Powercruise: Disabled driver not allowed to drive

[2ajmanvell82]

I went to Eastern Creek Powercruise today with a few mates and cars. I am a Paraplegic after an accident 18months ago on my dirtbike. after hospital and rehab and not being able to work again or ride my bikes, i put my money from them into my other passion, cars. I rang about it about a month ago to find out if it would be fine for me to drive as my mates were driving and a group were going and to see if facilities would b ok. I arrived there this morning after alot of work on the car some new semi-slicks for the event and signed on etc.... they said how great it was to see wat i was doing, then rang to see if briefing could come down stairs for me they then said that i was not allowed to enter the event or go in any cars!!!!! After travelling 250km's and everything else... as some guy at darwin had had a crash in a hand control car and hurt himself(compared to how many able bodies throwing it away???) me and my wife and mates, even the scrutineers and other people around could not believe wat they were saying to our faces!!!! They said i would maybe b able to enter next year if they see how much experience i have!!! After my accident my licence was taken from me and had to go through the whole licencing again at a cost of $1600 then convert my car at a cost of $8000 and this is now how i drive and am licenced, now to be told i can't enter a driving event which is just a cruise(when i've done a track day at wakefield park!!) after all the other things i'm un able to do. F@#K Powercruise and the organisers they have F*cked mine and my wifes wkd and put a dampener on wat i can do in the future!!! ****ING DISCRIMINATING!!!! I Wanted to punch some1 and couldn't do shit about it!!!!

[UTESRULE]

everyone should of protested unbeivlable

[afmss]

that sucks big time,you have your licence that should be all you require,i feel for you mate,hope they at least refund your entry

[vy2ttr]

Thats just wrong mate !!:vpo: You could probably drive better than half of them anyway !!!!

[JT]

That is very poor form on the organiser's behalf especially as you rang to confirm you are able to enter.

[Peter B - CV8]

Mate,
Firstly, let me say that you have displayed a tremendous positive attitude in doing all the things required to "get back on the road" after your life changing accident. Kudos to you:goodjob:
What type of event is the Powercruise & what does it entail ???? I've heard of them - but have no idea what they are about.
Sounds pretty slack that they had such a late change of mind & essentially ruined your whole weekend - especially considering the fact that I'm sure you enquired earlier & would have signed waivures etc (absolving them of any liabillity). So, provided their facilities are up to scratch (ie can't be sued for negligence/contributory negligence), they should have had no problems in letting you compete.
You don't hear too many good stories about the mob who operate Eastern Creek.....................

[RICECOOKER]

mate its bloody disgracfull, i would maybe making a few phone calls to people of interest ie. ray hadley, ACA, TT.

if your licensed to drive on the roads in nsw then whats the differance, good on you for doing somethign about getting a license and not sitting around doing nothing.

SHAME ON YOU GUP!!!!

[v8dude78]

mate its bloody disgracfull, i would maybe making a few phone calls to people of interest ie. ray hadley, ACA, TT.



+1 here
Thats just disgraceful :flipoff:

[cnnonyx]

Thats bullsh*t - cant believe it.

[UTESRULE]

should make up a petition of digust and send it away

[ls1vt209]

Sorry to hear Anthony. That is bloody piss poor on the organisers behalf. Did you speak ever get the persons name who told you originally that you could attend the event and drive? If I were you I would be kicking up the biggest stink about it, that is poor form, for you guys to travel there and then be told you cannot enter.

I for one will boycott next years event if there is no apology forthcoming to you and your wife, or this is not rectified in some way.

As above mate if you make one I will sign it and most of the guys down here would too I imagine.

Catch you soon

Nige

[2ajmanvell82]

Mate,
Firstly, let me say that you have displayed a tremendous positive attitude in doing all the things required to "get back on the road" after your life changing accident. Kudos to you:goodjob:
What type of event is the Powercruise & what does it entail ???? I've heard of them - but have no idea what they are about.
Sounds pretty slack that they had such a late change of mind & essentially ruined your whole weekend - especially considering the fact that I'm sure you enquired earlier & would have signed waivures etc (absolving them of any liabillity). So, provided their facilities are up to scratch (ie can't be sued for negligence/contributory negligence), they should have had no problems in letting you compete.
You don't hear too many good stories about the mob who operate Eastern Creek.....................

It's basically just a cruise around the track with ya mates but not full on like track day laps just cruise then have slow down points, then there's off street drags up the hill on main straight etc that i would have went in, nothing super serious!!! I've been there in a car before i was injured! And yes what if any1 crashes and gets hurt if its big enough crash every1 should be checked by medic.


mate its bloody disgracfull, i would maybe making a few phone calls to people of interest ie. ray hadley, ACA, TT.

if your licensed to drive on the roads in nsw then whats the differance, good on you for doing somethign about getting a license and not sitting around doing nothing.

SHAME ON YOU GUP!!!!

Well thats it wats the difference just coz 1 bloke had an accident!! does every able body get penalised for every mistake made by drivers?? I seen a few cars run off track today and plenty idiots around pits and family oriented areas!!!!

Just another slap in the face!!!
I don't care who's problem it was it's discrimination!!!!
how would they feel, had they hurt them self and everything they are involved with, they not be allowed to do again!!??

[ATOMIC 8]

Sorry to here that mate, that's really f**ked! Having been to powercruise the last couple of years i can say that there are many able-bodied people there that really shouldn't even behind the wheel of barina let alone the high powered cars they were getting around in, so as far as judging you for being disabled, that's just bullshit!:flipoff:

[steve_t]

Yup. Sounds like some idiot has had a knee-jerk reaction to the guy in Darwin and made a bad call. It definitely comes down to discrimination and you could rightly complain to the Human Rights Commission

www.hreoc.gov.au/about/legislation/index.html

[The_Plague]

Damn mate, that's a dog act if I have ever heard of one, I am with ls1vt209, either they apologise and promise it wont happen again or I will also refrain from attending the event now or at any point in the future, I hope there are plenty of other people who also can see what is very wrong with an individual or organisation willing to treat people like this.

[2ajmanvell82]

Sorry to hear Anthony. That is bloody piss poor on the organisers behalf. Did you speak ever get the persons name who told you originally that you could attend the event and drive? If I were you I would be kicking up the biggest stink about it, that is poor form, for you guys to travel there and then be told you cannot enter.

I for one will boycott next years event if there is no apology forthcoming to you and your wife, or this is not rectified in some way.

As above mate if you make one I will sign it and most of the guys down here would too I imagine.

Catch you soon

Nige

Hey Nige,
I didn't get the origional Girls name but the Woman i spoke to today said there's only 1 other and the thing is if i can't drive put it in the SUP REGS!!!!
Nothing we could say or do could change it. She said maybe depending on how much experience etc i have had driving it they mite let me drive next year! I got my f@#king licence and drive everyday and do track days!!! Any dickhead with a licence can rock up and drive with no idea!!

[ls1vt209]

Thats crap, they let people who are unlicensed and have lost there licence due to driving like idiots on the road, then there are P platers who have had little to no experience, who are allowed to drive like idiots there. I am sure they would even justify it to the politicians that it is a safe way for people to get experience. What is the difference, none.

It is a joke.

[VE SS Wagon]

That's disgraceful really... You phonedup before hand to make sure then travel and get organised for it all and they tell you you can't, THATS F***ED !! If you start a petiotion of disgust or somethin I will sign it.

[xcelr8]

i agree its blatant discrimination and it was a bad call, now do something about it. call powercruise on 0407 172 413 and have gup give you a call and see if you can sort out some financial compensation ( your entry travel accomodation etc ) and give him the opportunity to make amends. maybe he could organize for you and your car/companions to be taken to the next powercruise event. that would be my pick....everyones a winner there. you get to have your time on track and gup gets to right a wrong( and gets some good p.r. while hes at it) and if that fails i suppose that others here have put forward the other alternatives. having 2 mates in chairs that drive hi-powered cars im hoping that you resolve this issue as it a blight on a otherwise good event.
good luck with it all and let us know what happens. im sure this will be a topic of interest for all of us.
cheers rick

[Souljah]

That is piss poor form.

[HRTSEN]

Hi

I would be making them pay for your loss financially, you have allready paid for this emotinally on your road to recovery.

I would be so pissed at this if it had happened to me....

Someone needs to be taught a BIG lesson here.

regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

[2ajmanvell82]

Yeah and thats the thing i did speak to some1 beforehand but the point is i shouldn't even have to if i've got my road licence and have for 10yrs!! I should only have to check the venue be disabled friendly!! Which also shouldn't b a problem these days!!! They should have ramp access onto roof!! When my Wife and I parked the car beside us parked and they had a young disabled boy around 10 and obviously they were there to look at cars and they were intrigued by my wife getting the chair and me getting out of the drivers seat and seen what i had set up for me to tell them i couldn't drive in the event as i was disabled!!! I was like a bit of inspiration for this kid but then to be like don't bother dreaming about coming to drive in a car event like this!!! The parents couldn't believe it but weren't surprised as we already have so many hurdles that don't work out for us!!!

[foakley]

Shame on you powercruise :vpo: :flipoff:

Sorry to hear mate, that's a very low thing they have done!!

[Evman]

So if an "able bodied" entrant crashes and hurts him/herself does the event get cancelled seeing as there wont be anyone allowed to drive?

I'd rip into them mate.

[ls1vt209]

Was there not a few crashs over the weekend anyway, does that mean those people will be penalised in the future????

I am sure 1 well know car will be back next year that was involved in an incident over the weekend.

[hyperss82]

very sad, its bad enough that u have too live with your disability everday, let alone get denied entry to 1 of the only enjoyments you still have. all the best with getting actions against powercruise

[ratter]

What a pi55 off!

was it the event organiser or the venue management the ones that would not let enter?

[VNV8]

thats a bit shit, if the authorities have given you a license to drive who are these idiots to say you can't? Why not go to the media with it, im sure powercruise would love the attention!

then again they'll probably turn it into an anti-hoon story and try and have the event cancelled permanently. maybe stick with the motoring media instead of the mainstream knobs.

[GHZ28]

http://www.antidiscrimination.gov.au/

this should be your first port of call, then you can decide if it is NSW or Federal you need to proceed via.

Garry

[BADTMPRD]

Gup needs a firm talking too......:vpo:

[2ajmanvell82]

Thanks for the feedback and support guys very much appreciated!!! Hard nite angry trying sleep and still can't believe it happened. To come hom,e and tell my parents i couldn't drive after them seeing everything i been through and try to do and my Dad and i building everything on the car and putting our time together into it as something special that we've accomplished they were shattered and angry to say the least. I will hopefully b forwarding an e-mail and hopefully a link to this forum if i can work that out?? LOL, to a person that i think has something to do with one of the media affairs. My car controls etc are engineered for me to drive with so i'm not happy!! Thanks heaps every1!!!!

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/DSC03869.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/DSC01320.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/020-2.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/WakefieldPark048.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/019-1.jpg

[jono0309]

I would tear them a new assh...I can't believe they have the cheek to deny you when you put some much effort into it all. A ring to the anti-discrimination group and they will be sorry. Stay strong! Cheers

[MRLXSS]

I'd be furious if i was you.

I'd be onto the anti-discrimination mob, a current affair and also a lawyer! If that isn't the most blatant form of discrimination i don't know what is.

Stick with it mate, and stick it up them!

[FAVSSS]

Good on ya mate.You obviously have had to deal with enough s#*! inyour life without having to put up with this sort of garbage.I hope you make them pay for this blatant case of discrimination

[MARRA]

Whats the latest? Have you contacted Powercruise and discussed getting some sort of compensation?

[XUV]

http://www.antidiscrimination.gov.au/

this should be your first port of call, then you can decide if it is NSW or Federal you need to proceed via.

Garry

nup , fcuk 'em , go straight to '' today tonight '' or ACA , shame their collective arses .

The worst thing is , you phoned up to inquire about wheelchair accessibility ,

and this would have triggered an uninformed , ignorant and uneducated view of your status .

[2ajmanvell82]

Hey guys i'm not happy about it for me or future entrants/disabled in general not for this meet or any meet. Stuff calling them to sort it for next year the wkd is over they have done what they have done my wkd has been ****ed and my dignity knocked just a little more and the wonder why i try to move on and pour everything i have into my car if i'm not allowed to use it!! i have a contact number for a media personality so i'm just going to see if they are interested to hear what happened and just try to make people aware of the things we have to deal with and that its not fair people not be able to do something they are licenced for.

[2ajmanvell82]

I am also unaware if it was the sole event organiser or track owners problem but they would both know and decided so if it were the track owner the event organiser should have had something to say about it etc... so they can both take the blame for it and both realise that it is wrong and discriminating!!!

[Brandonsdad]

That sucks to hear mate. Im betting you wouldnt want to change your cars too often, considering the amount of extras you need to be able to drive it.

At least you get to do what a lot of us cant do, and thats park right out the front of every single shopping centre in Australia. Thats discrimination against the rest of us. But Im sure if given the chance you wish you didnt have that so-called 'privelege'.

[feistl]

Without trying to insult or annoy anyone, have you considered they were unable to let you on the track due to public liability insurance?

I mean, if their insurance doesn't cover disabled drivers... I can understand why they wont let you on the circuit.

Also, it might be worth trying to take the mature approach and speak to someone higher up. Getting angry and swearing doesn't do much for your case. There might be legitimate (not necessarily morally correct) reasons why they couldnt let you on the track.

Also, before everyone starts accusing me... My brother had severe Muscular Dystrophy, and progressed from a very healthy 8 year old kid to disabled by 14, to a paraplegic by 17 before dying aged 19. I do know what your going through, and i understand what this situation is like (i have many many examples of similar situations) however there are always 2 sides to a story.

While the facts you've presented clearly show they are at fault, negatively damaging thier reputation without facts could result in a law case against you.

Again, by no means am i saying your wrong, or what they did was ok... Im just saying get all the facts/reasons before involving the media.

Cheers,

[steve_t]

Are insurance companies allowed to discriminate against disabled drivers that have their licence? Surely not. I guess we'll see. I'd suggest that any company that didn't want to insure them would simply make premiums ridiculously high but to outright refuse insurance on the basis of disability (especially when the driver is licenced with a vehicle modified to his needs) is surely another breach of human rights

[GHZ28]

It is for the insurance, litigation and liability reasons that I gave the Anti-discrimination Commission contact info. People there will be well aware of the rights of both parties and in an unbiased position to advise on means of legal recourse. Getting the right advice from them costs nothing, and does not preclude you from involving the media, which I believe you should do. But get your rights and responsibilities sorted out too.

gh

[XUV]

At least you get to do what a lot of us cant do, and thats park right out the front of every single shopping centre in Australia. Thats discrimination against the rest of us. But Im sure if given the chance you wish you didnt have that so-called 'privelege'.

you're trying to be funny right ???

As if only it was every single shopping centre and not to mention the low life bottom feeders who think they can park there '' only to dash in ''

they're the ones who should have their cars crushed or their spines , their choice .

[HSVGTS215i]

Pathetic performance by the event organisers to say the least. Seems to be a common trend these days of putting idiots in charge of motorsport events.

On another note Im interested to know how those controls work ie the ring over the steering wheel etc if you wouldnt mind explaining.

Cheers.

[matthewfnorbert]

yes keen to know how your controls work and feel?
looks like a nice job too!

[Wonky]

Are insurance companies allowed to discriminate against disabled drivers that have their licence? Surely not. I guess we'll see. I'd suggest that any company that didn't want to insure them would simply make premiums ridiculously high but to outright refuse insurance on the basis of disability (especially when the driver is licenced with a vehicle modified to his needs) is surely another breach of human rights

As a fellow disabled driver the information I have from my insurance company is that as long as you have a driving license (accompanied by relevant doctor's certification/approval where appropriate) that's all they want. They cannot increase premium or even make a note on your policy. Vic Roads send me out an official form every 12 months or so that my doctor has to fill out and send back to them. If any issues I then have to do a full driving assessment.

[mmciau]

Go to the Anti-discrimination Authority as a matter of urgency.

Get the matter sorted.



Mike

[Wonky]

you're trying to be funny right ???

As if only it was every single shopping centre and not to mention the low life bottom feeders who think they can park there '' only to dash in ''

they're the ones who should have their cars crushed or their spines , their choice .

