2010 Formula 1 season discussion [Archive] - Australian LS1 and Holden Forums

NickG1982

12-03-2010, 08:03 PM

Didn't see a thread started for season 2010 so I figured i'd get things underway.

First race of the new year, biggest grids since the mid 90's, 3 brand new teams (Virgin, Lotus and Campos) plus 2 renamed teams (Brawn becoming Mercedes Benz and BMW becoming the oddly named BMV Sauber Ferrari), some debuting drivers including the son of a legend and finally the return of the most succesful driver in the history of the sport.

So the season has kicked off with the first session in Bahrain with a few surprises here and there in Practice 1, namely:

- Force India setting the pace, Adrian Sutil has long been regarded as one of the fastest drivers in the sport, which combined with the excellent Mercedes engine in the back of his VJM03 which is an updated version of the car which was at times devastating quick in 2009, means it's a surprise that he's near the front, but his fastest time and teammate Liuzzi's impressive 7th fastest shows that they are on the attack early. Whether Sutil can tame his reckless driving and harness his speed into results remains to be seen, but he's off to a fine start.

- Renault were a team falling apart at the end of 2009 and with them losing backing from their parent company and being propped up with help from Lada of all companies, things didn't look good for what technically could be considered a privateer team. However Robert Kubica was very fast all session to end up 3rd while rookie team mate Petrov was a solid 16th fastest on debut.

- The usual suspects were impressive, Alonso was fastest for most of the session in his Ferrari before ending up 2nd, whilst the returning Felipe Massa was a solid 4th. McLaren were next, Button edging out Hamilton slightly. Red Bull were somewhat quiet, Webber had split times as fast as Sutil but got held up on his fast run and ended up9th, while team mate and title favourite Sebastian Vettel took things easy in the session to end up 13th. Finally the defending constructors champion Mercedes (Brawn) were slightly faster, Rosberg quicker than his teammate the returning Michael Schumacher to end up 8th and 10th respectively.

- All 3 of the new teams struggled badly on debut, Timo Glock piloting his Virgin to be fastest of the newcomers in 18th, while his teammate didn't set a competitive time and only did 2 laps. Lotus however were reliable if slow, ending up 18th and 19th but doing a lot of laps, which is more than can be said for the struggling Spanish Campos team, Bruno Senna did 3 problematic laps, while his teammate Chandok didn't even get out of the garage as mechanical problems took a toll.

2010 FORMULA 1 GULF AIR BAHRAIN GRAND PRIX
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:56.583 18
2 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:56.766 0.183 18
3 11 Robert Kubica Renault 1:57.041 0.458 19
4 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:57.055 0.472 19
5 1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:57.068 0.485 19
6 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:57.163 0.580 19
7 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:57.194 0.611 19
8 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes Benz GP Ltd 1:57.199 0.616 15
9 6 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:57.255 0.672 17
10 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes Benz GP Ltd 1:57.662 1.079 16
11 17 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:57.722 1.139 18
12 10 Nico Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:57.894 1.311 20
13 5 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:57.943 1.360 17
14 16 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:58.399 1.816 13
15 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:58.782 2.199 11
16 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:58.880 2.297 13
17 22 Pedro de la Rosa BMW Sauber-Ferrari 2:00.250 3.667 18
18 23 Kamui Kobayashi BMW Sauber-Ferrari 2:01.388 4.805 11
19 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 2:03.680 7.097 8
20 19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 2:03.848 7.265 21
21 18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 2:03.970 7.387 15
22 25 Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth No time 2
23 21 Bruno Senna HRT-Cosworth No time 3
24 20 Karun Chandhok HRT-Cosworth No time 0

FITZY777

12-03-2010, 08:44 PM

I'm there for the first round game at the MCG on the Fri night, and then the cars on the Sat with my 7yo son (Liam) and the final weekend for me to clock my FBT kms.

Didn't really read all of your post (so sorry if off topic), but, lookin forward to the weekend anyway.

Shoey's first race back isn't it ? And I liked the Indian's team last race I saw !

Cheers

Fitzy

P.S. Bahrain is just like Dubai, full of Cocain/Viagra (ya have them at the same time) and nice young Russian girls - that would deter my driving.....

FUN FUN FUN

maloo_

12-03-2010, 08:49 PM

Who is the son of a legend

mustanger

12-03-2010, 08:49 PM

Going for Shuey in the Mercedes :goodjob:

VX2VESS

12-03-2010, 08:54 PM

should be an interesting year !!!

not long to go now, be good to see who has there shit together first race, plus the new combos and the old eg webber...Ferrari has a better car now too...

ten (one) is showing them all live

and no fuel stops mmm interesting, got to go from heavy to light

FITZY777

12-03-2010, 09:01 PM

Without tryin to sound 2 fn nerdy.

Which I already do.

I have this app on my phone called 'F1 2010 Timing Application - Championship Pass'

It is a must for a F1 enthusiast.

Cheers

Fitzy

P.S. JB

NickG1982

12-03-2010, 10:23 PM

Who is the son of a legend

Bruno Senna, son of 1988, 90 and 91 Champion Ayrton Senna. A lot of pressure on a young man with awful big shoes to fill, hopefully the Campos gets better as 2010 goes on or he gets picked up by a better team.

maloo_

12-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Bruno Senna is the nephew of Ayrton.He used to race karts but when Ayrton died his mother banned him from racing.Only started racing again in his late teens.

oranpark_addict

12-03-2010, 10:39 PM

Cant wait to Albert Park will be there and meeting the drivers and teams if my team wins the 'f1 in schools' competition we are in. It'll be great

RARASV8

14-03-2010, 05:32 PM

here are 2 good links:

http://www.formula1.com/
sign up and you get the official live timing, same as the teams. very handy during adds and for qualifying.
and this to watch! prac, qual and race of all races.

http://www.justin.tv/www_p2pstation_net_7

go to live channels top left hand side click on sports and search thru the pics to find what race to watch. can be a pain finding 1 to watch all the race but generally good.

Garry

SS Enforcer

14-03-2010, 06:42 PM

Yep can't wait looking forward to tonight even though I hate the Bahrain track. I usually pick 2 motorsport series to follow every race each year and will do F1 along with MotoGp. I doubt Schuie will make much of an impact as F1 is so demanding at his age I don't think he is up to it really.

cheers

pmac

14-03-2010, 07:33 PM

. I doubt Schuie will make much of an impact as F1 is so demanding at his age I don't think he is up to it really.

i agree, the boat has sailed for schuey.

Im putting my money on Vettel for this season, that Red Bull car is quick.

VX2VESS

14-03-2010, 08:07 PM

i agree, the boat has sailed for schuey.

Im putting my money on Vettel for this season, that Red Bull car is quick.

not doing to bad in qualifying, see how he goes in a long race

Martin_D

14-03-2010, 08:09 PM

Schumacher qualified in front of the reigning F1 World Champion in an arguably slower car first race back after a length abscence and he is finished....tough crowd you lot :eek:

Delft Maloo

14-03-2010, 08:24 PM

Schumacher qualified in front of the reigning F1 World Champion in an arguably slower car first race back after a length abscence and he is finished....tough crowd you lot :eek:

But got out done by his younger and less experienced team mate.
I personally hope shuey does well and im hoping massa shows up alonso aswell.

VX2VESS

14-03-2010, 08:26 PM

First race up, difficult track high and low speed, new cars new fuel to the end..new points system

won't be easy i wouldn't write anyone off yet.

SS Enforcer

14-03-2010, 08:59 PM

Schumacher qualified in front of the reigning F1 World Champion in an arguably slower car first race back after a length abscence and he is finished....tough crowd you lot :eek:

Not really wanting to dump on him but I think F1 is such a tough gig that at his age it may be beyond him is all . Fairytale return would be for him to win first up but that aint going to happen.

I hope he does well though and that would dispell any doupts some may have had regarding his ability.

cheers

VX2VESS

14-03-2010, 09:16 PM

Not really wanting to dump on him but I think F1 is such a tough gig that at his age it may be beyond him is all . Fairytale return would be for him to win first up but that aint going to happen.

I hope he does well though and that would dispell any doupts some may have had regarding his ability.

cheers

you never know the top ten could crash and the shoe could win.

PS Ferrari changed both engines for the start of this race, buggers...

VX2VESS

14-03-2010, 09:25 PM

the shoe is in 7th place behind Webber favourite spot 6th

VX2VESS

14-03-2010, 11:20 PM

vettel after leading the whole race with 10 laps to go power loss.....

Evman

14-03-2010, 11:23 PM

Cracked or damaged exhaust = considerable power loss. The Redbull cars both have a new exhaust design that travels under the car and out the rear diffuser. Gawd I'd love to spend a day looking at some of these cars :drool:

Delft Maloo

15-03-2010, 07:41 AM

If Bernie's idea was to make F1 more boring than after watching last nights race id say he's succeeded, i prey melbourne will be more exciting.

hRTHSV

15-03-2010, 08:24 AM

If Bernie's idea was to make F1 more boring than after watching last nights race id say he's succeeded, i prey melbourne will be more exciting.

Yeah, I thought it was terrible as well, apart from VETTEL's drama there would have been no overtaking in the first 10 on the track after the first lap, excluding pit stops. What made that more obvious was with about 5 to go WEBBER dropped back off BUTTON then did the fastest first sector of the race.

Bring back fuel stops, it was boring as watching paint dry heavy cars worn out tyres it was more a reliability trial not a sprint.

VX2VESS

15-03-2010, 09:00 AM

yep needs more overtaking..

fuel thing was to get over the fire issues etc of car taking off still attached?

Maybe if someone is behind you for a couple of laps you have to let them pass.

This aero thing really makes overtaking almost impossible.

pmac

15-03-2010, 09:02 AM

I think the track is also to blame it was way to long.

Toddler78

15-03-2010, 09:17 AM

If Bernie's idea was to make F1 more boring than after watching last nights race id say he's succeeded, i prey melbourne will be more exciting.

I agree. I love to watch all forms of motor racing, but by lap 10 I was looking at the number of laps at the top of the screen and thing oh god another 37 laps to go. I changed channel another 2 corners later. It was painful watching it. I cant remember the last time I have watched F1 but I can remember why :spew:

SS Enforcer

15-03-2010, 09:17 AM

Looks like Schuie had a near perfect race really kept out of trouble and scored some good points for him and the team.

How are they going to make it a bit more interesting though ?

1 Some manufacturers could start using KERS.
2 Bring back turbo cars.
3 Dump the control tyres.

This is the trouble with restricted racing in that most teams will have the same speed and power making it an economy run for the team who can run less fuel hence lighter.

cheers

gmack

15-03-2010, 09:24 AM

I agree. It was boring. I ended up pulling the pin half way through and going to bed. Those F#@$ing cars just kept going round and round..... Anyway hopefully it was partly the track to blame. Roll on Melbourne!!

HazzaHSV

15-03-2010, 09:27 AM

Yeah unfortunately a bit of a anti-climax that race, too processional. The biggest problem with F1 is the aero, as you can't get near another car to pass, even if you are 1-2 seconds a lap quicker. I thought the changes they made last year with the tiny rear wings and huge front wings would help, but it hasn't. Time to strip the aero and bring back kers.

gmack

15-03-2010, 09:32 AM

HazzaHSV

15-03-2010, 10:04 AM

Yeah its been obvious for the last few years that's why they tried to address it last year. Hasn't helped, and now with the heavy cars having to nurse tyres it has made it worse.

Marco

15-03-2010, 10:13 AM

It almost looks as though the only real overtaking opportunities this year will be in the mayhem of lap 1 - hopefully that's not true for the rest of the season!

I love seeing a good Ferrari 1-2, but this was a snoozefest.

QIKMIK

15-03-2010, 12:12 PM

If Bernie's idea was to make F1 more boring than after watching last nights race id say he's succeeded, i prey melbourne will be more exciting.

Bring back fuel stops, it was boring as watching paint dry heavy cars worn out tyres it was more a reliability trial not a sprint.Can't agree more. I was really looking forward to this race but I think the rule changes have killed it a bit. 170-odd litres of fuel and two sets of tyres....makes for careful, yet dull as dog shite racing. :toetap:

I thought Webber did ok. Almost shat myself with that smoke at turn one :eek: and gees, weren't they long laps. The Abu Dhabi circuit is nearly as long as Bathurst....and the F1 cars were doing 2min compared to 2:09 for a touring car at Panorama. I understand that they are different tracks but both have two quick sections and a series of corners (Mountain Straight, across the top and esses, then Conrod). Even the commentators said that they thought it would be a bit slower but nothing like this. Fastest race lap was nearly 6 seconds slower than qualifying.

