Can i run a Cam with a standard ve?

[skippy2000]

hey guys i have looked on here but dont seem to find any info on it.
I have a ve ss 06 model and i have a set of mufflers on it and thats pretty much it...
I was wondering if i could run this cam 224/228@112 cam and if so what sort of power / changes would i notice on the car? would i get better fuel economy etc than as it is standard?
Also will this change the life expectancy on the car? Im GUESSING that it would as i the engine will be doing alot more....
Sorry with all the stupid questions but got no idea when it comes to cams lift etc
Any reccomendations would be great....

[chev]

Best bet would be to talk to a sponsor near you for professional advice. If you know absolutly nothing, its a good start.

[JET-33]

i recommend you do a full exhaust, otr and mafless tune first. it will probably cost less and be a much better foundation.

a cam needs to be able to breathe, it needs air coming in. it could get to the point where it would be like a 1000hp turbo bolted on. sure, you can do it, but no point cos the injectors wont get the fuel in, the exhaust cant get the air out etc etc

if you want quick power with one bolt on get a supercharger kit. it will cost you though. all depends on what your future plans are as well....

good luck

[mrgasket]

Is the car auto or manual? You can run that cam its only small. It will give you a lot more power. If the car is manual i would go for a 232/234 @112 595/598 lift and expect over 300 at the wheels cam only and it will be ecomonical you wont have to put your foot down to get it to go.

[skippy2000]

thanks for all those inputs i was under the immpression i would need an exhaust to be able to let it breathe but i just wasnt sure if itd be ok or not without the exhaust...
yes it is manual and just thought a camm would be best bang for its buck... any other infor or advice would be great ...
who would you guys contact for advise i have heard russo`s are meant to be pretty good with the ve`s allthough i would love to live a bit closer to chevs as i have heard nothing but good!!! And over happy Customers

[JET-33]

thanks for all those inputs i was under the immpression i would need an exhaust to be able to let it breathe but i just wasnt sure if itd be ok or not without the exhaust...
yes it is manual and just thought a camm would be best bang for its buck... any other infor or advice would be great ...
who would you guys contact for advise i have heard russo`s are meant to be pretty good with the ve`s allthough i would love to live a bit closer to chevs as i have heard nothing but good!!! And over happy Customers

come to chevs mate, its worth the drive :)

i dont really know much about the nsw scene but the names ive seen fly around a lot a marranos, russos and sams.

[OUTAtheBloo]

Once you change the cam, you need a tune as well. So in general most people plan to do things once. Do all the bolt on things first to help get the best result down the track when you decide if changing the cam is right for you.

I had a 224/228 112lsa cam in a VU M6 LS1, very reasonable cam to drive around all day in, and i would presume even better in a 6 litre with the extra torque the cubes give you.

Bigger isn't always better, bigger often means worse fuel consumption around town...

Dan

[bush_basha]

i have a russo's cam in mine and its great, i love it, if your going to get a cam tho, get the exhaust aswell, save that bit extra, because you can do exhaust, cam, the tune with otr and you'll save on getting it tuned twice.

[Wonky]

Is the car auto or manual? You can run that cam its only small. It will give you a lot more power. If the car is manual i would go for a 232/234 @112 595/598 lift and expect over 300 at the wheels cam only and it will be ecomonical you wont have to put your foot down to get it to go.

That's a fairly big cam for an L98 - much bigger than that and he'd have to watch PTV clearances.

[macca_779]

a cam needs to be able to breathe, it needs air coming in. it could get to the point where it would be like a 1000hp turbo bolted on. sure, you can do it, but no point cos the injectors wont get the fuel in, the exhaust cant get the air out etc etc
good luck

I agree on the exhaust to a point. But keep in mind its not like they are totally chocking the engine even stock. Take my car. 260rwkw on a completely stock system with only a 220/220 cam. Very few if any stock cam LS1's have that level of power even with an exhaust. Plus in my case as I installed my cam myself with mates, its actually cheaper to do a cam than an exhaust. Still though my car is screaming out for pipes to open its potential. I'm only pointing out its not necessarily the most important thing in the world.

