blown 454 or N/A 502 ??

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

www.ls1tech.com/forums/texas-members/1173876-g-force-454-ls7-2010-camaro-ss-dyno-numbers.html




http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/454LS7.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/ls7engine003.jpg


looks very simalar to the ve under the bonnet

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/ls7engine017.jpg

[Daves8]

Look good... but not OTR?

Do they use them over there?

[GenReaper]

Looks good but it would nearly start pinging its head off with that sort of compression ratio on Aussie fuel.

[Hi Octane]

Looks the goods.

[gavlotic]

Look good... but not OTR?

Do they use them over there?

prob no one done a custom one for it yet. they use them over there - vettes and older camaros virtually come with a half decent one from factory ( well u can modify them to be better) and can go aftermarket. but with the gto's that were exported over there it's only recently that vararam came out with their otr version and for a while the DIY otr thing was popular over there with one guy even making a small busiiness for himself out of it.

cheers,

gav

[blown 6L chev]

i would love one of them!!!!

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

OK guys i have got the opportunity to get a BUILT blown 454 tall deck LSX WITH MY 2300 ON TOP
or a N/A 502 TALL DECK LSX and sell of the blown 376 ls3 to some one :)
witch way would YOU go AND WAY ??

[Rub]

Blown 454...

Do we really need to justify why? seriously... Blown 454.. nuff said...

[EXCESSV]

tall deck and blower = doesnt clear bonnet from what i have heard.
needs some cutting of the bonnet:confused:

[Rub]

Walkinshaw bonnet with cut outs should work :)

[Djbarnstar]

Jeezus you really do have the bug don't you!!!!

Yep 454 + 2300 = Win.

[SHANESVZSS]

blowen 454 :bow: , big CI with FI= perfection , also with the blowen 454 wouldnt it rev more free and easier compared to a na 500+ci?



ps: lol what a dilema to be in :)

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

tall deck and blower = doesn't clear bonnet from what i have heard.
needs some cutting of the bonnet:confused:

arr OK so how much taller exactly is the tall deck
as i can get some Plasticine and stick on top of the blower and see how much room i have ?

[Tre-Cool]

why bother going with the tall deck? seems like it would cause more headaches to me.

[EXCESSV]

arr OK so how much taller exactly is the tall deck
as i can get some Plasticine and stick on top of the blower and see how much room i have ?not exactly sure

mate was gonna do a LSX Tall deck with a HTV2300 and the workshop said the underneath of the bonnet would need to be cut out possibly a custom bonnet as when the engine is rocking would smack the bonnet.

that turned him off quick...so LSX + 4L whipple is now his weapon of choice

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

blowen 454 :bow: , big CI with FI= perfection , also with the blowen 454 wouldnt it rev more free and easier compared to a na 500+ci?



ps: lol what a dilema to be in :)

yes its a a pain in ars :) i cant sleep at knight:)
im not shore how good the 2300 would be on that size engine might be a bit SMALL :)might have a lot of belt trouble

[Rub]

454 LSX block with LS7 heads etc FTW :)

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

454 LSX block with LS7 heads etc FTW :)
yes i can do that
but not advisable to BOOST IT
OK N/A though there's only $100 US difference between the short and tall deck block
the assembly cost is the same so are the parts and machining depending on the heads used spaced l92
or tall deck heads but they are cathedral port my SC manifold is rectangle port

[jws]

I think the 502 would be the better choice only because of the blower selection. Now a 454 short deck LSX with ETP LS7 or Canted Valve Heads and the new Whipple 4.5L front entry twin screw blower is the stuff wet dreams are made of.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

I think the 502 would be the better choice only because of the blower selection. Now a 454 short deck LSX with ETP LS7 or Canted Valve Heads and the new Whipple 4.5L front entry twin screw blower is the stuff wet dreams are made of.

that is true but wet dreems turn to expensive night mares very quick

as we all know

i would be hesent to boost a 4.185 bore with a 4.5 lt blower
im told 4.155 is the safe max on a lsx block

[Evman]

Go a 402 and the whipple with some real boost going in.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

