Ford Coyote V8 nearly here

[Brett240]

specs look good, makes me think the VF might get a significant power hike to compensate

smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/fords-new-coyote-v8-set-to-bite-20091230-lj66.html

[Ellistwo]

You can the details from the Ford media site

e.g:

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/Small_Block.pdf

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2011_Mustang_GT_Specs.pdf

Sounds like a nice engine

[glavas]

yes hopefully this means holden/hsv will bring out forced induction. seeing as ford is going with blowers holden will no doubtably go with a turbo. erhh i hate turbos.

[V-Car]

Here is the 5.0 engine on a dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=fordvideo1#p/u/0/IwvLEx10KgE

[Red CV8 R]

WOW! That is an impressive engine! Good to see they sorted out the weight and it has very nice power for 5 litres too. I love the idea of a decent quad cam V8 motor. This and the I6 Turbo motor plus the better gearboxes Ford offer make it more then decent competition from the Ford camp.

[6_litre_man]

its definetly a step forward for ford, a step they have needed to take for a few years IMO. Will be interesting to see what holden and HSV do to combat these new engines ffered by ford.

[Pickles]

5 litres, naturally aspirated,......300KW......it's gonna be working a lot harder than the LS3 to get that.
I say there's no substitute for cubic inches, or, if you like, there's no replacement for displacement.
I say that this engine, even if it has got 300KW, will still leave the 6.2 litre LS3 with the upper hand.....and, as we all know, HSV have plenty more stuff to choose from in the GM "toyshop",....... if they think they need it.
So, NO, I don't think HSV will be "quaking in their shoes" just yet.
Cheers, Pickles.

[glavas]

307kW in its basic form. sounds like it has room for improving. look at the ls1 220kw in its basic form on the vt and well we all no it had plenty more room to move.

i agree pickles but look at all those euro companies with small v8 engines that produce plenty of grunt. i think it was a ferrari that had a 4.8 litre v8 with 400kw.

[macca_779]

5 litres, naturally aspirated,......300KW......it's gonna be working a lot harder than the LS3 to get that.
I say there's no substitute for cubic inches, or, if you like, there's no replacement for displacement.
I say that this engine, even if it has got 300KW, will still leave the 6.2 litre LS3 with the upper hand.....and, as we all know, HSV have plenty more stuff to choose from in the GM "toyshop",....... if they think they need it.
So, NO, I don't think HSV will be "quaking in their shoes" just yet.
Cheers, Pickles.

Not really that hard to imagine. Look at the ls3 heads. They're great and all but compare them to the boss and they're a joke the coyote is an evolution in a big way.

[F6 Hoon]

5 litres, naturally aspirated,......300KW......it's gonna be working a lot harder than the LS3 to get that.
I say there's no substitute for cubic inches, or, if you like, there's no replacement for displacement.
I say that this engine, even if it has got 300KW, will still leave the 6.2 litre LS3 with the upper hand.....and, as we all know, HSV have plenty more stuff to choose from in the GM "toyshop",....... if they think they need it.
So, NO, I don't think HSV will be "quaking in their shoes" just yet.
Cheers, Pickles.

I guess that will depend on the weight of the next Falcon. Good to see Ford being smart to develop a smaller capacity engine using technology to make power and torque rather than cubes. I wonder how long it will take Government Motors to realize the politics demands that auto manufacturers get their act together and make smaller, more efficient motors (which still produce good hp/tq). No wonder GM got itself in the pooh.....
Bring on the S/C 5.0 I say :)

[lowriding]

Ok no surprise to see the usual suspects here talking it up as god's gift but what do you think it will really be like ? To be honest I would be *extremely* surprised if a 5L will get better power, economy and drivability in a similar package than the bigger cubed LSx series in any real world .

[Jarhead]

5 litres, naturally aspirated,......300KW......it's gonna be working a lot harder than the LS3 to get that.
I say there's no substitute for cubic inches, or, if you like, there's no replacement for displacement.
I say that this engine, even if it has got 300KW, will still leave the 6.2 litre LS3 with the upper hand.....and, as we all know, HSV have plenty more stuff to choose from in the GM "toyshop",....... if they think they need it.
So, NO, I don't think HSV will be "quaking in their shoes" just yet.
Cheers, Pickles.

That's one school of thought. Another is to make smaller, technologically better and more fuel efficient engines.

I liken the first way - bigger is better - to be very old school American way of doing things. I think the Yanks have figured out they need to move with the times. If this new engine gives away 1.3l and makes comparable power/torque then I think we have seen an evolution in muscle car power plants. I, for one, hope it kicks arse!

[Excellent]

That's one school of thought. Another is to make smaller, technologically better and more fuel efficient engines.

I liken the first way - bigger is better - to be very old school American way of doing things. I think the Yanks have figured out they need to move with the times. If this new engine gives away 1.3l and makes comparable power/torque then I think we have seen an evolution in muscle car power plants. I, for one, hope it kicks arse!

They were saying the same thing when the 5.4L Boss came out. Guess what, the Boss was good compared to the LS1 in factory trim but a POS compared to the LS1 for the racers. Anyway, I always thought the LS engines were more fuel efficient than the Boss? :confused:

The 5.0L V8 looks good on paper but so does the current Boss. Not much difference in power/torque between the old Ford and new Ford V8s I notice. The new V8 just seems to make power at higher rpms. That's not necessarily good.

Has Ford made a huge step sideways? We'll soon find out.

[lowriding]

A big step sideways is how i feel it will be too .Will make a good paper argument for the nerds and trainspotters but i personally wish FoMoCo had just followed GM and produced a wicked, lightweight ,all alloy modern casting of a pushrod 5.8 or 6 litre smallblock . It would kick sand in the face of this thing and we all know it .

[6_litre_man]

Ok no surprise to see the usual suspects here talking it up as god's gift but what do you think it will really be like ? To be honest I would be *extremely* surprised if a 5L will get better power, economy and drivability in a similar package than the bigger cubed LSx series in any real world .

im not going to say this engine is god gift in any way shape or form but what to say this engine cant produce these numbers. I know its talking massive difference in money expenditure on R&D but ferrari have been making small capacity v8s with tremendous power for years, y couldnt ford do it?

[RED R8]

Well at least it looks nice.

[185iboy]

Looks pretty promising, hopefully they can go somewhere well on the aftermarket side of things.

For people doubting cubes look at bmw/audi v8's, they're not monsters either but they go places..

[ti0350]

Think Holden and HSV are still going to end up on top look at the shop list of engines that GM make.. Just chuck the LS9 in a GTS 476 kW@6500rpm and 819 N·m@3800rpm. game over..

[payaya]

Revs to 7000rpm lovely.

[mmciau]

Revs to 7000rpm lovely.

That's right and if you do that in little suburbia, plod will seize the car!!

The name of the game for 95% of the time I'd suggest is to use the torque to get you from A to B "economically" and "efficiently".

If the LS series engines deliver good torque at lower revs than the new Ford block does, then the LS series will use less fuel and endure less wear and tear.