[macca_779]

If the car is manual i would go for a 232/234 @112 595/598 lift and expect over 300 at the wheels cam only and it will be ecomonical you wont have to put your foot down to get it to go.

Power yes.. Economical :confused: it wont be ridiculous, but it wont be great.

[macca_779]

That's a fairly big cam for an L98 - much bigger than that and he'd have to watch PTV clearances.

Shes not all that big Wonk. Plenty of bigger cams going in with far more lift no probs at all. But still you wouldn't want to go silly on the advance with it. None the less its not a good cam for an L98 anyway. Nowhere near enough split on it. Its more of an LS1 cam.

[Roonstain]

Shes not all that big Wonk. Plenty of bigger cams going in with far more lift no probs at all. But still you wouldn't want to go silly on the advance with it. None the less its not a good cam for an L98 anyway. Nowhere near enough split on it. Its more of an LS1 cam.
A few l98's running around with the old 232/234@112 pulling some decent numbers mate - still works well
Maybe not the best ever, but still good

[macca_779]

A few l98's running around with the old 232/234@112 pulling some decent numbers mate - still works well
Maybe not the best ever, but still good

Any cam works. But the fact is when you look at the ratio of inlet valve to exhaust valve and the subsequent flow characteristics, the L92 does not compliment single pattern (or close to) cams as well as a cam with identical inlet specs but far more exhaust ground in. All the rules and cams used for LS1's generally do not carry over.

[simon.w]

Is the car auto or manual? You can run that cam its only small. It will give you a lot more power. If the car is manual i would go for a 232/234 @112 595/598 lift and expect over 300 at the wheels cam only and it will be ecomonical you wont have to put your foot down to get it to go.

you'll need full exhaust, OTR and tune to get over 300rwkw ... and possibly a hotter cam.

Mine's 231/237 @ 113 ... and there's one hotter in the GM Motorsports range ... the TK (turbo killer)

[Roonstain]

you'll need full exhaust, OTR and tune to get over 300rwkw ... and possibly a hotter cam.

Mine's 231/237 @ 113 ... and there's one hotter in the GM Motorsports range ... the TK (turbo killer)
hotter cam?
If you have an L98 with full exhaust, otr, tune and 232/234@112 on XER lobes and you don't get >300rwkw then either the dyno is broken, or your tuner is a total spastic.....especially through a manual.

And if the same with a 224/228@112 on XER lobes in a manual VE - might be close on an auto though.


That all being said, rwkw figures shouldn't be the main focus - the use of the car should be - if you want to run a low 12, have a good daily driver, strip weapon, weekend warrior, etc etc.
I wanted something with a strong mid range and that would let me keep the stock stall on mine - so I went for the cam the OP is thinking of - the 224/228. Couldn't be happier.
Mine is my daily, and is AWESOME for those duties, and i hope to run a mid 12 with some decent rubber (remembering a heavy auto wagon with a fat arse driver! haha).

To answer the OP - i personally wouldnt run that cam in a standard VE - if you want it quiet, and a good daily drive etc, i think you would be a candidate for say a 218/224 or 220/220 cam - maybe even a bit smaller - will give you great power from idle, and won't be too strangled either.
Give a sponsor a call, like oztrack or someone, and have a chat about what you want out of the car.

Also, with a 224/228@112, i would say you economy may worsen, as your right foot will be as itchy as ever! haha

[VZMY06SS]

I reckon try the cam only on the stock exhaust :goodjob:
A mate of mine had to get a roadworthy on his ls1 a while ago, and had to put a standard cat back on to get it quiet enough. (Has a 228/232 cam in it).
The standard catback turned it from a screaming loud v8 into a more subtle sounding engine with an awesome note under load.
If you want something with a bit more poke, but don't want an ultra loud exhaust I would consider just a cam swap. You wouldn't make any benchmark dyno figures, but it would be something fun that wouldn't get too much cop attention (if you choose the right cam).

