Great Wall Motors - Quality review X240

[Ausmartin1]

Checked out a Great Wall SUV X240 today at a dealer to compare all external the faults I saw in a car park one.
(X240 appears to be a copy of an old Toyota 4 Runner with Mistubishi engine)

Quality, lets put it this way.....

Great Australian manufactures like Holden can rest easy in the short term as the first assault on Australian shores by Great Wall is not that great!
One thing I will give GW they are consistant with their mistakes :rofl:

http://pbckt.com/sd.XJW

[slolux]

I can't believe how many of the utes I have seen driving around, but most have been by tradies who would get rid of them after a couple of years or so and update.

They received a pretty bad write up in a 4WD mag I read as well.

[CeeVee8]

I've seen worse things on expensive so called "superior European built vehicles".

I really think you are being overly critical of this car.

[Ausmartin1]

I can't believe how many of the utes I have seen driving around, but most have been by tradies who would get rid of them after a couple of years or so and update.

They received a pretty bad write up in a 4WD mag I read as well.

I'm also suprised they are selling as many - most are fugly except the x240, ignoring the cosmetic appearance and quality, the proof is going to be in the durabilty and resale values.
Time will tell.

Chinese manufactures are starting on the old worn track of Jap/Koreans to getting it together. Possibly In 5 -10 years time it could be scary competition for manufactures here. They already have huge home base manufacturing volumes - even at this point in time.

It's a real credit to Australian manufactures like Holden, who do so much with design etc with so few people. It's fantastic to see Holdens people are genuine car people and have impressed GM US many a time.

Lastly I hope people don't just buy on price alone.


Cheers

Martin

[hRTHSV]

Didn't see anything to drastic there, that's what you expect for the price, no i wouldn't buy one but plenty of people will.

The spare tyre is not a problem most spare tyres under the back of 4wd and utes are stored with a similar system.

[bladerunner]

i read somewhere that they have had recalls for the airbags and seatbelt anchor points failling, the airbags dont fully inflate so ive heard.
PS..typical,sell the chinese our iron ore,comes back as a cheap car!

[OZChris]

In this current climate, price is driving alot of people especially when spending a large amount of money on buying a car.

The faults you listed are similar to those in my MY10 SV6 - plenty of people buying them too :)

[matthewfnorbert]

good point.
the commodore was poor quality (fit and trim quality and reliability of trim etc) for more than 20 years! some would say it still is not up to par. whereas greatwall will probably have it sorted in a few short years.

[FlatfootV8]

A mate has a great wall SA220 and he wishes he spent the extra cash on a Hilux or a Navara because his is falling apart around him already and has done 40,000k's,

[GODSMACK]

Its not good......................... ITS GREAT!!!!

[ntv8]

Certainly a case of you get what you pay for...I read somewhere that these Great Wall cars managed only a 2 star rating in crash tests!
Not good enough in my opinion. Although I suppose there are plenty of people who don't mind cheap and nasty.

[Marco]

Yep, safety-wise you'd actually still be better off getting a good used Rodeo/Hilux/Navara/Triton for the same cash. (Probably get better quality/reliability too!)

[DaveHAT]

I've seen worse things on expensive so called "superior European built vehicles".

I really think you are being overly critical of this car.

Agree 100%.

It's a budget priced vehicle significantly cheaper than most others within the same bracket. Many much more expensive cars have not had much better write ups.

Once again ... you get what you pay for and should accept that with the significantly lower price ticket. For what you pay and what you get I think they're pretty good buying.

[zorro]

Do the GW's share anything with Rodeos or are they a completly new car? A mate of mine commented on one over the weekend saying how similar the rears look to the Rodeo.

On another note Im sure they will infect the market much the same as Kia did with their Pregio range. Ive driven and worked on quite a few of these and cannot believe how big a POS they are...... Even more laughable is a truck driver that comes into work bought one thinking 'yew beut cheap 2T truck' only to find when it got load rated here it lost 400kgs :lmao:

[dawkinsdisciple]

they'll have the quality sorted soon i'd say
but yep, built to a price
and selling well judgind by the number on the roads
i'd get a navara, dmax or colorado if i was going that way though

they do resemble the rodeo and old navara from some angles something firece though!

[v8 ute]

I've seen way worse on cars alot more expensive, and similar stuff on lots of others.... get a grip it's not a high end car.

[BECAUZ]

Well if this chinese mob goes well im sure its going to start dropping the value of most cars. Good for the consumer, not good for the industry....

[the big fist]

Don't really seem like major problems at all.
I wouldn't call Holden top quality :rofl:

[pmac]

Do the GW's share anything with Rodeos or are they a completly new car? A mate of mine commented on one over the weekend saying how similar the rears look to the Rodeo.

The Chasis is the same as the one on a Rodeo TF (88-01)

[planetdavo]

China blatantly copies heaps of cars. Copyright and trademark laws seem virtually non existent when their communist government can make money, no matter what the product is.
But since many people care about nothing more than the price, they will no doubt succeed.