Mike

[payaya]

That's right and if you do that in little suburbia, plod will seize the car!!

The name of the game for 95% of the time I'd suggest is to use the torque to get you from A to B "economically" and "efficiently".

If the LS series engines deliver good torque at lower revs than the new Ford block does, then the LS series will use less fuel and endure less wear and tear.

Mike

Well tell BMW, Audi and Mercedes to stop making high rpm V8's then.

Its not like it does not produce torque at low rpm! Wait till the engine is released before "assuming"!

[Ellistwo]

Come on guys, give the Ford engineers some credit, they have made some great engines and cars in their time and this lump will probably be the goods. GM doesn't have a monopoly on technology, although the LS engines have been a great success and make for a very pleasurable drive.

[smokey777]

Come on guys, give the Ford engineers some credit, they have made some great engines and cars in their time and this lump will probably be the goods. GM doesn't have a monopoly on technology, although the LS engines have been a great success and make for a very pleasurable drive.

GM & Technology?

[DR-vyss-108]

im really liking the idea of this, hoping it does make good competition for gm

[Ghia351]

5 litres, naturally aspirated,......300KW......it's gonna be working a lot harder than the LS3 to get that.
I say there's no substitute for cubic inches, or, if you like, there's no replacement for displacement.
I say that this engine, even if it has got 300KW, will still leave the 6.2 litre LS3 with the upper hand.....and, as we all know, HSV have plenty more stuff to choose from in the GM "toyshop",....... if they think they need it.
So, NO, I don't think HSV will be "quaking in their shoes" just yet.
Cheers, Pickles.Is this base version Coyote going into FPV's? I would assume it's an XR8 engine with those power figures.

[Ken]

Having been involved with this program for the past 18 months, I can state with some clarity that Ford have a nice solution.
GM/HSV should & will consider this engine platform a viable adversary ... which will help further develop the performance industry from both sides of the fence.
:goodjob:

[Ghia351]

They were saying the same thing when the 5.4L Boss came out. Guess what, the Boss was good compared to the LS1 in factory trim but a POS compared to the LS1 for the racers. Anyway, I always thought the LS engines were more fuel efficient than the Boss? :confused:

The 5.0L V8 looks good on paper but so does the current Boss. Not much difference in power/torque between the old Ford and new Ford V8s I notice. The new V8 just seems to make power at higher rpms. That's not necessarily good.

Has Ford made a huge step sideways? We'll soon find out.As you say the proof will be obvious in less then 6 months for us however from my novice knowledge I've read: there's a very big weight difference vs local Boss 290/315, this V8 is close to I6T weight I think so with better revs, lower CofG , has vvt which the Boss' don't have, better torque delivery, lower emmisions, better economy, supercharging and turbo charging options from factory. Add the fact US has taken care of most R&D meaning Ford Oz can save as much money as Holden does when crating over. I'd be interested to see if it would entice me out of the G6ET which has been brilliant to date.

[Ghia351]

Having been involved with this program for the past 18 months, I can state with some clarity that Ford have a nice solution.
GM/HSV should & will consider this engine platform a viable adversary ... which will help further develop the performance industry from both sides of the fence.
:goodjob:LOL, that's like opening the door to the lolly shop but not handing over any money to spend...can you add anything without getting into any trouble?

[bouka]

Having been involved with this program for the past 18 months, I can state with some clarity that Ford have a nice solution.
GM/HSV should & will consider this engine platform a viable adversary ... which will help further develop the performance industry from both sides of the fence.
:goodjob:

It would be great if Ford release a competitive V8. It would rekindle the V8 wars between the red and blue and we all win when that happens.

Exciting times ahead if you are right Ken.

[csv rulz]

If it is anything like the Jag XFR 5LSupercharged it will be a threat

[Ken]

LOL, that's like opening the door to the lolly shop but not handing over any money to spend...can you add anything without getting into any trouble?

Unfortunately not.
I enjoy working with some very talented people on some very cool projects, but the downside is that I can't share the details of the excitment without risking my business.

Like most automotive paradigms ... the more the opposing car companies battle, the better the options are for us consumers (& developers).

[Ghia351]

Unfortunately not.
I enjoy working with some very talented people on some very cool projects, but the downside is that I can't share the details of the excitment without risking my business.

Like most automotive paradigms ... the more the opposing car companies battle, the better the options are for us consumers (& developers).I would have been surprised if you said otherwise. At least some locals have been involved and for a while. Cheers.

[macca33]

I think it will surprise a lot of people and undoubtedly, will produce the goods. The technology is proven by other manufacturers - smaller displacement, multi cam / valves and VVT seem to do the job for Toyota and the Euros (BMW, Audi, etc), so why not Ford?

I'm sure the input from Ken et al. will REALLY improve the performance past the touted levels...:1peek:

Ghia351 - don't get rid of the G6ET too soon - they are a ripper rig and probably my next lease car, I reckon, when the Senator goes to non-daily duties.

cheers

[Evman]

Ken ya bastard that's not fair! :lol: I just love the way some people in this and a previous thread say that they love the idea of a smaller, more fuel efficient V8. Then they go on to say they'd love a supercharged one :lmao:

Speaking of which, if Ken has been involved in the program then perhaps there will be a supercharged version :idea:

Do you know why I think the LSx series engines have been so popular? Aftermarket upgrades. Think about it, the LSx's starting with the LS1 have virtually the same basic everything minus revised inlets, outlets, etc. The superchargers all fit with only minor tweaks to fit updated heads, extractors are the same and internally there are a lot of parts for early LSx's that go into current LSx's. These are true aftermarket performers and Australia and America at least have soaked up the opportunity to really develop these engines without having to start from scratch each time an updated and improved engine was released.

They may not be as efficient or technologically advanced (despite being increasingly well engineered), but LSx's still have the edge IMO. What V8 buying enthusiasts wants a stock car?

[djst]

This reads to be like a motor that can rev at 7000 all day,and produce a reasonable spread of torque for its size.
There are also rumours of different TTypes of supercharging for the motor.:)

[Bako88]

The 5.0L was very popular in the USA and I think the older "Mustangs" when tuned nicely make the newer 4.6L owners green with envy. I assume though that the Coyote's 5.0L is something new? Or maybe a larger displacement version of the U.S. 4.6L?

[payaya]

Yep its new.

[bouka]

I think it will surprise a lot of people and undoubtedly, will produce the goods. The technology is proven by other manufacturers - smaller displacement, multi cam / valves and VVT seem to do the job for Toyota and the Euros (BMW, Audi, etc), so why not Ford?

I'm sure the input from Ken et al. will REALLY improve the performance past the touted levels...:1peek:

Ghia351 - don't get rid of the G6ET too soon - they are a ripper rig and probably my next lease car, I reckon, when the Senator goes to non-daily duties.

cheers

G6ET is a great rig. Can see you in one of these Macca. Best of both worlds with the Senator as a weekender and the G6ET as a daily.

Supercharger for the Senator soon aye!