Steve

[SS Enforcer]

I agree on the exhaust to a point. But keep in mind its not like they are totally chocking the engine even stock. Take my car. 260rwkw on a completely stock system with only a 220/220 cam. Very few if any stock cam LS1's have that level of power even with an exhaust. Plus in my case as I installed my cam myself with mates, its actually cheaper to do a cam than an exhaust. Still though my car is screaming out for pipes to open its potential. I'm only pointing out its not necessarily the most important thing in the world.

I had a small cam in my VE to start 212 218 xfi lobes with stock pipes and it made 265 rwkw with a really fat torque curve but as soon as I put full exhaust on it made a huge difference. I didn't dyno it but SOTP says it was just about the same as a 220 220 came which made 297 rwkw on a mainline in mine with a A6. Upgraded to 224 228 and heads and jumped to 325 rwkw and car ran 119 mph .

The 6.0L doesn't need a big split at all there is lots of 220 220 and 224 228 cammed 6.0L making very good power.

cheers

[SS Enforcer]

Is the car auto or manual? You can run that cam its only small. It will give you a lot more power. If the car is manual i would go for a 232/234 @112 595/598 lift and expect over 300 at the wheels cam only and it will be ecomonical you wont have to put your foot down to get it to go.

The 224 228 cam is a fairly good sized cam for a L98 given it's big valves and you can make well over 300 at the treads with one.

Have a good look at the ls3 camshaft comparo and see what cams made best torque and power. Note how well the GM Hotcam runs as well compared to the big cams and it's only got .525 lift but makes more torque than any of them at 3000 rpm and holds it's own in the average torque graph right across the rev range.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/0911gmhtp_chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison/photo_11.html

The cam that made most torque was only running .57x lift and 225 intake valve why would you want a .600 lift camshaft and big duration cam on a streetcar .

To the OP the cam change will increase your fuel usage in traffic quite alot but on the highways it will remain pretty good . The 224 228 cam is an excellent choice.

cheers

[simon.w]

hotter cam?
If you have an L98 with full exhaust, otr, tune and 232/234@112 on XER lobes and you don't get >300rwkw then either the dyno is broken, or your tuner is a total spastic.....especially through a manual.


The dyno is not necessarily broken ... maybe it's just more accurate than some others.

My point was >300 is a big number and takes the right match of cam/tune/exhaust/OTR to achieve it.

[HYMEY]

Depending on dyno a 232-234-112 in a VE would make around 315-320 in a M6, make sure its degreed off the shelf comp cams can be out a little in some cases. I would use a cam that makes excellent power and tq from 4000rpm and carries to 6500rpm. I think there is better cams then the V2 but its still a good cam. I like the 224-228-114 on xer seams to work the best for a mid size cam.

[Mr_SS-V]

mate i was running one of sonnys smallish cams in my ve ssv and had me 295rwkw... pre exhaust... as for economy it was sitting at 22-23L per 100ks, but thats city driving.. i have just done a exhaust system and im waiting to see the results... but will be even better with a touch up tune.

[simon.w]

mate i was running one of sonnys smallish cams in my ve ssv and had me 295rwkw... pre exhaust... as for economy it was sitting at 22-23L per 100ks, but thats city driving.. i have just done a exhaust system and im waiting to see the results... but will be even better with a touch up tune.

That's seems very high consumption ... I'm getting 17-18 city driving with 231/237 @ 113

[BLACKVE]

Any cam works. But the fact is when you look at the ratio of inlet valve to exhaust valve and the subsequent flow characteristics, the L92 does not compliment single pattern (or close to) cams as well as a cam with identical inlet specs but far more exhaust ground in. All the rules and cams used for LS1's generally do not carry over.



