Manufacturer Paint

[Mungus]

Why is there so much 'orange peel' in new car paint jobs these days?
Why do we have to accept it?

[v8dude78]

Because all new cars are painted by robots and they only put enough paint on to just get coverage and only enough clear to give a shine

Its all about the dollar have a look underneath the doors or engine bays and there isnt even color there just the undercoat color :vpo:

[Mungus]

Pretty pathetic really. It grew to annoy me after the first few weeks, so i went to have alook in a car yard and they were all the same - lots of peel and primer only on the inside back edge of the gaurd. Some colors like silver, nitrate and even black didn't show it as much. 3000k inspection and dealers comment was 'yeah their all like that, nothing we can do'. I try to put it out of my mind and appreciate the wet glassy look but i always look deeper into the paint and there it is.

[Spoolin]

Don't flame me for this but, GMH has the worst reputation for paint finishes here in Australia. The local built products are the worst of the bunch.
Peel structure isn't that much of an issue but the coverage is absolutely pathetic, there was a particular silver which was pulled not long after going into production as you could see the grey primer underneath it on most panels, utes being the worst of the lot.
Atomic green is an issue as it's transperent and now Poison Ivy, even though it's a dark colour it's causing all sorts of grief because it's transperent.
Don't get me wrong, Ford isn't that far in front, I have an FG in Silhouette and the peel is pretty ordinary, but the colour is pretty even, by choosing black all the shuts and engine bay don't stand out as much.
If you have a choice in colours when buying new...try to keep away from silvers on most cars:)

[mummbles]

this finish is done on purpose as the peel hides imperfections in the finish, as well as minor marks and scuffs being somewhat easier to fix and blend

[matt_b84]

The peely finish is on all cars these days. While it is crappy looking all of the manufacturers are painting like this and the majority accept it and this is why it has become 'acceptable'. As far as the coverage goes, us spraypainters are having a hell of a time matching many of the late model commodore colours because the cars are not covered from the factory. When we go to paint these, our paint covers better but this also changes the colour. Because they are transparent the primer colour is visible through the clear making it very hard mto replicate. It can be done, but a larger area than normal is required for our blends. Holden have stopped making some colours because of the warranty issues. I have done bumper repaints and paint repairs in my shop for the local holden dealer for the last few years and the colours are nice, but getting harder to rectify! The nickel silver still gives me nightmares......

[v8dude78]

The peely finish is on all cars these days. While it is crappy looking all of the manufacturers are painting like this and the majority accept it and this is why it has become 'acceptable'. As far as the coverage goes, us spraypainters are having a hell of a time matching many of the late model commodore colours because the cars are not covered from the factory. When we go to paint these, our paint covers better but this also changes the colour. Because they are transparent the primer colour is visible through the clear making it very hard mto replicate. It can be done, but a larger area than normal is required for our blends. Holden have stopped making some colours because of the warranty issues. I have done bumper repaints and paint repairs in my shop for the local holden dealer for the last few years and the colours are nice, but getting harder to rectify! The nickel silver still gives me nightmares......

Mate +1 here that nickel is a nightmare :vpo:
Why couldnt they just leave the quicksilver on there looks a lot better too:goodjob:

[matt_b84]

I could almost paint quicksilver edge to edge, no blends. Any sparky silver sux but not covered is worse!

[Mungus]

The peely finish is on all cars these days. While it is crappy looking all of the manufacturers are painting like this and the majority accept it and this is why it has become 'acceptable'. As far as the coverage goes, us spraypainters are having a hell of a time matching many of the late model commodore colours because the cars are not covered from the factory. When we go to paint these, our paint covers better but this also changes the colour. Because they are transparent the primer colour is visible through the clear making it very hard mto replicate. It can be done, but a larger area than normal is required for our blends. Holden have stopped making some colours because of the warranty issues. I have done bumper repaints and paint repairs in my shop for the local holden dealer for the last few years and the colours are nice, but getting harder to rectify! The nickel silver still gives me nightmares......

Thanks Matt! Could you answer another on this subject please? Being a spraypainter 'n all!
Is the only way to repair this by claybar etc.. then 2000+ wet/dry, then cut & polish and how much of the original paint thickness (whatever that is?) remains.

[matt_b84]

Its really a job for the pro's. To remove the orange peel you would need to sand the paint back and cut & polish. The clay block will not flatten out the paint at all, only remove contaminents. A very good detailer shoud be able to do a cut and polish to flatten out the paint a bit, but you do risk cutting through the clear on edges in particular. The results of this are probably not worth the risk, as the cost of rectifying the damage would hurt. The only sure way to fix this is a full repaint. If you want it totally flat you should have it painted, then let it dry for a few days then block it out and reclear it again. After this you can then sand the whole car and polish to achieve the flat glassy look you are after. By the way, this will cost alot of money. I'd charge around the 10K for a job like this plus any repairs.

[Spoolin]

There is a particular detailer here in Melbourne who is the self proclaimed as th 'best detailer in Australia', he regularly performs orange peel removal on new or relatively new vehicles. Although the immediate results look great, he really has no idea of the damage he has done and the failure of clear coat he has now put his customers at risk of!
I stopped painting on the shop floor in 2001, colours were far better then than now, I know this as I'm still in the game and listen to complaints on a regular basis but, in saying that..most of the newer tradies can't colour match to save themselves.

[Mungus]

Thanks for the insight. Sounds like I'll just have to put up with it for a few years! Shame though; to think twenty years ago we got better paint jobs.

[matt_b84]

There is a particular detailer here in Melbourne who is the self proclaimed as th 'best detailer in Australia', he regularly performs orange peel removal on new or relatively new vehicles. Although the immediate results look great, he really has no idea of the damage he has done and the failure of clear coat he has now put his customers at risk of!
I stopped painting on the shop floor in 2001, colours were far better then than now, I know this as I'm still in the game and listen to complaints on a regular basis but, in saying that..most of the newer tradies can't colour match to save themselves.

Depending on what paint you use in your shop, some of the paint companies have great customer service and will assist with difficult colours if required. It is rare that a tradie is good at colours these days as they have come to rely on blends far too much.

[Spoolin]

Yes you're right about paint companies, who do you use? But you can't deny that it's not the paint companies problem, but you must admit painters who can't colour match should be nothing but preppers.

[matt_b84]

We use glasurit and their backup is great if we have an issue.

[v8dude78]

We use glasurit and their backup is great if we have an issue.

Just out of curiosity do you use their HS or MS clear always found their HS clear to go on and look very thick once the job was finished
I much prefer the MS clear goes on a lot easier and looks a million times better on the job

[Spoolin]

If you want HS to lay down flatter, drop the tin of clear into a bucket of hot tap water, this will bring it up to temp as when it's sitting on the shelf it's usually stone cold.

[v8dude78]

Yeah used to do that and it did go on better but once the job has been baked to me it just has that thick plastic look to it that you dont seem to get with MS

[matt_b84]

Its all about the application. For the deepest and flattest look, HS is the go if you have a painter that can spray it. It will take a lot longer to dry out completely. With the MS alot of guys dont reduce it at all and it is totally workable after 35mins @65 degrees. We use MS daily on the average insurance job but if we have a job that needs it we will use HS. The MS is also much more forgiving to spray, HS will solvent boil very easily if loaded up to much or not completely flashed off. The HS is by the way about $30 more a can and costs more in time so if you want it on your car expect to pay more.

[v8dude78]

We reduce the MS around 20% gives us a very fine even finish, true about the HS with regards to it loading up have seen some guys reduce it as much as 30% with pressure pumped all the way up
Kind of defeats the purpose of using HS, less overspray in the air and more on the job etc