Mick

VX2VESS

15-03-2010, 07:34 PM

The areo seems particularly critical this year. Fast cars could cattch up to the slower ones quickly but once they were within half a second they couldn't get close enough to make an overtake stick. This seemed fairly obvious from faily early in the race.

yes they need to fix this problem. stupid if faster cars can't overtake slower ones.

do something with the aero so cars are not effected as much when behind another one

the no fueling makes it worse as it take a variable out.

spank

15-03-2010, 08:27 PM

last year when i heard about the no refueling for this year i suspected it would take out an important strategic componant out of the race, and my fears were confirmed in the first race, the cars are too heavy for too long inho, im hoping that it was partly the track and that melbourne will be a better race.

VX2VESS

15-03-2010, 08:32 PM

spank

15-03-2010, 08:35 PM

while im having a sook, what was with all the hairloss/regrowth ads on one hd, says something about the expected viewers!

spank

15-03-2010, 08:39 PM

and they are probably too silly to see the error and reverse it this year.

great a year of whoever is in front stays there.

probably wouldnt dare to admit they have screwed it up, i dont think the teams would be too happy either, massive difference in the cars to fit the new approx 250 litre tanks!

VX2VESS

15-03-2010, 08:45 PM

probably wouldnt dare to admit they have screwed it up, i dont think the teams would be too happy either, massive difference in the cars to fit the new approx 250 litre tanks!

don't think teams would mind if it means a chance to get past a car instead of sit there and have to drop back for cooling purposes.

spank

16-03-2010, 11:51 AM

don't think teams would mind if it means a chance to get past a car instead of sit there and have to drop back for cooling purposes.

no, what i ment was the teams have just spent a lot of time and money to get the bigger fuel tanks into the cars and now after one race it seems like the racing is worse off, im sure they would like to have the fuel tank size from last season just not having to go thru the exercise!

shreksm

17-03-2010, 08:30 AM

Pretty dull and boring race IMO - agree totally with others here about the re-fuelling, bring it back. When the cars had different fuel loads etc it was much more exciting. That first race was just predictable. (apart from Vettel's problem)

mgygto

17-03-2010, 09:45 AM

F1 in the past 10 - 15 years has always been about qualifying not racing. I don't know why anyone is surprised with the result. Now its just more boring than the boring spectacle its been for many years. Yes every now and a gain there is a real "race" but that is unusual and it normally coincides with either rain or mechanical problems for one of the drivers. Its absolutely true that if you qualify on the front row you will win the race unless you do something stupid or your car fails. Now at least everyone can get some more sleep by just watching the first 2 laps and going to bed knowing who the winner is!

SS Enforcer

17-03-2010, 09:56 AM

Webber thinks the same as most of the comments hee regarding the race ....

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1027992

Formula One is in for one of its most boring seasons on record unless rules are modified, according to Australian Mark Webber.

Webber, who finished eighth for Red Bull behind winner Fernando Alonso in a Ferrari at the season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix at the weekend, has joined the outcry over the dreary spectacle.

With a ban on refuelling this season and pit stops limited to one a race, drivers reacted by producing an unbroken procession for fear of ruining tyres by pushing too hard or attempting to overtake.

Webber said the new rules drained the race of any potential excitement - and next week's Australian GP could end up being just as dull.

"It got pretty boring," Webber said.

"I spent 48 laps staring at a the gearboxes of first (Michael) Schumacher and then (Jenson) Button and there was nothing I could do to pass them.etc etc

cheers

benniemc

17-03-2010, 10:03 AM

Wow, that should make for an Entertaining day next Sunday. :(

I finally got around to watching the race as I taped it, I fast forwarded most of it, totally lack luster. I was hoping for a good competitive race with all the top teams having such good cars in practice etc, but I wasn't aware of the new pit rules. Talk about joy kills!

HazzaHSV

17-03-2010, 10:29 AM

A lot of people are concentrating on the lack of pit stops and re-fueling as being the catalyst for the boring racing, and sure it makes it worse, but I'll say it again, the primary problem is the fact that a car up to 2 seconds a lap faster cannot pass!!

Would you rather see passing in the pit lane (by changing the rules to have fuel stops), or passing on the track (by changing the rules to get rid of aero)? Everyone has got used to only seeing passing in pit stops in the last 10 years, but that's because due to the aero it is almost impossible to pass on the track.

Bernie started on the right track by banning abs, traction control etc and they tried to change the aero with the tiny rear wings last year, but the teams just got inventive with double diffusers and the like so the downforce is the same. Get rid of most of the aero and you get rid of the passing problem which gets rid of the boring problem IMO.

seldo

17-03-2010, 10:45 AM

It suddenly makes qualifying even more critical, and the first corner is do-or-die, because that's about where you will finish.
I'm afraid they've stuffed it - boring as

REDHOTLS3

17-03-2010, 10:57 AM

SS Enforcer

17-03-2010, 11:05 AM

It suddenly makes qualifying even more critical, and the first corner is do-or-die, because that's about where you will finish.
I'm afraid they've stuffed it - boring as

I guess that is the price for having everyone having similar setups possible that circuit racing doesn't really suit the stringent rules that govern them. Look at Nascar due to their big fast tracks cars with a tenth of a second advantage can pass which is often achieved by a small adjustment in tyre pressure.

Maybe the answer is bring back the turbo car option, last year with KERS at least the more powerful cars had a weight penalty which enabled lighter cars to pass em on some back straits.

Or they could make every driver pit for a Beer and a Kebab every 10 laps which ought to make things interesting after the 4th stop. :jester:

cheers

mgygto

17-03-2010, 11:51 AM

You cannot make F1 more exciting during the race unless you introduce artifical means (limited fuel, tyre changing etc etc) - it is beyond repair as a racing spectacle. They took the decision many years ago to make it a technical category rather than a racing category. The best technology for qualifying a car wins races. Simple as that. Now the design of the newer tracks is more about protecting the teams investment in cars (no tight corners, long straights, large run off areas etc) and this again means the tracks also do not force the drivers into situations where they have to compete, made even worse by the fact that the aero means you have to have a substantial advantage in power to even think about overtaking.
F1 is beyond repair, it has been for many years. Sure we could have multiple pit stops etc and for those that love to see races decided by someone overtaking in the pits fine, but again its not racing. You would have to revert to the designs of many years ago to change the aero on track and F1 are not going to do that because it takes away the "showcase" element. Watch it for what it is, great engineering, get to a live one if you can as the day is a great day, but don't waste your time watching the race expecting to see a couple of drivers dicing for the lead - unless it is raining! Maybe thats the answer , spray the tracks during each race!

VX2VESS

17-03-2010, 12:51 PM

remove most of the aero thats the issue slowing the car behind and overheating it. take that off give them bigger tyres again, thats simple enough.....

when i say off i mean off enough to prevent the issue, down to supercar standard perhaps, not so much they car drive upside down and suck fleas off dogs

hRTHSV

17-03-2010, 06:11 PM

Even though the times were close last year I acutally thought the KERS did a good job on the cars that had it and allowed a bit of overtaking. With differeing fuel and tyre strategies and qualififing with your race fuel then publishing the weights, I actually thought for the closeness (is that a word) of times the racing was some of the best and most unpredictable I have seen in F1 for many years.

Just my opinion.

SS Enforcer

18-03-2010, 11:04 AM

I agree with you Hrthsv KERS provided different racingh at different tracks like on the fast open circuits like Monza kers was a big advantage but on street circuits it didn't matter a lot. The teams had to have their strategies right regarding tyres and pitstops.

cheers

RRossi

27-03-2010, 12:33 PM

I have read this thread with great interest and agree with everything said, but at the end of the day I just really love the sport and have so since the days of Senna and Prost and to think its getting boring ......

Nah no way its all the off track dramas and team politics and reading F1.com along with the fight for qualifing to see whos quick whos taking the piss and who is just plain slow is great! it reallly does it for me and to see Ferrari back on track is making me go wet just thinking about it!

(Crosses Finger for another 1-2 lol)

FORZA FERRARI!!!!!!!!!!

RR

RARASV8

27-03-2010, 02:05 PM

how ca it be boring when an AUSSIE sets the fastest lap b4 Qualifying?
they can't match the redbull in sector 3!

GO MARK!!!!:goodjob:

Garry

benniemc

27-03-2010, 02:47 PM

Yeah, todays practice was awesome, shame about some of the slower cars holding up some of the big guys in hot laps.

Bring on Qualifying!

QIKMIK

28-03-2010, 07:08 AM

I'm guessing there has been a few advances made in the past couple of weeks. The cars have gone from 5-6 seconds below track records to beating them by 5 1/10ths.

Fingers crossed for Mark as the OneHD team were saying that the P2 spot may get better traction off the line.

Mick

SS Enforcer

28-03-2010, 01:26 PM

Theres going to be a good drag race to turn one IMHO so hopefully Webber can cut a good light and lead for a change.

What odds for a first lap mishap ?

cheers

Carby650

28-03-2010, 02:20 PM

Not being an F1 fan I don't watch a lot of races.
I do pay attention to the Melb race purely due to it being in Australia and with the hope that an Aussie might win it.
What I have seen the last couple of years is Webber getting taken out in some incident through no fault of his own. I feel sorry for him as it would be great for him to win his home race.
Lets hope for some home town luck this year.

cheers
Carby650

VX2VESS

28-03-2010, 06:51 PM

Carby650

28-03-2010, 07:20 PM

It was his fault, he even said it was after the race, said he lost downforce on the front and hit him.

i think he was trying to make a pass as at the same time Hamilton was up the inside.

The race was better than the last one, still have an issue with aero's, obvious at the end with 2 quicker cars unable to make a pass for 10 laps.

If you see the time of my post it was BEFORE his accident today. I was talking about what had happened in previous years.
Yes today he messed up.

cheers
Carby650

benniemc

28-03-2010, 07:25 PM

Todays race was fantastic! Heaps of action, and great for Jenson to win with the decision to risk pitting early for slicks!

I agree something needs to be done about the aero, if they can't get right behind a car without fear of spearing off the track due to lack of downforce something obviously isn't right with the car specs.

mgygto

29-03-2010, 06:59 AM

Hey I'm the first one to jump all over Webber but yesterday his team let him down badly ( and not for the first time) . I was in the pits when all of the teams pulled at least one of their cars in to change from wets - it was obvious from the timing data that Button who went to slicks first was taking seconds out of those on wets. Red Bull Racing left both of their cars on track for an extra lap which then meant on the next lap they had to make a choice of which car they were going to back to win as they could only pull 1 car in and whoever was left on track had to do another lap effectively costing them 6 - 9 seconds to those that had changed and as you saw they chose Vettal even though at that time Webber was closing on him and had greater car speed. Everything that happened after that was a result of taking Webber from second pushing for first to bottom half of the top ten. That team should hang their head in shame leaving both drivers circulating on wets .... compare that to the masterstroke of Vodafone McLaren of ptting Button early and then leaving him on track ..............................

VX2VESS

29-03-2010, 08:02 AM

Button was saying after the race that the team said they had slicks ready for him, he could come in 3 laps or whenever he wanted, he chose to take them then.

He wasn't sure he said when he came in as the pit lane was so wet, but it worked out.

Could have easily gone the other way and the rain increased instead and then they would need to pit again. i'd say thats why red bull was waiting, were not sure. but they have to take the gambles not wait and see, that's what happens if you wait you loose.

hRTHSV

29-03-2010, 08:18 AM

mgygto

29-03-2010, 01:18 PM

Yeah that's right if everybody behind you is pitting you need to cover them if you are leading, they should have pitted Weber or Vetel with everybody else then the other the next lap, probably would have remained first and second depending one pitted first as to which one was first after the stop. You are right. If Webber pits first based on standard stop and out at worst he is second after all the stops (inc Vettal) but probably is first depending on how Vettal goes with the extra lap. If Vettal goes first (a lap ahead of when he did) then he comes out first , Webber third at worst.........

HazzaHSV

29-03-2010, 01:46 PM

Hey I'm the first one to jump all over Webber but yesterday his team let him down badly ( and not for the first time) . I was in the pits when all of the teams pulled at least one of their cars in to change from wets - it was obvious from the timing data that Button who went to slicks first was taking seconds out of those on wets. Red Bull Racing left both of their cars on track for an extra lap which then meant on the next lap they had to make a choice of which car they were going to back to win as they could only pull 1 car in and whoever was left on track had to do another lap effectively costing them 6 - 9 seconds to those that had changed and as you saw they chose Vettal even though at that time Webber was closing on him and had greater car speed.
First time I have ever agreed with you mgygto, but I agree 100%! :goodjob:

mgygto

29-03-2010, 01:51 PM

First time I have ever agreed with you mgygto, but I agree 100%! :goodjob:
See we get there eventually :)

goofafidamedes

29-03-2010, 02:40 PM

VX2VESS

29-03-2010, 03:13 PM

Red Bull's strategists have consistently missed their opportunities and been caught with their pants down for last two seasons.