The 6.0L doesn't need a big split at all there is lots of 220 220 and 224 228 cammed 6.0L making very good power.

cheers

Have too agree my 224/244 beats the crap out of the 224/230 i had in sedan, the inlet flows so well the exhaust needs a hand

[Mr_SS-V]

yes simon but i am talking a factory/ restricted exhaust with a cam and 3.7s

[macca_779]

I had a small cam in my VE to start 212 218 xfi lobes with stock pipes and it made 265 rwkw with a really fat torque curve but as soon as I put full exhaust on it made a huge difference. I didn't dyno it but SOTP says it was just about the same as a 220 220 came which made 297 rwkw on a mainline in mine with a A6. Upgraded to 224 228 and heads and jumped to 325 rwkw and car ran 119 mph .

The 6.0L doesn't need a big split at all there is lots of 220 220 and 224 228 cammed 6.0L making very good power.

cheers

very good power is one thing. But trust me you can make more with a wider split and not sacrifice any drivability. Its simple flow charastics of the head mate. The LS1 is balanced quite well so single pattern cams are fine. L92 heads are not like this at all so you must make it up somewhere and the best place is with more exhaust duration. I love the 220/220 cam (I have one after all) but if I had L92 heads there is no way in hell I would use it.

[skippy2000]

I reckon try the cam only on the stock exhaust :goodjob:
A mate of mine had to get a roadworthy on his ls1 a while ago, and had to put a standard cat back on to get it quiet enough. (Has a 228/232 cam in it).
The standard catback turned it from a screaming loud v8 into a more subtle sounding engine with an awesome note under load.
If you want something with a bit more poke, but don't want an ultra loud exhaust I would consider just a cam swap. You wouldn't make any benchmark dyno figures, but it would be something fun that wouldn't get too much cop attention (if you choose the right cam).

Steve

Yeah well like i said i have no idea with n/a holdens but after all your help and input im starting to learn a bit with the whole cam thing..
i Spoke to russos yesty and they have done a few cam only jobs and they come up quite well they said with a tune etc so yeah i understand the car needs to breathe and a exhaust will really open the doors to the power..
But the cops are pretty thick out my way with the whole defect thing, and i just want a better car to drive without the attention so i have been in a ve with a 224/228 114 and had headers intake etc and it was a little lumpy on idle but im sure a tuner can tune most of it out..
Im only after 260kw atw which i think ill be able to get on a safe tune...

Will this cam make it a pig before 2000rpm or will it increase over the whole rev range.
If not bring on the full exhaust and intake
thanks again for all the input

[simon.w]

yes simon but i am talking a factory/ restricted exhaust with a cam and 3.7s

Exhaust and tune will do it ... my economy has improved since I fitted varex mufflers and drive a lot of the time with them closed... BUT ... I put that down to the fact that when it's quiet, I'm less tempted to play! lol

I don't think the 3.7's would hinder economy in traffic ... anything past 4th in mine in 60 zones is too tall.

I'd love to try 3.7's ... think it would improve all round driveability

[SS Enforcer]

very good power is one thing. But trust me you can make more with a wider split and not sacrifice any drivability. Its simple flow charastics of the head mate. The LS1 is balanced quite well so single pattern cams are fine. L92 heads are not like this at all so you must make it up somewhere and the best place is with more exhaust duration. I love the 220/220 cam (I have one after all) but if I had L92 heads there is no way in hell I would use it.

I understand what you are saying Macca but I have seen 220 220 cams perform really well with the l92 heads. I have a cam with a 10* split for my ls3 stroker which should all come together in a few weeks now so I am not adverse to split cams at all.