[C4B]

China blatantly copies heaps of cars. Copyright and trademark laws seem virtually non existent when their communist government can make money, no matter what the product is.
But since many people care about nothing more than the price, they will no doubt succeed.

Reminds me of those el-cheapo 4WD's that have Mercedes Benz looking fronts on them.

[255-LS1]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssangyong...?

doesn't merc own them anyway.

[Party Pete]

China blatantly copies heaps of cars. Copyright and trademark laws seem virtually non existent when their communist government can make money, no matter what the product is.
But since many people care about nothing more than the price, they will no doubt succeed.

There was actually a case a few years ago where GM tried to pursue copyright infringement against one the Chinese manufacturers over one of their small cars. They actually demonstrated how clearly they copied the design by taking two cars, one genuine one and one Chinese copy, and pulling them both apart and mixing the parts up. They then managed to manufacture two cars again with the mixed parts. Anyway, the Chinese court didn't find for GM. What a great legal system.

[Wezza]

Meh, you get what you pay for.

These things will sell like hotcakes once they finally get the common rail diesels in them. They are sold in in China & i hear they will be here soon.

[Spoolin]

I think the faults you have pointed out are quite petty, after all it is till a commercial vehicle.
Is there any particular reason why you went to such effort?

[Jag530G]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssangyong...?

doesn't merc own them anyway.

Ssassyong has an engine supply agreement with Merc Benz, SSas use the Merc CRD, very good engine. Ssassyong also had an agrement to use a previous model E class which they sold as the SSasyong Chairman. A bit of trivia for all you Ssasyong fans. The first SSasyong 4WD sold in Australia was designed by the same guy who designed the early 90's Bentley Continental R Coupe (a truly beautiful car, unlike the Ssasyong)

A work collegue recent looked at a Great Wall Dual cab for his wife but decided against it because she does a bit of highway driving and the GW safety is poor. bought a Hilux instead. However if it was just for driving around time to building sites etc, would get one in a flash, drive it into the ground they are so cheap.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Toyota dropping prices in coming years, In recent times Toyota have been banging up prices (latest Prado is the latest example) on the back of their reputation. Even Mitsus/Nissans/Isuzu/Holdens are cheaper for silmilarly good product. I would imagine that a lot of GW sales have gone to guys who where shocked at the cost of a new Hilux just for driving between worksites and went and bought a GW instead.

Cheers, Matthew

[Party Pete]

The problem with the safety argument here is that crash tests are performed at less than 60km/h. It is around town that the safety difference between a 2 star car and a 5 star one is probably most relevant. Frankly, I think you would be better off with a second hand Hilux or similar than new Great Wall. Not due to the faults listed here, but due to the safety and reliability issues.

[dmenace]

I've been told the x240 got a 4 Star rating the C- NCAP crash test. It's on youtube i think.

The utes run the last 2 gen Rodeo Chassis's with Mitsu engines.

X240 diesel has a 2.8 Isuzu sourced diesel. I'm assuming it's the same one as we got in the rodeo's...

But there are 2 different versions they sell of the diesel. I'm assuming we will get the higher output version.

Also go and check out the Hilux copy they sell in china... LOL.

[planetdavo]

Yeah, just google "chinese copy cars".
You'll recognise plenty of VERY familiar designs!
If the Chinese copy the engineering put into each part, they might be ok.
If they just make moulds of each part and cast, mould or stamp a poor quality imitation of it, the cars will no doubt be sh!t.

[VYBerlinaV8]

The Chinese are starting in the international market the same way the Japanese and Koreans did. Initially the cars are cheap, and not very good quality, but over time they either improve or die off. Most Korean cars now are probably as good as some Japanese brands. I expect the Chinese will go down a similar path - the first decade or so they will be getting up to speed, but then the vehicles will be good enough for most peoples' purposes.

When the Chinese build a vehicle that is reliable enough for a few hundred thousand kms, has the right features and is the right price, I'd consider buying one for sure.

[BigFella]

yeah they are cheap, we were actually going to take on a great wall franchise last year but decided against it.

There is a market for them, if u are a tradie, and want to turn ur car over every few years these are ok for the price, what else can u get with all the options for $23,990!!!

a civic? lol


the quality is bog yah but u get what u pay for, and if it was for a work truck im sure many wouldnt give a sh!t!

holden quality is better but its still a way way off being bloody great!!

[vecommo]

I wouldn't be seen dead in one of these, no matter how big the savings.
If I was in the market for this type of vehicle I'd rather buy a 5yo Hilux/Navara/Rodeo/Triton than one of these abortions.

[LS1 VT]

im sure the reliability could not be much worse then the current model tritons. the company i work for brought a bucket load of single cab and dual cab V6's and they have been horrible. engine swaps, diff rebuilds and more engine swaps. one in particular 18 times back to dealer and counting

[keepleft]

Certainly a case of you get what you pay for...I read somewhere that these Great Wall cars managed only a 2 star rating in crash tests!
Not good enough in my opinion. Although I suppose there are plenty of people who don't mind cheap and nasty.