And now, in the year where they are probably best-placed to challenge for both championships, their lack of strategic prowess is plain for all to see.

It just means that the Vettel and Webber will both have to drive harder to nullify as much as possible that deficiency.
or try to override the calls or make them themselves if they can do any better.

wonder what Roy an HG (mmm radio) will say about the weekend, they have been bagging webber for years even last Friday making jokes about his claims of winning this one

seldo

29-03-2010, 03:53 PM

Hey I'm the first one to jump all over Webber but yesterday his team let him down badly ( and not for the first time) ...............................Very true! Mind you - he's also very good at wrenching defeat from the jaws of victory...

RARASV8

02-04-2010, 12:28 PM

if your bored!
http://jhontv.blogspot.com/2010/03/watch-fc-augsburg-vs-rot-weiss-ahlen.html

live coverage Malaysia with no voices,JUST ENGINE NOISE!

Garry

Bezerkr32

02-04-2010, 09:32 PM

i read somwhere that webz passed massa 5 times and still finished 9th....WTF.
must have been frustrating.
weather might play a part again this weekend.

rgmast

03-04-2010, 06:24 PM

qualifying on now on one SA anyway

RARASV8

03-04-2010, 06:46 PM

last quali on now http://www.p2pstation.net/

Garry

RARASV8

03-04-2010, 07:19 PM

Go webber!

X BC X

03-04-2010, 07:27 PM

great pole.....the gamble paid off

morey92

03-04-2010, 07:36 PM

Way to go Marky boy...pole again....and hopefully another win to follow. :goodjob:

QIKMIK

04-04-2010, 07:03 AM

Nice to see that Mark can string together a quick lap in the wet. IIRC, the commentators said that there was rain forecast for this afternoon as well.

Go Mark!

Mick

p.s. downloaded the free iPhone app from mobile.formula1.com. They have them for other mobile platforms as well. Gotta love live timing or at least I will at Grandma's this afternoon....don't think they're F1 fans :(

HazzaHSV

04-04-2010, 08:56 PM

iloveholden

05-04-2010, 12:46 PM

Bugger. Real lost opportunity today for Mark to notch up his 3rd victory. Was damn cursed again with the pitstop, but damage was already done with a little mistake at the start. Was definately the class of the field this weekend.

Yep totally agree, 2nd is a great result but really should have been his 3rd win this weekend. Oh well keep it up Mark.

mgygto

05-04-2010, 05:27 PM

Bugger. Real lost opportunity today for Mark to notch up his 3rd victory. Was damn cursed again with the pitstop, but damage was already done with a little mistake at the start. Was definately the class of the field this weekend.

Webber is the only "top" driver I can think of who would let his team mate (or anyone) go past him like that at the 1st corner of any GP. If that was Ferrari or McLaren the press would be screaming "team tactics" , because its Webber its half expected. He has the best car in the field, had one of the 2 best cars in the second half of last year and we still see his team mate beating the pants off him as well as a host of others. He will possibly fluke a GP victory this year but any other driver in that car would be smashing it !

BigAl83

05-04-2010, 05:52 PM

MrT

05-04-2010, 06:04 PM

God you guys talk some shit.... There are no team tactics this early in the year where both drivers have a fair chance at the title.. He would have conceeded positon due to not having the racing line covered.

He didnt deserve to win because he ****ed up, again.. He will win more races but he obviously has to be at the top of his game with the quality of field he is up against this year.

mgygto

05-04-2010, 06:57 PM

Vettel was a bit of a pr*ck pulling that move. Webber could turn in and take them both out or let Vettel through. If the situation was reversed I'd bet Vettel would crash them. Webber's too much of a team player for his own good.

Vettel was racing , Webber doesn't have that same racing instinct as you could tell yet again by the way he moved over to make the turn. Vettel wouldn't crash him because Vettel would not be dumb enough to move over to make the turn in the first place.

BigAl83

05-04-2010, 07:20 PM

Vettel was racing , Webber doesn't have that same racing instinct as you could tell yet again by the way he moved over to make the turn. Vettel wouldn't crash him because Vettel would not be dumb enough to move over to make the turn in the first place.
Webber said in the unilateral that when he last looked Vettel was far enough away for him to drive on line. Vettel braked late and relied on Webber to not crash him. If you read some of the interviews it seems Vettel was defensive and somewhat apologetic to Webber about the move.

QIKMIK

05-04-2010, 07:23 PM

Webber looked pretty gutted on the podium. I've never seen someone so pissed at being second.

Mick

RARASV8

05-04-2010, 08:59 PM

Webber looked pretty gutted on the podium. I've never seen someone so pissed at being second.

Mick

second sucks, the first loser! at least 3rd you think atleast i got on the podium.

damm i missed the race went out and had to many beers:bawl:

i'm sure Mark won't let that happen again

Garry

seldo

05-04-2010, 09:43 PM

Webber is the only "top" driver I can think of who would let his team mate (or anyone) go past him like that at the 1st corner of any GP. If that was Ferrari or McLaren the press would be screaming "team tactics" , because its Webber its half expected. He has the best car in the field, had one of the 2 best cars in the second half of last year and we still see his team mate beating the pants off him as well as a host of others. He will possibly fluke a GP victory this year but any other driver in that car would be smashing it !Sad, but true. Until Webber gets some mongrel into him Vettel and others will walk all over him and rely on him being a "nice" guy who will always back off...

VX2VESS

05-04-2010, 09:47 PM

Sad, but true. Until Webber gets some mongrel into him Vettel and others will walk all over him and rely on him being a "nice" guy who will always back off...

hasn't he tried that before and its ended in tears... even tried agressive blocking that everyone put shit on him for...

HazzaHSV

06-04-2010, 10:01 AM

Yes he erred on the side of caution, when he should have blocked his ass off - totally Webbers fault.

But the rest of your post is ridiculous. He does not have the best car in the field, he has one of the two best cars in the field, and the only driver to beat him was the other best car in the field and only because of a misjudgment in the first corner.

No, not any other driver would be smashing it in his car, proof is Vettel, the best driver in F1. Webber smashed him in qualy and would have easily pulled away if he had track position.

Fluke or not a win is a win. To me Vettel pulled off a fluke win this weekend, as did Button in Australia, as did Alonso in Bahrain. If you ran these first three GP's again, the results would be totally different IMO. Vettel would probably have won Bahrain and Australia, and Webber Singapore. But that's racing.

Point remains, he is World Class of which you said he wasn't and would never be, and most of his disappointments in the many years before last, were due to unreliable/crappy cars, not him being hard on equipment or a shit driver.

He has the best car in the field, had one of the 2 best cars in the second half of last year and we still see his team mate beating the pants off him as well as a host of others. He will possibly fluke a GP victory this year but any other driver in that car would be smashing it !

SS Enforcer

06-04-2010, 10:47 AM

Sad, but true. Until Webber gets some mongrel into him Vettel and others will walk all over him and rely on him being a "nice" guy who will always back off...

I agree in fact I suggested this very thing once before and got chewed out for it after Hamilton put him in his place last year. He reminds me of Damon Hill great driver but too carefull, Nigel on the other hand wouldn't have conceded the position, Vettel of course knows that Webber will back off maybe next time Mark should just punt him off the track then smack him. They may not get any points but will certainly get publicity which is what counts for Red Bull.

cheers

VX2VESS

06-04-2010, 11:26 AM

its hard to see those sneaking up behind, he said he knew he had two cars and was sure where they were and who to block.

should have just taken the best line and stayed on it

Vetal got a good start and a tow off mark, so was able to sling shot around

mgygto

06-04-2010, 11:45 AM

Yes he erred on the side of caution, when he should have blocked his ass off - totally Webbers fault.

But the rest of your post is ridiculous. He does not have the best car in the field, he has one of the two best cars in the field, and the only driver to beat him was the other best car in the field and only because of a misjudgment in the first corner.

No, not any other driver would be smashing it in his car, proof is Vettel, the best driver in F1. Webber smashed him in qualy and would have easily pulled away if he had track position.

Fluke or not a win is a win. To me Vettel pulled off a fluke win this weekend, as did Button in Australia, as did Alonso in Bahrain. If you ran these first three GP's again, the results would be totally different IMO. Vettel would probably have won Bahrain and Australia, and Webber Singapore. But that's racing.

Point remains, he is World Class of which you said he wasn't and would never be, and most of his disappointments in the many years before last, were due to unreliable/crappy cars, not him being hard on equipment or a shit driver.

:) for many years a number of you have been screaming that Webber was "unlucky" in that he did not have the cars to back up his "talent". Well he has had the best car in the field this year , had the fastest lap at 2 out of the 3 GP's , QF 2nd and Pole in 2 of them , has a car that for qualifying & racing & splits is faster than his team mates and he has an 8th, 9th, 2nd to his name...... eventually blind support for him runs out of excuses. That Turn 1 loss to Vettel says it all, time and again it shows why Mark , the "good" driver that he is , happens to be over-rated in this field.

mgygto

06-04-2010, 11:48 AM

I agree in fact I suggested this very thing once before and got chewed out for it after Hamilton put him in his place last year. He reminds me of Damon Hill great driver but too carefull, Nigel on the other hand wouldn't have conceded the position, Vettel of course knows that Webber will back off maybe next time Mark should just punt him off the track then smack him. They may not get any points but will certainly get publicity which is what counts for Red Bull.

cheers

The point really is that Webber should never have moved off the line he was on - no-one would have got past , he would have made the corner, no damage done, he leads the race - at least until turn 2!

HazzaHSV

06-04-2010, 12:11 PM

:) for many years a number of you have been screaming that Webber was "unlucky" in that he did not have the cars to back up his "talent".
He was unlucky :jester:.

And for many years a number of you have been screaming that he is a 'crap' driver and 'not world class' and that he shouldn't be in F1, and would probably never win a GP. And that all his failures had been because he was 'hard' on the cars or just didn't have the talent to drive fast.

Well he finally has had something other than a complete and utter 'lemon' and has had 2 GP wins and almost 10 podiums to his name, and many many fastest laps. Eventually blind criticism runs out and the truth shines through. It finally is and shows in his results. If you are trying to say that Webber is over rated because he came second, making a single mistake in the whole race, well thats just silly.

Oh and another thing, using his result in the last grand prix to help 'strengthen' your point when you yourself said it wasn't his fault at all, is more like a political backflip than anything else. :)

mgygto

06-04-2010, 12:21 PM

He was unlucky :jester:.

If you are trying to say that Webber is over rated because he came second, making a single mistake in the whole race, well thats just silly.

Oh and another thing, using his result in the last grand prix to help 'strengthen' your point when you yourself said it wasn't his fault at all, is more like a political backflip than anything else. :)

The point is the way Webber drives regardless of the car quality is why he has such a poor record in F1 , even with the best car he still struggles and I would make the point again that there isn't another top flight F1 driver that would have made the dumb mistake he made on the weekend - the sad thing is that type of driving is expected from Webber. At the end of the day the statistics will show that Webber has one of the worst conversion rates in F1 history and you can go off at me as much as you want his results after over 140 GPs are poor.

iloveholden

06-04-2010, 12:27 PM

He was unlucky :jester:.

And for many years a number of you have been screaming that he is a 'crap' driver and 'not world class' and that he shouldn't be in F1, and would probably never win a GP. And that all his failures had been because he was 'hard' on the cars or just didn't have the talent to drive fast.

Well he finally has had something other than a complete and utter 'lemon' and has had 2 GP wins and almost 10 podiums to his name, and many many fastest laps. Eventually blind criticism runs out and the truth shines through. It finally is and shows in his results. If you are trying to say that Webber is over rated because he came second, making a single mistake in the whole race, well thats just silly.

Oh and another thing, using his result in the last grand prix to help 'strengthen' your point when you yourself said it wasn't his fault at all, is more like a political backflip than anything else. :)

+1, i agree with all of your comments Hazza :goodjob:

hRTHSV

06-04-2010, 12:39 PM

At the end of the day the statistics will show that Webber has one of the worst conversion rates in F1 history and you can go off at me as much as you want his results after over 140 GPs are poor.[/QUOTE]

I agree he needs to harden up a bit but the above sentence is a bit wide of the mark considering the cars he's driven until last year. Look at Jensen BUTTON he had a similar track record until last year and if you believe Ruebens Jenson only beat him until they fixed the braking system to his liking then he consistantly beat Jenson.

We shouldn't forget that last year Christian HONER said he would design the car around VETEL as he was the way forward. So in reality the car may also have some traits that Mark doesn't like and makes him uncomfortable.