I certainly hope he was too XUV!! :mad: I'd gladly go back to parking my cars as far away from the shops where nobody else is parked if I could!! Even though I can park right outside, by the time I extricate myself from my car, get my walking frame out and stagger in (some days it's really difficult to even manage that) able bodied people who do park where I used to have easily beaten me in..............

[2ajmanvell82]

Without trying to insult or annoy anyone, have you considered they were unable to let you on the track due to public liability insurance?

I mean, if their insurance doesn't cover disabled drivers... I can understand why they wont let you on the circuit.

Also, it might be worth trying to take the mature approach and speak to someone higher up. Getting angry and swearing doesn't do much for your case. There might be legitimate (not necessarily morally correct) reasons why they couldnt let you on the track.

Also, before everyone starts accusing me... My brother had severe Muscular Dystrophy, and progressed from a very healthy 8 year old kid to disabled by 14, to a paraplegic by 17 before dying aged 19. I do know what your going through, and i understand what this situation is like (i have many many examples of similar situations) however there are always 2 sides to a story.

While the facts you've presented clearly show they are at fault, negatively damaging thier reputation without facts could result in a law case against you.

Again, by no means am i saying your wrong, or what they did was ok... Im just saying get all the facts/reasons before involving the media.

Cheers,

Hi this dearly saddens me aswell!! Yes i have thought about ways and avenues and trust me i was very refrained and as you don't know me i was almost too polite about it. It is an enter at your own risk and nothing is stated in the sup regs!!! If i was to incur further injury it would be like any other person. They could not even present to me any documentation or Person and just said maybe if they could see how experienced you are but for today they aren't going to allow me at their decision! Why run a meeting where every maniac can go out there with their mates hanging out the car with video cameras doing burnouts and i a legitimate licensed driver be refused to even enter and cruise the track!!! Very Very sad in your case aswell but i'm not just coming out here swearing trying to make a big scene its the last thing i wanted to do but after not being able to do anything about a no good excuse what else can i do but try and get something done about it?

[HEKYEH]

It sounds like a pretty good case of discrimination.

I would suggest (as some others have already) that you contact a lawyer that specialises in Anti-Discrimination law. I am sure there are plenty out there.

You will also have to consider what you want to achieve from any potential legal matter. Money? Standing up for your rights?

I spent the last 6-7 months taking my former employer to court for a type of discrimination - it's a long and stressful process and makes u often doubt whether what u r doing is the right thing...but at the end of the day u have to stick up for what u believe in is the right and decent thing.

Best of luck with whatever u chose to do...

:)

[2ajmanvell82]

Well my Wife works at a Solicitors and i will be following their advice!!! As for the parking, try finding a vacant one and one that i can have enough room to have the door fully open for the wheelchair and somewhere to get up the gutter and how quickly you can rush when its raining to assemble a chair set it up try and throw 80-90kgs from your seat to your chair, drag ya legs in and go then do that allday!!! i don't have abs so gotta drag body everywhere and lift ya legs! It's a real priveledge!

And yes as far as having the disability and controls etc they don't increase your premium and can't discriminate against u!

For those that are interested in my car the over-ring is a fly by wire electronic throttle then the brake to the right is just mechanical push withfold up throttle peddle so can't accidently hit it!

[2ajmanvell82]

It sounds like a pretty good case of discrimination.

I would suggest (as some others have already) that you contact a lawyer that specialises in Anti-Discrimination law. I am sure there are plenty out there.

You will also have to consider what you want to achieve from any potential legal matter. Money? Standing up for your rights?

I spent the last 6-7 months taking my former employer to court for a type of discrimination - it's a long and stressful process and makes u often doubt whether what u r doing is the right thing...but at the end of the day u have to stick up for what u believe in is the right and decent thing.

Best of luck with whatever u chose to do...

:)


I only want to make everything so I and fellow and future disabled drivers can compete in what they are physically able. One of my mates, a Paraplegic won aussie titles speedway in his sprintcar and also a go kart and when i was recovering this was hope for me!! What hope is there for future injured people or those that are unlucky enough to already b disabled before they get to the driving age?? At the rehab i was at they had to do the driving school for our spinal unit stroke unit and brain injury unit!! Everyone deserves a chance at what they can do or achieve otherwise ya may aswell lay in ya hospital bed and give up! I have plenty reasons to give up i'm trying find some keep going and showing people it can be done!!! Those that seen me leaving were definately interested i had a fair crowd of spectators watch me get in and inspect how it all worked and that i wasn't allowed to drive! Every1 at scrutineering and sign on were champions and couldn't believe it either!

[jamit]

I am in disbelief this makes my blood boil. 2ajmanvell82 i hope you pursue this further this sort of thing cannot be allowed to happen. I have seen you build thread and the work that has gone into your ute and to be stopped at the briefing that is poor form. Such a p1ss poor excuse to give.
Please keep us posted on updates and outcome. I think there is enough people here and on other automotive forums that we can make enough noise and make it as unpleasant for the organisers that you get the outcome you deserve.

[11SLI]

Hey mate, i just forwarded this link to my mate who is in the same scenario as you.. He has a hand controlled VY GTS Coupe, cammed, stalled, all the good gear and loves his motorsports to bits...

With everything he has gone thru there is not one moment that can dampen his day, which is f**king brilliant to see everytime we go out with him...

He sometimes thinks its a burden for us to help him everywhere and get in/out of cabs/boats etc etc but its what we do for an awesome mate and love doing it...

I hope you get this sorted out not only for your sake but for future reference for other disabled bodies that love their motorsports and events like this :)

:goodjob: :)

[redss]

2ajmanvell82,

Mate that is crap you weren't allowed to enter:flipoff:. Rip into 'em and keep us updated. This stuff SHOULD NOT HAPPEN in 2010!

Cheers

Pete

[2ajmanvell82]

I just rang Gup, promoter of Powercruise, on speaker phone whilst my Wife wrote his quotes. He hung up first then i rang back, he went off his head before I said a word to try and resolve things in an ethical way!!!

He got on the phone started swearing his head off at me saying "blah blah blah" "your a ****head" exact words!!! He was going off at me and wouldn't let me talk.

I said: "was i not allowed to drive because of a disabled driver who had crashed previously at Darwin"
He said: "Exactly"!!!!
I said "who's decision was it to not let me drive?"
He yelled: "Mine, my Show remember"!!! "i have a disability too, i can't feel my arm"
I said: "I'm aware of that, and thats why i thought you would understand my situation!!"
I said "what happens next year"
His reply "exactly the same thing!!"
He asked "what are you trying to achieve"
I said "for people like me to be able to drive at the event"
he said "mate the events over".

I tried to ask more in a calm manner yet he constantly yelled over me and wouldn't allow me to talk, refused to answer any of my questions. accusing me of yelling at him from 5 seconds into the conversation when in actual fact that was him!! And when i tried to talk he said "mate your a ****head!" and hung up again!!!

I am so furiously frustrated and can't believe what just happened after everything on the wkd and thinking i will just try find his reasoning, to get abused and even more abused!!! I'm shaken up and my wife can not believe it either, **** THE STUPID ****WIT!!!!!

[Alex81]

Take the wanker to the cleaners, sue for discrimination. He sounds like a complete Farkwit and needs to be broken in many ways.

Too this wanker if you are reading this, i bet you feel like a real man now.

[hdt493]

nice maloo mate,sorry to hear the s#@t you copped at powercruise.
DONT LET THIS SLIDE. im sure the event organizers will offer some restitution.
you have a rock solid case of discrimination.

edit just read about gup phonecall.
what a deadsheet he is. lawyer up and punish him dude.

[matls1]

mate he's the f**khead, I most def wood be taking it further now just for his attitude

cheers matt

[FatBoy]

I just rang Gup, promoter of Powercruise, on speaker phone whilst my Wife wrote his quotes. He hung up first then i rang back, he went off his head before I said a word to try and resolve things in an ethical way!!!

He got on the phone started swearing his head off at me saying "blah blah blah" "your a ****head" exact words!!! He was going off at me and wouldn't let me talk.

I said: "was i not allowed to drive because of a disabled driver who had crashed previously at Darwin"
He said: "Exactly"!!!!
I said "who's decision was it to not let me drive?"
He yelled: "Mine, my Show remember"!!! "i have a disability too, i can't feel my arm"
I said: "I'm aware of that, and thats why i thought you would understand my situation!!"
I said "what happens next year"
His reply "exactly the same thing!!"
He asked "what are you trying to achieve"
I said "for people like me to be able to drive at the event"
he said "mate the events over".

I tried to ask more in a calm manner yet he constantly yelled over me and wouldn't allow me to talk, refused to answer any of my questions. accusing me of yelling at him from 5 seconds into the conversation when in actual fact that was him!! And when i tried to talk he said "mate your a ****head!" and hung up again!!!

I am so furiously frustrated and can't believe what just happened after everything on the wkd and thinking i will just try find his reasoning, to get abused and even more abused!!! I'm shaken up and my wife can not believe it either, **** THE STUPID ****WIT!!!!!

Make his life hell dude. If he'd apologised and said it was insurance related or whatever you could maybe understand his position - but hey, he sounds like an A grade knobjockey from his response...

Screw him over as hard as you can, and take great pleasure from it. make the Anti-Discrimination mob your first call... :goodjob:

[ratter]

that attitude would make me want to pursue it as far as I could also

[11SLI]

im with everyone else in this!!!

Im almost keen to try get as many people as possible to boycott Powercruise (even thou its probably one of the best events on the calender) just to prove to Gup that his attitude is absolutely ****ed up and should be taken to the cleaners for everything..

What a joke he is!

[feistl]

Yes i have thought about ways and avenues

Thats cool. As i said, totally agree with you. Just more often than not, there are 2 sides to every story. I highly recommend you pursue this matter further... Just be armed with fact rather than emotion. Ive been in similar situations... and if you approach it with logic, reason and rationally you generally get a better outcome than a head full of steam.

Keep us posted. :goodjob:

[2ajmanvell82]

I've just tried to approach it with logic to not even get a word in and him basically call me, a ****head and i got no chance at driving at the event, its not discrimination, its my event i'll do what i want! I'm sorry but we're a little bit rattled here and in disbelief after that phonecall, and his attitude. can't believe i even tried to talk to the cockhead!!! we couldn't write down his abuse quick enough there was that much abuse!!!

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

absolutely piss weak on there part IMO

[2ajmanvell82]

I'm now honestly done for words i can't believe i just spoke to someone like that! when i was told he would be understanding having to go through his own disability, to be told ya can't drive once when ya have ya accident to go yes i can to get pulled up and stopped by a dick like that and not even b able to have a conversation about it but just mouth off ya!!! i just am baffled!!! Can tell you my mates won't be there next year i asked them to come then i couldn't drive or drive with them and then they got no driving as some1 had a crash and they done 3 slow laps, bet ya that cars allowed back next year!!!

[xcelr8]

wow just read the phone call post!! time to lawyer up!! should have recorded the conversation and sent it to aca they love that shit:)

[2ajmanvell82]

wow just read the phone call post!! time to lawyer up!! should have recorded the conversation and sent it to aca they love that shit:)
my wife was trying bloody hard but we weren't expecting the abuse we thought there would hav been some kind of conversation and i was blammed that apparently one of my mates had called him earlier today!!!! It was neither of my 3 direct friends but many people know me and i said i don't care who rang it wasn't me and i'm ringing now to try and resolve things and i got smashed absolutely smashed and if i had any dignity before it, after i felt like i don't know why i try!!

[10sec_rx7]

Anthony thats shit.. plain and simple...

**** GUP and his shit..

[Duncs]

wow, gup is even more of a c0ckhead then i thought.

[Tecca]

Thats disgusting mate! you bloody hold a full license.

[2ajmanvell82]

I'm on boiling point!!! not happy ya get wankers like this running everything and i won't b able to do a thing!!! Think i'll have stand before the scrutineers point next year with petition and wat the outcome of all this crap comes to and show them the sort of man the big gup is!!! Doesn't take much to have a bit of respect and if ya thought i swore a bit thats all his yelling was!! how would he feel he b in my position or his child end up like me and not b able to do wat they love then have a knob like him abuse you or ya kid like he did!!! Some people oughta take a step back and think about wat they say!!!

[powercruise gup]

Well Well Well

How about this thread hey.

Seems everyone has an opinion and that’s fantastic. I could offer a rebuttal but after the abuse my staff have had from Anthony's apparent buddy today and the abuse my staff and I have received from Anthony today after explaining my position on the matter I am left to wonder what possible outcome there was to achieve. There is only one person on this thread who has got the right answer and that answer was that there are 2 sides to every story and if Anthony chooses to air his side publicly however distorted from the facts of the matter it is, then by all means go for it.

Here is my side of the story for the reason Anthony was denied access.

Firstly when Anthony called us weeks ago, he asked if there was wheelchair access to the venue and also what toilet facilities were available and he also asked about parking and driving into the venue. We told him what access there was to the toilets, parking and driving into the venue and also directed him to the venue website for possible further information. At no time were there any questions about entering his car or Anthony being allowed to drive ON the track in the Powercruise event.

Anthony then showed up on the day. Completed an entry form and he did in fact pay his money and the scrutineer, upon realising that Anthony's car was in fact hand controlled, proceeded to contact a senior staff member who is my 2nd in charge who in turned brought the matter to my attention.

I then chose to take up the matter with the insurer representative who is the CAMS Clerk of the Course and it was agreed that due to a previous incident at another Powercruise where an entrant in a hand controlled car was involved in a serious incident we believe that it would have been, without professional consultation, a failure in our duty of care to all entrants to accept Anthony's entry. Anthony’s wife also mentioned that he was in fact reasonably inexperienced with his car’s hand controls and this too was also a factor in the decision.

Anthony was then told of the reason for not allowing him to drive at Powercruise and was then refunded his entry fees that he just paid as well him and his wife were admitted for free to the event. My senior staff member then gave him the required car sticker which gained him access to the nearest possible parking close to pit lane where he would have the best seat in the house. I actually saw a guy in a wheelchair, not knowing it was the same person, and I though to myself have we done all we could about making sure this guy was in the best position to see what he could from his wheel chair as I too have been in a wheelchair for only 3 months so I know full well what it’s like to lose some of your ability to move around.

Anyway after all of this happening, my staff reported to me that Anthony, while no doubt being disappointed with the outcome, was accepting of the outcome and understood the reasons for our decision and all of his questions were answered.

Anthony was also told that had this been brought to our attention a month or so earlier the fact that he wanted to drive on the track in a hand controlled car then we could have gone to lengths through the insurer and other parties to have the opportunity available to him and Anthony was also told that this was also possible for the next years Sydney event or any other that he chooses to go to if the situation could be looked at by our professional indemnity people. So yes it’s possible that I can make this happen only if the correct channels are used and the correct systems are put in place to accommodate him.

Gup

[ls1vt209]

I then chose to take up the matter with the insurer representative who is the CAMS Clerk of the Course and it was agreed that due to a previous incident at another Powercruise where an entrant in a hand controlled car was involved in a serious incident we believe that it would have been, without professional consultation, a failure in our duty of care to all entrants to accept Anthony's entry.

So does that mean that every driver that has been involved in an accident at past Powercruise events have not been allowed back to participate in any other PC event?

[jai]

powercruise gup
Has Not Contributed to the Forum


<- Agreed.

JK

[2ajmanvell82]

[QUOTE=powercruise gup;1687687]Well Well Well

How about this thread hey.

AJM:funny you couldn't talk to me in a realistic way on the phone and yell abuse as a so called friend had called you!! i don't know who this could have been wat, was said and made the attempt to call you, to find out your reasoning or whose decision it was!!!

Seems everyone has an opinion and that’s fantastic. I could offer a rebuttal but after the abuse my staff have had from Anthony's apparent buddy today
As for this buddy is i have no idea who it was or wat was said

and the abuse my staff and I have received from Anthony today after explaining my position on the matter I am left to wonder what possible outcome there was to achieve.

AJM:Your staff at the event were more than helpful and Nikki today answered the phone and i asked for you and she started on me about this so called phone call so asked to talk to you!!! I do not know this person!! Then to try and ask you who's decision it was and you not give me any answers but abuse and that i won't have a chance at all to enter next year, this is on loud speaker and written qouted as well as much as we could understand from your yelling!!!!!!!!! you saying i'm yelling at you and your not taking a breathe or giving anything away.