So,
I have a 2005 Certified 2005 Mazda Bravo 4X4 twin can ute, no airbags etc it'd be lucky to reach two stars. Mates BT50, new, needs a replacement starter.

GW's have rear fogs and a Euro Spec warning triangle at least.


Run it in well, it should do one allright.

[planetdavo]

The Chinese are starting in the international market the same way the Japanese and Koreans did. Initially the cars are cheap, and not very good quality, but over time they either improve or die off. Most Korean cars now are probably as good as some Japanese brands. I expect the Chinese will go down a similar path - the first decade or so they will be getting up to speed, but then the vehicles will be good enough for most peoples' purposes.

Most likely they will end up ok due to competition from Chinese brands linked to major western manufacturers. The western manufacturers will bring their quality controls along with them.
One would hope their quality takes a huge steps forward, unlike chinese tools and electricals, which still only last about as long as they did 20 years ago...

[Spoolin]

Just take a look at Kia or Hyundai 10=15 years ago and where they are now.

Toyota sees Hyundai as it's biggest global threat.

[Wezza]

From goauto.com.au 30/11/2009.

"China’s Great Wall to expand ute line up

Diesel, single-cab and safety improvements promised for Great Wall’s V240 ute

30 November 2009

By JAMES STANFORD

AUSTRALIA’S first Chinese brand is set to significantly broaden its attack on the one-tonne ute market next year with a diesel engine and single-cab variant.

Great Wall Motors will release a facelifted version of its V240 crew cab ute in the first quarter of next year and will take the opportunity to expand the line-up to attract new buyer types.

The diesel engine will be made available in the second half of the year and is tipped to significantly boost sales of the ute, which is already selling better than expected.

New single-cab and cab-chassis variants should give Great Wall better access to the workhorse market. Currently, the V240 is only available as a crew cab.

The company’s Australian distributor, Ateco Automotive, said the facelifted V240 model had also been developed with the aim of improving the vehicle’s crash worthiness.

GoAuto understands Great Wall is making a range of structural changes to improve the safety of the V240 ute after it scored just two stars when by the ANCAP crash test safety body in September.

“Great Wall is following through and seeking to improve its ANCAP rating,” said Ateco spokesman Daniel Cotterill.

“They are working very hard to make the vehicle perform better in that regard.”

The ute upgrade is expected to include pre-tensioning seatbelts – a feature that tightens the belts in the event of a crash – but no further safety features.

The V240 already has ABS and dual front airbags.

Electronic stability control will not be introduced at the time of the facelift. Great Wall Motors has said it plans to introduce ESC on its vehicles before it becomes mandatory on all new cars from January 1, 2011. Great Wall’s other ute, the SA220 crew cab, also scored just two stars in the September ANCAP test.

Older than the V240, it is subsequently cheaper. It is not available with anti-skid brakes or a driver or passenger airbag and there are no plans to offer more safety gear or improve its crash performance.

The current SA220 and V240 are both only available with petrol engines. The SA220 features an older Chinese 2.2-litre petrol four-cylinder with just 78kW and 190Nm, while the V240 runs a more modern Mitsubishi-sourced 2.4-litre petrol unit with 100kW and 200Nm.

The addition of the diesel should make the V240 a more attractive vehicle for customers wishing to carry or tow heavy loads.

Ateco is yet to confirm the details of the diesel engine that will be offered with the V-series ute.

Options include a Bosch-developed 2.8-litre and 2.0-litre diesels which was shown at the 2008 Beijing motor show.

Great Wall Motors sales stand at 1020 to the end of October, according to VFACTS.

The V240 is a clear top seller with 801 sales, with 439 of those 4x4 variants. Great Wall has sold 201 SA220s and 18 of its just-introduced X240 model.

While Ateco has just launched the X240 SUV, the plans for other passenger models are unclear.

The Florid small hatch originally was planned for launch this year, but that was delayed.

Ateco now says that it will launch a Great Wall small car in the second half of next year, but it will not say if this is the Florid hatch or another vehicle.

Great Wall last week achieved European Whole of Vehicle Type Approval (WVTA) from the UK based Vehicle Certification Agency for four vehicles, including the V240 ute, X240 SUV, Florid hatch and the Coolbear tallboy hatch that looks like a Toyota-made Scion xB.

Ateco has not ruled out bringing the striking Coolbear to Australia, but said it was unlikely in the short term.

The distribution company, which imports a wide range of brands from Citroen to Ferrari, is still committed to introducing a second Chinese brand, Chery, to Australia, despite a delay.

Chery was supposed to be introduced to Australia early this year, but is yet to arrive, and Ateco is yet to lock in a launch date.

“We are currently in discussions,” said Mr Cotterill.

He said it was likely a Chery vehicle would go on sale at some stage during 2010, but he would would not be drawn on a possible launch date or which models would be first into showrooms.

The original Chery launch plan involved two small cars, the A1 hatch and A5 sedan, as well as the Tiggo3 compact SUV, but the A5 is now an unlikely starter.