It may also be the case that unless he finds that last little bit for the entire race (which we know he has) and gets better results he may very well be replaced next year.

HazzaHSV

06-04-2010, 01:07 PM

The point is the way Webber drives regardless of the car quality is why he has such a poor record in F1 , even with the best car he still struggles
Sorry but that statement has proven to be incorrect I am afraid. Struggling is what Button and Mark (and many many others) did for 10 years with Lemons. Since last year they no longer struggle, they fight for GP wins and podiums as proven by the results. Yes he may not get his World Championship like Button did, but Vettel hasn't yet either, even though he had/has the best car too and is the best driver in F1. Webber IS a world class Formula 1 driver fullstop.

At the end of the day the statistics will show that Webber has one of the worst conversion rates in F1 history and you can go off at me as much as you want his results after over 140 GPs are poor.
All you really have to do is take away 5 or more of the 10 years in duds (most get a few seasons of their career in a dud unless your Lewis Hamilton), and his record isn't that bad at all.

HazzaHSV

06-04-2010, 01:24 PM

mgygto

06-04-2010, 01:37 PM

In fact Mr current glamour boy himself Jenson Button took 100 starts to get his first win and after 153 GP's only had 1 win to his name (2000-2008). If you take a look, since Webber started in F1 two years after Button, Webber's record is actually better than Button's 8 years in. And I dare say before the season is out Mark will have a couple more wins and 4 or more podiums hopefully.

Putting Webber and Button together in comparision really just confirms the point doesn't it. Webber has an appalling rate of converting qualifying to racing and race starts to podiums. And this nonsense about taking away years when he drove duds LOL .... lets petition those that keep the stats and ask for Mark to be treated differently in the stats coz he's an aussie and a nice guy and we like him ;) Even Red Bull have recognised that Vettel is the more likely chance for them this year with the way they have treated them both on track.....

HazzaHSV

06-04-2010, 01:44 PM

Putting Webber and Button together in comparision really just confirms the point doesn't it.
Yep confirms my point. Crap car, crap results, crap conversion rate. Thanks.

hRTHSV

06-04-2010, 01:57 PM

So how have they treated Vettel and Webber different on track? if you are talking about the pit stop order in Australia, well that was discussed on the grid on TV and was the same as almost any race team I have ever seen, first on track has preference. Not rocket sciece really.

I agree Webber needs to be a bit more aggresive in the first turn but in saying that in previous years he has been taken out in the first turn and last year was given a drive through for being overly aggresive with Baricheilo and nearly didn't take his first win.

He has one of the best and most promising drivers along side him in F1 and he is holding his own better than, say Lowdnes is against Whincup at this point in the year.

And yes he has been unlucky enough to spend more time in sihtbox F1 cars than many.

Carby650

18-04-2010, 01:07 PM

pmac

27-04-2010, 05:01 PM

Did anyone come across this today?

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/50229/f1-teams-close-to-agreeing-to-new-2013-engine-formula-new-chassis-confirmed-for-schumacher

if this happens moto gp will become my no1 favourite sport in 2013

BigAl83

27-04-2010, 05:09 PM

There were some highlight of practice / Qualifying on the news last night that I caught out of the corner of my eye.
One of the Red Bull cars had a massive front end explosion. Has anybody got a link or similar to that footage. Would love to see what happened.

cheers
Carby650
It was Buemi in the Torro Rosso. Insta-Canoe :lol:
YouTube- SÃ©bastien Buemi tire suspension crash China Shanghai April 16 2010

johno067

27-04-2010, 05:38 PM

Putting Webber and Button together in comparision really just confirms the point doesn't it. Webber has an appalling rate of converting qualifying to racing and race starts to podiums. And this nonsense about taking away years when he drove duds LOL .... lets petition those that keep the stats and ask for Mark to be treated differently in the stats coz he's an aussie and a nice guy and we like him ;) Even Red Bull have recognised that Vettel is the more likely chance for them this year with the way they have treated them both on track.....

Ahhh my old sparring partner is back hey Hazza, hey there mgygto, good to see you are back in action, we missed you:stick:

Funny how Vettel had to copy Webbers setup in China before qualifying....... mmmm fancy that, the new wonder boy copying a setup from a dud racer:goodjob:

mgygto

29-04-2010, 11:59 AM

Ahhh my old sparring partner is back hey Hazza, hey there mgygto, good to see you are back in action, we missed you:stick:

Funny how Vettel had to copy Webbers setup in China before qualifying....... mmmm fancy that, the new wonder boy copying a setup from a dud racer:goodjob: it just proves that Webber is a better test driver than a racer ;)
and of course he finished behind his teammate again ........

HazzaHSV

10-05-2010, 12:39 AM

it just proves that Webber is a better test driver than a racer ;)
and of course he finished behind his teammate again ........
Maybe not eh. Clearly the class of the world again tonight. Sure he had a kick ass car, but absolutely owned Vettel all weekend and won in a canter. Makes the championship very interesting.

WELL DONE MARK!!!

iloveholden

10-05-2010, 12:54 AM

Congratulations Mark Webber!!!

spank

10-05-2010, 01:12 AM

pretty much a faultless weekend, pole to flag! well done Mark!

vzss05

10-05-2010, 05:23 AM

it just proves that Webber is a better test driver than a racer ;)
and of course he finished behind his teammate again ........

I believe a serving of humble pie is in order.

As Mark Blundell said last night, his best race ever, he didnt just win he dominated the whole weekend. Well done Mark:goodjob:

johno067

10-05-2010, 07:18 AM

it just proves that Webber is a better test driver than a racer ;)
and of course he finished behind his teammate again ........

Spanish GP:

Qualifying P1
Race P1

Nuff said - bite me mgygto:rofl:

VX2VESS

10-05-2010, 08:37 AM

good race finally i did post at 11.50pm last night, but I was in the wrong thread, it was late lol..

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1723709&postcount=15

SS Enforcer

10-05-2010, 09:25 AM

Maybe not eh. Clearly the class of the world again tonight. Sure he had a kick ass car, but absolutely owned Vettel all weekend and won in a canter. Makes the championship very interesting.

WELL DONE MARK!!!

It was a top win by Webber again and really is going to make it an interesting championship especially that Hamilton didn't score a point last night .... pity about that one. :)

I still think F1 is all about the car and the backup team really and the driver at that level as long as he keeps it on the track isn't as big a factor as say MotoGp riders.

cheers

seldo

10-05-2010, 09:54 AM

it just proves that Webber is a better test driver than a racer ;)
and of course he finished behind his teammate again ........Hmmm. Would you like some sauce with that humble pie Mgy? ;)
Mind you of course, the season has a long way to go but Webber seems to have found some new determination. I look forward to the next race at Monaco which is one of Webber's favourites.

hoon69

10-05-2010, 10:47 AM

Webber leads Red Bull to victory at Spanish GP

By PAUL LOGOTHETIS (AP) – 1 hour ago

BARCELONA, Spain — Red Bull's Mark Webber secured a comfortable wire-to-wire victory at the Spanish Grand Prix on Sunday, while Ferrari's Fernando Alonso and Webber's teammate Sebastian Vettel filled out the podium after Lewis Hamilton crashed with one lap remaining.

Webber made it 10 straight winners from pole position at the Circuit de Catalunya after the Australian drove a flawless race for a 24-second victory over Alonso.

"It was a crucial pole," said Webber, who celebrated his third career victory by throwing his helmet into the stands. "I controlled the race."

Hamilton was second for most of the race before his tire blew out to send the McLaren driver into the wall shortly before the finish. Vettel took advantage to finish third for Red Bull despite running into the gravel after one of his brake pads blew out.

"Like it or not, I think it was a very lucky day," Vettel said. "Third is not a disaster, it's good points, but the result is difficult with how it came together. We were just lucky to bring the car home, to be honest."

Michael Schumacher of Mercedes was fourth after holding off McLaren's Jenson Button for the seven-time champion's best finish since his comeback to the sport this season.

Defending champion Button has 70 points to lead Alonso by three in the standings, while Vettel improved to 60 points and Webber 53.

"I'm happy, very happy to move up two spots," Spanish driver Alonso said. "This little gift was great for me, the team and the fans."

Although Webber eased to victory, a combination of driver error and mechanical faults made for a dramatic race for the two spots behind him.

Hamilton's front left tire blew out at turn 10 as he appeared to be cruising toward a second-place finish after overtaking Vettel during the first round of pit stops.

"I don't know what really happened — I just lost the steering and then the tire blew out," the British driver said.

Hamilton, who was set to move to within one point of Button, instead stayed stuck on 49 points after being classified 14th.

"It's not the result we wanted and it's not the result we really deserve," Button said. "It was very frustrating. Not a very good race."

Vettel benefited most from Hamilton's misfortune, after having dropped into fourth when Alonso overtook him as he changed tires after his late setback.

"A lot of things went wrong today," Vettel said. "I was not quick enough. I struggled a lot with the balance of the car today."

Webber jumped into the championship mix after Red Bull finally managed to convert a pole position to a victory. The team started first for the fifth straight race, but struggled with reliability problems in Bahrain and Australia, while Vettel overtook pole sitter Webber to win in Malaysia.

Webber made a perfect start this time while his three pursuers wove behind him looking for space to pass. The Australian driver held firm as Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso and the rest of the chasing pack got around the first corner without incident.

"It was quite tight into turn one and then I just settled into a rhythm and took care of the tires," Webber said. "A sensational effort from the whole team this weekend."

There were problems at the back of the grid, however, as Heikki Kovalainen of Lotus had to retire before the start with a gear box problem, and HRT driver Bruno Senna slid into a tire wall for an early exit. Pedro De la Rosa had to retire from his home race, leaving the Sauber team still without a point this season.

Schumacher's teammate Nico Rosberg was relegated to 17th after a botched pit stop that would ruin his day and see him finish 13th. The German driver has 50 points.

Webber and Hamilton pitted simultaneously, and the McLaren driver was then able to get in front of Vettel — who had a slow tire change earlier — as he returned to the track, holding his ground at the first corner to split up the Red Bull cars.

Schumacher started behind Button but made a nice pass as the two engaged in a battle for fifth, with Felipe Massa eventually sliding into the mix. The Ferrari driver would settle for sixth.

Schumacher showed little interest in battling for a podium spot, however, driving defensively the rest of the way to keep Button behind him. It was the first time Schumacher finished ahead of Rosberg this season.

"It was an interesting fight with Jenson but all I could do is try to not give him a possibility to overtake," Schumacher said. "We knew from the beginning there would not be a chance for us to compete for a podium place if everything goes as normal."

Adrian Sutil was seventh for Force India ahead of Robert Kubica of Renault, and Rubens Barrichello of Williams and Toro Rosso driver Jaime Alguersuari rounded out the top 10.

None of the teams can relax with the calendar's iconic street race in Monaco being raced next Sunday.

"Everyone's pushing to the limit," Webber said. "Unfortunately I can't get too drunk tonight because we have to be at the track on Wednesday."

A moment of silence was observed for Juan Antonio Samaranch before the start of the 66-lap race. The former International Olympic Committee president died at age 89 last month.was seriously a great drive by WEBBER and his TEAM MATE

QIKMIK

10-05-2010, 11:52 AM

I look forward to the next race at Monaco which is one of Webber's favourites.Agree with that one.

Webber in Spain...never bettered! Much more reserved post victory than Germany last year. What was that quote again..."Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Firkin Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes!"

Mick

hoon69

16-05-2010, 10:03 AM

Mark Webber takes Monaco pole

RRossi

16-05-2010, 10:33 AM

Webber did a really good job again to grab pole aheah of his team mate, who seems to be struggling a bit,

but would have loved to have seen my main main ALONSO in Qualifing as he was the one to beat all weekend being the fastest in P1 & P2 an to have Massa in Fourth shows the Ferrari are on pace,

Its also interesting when Ferrari anounce interest in driver like Kubica they seem to break through into the top 5 lol??

It going to be an intresting race!!

FORRZA FERRARI!!

RR

HEKYEH

16-05-2010, 10:41 AM

Pole position is very critical at Monaco....so fingers crossed Webber doesn't screw it up...*knock on wood*

Back to back wins are on the cards....LET'S GO WEBBER!!!!!!!!!!

oranpark_addict

16-05-2010, 12:01 PM

C'mon C'mon C'mon! Hopefully he can. I just got to keep myself awake to see it lol

QIKMIK

16-05-2010, 05:10 PM

Stayed up out bush at Reserves last night watching the qualifying telemetry of the iPhone. GO MARK!!

