Fuel quality - so important

[APS Fston]

Some of you might find this interesting.

We often read "shouldn't my car make XXX amount of power?" ......this is one of the reasons why tuners sometimes struggle ( us included ! )

Just received a brand new , 9km on the clock VE L76 AFM SS for a cat back , air box and tune - at the customer's request , we're doing a "MAF" tune on this car .

As usual with new cars, the car comes straight to us with 1/2 tank of "car yard fuel"....

After the mods, we begin the tuning - even with what we consider reduced timing, we get an incredible amount of "knock retard".....

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy261/APSLuis/knock.jpg

You can see here we are commanding 21 deg, but due to the sensors picking up knock, this is being reduced by 5 deg , down to 16 deg ( and losing lotsa power in the process )

We put in 100ml of Nulon octane boost , cruised it on the dyno for a couple of minutes to let it mix in and did a second run...

Look at the difference in the knock retard line...

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy261/APSLuis/noknock.jpg

Almost no retard at all - the difference between the first and second runs was almost 15 rwkw.

[NIXON]

Wow, thats a eye opener. Dont we have some of the shittest fuel in the world, iv heard even our premium is garbage compared to other countries?

[vuss383]

Have seen this come up many times on tuned cars . Customers have had happy cars for years & use XX fuel from XX fuel station all the time & all of a sudden the car loses power ... quick scan reveals timing being pulled , tell them to just use the tank & reassess on next tank ... all good . Just goes to back the fact that we get ripped with our fuel here in Aus . It got that bad up here at 1 stage that I looked a purchasing a fuel analiser from the states that would give great detail of the major composition eg RON , MON & a few of the other components used .

Troy

[Mohit]

Would it be a good idea then to put in a bottle of octane booster in the tank of any car when being tuned? Just to be safe? Prolly won't make much of a difference if you already have 98 octane in the tank i guess?

[macca_779]

Would it be a good idea then to put in a bottle of octane booster in the tank of any car when being tuned? Just to be safe? Prolly won't make much of a difference if you already have 98 octane in the tank i guess?

Absolutely not unless you plan on running it all the time. The best thing a customer can do for a tuner is give them the car in a state that they intend to drive it at 99% of the time. And yes it does make a difference when used on top of 98

[255-LS1]

Some very interesting results there, but makes sense to me. Car yard fuel would have to be the absolute dregs.


Absolutely not unless you plan on running it all the time. The best thing a customer can do for a tuner is give them the car in a state that they intend to drive it at 99% of the time. And yes it does make a difference when used on top of 98

Thats what i did. tank of BP ultimate. But i absolutly dont see the point in getting the car tuned with octane booster in the tank, as you will most likely not be adding it every time you fill up. Tune will not be optimised to your normal running state that way.

[APS Luis]

Would it be a good idea then to put in a bottle of octane booster in the tank of any car when being tuned? Just to be safe? Prolly won't make much of a difference if you already have 98 octane in the tank i guess?


not really - you want to tune with what the customer uses in the car every day - but when you get knock at 15 deg timing , something is not right :)

[APS Luis]

Some very interesting results there, but makes sense to me. Car yard fuel would have to be the absolute dregs.



Thats what i did. tank of BP ultimate. But i absolutly dont see the point in getting the car tuned with octane booster in the tank, as you will most likely not be adding it every time you fill up. Tune will not be optimised to your normal running state that way.


and


Absolutely not unless you plan on running it all the time. The best thing a customer can do for a tuner is give them the car in a state that they intend to drive it at 99% of the time. And yes it does make a difference when used on top of 98


Agreed 100%

[Northy]

I really appreciate thread like this, it sheds light on somthing so simple. Is there some type of display unit etc that I can get and plug into my VE to see if this is happening?

Corey

[Mohit]

Thanks for answering my questions guys. Makes sense to tune it under the conditions it will be driven every day.

[macca_779]

I really appreciate thread like this, it sheds light on somthing so simple. Is there some type of display unit etc that I can get and plug into my VE to see if this is happening?

Corey

Plenty of tools available. My favourite besides EFI LIVE of course is the PLX Kiwi. Google it.