[Ghia351]

Speaking of which, if Ken has been involved in the program then perhaps there will be a supercharged version :idea: I would say that some form of forced induction is a definate. One thing is for sure, the V8 market will change big time by mid-year when Euro IV kicks in. Who would have thought emission regs would be a bonus to performance V8 fans, and in particular Ford fans.

[macca_779]

What V8 buying enthusiasts wants a stock car?

Certaintly the majority. Alot of punters stop at an exhaust system.. Their loss.

[RED R8]

That's right and if you do that in little suburbia, plod will seize the car!!

The name of the game for 95% of the time I'd suggest is to use the torque to get you from A to B "economically" and "efficiently".

If the LS series engines deliver good torque at lower revs than the new Ford block does, then the LS series will use less fuel and endure less wear and tear.

Mike
Mine seems to be on the "rup rup rup" rev limiter a bit..

[Evman]

Certaintly the majority. Alot of punters stop at an exhaust system.. Their loss.

That may be so but the cheaper and more effective aftermarket parts are the more likely they are to buy them. My point was that having a series of engines that are for the most part the same or very similar allows for far greater R&D on parts and result in a lower cost due to high product volumes.

[Vulture]

Well tell BMW, Audi and Mercedes to stop making high rpm V8's then.

Interestingly the Europeans are now turning away from 'screamer' high rpm V8 engines to forced induction (turbos) on their V8s. They are dropping the capacity from 6.0L to more like 4-5.0L. The next AMGs and BMW M series are going down this path. Decreased emissions, better power, torque +++ and better economy. Seems high rpm V8s are now yesterday's news despite the incredible Ferrari engine in the 458 Italia.

[White Rider]

Interestingly the Europeans are now turning away from 'screamer' high rpm V8 engines to forced induction (turbos) on their V8s. They are dropping the capacity from 6.0L to more like 4-5.0L. The next AMGs and BMW M series are going down this path. Decreased emissions, better power, torque +++ and better economy. Seems high rpm V8s are now yesterday's news despite the incredible Ferrari engine in the 458 Italia.


Not much point comparing engine design ethos with companies who's engines cost as much as a whole Holden car IMO.

[duke5700]

Well a question one might ask if he was so inclined "has the LS series motor finished its evolution?"

I think quite resonably you will see the n/a coyote in lower models (or if we are really lucky in some small/medium sized cars) and some form of whipple charged version in the higher up models.

Seeing as Euro IV is on its way? Is the LS motor compliant or will we see a stop gap modification the the LS motor while a new smaller capacity, more efficient engine is produced/designed?

[Excellent]

As you say the proof will be obvious in less then 6 months for us however from my novice knowledge I've read: there's a very big weight difference vs local Boss 290/315, this V8 is close to I6T weight I think so with better revs, lower CofG , has vvt which the Boss' don't have, better torque delivery, lower emmisions, better economy, supercharging and turbo charging options from factory. Add the fact US has taken care of most R&D meaning Ford Oz can save as much money as Holden does when crating over. I'd be interested to see if it would entice me out of the G6ET which has been brilliant to date.

That's a good point. I read somewhere the new V8 engine will be almost 100kg down on the current Ford V8. If that's true then the new engine should be a ripper.

I'd be interested to see if the new engine would entice me, too. :)

[ti0350]

Does this engine mean Holden might actually have to bump the power of the SS up, the XR8 and SS might be packing over 300kw shortly. Which means HSV and FPV are going to have to go more power to keep the power difference between the brands, maybe thats where the forced induction might come in..

[Pickles]

Having been involved with this program for the past 18 months, I can state with some clarity that Ford have a nice solution.
GM/HSV should & will consider this engine platform a viable adversary ... which will help further develop the performance industry from both sides of the fence.
:goodjob:
Ken...very tantalizing....Im sure we'd all love more info! Could you even tell us WHEN, you think Ford (Aus) may announce local variants of this engine.
As I've said, from what I've READ, I think the LS3 will still have the upper hand....& I'm still of that opinion, but your words "viable adversary" sound very promising, so you obviously are of the opinion that it is a seriously better proposition than their current V8s.
And I agree that we will all benefit from a better engine from Ford.
Cheers, Pickles.

[F6Mauz]

Interestingly the Europeans are now turning away from 'screamer' high rpm V8 engines to forced induction (turbos) on their V8s. They are dropping the capacity from 6.0L to more like 4-5.0L. The next AMGs and BMW M series are going down this path. Decreased emissions, better power, torque +++ and better economy. Seems high rpm V8s are now yesterday's news despite the incredible Ferrari engine in the 458 Italia.

They may go to lower capacity with turbo's but they will still rev them out to 7500rpm+

[VY18s]

I actually hope this engine is a succees, because it might push Holden/HSV to do a forced V8 also.

[macca_779]

I actually hope this engine is a succees, because it might push Holden/HSV to do a forced V8 also.

Wouldn't be hard. LS9 or even the LSA would drop straight in as even the dry sump setup development has already been done on VE from W427.

[Vulture]

Not much point comparing engine design ethos with companies who's engines cost as much as a whole Holden car IMO.

Fair point, but they do give an indication of what the future may hold for our more down-to-Earth vehicles.

[Party Pete]

The new 5l Jaguar engine was going to be used in Ford cars until the decision was made to sell Jaguar. Then Ford started designing its own engine which happens to be very similar in specs. Makes you wonder just how much Ford looked at the Jag design, I suspect quite a lot. If the Ford version goes anywhere near as well as the Jaguar one this will be a real taste of quality in a relatively cheap car. I will certainly be having a look at one when they come out.

[F6 Hoon]

Well, if Ken's involved there's likely to be a supercharged variant.

The question is, which model TVS has been fitted to it :lol: I'd be almost 100% sure it will be an Eaton style blower, not a twin screw one.

[YMK]

They were saying the same thing when the 5.4L Boss came out. Guess what, the Boss was good compared to the LS1 in factory trim but a POS compared to the LS1 for the racers. Anyway, I always thought the LS engines were more fuel efficient than the Boss? :confused:I take it you mean to say "economical", not "efficient". The 5.4 makes roundabout the same power with 800cc less. Some comparisons showed the LS was more economical, some articles didn't.
Yes, the LS has it all over the 5.4 when considering mods. It also packs quite a punch for it's weight, which is what you want. Heat-soak is it's only prob.


The 5.0L V8 looks good on paper but so does the current Boss. Not much difference in power/torque between the old Ford and new Ford V8s I notice. The new V8 just seems to make power at higher rpms. That's not necessarily good.Apart from the 100lbs less weight, there's not much difference. Did you know this new 5 litre makes has the same amount of torque as the 270kW SS, but at lower rpm (4250 vs 4400)?
And since it's power peaks at 6500rpm, which means, when considering where the torque peaks, it has quite a good torque curve.


Has Ford made a huge step sideways? We'll soon find out.Soon is now. It's blown. If you thought the Ford turbos were giving LS owners a hard time....