Mick

GEN4LS2

16-05-2010, 08:08 PM

Go webber!!!

spank

16-05-2010, 08:57 PM

go Webber ! hope to see some more of the aussie flag tonight
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/spankGTO/webber.jpg

v8dude78

16-05-2010, 10:20 PM

Did anyone else see the in car camera of the pace car oh the sound it was making :bow::bow::bow::bow: those things are simply amazing

spank

16-05-2010, 10:24 PM

yeah , loved it, apart from mark leading best part of the race! :)

v8dude78

17-05-2010, 12:01 AM

Pole leads from start to finish and leading the drivers championship does it get any better well done mark webber

HazzaHSV

17-05-2010, 12:25 AM

Well you bloody beauty MARK!!!!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!

Another demolition of the best in the world!! Cream of the crop bar none again. Well done. What a historic race to win, everyone rates it the best GP to win and now the Aussie flag has flown there again after 50 years and Mark goes on the honour board.

And to top it off, Championship leader to boot.

seldo

17-05-2010, 01:12 AM

johno067

17-05-2010, 07:24 AM

A great win and good to see him serve it up to Vunder-Kid Vettel. Also, young Daniel Riccardo from Perth won the Formula Renault race.

Yep, what a day for Aussie motorsport, double pole and double flag to flag wins by Daniel and Mark.......WOOOO HOOOOO BLOODY RIPPER.

OH..........WHERE ART THOU MGYGTO:fishing::lmao:

hRTHSV

17-05-2010, 08:44 AM

iloveholden

17-05-2010, 11:50 AM

Mark Webber you champ! I really hope this form can continue ;-)

Tyre biter

17-05-2010, 04:29 PM

What does everyone think of the pass by Schumacher on Alonso on the last lap, looked fair but he has been penalised by the Stewards and Damon Hill the driving standards advisor.

Nice 'even-up' on Hill's part...

Cheers, TB

QIKMIK

17-05-2010, 04:44 PM

Just watched the race this afternoon. Another masterful performance from Mark and as stated on the commentary, a historic day in Australian sport. First since Sir Jack Brabham to win the Monaco GP, first since Alan Jones to lead the driver's championship.

Fingers crossed that the season continues to be successful for Mark. We'll see how the new 'upgrades' for Red Bull go for the Turkish GP at the end of the month.

Mick

HazzaHSV

17-05-2010, 04:53 PM

Nice 'even-up' on Hill's part...
It would seem so at first glance, and I had a little chuckle thinking it was, but the transgression is clearly stated in the rules. The commentators got it wrong too. If it had been any other lap apart from the last, it would have stood.

Schumacher passed Alonso just as the safety car pulled in at the end of Lap 78. The FIA stewards, which included his old sparring partner Damon Hill, have deemed the German breached Article 40.13 of the Sporting Regulations, which states that “if the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

hRTHSV

17-05-2010, 07:18 PM

It would seem so at first glance, and I had a little chuckle thinking it was, but the transgression is clearly stated in the rules. The commentators got it wrong too. If it had been any other lap apart from the last, it would have stood.

Apparently the race went green though, surely it should have stayed yellow.

HazzaHSV

17-05-2010, 11:51 PM

Apparently the race went green though, surely it should have stayed yellow.
Yeah to be honest I am not sure the marshal's knew about the rule either. Probably should have finished under yellows.

HazzaHSV

17-05-2010, 11:53 PM

OH..........WHERE ART THOU MGYGTO:fishing::lmao:
And this is the problem with most of the Webber bashers johno. Front and centre when he is in a crap car doing badly or makes a mistake, but hiding under a rock when he is creaming all the so called 'real F1 drivers'.

Frankster_P

18-05-2010, 12:06 AM

Well Ferrari got some decent points, so not bad.
Alonso thrid in the championship.
Watching him come through the field was cool.

seldo

18-05-2010, 12:25 AM

Great win by Webber, he's really dominated the last 10 days, hopefully he can keep it up. :bow:

What does everyone think of the pass by Schumacher on Alonso on the last lap, looked fair but he has been penalised by the Stewards and Damon Hill the driving standards advisor. Obviously green flag doesn't mean green flag anymore??. Obviously everyone else thought it was race to the flag or they wouldn't have risked the car trying to get out of the last corner.They need to learn the rules.
The rules state:
Article 40, Par.13: "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit-lane on the last lap and the cars will take the chequered-flag as normal without over-taking."

VYSHSV8

18-05-2010, 12:37 AM

They need to learn the rules.
The rules state:
Article 40, Par.13: "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit-lane on the last lap and the cars will take the chequered-flag as normal without over-taking."

100% correct Seldo as usual:), don't listen to the commentators half of them wouldn't know what a paragraph is :lol:

Unless the have changed the rules recently this rule still applies

Bezerkr32

18-05-2010, 03:14 AM

Ross Brawns point of view......interesting

YouTube- Formula One 2010: Brawn defends Schumacher's overtake of Alonso at the Monaco GP

Souljah

18-05-2010, 08:03 AM

hRTHSV

18-05-2010, 09:01 AM

But didn't Ross Brawn have screen shots from the incar camera clearly showing a marshal waving a green flag before he made that pass?
What was shoe meant to do? Green means go... Perhaps F1 should admit that someone possibly stuffed up on their end and come to a compromise. Reinstate shoe to where he was before he made the pass?

Yeah that's right, the officials said the track was clear and the safety car was coming in, I understand they don't want them to finish behind the safety car but green flag means race in everything I have ever seen or raced in. What does the rule say about the flags?????

johno067

18-05-2010, 12:26 PM

And this is the problem with most of the Webber bashers johno. Front and centre when he is in a crap car doing badly or makes a mistake, but hiding under a rock when he is creaming all the so called 'real F1 drivers'.

This might get him out from under that rock Hazza:)

As I have seen on other forums, now they are saying anyone could win in that car, and I am sure they could, with the omission of maybe a hand full of drivers, most of them deserve to be in F1 and are capable of winning races given the right equipement.

Funny though, if anyone could win in that car, then why hasn't Vettel in the last two races????? Webber is now driving in the best form of his racing career, and it seems he really has a handle on the RB6. I am sure it will ebb and flow between he, Vettel and a few of the other drivers, but at the moment he has been untouchable in the last two races, and with some of his other fav tracks still to come, he has the chance to keep it going.

While it's still up, how was this for a pole lap, especially through turns 13 and 14, ballsy stuff:

YouTube- Webber Pole Lap Monaco

2001 ITR

28-05-2010, 08:59 AM

Uh Oh. This could explain Vettel’s recent slump compared to MW.

Regardless I am still a Webber fan I believe that he deserves to be there and would’ve had more wins with better cars in his career

Source: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22279.html

Vettel To Drive New Chassis In Turkey
Red Bull Racing will field a new chassis for Sebastian Vettel in the Turkish GP meeting starting on May 28.
After examining the race cars back at its Milton Keynes premises on the return from Monaco, Red Bull has said that Vettel's car was discovered to have an undisclosed 'defect' and that the German will drive a new car in round 7 of the championship.
Vettel has been outpaced in the last two races, Barcelona and Monaco, by team mate Mark Webber and has been unhappy with his car balance. He has driven the same monocoque – chassis number three – all season.
The first RB6 chassis was used for pre-season testing, chassis number two was Webber's Bahrain race car and, after that, the Australian has used chassis number four.
After Vettel started the season the stronger of the two drivers, but Webber now has two victories to his team mate's one and they have had three pole positions each. They currently top the championship table with 88 points each.

Marco

29-05-2010, 10:14 PM

...and a third P1 in a row for Webber!

seldo

29-05-2010, 10:19 PM

Yep - for the third race in a row Webber has beaten the Vunderkid Vettel for pole!
All the knockers and nay-sayers might finally stand up and give Webber his due.
If he wins this weekend - he's on the way to his his first WDC........ finally...!
But - without wanting to put the mockers on him - he has had car problems this weekend starting with a blown engine in 1st practise...:shock:

Marco

29-05-2010, 10:21 PM

Wouldn't stress too much about that engine, apparently it was about 50km away from the end of its expected design life, so it more or less went bang right on cue.

seldo

29-05-2010, 10:23 PM

Wouldn't stress too much about that engine, apparently it was about 50km away from the end of its expected design life, so it more or less went bang right on cue.True enough...but it's also interesting to note that despite Vettel's old chassis excuse, he's still behind Webber.. :)

BigAl83

29-05-2010, 10:24 PM

A great result especially considering his faultering start to the weekend. Fingers and toes crossed here for the MW hat-trick.
Also nice to keep those nay sayers quiet.

:goodjob:

VX2VESS

29-05-2010, 10:39 PM

hopefully he makes it again

RRossi

29-05-2010, 11:09 PM

A great result especially considering his faultering start to the weekend. Fingers and toes crossed here for the MW hat-trick.
Also nice to keep those nay sayers quiet.

:goodjob:

I say hats off to Webber, but what shits me is all you skips bagged him for always crashing and now hes doing well eveyones jumped on the band wagon?

Im a Ferrari Man through thick and thin, Forza Ferrari!!!

shame Alonso only managed 12th but with news Massa will have another year with Ferrari he may do well this race but I think the top 3 will make an early lead and the rest will be playing catch up....

Just my 2 c for what its worth.

RR

BigAl83

29-05-2010, 11:25 PM

Mate, I can't speak for anyone else but I've been on the bandwagon the whole time. From the Le-Mans backflips in his Merc to Minardi > Jaguar > Williams and now Red Bull, I've got the merchandise to prove it.

It's been a frustrating hobby for most of those years so it's bloody great to finally see some cream. So kindly take your stereotyping elsewhere.
:slap:

HazzaHSV

30-05-2010, 02:04 AM

I say hats off to Webber, but what shits me is all you skips bagged him for always crashing and now hes doing well eveyones jumped on the band wagon?
Sorry mate most of us here have been through all the blood, sweat and tears. Look back through the Webber threads over the years and you will see most of us well and truly on the bandwagon. Being a Queanbeyanite myself, I have followed him through Formula Ford, Sports Cars, and all of his years in Formula 1, knowing that one day he would get rid of his shocking bad luck, and prove himself the best driver in the world.

There's a few others around here though that have been bagging him the whole time, and have seemingly vanished now that they have been proven stupidly wrong.

BanPC

30-05-2010, 06:51 AM

Woooohooooo pole again... can't watch the start now, have to wait till lap 3/4..

hoon69

30-05-2010, 09:26 AM

I say hats off to Webber, but what shits me is all you skips bagged him for always crashing and now hes doing well eveyones jumped on the band wagon?

Im a Ferrari Man through thick and thin, Forza Ferrari!!!

shame Alonso only managed 12th but with news Massa will have another year with Ferrari he may do well this race but I think the top 3 will make an early lead and the rest will be playing catch up....

Just my 2 c for what its worth.

RRI have been one of these i up till 2010 said similar things about him and rightfully so his hasnt shined very much in the ten years or whatever his been in the game and now his doing well,WELL im starting to take a interest in the sport again and thats a good thing it just shows that when the stars align and the cards are right things do eventually go your way.

i've paid more attention in 2010 to F1 then i have in a decade and its all because a Aussie is taking it to the world.

In-form Mark Webber continues pole roll with fastest time in Turkey
From correspondents in Istanbul, Turkey
May 29, 2010
Mark Webber has completed a hat-trick of pole positions by clocking the fastest time for Red Bull in qualifying for this weekend's Turkish Grand Prix.

The 33-year-old has now claimed four poles this season and five in his career and the Red Bull team have taken all seven this year.

He will be chasing a hat-trick of victories in the 58-lap race as he bids to jump clear at the top of the scrap for the drivers' title.

Webber is currently leading on 78 points level with his 22-year-old German team-mate Sebastian Vettel, who qualified third behind McLaren's Lewis Hamilton.

Hamilton's fully-committed effort meant he split the Red Bull pacesetters and claimed a front row start for the first time this year.

Webber was satisfied after a struggle to find a good set-up at the Istanbul Park circuit.

"It hasn't been the smoothest of weekends for us in terms of getting the running in. Getting ready for 'quali' things started to get a little bit better,'' he said.

"I was a little bit on the back foot going in to be honest, but I knew if I dug deep it could be OK. And it worked out for us.

"I'm a little bit more confident for tomorrow to be honest.''

Hamilton's McLaren team-mate and defending champion Jenson Button was fourth ahead of Michael Schumacher who spun off the circuit and into the gravel on his final fast lap in qualifying.

"Fourth is not too bad, but the last lap was frustrating. Being the last car is sometimes a good thing, but there's more chance of someone going off ahead - and Michael Schumacher went off in front of me," Button said.

"I saw the yellow flag and decided to come in. We are a lot closer to Red Bull than I expected. My biggest problem is turn eight and I think we've run the car too low. We'll have a lot of fuel on board for tomorrow so it will be tough.''

Schumacher's Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg was sixth ahead of Robert Kubica of Renault with Felipe Massa eighth for Ferrari. His team-mate, Fernando Alonso, was only down in 12th.