[HRT]

When the Chinese build a vehicle that is reliable enough for a few hundred thousand kms, has the right features and is the right price, I'd consider buying one for sure.
It's really refreshing to come across someone with such a balanced perspective. It certainly beats those narrow-minded, bandwagon jumping bigots who incarcerate China, regardless of whether criticism is warranted.

To the thread starter: It'd be great if you can post up a detailed pictorial review (like you have done for the Great Wall) of both a VE Commodore and FG Falcon for comparisons sake. Most of the so-called fit and finish "issues" you have raised is more akin to pissing in the wind.

[planetdavo]

It's really refreshing to come across someone with such a balanced perspective. It certainly beats those narrow-minded, bandwagon jumping bigots who incarcerate China, regardless of whether criticism is warranted.

So you condone their blatant ripping off other people's designs by the sound of it???
Much of the cheap sh!t out of China IS sh!t, because it is made cheap, the very reason so much comes from there. Cheap means higher profit... :idea:

[Martin_D]

The western manufacturers will bring their quality controls along with them...

As long as those western manufacturers are not American based, most of which would struggle to build a car as well put together as the Great Wall in the first place :lol:

The real threat is if they import QC infrastructure from Korea or Japan where most of the worlds higher quality affordable product is made. Dont forget Davo that even Holden look towards Korea for their manufacturing skillbase :)

[planetdavo]

As long as those western manufacturers are not American based, most of which would struggle to build a car as well put together as the Great Wall in the first place :lol:

The real threat is if they import QC infrastructure from Korea or Japan where most of the worlds higher quality affordable product is made. Dont forget Davo that even Holden look towards Korea for their manufacturing skillbase :)

Wonder if Tuna follows only one member around posting bait on the other 14 forums he tries to flog his stuff on...?
Anyone else a member of 15 different internet forums like Tuna? :confused:

[Martin_D]

So....what I posted is not fact?
Thats a lame response indeed!

[seedyrom]

It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true eh Davo?
:lol:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/elections/14922d1203442021-obama-illegals-share-same-message-n522306244_197290_3718.jpg

[GODSMACK]

Wonder if Tuna follows only one member around posting bait on the other 14 forums he tries to flog his stuff on...?
Anyone else a member of 15 different internet forums like Tuna? :confused:

Yep, i troll about 17, i sell my body....

[HRT]

So you condone their blatant ripping off other people's designs by the sound of it???
Much of the cheap sh!t out of China IS sh!t, because it is made cheap, the very reason so much comes from there. Cheap means higher profit...
My stance on China's intellectual property issues is purely irrelevant in this context. At the end of the day, GM is doing very well in China with the Buick and Cadillac nameplate, and if breach of intellectual property was such a major, earth-shattering issue for them, they always have the option to pull out of China altogether.

Furthermore, you're grossly overestimating the consequences of China's intellectual property breaches. Despite the Chinese imitating GM designs, China accounted for 25% of GM's sales, and is one of their more profitable operations (the same can't be said for Government Motors in North America :rofl:) (Source: http://autos.globaltimes.cn/world/2010-01/497852.html). The figures speak for themselves. GM should be flattered that the Chinese are copying their designs. Other manufacturers wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

Despite the American company's previous prolific bitching about Chinese car manufacturers ripping off their designs, I think GM have come to realise that they will have to compromise in order to prosper in China.

Edit: Source.

[Dug]

Sheesh! I certainly wouldn't spend $80,000 on one of those cars.

Then again, they aren't asking for $80,000 either. I know I'm not the first to say that you get what you pay for, and that I don't mean that in a negative way - I mean it in that if you want a cheap car, then you can't expect an expensive quality.

But really, from your pics, I can't see anything that surprised me, and I can't see much that couldn't be from most manufacturers in the world. I certainly wouldn't want to judge the panel gaps, trim fitting, painting of underbody components for 'drip' marks on any of my cars.

[keepleft]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/6948981/holden-recalls-some-10-000-cruze-cars/

All cars can suffer recalls, even Holden (Daewoo, sorry:-)

[GODSMACK]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/6948981/holden-recalls-some-10-000-cruze-cars/

All cars can suffer recalls, even Holden (Daewoo, sorry:-)

Im sure it wont be long until PlanetDavo highlights the word PRECAUTIONARY..

Gotta love how they try and make it sound like its no big deal.

[exwrx]

Ateco refuses to provide Great Wall vehicles for journalists to assess them.

Enough said IMO.

[tezzastreasures]

hi there all

you know that the great wall cars are just old technology from thailand. holden has nothing to do with them. thats why we have the colorado name because holden didn,t own the rodeo name. if you buy the cheap one you get an r9 rodeo and the dearer one is the ra rodeo. they buy the rights from thailand not holden. the same as proton. if you buy one you get old mitsubishi technology from the cc lancer. you buy these cars for a price not their quality. if any one remembers the maruti ute it was a indian copy of the sierra 4wd. omg the build quality was staggering. one side was good the other was held together with 13 tubes of silicone but the same roo shooter bought the only one we ever sold every year due to the fact that they were cheap as chips and bulletproof. horses for courses.

cheers tezza:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[theVman]

Its funny how a lot of the Asian countries and manufacturers swap/copy designs. There are a lot of Mitsubishi express vans floating around on the Pacific Islands which are actually Hyundai or Kia.