There is only one person on this thread who has got the right answer and that answer was that there are 2 sides to every story and if Anthony chooses to air his side publicly however distorted from the facts of the matter it is, then by all means go for it.

AJM:Yes there is and you could not come and give me straight answers!!

Here is my side of the story for the reason Anthony was denied access.

Firstly when Anthony called us weeks ago, he asked if there was wheelchair access to the venue and also what toilet facilities were available and he also asked about parking and driving into the venue. We told him what access there was to the toilets, parking and driving into the venue and also directed him to the venue website for possible further information.

AJM:I rang and said i would be driving and was a paraplegic and wat venue was like which i actually rang eastern creek organisers about. At no time were there any questions about entering his car or Anthony being allowed to drive ON the track in the Powercruise event.
And on no paperwork does it state that i can not drive handcontrol vehicle etc and realistically could have pre entered and there is nothing about it on the form, as i can't be discriminated against anyway but did make the call to check as this was the biggest deal i said to my mates!!!


Anthony then showed up on the day. Completed an entry form and he did in fact pay his money and the scrutineer, upon realising that Anthony's car was in fact hand controlled, proceeded to contact a senior staff member who is my 2nd in charge who in turned brought the matter to my attention.


I then chose to take up the matter with the insurer representative who is the CAMS Clerk of the Course and it was agreed that due to a previous incident at another Powercruise where an entrant in a hand controlled car was involved in a serious incident we believe that it would have been, without professional consultation, a failure in our duty of care to all entrants to accept Anthony's entry.

AJM:When i called you to ask the decision about me not driving and who made the decision and why as its discriminating you said it was your show your decision and would not give me the clerk of course and said it was you!!!
And as i tried to state to you what about the cars that crashed and ran of tracks etc on wkd and other years? I know of a few majors who are able to get back in and watch you let the big guys break rules of off street drags and basically doing fishtail powerskids!!! One set of rules for who suits you!!! You are a disgrace and you and the other event organisers are to blame as much as one another!! But only trying to speak to you i know for sure that you are a overpowering loadmouth knob!!! Goodluck with that!!

Anthony’s wife also mentioned that he was in fact reasonably inexperienced with his car’s hand controls and this too was also a factor in the decision.

AJM:The allogation about my Wife stating i am an inexperienced driver is denied as my wife and i stated to your next in charge that i had been through extensive training with the RTA after my accident 18months ago to regain my licence and since that time have driven extensively everyday as most do and including driving track days at wakefield park holding a track licence but weren't interested in hearing about it or changing your mind!!! And i have driven on cruises with some of these forum members!

Anthony was then told of the reason for not allowing him to drive at Powercruise

AJM:I was told there was a car accident at Darwin in hand control and now they wouldn't accept drivers like this anymore then proceeded to try and say had they b able to see my driving ability mite have considered entry for next year, then on the phone to GUP i was told i would face the same situation next year and have NO CHANCE!!

and was then refunded his entry fees that he just paid as well him and his wife were admitted for free to the event. My senior staff member then gave him the required car sticker which gained him access to the nearest possible parking close to pit lane where he would have the best seat in the house.
After we travel so far at loss and get discriminated against!!!! I have a full licence, engineered car, experience driving it and i signed a liability waiver. There are plenty of able body drivers that can make a mistake and be more liable!!!!
I actually saw a guy in a wheelchair, not knowing it was the same person, and I though to myself have we done all we could about making sure this guy was in the best position to see what he could from his wheel chair as I too have been in a wheelchair for only 3 months so I know full well what it’s like to lose some of your ability to move around.

AJM:but not wat it's like for everything you put your life you have left into like all the other drivers and have it taken from you for a poor call judged on 1 driver!!! And to deal with this everyday and for rest of life not just 3months!!!

Anyway after all of this happening, my staff reported to me that Anthony, while no doubt being disappointed with the outcome, was accepting of the outcome and understood the reasons for our decision and all of his questions were answered.

AJM:I was polite as they didn't make the decision they were just relaying it and its the wrong people to lay the blame on!! We could not believe wat were getting told and were very pissed off, and the staff i later spoke to were discusted aswell and other entrants! I was not able to speak to the right people and bring it up with you!!!!

Anthony was also told that had this been brought to our attention a month or so earlier the fact that he wanted to drive on the track in a hand controlled car then we could have gone to lengths through the insurer and other parties to have the opportunity available to him and Anthony was also told that this was also possible for the next years Sydney event or any other that he chooses to go to if the situation could be looked at by our professional indemnity people. So yes it’s possible that I can make this happen only if the correct channels are used and the correct systems are put in place to accommodate him.]

AJM:This is what the phonecall was for and on the day i was told if they could see i had more experience next year i may be able to enter to try and talk to you about it, your response NO Chance and its your show your decision and if this is going to a rule state it in writing!!! I was unable to be a passenger, watch my mates, spent a shit load of money on the car etc... and you could not talk reasonably to me at all!! Your phone manour was a disgrace and have never heard any1 speak to me or my wife like that and your qoutes "BLAH BLAH BLAH YOUR A ****HEAD" and would not listen to me so yes there is 2 sides to a story and you and your organisers are discriminative and you are the rudest person i have ever spoken too!!!!!

[2ajmanvell82]

So does that mean that every driver that has been involved in an accident at past Powercruise events have not been allowed back to participate in any other PC event?

And does that mean new entries who have never been to the event be judged on past persons faults and they accept no new drivers as liability??? They know none of their experience!!!

And between you and the event organisers and liable parties??? Its al your bad call as there is a waiver and it is discrimination still!!! Does not matter how you try and twist it i am as able at driving and licensed and road worthy as any other competitor!! and you need to lern how to talk to people. I can tell you i could have a meeting with you and your scrutineering staff and they would not have a bad word to say about me, and were very intrigued and then disappointed in the decision! Then as far as Nikki goes she had to deliver the useless decision and she was as apologetic as she could be and it was like getting stabbed through the heart, and as i stated to her in disbelief and crushing feat, its not her decision but this is bullshit and not on!!!

Then to call and Nikki answer and i ask for you and then say who i was and get abused for some1 elses call then abused by u!!! Do not try and make it out like your staff were abused! It was on speaker to be witnessed by all here and there is going to be further complaint from parties involved especially after your little spit!!!

Very disappointing for wat could have been a great car event!!!!!

[my sv8]

Gup has made big dollars out of PC
I wonder how long it will be before there is a death with all the other gooses out there that cant drive??? at least this bloke has done track days ect to make sure he can handle what he is driving

Shame on u Gup, your a real goose
Sue his arse,he is cashed up

[iloveholden]

2ajmanvell82 - Build your case and get all your facts right and backed up before suing the arse off this Gup....i dont know you or Gup from a bar of soap but i know which person would want to sweeten up the situation and cover their tracks. Thats exactly what Gups's response sounds to me...as JAI said he still hasnt contributed to the forum!

This situation is disgusting and mind boggling really that this happens in 2010....you have previous track experience as well, you should have participated in the Powercruise event, feel sorry for you mate :(

[2ajmanvell82]

Thanks for the support guys and i'm rocked and baffled and i want to make sure the right outcome comes out of this. His attitude and manner towards my wife and i was out of this world!!!

To start with as i stated to get my licence back, as they remove it from you while you rehabilitate to see how far you progress and you can not start driver educational program until you are rehabilitated to an extent where you are assessed on your physical, mental, and future condition, you then have to go through physical testing to see what function you have and are theory assessed on the road rules, actions etc to make sure you are with it. When happy you are given a small practical test in a licensed specially modified driving school car within the facilities, when happy with that you then progress to doing learner driver sessions at a minimum of 6 then on how they deem you they won't let you go for your licence until they are satisfied you are competent, as they do not want a record for sending drivers there that are not safe and damage their reputation or anyones health.

When happy with this you have to hire the car go to the RTA and perform a full driving test, reverse parking etc etc... as all other drivers do and i have done when on my "L" and "P" plates. All this driving is done around Ryde on Victoria rd and Homebush bay drive!(3 lane highways!!!) Had they deemed me in competent and liable to risk of myself and others would not have given me my licence!! Couldn't agree more as it is daunting knowing wat drivers out there are like and while doing all this assessing seen some real poor driving,(that of which any of those drivers could have competed!!) Then to say my Wife who has been with me through this and my passion of cars and driving and do track days and organise for this event, her to come in the car and them allege, she said "i have little axperience!!!" I don't thinkso!!

I will be contacting the driving school also about this. And then if they can judge me on 1 incident, had 1 supercharged car got a throttle stuck wide open and hammered a wall at 200km/hr+ would they then judge everyone with a supercharged car and say, oh there was this incident? He can twist and stretch it all he likes. it was and is discrimination and he was the rudest, psychotic bastard i have ever tried to reason with!!!

Disbelief this has happened and wanting to make it right for me and others, but wondering why you bother when you have so much already, but not wanting this to just happen!

If anyone has seen my build thread or met me or had anything to do with me, they know the affort and skill put into it and also know that my car is a major part of my life and recovery/release from how shit everything can be in my day to have it swipped by a knob like this!!!
Gup, other event organisers that may have had any part to do with it, whoever in general made this call need to be made an example of, and in the Yelling conversation, GUP was asked this question so i could go to the person who decided and in his yelling replid"MY SHOW, MY RULES"!! So if that wasn't a bold statement i don't know what is?

[TUFFIE]

As usual all these so called organisers of events think their shit don't stink and that they are above everyone else...

I can see a great discrimination case coming on.....equal opp..commision love this kind of shit. :smilesandbanana:

Later GUP......

[5.7ute]

Considering a paraplegic is able to ride a motorbike in the Finke Desert Race, a few laps around Eastern Creek or any other track in a car should be easy to insure. Poor form from the organisers.

[2ajmanvell82]

And alo Gup had said this so called "Darwin driver" had heaps of experience but pulled the lever the wrong way and floored the throttle!!! Had he even come and look at my car this is in no way possible as there is no push/pull throttle/brake setup!! but no attempt of observation was made. And i know able bodies can make this mistake aswell and if inexperienced in the wrong situation can also panic and floor the throttle!!! and also some peddles that people run can make you push the accelerator while trying to brake, or hard brake while using the clutch to plant someone up their ass!

BIG MAN!!! HE LET US IN AND GAVE US THE BEST POSSIBLE SEAT!!!! on the ground where i could see drivers line up then not see them after that as there is a wall and spectators standing. I've been to the event before and stated to my Wife and mates if i can't drive its not worth going as to see wats going on around the track you need to go on the roof!!!! Having to leave the event early, as i was stuck in my wheelchair all day, not being able to swap that with aircon in my car and a different seating position for pressure relief and pain and heat exhaustion, and not see my mates drive or travel with them as it was a complete waste of our time, money and effort!

[BOBGEN111]

Good luck with it and pursue it as far as you can.

So what happens when a car driven with a manual is crashed? Ban all manual cars!!

[PUMPED]

Very very poor effort thats for sure, you should have been told and made clear prior to paying for the event that you were not allowed in any driving events. Instead they hid it by saying all the good points about you being able to attend like having general entry and toilets to use. Not good considering i have a close mate in the same situation that would love to attend your event Gup and i know that he can drive better then most of the younger unexperienced crew you let in through the gates. Something needs to be done and changed for this years events to make it suitable for all licenced drivers!

[11SLI]

Anthony,
After getting off the phone to my mate who is in similar position as you with a hand controlled VY GTS Coupe, he was allowed to Powerplay here in QLD which is a lead up event to Powercruise which is still run by the same organisation...

So its a bit ridiculous of Gup to just shut you off like this, so you should take it further for sure!

[11SLI]

Very very poor effort thats for sure, you should have been told and made clear prior to paying for the event that you were not allowed in any driving events. Instead they hid it by saying all the good points about you being able to attend like having general entry and toilets to use. Not good considering i have a close mate in the same situation that would love to attend your event Gup and i know that he can drive better then most of the younger unexperienced crew you let in through the gates. Something needs to be done and changed for this years events to make it suitable for all licenced drivers!

All good Gav, ive let our mate know (not mentioning his name to keep it private) last nite and he is getting onto this as well, as we know how much involved he is with the media and TV and how good a spokesperson he is for road traffic ads and does driver education talks at schools :)

[PUMPED]

All good Gav, ive let our mate know (not mentioning his name to keep it private) last nite and he is getting onto this as well, as we know how much involved he is with the media and TV and how good a spokesperson he is for road traffic ads and does driver education talks at schools :)


Good Man :goodjob:

Im sure he will hear from him soon enough!

[2ajmanvell82]

Thanks for all the support guys main thing is we want to make it so we aren't classed as un-able drivers as we are planty able! He has taken it further than that but thats the main objective!!! Although he has taken my dignity from me and then acted like a tool towards me!!! It's not fair, for anyone!!! What if a disabled spectator be hit by a dickhead driver around the pits??? Same liabilities, otherwise don't let anyone in!!!

[KAL SPL]

Anthony was told of my reason for not allowing him to drive at Powercruise which in case anyone else needs to know is i allowed a guy with the same problems as Anthony to drive at Darwin Powercruise and he crashed his car after getting a little excited on the track. No experience in performance driving and yeah that happends you might say BUT this guy broke both his legs as they dont work due to his condition and he didnt feel them so he didnt know they were broken. Thats the reason why i have the discression not to allow suitable drivers to drive at Powercruise. When there is precedence set, if rules or discressions are changed after that fact then duty of care comes into play and i become liable due to knowing about the last incident. its happened once ending in an injury. thats a 100% failure rate. Not only that, i personally drove the Darwin car in question and even i messed up the hand controlls and by Anthony's admission he had only recently had the car controlls changed and had been licensed. not that i have to explain myself that is but there you have it Gup
Copied and pasted from elsewhere.

[awesome _vzss]

i hope these gup scumbags pay for what they have done
2ajmanvell82 i say this on behalf of the forum that you
have everyones support behind this matter .
i beleive you should persue the matter to sure that this does
not keeping happening to you and other people with a disability.
it's down right discrimination what they have done and i beleive
no one should stand for it.
good luck with it mate you defently have full support

cheers steven


ps gup of powersruise:flipoff:

[2ajmanvell82]

Copied and pasted from elsewhere.

I had the car converted and driven since getting licensed and i can tell you i can drive it!!! You would not be getting into my car to drive it as you would probably **** up as your not licensed in this vehicle!!! No assessment was made just a downright discriminating assumption!!!!

Where was this copied and pasted from???

Had he crashed that hard he should have been checked and being a paraplegic even more so!!!!! Still comes down to poor organisation!!!! Ya ****in knob!!!! do u think you should be let loose in a car we have to do so much schooling in? What had u crashed it? he lose everything and his car and you blame the controls and him enering the vehicle as a paraplegic??!!

[ls1vt209]

So does that mean that every driver that has been involved in an accident at past Powercruise events have not been allowed back to participate in any other PC event?


Copied and pasted from elsewhere.


My question does not seem to have been answered and the reply in the quote KAL does not do your case any help GUP.

[the big fist]

Not really surprising in this super ridiculous litigious society.
You can't blame a guy for completely covering his arse at an event like this.

[jamit]

Not really surprising in this super ridiculous litigious society.
You can't blame a guy for completely covering his arse at an event like this.

Against what? A drive that is licensed to drive on our public roads legally like any other able body driver. The decision made by Gup and his insurance advisers is discrimination and should not be happening in 2010!

[2ajmanvell82]

Had he crashed that hard he should have been checked and being a paraplegic even more so!!!!! Still comes down to poor organisation!!!! Ya ****in knob!!!! do u think you should be let loose in a car we have to do so much schooling in? What had u crashed it? he lose everything and his car and you blame the controls and him enering the vehicle as a paraplegic??!!

Its your discression?? You didn't even look at my car and as you said to me he pulled the lever the wrong way!!! Which can not be done in my car but make your own assumptions and "discressions" (aka dscrimination) without seeing driver or car or knowing anything about me and my experience.

My wife and I both never said i have little experience and only just learnt as explained earlier in my licencing and have drove with fellow forum members on cruises.

I have had my licence for 10yrs and still know wat being a maniac and my limits are!!!! and you had plenty loose canons that ran off the track out of control including some big names!!!!

Basically you are not worth it but you need to be delt with for all future competitors and aren't worth shit to an event as a promoter!!!!