Ken...very tantalizing....Im sure we'd all love more info! Could you even tell us WHEN, you think Ford (Aus) may announce local variants of this engine.
As I've said, from what I've READ, I think the LS3 will still have the upper hand....& I'm still of that opinion, but your words "viable adversary" sound very promising, so you obviously are of the opinion that it is a seriously better proposition than their current V8s.
And I agree that we will all benefit from a better engine from Ford.
Cheers, Pickles.Put it this way, if HSV don't use the LSA, they're screwed.

[ti0350]

I think Holden still have a lot of room to move with the L76, I also think you wont see using the blown 5.0l in every thing more likely will turn up in the GTHO that has been thrown around for the last few years.. I still Holden and HSV will still be on top but this new ford engine might make them sharpen their games up a little bit which can only end up as plus for all of us..

[CarlFST60L]

Lets hope Holden / HSV get a gear box / drive line rated to handle more power as that is the only thing holding it all back atm.

[Martin_D]

Soon is now. It's blown. If you thought the Ford turbos were giving LS owners a hard time....

No matter how good the supercharged 5 litre is, it wont get within a bulls roar of the 4 litre turbo mod for mod....

[Pickles]

5 Litre, Coyote,...Supercharged?....yes, that would be interesting.
And, as another member mentioned, HSV have the option of the LSA. And if HSV did use the LSA, it would certainly be Ford/FPV that would be "screwed".
But for the same reason that I don't think HSV would use the LSA in a mainstream model, I can't see FPV using a similar (supercharged) engine either....simply too expensive.
There's talk of high powered, multi valve/cam engines in various Euro cars, & the new Jag etc etc....but these are expensive cars costing a LOT more than our FPV/HSV offerings.
BUT, there has been a comment in this thread by Ken, a respected & well known, no B/S member of the forum, who obviously knows what FPV/Ford are doing, & his comments ("viable adversary") leave me wondering!
Cheers Pickles.

[Ghia351]

Are the current Holden 6.0L and HSV 6.2L V8's Euro IV compliant? And if not which of the available powerplants can they choose that are?

[adamRSLC]

Having been involved with this program for the past 18 months, I can state with some clarity that Ford have a nice solution.
GM/HSV should & will consider this engine platform a viable adversary ... which will help further develop the performance industry from both sides of the fence.
:goodjob:

This man speaks the truth , have seen a pic of the "nice solution" from an insider and suprisingly its still a very tight fit in the FG falcon . I would of thought it was more compact than the current V8 .

Its already been reported but it seems FPV only V8's from july 1st 2010 .

[YMK]

No matter how good the supercharged 5 litre is, it wont get within a bulls roar of the 4 litre turbo mod for mod....Hi mate, love your work.
You are right, being a snail, and having a decent aftermarket, the 4 litre turbo is 2nd to none with mods. It's a good thing a TT 5-litre is in the pipeline.




Are the current Holden 6.0L and HSV 6.2L V8's Euro IV compliant? And if not which of the available powerplants can they choose that are?I don't think there's anything viable.

[dmenace]

Isn't GM testing a Direct Injection LS?

[Excellent]

I take it you mean to say "economical", not "efficient". The 5.4 makes roundabout the same power with 800cc less. Some comparisons showed the LS was more economical, some articles didn't.
Yes, the LS has it all over the 5.4 when considering mods. It also packs quite a punch for it's weight, which is what you want. Heat-soak is it's only prob.

Apart from the 100lbs less weight, there's not much difference. Did you know this new 5 litre makes has the same amount of torque as the 270kW SS, but at lower rpm (4250 vs 4400)?
And since it's power peaks at 6500rpm, which means, when considering where the torque peaks, it has quite a good torque curve.

Soon is now. It's blown. If you thought the Ford turbos were giving LS owners a hard time....


Put it this way, if HSV don't use the LSA, they're screwed.

Actually, I was responding to Jarhead's post where he implied that DOHC was a more 'fuel efficient' alternative to GM's lack of technology. That's an over-simpliifed comment that's been done to death already.

Just as a matter of interest, there's lots more that GM can do with the LS engine to make it better. If GM wasn't so aftermarket friendly, I'm sure we'd get more purpose-built engines.

Anyway, I'm excited by the new Ford 5.0L engine but compare that engine's capacity to BMW's 5.0L (yes it's a V10) and I'm sure you'd agree there's a huge difference in output just as there is between the LS3 and AMG 6.2L V8.

The point I make is that we have very good V8s from Ford and Holden but both are way below where they can be. I think that your point is just a baseless comparison because I'm sure you know the LS3 can make a lot more power even under Euro IV. I don't think Holden/HSV are ever that complacent.

[cashie]

No matter how good the supercharged 5 litre is, it wont get within a bulls roar of the 4 litre turbo mod for mod....

Why is this Martin? Is it due to the lack of potential from the blower over the turbo?

[Martin_D]

Its got to do with the big compressor hanging off the side of the engine (in the F6 models at least). Its efficient at 18psi+ boost pressure and will produce around 420rwkw of airflow potential - which is more than the biggest aftermarket pd style units do on production V8 engines :)

[Torxteer]

There have been rumours that if the XR8 continues that it too will get the supercharged motor but on very low boost to save Ford having to build NA and blown units.

Will be interesting times ahead.

Isnt GM working on a LS4? Smaller capacity with direct injection?

[Ken]

... Isnt GM working on a LS4? Smaller capacity with direct injection?

The 5.3ltr LS4 has been in production for many years - another variant of the Gen4. It is usually found in front-wheel-drive platforms.
There was also an LS4 in the 60/70's - but it was 454ci

[Angeldust]

i read on wiki that gm is working on the Gen V a direct injection thingy



In 2007, wardsauto.com reported that the LS3 (used by 2008 Chevrolet Corvette) and Vortec 6000 LFA (used by 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid) engines would be the final two designs in the Generation IV small-block engine family, and the future designs would be part of the Generation V engine family.


from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine

[chevypower]

i read on wiki that gm is working on the Gen V a direct injection thingy





from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine

Some likely displacements for the Gen V V8s (all being direct injection)

4.9L V8 (as seen in the GMC Denali XT concept)
5.5L V8 (seems to be going around the internet)
7.0L V8 (said to be in testing for the trucks, and I am sure for top of the range Corvettes)

Should keep things interesting.

[planetdavo]

I think I'll wait until it's installed in a Falcon and tested in Australia before forming any great opinions.
All I will say is that competition improves the breed, so I hope it works well in Falcon, rather than just being a dyno legend.

[burnoutnut]

Very very nice

[burnoutnut]

I think I'll wait until it's installed in a Falcon and tested in Australia before forming any great opinions.
All I will say is that competition improves the breed, so I hope it works well in Falcon, rather than just being a dyno legend.

that is tru... with out it cars would still be slow as hell

[Noisy]

The more competition the better, especially if it keeps the V8's improving

[troytroy]

...no doubt Ford will add another 100kg to its next model to blunt whatever performance gain from the new engine. That way it can keep it's tradition of producing ever powerful XR8s that still only manage 0-100km/h in 6.0 secs and GT's being not very much better.

New tradition is to have the $70,000 GT put out less at the wheels than the 270kw $46,00 6 Turbo.....:confused:

If now is the time to add direct injection on the V8's then......you can assume GM will do it three years too late.