:bawl::bawl::bawl:
the clearance i have at the moment from the top of the 2300 to the under side of the bonnet sound proofing is 22mm and the clearance from the windscreen cowl is 25mm
the tall deck is supposed to be 25mm taller so it would hit big time with engine rock
with out some mods

[SVNLTR]

that is true but wet dreems turn to expensive night mares very quick

as we all know

i would be hesent to boost a 4.185 bore with a 4.5 lt blower
im told 4.155 is the safe max on a lsx block

From a piston point of view or bore or stroke point of view?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

From a piston point of view or bore or stroke point of view?

from the sleeve thickness that is left after 4.185
bore
and head gasket sealing surface
im told from HKE
thats with more then 10psi

[psykor8]

I wish i had a hard decision like this to make :eyes:

[SVNLTR]

from the sleeve thickness that is left after 4.185
bore
and head gasket sealing surface
im told from HKE
thats with more then 10psi

Interesting-

You would think that the recommended 4.250 from gm was well beyond safe at 4.185 and while sticking a strong piston or a custom made piston with a nice ring stack

personally i would stick with a 400-427 with fi--

[davus]

Have you seen running on empty?

If so, why are you asking this question?

If not, hire it, and stop asking this question :)

Blown 454

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6139/jizzed.jpg

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

yes mate i saw it 3 times
watched it two days ago again :)

[VZMY06SS]

I like the idea of less cubes but with more boost personally. I'd be looking at something like a strong 408 with ETP heads and a strong blower. 454 cubes blown seems like overkill, especially if it is going to affect the reliability of the combo.

Steve

[Veloce]

I may be biast however go for a drive in an N/A car with some power and you may find your self faced with a dilemma.

Although if its your every day driver then FI maybe the way to go.

[LSXMAD]

from the sleeve thickness that is left after 4.185
bore
and head gasket sealing surface
im told from HKE
thats with more then 10psi

Hmmm. I would have thought that you would be right . He is talking about the short deck ?

[ls2GTS]

yes the lsx tall deck and blower wont clear as i was gonna go the tall deck myself but i didnt wanna cut the bonnet up so went lsx iron block instead

[lyle]

is a 502 still a small block?

[SS Enforcer]

I would have thought you could get some serious HP out of a NA 502 setup without stressing it too much.


Doesn't the blown ls3 do it for you anymore Bob.

cheers

[jws]

If not a 454, what about a 440 (438). 4.125 bore, 4.1 inch stroke. Plenty of aftermarket components out there for this setup. An LSX block with a 4.125" bore can surely handle some serious boost and you can still bolt on a pair of big cfm LS7 style heads. A 3.4L-4.5L Whipple @ 1.5bar on a 440 would have to make enough power to please just about anyone I would imagine

[Blown 454 AWD]

Not sure how the 2500 would handle even 440, looks like it just coped with 427 on recent trials

I to prefer a blower, these Turbo things are a young mans toy, gettin too old to stop and scrape my eyeballs off the rear screen everytime I hit 2500 rpm.

Cheers

Steve

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

If not a 454, what about a 440 (438). 4.125 bore, 4.1 inch stroke. Plenty of aftermarket components out there for this setup. An LSX block with a 4.125" bore can surely handle some serious boost and you can still bolt on a pair of big cfm LS7 style heads. A 3.4L-4.5L Whipple @ 1.5bar on a 440 would have to make enough power to please just about anyone I would imagine

yes you are wright the lsx 434 short deck will take big boost
the sky is the limit i was told and that is what they wont to do for me
but it really not about the hp for me as the blown 376 has enough for every day use
its the BLOWN 454 bit i really wont like having you hart set on a Rolex watch and end with an omega both tell the time and the omega looks good BUT its not a Rolex if you know what im geting at

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Hmmm. I would have thought that you would be right . He is talking about the short deck ?

yes he was and will only go 4.185 on the tall deck as well with 4.5 stroke for 502 N/A only

it does make you wounder about the GM 4.240 limit ?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

is a 502 still a small block?

yes it is but in the tall deck version

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

I would have thought you could get some serious HP out of a NA 502 setup without stressing it too much.


