (as you won't fuk the oil)

And I'll still supply at the Christmas sale price.

(sound like a dam good add for the Solid Boundary Gear Oil to me)

Cheers

Steve

[CalaisRider]

Pete

It appears you are a victim of my over enthusiastic Mail Washer, a beast that I can't do without however, can sometimes get friends and foes mixed up :)

Gotta love a challenge, here you go .....

I reckon if you do what I say you won't fuk this new True Trac you're putting in.

We need to go Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140, a Harrop diff cover to take the oil quantity to 3.5L and for cooling, magnet in the diff and one on the drain bung. (this is what I have)

Mainlube gives a 2 year money back satisfaction guarantee on our product, in this instance I'll go further, if you fuk the diff, I'll give you your money back for the oil :) (as you won't fuk the oil)

And I'll still supply at the Christmas sale price.

(sound like a dam good add for the Solid Boundary Gear Oil to me)

Cheers

Steve


Haaa, now ya talkin.

Love the humour and banter, shit happens; and a simple fact is that life is like that lol.

Steve I will give you a call or email soon. The diff is all fixed and ready to go. I will be dropping down to Hi Torque about 2pm this coming Friday for fitup and bit of a tune tweak.

I have myself and a coupla mates lined up for Willowbank Test and Tune the next day (Saturday evening). May as well see what this sucker does early up - or is there some "run-in" preoceedure I should do...? Hell, I put it on WB when the car was just off the showroom floor with a massive 200k on the clock three years ago :) :eyes:


"(sound like a dam good add for the Solid Boundary Gear Oil to me)" - (only if the diff survives Steve!! a year of CalaisRiding is a tough ask - I have blown 3 in 3 years)


Pete

[CalaisRider]

Steve

We should start a BOOK on who rekens the diff will Not see 18 mths with your products and the Harrop Tru Trac and those that rekken your products combined with the Harrop Tru Trac change rekken it will see the distance. :eyes::1peek::jester::eyes:

History indicates that the Luxo Daily Driver combined with the stock Holden product or even the HSV variant is soft and is easy to decay within one year or less of heavy metal driving !!!

Pete

[Blown 454 AWD]

Haaa, now ya talkin.

Love the humour and banter, shit happens; and a simple fact is that life is like that lol.

Steve I will give you a call or email soon. The diff is all fixed and ready to go. I will be dropping down to Hi Torque about 2pm this coming Friday for fitup and bit of a tune tweak.

I have myself and a coupla mates lined up for Willowbank Test and Tune the next day (Saturday evening). May as well see what this sucker does early up - or is there some "run-in" procedure I should do...? Hell, I put it on WB when the car was just off the showroom floor with a massive 200k on the clock three years ago :) :eyes:


"(sound like a dam good add for the Solid Boundary Gear Oil to me)" - (only if the diff survives Steve!! a year of CalaisRiding is a tough ask - I have blown 3 in 3 years)


Pete


With Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140 and high temp rare earth magnets run in is not a big issue.

I still require the new diff to be flushed at least once (for about 15 minutes which will remove any excessive high spots) )as if us humans have had our grubby hands in there, there will be silica and shit everywhere.

The magnets will remove any "bed in wear metals" so they won't circulate and instagate "3 Body Fatigue wear"

80% of wear is erosion through an existing wear mode not being addressed (this includes run in) and the metal that's made being forced by the oil flow across load bearing surfaces rupturing the oil film damaging the gear and bearing drive faces.

1 piece of metal make 10 more, make 100 more, makes 1000 more, make 100,000 more and so on until failure, you must not allow metal to circulate as it terminal.

I call it the beginning of the end :)

Just to add a little fun, we'll monitor this with Filtergram (free of charge) at 6 month intervals, Start by flushing, then over fill the diff with the Mainlube 154 by about 10mm (half way up the filler hole) run for 5 minutes (on the stands) and ease the filler and retrieve 80mil as it will flow out because of being slightly over full (I'll give you the test bottles with the oil)

This first test will be what we call a "bench mark" to prove where we started from. Next at 3 months, then every 6 months and I'll post the Filtergram results in this thread, this is what I do for a living, rescue machinery that fuks up.