It would be interesting how many people here would sell their HSV if they were selling GT's with Supercharged V8s that put out more power and torque than an LS3? Hell if I had the cash and was looking in that market - you'd be mad not to at least go for a test drive....

[Evman]

Maybe if people sold both of their HSV's troytroy. I can guarantee a supercharged GT wont be going for the same price as the current GT. Besides, you can get a supercharged HSV with full warranty through Walkinshaw.

[planetdavo]

Wonder if Ken's "special project" is the integration of the supercharger installation on behalf of Prodrive for the next FPV...? :hide:

[Evman]

What's the going rate for a blown Clubby or GTS from Walkinshaw these days? It's much more likely that a blown FPV would be in a similar price range to that.

[planetdavo]

Maybe if people sold both of their HSV's troytroy. I can guarantee a supercharged GT wont be going for the same price as the current GT. Besides, you can get a supercharged HSV with full warranty through Walkinshaw.
WP's warranty is that of an "aftermarket" operation though, as they no official link to Holden, and their work isn't approved by them.
This can also have an effect on future resale values.

[bouka]

Wonder if Ken's "special project" is the integration of the supercharger installation on behalf of Prodrive for the next FPV...? :hide:

Sir, your powers of deduction are astonishing. :p

It is obvious that FPV's V8's will be supercharged. There will not be a major price rise. Someone mentioned a TT V8 in an earlier post and this may not be as unrealistic as it sounds (timeframe unknown).

One would expect an announcement on the charger issue somewhere in April (or there abouts) and it would be expected that actual specs and power figures would be under an embargo until then.

But i am purely speculating and have no solid basis for my comments.

Another prediction, if i may, is that the next year and beyond will be a very exciting time for performance sedan enthusiasts from Aussie and beyond (and a hot little hatch or two).

Very exciting times indeed.

[AndrewR8]

I'm really looking forward to a new Ford V8, the 5.4 is becoming long in the tooth and not really showing the results that i'm sure a lot of Ford V8 owners want, even though the GT still out sells the F6. The only reason I bought a VE HSV was because the Ford V8 lacked even though I felt the FG GT package was superior after numerous test drives.

I really hope its punchy, aggressive, and sweet sounding, that would round off a really good package for FPV and Ford.

[mangusta]

WP's warranty is that of an "aftermarket" operation though, as they no official link to Holden, and their work isn't approved by them.
This can also have an effect on future resale values.

GM/Vauxhaul collaborated with walkinshaw to release the Bathurst edition commodore in the UK, the street is not always one way.

[Evman]

WP's warranty is that of an "aftermarket" operation though, as they no official link to Holden, and their work isn't approved by them.
This can also have an effect on future resale values.

So? Warranty is warranty. People go on about how they'd love a supercharged V8 from factory and they virtually have the option. HSV have already stated that no, there wont be a supercharged HSV because WP offer them already.

[FireArc]

What's the going rate for a blown Clubby or GTS from Walkinshaw these days? It's much more likely that a blown FPV would be in a similar price range to that.

According to this (http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?p=867265) website:


The whole 470kW Walkinshaw package costs $45,000 - $13,000 for the wheels (this part is fine and who in their right mind would pay $13,000 for wheels on a Commodore) + $62,890 which includes a 6-speed HSV Clubsport R8 with no options = $94,890. Get rid of the bonnet and it's still going to cost $92,890. That’s a bit more than a bit over 80 grand but as he said you don't need the brake upgrade, which is where he gets his estimate from that equals more like $86,890. With this much power and that much weight, the brake upgrade is necessary.


This also excludes the brake upgrades which according to that site is potentially another $6000. So you are looking at approximately $113,890 ($45,000 + $62,890 + $6000) with a base spec R8. Remove the WS bonnet, WS wheels and brake upgrade and you are looking at $86,890 as mentioned in the quote above.

Keep in mind though these prices are for an aftermarket application; FPV will be able to utilise a range of economies of scale to be able to offer it cheaper than this. How much? We'll soon find out.

[Evman]

According to this (http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?p=867265) website:



This also excludes the brake upgrades which according to that site is potentially another $6000. So you are looking at approximately $113,890 ($45,000 + $62,890 + $6000) with a base spec R8. Remove the WS bonnet, WS wheels and brake upgrade and you are looking at $86,890 as mentioned in the quote above.

Keep in mind though these prices are for an aftermarket application; FPV will be able to utilise a range of economies of scale to be able to offer it cheaper than this. How much? We'll soon find out.

Nearly 25k for a supercharger alone going by what you posted up. I think I'll look for a more reliable source than going off that.

Edit:
Well Harrop, which certainly aren't the cheapest of the suppliers, offers the HTV1900 for the VE for $11,500 or so. I don't know what fitting costs are involved but I think it'd be safe to assume it'd be well and truly below 25k.

[wp01]

Nearly 25k for a supercharger alone going by what you posted up. I think I'll look for a more reliable source than going off that.

Edit:
Well Harrop, which certainly aren't the cheapest of the suppliers, offers the HTV1900 for the VE for $11,500 or so. I don't know what fitting costs are involved but I think it'd be safe to assume it'd be well and truly below 25k.

Well and truely below 25K ! Current 6.0 and 6.2L drive in drive out fitment of a WP190 unit is $15,600.00.
And will shortly be offered with a full 3 year 100,000Klm powertrain warranty coverage !
Stay tuned ....

AL

[Red CV8 R]

Well and truely below 25K ! Current 6.0 and 6.2L drive in drive out fitment of a WP190 unit is $15,600.00.
And will shortly be offered with a full 3 year 100,000Klm powertrain warranty coverage !
Stay tuned ....

AL


Wow! I can see you getting some decent business with that warranty!


:goodjob:

[Evman]

16k or so on top of a brand new HSV. HSV might be able to beat that by a grand or two due to larger sales volumes but why bother? Holden/HSV have indirectly made the first move through Walkinshaw, so it's up to Ford/FPV to catch up :)

[CarlFST60L]

This also excludes the brake upgrades which according to that site is potentially another $6000.

Sounds like they just want to sting you for more $$ with a brake upgrade. What the hell would you need to upgrade the factory VE HSV brakes for!? I ran mine (with decent fluid) to the limit and the tyres give in way before the brakes even start to show signs of reduced performance. The only time the factory HSV brakes need upgrading is for SERIOUS track work on semi comp tyres or better. The factory fluid isn't great, but $50 will fix that, not $6000 :lol:

[planetdavo]

GM/Vauxhaul collaborated with walkinshaw to release the Bathurst edition commodore in the UK, the street is not always one way.

Vauxhall took up the warranty on those, not Holden, and not GM head office...:teach:

[planetdavo]

So? Warranty is warranty. People go on about how they'd love a supercharged V8 from factory and they virtually have the option. HSV have already stated that no, there wont be a supercharged HSV because WP offer them already.