Doesn't the blown ls3 do it for you anymore Bob.

cheers

hi mate
it wont turn the tyres at idle LOL :):)

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Not sure how the 2500 would handle even 440, looks like it just coped with 427 on recent trials

I to prefer a blower, these Turbo things are a young mans toy, gettin too old to stop and scrape my eyeballs off the rear screen everytime I hit 2500 rpm.

Cheers

Steve

YES I cant seam to get to much info on that at the moment ??
so was one of the reason i wanted to stay with big cubs so i could just run it N/A if the 2300 wont do the job i dont wont to have try to over drive it to much as i can see a lot of belt and heat problems

[jws]

yes you are wright the lsx 434 short deck will take big boost
the sky is the limit i was told and that is what they wont to do for me
but it really not about the hp for me as the blown 376 has enough for every day use
its the BLOWN 454 bit i really wont like having you hart set on a Rolex watch and end with an omega both tell the time and the omega looks good BUT its not a Rolex if you know what im geting at

Well to me it sound like you have to choose which option sounds cooler/branging rights. Blown 454 vs 502, at the end of the day both will haul ass. Personally I thing "Blown 454" has a very american muscle sound/feel about it vs "502" everyone straight away thinks - raw power. Keep us posted on what you choose.

[DAVESS-V]

mmmm 502ci... but 454 is still bloody tough. Good luck with this decision.. :)

[jws]

Looks good but it would nearly start pinging its head off with that sort of compression ratio on Aussie fuel.

I would disagree about the "pinging its head off". 11.4 isnt that high in an LS series motors. Depending on the dynamic compression of the motor and octane rating of the fuel (pump fuel ie 98) you can go well past 11.4:1.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Well to me it sound like you have to choose which option sounds cooler/bragging rights. Blown 454 vs 502, at the end of the day both will haul ass. Personally I thing "Blown 454" has a very american muscle sound/feel about it vs "502" everyone straight away thinks - raw power. Keep us posted on what you choose.

yes i agree on blown 454 as you have a bit of both camps

[kameleon]

id prefer the blown option over the big cube n/a. more flexible imo.

[ls2GTS]

hey mate i was originally gonna get the tall deck block and go a 508 N/a myself but that was also gonna need the bonnet cutting due to manifold type and even with a blower on the tall deck u will need to modify the bonnet. which is why i have turned away and have gona the lsx block with a blower to keep it all under the factory bonnet :) either way mate its gonna be an awsome machine :goodjob:

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

well it look like some doubts on weather the 2300 would handle the job ?

[SVNLTR]

well it look like some doubts on weather the 2300 would handle the job ?

Listen if you don't care about the power and just want a 454 with a 2300 that's cool

it will do the job and it will have torque and power also-more then 90% of the ls crowd out their-

if you want to race it and stuff the 2300 will get killed by the 454-the engine is big-

big engines need lots of air just like a fat kid needs 3 hamburgers instead of one-

Someone can prove me wrong and show me some results and data if their has been any testing....wether its blower combo or a single turbo job with those cubes on a ls engine or even the normal sbc stuff............................

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

no i dont want to drag or race it, its just an every day driver

[SVNLTR]

no i dont want to drag or race it, its just an every day driver

You have answered your own question or thread

Do the hood mods-make clearance and do new pipes and start driving-

[neaty383]

Im almost certain the 2300 wont support this. I have a stroked LS3 (stroked to 427ci) and dyno runs have confirmed that the 2300 it right at its peak. I'm already looking at the 3.4l whipple so is AMR8 is after 454+, and want it blown, definitely go something bigger than a 2300.

(not saying here I dont like the 2300 - great unit, but in applications bigger than 427ci I don't think its appropriate).

[BlueG8GT]

Someone made the comment about having an Omega vs. Rolex. If this is the case then why hasn't the LS9, LSA, or even a Katech 427 with the TVS 2300 on it been mentioned yet? For a daily driver I don't think you could beat stuffing either the LS9 or LSA into it.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Im almost certain the 2300 wont support this. I have a stroked LS3 (stroked to 427ci) and dyno runs have confirmed that the 2300 it right at its peak. I'm already looking at the 3.4l whipple so is AMR8 is after 454+, and want it blown, definitely go something bigger than a 2300.