I don't recall you talking, maybe yelling abuse!!!! Nikki told me this explanation on Sunday but as above not an excuse but discrimination at your discression!!!!

[ls1lunatic]

Just spoke to Anthony, and this is a joke! I have advised him that he needs to sue Gup. It is complete and utter bullshit what was written by Gup. Whether or not anthony takes my advice is up to him.

The reason that Gup has given is a pathetic excuse for his apalling behaviour. If he had one bad experience then that is unfortunate, but to then class everyone the same is the whole reason for antidiscrimination laws.

I have had a lot of experience with this, I too am a para, and had many a drama with CAMS in the early 90's trying to get a general competetion licicnse, in the end I gave up and went to live in the US, where i raced quite succesfully (over 100 races), so I probably have a lot more experience than most other drivers out there. I feel certain that i would have met the same result as Anthony.

As for the excuse of blaming the CAMS Clerk of course, I hope he/she is prepared to back you up in court, as CAMS has changed their stance in the last decade towards disabled drivers, and will allow a para to get a general competition license, which if he/she really was consulted would have known this.

However the whole aguement over licensing is irrelevant, as the only requirement was for a valid road license, which Anthony has.

Anthony is a nice guy and has calmed down a bit from his understanable earlier anger and frustration, but I truly hope he has not calmed down enough to let Gup off the hook. I hope Gup has deep pockets, as this is one of the most blatant cases of discrimination i have seen.

Every competitor I have spoken to since I was made aware of this, has indicated that they are not at all suprised by Gups actions, and he is held in quite poor esteem.

[2ajmanvell82]

Not really surprising in this super ridiculous litigious society.
You can't blame a guy for completely covering his arse at an event like this.

Well don't let anyone drive that can be anyone with a licence and any roadworthy or non roadworthy race car!!!!! Who filters who could be a liability and at wat terms!!!

You can go promote an event with GUP!!!!!

Ya's aren't worth the effort can't believe i try to put my life in line!!! How bout you all get told you can't use your cars coz of his discression and he hasn't met u, seen you or your car!!!!!!!!!!!

[10sec_rx7]

ive driven Anthonys car and there is no possible way to get the leavers mixed up as there is only 1 leaver for the brake! there is no leaver for the throttle, it is controlled by a ring around the centre of the steering wheel..

[2ajmanvell82]

ive driven Anthonys car and there is no possible way to get the leavers mixed up as there is only 1 leaver for the brake! there is no leaver for the throttle, it is controlled by a ring around the centre of the steering wheel..

Thanks mate!! Appreciate the support!!! Thats it all made on assumptions!!! Looks like he should be on that add for all the insurance companies that make assumptions!!!! once again thankyou from all those on here and those that personally know me or the car!!

[god084]

+1 never attending one of his events again. What a prick. That would of made my blood boil just seeing that happen to someone else let alone if it was me.

[KrisR]

Absolute utter disgrace Gup, regardless of your stance, your discrimination of a disabled bloke only adds to the argument as to why your event should be boycott and not only at Eastern Creek - that and the thousands of dollars you make from allowing 900+ cars into your event! - 4hrs waiting on the skid pan to get 3 cruise laps in, that's worth the entry fee... </sarcasm>

The funny thing is, I've seen that many able drivers crash at EC/PC due to reckless stupidity and their cars taken off on the back of tilt trailers destroyed, it's actually amusing. Perhaps, Gup, you might consider asking each driver pass some form of competency test or advanced driving test before they are accepted entry and ask for a copy of that ticket when the entry is submitted. That way EVERYONE gets a fair go and your insurance isn't tarnished.

No wait, that'd be an act of common sense and would mean the event will be down to about 100 cars then! :rofl:

[The_Plague]

This has certainly turned to shit in a big way.
GUP-
I don't know who you take advice off, but maybe you need to consider replacing them or hope to hell they will get up in court and say that they gave you this obviously misguided advice.
If you did it off your own bat, don't fire yourself, but maybe give yourself a nice backhand across the mouth, and then after you spit the blood out, wake up to your ****ing self.
Arsehole.

[rgmast]

Common sense

Would of been real difficult for Anthony to take Gup or someone in the group on a lap to see how u drove the car and how capable u were in driving it.

From one Maloo owner to another mate I feel for ya and I hope you get a satisfactory result.

Gup Karmas a bitch :flipoff:

[HRTSEN]

ive driven Anthonys car and there is no possible way to get the leavers mixed up as there is only 1 leaver for the brake! there is no leaver for the throttle, it is controlled by a ring around the centre of the steering wheel..

Hi

To 10sec-rx7: What are your qualifications? Is their by any chance you are a fully qualified motor mechanic in Australia? If so then this is a very big strong and positive comment to be stated that their is no possible way to get the leavers mixed up.

And if the vehicle is allowed to be used on Australian roads and the owner of the vehicle is licensed to drive that particular vehicle with those exact modifcations then someone has to pay BIG TIME....

And if I were the victim in this case I would be going for a VERY big claim, but you must keep in mind this could be detrimental to future motoring events in the country, but it is something that must be dealt with sooner rather than later as it can not go on. Use the ls1 forum members to sign a petition on how disgraced and disbelieved we all are on what has happened.

regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

[The_Plague]

Anthony was also told that had this been brought to our attention a month or so earlier the fact that he wanted to drive on the track in a hand controlled car then we could have gone to lengths through the insurer and other parties to have the opportunity available to him and Anthony was also told that this was also possible for the next years Sydney event or any other that he chooses to go to if the situation could be looked at by our professional indemnity people. So yes it’s possible that I can make this happen only if the correct channels are used and the correct systems are put in place to accommodate him.]


Indemnity
I thought once you pedaled out onto a race track most insurances were null and void anyway, particularly for that of a motor vehicle used in anything remotely resembling competition.
If it was such a point of concern, then perhaps a waiver of certain conditions could have been quickly drawn up (to the extent allowed by law obviously), and don't give me that shit that it "can't be done", I've seen real waivers that contained phrasings along the lines of "you agree not to hold us responsible for any injuries you may incur, you also acknowledge that your injuries may be worsened by our negligent rescue procedures" (that was for a go kart track by the way)

Correct Systems Are Put In Place
He has a valid licence, has driven modified cars for quiet some time and in a worst case scenario could literally do no more damage then any of the other people going around out there.
Hell if you want to take a morbid ****ing view of it he already has one major injury that he can't re-do again so that's one thing you don't have to worry about as opposed to the able bodied competitors who often drive recklessly, wasn't it at one of your events that some douchebag lit a ferrari's tyres up and then headed straight into a ****ing wall smashing the shit out of the car?
Seems you are quiet happy to have people out there, able bodied, who have no handle on their cars power but are unhappy to have someone out there, with a slight hinderance, that would more than likely posses a greater element of control over his vehicle than most of the able body competitors.

[KrisR]

http://www.modifiedcarforums.com/powercruise-12-sydney-2008/

Note the 3rd paragraph and the picture of the Jeep that got all out of shape and was carted off on the back of a tilt tray. From memory the year before I saw an M3 BMW on the back of a trailer too, with the front end punched in quite severely.

2ajmanvell82: Personally I would be seeking private legal advice and do not post anything on here about it, noone needs that kinda $hit.

[The_Plague]

Pending the OP's decision to seek legal advice, is anyone in favor of setting up a fighting fund where we can throw a few bucks in so that he does not have to bare the brunt of all the legal costs that may eventuate out of this matter should it go to court.

[2ajmanvell82]

All i am gona say at this stage is; yes there is definately a waiver that excludes them of liability and risk from everything possible and to attend in the event at "my own risk", even the failure of unsuitability of facilities, as i did and do have a pre entry here with me filled out at home but was not sure which days could go, so left it to the day and forgot it so i have read and understood the entry and sup regs well before that morning! I did forget my already filled out and photo attatched form and had to fill an entry in the morning.

That is definately someone that has a high enough assumption about my hand controls but who they are is their decision, but i have spoke to the company that specializes in the modified vehicles for disabled and done my car so we can discuss this poor form and that i have done everything ligitimately and spoken to the driving school and instructors about what is going on as well!!

I am dumbfounded by this situation and the attitude in their reasoning and the way i was spoken to and i don't know how anyone could talk to someone in such poor manner in my condition. Even i could not talk to some1 able bodied like that had i been delivering them bad news and denying them entry.

I'm still in disbelief and i'm also appreciative that people are seeing how wrong it is in many ways and i appreciate my fellow local para for giving me advice and for putting forward his knowledge as he has a lot to do with the motorsport and he does one hell of a job making the bits he does for these cars everyone drives!!! Thankyou!

[feistl]

There is only one person on this thread who has got the right answer and that answer was that there are 2 sides to every story

Was that me :)

Ha, 23 years old and im the mature one.....


have you considered they were unable to let you on the track due to public liability insurance?

.....however there are always 2 sides to a story.


Also, again without trying to piss someone off...

If i took my car down (which ive spent the last 3 years saving for) and it got written off because someone with little experience using hand controls crashed into me, and the insurance didnt cover me or my medical bills i would be annoyed to say the least. I am a little surprised how many people are getting angry, without knowing the entire story. I must admit, its like a today tonight fan club. Lets take one side that sounds really bad and run with it.

Its the same people who are constantly bitching that media shows give car enthusiasts a bad name without doing the investigation....

[11SLI]

feistl - get the nose out of the rectum just to get Powercruise to Melb!

[rgmast]

If i took my car down (which ive spent the last 3 years saving for) and it got written off because someone with little experience using hand controls crashed into me, and the insurance didnt cover me or my medical bills i would be annoyed to say the least. I am a little surprised how many people are getting angry, without knowing the entire story. I must admit, its like a today tonight fan club. Lets take one side that sounds really bad and run with it.

.

Yeah and do u think Kelly will go see Morris to pay his repairs from the first race this season.
I think u will find if u are on that track u waive all rights whether u or someone is at fault

[Souljah]

If i took my car down (which ive spent the last 3 years saving for) and it got written off because someone with little experience using hand controls crashed into me, and the insurance didnt cover me or my medical bills i would be annoyed to say the least. I am a little surprised how many people are getting angry, without knowing the entire story. I must admit, its like a today tonight fan club. Lets take one side that sounds really bad and run with it.

I've got pictorial evidence (which i won't post for obvious reasons) of an able bodied driver getting a bit too excited and almost collecting someone else's pride and joy. It can go both ways dude.

[2ajmanvell82]

Was that me :)

Ha, 23 years old and im the mature one.....



Also, again without trying to piss someone off...

If i took my car down (which ive spent the last 3 years saving for) and it got written off because someone with little experience using hand controls crashed into me, and the insurance didnt cover me or my medical bills i would be annoyed to say the least. I am a little surprised how many people are getting angry, without knowing the entire story. I must admit, its like a today tonight fan club. Lets take one side that sounds really bad and run with it.

Its the same people who are constantly bitching that media shows give car enthusiasts a bad name without doing the investigation....


Mate have a look how much work i have put into my car and worked my ass off for and lost my job now!!!!! and been delt shit and piss poor excuses and also done driving schools and track days and there are loose cars everywhere and that JEEP was a mess!!! I respect my car and others and treat all equally if you want to join his side of discrimination you can! if you read the rules all liability is waived any dickhead crash including ya self ya lose!!! A risk u have to way up as an entrant!!! if the promotor can judge me like that it can't be done without discrimination i have all ligitimate bases covered but go withg what you like hope you can rest easy knowing i'm not allowed on a track with u!!!

[Spectrum dude]

I see several other forums have closed this thread due to the he said I said - unbelievable from what I have read no hard facts either way. The only two people that really know what has happened is Anthony and Gup - fair dinkum.

From what I see - Anthony didnt pre-arrange access onto the track, only enquiry as spectator prior and on the day expected to be allowed entry( i understand that with the quantity of cars at the sydney event time would not have permit to resolve this on the day for him to enter etc etc)

As far as his comments on his phone call with GUP. IMO - if he had of made the call to GUP before slandering him and his organisation publicly, maybe he would have had a better response. (Very poor decision to go public before making this call after the event was completed) But you broadcast to the world before trying to resolve one on one and of course you will have every dick and wanker ringin GUP claiming to be your mate and abusing his staff. Very poorly handled - he should have dealt with it offline until he spoke to GUP at a minimum. Then if not happy go public, all he liked.

In what little role I have played in motorsports events to date - I fully understand what kinda dicks you can deal with organising a show like this and can only imagine what GUP and his staff has to put up with much more regularly. I am not saying you are one of these Anthony - only what frame of mind it can put you into right or wrong as an organiser. That's Life.

I ask this final question - none of you will be honest now anyway - if this thread never happened and anthony entered the event and lost control into your pride and joy - would you still have the same opinions on this subject - really BULLSHIT you would.

And yes for the record I have very good mates in similar situations to Anthony, but seriously mate you could have dealt with this better just as much as powercruise could have.

No support lost here GUP, SHIT happens and life goes on. If you dont like powercruise - DONT GO - simple.

Let the rest of us enjoy the best show in oz.

Oh yer I can see the flaming coming already - but its a public forum and open to everyone's point of view and that's mine.

[toey]

well what can i say that hasnt been said already......

for a few years i have wanted to go to pc as an entrant but have alway missed out for one reason or another. but after reading all of this there is no way i will EVER be attending just on the principal of it. i have shown this thread to my missus and told a few work mates about it and they all think its wrong.

i say rip it into gup the best way you can. just dont get yourself too worked up as that isnt good for your own wellbeing. on a brighter note you are still able to attend track days and cruises so id say dont dwell on the negitives and look to the positives, i no you have definetly heard that before. life is too short to be pissed off due to others.

in the grand scheme of things gup is nothing, just a piss ant, so squash him and move on.

also id like to commend you on your determination to get on with your life after your accident, its inspiring, good on ya. chin up dude

[2ajmanvell82]

Mate you can have your opinion cos as you state you don't know the full story and people with me and there do...even other workers at the event and he had his chance to provide a ligitimate reason! And i had all intentions to enter and the phone call was to say i was looking to do powercruise and ask about facilities. i don't have to state anymore to u as it is not in writing and as said gup's phone call was monitored and then he twisted it to sound like the most decent guy in the world. so have ya say i don't doubt he and other organisers don't have to deal with dickheads as i seen plenty there on the weekend!!! I have to deal with dickheads discriminating and having my life belittled more and more everyday.

And had this forum not started how would you feel had u become the disabled and this happen to you for no one to stand up for you????

I can tell you had i been stupid enough and caused an accident ya man up and accept your fault as anyone should but most are gutless!!!!!

[Alex81]

I see several other forums have closed this thread due to the he said I said - unbelievable from what I have read no hard facts either way. The only two people that really know what has happened is Anthony and Gup - fair dinkum.

From what I see - Anthony didnt pre-arrange access onto the track, only enquiry as spectator prior and on the day expected to be allowed entry( i understand that with the quantity of cars at the sydney event time would not have permit to resolve this on the day for him to enter etc etc)

As far as his comments on his phone call with GUP. IMO - if he had of made the call to GUP before slandering him and his organisation publicly, maybe he would have had a better response. (Very poor decision to go public before making this call after the event was completed) But you broadcast to the world before trying to resolve one on one and of course you will have every dick and wanker ringin GUP claiming to be your mate and abusing his staff. Very poorly handled - he should have dealt with it offline until he spoke to GUP at a minimum. Then if not happy go public, all he liked.

In what little role I have played in motorsports events to date - I fully understand what kinda dicks you can deal with organising a show like this and can only imagine what GUP and his staff has to put up with much more regularly. I am not saying you are one of these Anthony - only what frame of mind it can put you into right or wrong as an organiser. That's Life.

I ask this final question - none of you will be honest now anyway - if this thread never happened and anthony entered the event and lost control into your pride and joy - would you still have the same opinions on this subject - really BULLSHIT you would.

And yes for the record I have very good mates in similar situations to Anthony, but seriously mate you could have dealt with this better just as much as powercruise could have.

No support lost here GUP, SHIT happens and life goes on. If you dont like powercruise - DONT GO - simple.

Let the rest of us enjoy the best show in oz.

Oh yer I can see the flaming coming already - but its a public forum and open to everyone's point of view and that's mine.

Fark it, just re-read your comment and well i agreee with some points, so will withdraw what originally wrote.