People also go on about how they'd love an LS7 powered SS, and want it to be dirt cheap or they'll have a dummy spit too...:rolleyes:
Can't have everything you want in life. Meeting GM corporate policy for new vehicles is something WP don't have to worry themselves with, as they have no factory link, other than Premoso being the owner of both HSV and themselves. :)
One does "factory", and the other does "aftermarket". There is a MAAAAAAAAAAAASSIVE difference in engineering requirements for both, hence why the one with a supercharger isn't warranted by Holden... :teach:

[Tre-Cool]

i still remember the top gear shootout of the stock 6.2 maloo vs the blown clubby.

Who won?

The 6.2 N/A motor.

I suspect all you get is noise and reduced timing so the thing doesnt hand grenade.

First thing you'd do as a uk buyer is find someone who can actually tune the bloody thing, so it's no wonder they offer a warranty on it. Probably makes less power from the drive loss spinning the blower and shit tune.

[Ausgt-r]

i still remember the top gear shootout of the stock 6.2 maloo vs the blown clubby.

Who won?

The 6.2 N/A motor.



???? err check again....

The supercharged Clubsport was faster :).

[Party Pete]

If I remember rightly the WP car was slower than the NA car initially with the ultra low profile tyres. Then they fitted the standard Clubsport rims and tyres and the WP car was faster.

What is the story with the Walkinshaw supercharger kit and the legality of the kit? Spending $80k for a car which is a mobile defect notice waiting to happen is not exactly the same as buying a factory complied car. If they are offering a kit which has all the expensive compliance requirements dealt with the kit would be very appealing together with the warranty.

[Evman]

And will shortly be offered with a full 3 year 100,000Klm powertrain warranty coverage !
Stay tuned ....

AL


One does "factory", and the other does "aftermarket". There is a MAAAAAAAAAAAASSIVE difference in engineering requirements for both, hence why the one with a supercharger isn't warranted by Holden... :teach:

Did you miss WP's little addition to the thread? My point is still standing very strongly. Why would HSV effectively compete with itself and release a "factory" supercharged model when Walkinshaw already do it with (soon to be) full powertrain warranty.

Warranty is warranty Davo. There's always fine print I know. Holden's fine print says 'up yours we'll screw you over as much as we can anyway'.

Edit:
Reading over it I can't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my post... Sorry if I went on the semi-attack for no reason.

[planetdavo]

Did you miss WP's little addition to the thread? My point is still standing very strongly. Why would HSV effectively compete with itself and release a "factory" supercharged model when Walkinshaw already do it will (soon to be) full powertrain warranty.

Warranty is warranty Davo. There's always fine print I know. Holden's fine print says 'up yours we'll screw you over as much as we can anyway'.

Owning a car that is partially warranted by a full manufacturer and partially warranted by an aftermarket workshop will often end up less than pretty my friend. :bawl: At least WP is offering better "warranty" conditions than most do.
PS: I do know that it is this forums favourite past time to bag the sh!t out of Holden. Many people are contributing to the issues they then slag Holden off about on here, sorry to tell you.
You can believe whatever you want. We actually see these cars. The owners often only see $$$ bills if their abuse is discovered, and that is the primary motivation for their rants...:teach:

[Ghia351]

If anyone buys Motor and reads the story on the s/c Coyote engine for FPV, it's actually a Jag engine they have in the photo, with FPV logo on the engine cover,lol. And no, they're not the same engines. Although they did get the internal nickname right.

[Tre-Cool]

???? err check again....

The supercharged Clubsport was faster :).
Top Gear Uk it was .8 quicker than the N/A Car at how much more expensive?

That to me says something aint right and because it's a circuit track and not a 1/4 race it all adds up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayy15WfQP1s

[Ellistwo]

So just to wrap up so far:

the 5.0 will replace the boss;
the 5.0 will deliver 307kW;
FPV are dropping a super charger on it to keep up with HSV;
there is no ecoboost version confirmed yet:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/48607/ford-50-coyote-engine-to-join-falcon-range/

[Evman]

Must be at it's peak if FPV are needing to supercharge it for a power increase :hmmm:

[Kuzman89]

i read its good for 330kw on an engine spec website? Might have misread, could be cheaper bolting on a SC? I dont understand that myself :confused:

[aedeau]

i still remember the top gear shootout of the stock 6.2 maloo vs the blown clubby.

Who won?

The 6.2 N/A motor.

I suspect all you get is noise and reduced timing so the thing doesnt hand grenade.


I think from memory is was more to do with the 22" wheels not really being that great for the track.

[AndrewR8]

from what I understand the 307kw version of the coyote is at base form, once the motors are sent to FPV they will be modified to run higher numbers for the NA and S/C version. Its presumed the XR8 will get the 307kw version. This quote on caradvice suggests there will be 2 versions of the V8 within FPV "The GT-H moniker registered as a trademark by Ford Australia is likely to be reserved for a high output version of the Coyote"

I don't know what else GT-H could be as they already have a luxury version the GT-E.

[ti0350]

I read somewhere today that the coyote is a bigger version of the 4.6l and can't go any more then 5.0 litres.
So it it means the only way they can get more power from it is to either tweak the tune or wack a blower on it.. The coyote also is tight fit in the falcon so they can't turbo it which I would assume put ecco boost out fo the equation..

[Ghia351]

I read somewhere today that the coyote is a bigger version of the 4.6l and can't go any more then 5.0 litres.
So it it means the only way they can get more power from it is to either tweak the tune or wack a blower on it.. The coyote also is tight fit in the falcon so they can't turbo it which I would assume put ecco boost out fo the equation..Actually the engine has been designed and built from the start to have direct injection, turbo charging (eco-boost technology basically) and supercharging added at later developmental stages. And I think the Falcon engine bay is bigger then a Mustang so fitting isn't an issue. It's just the 1st series of a new engine.

If you can be bothered reading the pages and pages of this article taken from FAF it gives massive levels of detail : http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=341271&postcount=98

[Uncle Tone]

I was disappointed to hear that the GT will only be getting 325 kw out of its blown 5 litre. I was expecting 5 litres of DOHC infinitely variable cam V8 to do that NA standing on its head......let alone with a blower in the valley.

[F6 Hoon]

I was disappointed to hear that the GT will only be getting 325 kw out of its blown 5 litre. I was expecting 5 litres of DOHC infinitely variable cam V8 to do that NA standing on its head......let alone with a blower in the valley.

Yeah, and the F6 only has 310kw. The 325 is a badge number, as to not out-do HSV. Only a matter of time before the do-gooders jump up and down and declare a power war.

A low blow P/D Coyote 5.0 would have to make a minimum of 350-360kw and 650nm of torque. I think the manufacturer will deliberately downplay power output.

[ti0350]

Actually the engine has been designed and built from the start to have direct injection, turbo charging (eco-boost technology basically) and supercharging added at later developmental stages. And I think the Falcon engine bay is bigger then a Mustang so fitting isn't an issue. It's just the 1st series of a new engine.