For the money they seem ok. Bit of a mix and match. I wouldnt even consider the old shape Rodeo offering, maybe the offering based on thater Rodeo body if I was a tradie on a budget. Havent heard too much about the X240 but at least the styling is within reason... well better than most of these cheap offerings. Drivetrains seem to be mostly Mistubishi which is what Hyundai did at the start also.

Its quite suprising how things change. Our work has just purchased a heap of I30's to replace our Fiesta fleet as the later have simply fallen apart. You would think it would be the other way around!!

[Wezza]

Its quite suprising how things change. Our work has just purchased a heap of I30's to replace our Fiesta fleet as the later have simply fallen apart. You would think it would be the other way around!!
Lol, the i30 would be head & shoulders above most other cars in it's segment these days.

[planetdavo]

Im sure it wont be long until PlanetDavo highlights the word PRECAUTIONARY..

Gotta love how they try and make it sound like its no big deal.

I know one thing I can "highlight". :lmao:
Has godslappa posted a non inflammatory, non Davo related post anywhere on this forum within the last 6 months? :confused:

[planetdavo]

My stance on China's intellectual property issues is purely irrelevant in this context.

Wonder if you'd still feel the same if you no longer had a job to go to.
Think about it. It shouldn't be too hard, as there's plenty of form on the board already...

[planetdavo]

It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true eh Davo?
:lol:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/elections/14922d1203442021-obama-illegals-share-same-message-n522306244_197290_3718.jpg

That's funny seedyrom. :lmao:
(I do know that I am correct. :))

[Martin_D]

Is this the dumbest thread ever when the only person that argues against cheap Asian Cars (Great Wall and Davo) has his wage paid by cheap Asian cars (Daewoo Holden Cruze and Davo). Hypocrite anyone? :eek:

[planetdavo]

Tuna's got his panties in a knot...

[HRT]

Wonder if you'd still feel the same if you no longer had a job to go to.
Think about it. It shouldn't be too hard, as there's plenty of form on the board already...
That's why people like you have to harden the f*ck up and keep improving yourselves. In other words, spend less time scaring yourself with how Asians are stealing your jobs and more time engaging in further education to enhance your prospects of success in society.

If anything, more competition in the industry forces manufacturers like GM to improve its quality whilst decreasing manufacturing costs, which is exactly what Holden is doing with the Captiva and Cruze.


Is this the dumbest thread ever when the only person that argues against cheap Asian Cars (Great Wall and Davo) has his wage paid by cheap Asian cars (Daewoo Holden Cruze and Davo). Hypocrite anyone?
Tuna, Davo's just bitter that he has to keep his KKK outfit in the closet :rofl:

[planetdavo]

That's why people like you have to harden the f*ck up and keep improving yourselves. In other words, spend less time scaring yourself with how Asians are stealing your jobs and more time engaging in further education to enhance your prospects of success in society.

If anything, more competition in the industry forces manufacturers like GM to improve its quality whilst decreasing manufacturing costs, which is exactly what Holden is doing with the Captiva and Cruze.



Point is simply that the Australian manufacturing base and skill base reduces year after year. Just one example, China has killed the textile industry in Aus due to people only seeing the $$$ signs, but not the bigger picture.
That's all. :)

[Carby]

Is this the dumbest thread ever when the only person that argues against cheap Asian Cars (Great Wall and Davo) has his wage paid by cheap Asian cars (Daewoo Holden Cruze and Davo). Hypocrite anyone? :eek:

A rather ill informed comment indeed Mr Tuna - there are a great spectrum of people who are against cheap Asian cars even forgetting the dodgy quality (it will get better) it's just that we don't have a level playing field when it comes to the standard of living and comparity to wages with Australian workers.

It will ultimately see the demise of all Australian car manufacturing and Holden has been clever by tapping into an Asian supplier as a way of keeping a presence in the country.

I suppose many people will say that if we arn't competitive than lets shut down our manufacturing operations - trouble is we will end up being a service industry nation relying on tourism for our revenue............. such a far cry from our first two hundred years don't you think?

[Ausmartin1]

Gee's I'm suprised at all the comments and wanted to see if people would buy anything as long as it's "Cheap".

Looks like a number do and yes it will lead to "TEMPORARY" cheap prices at the COST of local manuafacturing jobs as mentioned by others.
Maybe people not working in the manufacturing industry can not or do not want to understand this.

Even R&D is effected where our federal goverment gave Orbital engine company a grant of $440,413 - which is a Very good thing, but then the first
thing Orbital did was benifit China's Changan’s current petrol engine family with their air assited injection system.

Also in the news Daimler bought 10% of Tesla to only suck up the technology and use in partnership with China BYD. USA technology handed on a platter!