[2ajmanvell82]

I don't want to keep going over it to you who if ya read the whole thread, you would see that no matter what way you guys try and twist it, state it, worm around it, i had everything needed to do the event and have copies of everything needed and it was blatant discrimination and there was plenty of witness right from the start!!!! Gup was to be held liable for his decision from this point on! no he said back and forth just straight fark u for being disabled!!!

All u guys who are reserved about me and my hand controls go and watch everycar and entrant there and tell me not 1 worries u!!! They worried me!!! you can all think about how your life change in one simple moment and try have a go!!! and u have no idea of the other problems i had to face to get to this event!!!

[KrisR]

I ask this final question - none of you will be honest now anyway - if this thread never happened and anthony entered the event and lost control into your pride and joy - would you still have the same opinions on this subject - really BULLSHIT you would.

There is a bigger picture - how many disabled drivers on a powercruise event have crashed vs how many able drivers have? Then extrapolate those numbers out to how many have taken out other vehicles.

All we know is that 1 disabled driver had a stack in Darwin (I think it was?) and now Anthony is allegidly discriminated against. Now, how many drivers that are "able bodied" get onto these tracks on a Powercruise event and cause accidents/crashes due to blatant stupidity and/or not knowing the limitations of their own skill in a high powered vehicle?

The only one that can honestly answer that question is the clerk of course or Gup - whether he chooses to provide an answer honestly is entirely up to him.

In answer to your question though, if god forbid someone crashed (abled or disabled) into the pride and joy, it wouldn't matter because you've signed an indemnity waiver so you're f&*ked either way - but the pissed off feeling would be the same, regardless if there is a handicap.

[Spectrum dude]

Anthony - I am only stating from what I have read and as you commented I don't know the full story.
I am a car nut and a racer also, so I sincerely hope you enjoy you car and all future events you enter.
I have just finished reading your build thread and it is an amazing story.
I have met the guy mentioned from the Darwin event and he is an amazing bloke and loves his motorsport with a passion. He sponsors everything to do with motorsport known to man up here. Anything is possible.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do, I just hope you stand back take a breath and not run off emmotion only.

[2ajmanvell82]

Had i not been a competent driver i would not have my licence just as you wouldn't and i'm confined to the same road rules etc and i got all my points so theres a good start.

We all sign the indemnity and are told motorsport is dangerous and can cause damage or death, i am familiar with this through racing bikes and things for the past 12 years!!!!! Not happy leave or if not happy later withdraw from the event!!!

I appreciate your response and thanks for the credit to my build! Maybe this can make people realise how dedicated to my car and that i love my car and appreciate all i got and we have done all the work ourself, i don't want to go stupid in it or anyone else go stupid throwing dirt rubber etc at me.... i was reserved as i know how stupid some are and my car is neat!!!

Everything stated is going on fact and talking to the right authorities and under the regulations of discrimination and i am making sure i keep a level head and drill this point right! so to make it right for all like me! I am purely more willing to do so though through emotional trauma on the day incurred then more and more as this goes along and get an arrogant atitude from gup and people who aren't understanding the problem.

[2ajmanvell82]

I know that all my driving limbs are feelng ind working

I also have an AASA licence, even tho not needed!

I have spoke to the licencing body and a driver CAN NOT be classed as a "Disabled Driver" they have fought hard for this! It is stated as a condition on the licence that "I must drive a hand controlled vehicle", those with glasses and other medical condition or "P" platers will have their conditions stated, once licenced we are all clased as a "LICENCED DRIVER".

Also spoke to the modifier of the car who specialises in only modifying cars for people with disability and he is disgusted as once the vehicle is modified and controls engineered it is deemed a "LEGAL DRIVEABLE VEHICLE" and paid big money for this! He does controls for many disabled including amputee's and people with shorter limbs, so had someone come that has a peddle extension etc... they are still like all of us, a legal licenced driver and can't be judged or yes, DISCRIMINATED!!!!!

Based on this only and no one even needing to try and pre-arrange, there is no ground they can deny me to drive!!!

Stated here and on other forums, i would like to say as it seems some people have missed it, I have said from the start it was not the people at the gates decision, and they were very helpfull and intrigued as they also knew someone with disability, and i said to them thanks for everything they had done, and they were quite disgusted also. It was Gup's decision and was delivered via Nikki, his second in charge and as stated to her and in front of the other staff, my Wife, my Friends and other onlookers that I know it's not your decision so i'm not going to get angry at you but this is not right and this is not on and had to move on in disbelief and digust of all present, some of who had further words about the situation.

Thankyou to those who can actually see the right reasoning behind this and i'm not even going to need to state anything but actual fact of matter!

[TUFFIE]

I see several other forums have closed this thread due to the he said I said - unbelievable from what I have read no hard facts either way. The only two people that really know what has happened is Anthony and Gup - fair dinkum.

From what I see - Anthony didnt pre-arrange access onto the track, only enquiry as spectator prior and on the day expected to be allowed entry( i understand that with the quantity of cars at the sydney event time would not have permit to resolve this on the day for him to enter etc etc)

As far as his comments on his phone call with GUP. IMO - if he had of made the call to GUP before slandering him and his organisation publicly, maybe he would have had a better response. (Very poor decision to go public before making this call after the event was completed) But you broadcast to the world before trying to resolve one on one and of course you will have every dick and wanker ringin GUP claiming to be your mate and abusing his staff. Very poorly handled - he should have dealt with it offline until he spoke to GUP at a minimum. Then if not happy go public, all he liked.

In what little role I have played in motorsports events to date - I fully understand what kinda dicks you can deal with organising a show like this and can only imagine what GUP and his staff has to put up with much more regularly. I am not saying you are one of these Anthony - only what frame of mind it can put you into right or wrong as an organiser. That's Life.

I ask this final question - none of you will be honest now anyway - if this thread never happened and anthony entered the event and lost control into your pride and joy - would you still have the same opinions on this subject - really BULLSHIT you would.

And yes for the record I have very good mates in similar situations to Anthony, but seriously mate you could have dealt with this better just as much as powercruise could have.

No support lost here GUP, SHIT happens and life goes on. If you dont like powercruise - DONT GO - simple.

Let the rest of us enjoy the best show in oz.

Oh yer I can see the flaming coming already - but its a public forum and open to everyone's point of view and that's mine.

Spoken like a true ignoramus....look at the whole picture..his state of ability or diability does not make a difference, if the proper authorities have done their tests and deemend it ok for him to drive..his ability is no different to anyone else, he signs the diclaimer same as anyone else.

End of the day the OP has been discriminated against because of his diability....Simple really.

[Josh_P]

any update on this matter?

i wonder if the bloke with the black staunch Monaro will not allowed back to the event cause he hit the wall being a d!ck(with kids inside)

[SINISTER R8]

I too would like to know of any updates. This is just wrong and the OP needs some retribution,via the courts. Hope all is going good.

[2ajmanvell82]

Hey guys have to thank you all for support and there has been a number of other support groups made.
I have just been trying to solve this through the right authorities and avenues so that it be this can't happen to me or any other physically challenged individual. At this stage seems they should have let me drive and they had nothing to stop me on and that his decision was all based on this one incident, still in the process of recieving a resolution to the incident.
But it has been good to see the people supporting me and hopefully making it right for everyone to have a right to do what they enjoy.

Thanks all!!!

[OMR346]

any update on this matter?

i wonder if the bloke with the black staunch Monaro will not allowed back to the event cause he hit the wall being a d!ck(with kids inside)

He hit the wall becuase the methonol frooze up the throttle. Not becuase he was being a dick.

[Josh_P]

ok, so would that deem the car unsafe?

[OMR346]

In a way, yes. But where do you draw the line. In that argument, every car on the track that is not standard, which is pretty much all of them, is unsafe.

I do no agree with what has happened. But at the same time, i can see reasons why Anthony was denied entry. I guess as Gup has said, with prior arangments, it would be possible for someone in Anthony's situation to be allowed to enter the event. Unfortunatly, it didnt happen that way.

Before the flaming begins, i am in no way taking sides here. I wasnt there, and i do not know the situation and exactally what has happened. And "he says she says" bullshit always gets out of hand.

Just keep your head up, and enjoy the things you love to do. Its great to see you have jumped back behind the wheel, and are still participating in motorsports. Im sure many would agree that it is very inspirational.

[GenReaper]

Just keep your head up, and enjoy the things you love to do. Its great to see you have jumped back behind the wheel, and are still participating in motorsports. Im sure many would agree that it is very inspirational.

I agree, chin up mate, good things come to those who wait.

In Adelaide there is also a guy who drives a pretty mean monaro with hand controls, he gets out and about too, nice bloke he is.
Dont let it hold you back.

Keep on pluggin at it mate you will get there even if alot think it stinks, your mates will rally to your cause.

[2ajmanvell82]

I'm not going to go into this he said i said as that isn't the problem and it's being sorted on a level above that arguement and on the rights and terms of the incident and is not satisfactory for the decision, as i have been made aware it isn't. If prior arrangement needed to be organised when i had everything needed to be entered as in full drivers licence, over 18 and registered vehicle that had engineered controls, totally different to this so called other car, it would need to state in the entry all hand controlled vehicle drivers must pre arrange.....Which they can't as i'm the same as per any other nsw licenced driver. If it were a cams licencing agreement every driver/car there should have been cams certified and licenced.

This would be like any of the drivers there arriving with glasses on and them saying; A guy with glasses crashed at our prior event as he couldn't judge the speed of a car approaching him, so we can't let u drive today, but if you had pre arranged and we could see your driving ability we maybe could have but nope your not allowed to compete in the event today even though you have everything needed to enter, tough luck!! When you just have the condition on licence saying have to wear glasses and you say look here they are and i got my licence wearing them and nothing was stated in the entry that if u had glasses u had to pre arrange!!?? After the scrutineers and sign on had already entered you fine and were just trying to get drivers briefing to come down stairs.

I know your not siding and appreciate your input aswell, where u draw the line on a safe car can be difficult but when it comes down to seeing how far from a regular safe street registered car some are to allow them to compete, and see some of the stupid things people are doing on track and in pit areas every year i've been, yet i'm no different to you or any other as far as licencing or driving in a cruise event, also carrying a motorsport circuit licence and been involved in alot of motorsport(alot more experience with safety and conditions at a track event than any average 18yr old had, their "P's" a week, never been near a track and got a car full of mates video camera's hanging out everywhere that were allowed to drive), and as the event is known for to be able to do all these things like the good old days where can get ya mates in the car and cruise and have a bit of a drag and cut loose. And my family/friends and Wife and I put alot of time, effort, money and pride into my car i love and care about, and put everything i lost doing and had to sell into the car, not something i just want to cut loose in and not really care about, or have endless money to just fix it up if bust it.

This other vehicle you are talking about wasn't the only incident as i know of alot of cars/drivers incidents this year and previous years, but when there is meant to be a maximum 130km/hr limit during cruise sessions, you have kids in the car and in a cruise session for the throttle to freeze open from the cooling of methanol, seems it must of been getting a pretty good squirt, but as i say thats a complete different incident as per others and mine was delt with very poorly.

All that aside hopefully it will all be sorted soon even though that doesn't fix that i missed being in the event with my mates, and went to alot of trouble for nothing, but want it to be right for me and every other physically challenged driver.

I'd like all of people reading this to think how it would be having your life or family member or mate's life turned upside down tomorrow and lose ability to do everything u enjoy, hospital/rehab's/daily medical needs etc. aside, then work hard to acheive your licence back, and this now be your life release as you lost ability for most other hobbies, ability to walk, family dreams and can't do most normal things, to go to something like this and be judged in a way you shouldn't be and have your only hobby denied from you for a bull.... excuse that was a bad call.
You soon see and meet some special people in a situation like mine and appreciate alot and it's people like me getting back out there that inspire more going through the same thing to keep on trying as it did for me to see/meet people doing these things that i mite be able to do!! And have a cousin the same age and a mate in the same situation and we're the same as you all just stuck in a body trying to make a go of wat we can!!!

Again thanks to those for the support!!! Anthony.

[IR8TE]

mate its bloody disgracfull, i would maybe making a few phone calls to people of interest ie. ray hadley, ACA, TT.

if your licensed to drive on the roads in nsw then whats the differance, good on you for doing somethign about getting a license and not sitting around doing nothing.

SHAME ON YOU GUP!!!!

+2........This kind of shit makes me sick, im losted for words mate ..... I would love to see this issue pushed .. Bring on RAY HADLEY....

[2ajmanvell82]

Hey guys would like to thank the many many people that have supported me through this on here, and other places!!

All i can say is "Gup" Has been a very hard person to deal with, He did not co-operate with I or Human Riaghts with the issue, in which Geoff Arnold of Eastern creek was a great help and was very appologetic about the decision and there is and was no acceptable reason i could have been excluded from the event, and there is no reason anyone in the future can be excluded from these events as we have all that is needed and are able to gain cams and other race licences also.

Geoff has said There should in the future be no problems with any physically challenged persons to drive as we are no different and have gone through the correct steps to be re-licenced.

As for Gup he has been very careless about the issue and we were unable to resolve the issue with him as he would not concilliate with us. Human Rights advised to take the complaint to court, but this is just one more issue i don't feel like dealing with any further or on top of what is already ongoing with my life, this problem still eats me up as the way he delt with us makes me just want to make him realise what its like to hav some1 be as inconciderate as him do this and not care or try to do the right thing to fix it, but I am happy enough that the awareness has come out of it and that I spoke with Geoff Arnold and that he will also be trying to make sure this is more clearly noted that there is no reason we can be stopped from driving in cruise events and the like where there is only the need for a drivers licence as per any other driver.

Still very upsetting but feel it's just pointless trying to make him care or pay for what he has done, feel like banging head against a door.

Cheers for all the support and hope to see u all cruising at the CFC events and the like!! Love my car and driving so hopefully will have no more issues and looking forward to another track day at the end of the month!!!!!

Cheers and much thanks,

Anthony & Family.

[worldofhurt]

mate,i have just seen this and sat here through 9 pages hoping like hell you would pursue this to the fullest.You have proof of blatant discrimination and been treated very poorly. Take it to the highest court and become even more of a champion for disable people and drivers everywhere.

Don't give up,make an example of an asshole

[Don't need one]

+1 for disgust, and i think it laughable that people were whinging about how it was handled and how the people who made the decision were "slandered". If u make a decision like that u deserve everything u get :flipoff:

[TUFFIE]

Hey guys would like to thank the many many people that have supported me through this on here, and other places!!

All i can say is "Gup" Has been a very hard person to deal with, He did not co-operate with I or Human Riaghts with the issue, in which Geoff Arnold of Eastern creek was a great help and was very appologetic about the decision and there is and was no acceptable reason i could have been excluded from the event, and there is no reason anyone in the future can be excluded from these events as we have all that is needed and are able to gain cams and other race licences also.

Geoff has said There should in the future be no problems with any physically challenged persons to drive as we are no different and have gone through the correct steps to be re-licenced.

As for Gup he has been very careless about the issue and we were unable to resolve the issue with him as he would not concilliate with us. Human Rights advised to take the complaint to court, but this is just one more issue i don't feel like dealing with any further or on top of what is already ongoing with my life, this problem still eats me up as the way he delt with us makes me just want to make him realise what its like to hav some1 be as inconciderate as him do this and not care or try to do the right thing to fix it, but I am happy enough that the awareness has come out of it and that I spoke with Geoff Arnold and that he will also be trying to make sure this is more clearly noted that there is no reason we can be stopped from driving in cruise events and the like where there is only the need for a drivers licence as per any other driver.

Still very upsetting but feel it's just pointless trying to make him care or pay for what he has done, feel like banging head against a door.

Cheers for all the support and hope to see u all cruising at the CFC events and the like!! Love my car and driving so hopefully will have no more issues and looking forward to another track day at the end of the month!!!!!

Cheers and much thanks,

Anthony & Family.


Given the fact that GUP is not willing to come to the party and all the support the OP has received.

Pass the word on.... and any event that GUP is associated with should be boycotted by all on this forum who support the op...Pass the word on to everyone you know that would attend these events, see how GUP will like being discreminated against, lets put the this back on GUP, take money away from his pocket.

GUP if you read this, I will say it here and very happy to say it to your face if I ever meet you, YOU COWARD, SCARED LITTLE BOY. face up to your mistakes.... no use in running away it will always catch up with you, KARMA is a bitch.