If you can be bothered reading the pages and pages of this article taken from FAF it gives massive levels of detail : http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=341271&postcount=98

Remembered where i read it, was in between patients at work so didnt read it all..
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/v8-falcon-xr8-threatened-20100115-mb3u.html

[duke5700]

I was disappointed to hear that the GT will only be getting 325 kw out of its blown 5 litre. I was expecting 5 litres of DOHC infinitely variable cam V8 to do that NA standing on its head......let alone with a blower in the valley.

I think the power delivery is where the benefit will be. It will make instant torque and one would expect it to make more than the phoon and probably be quicker standing start and possibly roll on.

[Torxteer]

I was disappointed to hear that the GT will only be getting 325 kw out of its blown 5 litre. I was expecting 5 litres of DOHC infinitely variable cam V8 to do that NA standing on its head......let alone with a blower in the valley.

The base NA 5.0 makes 307kw so Id say the blown version would be a bit higher than 325.

Remember the old GTHO was only rated at 300hp.

[planetdavo]

Think I'll wait until the output figures installed in a Falcon are released before I believe anything.
For people with short memories, 11 years of Gen3 and Gen 4 motors in Commodore's should have told you all just how much variance an "installed" engine's output often varies between countries, once you factor in fuel grades, emission regulations, tuning for either outright power or for improved fuel economy, market competition, etc etc...
Most US versions mentioned above have higher claimed power and/or torque outputs than the Australian installed versions of the same engine.

[Ghia351]

Think I'll wait until the output figures installed in a Falcon are released before I believe anything.
For people with short memories, 11 years of Gen3 and Gen 4 motors in Commodore's should have told you all just how much variance an "installed" engine's output often varies between countries, once you factor in fuel grades, emission regulations, tuning for either outright power or for improved fuel economy, market competition, etc etc...
Most US versions mentioned above have higher claimed power and/or torque outputs than the Australian installed versions of the same engine.Always the wisest move. Since BA Ford Oz have always understated their power figures to avoid unnecessary media attack. Look at when the F6 first came out, the "anti" performance brigade bagged it's torque output because it was the highest ever for an Australian car at the time "porche equally was once stupid quote". Interestingly Holden never got the some rough treatment and the latest GTS numbers or past W274 went by with little if any negative press. The Coyote in the US Mustang install has a claimed 307kW on US 87 which equates to our 91ron. One thing that will be guaranteed is the "sticker/badge numbers" will be just that. Getting the rumoured extra 18kW with a s/c install would be hardly worth it and the onroad peformance numbers will show the true difference in power/torque plus the components and their different torque ratings if they do use different specs between models

[planetdavo]

Interestingly Holden never got the some rough treatment and the...past W274 went by with little if any negative press.

That's because it has 153kW less power than the W427 previously released...:stick:
(Sorry mate, couldn't resist. :))

[Ghia351]

That's because it has 153kW less power than the W427 previously released...:stick:
(Sorry mate, couldn't resist. :))2 x :stick:...so how come it's not much quicker...

[JET-33]

will this engine go into the taurus when they stop making falcons? :nyuk: :nyuk: :nyuk: :p or will FPV remain and make use of it?

[planetdavo]

2 x :stick:...so how come it's not much quicker...

It would be called "the law of diminishing returns" mate.
(Doesn't need a stick, as it's a fact. :))

[Ghia351]

It would be called "the law of diminishing returns" mate.
(Doesn't need a stick, as it's a fact. :))Definately not your case here however sometimes good humour needs to be expressed in full detail for those with less "understanding".

[Ghia351]

For those interested, the first supercharged Coyote in a Shelby Mustang GT350: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/18/shelby-unveils-2011-gt350-mustang-at-barrett-jackson/ & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoHi9oBXfXc

....wonder if Ford Oz would release a GT-H with 351 kW...

[Pickles]

For those interested, the first supercharged Coyote in a Shelby Mustang GT350: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/18/shelby-unveils-2011-gt350-mustang-at-barrett-jackson/ & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoHi9oBXfXc

....wonder if Ford Oz would release a GT-H with 351 kW...

Ghia 351 ...EXCELLENT info, particularly hearing, and seeing, THE MAN himself!
Looks like a great car...I saw similarities with what they do with their cars, with what HSV do with the Commodore.
FPV's configuration, & eventual power output, of this engine will be interesting.
Thanks.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Ghia351]

Ghia 351 ...EXCELLENT info, particularly hearing, and seeing, THE MAN himself!
Looks like a great car...I saw similarities with what they do with their cars, with what HSV do with the Commodore.
FPV's configuration, & eventual power output, of this engine will be interesting.
Thanks.
Cheers, Pickles.No probs. I loved the part about Lee Iacocca "convincing" him to do the first GT350 45 years ago. Imagine what might have been had he kept saying no, lol? A living legend.

[Gee]

Thanks for the link Ghia351 ... Regardless of how the Coyote-powered cars ultimately turn out, for me Carroll Shelby will remain THE man when it comes to great 'factory' muscle, the footsteps that HSV, FPV, etc walk in today. No doubt someone will correct me, and Yenko comes straight to mind, but he's where it all starts.

Such a shame the new Mustang isn't underpinned by something like the Falcon chassis to be honest. Bloody terrible that Camaro can be seen as the better car :)

[nang3]

~US$64k for a blown shelby stang, yes ****ing please!!!

[Ellistwo]

For those interested, the first supercharged Coyote in a Shelby Mustang GT350: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/18/shelby-unveils-2011-gt350-mustang-at-barrett-jackson/ & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoHi9oBXfXc

....wonder if Ford Oz would release a GT-H with 351 kW...

What you have to be mindful of when they say things like a 500hp blower, is that parasitic pumping losses just to drive the blower will be, say 12.5%, so the net power at the fly would be ~437hp = ~326kW.

[Ghia351]

What you have to be mindful of when they say things like a 500hp blower, is that parasitic pumping losses just to drive the blower will be, say 12.5%, so the net power at the fly would be ~437hp = ~326kW.Actually all that is detailed in one of the articles with the US Ford engineers, something along the lines of "a 440hp motor is needed with s/c to compete with a n/a 400hp" motor due to load. Regardless of FVP's final true figures, there is no way they will be badged with real outputs so as to avoid rocking the "road safety boat".

[Ellistwo]

Yeah I'm just throwing figures, but if you take away things like alternatos, water pums, fans, etc the final figure will probably be around the magic number that will make the public servants happy.

I think there's a member here who's actually involved in the S/C mod?

[mrtockley]

Should be a ripper engine in both S/C and N/A form, and hopefully the Ford tuners can work (finally) some magic again with the Fords and keep the Holden boys honest. It's great to finally get rid of that heap of shit boat anchor BOSS 5.4. I did read in the latest wheels that the Coyote won't be equipped with Direct Injection or DOD which is a bit of a shame, but it should still shit all over the old BOSS !

[gtr27]

Welcome to 1998 and the BMW M5..........

It's good to see ford going for a high tech motor that (this time) doesnt weigh the same as the Queen Mary. I think smaller capacity forced induction is the way cars will go. We all know Gm could just slap the LS9 in a top range car if they wanted and spank the pants off just about anything (and dammit, why havent they? people paid 150K for a W427, and the LS9 is a MUCH better engine).