So are we to follow the current USA style of ecnomics of exporting jobs and importing "even more" crap - basicly shooting ourselves in the head at the same time?
I hope we are smarter and look afer Australia's workers - firstly and not totaly rely on the resource export part of our economy is my wish.
:)


Cheers All.

[exwrx]

Carby you are correct, but your average Joe doesnt care less where their car was made, they just want the most car for the least price.

Why we can't compete with other nations on price, or in some cases quality, is complex, but raising the protectionist barriers again is not the answer IMO.

[HRT]

I suppose many people will say that if we arn't competitive than lets shut down our manufacturing operations - trouble is we will end up being a service industry nation relying on tourism for our revenue............. such a far cry from our first two hundred years don't you think?
So, in other words, you'd like to live the lifestyle your convict ancestors had 200 years ago? I certainly hope our politicians don't have the backwards mentality you seem to possess...

Efficiency and competitiveness is part and parcel with globalisation. Unless you want Australia to adopt isolationist policies like North Korea (and you probably do), then you'll just have to live with the fact that global free trade is all about give and take.

[the big fist]

Gee's I'm suprised at all the comments and wanted to see if people would buy anything as long as it's "Cheap".

Looks like a number do and yes it will lead to "TEMPORARY" cheap prices at the COST of local manuafacturing jobs as mentioned by others.
Maybe people not working in the manufacturing industry can not or do not want to understand this.

Even R&D is effected where our federal goverment gave Orbital engine company a grant of $440,413 - which is a Very good thing, but then the first
thing Orbital did was benifit China's Changan’s current petrol engine family with their air assited injection system.

Also in the news Daimler bought 10% of Tesla to only suck up the technology and use in partnership with China BYD. USA technology handed on a platter!

So are we to follow the current USA style of ecnomics of exporting jobs and importing "even more" crap - basicly shooting ourselves in the head at the same time?
I hope we are smarter and look afer Australia's workers - firstly and not totaly rely on the resource export part of our economy is my wish.
:)


Cheers All.

I work in the manufacturing industry. OEM of heavy specialised road going plant. Manufacturing in Australia is pathetic. It will not last unless it is a niche market you are supplying too. Chinese quality is much better IF the company dealing with the Chinese are supplying their own QA procedures and proper checks, not just buying their off the shelf crap.
Bendix 1.5" offset slack adjusters, buy local, truckline supplier $150 on trade account. $5.50 out of Bendix factory in China. Stamped with our own logo.

Australian employees DO NOT support the company, lost entire workforce when the boom hit, company had to almost close the doors, do I feel loyal to employ more, no thanks.

Probably ruffle a lot of feathers but that's how it is from the other side of the fence.

[planetdavo]

So, in other words, you'd like to live the lifestyle your convict ancestors had 200 years ago? I certainly hope our politicians don't have the backwards mentality you seem to possess...

Efficiency and competitiveness is part and parcel with globalisation. Unless you want Australia to adopt isolationist policies like North Korea (and you probably do), then you'll just have to live with the fact that global free trade is all about give and take.

Something that costs $20.00 to produce in Aus costs about $1.00 to produce in China!
You would have to have your head stuck in the sand to think our country has any hope of competing against that. We have minimum wages, 38 hour weeks, superannuation, sick leave, holiday loadings, workcover etc.
What do you think these cheap countries offer their workers??? Chicken feed pay, and nothing else. That is why they are cheap!
If Australians like you only think of the cost of buying something, and not the true long term cost, many Aussies will no longer have manufacturing based jobs, which will then loose the skills base that supports it. That's a massive number of jobs, and our population is increasing every day.
Open your eyes.

[HRT]

Point is simply that the Australian manufacturing base and skill base reduces year after year. Just one example, China has killed the textile industry in Aus due to people only seeing the $$$ signs, but not the bigger picture.
That's all.


You would have to have your head stuck in the sand to think our country has any hope of competing against that. We have minimum wages, 38 hour weeks, superannuation, sick leave, holiday loadings, workcover etc.


If Australians like you only think of the cost of buying something, and not the true long term cost, many Aussies will no longer have manufacturing based jobs, which will then loose the skills base that supports it. That's a massive number of jobs, and our population is increasing every day.
You're more moronic than I thought you were. Your whole criticism of China is premised upon certain Australian industries being shut down because of Australians not seeing "the bigger picture" - a line of argument that does not draw upon logic, rationality or economics, but attempts to play upon emotions of patriotism.

With respect to your citation of the now defunct Australian textiles industry; logic dictates that if one could purchase an identical piece of clothing for half the price, they would buy the cheaper alternative. Most consumers wouldn't be stupid enough to buy Australian made at twice the price, just to maintain your standard of living.

Minimum wages, superannuation, militant unions and workers, sick leave, personal leave e.t.c. IS the crux of the problem, and is what makes Australia such an unappealing country for investors to base their manufacturing operations.

Your average lay-person is not as ignorant as you think they are, PlanetDavo, and knows that patriotism has no place when they can fill up their shopping bags at half the price.

[planetdavo]

You're more moronic than I thought you were.