[2ajmanvell82]

Thanks for the support still again!!

The whole way through the process he was unwilling to co-operate with HR aswell, and they had a hard time getting to speak with him and most was mostly e-mail, where he said he made the decision, saying that my Wife and I were saying i was inexperienced and hadn't drove much and the like, this just angered us more as he gave poor excuse after poor excuse to HR to say we basically said I were inexperienced and this is how come he made the decision, Why would I go to all the trouble to get re-licenced and do all this work to my car and travel down there for the event and tell them i have a track licence to then say oh no u shouldn't let me drive i'm inexperienced!! It was a joke and when Humanrights had a a difficult time getting to talk to him, he just wanted to pass me over to Geoff and then him be done with it. Geoff was great and we could actually talk about all the details like a civilised conversation, and even with the decision being made, it was Gup that abused us and was arrogant to us and wouldn't talk with us but just yell and abuse us and when trying to find out how the decision was made say, my show my rules, but when complaint made the blame of the decision was passed around.
As i spoke about with the person at HR through the complaint, he was just trying to say watever he could to make it seem right and get out of it but as we know and see he isn't hurt by it and continues to make plenty of money and let those who crash and are big paying customers back again and again. Seems the only way to hurt him and make him realise what his done is through hitting him in the pocket, as I don't think he gets how much of a punch in the face it was, or what he would think if it would of been himself or be his son that have grown up with cars being their life, then have someone like him throw it all in ya face and not give two shits about it!
As far as in the future Geoff assures there should and can't be any problems like this but while ever Gup is running the event I or any of my friends or family will not be a part of Powercruise, but those like me that havn't encountered the problem or had to deal with Gup will now hopefully never have to deal with him!
It's funny how you read about the sydney Powercruise in the mags and He says its an event where u can come and do all the things u would lose your licence doing like back in the old days and pic's of cars crashing and getting picked up on the tilt tray yet not allow me the chance to even cruise the track with my Wife and mates.
Myself, my wife and family are gutted at the way he gets to just continue going about living his great life and forget about it all in which there is a great case to put against him as it was a huge discrimination act and others alike are boiled with fury over, I just feel i'm not getting anywhere with him and it upsets me more and is doing nothing to him. I already have a matter with my insurance cover from my actual accident and i just can't arrange or deal with another on top there is so much stress, and this is just another knife in me.
He may forget about it but we never will and i hope i never see him again, seeing him in magazines and his event features are enough to drive me mad, I don't even think money would phase him, i'm sure his loaded by now and i'm nothing to him as stated by himself!!

Cheers for the support and i wish i could do more and hammer him, but i feel its gonna hurt me more than him.

[exwrx]

Well done mate, you made your point and made it well.

The promoters and venue owners should be aware of the consequences of discriminating against people with disabilities. Maybe ask HREOC to write to all venue operators in Australia with a reminder about their obligations.

Leave the civil action for another day, its not worth it when you have achieved what you set out to do.

[KrisR]

I got my email about Powercruise Sydney the other day - it went straight in the bin.

I know of atleast 7 other guys that have done the same thing, but not entirely on this same matter. PC is a pure sh!tfight because they cram so many entrants in so your wait time to get onto the track or any event is rediculous if you don't pony up and pay for a garage ($2000 for a 2 car garage from memory)

Private track days are the go if you can!

[ls1vt209]

I for one was looking forward to the next powercruise after missing the last one due to an injury, however since finding out about this I will show my support to Anthony and boycot any further Powercruise events.

Anthony hope to see you at the drag day.

Cheers
Nige

[XUV]

i wish i could do more and hammer him, but i feel its gonna hurt me more than him.

I'd like you to pursue the matter furthe , but understand what you're saying .

You need someone or a group who'll pursue the matter for you .

Hopefully word of mouth will spread :goodjob:

[TUFFIE]

What WE need to remember its PPL like us that line his pockets, WE are the enthusiests that go to these events, end of the day its US who have the power to change HIS behaviour....:soap:

[2ajmanvell82]

Thanks once again for your support!! The same goes with a few of my mates also after the fact they were pissed when i was refused to drive but then they waited round all day for hrs in the extreme heat for them to cram the track with cars and guys goin nuts and do about 4 laps hardly moving and cost enougth for this!!
Track days are dfinately worth the money and alot of fun but i was very keen for that Powercruise after spending alot of dollars to have a very unique modified vehicle and was hoping to have a lot of people see it and also possibly have a lot of people inspired by it and see that u can do stuff and to have the chance to cruise around with my mates and not feel like i'm confined to the chair anymore!!
The hardest part to begin with was being there with everything being preppared and the money spent and the excitement of getting there after the cruise down with mates to be told that and say to them u can't do this its discriminating and i have everything needed but for them to just say nope we can't do anything maybe u can do something for next yr, It was that hopelessness of not being able to change it no matter what i did and that day was taken off me and i just had to cop it and the abuse after.
Everywhere i have driven and done trackdays have been great and through the complaint i also confided in a fellow Paraplegic that raced road bikes and he still rides bikes and does trackdays at Eastern creek as a Paraplegic and has never had a problem or even been questioned so hows that!! Ya can get on the track on a 2-wheeled bike easier than i could do a cruise event in my car!!

Absolute joke!!!

Hopefully along the line at different events and cruises i will get to meet those of u who have been here as support and start to get out there and show people u can do stuff, as long as there aren't any dickheads stopping u, and spread the awareness!!!

[grandpa spec]

After reading this, another PC boycot here, disgraceful on their part.

I fail to see how you were not allowed to drive at an even that only requires a valid drivers license. If you're abiding by the law then what the hell is the problem!?

All the best mate, hope that you enjoy your car and don't encounter anymore rotten eggs such as this bloke!

[Justice R8]

The best way to make a stand is to forward a link of this to the sponsors of the event and ask them where they stand on this. I will personally forward this onto Monster energy drink tomorrow and ask for a response.

If Anthony cannot compete who can. I have a damaged soine and knees does that count me out??

Darren

[RATTLER]

Unfortuanately Anthony, after the very bad accident in Darwin with Phil Kerr (I was just behind him when it happened and was not pretty) i'm pretty sure the decision would be based on the Insurance Company, not Gup and Powercruise.

I'm very surprised that Gup has not co-operated with you on this :confused:

Scotty

[KrisR]

What insurance? If it's their public liability policy then fair enough, but each driver signs a waiver before they get in the gate and your own vehicle insurance most likely won't be covering you either...

[ti0350]

Let me start by saying I have a mate who's brother is a quadraplegic after a work accident so we all a little touchie about any form of discrimination towards disabled people. My other mate had a BBQ on the weekend as he has just finished rebuilding his blown XY and thought he'd have a BBQ so we could hear it fire up for the first time since the rebuild.. We I got there were quite a few there already and my mate was trying to find some event to enter it in, that when the talk got onto the powercruise all of them were thinking about entering it next year. U
Until I mentioned this thread so we jumped onto the forum so they could read it for themselves all of them were massively pissed off all said on the spot they will never enter one of his events again.
A few said they would be spreading the word as well amongst their mates so that's at least 20 people maybe more that are not going next year.. Not bad blokes for ford drivers lol...

[flappist]

Taking the emotion out of it.

Was it the public liability insurance? If so then it is not Powercruise who is at fault because if it was the insurance and an "able bodied" person crashed at the same time as you were on the track there is a good chance they would not pay anyone including spectators.

No it is not fair but life hardly ever is.

e.g. When NT was 0.08 for drink driving while the rest of Australia was 0.05 if you were driving a NT registered car on a NT licence in Victoria and you had a prang with a BAC of 0.07 would your insurance pay and would you be exempt from drink driving because where you are from this is legal.

As far as taking some sort of action against Powercruise, if you win then there will never ever be any more powercruises FOR ANYONE. How will this help?

If, of course, it was not an insurance or legality reason over which they had no control then NAIL THE BASTARDS TO A CROSS.....

[Aus_SS]

I think that the best thing i have read in this thread is contact the event sponsors and see what their opinion is on it ,forget civil action as it will take way to much time and effort ,get him where he gets his money from ,if the sponsors appear to side with him take it to the media ,people boycotting the event is a fantastic thing BUT there are still way to many people that will turn up with no knowledge of this incident
whatever anyone's disability is immaterial if they are able to do it !

[SINISTER R8]

And I'm sure some selfish low life's will still go even if they know that he is a discriminating waste of space. Get the whole event shut down. Someone with much more morals will step up and make a better event.

[HSVREDSLED]

any update on this matter?

i wonder if the bloke with the black staunch Monaro will not allowed back to the event cause he hit the wall being a d!ck(with kids inside)


Whoa whoa whoa.

Kids inside?

Lemme get this right. They ban a fella who has jumped through all the hoops to attain a proper drivers license in a road registered vehicle, yet they allow another to attend with kids in the car?

What sort of event is this?

[WazaSSLS1]

Another PC boycot here.
ive just read through all 11 pages of this and i am shocked really.
i was going to go to PC but i wont be no longer. a few mates of mine are also boycotting it, some of which have been building their cars for months now, now are not going out because of this.
Anthony, whatever path you take in this, you have my support.
P1ss poor GUP if you ask me.:flipoff:

[exwrx]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Kids inside?

Lemme get this right. They ban a fella who has jumped through all the hoops to attain a proper drivers license in a road registered vehicle, yet they allow another to attend with kids in the car?

What sort of event is this?

Agreed. All the waiver forms in the world won't save him if a kid is injured in those circumstances IMHO.

[old_mate]

the owner of Staunch was not driving the vehicle at the time. It was also a throttle sticking issue that was the cause of that particular incident

[Ryan1982]

yeah iv'e been reading this topic on LS1 for months now.... very upsetting & very poorly handled by Powercruise organisers (GUP). I can see both sides to this, the legal side & the discrimination side.. But definitely could be handled in a more civilized manner by Gup. The poor guys already been through enough shit in his life.

[2ajmanvell82]

Unfortuanately Anthony, after the very bad accident in Darwin with Phil Kerr (I was just behind him when it happened and was not pretty) i'm pretty sure the decision would be based on the Insurance Company, not Gup and Powercruise.

I'm very surprised that Gup has not co-operated with you on this :confused:

Scotty

Hi mate this was the bit of a scare, but the decision for me not being allowed to compete is not valid as per any other competitor condition, car, incident. Geoff Arnold spoke about this incident also, and realised this is not a point in this case and doesn't have anything to do with my situation or in the matter that GUP dealt with us and Human Rights. U sign a waiver of liability and I have been doing this for years with racing bikes, cars etc...

His co-operation and attitude, think he might just seem ok until things are going against him and he tries to use abuse and anger to try to make me seem like i'm nothing to him and his words, before it came to the Humanrights complaint, "Blah,Blah,Blah mate your a ****head!! My event, My rules!!".

Anyways I don't want shit to do with him, nor does anyone I know(very furious family and friends and fellow drivers, sponsors and motoring/disability organisations), and HR said he is being difficult and isn't co-operating after much discussion, close of case, take him to court but I already have enough problems and just wanted it right for fellow drivers from now on, in which After a talk with Geoff and other motoring bodies, this had better not happen again!!

I can only hope that oneday he feels what its like to have everything he loves, such as car events and driving be taken away from him and be denied and abused by a knob such as himself after fighting ya way back from a major life altering incident.

I just hope he feels like a big man at the end of the day knowing he can get and do whatever he likes and not really care about what or who he has screwed!

[6.2L.Club]

Looks like this is happening again with a fellow enthusiest here in WA this year.

Grant Boxall, the builder of the awesome purple merc in the elite pavillion at motorvation 25 this year has been denied entry due to his disability.:vpo:

His custom build has been built by him, for him, and he has a drivers licence. Its safe for him to drive on the roads of WA but not an event like powercruise, l just dont get it??

I think its actions like this that ruin evens like this, takes away the vibe of spending time with others who have such a great passion for all things that go fast and/or look sweet.

Tim

[TUFFIE]

Boycot it.....if enough PPL DON'T GO....they will get the Msg..........I can't believe they are still getting awway with this type of shit.

[VYSHSV8]

Start a Fakebook page and let everyone know what the go is :)

[RED R8]

I simply don't get it.....you have a licience, an accelerator and brakes like every other car there EXCEPT you control with you hands (probably more control with your hands than feet) but you are deemed unsafe?? That's Farked and takes away from the the spirit car enthusiasts are renowned for. I really feel for you mate you dealt with enough and don't need that kick in the teeth.

[RED R8]

Start a Fakebook page and let everyone know what the go is :)

Awesome idea

[VYSHSV8]

And daz this is the guy they won't allow
http://www.wheelchairsportswa.org.au/ath_grantboxall.htm

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/motors/a/-/motors/7855864/a-labour-of-love-against-the-odds/


That's it don't let an Aussie Olympian in ?????????

[VYSHSV8]

Ok setup a page POWERCRUISE SUX

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260

[VYSHSV8]

Does anyone know how to set-up a page that doesn't require me to ok there invite or request to join????

If so set it up and post it up here

[gwunta]

Hey guys its Grant here - the guy with the purple Merc. I just wanted to clarify that I havent been denied entry into Powercruise - yet. I spoke with Gup today on the phone and I was told that as long as my car is engineered, regoed and I can prove that I can handle the car (he suggested going to the track a few days before the event to show him I can handle the car OK) then I woudl be allowed to enter. The car is a twin turbo 350 chev powered 1968 Mercedes that I built from the ground up myself (aside from the paint and stainless steel welding) and although it has been engineered by a reputabe mechanical engeering company here in Perth, it is doesnt have an engineer's certificate but I have kept the rego up on the car, so it can still be driven on the street.

The impression that I got was that I had my car needs to be engineer approved and I need to show that I can control the power of the car. Im frustrated because able bodied drivers can enter unregistered (read street illegal if you like) cars yet my car must be road legal - end of story. Maybe I have misunderstood him, but that was how it came across on the phone.

PS. Here's a video of the build through the stages for those who are interested - youtube.com/watch?v=SSdObqp8f7E
and a pic below. Sorry it was unfinished at this point.

img213.imageshack.us/img213/6521/4timessmall.jpg

[gwunta]

Oh, by the way change the facebook group to an open group. That way people can join without the need to be approved

[Epic_Dragon]

that is appauling that you were not allowed!! and then to have someone go through with children in the car! as a disabled driver myself, i can really sympathise with you! the hoops one has to jump through just to get a car they can physically and legally drive, the cost of the modifications, the 'lessons' on how to use them! that is totally unfair that you were not allowed to drive on the track!!! like mentioned in here, i dare say your reaction times and driving skill would probably be far better than most people!! disabilities does not make someone incompetant or unskilled!!!!! that is just rude that anyone else can drive unregisitered, none orad legal cars on the track, yet you have to have engineer approval, and a road legal car! that is not fair not at all!

[Souljah]

....I can prove that I can handle the car (he suggested going to the track a few days before the event to show him I can handle the car OK) then I woudl be allowed to enter....

You have a current drivers license. That's all the proof of handling a car you need.

[feistl]

I can kind of see it from both sides...

The problem is, if you have a crash/cause injury etc then the public liability insurance may or may not cover them.

Now yes, it is a unfair that you have to prove you can drive first and have your car engineered, but from an insurance/legal point of view they would easily be able to tell that your disabled and driving a modified car. If one of the normal drivers crash in an unroadworthy car, they could claim ignorance (eg the car looked ok and the driver signed the paperwork).

Im not saying its right or that i agree with it, however i can sort of understand why they might be slightly harder on you...

[iCat]

You have a current drivers license. That's all the proof of handling a car you need.

yep, if your licence is valid that's all you need. if you have particular conditions you have to abide by that will be on your licence. if you and your car meet those conditions then you should not be treated any differently to anyone else.

if you can drive legally on a public road then there is no reason you cannot drive at their event.

what a load of crap. go tell them to shove themselves.

[heavyduty1340]

Ok setup a page POWERCRUISE SUX

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260


Powercruise Sux

and

F@ck Gup

I was going to go this year, but GUP can bash it up his ass with an attitude like that:flipoff:

Might go down the shed and tear the powercruise stickers off my toolbox as well :vpo::vpo:

[gwunta]

Yep, I do agree with you feistl. It could be that the insurance has some clause in it about people with disabilities. If that is a case, then its discrimination against the insurance company(s). There are sh!tloads more able bodied people that crash their cars yet the rules are quite relaxed for them. The number of disabled people involved in crashes is a drop in the ocean by comparison, so why the disparity??