Kubica's Renault team-mate Vitaly Petrov was ninth and Kamui Kobayashi 10th for Sauber.

spank

30-05-2010, 07:26 PM

good onya Webber, the car is obviously quick and he and the team have come to terms with it, in formula 1 you can have the best car, driver or team but it takes all 3 to come together to do what they are doing :goodjob:

Marco

30-05-2010, 09:28 PM

I have to admit I've only followed F1 seriously since the 08 season, so I hadn't given Webber a lot of thought until last year (in the same way that I didn't give Button much thought until he started winning either). I'd kind of assumed he was good (you have to be to be in F1...) but not a front runner. Seems now that, as with Button, part of it was a matter of needing the machinery to match your talent.

Does make you wonder what some of the other current midfielders would be capable of if they were given a top-level drive.

oranpark_addict

30-05-2010, 11:13 PM

WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF! WTF!
:flipoff:RAGE:flipoff::vpo:

VX2VESS

30-05-2010, 11:14 PM

webber vettel 1-2 vettel overtakes goes right on webber and take them both off, webber recovers in 3rd so far

BigAl83

30-05-2010, 11:19 PM

And they say Webber's got no fight in him.
;)

v8dude78

30-05-2010, 11:24 PM

oranpark_addict

30-05-2010, 11:36 PM

Oh well third isnt too bad a recovery.

VX2VESS

30-05-2010, 11:42 PM

Vettels a goose turns too soon, why should webber move more off line he left enough room for him.

at least he had some luck on that recovery and not much damage.

And a handy points lead now :)

they won't be on speaking terms the rest of the year now, they already were giving each other looks before this.
can't wait to here webbers view on next

v8dude78

30-05-2010, 11:54 PM

Did ya see webber telling hamlton what happened classic

Evman

30-05-2010, 11:57 PM

'Were you feeling confident that you had the win up until then?'

'Yeah. Yeah I did.'

Damn straight he had it. Credit to him for staying very professional in the interview.

goofafidamedes

31-05-2010, 12:03 AM

Did ya see webber telling hamlton what happened classic

I love the hand movement... the left hand smacking the right.

Ah classic... these things happens.

HazzaHSV

31-05-2010, 12:10 AM

Scheissekopf!!!!!!!!! Damn him. Bloody hell, Webber shows him the outside, gives him 3 car widths there, wonderbaby decides he wants the 1 car width down the inside, and then realising he has the dirty line with no chance to make the corner, decides he really wanted the outside afterall so shoves over there. PEANUT!! Either take the outside, or don't, and if you don't, bloody well run wide and be done with it.

oranpark_addict

31-05-2010, 12:12 AM

I love the hand movement... the left hand smacking the right.

Ah classic... these things happens.

hahaha. You can just imagine Hamilton. So Mark, what happend?:rofl:

BossV8

31-05-2010, 12:19 AM

Vettel's gonna feel like a little schoolkid after the talking to he will cop off most of the team. Like Webber said, it was still a long way off the end of the race, no need for a move like that. I think it shows Vettel is showing some jealousy with a move where he did it and the closeness of the passing move. Usually team mates give each other more racing room.

At least by Vettel crashing out Webber has a bigger lead

-GTS-

31-05-2010, 12:55 AM

Vettel is an absolute tool! :flipoff:

Clearly all his fault, he just can't handle the fact that his team mate is doing better than him at the moment. He has no sportmanship towards Mark at all... Look at Lewis and Jenson - They shook hands and congratulated eachother, you never see that from Vettel.

Well done Mark in any case, still leading the championship :goodjob:

It would be interesting to see what Vettel has to say......

Bring on Montreal :)

Buckd1ch

31-05-2010, 01:01 AM

Hamilton reckons he had no idea what happened between Vettel and Webber. As soon as they start interviewing Button, Hamilton proceeds to draw an invisible picture on the table for Webber with his hands as to what he saw :rofl:. He would have had the best view of anybody on track at the time...

iloveholden

31-05-2010, 01:34 AM

I just want to say it was great to see Mark Webber fight on for a podium finish....WTF Vetel!

Small but now a handy lead in the championship now Mark. I think i speak for us all when i say.....COME ON WEBBER!!! :goodjob:

Early days though :)

SS Enforcer

31-05-2010, 02:24 AM

Going to be very hard for Vetel now as he will be rather chastened after this event. Clearly his fault and good to see Webber having a proper go and not giving in like he used to.

Wern't the Mclarens quick ?

cheers

iloveholden

31-05-2010, 02:30 AM

Red Bull turns on Webber after accident

ESPNF1 Staff
May 30, 2010

Red Bull's advisor Helmut Marko has backed Sebastian Vettel after a crash with team-mate Mark Webber in the Turkish Grand Prix cost the team a potential 1-2 finish.

Webber said Vettel had turned into him during the overtaking manoeuvre, but team advisor Helmut Marko pointed a clear finger of blame at the Australian and his race engineer Ciaron Pilbeam.

"Webber was slower and Vettel had immense pressure from Hamilton," Marko said on German television RTL. "Unfortunately, Mark was not told about the situation accurately by his race engineer."

"He [Webber] had radioed the pits to say he was slower on the straights. He knew the situation and had just been informed about the pressure Hamilton was putting on [Vettel]. Vettel was so much faster that he had to pass. If Webber and he had braked together, then Hamilton would have passed Vettel."

Christian Horner was more balanced and told the BBC: "From a team perspective I'm really disappointed because the team had done everything right. We'd outstrategied the McLarens, who were strong today …. to see both cars touch each other was really disappointing.

"I've spoken to Sebastian, he got a run and they should never had been where they were. It's really disappointing for the team. It's cost them a lot of points. The priority is to beat the other teams and today we handed 43 points on a plate to McLaren. The team really deserved to win this race. We need to sit down, go through it and come back stronger at the next event."

Horner had said that while he had no issues with his drivers taking each other on, the onus was for them to do so sensibly and not to do anything which put either of them at risk. "What we always ask is that the drivers give each other room," he said. "Today neither yielded, and the result was the team losing a lot of points, Mark losing a lots of points and Sebastian losing a lot of points … the net result is everybody loses."

Referring to the nip-and-tuck battle between the McLarens of Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button a few laps later, Horner said that "they raced each other and they gave each other space, and that's what we ask".

Rubbish..:vpo:

aratic

31-05-2010, 08:06 AM

So just because Mark was slightly slower on straights means he has to let Vettel have first spot? Bull sh1t!

Martin_D

31-05-2010, 08:17 AM

It was only via good luck that the McLarens didnt end up the same way :)

QIKMIK

31-05-2010, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by iloveholden

"He [Webber] had radioed the pits to say he was slower on the straights. He knew the situation and had just been informed about the pressure Hamilton was putting on [Vettel]. Vettel was so much faster that he had to pass. If Webber and he had braked together, then Hamilton would have passed Vettel."Yet by the end of the race, Mark set the fastest lap and the McLarens were running out of fuel... Even if Seb had got passed Mark, the 1-2 would have kept the team on top. Glad Mark is still top of the drivers table.

Observation about Vettel from a mate via SMS:
He's going to get a great welcome in Melbourne next year! Hope he brings a food tester...

Mick

HSVREDSLED

31-05-2010, 08:42 AM

Vettel should have faked left, then overtook on the right. Webber left a truck sized space on the right which was also the best line for the next corner.

Vettel was carrying waaaay more speed than Webber at the time and hard to blame him for attempting something....but he made the wrong choice. It also looked like Vettel had second thoughts about it halfway past Webber and then slowed. Inexperience. If he decided to take this route, committ and easily fly past Webber then pray he could slow for the next corner on the dirty surface.

All that aside, Vettel turned in on Webber and Webber was simply holding his line. Vettel at fault.

Check 1.17

YouTube- Vettel - Weber crash in GP Turkey 30.5.2010

goofafidamedes

31-05-2010, 08:44 AM

Horner is a lying dog... Webber hadn't screwed anything up (other that missing one apex) the entire race and was down what looked to be 20 kph down on the back straight. He would/should have known that Mark had been told to turn his engine down, knowing full well that the instruction had not yet been given to Seb.

He's got headphones and more computer screens than most public schools for a reason, about time he used the fkn things!

See http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48543

To particularly quote the article:

When it was put to Horner that it was surprising Vettel had managed to get alongside Webber when Hamilton had been unable to do so throughout the first stint – despite the McLaren’s clear straightline speed advantage – he initially insisted the German had simply got a particularly strong exit from turn nine.
“You could see that Sebastian had a pace advantage,” he said.
“I think Mark wasn’t quite as happy on that set of prime tyres.
“Both guys were in the same engine mode, but one got a tow and the benefit of the tow was enough to put him alongside.”

However, Webber indicated that wasn’t the whole story when in the post-race press conference he advised journalists to “dig more” to understand why he had suddenly fallen into Vettel’s clutches.

After a team debrief Horner later revealed that Webber had turned his engine down into a fuel-saving mode on the lap in question, which was what enabled Vettel to pick up his slipstream so early on the straight.
It seems Vettel had been able to save an extra kilogramme of fuel as a result of having spent the race in the slipstream of other cars, and therefore was able to run one extra lap flat-out – which meant lap 40 gave him a potentially make-or-break opportunity to pass his team-mate.

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 09:56 AM

Looking at that footage a few times now.

At the point they hit Webber was at least 2 car widths off the race line to the left squeezing Vettel onto that side of the track. you can see Hamilton behind much further over to the right, and as they hit the dark racing line over on the right, webber did turn away at this point but maybe just to go back to the racing line.

If Webber was instructed to let him past then it was clear he didn't. If he wasn't told to do that its Vettels fault, I'm sure vettel would have cover his position s well

Hopefully it doesn't make Mark give in too easy next time.

Hamilton would know he was right behind them.

pmac

31-05-2010, 10:12 AM

Marko, Horner Blame Webber And Engineer For Crash

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/50376/f1-drama-turkey-f1-grand-prix-as-red-bulls-collide-marko-and-horner-blame-webber-and-engineer

if thats Marko and Horners view then i think mark should look for a new team next year because that is absolute bulls**t.

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 10:17 AM

all very suspicious, if they were worried about Hamiltion overtaking him then why put webber on fuel save at that time...

graph

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/charts/201007rl56.html

After the race the BBC reported rumours that Vettel was instructed to turn his engine up to get a power boost before the crash – and Webber had received the opposite instruction to turn his engine down at the same time.
It’s understandable that Red Bull would have wanted to help Vettel maintain his advantage over Hamilton. But with Vettel so close to Webber surely they would have realised it would leave Webber vulnerable to being overtaken by his team mate?

johno067

31-05-2010, 10:25 AM

Picture tells a thousand words guys:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj179/Huey067/incident.jpg

If they had to turn down webbers engine (and apparently Vettels the lap after), Horner should have told them both what was going on and told them to hold station. I don't buy into the Hamilton was going to overtake Vettel crap.

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 10:35 AM

and the racing line is on the other side of the track in those photos..

heard that Mark was told to turn the engine down and I don't know if Vettel did, he seemed very quick in a straight line," world champion Button said.

Red bull gave Vettel an advantage and he took it

HSVREDSLED

31-05-2010, 10:40 AM

How long is Vettel on contract until? I know that Webber is up this year. If Vettel is on contract longer, then it is more advantageous for Vettel to be world champ.

Maybe this is the 'dig deeper' quote Webber was alluding to?

EDIT

Aha...here it is.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vettel-s-switch-to-ferrari-unlikely-says-red-bull-advisor-20618.html

Vettel has an extra year than Webber. More advantageous to extend Webbers contract if he IS NOT world champ.

benniemc

31-05-2010, 10:42 AM

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at the post race debrief behind closed doors....

I totally forgot the race was on so I didn't even record it!

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 10:44 AM

How long is Vettel on contract until? I know that Webber is up this year. If Vettel is on contract longer, then it is more advantageous for Vettel to be world champ.

Maybe this is the 'dig deeper' quote Webber was alluding to?
maybe

Webber hasn't been renewed either yet, you would think they owuld have done that already based on his performance, so maybe they are not going to.

Evman

31-05-2010, 10:47 AM

If Webber wasn't given instructions to let Vettel pass then he is well within his rights put a bit of pressure on him. Put simply if Vettel hadn't turned right into Webber then they both should have made it through without incident anyway.

Did they collide as a direct result of Webber giving Vettel the squeeze? No.

Did they collide as a direct result of Vettel turning into Webber? Yes.