Your average lay-person is not as ignorant as you think they are, PlanetDavo, and knows that patriotism has no place when they can fill up their shopping bags at half the price.

I'm glad your true colours have fully come out. :rolleyes:

Your thinking is simply representitive of many people's "why should I worry about long term pain, when I can benefit from short term gain" pure and utter selfishness.
See your kids in the dole queue one day...:teach:

[HRT]

Your thinking is simply representitive of many people's "why should I worry about long term pain, when I can benefit from short term gain" pure and utter selfishness.
See your kids in the dole queue one day...
You're obviously not very good when it comes to adopting even a semi-analytical approach to this discussion.

At the end of the day, many middle-class Australians are cash strapped enough as it already is, so it wouldn't make sense for the Australian Government to increase taxes to ease the "long term pain(s)" associated with the demise of certain Australian manufacturers. Furthermore, these "long term pain(s)" will predominantly be suffered by a few, with the majority benefitting from cheaper goods manufactured outside of Australia. If you classify the utter fundamentals of economics as "utter selfishness", then you should relocate yourself to North Korea.

Unlike people of your calibre, I'd have enough self-respect to raise my children properly for them not to be subjected to such volatility. :banana:

[GODSMACK]

See your kids in the dole queue one day...:teach: Personal insult on ones kids... very mature of you Davo.

Your kids too could be in the dole que one day Davo, that is if you and your boyfriend ever decide to adopt...

[C4B]

Plantdavo
Godsmack
HRT

Your name calling has come to an end. The next post in this thread (or ANY thread) baiting each other or calling names will result in a 1 Month ban.

You have been warned.

[Spoolin]

Correct me if I'm wrong...But isn't something like 67% of the components used to build a VE sourced from overseas suppliers...Isn't that unAustralian considering the amount of tax payers money used to prop up a company?

[planetdavo]

Correct me if I'm wrong...But isn't something like 67% of the components used to build a VE sourced from overseas suppliers...Isn't that unAustralian considering the amount of tax payers money used to prop up a company?

It is correct that a fair proportion of any locally made car is made from imported product. Price is why. That's why a new SS isn't much more than a 10 year old SS.
The important thing is that the remainder is still locally made, which means thousands of jobs for Australians in both the supplier industry and in the manufacturer's design and engineering departments, plus the production lines.
Full import cars have little or no involvement from Australians other than in the sales, service and parts side of it. Since they need to exist for locally made cars anyway, you can see that there's a huge number of jobs lost when we don't make cars here.
If people only care about the lowest price of everything, we will lose manufacturing of everything in this country, which is a massive employer of Australians. Since the population is increasing every year, if we lose too many jobs, where will (an increasing) 1/4 of the population suddenly now work???

[bad88u]

this really went off topic,

well i took one x240 for a test drive last xmas for the old man. from the outside they dont look to bad, inside as well is ok. the x240 was ok driving on a straight flat road. i drove up some hills in the back street had my father and brother in the car as well had it in second full WOT then to third and it went very sluggish. it really lacks inn the power department very poorly, i dont think when they bring out the diesel it will make a big difference, it needs a v6 motor, if they did that the car wouldnt be to bad. my father travels to wollongong a few hand full of times a year and i dont see this car making it up those hills without a run up and a chance of getting booked for speeding.

[the big fist]

It is correct that a fair proportion of any locally made car is made from imported product. Price is why. That's why a new SS isn't much more than a 10 year old SS.
The important thing is that the remainder is still locally made, which means thousands of jobs for Australians in both the supplier industry and in the manufacturer's design and engineering departments, plus the production lines.
Full import cars have little or no involvement from Australians other than in the sales, service and parts side of it. Since they need to exist for locally made cars anyway, you can see that there's a huge number of jobs lost when we don't make cars here.
If people only care about the lowest price of everything, we will lose manufacturing of everything in this country, which is a massive employer of Australians. Since the population is increasing every year, if we lose too many jobs, where will (an increasing) 1/4 of the population suddenly now work???

But why should the car industry be so protected?
Look at mining companies and the amount of people,towns and companies tied to those ?

[Martin_D]

But why should the car industry be so protected?

In other parts of the world without significant tariffs local car manufacturers have been forced to build better cars to remain competitive. This way the consumer wins. Australia would be much better off without import tariffs and world priced world standard locally produced cars :)

[A^K^T]

But why should the car industry be so protected?
Look at mining companies and the amount of people,towns and companies tied to those ?

The mines are where the gold , iron ore , coal or what ever it is that is being dug out of the ground are located.

Manufacturing can be moved to where there are people to do the work and are subject to the conditions (tax , labour costs e.t.c) where the plants are set up .

[planetdavo]

But why should the car industry be so protected?
Look at mining companies and the amount of people,towns and companies tied to those ?

Australia simply cannot compete on a level playing field. Our standard of living is simply too high compared to far less developed countries. The only real reason we don't protect ourselves more is for "political" reasons. Making the whole thing rather bizarre, much of Asia protects their own car industies by imposing massive tarrifs on imports, including ones coming from Australia! :confused:
Re mining, it is booming because of China.
Like oil though, most products mined have a known finite life. The pot of gold will end.