[2ajmanvell82]

Hi Guys I am the paraplegic who was not allowed to drive last year in the supercharged Maloo, then got ripped into by Gup on the phone and to my Wife!! He is a pig and Human rights tried to deal with him and he would not co-operate, so they said his actions were blatant discrimination and to take him to court, I had significant support from everywhere but had too many other things to deal with, so I took it up with Geoff Arnold from Eastern Creek and he said it was dealt with poorly and tried to reason with Gup but he didn't want anything to do with making it right. Geoff said there would be no future issues as I had everything needed to drive and he offered me free entry for this years Powercruise but I was not interested as I don't want to support Gup and he wasn't making the effort.

After finishing up with Geoff it was to be that paople like ourselves shouldnt have to deal with this extra crap and be singled out and discriminated and that was my major goal coz I didn't want people to have to deal with his ignorant attitude!!!!

We have gone through everything to be able to drive again and convert our cars and are legally licensed drivers with a condition on the back stating must use controls we are not "Disabled drivers" as per any licensed driver with a condition on rear, like needing glasses, "P" platers being restricted to vehicles etc...I spoke with motoring bodies on all these issues and they have fought hard to have this as all equally a "licensed driver".

As far as liabilities etc. It has a waiver for every driver that enters that u sign and wipes all liability no mater who you are or wat u drive and wat u do...If you don't like that u leave. I have been involved in Motorsport and Motorcycle racing my whole life and this is how it is...There may be damage to you or your vehicle even occasioning death that if you aren't happy with you leave the event as your own responsibility.
Any other driver only has to be over 18, have a drivers licence and a registered car and also unregistered also acceptible as some cars are far from roadworthy and far from being built to go around corners!!!
So any 18 yr old just got licence goes down buys a piece crap car and may have no decent driving experience, loads up with all ya mates hanging out the windows and goes out and tries to kill it with no respect and causes an accident...no liabilities...same for any good driver trying do right thing it's how it is....can not be singled out when you have every bit of experience and rta has tested you and deemed you a licensed driver and you have all the correct mods and u are just disabled. Wat about people with heart conditions, sight conditions, people with ADD and any other physical or mental problem or injury that could be driving but aren't singled out as they don't show up in a wheelchair and say i drive with hand controls!!!!
From outside the car you don't know who is using hand controls and who is isn't it's just we can't walk around. it's like riding a motorcyle with hand controls or anything else and how it's operated you learn and get tested and are safe to drive.

Hearing that he is still doing this and treating us different makes my blood boil and I can only hope he 1 day feels wat it's like to have everything taken offyou an to fight through all that and try get your licence back and do wat u love to have an asshole like him do this. How would he feel everything he loves being taken away from him or it being his son or some1 getting treated like dirt!! Yet I go do track days at Wakefield park and Geoff said I'm all good for track days at Eastern Creek and that Powercruise would be all good.

We should not have to prove ourselves to him as per no 1 else does if we have the required documentation...straight up that is discriminating. Should be fill your entry out car scrutineered and enjoy your day like every1 else. How does the disabled person go that doesn't know his gonna get discriminated against go when he turns up to drive and gets told no again coz he hasn't come a couple days before from who knows where to prove to Gup wat he has already proven to get his licence!!!! This is wat happened to me and i was told this would not happen again!!!

There is the Facebook page from last year and all it's support and I have alot more and didn't think I needed to use it...But think it is the only way he will feel it, just want to make it right for anyone making the effort to turn up and have a go at wat they enjoy....

STUFF U GUP!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully can help make this right and not be treated different as if you tried to just turn up with mates you obviously would have got told to get stuffed and trust me that sux when u have made the effort to call, organised all your mates, got all your car and tyres sorted, travelled 350km's and pumped to be there and signed in, scrutineered good to go then gup going nope you can't drive tough luck piss off and every1 else being allowed through and doing wat like and you feel like a doickhead in front of every1 being told you don't know how to drive good enough!!!

[gwunta]

Yep some good points there mate! My biggest problem is that there would have been absolutely no questions asked of my car if I put my missus downa s the driver. Gup mentioned to me about having to prove that I can handle the horsepower of a TT350 chev (the power plant thats in my Merc) yet if we just filled in the entry form, put me as the owner and her as the driver then there would have been no questions asked of her being able to handle the power of the car, and she's never driven even a V8! The dribble about letting organisers know if you're in a chair before the event is just that - dribble. There is absolutely no mention of any need to do so on the entry form, promotional media or the PC website. Are we supposed to read their minds and somehow know that we need to contact them beforehand? What if I had just filled in the form, posted it off, been approved and then got told "no you needed to organise this before the event"? Im sure if you were in my shoes and 2ajmanvell82's shoes then you'd probably think the same way.

[2ajmanvell82]

Thats it we have everything required to enter yet somehow we are meant to realise we have to prove ourselves to the Powercruise Traffic Autority before the event...Wat if you are travelling 600km's to the event bwith mates ya gotta come a few days early to show u managed to drive your car there but somehow can't handle cruising around the track??
How do we know there isn't any others just planning on trying to go and know none of this??

They can't put his in the entry form as its discrimination and if going to be open to all licence holders and single out disabilities anyone with a condition should be required to contact him before and state it and prove how safe they are when they are short sighted and come flying up behind a car at 200km'hour and rear end some 1??

Can't be done!!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=10150114196980179&v=wall

This was the Facebook support page from last time. We had well over 1000 supporters!!! Was great to see everyone helping support our driving abilities...Cheers every1!!

Have a look at our rides..we have a keen interest and respect for cars...we aren't goin there to not care about destroying our cars as some of the entrants go to just go nuts...as it is promoted as being able to do without a worry!!!

[RED R8]

What about the drivers that suffer the disability of not being able to control their adrenaline and crash at these events ? there always seems to be a few of those (seen it first hand in a recent Perth cruise)...

[2ajmanvell82]

Thats it anyone that isn't used to going quick or had an adrenalin rush can really not know wat it's like to go fast or the sensation of once you have been goin fast that you feel u have slowed down but get to the corner and realise still going too fast!!
There are so many variables and hence a waiver. It really sux when you have been involved in these events before injury then go through everything and get re-licenced and setup on top of other problems then not be allowed now... Then u see the sorts of drivers and cars allowed in and it just hurts and having to sit and watch every1 enjoy everything u planned to do for that day and you and your car just sitting there...not a good feeling..

He needs to feel that and get his attitude out of his A##!

[monaro_mad]

You have my full support, ok if thats the take on the situation why don't they drug test everyone too? Give me a disabled driver with a car modified for them to drive it over some ****wit high on meth behind a overpowered under engineered shitbox any day of the week...

And i've seen this in person at different powercruises in different states, they made no secret of the fact either.

To use vehicle road worthiness as a EXCUSE to not let you go is a ****n disgrace too, if you've ever been to one then you know the level of cars they let in.

[exwrx]

Gwunta I remember your car build being featured in Street Machine mag.

An email to the editor might help Gup see reason. If that doesnt help, go down the ACA/TT route.

Good luck with it.

[TUFFIE]

Now that my friend Spiro (not his real name) is a brilliant idea, ACA or TT (today tonight not twin turbo):).. will bring the disability councils on board as well. Come to think of it why are they not on board this already, Have any of the disabilty councils been contacted?

[bouka]

Spiro, really! Could have come up with a better fake name :rofl:

Caution should be taken when involving any of the tabloid type TV shows.

There is very little influence as to how the story will be cut, edited and presented.

A story that starts of about the issue at hand can end up about out of date items on supermarket shelves.

Although not really that much better, maybe gaining the support of Neil Mitchell from 3AW or the like. If they get behind the cause then they will follow it right through and have a much greater influence than the likes of ACA/TT.

[OMR346]

A story that starts of about the issue at hand can end up about out of date items on supermarket shelves.


Oh how true that is lol

[gwunta]

Thanks for the overwhelming support guys. Yes, my car was featured in Street Machine while it was still in the build. I know George Negus fairly well - I used to work in the film and television industry. He is always going on about hoons on the street. Well here is a case of someone trying to do the right thing, taking the car off the street and onto the track for some fun and getting shot down in flames. I was asked about 3 months ago to be an ambassador for the Disability Services Commission over here in WA (I rang them after I applied for the private number plate CRIPPLE and got knocked back) so I have some good contacts there.

I dont want to escalate things yet. I want to speak with Gup again, give him the opportunity to make things right and if he refuses to then I will reassess the situation. If he says its a matter of insurance then I would like to see some proof. There is no evidence, from the research I have done, that suggests people with physical disabilities have a higher incidence of vehicle accidents than those without a physical disability. Therefore the risk for insurers is no greater.

[bouka]

It certainly sounds like you have the ability to make more noise if you so desire.

I for one admire the path you a taking in trying to have the situation resolved. A credit to you.

Good luck with it all and please us posted.

[Kingston_99]

thats pretty sh*t on their behalf to knock you back on short notice.

i too admire the path you are taking. im sure many including myself would of just made alot of noise about how you were treated unfairly.

i hope for the best for you mate.

[exwrx]

Its true that ACA/TT are a law unto themselves and you have no control over the ultimate angle they will take, but if Gwunta is coherent and intelligent, and he appears to be, then they will most likely take the right angle on this.

A complaint to HREOC should help also.

Tuff and Bouka that is not my name and you know it, just ask Mustanger's kids :jester::confused:

[gwunta]

Cheers guys, I will certainly keep you all informed as events progress. Thankyou again for the support

[VYSHSV8]

Ok Guys here is the link to the facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260

I have changed the name of it at Grant's request till further down the track....

[tomholzy]

F*ck Gup aka Michael Gilbert
Powercruise has lost another customer

[2ajmanvell82]

Hopefully Gup see's the light after trying to make it right last year and speaking with Geoff Arnold about it along with Human rights and there was meant to be no more dramas with entries. So I hope he will take the right approach and give every1 a go instead of writting us off.
We have definately jumped through the right hoops tried to get all the right info also from RTA about equal licencing etc and we can not be discriminated against. We just want to enjoy our hobies and show others the posibilities also and give those some hope in wat they can still do if been injured etc...
We all want the same thing....

[chunkyvy]

Another non powercruise customer now.
If I went and saw gup I reckon he would end up in a wheelchair.:flipoff::flipoff::flipoff:

[gwunta]

On the up side I worked on the car today with the guys from the performance shop. It looks like I should be starting the car by lunch time tomorrow. Fingers crossed........

[steedsy]

Mate I am with you, I have bung eyes and have never been able to get behind the wheel be it on the track or on the street. It really does suck when your told you can't do what you love doing.

I'd love to see everone who enters the event next time turn up to the driver briefing in wheelchairs as a protest, just to see the look on their faces!. What a flog.

I'd go to the Human right commition or the equal oportunity commision with this one and give this cruise managment a dose of modern life.

Power to you mate, you know you can do it. Don't let them tell you you can't

[TUFFIE]

Something we all need to keep in mind is that any one of us could end up in this predicament....so if you re thinking this doesn't affect me...think again....life can change at the blink of an eye....

I should know..I am blind in one eye.... but because there is no way for other ppl to tell...I never get any questions and have done Easternats, track days etc with no questions asked...Just because its not something PPL can see they don't notice.....

I know it doesn't put me in the same class but, it does affect my presection of distance etc.....

[gwunta]

Thats exactly how I thought TUFFIE before I had my accident. I had no idea that it could happen to me. The thought never once crossed my mind, and to break my neck while I was out surfing was even rarer - you have more chance of been killed by a shark than doing what I did....

[j_o_e_l_05]

EDIT:
Re read topic, realised this was happening again....grrr.

[XUV]

Gup must be the complete tool ,

When I enquired about entering Cannonball ,
it's was '' by all means , how can we help '' .

Gwunta , have you spoken to Naz Erdem , he did Targa Tasmania .

[gwunta]

Yeah I know Naz well, I played wheelchair rugby with him for years. He went in targa Taz in an HSV last time I spoke to him...

[gwunta]

On the up side, I finally got CRIPPLE running today

Link to the video: youtube.com/watch?v=kmKY9_moHBY

[2ajmanvell82]

Ok Guys. Gup has actually done it again. He did it to me last yr and I went through all the steps with human rights and General manager of Eastern Creek, Geoff Arnold and I should have continued through and taken gup for all he had but was promised by Geoff this would never happen again.
So now Grant has had the same problem and has tried to deal with the issue with Gup again and he has done the same thing as of this afternoon he is not interested in discussing this with Grant or letting him drive. So after this again we are looking for all the support possible to show Gup we are not going to put up with his discrimination and poor attitude.
I will try attatch a link to the page and appreciate all the support I recieved last year and all those that support Grant and I and all those as unfortunate just trying to ive ou live.

Cheers Guys!!

//www.facebook.com/?sk=inbox&setup#!/groups/117724511653260/?id=127247524034292&notif_t=group_activity

[VYSHSV8]

Thanks for posting it up again Tony :):)
cheers
Drew

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260/?ap=1

[gwunta]

Thanks guys for your continued support....

[vy2ttr]

Count me in as another non powercruise goer now.

Gup you are a wanker :vpo::vpo:

[VYSHSV8]

Thanks guys for your continued support....
Anytime Grant :) happy to help out

[toey]

was just talking to my wife about this issus.....again. she raised some good points to consider. there are too many selfish people out there that will say yeah that sucks but will still attend pc as a entrant or spectator so no real impact on the owner. a few people signing a petition (i already signed it) wont make the owner change his mind. so best way to make an impact is to his hip pocket either through fines from discrimination (think this is possible). the best idea from the cook would be to contact all of powercruises sponsors and make them aware of the situation because it wont be in their best intrests to be associated with that sort of business/negitive publicity especially when you go and contact the media over this blatant discrimination. good luck with it.

[TUFFIE]

was just talking to my wife about this issus.....again. she raised some good points to consider. there are too many selfish people out there that will say yeah that sucks but will still attend pc as a entrant or spectator so no real impact on the owner. a few people signing a petition (i already signed it) wont make the owner change his mind. so best way to make an impact is to his hip pocket either through fines from discrimination (think this is possible). the best idea from the cook would be to contact all of powercruises sponsors and make them aware of the situation because it wont be in their best intrests to be associated with that sort of business/negitive publicity especially when you go and contact the media over this blatant discrimination. good luck with it.

The cook is a very smart lady, I beleive this is a brilliant idea, Do we have a list of sponsors? are they forum sponsors as well??? if so I think shame on THEM to still want to sponsor the event....

I still can't believe that he can get away with this shit still...:flipoff:

[Wiked VE]

thats a joke n shame on pc organisers, i was hanging for the next one as i wanted to take my new SS down but after reading this and having a handicapped cousin i refuse to participate. told some of my mates and their also now on board.
Best advice is seek legal advice, a good lawyer would have a field day with a case like this even though i know it wouldnt be about the money (nice bonus but :rofl:). Making it public through the telegraph, news radio ect would probably be the most rewarding tho to see someones credability n life crumble around them when its clearly wat he deserves

[stockergts]

hay guys just letting everybody know that there is a face book page as another person has had the same prob

[XUV]

The cook is a very smart lady, I beleive this is a brilliant idea, Do we have a list of sponsors? are they forum sponsors as well??? if so I think shame on THEM to still want to sponsor the event....

I still can't believe that he can get away with this shit still...:flipoff:

Supercheap auto just say no :lol:

[duke5700]

As long as the person is capable in that environment no reason at all he/she should be stopped from enjoying their car as much as the next guy.

From the other side of the coin, a person with some kind of disablity that could possibly impede their abilty to control a vehicle when something does occur could you imagine the litigation then. Where do you get such a person with the levels of insurance required and particular training to say yep, no problem your capable in this envrionment.

In the litigious world we live in the owner of pc is damed if he does and damned if he didn't. On one hand you have a guy suing because he can't drive at power cruise and on the other is a guy who is disabled has a crash and then sues because he shouldn't of been driving in the first place. Then the guy the disabled guy crashed into is suing and the list goes on and on.. I can understand his hesitation.