Seems to me that there's some favouring going on in Red Bull.

seedyrom

31-05-2010, 10:54 AM

http://www.anf1blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/vettel-webber-crash-copy.jpg

seldo

31-05-2010, 11:00 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that vettel turned into Webber. Sure - Webber was squeezing him a bit, but that's fair enough - they aren't out there to ferk spiders...
This seems to me to show quite definitevely that Vettel has a bit of right-lock on and so does Webber as he tries to turn away.
http://www.anf1blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/vettel-webber-crash-copy-1024x634.jpg (http://www.anf1blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/vettel-webber-crash-copy.jpg)
If you compare the steering wheel positions of both cars you can see that both are turning slightly to the right - Vettel to turn into Webber, and Webber to turn away from him. Also - look at the distance from Vettel's car to the track edge in top and bottom photos.

seldo

31-05-2010, 11:02 AM

Ahh - beat me to it Seedy..;)

HSVREDSLED

31-05-2010, 11:07 AM

Nice pics.

There you have it.

I still reckon there was ample room down the right for a pass.

YouTube- Vettel - Weber crash in GP Turkey 30.5.2010

If you freeze this vid at 1.19 Webber is on the far left and sees Vettel twitch right, so rather than head to the right to the racing line, he moves a car width right and holds position. If Vettel then twitched left then right he easily overtakes on the right and is on the racing line.

Freeze at 1.20 and tell me with the speed of Vettel he could not have swamped down the right.

Evman

31-05-2010, 11:16 AM

I just clicked. Vettel wasn't on fuel saver mode despite Webber being told to have it on. Vettel was "under immense pressure" from Hamilton and thus "needed" to pass Webber, but that would have just shifted the "immense pressure" to Webber anyway.

What a bunch of dogs.

goofafidamedes

31-05-2010, 11:42 AM

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=123539987680446

Join away...

Invite your friends.

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 12:41 PM

Red Bull
Mark Webber (3rd)
“Sebastian had a bit of a top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side. I was surprised when he came right suddenly, as I was holding my racing line. It happened very, very fast and it’s a shame for the team. Not an ideal day. The McLarens were solid and it was a good race between all four of us up at the front until then, neither of us wanted to make contact with each other. It’s obviously not ideal, but it happened. There was a long way to still go in the race, but that was an interesting few metres on the track between both of us. In the end it wasn’t the result that either of us wanted. We’ve got great character in our team and two fast drivers at the front - we’re not dicing for 15th and 16th - we’re going for victories so there’s clearly a lot at stake. I’ll have a chat with Sebastian about it, we might have a difference of opinion but we’ll be adults about it and press on.”

Sebastian Vettel (DNF)
“If you watch it on the TV, you can see what happened. I’m not in the happiest of moods. I was on the inside going into the corner. I was there, I was ahead and focusing on the braking point and then we touched. Mark’s car hit my rear right wheel and I went off – there’s not much more to say. We were all on the same pace during the race, I think I was a bit quicker than Mark for two or three laps, I was catching him and thought I could get him on the back straight. I was very close and passed him on the left, that’s the story. This is something that happens, no one needs it, but there’s not much you can do now.”

Christian Horner, Red Bull team principal
“It’s disappointing for the team to have got into that position today. The one thing I always ask the drivers is that, yes, they can race each other, but give each other room, and that’s exactly what didn’t happen. They were too far over on the left, Sebastian got a run on the inside of Mark, but then came across too early. They didn’t give each other room; it’s as simple as that. It was a massively close race between us and the McLarens up until that point. We managed to get ourselves ahead with a better pit-stop and a better strategy for Sebastian and were first and second. Sebastian was a bit happier on the prime tyre than Mark and was looking quicker at that point in the race. He got a run on Mark up the inside and we saw what happened. It’s massively disappointing and the situation shouldn’t have occurred. To give McLaren 28 points on a plate is very frustrating for everyone in the team - especially after so much hard work. We’ve lost a lot of points today with what’s happened. We need to learn from it, so we don’t find ourselves in this position again.”

iloveholden

31-05-2010, 12:52 PM

Looking at the video and the pics again and again...there is no way that was Mark Webbers fault...purely an ego problem coming from the Vettel direction....i simply now hate the bloke :soap:

Anyway Webbers on top so :smilesandbanana:

VX2VESS

31-05-2010, 01:08 PM

Vettel really had no options left did he? Mark was holding him out on the dirty stuff if he didn't get over he would have not been able to brake in time.

That was what mark was doing holding him so he would not make the corner, REd bull is saying he shouldn't have done that and moved over more to allow him to brake.

If you were vettel and got a run on would you try...Vettel had no where to go after taking that dive and getting his nose in front is what he is saying. maybe the braking on the dirt caused him to drift into Webber. Vettel was screwed i think he had no options left with Webber holding him left, he would have lost it soon anyway without moving over. even if he tried to get back behind would mean braking hard on the dirty side. so he was going to loose it before the corner anyway, but not if webber moved once he was in front

BigAl83

31-05-2010, 02:24 PM

SS Enforcer

31-05-2010, 03:01 PM

The fact is if they were telling Mark to turn his engine down they should've told Vettel to do the same, Mark got away cleanly from pole and was leading on merit. Load of complete bs that Hamilton would've overtaken Vettel, he was gapping him FFS.

I think you nail the issue here and that is Red Bull wanted Vettel to win the race judging by their actions in telling Webber to slow down which would allow Vettel to pass him.

I have been critical of Webber in the past for giving up position too easily so it's good to see him show some mongrel which will make other drivers wary of pulling a stunt against him.

cheers

HazzaHSV

31-05-2010, 03:36 PM

Vettel really had no options left did he? Mark was holding him out on the dirty stuff if he didn't get over he would have not been able to brake in time.Wrong. He could have hit the brakes early and made the corner fine.

It was Vettel who choose the one car width down the inside to try and pass, even though there was 3-4 car widths on the outside, which would have left him with a perfect braking line and corner entrance. So he made his choice, and then realized oops, what now? Shitty dirty brake line and crappy corner entrance line. Oh well, instead of braking early on the dirty surface and letting Mark back in front on the racing line, and instead of braking late to hold Mark out and running wide effectively letting Mark get back in front, I will just shove him to the right and have my cake too. Bzzzzzzzzttttttttt!!!! Wrong.

addicted vy ss

31-05-2010, 05:13 PM

Vettel is a dog...he will get his one day :vpo: :flipoff: :flipoff: :vpo:

Tyre biter

31-05-2010, 06:48 PM

Sorry, I disagree; blame goes to both IMO.

Webber used the left side of the track for the first time - why? To block Vettel - the end.

Webber put his car into such a spot where a few inches of swerve by his team-mate put his race and his title tilt in jeopardy. I know it is common in racing to block but nevertheless it is BS IMO. It pissed me off when Bowe drove the world's widest Falcon in the early 90's and it continues to - why can't folks appreciate when they are licked? Is it ego? What happens to their judgement and reasonableness? Notwithstanding this, Vettel was in front at the time of the coming togteher and yielding/submission by Webber was appropriate - Instead Webber held his line pushing Vettel to the white line and giving either very little room to deal with the corner approaching.

Had both Webber and Vettel showed due respect and merely raced cleanly, then this coming together would never have happened. By the Grace of God, Webber came away fairly unscathed to secure 3rd but he is not a saint in this - again, he decided to put his car into a position where risk was manifest. Regardless of the reason why, Vettel was faster at that time and whilst I am sure my views might inflame the opinions of the motorsport academics amongst us, it is not racing / competing fair and square to go about blocking folks - it is more the tactics of Dick Dastardly of Whacky Races fame or Michael Schumacher that comes to mind for this type of conduct.

Webber mostly got away with it this time but it could have been so much differently and regardless, this incident may become a championship defining error in judgement on his part. I hope not, but F1 history is littered with examples such as this.

Cheers, TB

Speedy Gonzales

31-05-2010, 07:18 PM

I dont understand how this could happen with the 2 best cars on the grid, sounds like politics and favouritism at play at Red Bull.

There was no way Vettel was going to pass Mark unless he was instructed to let him by.

What I dont get is why would management risk jeopardising a certain 1-2 Red Bull finish only to swap positions between drivers?

Clearly Mark was leading the race and the championship. There was at least 17 laps to go, plenty of race left if Vettel wanted to pass legitimately.

Thats twice now that Vettel has crashed into Mark and ruined being 1st on the podium. Obviously didnt learn from the 1st crash, wont from this one by sounds of it either, may be burnt bridges already, in that case, if I were in Marks shoes, just go for the wins and if Vettel comes up in the mirror vying for 1st, dont let him pass.

Delft Maloo

31-05-2010, 07:28 PM

Webber had every right to block vettel, a driver is allowed to move once to defend his line and thats what webber did, if vettel had of moved back to the right/outside webber would not have been allowed to move over on him again and if he did he would have been penalised.
If you look at the video you can see that webber didnt ever turn into vettel even straight out of the corner, webber never moved over he was on that line exiting the corner and just held a straight line down the track.
And as for the poor comment/excuse given here that because webber held him out on the dirty side and poor grip while braking caused vettel's car to pull into webber's what a load of shit, they were well and truly short of the braking marker when contact was made:rofl:.

FOON

31-05-2010, 07:34 PM

Vettels a sore loser when it comes to Webber beating him, Vettel thinks he is number 1 at Red bull and now Mark is beating him he is not happy. Vettels attitude seems to be if I can't win neither can Mark.

Whenever Vettel is on the podium with Mark and Mark is one step higher Vettel always has a scowl on his face.

HazzaHSV

31-05-2010, 07:46 PM

Sorry Tyre biter. There was no block, a block would have been if Webber drove him off the inside of the track, or swerved more than once to block Vettel. It was a simple defensive line held from corner exit all the way down the straight.
Webber put his car into such a spot where a few inches of swerve by his team-mate put his race and his title tilt in jeopardy.
Yep his team-mate swerved, hit Webber and put them off and put Webbers title in jeopardy. The End.

Martin_D

31-05-2010, 08:03 PM

Its F1, it all happens REAL fast......these guys have to be on the edge to win. They say - "If you lift for a second, thats where you'll finish"
No one tries to touch wheels deliberately in open wheeler. It can be fatal, very quickly :teach:
Eddie Jordan had an interesting take on it being a former team owner and all :eek:

Vettel will be world champion one day.....

BLACKVE

31-05-2010, 08:20 PM

Vettel will be world champion one day.....

Yep he's 22 he will, but will he be a great champion(good clean racer) i think not although he's very young. Simply he cocked up he moved in to mark, yes he was quicker but on dirty side.

Mark has done well few races i hope he can keep it up Vettel seems to crack with pressure

Reminds me of Senna/Prost.

Martin_D

31-05-2010, 08:22 PM

Yep he's 22 he will, but will he be a great champion(good clean racer) i think not although he's very young.

Well they do say hes the next Schumacher....
Schui/Damon, Schui/Jacques, Schui just about anyone that got in his way :lol:

johno067

31-05-2010, 08:43 PM

^^^ If he was going to attempt the pass he should've gone on the outside.

The fact is if they were telling Mark to turn his engine down they should've told Vettel to do the same, Mark got away cleanly from pole and was leading on merit. Load of complete bs that Hamilton would've overtaken Vettel, he was gapping him FFS.

Seeing as "team orders" are banned, it's becoming pretty apparent that this is the new way to hand them out, tell one driver to turn the wick down. RBR not such a nice team to be in all of a sudden, as it's pretty clear they want boy wonder to win.

Captin Obvious

31-05-2010, 09:02 PM

Well they do say hes the next Schumacher....
Schui/Damon, Schui/Jacques, Schui just about anyone that got in his way :lol:

Agreed, He pulled out a **** move last night... Schui like in fact.

spank

31-05-2010, 09:17 PM

vettel may well be champion one day but that doesnt stop him from being a dog of a driver esp to a team mate, webber did not block or move from his line of entry to the next corner, ive watched the incident from a few angles quite a few times and in my mind it was vettels mistake and he came of second best, he is very lucky mark didnt smash him in the face and tell RBR where to stick thier car. i can understand that vettel would think he should have been on pole and that he was quicker and it wasnt his fault the car broke during quallifying but the win it or bin attitude has to stop, its getting him nowhere. also i heard that RBR set marks car to fuel saver mode and not vettels, they didnt tell mark they did this but vettels manager knew and told vettel that he should be able to pass mark .