The OP wants a mod for his daily driver and doesn't want it extreme at all just wants more bang in it. A 220 220 cam will give him lots of off idle power and pull to around 6k and retain nice street manners. But he specifically asked about the 224 228 cam which will work very well with the L92 heads I had 1 in mine and know of quite a few now that go very well . If you go too big on the exhaust you then have to move the lsa out a bit to stop the overlap , remember this is for a guy who only wants 1 mod and not a race car.

cheers

[debencha]

i've been thinking about one of thunder racings cheater camshafts.for our ve std exhuast

Thunder Racing Custom Camshaft
"LS2 CheaTR" - 215/230 .629/.592 117 LSA. Off Idle-6800 RPM Power Band. Broad power range. Works well with stock exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters. Stock like idle. Minor tuning required on automatic transmission cars. Responds very well to nitrous. Due to the fast ramp rate of this camshaft, the use of 1.8 rockers is not recommended. Comp 921 Valve Springs are highly recommended

has anyone done simular ?

[macca_779]

i've been thinking about one of thunder racings cheater camshafts.for our ve std exhuast

Thunder Racing Custom Camshaft
"LS2 CheaTR" - 215/230 .629/.592 117 LSA. Off Idle-6800 RPM Power Band. Broad power range. Works well with stock exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters. Stock like idle. Minor tuning required on automatic transmission cars. Responds very well to nitrous. Due to the fast ramp rate of this camshaft, the use of 1.8 rockers is not recommended. Comp 921 Valve Springs are highly recommended

has anyone done simular ?

Good choice.

[Wonky]

That's very similar to a Lingenfelter cam Fraser in the US recommended to me before I got an LS7 cam. Fraser said the Lingenfelter cam was coming up with some impressive results. My LS7 cam is (from memory) 211 230 .598/.598 lift (on 1.8 roller rockers, so about .550 on mine) at 119 LSA. Am very interested to see how it goes when finally installed (with new lifters, lifter buckets, valley cover etc to eliminate AFM).

[Oztrack Tuning]

We have lost count of how many 220 220 112s and 224 228 112s we have done in L98s and both work fantastic. The 220 is incredible with it, amazingly smooth at 1000rpm and has made 320rwkw in a L98 VE with good exhaust and OTR. The 224 228 112 idles a bit rougher, is a little weaker until about 3500rpm but has made 323rwkw in a A6 the other weak, Dus car with minimal head work and a Fast has made 349rwkw. Dus's car would have seen 335+ with a 220 and been a weapon at 2000rpm even.

My Stealth I and II are also good options with the Stealth II being a bit stronger up top than a 224 228 112 but idling far calmer, i wanted it to fill the need of VE owners who wanted relative calmness and power at the same time. It will eat the LS2 CheatR cam everywhere and idle only slight rougher.

[Roonstain]

We have lost count of how many 220 220 112s and 224 228 112s we have done in L98s and both work fantastic. The 220 is incredible with it, amazingly smooth at 1000rpm and has made 320rwkw in a L98 VE with good exhaust and OTR. The 224 228 112 idles a bit rougher, is a little weaker until about 3500rpm but has made 323rwkw in a A6 the other weak, Dus car with minimal head work and a Fast has made 349rwkw. Dus's car would have seen 335+ with a 220 and been a weapon at 2000rpm even.

My Stealth I and II are also good options with the Stealth II being a bit stronger up top than a 224 228 112 but idling far calmer, i wanted it to fill the need of VE owners who wanted relative calmness and power at the same time. It will eat the LS2 CheatR cam everywhere and idle only slight rougher.
I am the one who got the 323rwkw through the A6, and whilst it may be said it could be weaker than the 220 down low, it still has a hell of a lot of 'get up and go' down low, and if wanted, will light the rears up with ease.


Around 3000-3300 rpm, a beautiful rush of power hits as well, and the car becomes even crazier!

It is a great cam IMO, and allowed me to keep the stock stall (even though i may upgrade it later)

With all of that, it still retains good fuel economy - 8.xx L/100km on the hwy is a breeze.
Actually, my car with the cam tended to be more economical than my dad's 2006 VE Senator when it was stock!


Now my cam etc is with the usual bolt ons - Dus OTR, 25% UDP, Headers, cats, catback etc - so hard to say how it would go with everything standard....interesting stuff