(not saying here I dont like the 2300 - great unit, but in applications bigger than 427ci I don't think its appropriate).

thanks for that

could you tell me what psi you are geting and what is your actual blower in put shaft spinning at??
pm me if you like

this an interesting dispute as i have contacted magna charger in the US about there tvs 2300 same body as the htv2300 they recon NO WORRIES to spin it up to 20,000 or 22,000 and it would support a 454 easy ??
harrop in the US on the other hand are DOUBTFULL
IT COULD handle the 454
and recon 17,000 is the limit
harrop in OZ wont even answer my emails :)
SO I GUESS its try and see :confused:

another opinion i got was it would do a stock 454 with stock cam and small exhaust
but not a big cam headers or exhaust

whats a wipple worth $$

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Someone made the comment about having an Omega vs. Rolex. If this is the case then why hasn't the LS9, LSA, or even a Katech 427 with the TVS 2300 on it been mentioned yet? For a daily driver I don't think you could beat stuffing either the LS9 or LSA into it.

you are missing the point blown 454 CI is the rolex
376 CI in what ever wraper ls9 or ls3 is the omega :)

[BlueG8GT]

you are missing the point blown 454 CI is the rolex
376 CI in what ever wraper ls9 or ls3 is the omega :)

The LS9 uses a different casting process which makes it stronger than the standard LS3. It also has titanium internals which will support a decent amount more than the stock 638 hp. I guess I'm seeing the LS9 as the rolex and the 454 as the omega. To each his own.

[neaty383]

thanks for that

could you tell me what psi you are geting and what is your actual blower in put shaft spinning at??
pm me if you like

this an interesting dispute as i have contacted magna charger in the US about there tvs 2300 same body as the htv2300 they recon NO WORRIES to spin it up to 20,000 or 22,000 and it would support a 454 easy ??
harrop in the US on the other hand are DOUBTFULL
IT COULD handle the 454
and recon 17,000 is the limit
harrop in OZ wont even answer my emails :)
SO I GUESS its try and see :confused:

another opinion i got was it would do a stock 454 with stock cam and small exhaust
but not a big cam headers or exhaust

whats a wipple worth $$

AMR8 - only just saw this posting. I'm thinking of following a similar path to you. I'm bored with my stroked LS3 (427ci) with a 2300 and was in the middle of getting ready for a Whipple 3.4 upgrade but am now starting to see the light with a LSX 454.

I was aiming for 1000fwhp and I'd need to get to 17psi with the stroked LS3 - my fear is that thats getting towards the upper end of structural stability.

I've been quoted $14K fitted for a whipple 3.4 - thats a full kit.

The LSX 454 looks the bit - wouldnt need to replace the cam, connies nor crank - pistons would probably need a change.

And, you're at about 470fwkw before you even start any playing around.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

got a quote from HKS before the $drop for $15k US
for a lsx 454 COMPLEAT running engine with big heads fast 105 inlet NW TB ROLLER ROCKERS forged pistons cam of choice hd oil pump ect ect guaranteed 850hp NA
they did say they would not guarantee it boosted over 7lb

[pink_bits]

mate if u need a motor pm me as i can hook you up with LME in the states Bryne is the man.....

[harey]

Looks good but it would nearly start pinging its head off with that sort of compression ratio on Aussie fuel.

Australia has higher octane petrol than the US?? :confused:

Pretty sure there premium is 95 and ours is 98.

[heavyduty1340]

Here in W.A. we get premium in both 95 and 98 octane :confused:

[harey]

Here in W.A. we get premium in both 95 and 98 octane :confused:

Yes but the quote I was referring too suggested the Australia has lower octane fuel to the US.

Highest Octane Petrol in Australia - 98
Highest Octane Petrol in Australia - 95

I dont really care what denominations of octane we have, just what is the highest available at the bowser.