[exwrx]

Duke that is all well and good - the organisers are entitled to discriminate where there is an objective basis for doing so.

However, if no testing or restrictions are applied to able bodied people then on what basis are they denying access to someone who holds a current driver's licence?

My suggestions:

- lodge complaint with HEREOC
- notify automotive media
- spread the word on other forums
- write to event sponsors notifying them of above
- entrants and potential entrants write to Gup asking him (politely) for an explanation, otherwise entries will be withdrawn;
- organise a demonstration outside the event.

[feistl]

Im not taking sides, but i will point out that we've only heard one side of the story. If the story is exactly as reported, then by all means get behind his cause and take action. However, i would be cautious about bad mouthing someone on a public forum without all the facts.

[stumps57L]

Taken from antilag, taken from the FB page about this _GUP's Reply

was just looking on the fcebook page and found this



Well here we go again... for all that didnt see Grants original post complaining about nothing, here it is now in this picture..... luckily i saved it hey. Grant also started this page the day after he called and spoke to me so again off ona tangent imediately so Grant had no intention but to make trouble. I'll outline it again for those uninformed gossipers......Grant called asked to come to Powercruise in his new car.. i said the car will need rego/engineers cert for the hand controlls for which he said he will have that by then, i also said i would watch his first few laps to see how he handles his new car... at no time did i say he could not enter Powercruise... read the photo it says we have 30+ disabled people each year enter... so after i posted on Grants FB page this reply, grant deleted the whole thing and didnt apologise for his misguided rant.

No one gets to hang shit on my life's business and my only livelyhood as i am also minorly disabled and cannot work as a plumber ever again due to my left arm not working so for someone to disrespect Powercruise for NO REASON at all and spread it all over FB when i clearly never said Grant Can't Enter... then this becomes personal. On Grants most recent post with the private message he posted here, i replied with i have nothing to speak to him about, (because i dont deal with trouble makers) and because Grant has never submitted an entry form, grant replied with what ever it was and then deleted me as a friend so i had no right of reply....if someone doesnt want to come to Powercruise because you think i discriminate, then you also have a small mind and dont know the facts...here are the facts
fact is i never said Grant cant enter Powercruiuse
Grant went and whinged to the world about being discrimated against which was totally unsubstanciated
Grant had the choice to appologise and didnt
Grant deleted his own FB page where i replied with this info... as well not one other person who commented there said a word after my reply.... weak as piss in my books
Grant didnt apoligise for the misguided rant.....

What would YOU do... think about that

[duke5700]

Being licenced for a road situation is nothing like enjoying yourself on a race track.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.. any nasty laywer gets hold of something like that and he/she will rip it apart and someone will be very poor.

Its probably safer for the organiser to do a blanket ban..

If I was in that situation I would of probably done the same.


Duke that is all well and good - the organisers are entitled to discriminate where there is an objective basis for doing so.

However, if no testing or restrictions are applied to able bodied people then on what basis are they denying access to someone who holds a current driver's licence?

My suggestions:

- lodge complaint with HEREOC
- notify automotive media
- spread the word on other forums
- write to event sponsors notifying them of above
- entrants and potential entrants write to Gup asking him (politely) for an explanation, otherwise entries will be withdrawn;
- organise a demonstration outside the event.

[stumps57L]

Alot of information from both sides here

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260/?notif_t=group_activity

[XUV]

Alot of information from both sides here

http://www.facebook.com/groups/117724511653260/?notif_t=group_activity

yes and if you scrolled down that page earlier today ,
jaimie de waayer used the term '' minority cnuts are going to have powercruise shut down '' .......

[exwrx]

Being licenced for a road situation is nothing like enjoying yourself on a race track.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.. any nasty laywer gets hold of something like that and he/she will rip it apart and someone will be very poor.

Its probably safer for the organiser to do a blanket ban..

If I was in that situation I would of probably done the same.

Agreed, but he cannot impose a higher level of skill or licensing or engineering on a disabled driver or his car than he does for anyone else.

If he wants to impose a licence test on all entrants, or a blanket ban on all modifications, including hand controls, then no problem. If he wants to single out an individual or group for a higher standard, then Gup needs to understand the law a little better.

[VYSHSV8]

Bloody hell My page is getting bigger and bigger :lol:

[Wonky]

Agreed, but he cannot impose a higher level of skill or licensing or engineering on a disabled driver or his car than he does for anyone else.

If he wants to impose a licence test on all entrants, or a blanket ban on all modifications, including hand controls, then no problem. If he wants to single out an individual or group for a higher standard, then Gup needs to understand the law a little better.

+1 I asked my insurer about my disabilities and was told as long as I have a licence (have to semi regularly get my doc to fill out forms for Vic Roads saying I'm OK to drive) that's the end of it. I gather it is actually illegal for them to ask about disabilities.

[VYSHSV8]

Bloody hell My page is getting bigger and bigger :lol:
well I should say Grant's page as it's dedicated to him and other's that have been unjustly dealt with in all forms of Motorsport

[Cmycv8]

At the LSX nationals this year there were 2 disables drivers who kicked some serious A$$.

I would have thought in this day and age this would not occur, it's his car, his life so let him do what he wants with it.

See the person not the disability.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Agreed, but he cannot impose a higher level of skill or licensing or engineering on a disabled driver or his car than he does for anyone else.

If he wants to impose a licence test on all entrants, or a blanket ban on all modifications, including hand controls, then no problem. If he wants to single out an individual or group for a higher standard, then Gup needs to understand the law a little better.

I can see the points of both sides. I think Gup has a right to ask for an engineer cert for the hand controls, it is a massive modification to a car to completely alter the controls of a car. There are plenty of illegally modified cars out there, but not many of them have no accelerator or brake pedals. Wide wheels, too low etc rarely ever leave you with no brakes or a jammed throttle.

If any able bodied person rocked up in a car that had replaced the steering wheel with a joystick, it would attract scrutineers attention and would need to be proven to be safe, best way is an engineer's cert. I don't think that is unreasonable.

I won't comment on any other parts of this disagreement as I really have no idea, like many others of both sides of the story.

[exwrx]

I can see the points of both sides. I think Gup has a right to ask for an engineer cert for the hand controls, it is a massive modification to a car to completely alter the controls of a car. There are plenty of illegally modified cars out there, but not many of them have no accelerator or brake pedals. Wide wheels, too low etc rarely ever leave you with no brakes or a jammed throttle.

If any able bodied person rocked up in a car that had replaced the steering wheel with a joystick, it would attract scrutineers attention and would need to be proven to be safe, best way is an engineer's cert. I don't think that is unreasonable.

I won't comment on any other parts of this disagreement as I really have no idea, like many others of both sides of the story.

Understood, but if the hand controls are legal for use on the roads then?

Looking at some of the modified cars that enter without any request for engineering certification IMHO Gup doesnt have a leg to stand on (no pun intended).

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[feistl]

Understood, but if the hand controls are legal for use on the roads then?


http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/upload/TAC%20vehicle%20modifications%20-%20Jan%2006.pdf

The TAC will work with you, an occupational therapist and mechanic to ensure the vehicle modifications meet your needs and are completed as quickly as possible.
The time it takes to complete the modifications will depend on:
• The type and extent of the modifications
• The availability of all involved parties
• Whether the modifications proceed as planned
• Whether an engineering certificate is required (your occupational therapist will advise on this)

[exwrx]

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/upload/TAC%20vehicle%20modifications%20-%20Jan%2006.pdf

The TAC will work with you, an occupational therapist and mechanic to ensure the vehicle modifications meet your needs and are completed as quickly as possible.
The time it takes to complete the modifications will depend on:
• The type and extent of the modifications
• The availability of all involved parties
• Whether the modifications proceed as planned
• Whether an engineering certificate is required (your occupational therapist will advise on this)

Fair enough, but you have seen some of the cars that enter powercruise events without engineering certificates right ?

[exwrx]

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/upload/TAC%20vehicle%20modifications%20-%20Jan%2006.pdf

The TAC will work with you, an occupational therapist and mechanic to ensure the vehicle modifications meet your needs and are completed as quickly as possible.
The time it takes to complete the modifications will depend on:
• The type and extent of the modifications
• The availability of all involved parties
• Whether the modifications proceed as planned
• Whether an engineering certificate is required (your occupational therapist will advise on this)

Fair enough, but you have seen some of the cars that enter powercruise events without engineering certificates right ?

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Fair enough, but you have seen some of the cars that enter powercruise events without engineering certificates right ?

The whole point of Powercruise is modified cars, to knock back every car with a supercharger or wide wheels because it's not engineered would mean there is no Powercruise.

If the car is being driven on public roads with hand controls unengineered then the owner needs his head read. Whoever fitted the controls should also be able to engineer approve it? So why the big fuss, it should already be done to be legally able to drive on the road, or is it not required to have it engineered for such a large modification? I don't know, I am presuming.

I understand the point about having to be engineered in this case but not in the case of say a Corolla with a V8 in it, yes it appears unfair.

[gwunta]

I can see the points of both sides. I think Gup has a right to ask for an engineer cert for the hand controls, it is a massive modification to a car to completely alter the controls of a car. There are plenty of illegally modified cars out there, but not many of them have no accelerator or brake pedals. Wide wheels, too low etc rarely ever leave you with no brakes or a jammed throttle.

If any able bodied person rocked up in a car that had replaced the steering wheel with a joystick, it would attract scrutineers attention and would need to be proven to be safe, best way is an engineer's cert. I don't think that is unreasonable.

I won't comment on any other parts of this disagreement as I really have no idea, like many others of both sides of the story.

Not really. The hand controls have two arms that clamp directly onto the brake and accelerator pedal arms. By doing this it allows able bodied people to control the car using the standard brake and accelerator pedals as well. The hand controls simply clamp to the steering column and the two arms that come off it clamp to the accelerator and brake pedal arms respectively.

[2ajmanvell82]

How many of these vehicles are far from legal and have extensive modification and no engineers and no rego. And with my vehicle it is all engineered and fully rego'd, daily driven street car and done track days and and track day licencing also but the problem in my situation was even after i was scrutineered and passed, entered and ready to go get briefed, i was then judged on an incident that had nothing to do with me, but had they actually taken the time to look and understand how my car was nothing like this other vehicle. Mine has a mechanical brake push lever and the throttle is an electronic over ring that works with the potentiometer for the elec throttle, being impossible to pull anything the wrong way and 2 totally seperate controls. Instead of just wiping me and judging me off another person and incident that i had nothing to do with....
The control can than be switched off so is fully legel for able bodied drivers to use. I paid A significant cost to have some off the best bits in the industry for a fun and well functioning system done by 1 off the biggest licenced disability vehicle modifiers, it wasn't just thrown together and not to standard.... Like getting told u can't drive coz they had a guy with glasses crash and u have glasses so u can't drive and u passed your licence test with them and your car is rego'd!!!
Same as the licencing being done by the rta testing and a pass/fail like any1 getting their regular licence and also am subject to a medical with my doctor yearly to check function, sight etc, alot more than any regular driver, which should come down to having all requirements met the same as any other licenced driver, not to be pulled up for any reason. all driving limbs are tested to be functioning to pass requirements...
Should every1 go out and have to prove themselves and if so how does going for a cruise around the track prove anymore than being able to arrive at the event safely prove?? or should every1 be required to go on the track and prove they can go nuts and flog the wheels off the car and not crash?? It isn't ligitimate so shouldn't have to prove it any further, so if gup is then happy how u drive and says yeah all good and then you go stack and wipe out have you just shown that gup has poor judgement and put you and others in a dangerous situation?? Even the best of drivers stack, thats wat happens when there are risks hence the liability waiver and u have to trust that people try and drive in their limitations and and obey the rules, but you are not fully in control of how any1 can drive once they are out there, even those that are fully able bodied...

[VYSHSV8]

And also Grant, the way the hand controls are set up is that you cant accelerate as well as brake at the same time :):) ie no such thing as a smoke show as pull on the lever meant accelerate and push meant brake :):) so no danger....
One arm was always available for steering and the other arm did the acceleration and braking :):)

[gwunta]

[cut]

I have fitted hand controls to 4 cars I have owned over the years. I buy my hand controls from Ford Australia (who make the push/pull style of hand control and are COMPLETELY LEGAL). I have then taken my cars over the pits and every one has passed FIRST TIME, EVERY TIME. If you have seen any of the videos
[cut]
you would see that I dont do things to "some backyard spec" as you put it.

In the Eastern States, it is legal to have push/pat type systems where it is possible to be able to accelerate and brake at the same time. I lived in Florida for 8 months where I fitted push/pat type hand controls and drove with them the entire time, so Im used to driving with both types fo systems. Regardless, both of these systems bolt to the steering column and clamp to the accelerator and brake pedal arms in exactly the same fashion.

If anything, the hand controls that I have used and installed are more "reliable" than the electronic systems because the electronic systems could possibly have issue with the electronics, causing them to behave unpredictably. Mechanical hand controls either operate the pedals or not, or they simply snap (in theory - in reality this would never be the case as the wall thickness of the control bar and the arms is huge and they are mild steel rather than aluminium)

To top it all off, the car is getting ANDRA teched in two weeks, with the only addition I have to make is an external battery switch. I hve done all of the fabrication myself, much of it over spec. Ive had the car at my mate's shop (Thunder Performance - if you dont know who they are then I suggest a visit to Youtube) where they said the car is engineered in way more detail than anything they have ever done.

[cut]

[2ajmanvell82]

Yes it's definately legal to have push pat mechanical controls here as this is wat i used in the rta approved licencing test car, you could have it set up as push pull where it was only either brake or throttle or u could set it up as push/pat, where holding the brake is possible and is how most the guys that are higher level injury have them set as they have a better control of being able to push forward for brake and towards the floor for throttle as some vehicles with a firm throttle peddle can be hard to pull back to push the peddle and can have a smoother control pushing downwards and when stopped on a steep street u can also hold some light brake while u bring the throttle on so as to not roll back, exactly like u do with your feet. All these and electronic are legal and obviously by Grants build you can see the work and detail put in, it's not going to be just some portable cheap control.
For my good vehicle i have the electronic control as it gives me the ability to accelerate, steer and brake all with 1 hand so if i'm just going for a cruise and feel like a drink or scratch my nose i can do it and still be in control of all the functions and when i do track days i have a free hand to be able to use tiptronic shifting. On my run around car, with it not having electronic throttle i just use mechanical levers for the simplicity and cost and they do the job fine.
How do u know wat mods have been performed and who done them and if they are fitted correctly and safely on any vehicle entering???
Having to have his car fully engineered just coz of using hand controls is ridiculous when majority of the high powered vehicles would have no chance of being legal but are built to a high std still and allowed to drive without being judged from being hand operated.
Just because a person uses their feet does not meen they aren't going to accidentally push on the throttle with the side of their foot as they go for the brake and accelerate into someone else, this is all possible but being expected to have all these things go wrong just because of being hand controlled is ridiculous, when he and I are fully licenced drivers and have the appropriate modifications...judge every1 the same and expect everything to go wrong coz they have just as much likelyhood of an accidental mistake.

[stockergts]

hey prodical son you made it over here i was going to comment on any of this however i felt bad that you couldn't enter and gup made no real effort to try i appears that this is happening here now with some posts
as some have said read the whole story and you will see what has been said was directed (in my thinking) to grant saying you cant come in becuase of hand controls which are a pit inspection not a eng cert correct me if im wrong grant
end of the day however an outcome has been reached and ill be there supporting grant with or with the t"""""s

[DanWA]

Jay didn't fit hand controls to his Torana for a reason

I wasn't aware the merc was legal to drive on the road????

Effort is not in question here, the 2 blokes have done amazing jobs against adversity... that isn't the problem

[exwrx]

Serious question - what is the problem here?

[gwunta]

Serious question - what is the problem here?

No problem any more. Gup and I have come to a resolution. The hand controls in CRIPPLE are not "road legal" in WA. They allow you to accelerate and brake at the same time which is not permitted in WA, but is permitted in vehicles in SA, NSW, VIC and QLD (Im not sure about NT and TAS). So, in essence, they require certification on the design and fitting since the event is in WA. I have an engineer coming to my place on Wednesday at a cost of $250 just so I can get a report saying that it was bought off the shelf and that they are fitted as per the fitting instructions provided. Not really an expense I wanted to fork out for given my current financial situation....