We will be able to witch you mill the Solid Boundary down until its too small to protect the gears (this is when we see a small amount of metal start) then we flush and do it again.

So far, I have not seen a vehicle mill the Solid Boundary down enough for need of change, nor have I had a diff or T56 fail ever with this oil in. In fact, I haven't had anyone change the oil for a 2nd time in a T56 or diff :)

We use Solid Boundary in extreme applications where it doesn't matter how good your oil is, the machine pushes that hard that you can't hold a hydrodynamic film hence the drive faces touch. The Solid Boundary puts millions of small ball bearings across the drive faces stopping metal to metal contact.

This will be good for all to see (how to do it right)

Cheers

Steve

[CalaisRider]

:confused:

That sounds way complicated Steve.

Happy to be a Test Mule as I have done for many others across the past three years, but my being in Qld southeast may cause some complications to your reigime.

Would be good to see what the Mainlube products could do and/or contribute given the hard life of the VE Luxo.

Regards

Pete

[Blown 454 AWD]

:confused:

That sounds way complicated Steve.

Happy to be a Test Mule as I have done for many others across the past three years, but my being in Qld southeast may cause some complications to your regime.

Would be good to see what the Mainlube products could do and/or contribute given the hard life of the VE Luxo.

Regards

Pete


Not really a test mule Pete, been do-in this shit for years, far as I'm concerned its a done dinner, we just have to have all correct to win.

No rocket science with the procedures above either, 5 minutes every 6 months to gain a sample and mail it to me. Just ease the filler bung and let 80 mil flow into the small plastic jar I'll provide, that's it. (this is why I say over fill a little, so its easy to get samples)

This is how we get early warning of or if any shit is about to happen before it does.

Its called Proactive Predictive Maintenance, stuff manufactures dream of :)

Can't see an issue though, the Solid Boundary is tough shit.


You need 1. a True Trac and 2, a Harrop diff cover, I have the rest :)

Let me know as you get closer to putting lube in.

Cheers

Steve

[OMR346]

That sounds like a good challenge, Pete. I have seen how you drive the Calais, and i can vouch that you give it all its got (not that thats a bad thing ;)). If the Tru-Trac set up can hold up to it for the 18 months that you predicted (a few posts ago), then i reackon its doing well. It will be interesting to see how these tests go that Steve is talking about. I might have to look in to one of these diffs in the future for my SSZ.

[CalaisRider]

That sounds like a good challenge, Pete. I have seen how you drive the Calais, and i can vouch that you give it all its got (not that thats a bad thing ;)). If the Tru-Trac set up can hold up to it for the 18 months that you predicted (a few posts ago), then i reackon its doing well. It will be interesting to see how these tests go that Steve is talking about. I might have to look in to one of these diffs in the future for my SSZ.

:)

Yeh Steve finally won me over with his schweet talk and oils. Getting Kent at Hi Torque to line the oil and magnets up and get loaded into the diff prior to the fitup next Friday afternoon.

Ummm, was supposed to be done last friday but not all things go to plan lol. Oh well I have a borrowed diff in with 3.4s, at tad sluggish compared to the 3.7s and quite different responsiveness but its all okays just a different sensation to what I'm used to. At least the loaner has a LSD that works.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Not really a test mule Pete, been do-in this shit for years, far as I'm concerned its a done dinner, we just have to have all correct to win.

No rocket science with the procedures above either, 5 minutes every 6 months to gain a sample and mail it to me. Just ease the filler bung and let 80 mil flow into the small plastic jar I'll provide, that's it. (this is why I say over fill a little, so its easy to get samples)

This is how we get early warning of or if any shit is about to happen before it does.

Its called Proactive Predictive Maintenance, stuff manufactures dream of :)

Can't see an issue though, the Solid Boundary is tough shit.


You need 1. a True Trac and 2, a Harrop diff cover, I have the rest :)

Let me know as you get closer to putting lube in.

Cheers

Steve


They make a diff cover for a VE?

[Blown 454 AWD]

They make a diff cover for a VE?

Unfortunately it doesn't look like they have as of yet.

Cheers

Steve