[1R8_HSV]

Bit of a thread dig but

1: What road did you go down?
2: Have read some articles on US forums about people blowing up LSX454's by applying boost, because they are not designed for it? Too big a bore creating inadequate wall thickness. What's your take on this?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

no i havent heard any thing about 454 with fi
got a link
im stll running the 376 on 10 psi

[1R8_HSV]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1378599-boosted-gmpp-lsx-454-cylinder-cracks-like-egg-shell.html

The general concencus (after wading through all the bs) seems to be that the 4.185 bore doesn't leave enough cylinder wall to handle boost.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1378599-boosted-gmpp-lsx-454-cylinder-cracks-like-egg-shell.html

The general consensus (after wading through all the bs) seems to be that the 4.185 bore doesn't leave enough cylinder wall to handle boost.

thanks for the link
interesting read Dr Myer must be the only one that thinks they are ok to fi
i couldn't get a reputable engine builder to build me one
spoke to RED and a few others he recommended they all said you wont have enough wall thickness for fi on a short deck
tall deck with smaller bore no worries
i might leave it as a 376 and forge it with more boost 14 psi ?
what is the 2300 (rely ably no belt slip )capable of with that ci ?

it would have more hp then a N/A 454 and be a lot cheeper as i have most of the bits

[1R8_HSV]

thanks for the link
interesting read Dr Myer must be the only one that thinks they are ok to fi
i couldn't get a reputable engine builder to build me one
spoke to RED and a few others he recommended they all said you wont have enough wall thickness for fi on a short deck
tall deck with smaller bore no worries
i might leave it as a 376 and forge it with more boost 14 psi ?
what is the 2300 (rely ably no belt slip )capable of with that ci ?

it would have more hp then a N/A 454 and be a lot cheeper as i have most of the bits

Is the tall deck a direct fit? I know with a top mount there isn't enough under bonnet clearance, but other then that...

[PSI 364]

i might leave it as a 376 and forge it with more boost 14 psi ?
what is the 2300 (rely ably no belt slip )capable of with that ci ?

I am running 13psi with no slip on a 364ci combo with my HTV2300, also seriously considering forging my 6.0 with the dollar so good its very tempting.

Have you seen Fraser's 390ci combos in the states ?? insane value for money atm.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Is the tall deck a direct fit? I know with a top mount there isn't enough under bonnet clearance, but other then that...

not sure about NA probably not with a sheet metal manifold ect
i did mesure mine up and the blower would stick up through the bonnet a bit AND ALL SO IT WOUNT FIT UNDER THE COWLING on ve anyway

they tryed to talk me in to lowering the engine down in the rails a bit

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

I am running 13psi with no slip on a 364ci combo with my HTV2300, also seriously considering forging my 6.0 with the dollar so good its very tempting.

Have you seen Fraser's 390ci combos in the states ?? insane value for money atm.


no i haven't got a link ??
thanks

can you tighten the rear belt with the blower on the car it looks like it would be possible with a bit of swearing and shit
what is the correct procedure??
might nip mine up if i can do it on the car its never been done from new
THANKS

[PSI 364]

With enough swearing it could be done on a VT-VZ ! They do sit a fair bit more back under the firewall on the VE's though don't they ??

check out the US LS1tech forums and search for AES 390, purpose built for boost a few have been using them with great results.

I am looking at just the rotating assembly, PM Fraser on here for more info.

[Big C*nt]

ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1414528-454-inches-turbocharged-badness.html

[boggers007]

Never seen anything on the short block being FI, i know nelson racing do a tall deck twin turbo set up punching out 1650hp which shows the tall deck is the way to go if you dont wanna be picking bits up off the floor.

[SirNemesis]

AES 390 is hard to beat for the money. I'm running one, although in an LS2 block so it is a little thin in the sleeves, but seems to be holding any abuse I can throw at it. This in an iron block would be tough as nails.

[1R8_HSV]

ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1414528-454-inches-turbocharged-badness.html

This is a tall deck block yes? So they got to 454 cubes using a longer stroke and therefore smaller bore and therefore more cylinder wall integrity. Also it is RHS not the LSX in question (not sure exactly what th differences are).

Cheers

Ben

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

ones is iron one is aly

[ls2 cruiser]

Bob, if you forge your ls3, you may as well stroke it to 4". Crankshaft is about $800- 900 for a callies 4340. Then you have 416 ci or so. A definite screamer. Bore it as little as possible if you put forged pistons in. You might clean up the bore at 4.070" - .005" over. Cheers Russ

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

hows yours going now russ?