[Party Pete]

It amazes me how many people seem to think that there is a level playing out there in the first place. Do people actually think that China, Korea and Malaysia don't subsidise their manufacturing much more heavily than Australia does? If you want a level playing field with these developing countries then Australia needs to pump a lot more money in. Alternatively, we should stop trying to to compete on price with these countries because we just can't. Instead we should have taken the path the Germans did years ago and aim to make better cars that people want to buy at a premium rather than trying to make cheaper cars which aren't really cheap enough. The VE to me is a case in point. At $40,000 rrp for the basic Commodore it is just too expensive to be considered a cheap car, but it isn't built anywhere near well enough compete with the Japanese let alone any of the more premium brands.

[the big fist]

Australia simply cannot compete on a level playing field. Our standard of living is simply too high compared to far less developed countries. The only real reason we don't protect ourselves more is for "political" reasons. Making the whole thing rather bizarre, much of Asia protects their own car industies by imposing massive tarrifs on imports, including ones coming from Australia! :confused:
Re mining, it is booming because of China.
Like oil though, most products mined have a known finite life. The pot of gold will end.

Exactly, so why should the government pump money into Ford or Holden to keep them going when it is just not profitable or competitive. With regards to the mines I was talking about last year when the down turn hit and plenty of people were out of work, lots of companies went under.

[OZChris]

Looks like the thread has deviated from the review of the GWM X240 :(

Anyways, I am going to add my 20 cents to the discussion. The company I work for relies on local manufacture, and as a result a decision was made many moons ago that we would only have Australian made cars - which effective made it Ford/Falcon or Holden/Commodore. Today, we have deviated slightly with the standardisation on Holden, so there are some Captivas in the fleet, but otherwise all Commodores.

What I would ask those of you associated with manufacturing, the next time you deal with a supplier ask them whether they support you by buying your products?

[Wezza]

this really went off topic,

well i took one x240 for a test drive last xmas for the old man. from the outside they dont look to bad, inside as well is ok. the x240 was ok driving on a straight flat road. i drove up some hills in the back street had my father and brother in the car as well had it in second full WOT then to third and it went very sluggish. it really lacks inn the power department very poorly, i dont think when they bring out the diesel it will make a big difference, it needs a v6 motor, if they did that the car wouldnt be to bad. my father travels to wollongong a few hand full of times a year and i dont see this car making it up those hills without a run up and a chance of getting booked for speeding.

How long since you've driven a diesel? A while by the sounds of it. It will more than likely come with the common rail 2.8l motor developed by bosch. In a vehicle like this, common rail diesel > petrol V6 anyday of the week.

[Desertws6]

Sorry if this is a little off the topic, but I think it gives something to think about.

I have an 32 year old Chevy truck that I use for construction. 4 years ago I re-built the carb and everything was great. I must of picked up a some dirt somewhere carb was acting up again. Went back to the same auto parts store and picked up another carb kit. Same kit but this one was made in china. I found the accelerator fuel pump plunger to be far too small to fit into the bore and pump fuel. (approx. 2mm too small)

I did clean and re-use the old pump. The carby was a Rochester 2 bbl, not exactly rocket science with this carb!

If this is any indication of quality control. I would be very, very skeptical about buying an entire automobile from there.

Just a different point of view, no intension to hijack a thread, just food for thought.

,Steve

[dougie]

Had a look the other day at GW and MAHINDRA. The power output seam very low seeing the Mahindra (79Kw) has a 2.5t towing. Mahindra dealer in town is giving them a big push at the moment. They seam to be a bit better equiped and have a few safety features. I find it funny with all government bodies crying over the road toll that they allow any new car/ute/light truck into the Australian market without all safety features. Anyhow I bought a holden Colorado 4x4 cab chassis on that run out 09 deal 30999 on road with tray and aircon. So I guess the Great Wall is lowering prices. Have had two Rodeo's (Old and newer looking ones) for work and put over 150,000 on each with no real issues and being the company work ute I flogged them and treated them like siht in general.

[Ausmartin1]

Well guys I thought I would add to this thread 5 years later on the Chinese quality situation.

Even though Great wall has improved, the big tick I've seen today goes to Foton the other Chinese Ute manufacture with the Cummins diesel built in China.
Was at Baycity Holden in Frankston today and their side lot for other brands they sell was a New Foton Ute.

I got to say the quality - fit and finish from the outside - it's all I saw is dam fantastic.
Up with or BETTER than some Thailand stuff I've seen.

One thing gave me a chuckle - their was QA text marks across the nuts and wheel.
At least you can see they do check the final thing of tightening the wheel nuts.

My how far they have improved in 5 years,
another prediction ....5 years I predict America and other Asian manufactures will have serious quality competition on their hands.
America may find its car manufacturing / export business slowing signs of slowing dramatically by that stage.

[Woodchukka]

Drive one of Hyundai's first cars they sent here. They are miles ahead of where they started. China will get better at it for sure.