[RED R8]

The car yard fuel may be regular unleaded and very old.....not good..

[APS Luis]

The car yard fuel may be regular unleaded and very old.....not good..

Or the cheapest available ;)

[steve_t]

In your experience, do you get significantly less knock with E10 95 as opposed to normal 95?

[APS Luis]

In your experience, do you get significantly less knock with E10 95 as opposed to normal 95?

To be dead honest, we haven't yet done any testing , but I really can't see how E10/95 would have any better knock properties than normal 95 octane fuel .

Now LPG, that's a different story !

If anything, I'd expect the Ethanol in E10 to bring in extra "O2" into the mix - this is one of the reasons older ( pre 94 ) EFI cars can't cope with E85 very well.

If someone knows more, please correct me ..

[steve_t]

To be dead honest, we haven't yet done any testing , but I really can't see how E10/95 would have any better knock properties than normal 95 octane fuel .

Now LPG, that's a different story !

If anything, I'd expect the Ethanol in E10 to bring in extra "O2" into the mix - this is one of the reasons older ( pre 94 ) EFI cars can't cope with E85 very well.

If someone knows more, please correct me ..

Actually, thinking about it again, if RON is the number which relates to knock (antiknock index or whatever), then E10 95 should be the same as normal 95. Again, if someone experienced with this could let us know :goodjob:

[6Sixes6]

about car yard fuel - when i picked up my ute (SSV) by the time i had to fill it up next it was only getting just over 400klms to the full tank from the dealer. Being my first V8 i thought HOLY SH** these things are thirsty (given i wasn't driving it hard and half of it was highway driving) Haven't used anything but BP ultimate since and get 700+klms from a tank. The throttle instantly felt more responsive on the second tank :goodjob:

[blownba]

Awesome thread dude.
Good to see it all in black and white.....and red, and purple and violet and pink..... Well you see what I mean anyway.

[Highway]

To be dead honest, we haven't yet done any testing , but I really can't see how E10/95 would have any better knock properties than normal 95 octane fuel .

Now LPG, that's a different story !

If anything, I'd expect the Ethanol in E10 to bring in extra "O2" into the mix - this is one of the reasons older ( pre 94 ) EFI cars can't cope with E85 very well.

If someone knows more, please correct me ..

Have you found much/any variation with the different LPG fuel available

Mike

[APS Luis]

Have you found much/any variation with the different LPG fuel available

Mike

Even the worst LPG you get will have higher octane than PULP :)

[BennyMac]

Just received a brand new , 9km on the clock VE L76 AFM SS for a cat back , air box and tune - at the customer's request , we're doing a "MAF" tune on this car .

As usual with new cars, the car comes straight to us with 1/2 tank of "car yard fuel"....



Gee, sounds like it only was driven from just around the corner.......:confused:

When i bought my SV8 from a Holden dealership just around the corner from APS, i got in the contract that it was to be filled with BP 98 (full tank).
On pick-up, the car had the fuel light on, so off me and the used car sales guy go and me gets me full tank of BP 98 :)

Anyway.......good thread APS and good to see you posting some good info up :goodjob:

[APS Luis]

Gee, sounds like it only was driven from just around the corner.......:confused:

When i bought my SV8 from a Holden dealership just around the corner from APS, i got in the contract that it was to be filled with BP 98 (full tank).
On pick-up, the car had the fuel light on, so off me and the used car sales guy go and me gets me full tank of BP 98 :)

Anyway.......good thread APS and good to see you posting some good info up :goodjob:

Did we tune your one as well?

[BLACKVE]

I've had a bad tank of fuel once:flipoff: car ran bad idle was terrible


Now i wish there was a cheap test kit so we could check what quality of fuel were getting just to keep the BU##ERS honest as they rip us of enough:vpo:

[decoupe]

So is there any advantage in putting Octane Booster in on top of 98 after you have had your tune ?
I notice it sends your plugs a strange colour but have never really felt any gains ?

[BennyMac]

Did we tune your one as well?

Not on that particular car no, just got you to change the DF system over
from my old VX Clubby on to the new car.
Think it had been at G&D's as it already had DF headers and cut'n shut system on it.......