HazzaHSV

31-05-2010, 09:19 PM

It pissed me off when Bowe drove the world's widest Falcon in the early 90's and it continues to -I forgot to reply to this. Agree 100%, it drove me crazy too, but there is a big difference between continuously blocking like he did, and a once off defensive position on one straight, where he was told to turn his engine down unfairly. Bowe was licked for outright pace easily, he knew it, everyone knew it, but he blocked for periods of 10 laps or more (seemed like it anyway). Webber was not licked for pace, until his engine was turned down, and drove a defensive line on one straight (in your words one block), showing the outside (racing) line, Seb decided he wanted the tight inside dirty line. Simple mistake IMO.

timy

31-05-2010, 10:18 PM

it would've been very interesting to watch if webber had of crashed out on the corner as well.. i don't think he would of been able to be as collected about it as he was at the post race interviews.. i would've liked to have seen that!! vettel is acting like a spoilt brat, if i didn't know better i would've thought he was British.. hehe

although they are team mates, forget about that for a second and imagine it was hamilton vs. webber, do u think if hamilton honestly had that inside line he would've swerved or do u think he would have got on the breaks in order to stop in time for the corner giving up 1st position??
and on that note, do u think webber would've moved across a car length for hamilton to be able to pass down the inside..?

makes blaming who is at fault pretty easy to me..

timy

seldo

31-05-2010, 10:41 PM

In the post-race press-conference Mark told the the press to "dig elsewhere" for further information, because he clearly wasn't permitted to tell the real story.
It now comes to light that Webber had been instructed to turn his engine down into fuel-saving mode (which I guess may be a lower rev-limit) but Vettel wasn't - hence suddenly more pace for Vettel.
When the team "motorsport consultant" Dr Helmut Marko (who incidently strongly backed Vettel) was asked if it was true that Webber had been told by the team to let SV past, he quickly denied it saying "that would be giving a team order" (which is of course not permitted under the rules.)
When asked why SV was suddenly faster than MW for the last couple of laps he claimed it was "tyres". Yeah, right.
I'm afraid that it seems that there is a strong push within the team that Vettel should be the "chosen one" for the championship this year, and I'm really glad that Webber is not going to give up without a fight. I've been saying that he needed more mongrel and it seems he agrees...
There also remains a strong rumour (that Mark hasn't really fully denied) that he may be going to Ferrari next year...
As for those who suggest that Mark should have just let SV past - give me a break - they are racers and it doesn't matter who is in the next car, the aim is to win - not come second.

timy

31-05-2010, 10:48 PM

as for those who suggest that mark should have just let sv past - give me a break - they are racers and it doesn't matter who is in the next car, the aim is to win - not come second.

hit the nail right on the head!!!

Party Pete

31-05-2010, 11:14 PM

As much as I was pissed off when I saw it last night and blamed Vettel completely, I can see there are two parts to the accident. Yes, Webber was trying to squeeze him out. Webber was way off the racing line and you could argue that team mates shouldn't do that. Then again, Vettel has gone the swerve on his team mate before and obviously models his driving on his homeland hero, even the less pleasant bits. There may be nothing sinister in the decision to turn down Mark's engine a lap earlier than Vettel though. They have separate engineers making these decisions moment by moment for each car. The fact that Vettel was in second or 3rd most the race could quite conceivably mean that he did have more fuel than Webber and his engineer was planning to give him another lap on full power. Given the dedicated role that each engineer has to their car it is quite possible that neither knew specifically that one had been told to turn down their engine before the other.

Martin_D

01-06-2010, 07:06 AM

These cars arent road cars...they dont just roll up alongside each other and coast around deciding when to move or to cut someone off. They are on the limit the whole time, with the sad part being that Marks front wheel tagged Vettels rear, which means one of the guys had the clear right of way to the line.....or at least thought he did :)

macca33

01-06-2010, 07:07 AM

Hmm, kind of undermines the notion of 'team' somewhat, doesn't it!

It was the first F1 race I'd seen this season and it was great to see Webber out front. It was disappointing that ANYONE in the Red Bull camp may have considered what occurred to be a good thing and I think the manoeuvre was rather poorly executed.

The McLaren blokes showed how to race hard, yet not destroy a car. That half lap between their two drivers was sensational racing - AND was a demonstration of great sportsmanship.

cheers

Delft Maloo

01-06-2010, 08:27 AM

The tyres and fuel excuse are bull shit, vettel pitted befor webber, hamilton and button so do you really believe that he had better tyres and fuel than all of them?

hRTHSV

01-06-2010, 08:40 AM

Well fuel yes he may have had more because remember they fill the car at the start of the race now, nothing to do with pit stops and tyes depends on set up. But just looking at the way it all came about, it appears they just wanted Seb to win. We will never know the full story on the fuel front until Mark leaves the team. But I recall they have been designing the car around what Vettel wants because they see him as the future.

However on the passing move regardless of how it came about, Mark squeezed Vettel fairly as they all do, BUT he left him enough room, he got alongside without contact. Once Vettel was 2/3 past he just turned right, just because he gets his nose in front doesn't give him right of way to do what he wants and there is the problem for Vettel, racing room.

Bit dissappointing that everybody agrees with Mark except his bosses Horner (who he co owns a team with) and Marko. I would be looking a for good seat else where for next year, but where?

hoon69

01-06-2010, 09:28 AM

A move like that is a dog act on your team mate and the team in general,blind friggin billy could see who made the agressive move and who turned into who.

i dont care what the teams PR or crap said Vettel was to blame and should wake the $#%%#^ up grow some testicles and just admit his guilt and move the #$%# on.

SS Enforcer

01-06-2010, 09:55 AM

Webbers side of the story .... http://www.markwebber.com/on-the-track-news/2010-season/turkish-grand-prix-race-report/

“I am very comfortable with my side of things,” says Mark. “I saw Sebastian coming down my inside, so I stayed tight because I wanted him to be on the dirty stuff as we approached the braking area. I held my line and he moved across on me; there wasn’t much contact, but you don’t need much at 300kph (186mph) for it to end in tears.”

Luckily, Mark was able to continue in the race – albeit after a pitstop for a new front wing – and he went on to finish third, behind race winner Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button. But his fourth podium of the year wasn’t what the world’s press wished to talk to him about; the media wanted to know why Sebastian – in an identical car – had managed to get such a good run on Mark during the immediate lead-up to the accident.

“The team had asked me to turn down my engine,” says Mark, “which is what I did. Whether or not Seb got the same message, I don’t yet know, but that might explain why he was suddenly so much quicker than me along the straight.

“Of course this outcome was a very unfortunate result for Red Bull Racing because Seb’s DNF meant we gave McLaren 28 points on a plate. But let’s not forget that I finished third; I’ve had worse days in my life.”

Up until lap 41, the Turkish Grand Prix weekend had gone very well for Mark. He’d tested Red Bull Racing’s new ‘F-duct’ during Friday practice, with some promising results, and he’d gone on to take his third pole position in a row on Saturday afternoon. He then made the perfect getaway at the start of the race and the first time he came close to being headed was when he had the incident with Vettel.

“The first stint of the race was very interesting,” says Mark. “Lewis was leading the chasing pack and we found a very good rhythm. He might have been a little quicker than me, but I had track position and there was no way he was going to find a way through.”

Mark and Lewis pitted together on lap 15, but Mark stayed in front and the next phase of the race saw both Red Bulls and both McLarens lapping very quickly at the head of the field. Until, that is, the shunt on lap 41 that gifted McLaren a one-two finish.

“There were still 17 laps to go at the time of the accident,” says Mark, “but I’m confident that I could have won this race. I wasn’t quite as happy on the prime tyres as I’d been on the options, but the car still felt okay; I felt in control of the race.

“Seb and I have to sit down and chat about what happened. We’ll probably have a difference of opinion about what happened until we go to our graves, but we’re both adults and we need to press on. If we’d been fighting for 18th and 19th positions when the accident occurred, no-one would have cared; as it was, we were fighting for the lead and it’s all anyone wants to know about.”

cheers

seldo

01-06-2010, 10:57 AM

Another good question to ask for those who think that Webber did the wrong thing by crowding Vettel to the dirty side of the track -
If it had been Hamilton/Button coming through, what should/would he have done, and would it have been justified...?
I suspect that under those circumstances he would have left even less space on the inside...

johno067

01-06-2010, 10:58 AM

Martin Brundle's BBC column tells it exactly how it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8714410.stm

rafal

02-06-2010, 11:55 PM

I think they are both at fault. I would blame Vettel more. He's the one under pressure and he would do anything to knock Webber from first place in the rank with points.

SS Enforcer

03-06-2010, 02:40 PM

And more .....

http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=469263

cheers

seedyrom

03-06-2010, 03:52 PM

surely one of the main aims of the second driver in a 1-2 arrangement is to support the "team", in achieving maximum points, by acting as a defensive blocker to ensure the 1-2 win occurs..

Yeah yeah, you're in the race to win, not come second .... but to fug someone up in your own team shows where your loyalties lie.

I reckon Mark was fair in his request to have his team mate behind him act as a blocker

HazzaHSV

03-06-2010, 04:11 PM

Definitely fair, given the only reason he was a fraction lower on fuel was because he was out in front leading the GP for 41 laps. How you can punish your own driver for doing that, by letting a teammate try and pass while you instruct the leader to dial down the engine, is beyond belief.

seldo

03-06-2010, 11:31 PM

I think they are both at fault. I would blame Vettel more. He's the one under pressure and he would do anything to knock Webber from first place in the rank with points.Why???
Webber had pole, had the lead, had held it for 41 laps, and Johnny-come-lately decides he can be a hero and make a desperate do-or die-effort down the inside and brings the whole circus down.... Hello...??? They had the opportunity of an almost guaranteed 1-2, and Vettel's ego solely, made it a 3-0. So who's to blame????
If it had been Button or Hamilton trying to squeeze down the inside, Webber would have been a hero in the RB camp for holding him out, and even in doing so, Webber was being kind - he could have cut his nose off early in the peace and said no-go!
Mark has been really badly maligned in this - he did exactly as they teach you in Grade 1 in Racing Driver School - Prevent the other guy from passing - Webber = 100%

BossV8

03-06-2010, 11:55 PM

I was suprised to read that Horner and Mako from Red Bull seemed in their initial portrayal of the incident as Webber being in the wrong, when the footage clearly states otherwise.

Vettel was further foreward, but he also moves right suddenly when Webber continued straight. What else could he have done? It's not like he didnt leave enough room, as he made the pass in the first place without running out of room.

seedyrom

04-06-2010, 12:25 AM

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/6/10869.html

http://users.tpg.com.au/vtcalais//vettell.jpg

03 Jun 2010
Red Bull clear the air ahead of Canada

Following a meeting at their Milton Keynes factory on Thursday, Red Bull believe they have drawn a line under the collision between drivers Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber during the Turkish Grand Prix.

Vettel, Webber, team principal Christian Horner, chief technical officer Adrian Newey and Red Bull motorsport consultant Dr Helmut Marko all attended the meeting at the team’s UK base.

The duo collided on Lap 40 of the Istanbul Park event whilst battling for the lead. Vettel, who had been running in second when he had the opportunity to overtake his team mate, span off the track and out of the race. Webber eventually finished in third, behind the McLarens of Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button.

“The team had got us into a great position and it wasn’t good for them what happened - so I’m sorry for them that we lost the lead of the race,” said Vettel in a statement released by the team. “Mark and I are racers and we were racing. We are professionals and it won’t change how we will work together going forward. We have a great team and the spirit is very strong. I’m looking forward to Canada.”

Webber added: “It’s a shame for the team, as we lost a good opportunity to win the race. It’s sport and these things can happen, but it shouldn’t have done. I feel for everyone at Red Bull, at the factory and everyone involved. Seb and I will make sure it doesn’t happen again and will continue to work openly together, no problem. We have talked enough on it now, it’s done, we’re looking ahead and I’m focused on the race in Canada next week.”

The Cook

04-06-2010, 01:17 AM

It's good to read there reply and at the end of the day yes they are still both racing each other in the points table, I think that mark didn't do the wrong thing by not moving over for vettle, but it will be interesting to watch the next race and see how they react around each other if the same situation should emerge again,

rgmast

07-06-2010, 09:02 PM

Great News for Mark

Australian Mark Webber re-signs with Formula One team Red Bull
From correspondents in Paris, France
June 07, 2010 .Australian Mark Webber has extended his contract with the Red Bull team until 2011, ending speculation that he would sign with Ferrari.

"It was an easy decision to remain with Red Bull Racing," the 33-year-old world championship leader said.

"We began talking very early this year and were in a position to sign by the Barcelona Grand Prix."

Webber added: "It's widely known that I'm not interested in hanging around in Formula One just for the sake of it and at this stage of my career I'm happy to take one year at a time.

"I continue to feel very comfortable here - I have a fantastic relationship with the whole team and the factory at Milton Keynes feels like home.

"It's incredible to be part of the team as it's moved forward from a mid-field competitor to one that is challenging for the championship.

"I hope we experience more success together in the future and achieve our ultimate goal of winning the world championship."

Red Bull's second driver Sebastian Vettel will also be under contract with the team until next year.

Red Bull are currently second in the constructor's standings behind McLaren.