I'd like to see them take BMW's approach and make a sporty diesel (aka 535D which we dont get in oz).

3L twin turbo diesel that has GUTS, but is still very economical. Leave the high tech petrol motors for their premium/performance models. That way we might be able to enjoy ICE for a few years longer.

[mrtockley]

Welcome to 1998 and the BMW M5..........

It's good to see ford going for a high tech motor that (this time) doesnt weigh the same as the Queen Mary. I think smaller capacity forced induction is the way cars will go. We all know Gm could just slap the LS9 in a top range car if they wanted and spank the pants off just about anything (and dammit, why havent they? people paid 150K for a W427, and the LS9 is a MUCH better engine).

I'd like to see them take BMW's approach and make a sporty diesel (aka 535D which we dont get in oz).

3L twin turbo diesel that has GUTS, but is still very economical. Leave the high tech petrol motors for their premium/performance models. That way we might be able to enjoy ICE for a few years longer.

If the W427 cost $150 k (cough cough) then what the hell would a HSV with an LS9 cost ?? $180 - 200 .. for a Commodore based car - I don't think so ..

The new GT-HO will have the same power but more torque (if the specs are to be believed) but should weigh in much cheaper than the W427..

[gtr27]

But lets face it, we all know holden gouged prospective owners of the W427 senseless. Even buying a GTS, paying for a crate LS7 and getting it all installed is cheaper than a W427 which is absolutely ridiculous.

Holden dont care about resale for owners of commodores (look at the old 5.7L stroked donk - next model SS had the same power LMAO) so why should a LS9 commodore be any different.

Why cant it be like the old days where you can chop and change configuration depending on what u want. I.e you can tick a LS9 in a SS......

[planetdavo]

But lets face it, we all know holden gouged prospective owners of the W427 senseless. Even buying a GTS, paying for a crate LS7 and getting it all installed is cheaper than a W427 which is absolutely ridiculous.

Holden dont care about resale for owners of commodores (look at the old 5.7L stroked donk - next model SS had the same power LMAO) so why should a LS9 commodore be any different.

Why cant it be like the old days where you can chop and change configuration depending on what u want. I.e you can tick a LS9 in a SS......

Part 1: Yet another believer of that load of crap, that a W427 is simply a GTS with an LS7 fitted. The engine install is only part of it. There are so many unique parts I'd run out of room to list every different part number.
Part 2: Holden DO care about resale. For all the sooks on here complaining about VE having been out for 3 years without a cosmetic upgrade, why do you think Holden is doing this!? :confused:
Ok, I'll tell you. Facelifts kill resale. :idea:
Part 3: Not quite sure what part of "the old days" you are thinking of, but I don't recall it in my old days. :confused:
Holden offered about 14 trim colours, 26 different diff ratios, and a variety of engines ranging from utter sh!t to mildly warm, but not stinking hot motors in regular models (SS is nothing special, just a regular Holden model).

Imagine an LS9 powered VE SS with stock PBR brakes and regular FE2 suspension! :eek: :wambulance:

[mrtockley]

Part 1: Yet another believer of that load of crap, that a W427 is simply a GTS with an LS7 fitted. The engine install is only part of it. There are so many unique parts I'd run out of room to list every different part number.
Part 2: Holden DO care about resale. For all the sooks on here complaining about VE having been out for 3 years without a cosmetic upgrade, why do you think Holden is doing this!? :confused:
Ok, I'll tell you. Facelifts kill resale. :idea:
Part 3: Not quite sure what part of "the old days" you are thinking of, but I don't recall it in my old days. :confused:
Holden offered about 14 trim colours, 26 different diff ratios, and a variety of engines ranging from utter sh!t to mildly warm, but not stinking hot motors in regular models (SS is nothing special, just a regular Holden model).

Imagine an LS9 powered VE SS with stock PBR brakes and regular FE2 suspension! :eek: :wambulance:

Again you raise some good points Davo, and Holden may care about re-sale by trying to justify no cosmetic changes since the VE, but it hasn't actually helped re-sale, particuarly with HSV's.. I just read in Wheels about an Ex HSV owner who went to trade in his 06 Senator Skaife edition worth $88k new, and they slapped him in the face with offering him $22k ! They told him that re-sale value is $hit for HSV's because no one is buying V8's anymore!?? Huh? Suffice to say, he sold it privately for $45k. I understand that HSV are out to make money too as are Holden, but you can't say that no one is buying V8's (in HSV's case) when ALL you sell is V8's ... Whether they update the interior or not, re-sale for a mass produced Aus V8 is always going to be $hit.

As far as your W427 defense, if there are so many additional parts to it that can somehow justify the price that it sold for, then why isn't it twice as good as anything else HSV have ever made? It's marginally quicker around the track than an E1 GTS and stops a little quicker but looks exactly the same inside apart from the seats and some trim.. What else is there that makes it actually WORTH $150 k. Just because someone pays that, doesn't mean it's actually worth it or does it ?

[Uncle Tone]

As far as your W427 defense, if there are so many additional parts to it that can somehow justify the price that it sold for, then why isn't it twice as good as anything else HSV have ever made? It's marginally quicker around the track than an E1 GTS and stops a little quicker but looks exactly the same inside apart from the seats and some trim.. What else is there that makes it actually WORTH $150 k. Just because someone pays that, doesn't mean it's actually worth it or does it ?

Mrtockley, just for fun, ask Davo what the difference is in the running gear of the 150K W427 and the 85K E2 GTS with a yellow badge on the back besides the motor itself and some stress relieved diff gears :hide:

Oh yeah....the E2 has launch control and heaps of other stuff that the W427 doesn't :lol:

[mrtockley]

Mrtockley, just for fun, ask Davo what the difference is in the running gear of the 150K W427 and the 85K E2 GTS with a yellow badge on the back besides the motor itself and some stress relieved diff gears :hide:

Oh yeah....the E2 has launch control and heaps of other stuff that the W427 doesn't :lol:

UT, I'm sure the W427 is a great car and I'd happily have one in my garage tomorrow, BUT the asking price is ridiculous - when for very similar coin, you can have say a R35 GTR that WILL hold it's resale value because of it's racing pedigree. People who bought the W427 as an investment might be a little disappointed in years to come. Iconic cars like the Ford GT-HO's that are fetching $700k nowadays (which is equally ludicrous) at least have the racing history and very limited edition runs to count on. What history has the W427 got ? :confused:

[FireArc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoHi9oBXfXc

....wonder if Ford Oz would release a GT-H with 351 kW...

Sounds horn...will be interesting to hear and see the final FPV configuration

[FireArc]

Enjoy...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/56663/2010-fpv-gt-h-spied-supercharged-5lt-coyote-v8/

Apprently there is audio of the new V8 and supercharger in this article. Most of the other details are pretty well known now.

[Road Warrior]

What are those discs and instruments n shit they have got on the wheels?

[Ghia351]

What are those discs and instruments n shit they have got on the wheels?
Could be test equipment as part of DSC calibration work etc.