Hsv's next power "upgrade"?

[Pickles]

There's been lots of discussion on the forum about Ford's new "Coyote" engine, and it certainly looks to be a good bit of gear.
I'm not saying that HSV will need an upgrade with the release of this engine...maybe they will, maybe they won't,....that will be up to them.
But if they do, what will they do? All of the "Factory" G.M. LS3 engines I've seen, both here & in the U.S. are around 317/318KW......I've seen nothing else as far as a "Factory" engine is concerned until we get to LSA/LS9 which would be a BIG step up....certainly not a mere "upgrade".
I couldn't see HSV swapping camshafts, doing headwork etc......so, if they needed say 350/360KW.....what would they do?
Cheers, Pickles.

[255-LS1]

the power war will never end lol

but as you say they wont bother with doing manual hands on mods like cams headwork etc.

So that leaves supercharger or LS7. But doubt they will do that cos W427 people will get real upset about that cos they paid too much for the car lol.

[SHANESVZSS]

the ls3 imo is more than capable , just dont detune the dam thing so much!! 330kw would be achievable , also modify intake..oh and put the ve on a diet lol

[Hqcoupe350]

If they use the OTRCAI and headers off the W427 then there's no reason why 340-350kw couldnt be achievable. They seem to be stealing parts off the W427 for new models so why not.

[Vulture]

Direct injection technology for higher compression?
As above, OTR and better exhausts (bypass valves standard)?
I can't see them using the LS7
The LS9 is 'too good' for a small power up but don't rule it out for a special edition
Maybe the LSA?

[duke5700]

DI and more compression for better power and litres per 100kms.

I could see the LSA for use in lower end HSVs and LS9 for the GTS :1peek: in a dream.

[QIKMIK]

Being that Walkinshaw Performance now offers a full drivetrain warranty with their supercharger package that extends to cover the full new car warranty period (conditions apply) and the general availabilty of that same package as the VXR8 "Bathurst", I reckon the next step has to be factory blowers.

It would be a cheaper option than importing an LSA/LS9 and offer similar power outputs....and it's already ADR complied. Wasn't there speculation of a 375kw blown Coyote? A detuned WP190-equipped LS3 would kick its rrrs.

Mick

[pmac]

the ls3 imo is more than capable , just dont detune the dam thing so much!! 330kw would be achievable , also modify intake..oh and put the ve on a diet lol

Hsv might have to crack out carbon fiber panels soon. commodore weight isnt that far off 2t.

[cosmo vyss]

I think HSV will go the supercharger route. There are plenty of suppliers and with the walky mob offering driveline warranty this would not be a stretch for them. They could then put the LS3 into the stock v8 line up and still remain in touch with ford power outputs. I also think there is room in the current engine line ups for improvements with direct injection,better induction and exhaust set up. Whose to say that holden haven't got a new engine project underway that we don't know about yet. Also the is always the option of a LS9 GTS. I know the W427 guys would be pissed, but its not like holden/hsv to look after there customers with new car releases.

[255-LS1]

I know the W427 guys would be pissed, but its not like holden/hsv to look after there customers with new car releases.

maybe... maybe not. remembering that HSV rated the LS2 powered VZ HSV's at 297kw (just shy of 300KW) ... possibly to not piss those off that had just put out close to 100k for a VY1 or VY2 GTS... still giving the GTS owners a level of exclusivity and "i've still got more power" wank.

But shanesvzss is right, the LS3 is plenty capable so even with a OTR and better exhaust they could be uprated quite nicely.

[goofafidamedes]

maybe... maybe not. remembering that HSV rated the LS2 powered VZ HSV's at 297kw (just shy of 300KW) ... possibly to not piss those off that had just put out close to 100k for a VY1 or VY2 GTS... still giving the GTS owners a level of exclusivity and "i've still got more power" wank.

But shanesvzss is right, the LS3 is plenty capable so even with a OTR and better exhaust they could be uprated quite nicely.

Actually, the 297kw was to not out-do the then King of the GM Tree, the C6 Corvette which was rated at 298kw, which was only a couple of weeks old when the LS2 HSV's were announced.

And the 297kw rating was a tad conservative too ;)

[XUV]

Actually, the 297kw was to not out-do the then King of the GM Tree, the C6 Corvette which was rated at 298kw, which was only a couple of weeks old when the LS2 HSV's were announced.

And the 297kw rating was a tad conservative too ;)

and HSV like the number 7 .

[Party Pete]

Actually the engine which will be most in need of upgrading will be the SS / SSV. With the power downgrade last year and the likelihood that the new XR8 will have a decent improvement in power, the SS will have a significant disadvantage here, at least from a marketing perspective.

[SHANESVZSS]

Actually the engine which will be most in need of upgrading will be the SS / SSV. With the power downgrade last year and the likelihood that the new XR8 will have a decent improvement in power, the SS will have a significant disadvantage here, at least from a marketing perspective.

i was just thinking that to , HSV have plenty of options as far as power goes , the ss/v ect are the ones that are in need of a power upgrade , the xr8 has power advantage as it is , its good tho because now HSV/Holden have some work to do.. win win for us :smilesandbanana:

edit: having said that the SS/SSV are not embarrased by the HSV's at the track , ive seen a few E HSV vs SS's at wsid and they can hold their own for a while..

[Resetar]

Mabe a good situation quoted output for the xr8 is 5lt with supercharger on fuel in australia is 315kw/550nm so holden might have to match that with yes!! LS3 317/550nm we can all hope :bow::bow:

[YMK]

theres a member on the ford forums that reckons the HSV Sportwagon in the Bathurst 12 hour had LS7 bits used on it, and the reason it didn't get diqualified was because walkinshaw argued these parts were meant for the future updates to the LS3. So i think this could be the answer to the OP's questions?


Well, as expected, the Sportswagon got away with cheating yet again. Funny how it ran components from the LS7, and Mr Walkingshaw says that these particular components are from the upcoming "update" of the LS3..... Its just typical Walkingshaw and Holden in Motorsport. These guys certainly know how to destroy categories......
Maybe next year, we should rock up with a 1000hp Twin Turbo F6 and say that FPV are planning to run this engine......

Utter disgrace Walkinshaw






Any idea what these components might be? Wouldn't be the heads, would it?


From memory, it was the Camshaft, headers, valves (or valve springs)..... But the camshaft was the major one.....

I don't know why they didn't run the 427 Munro again, and pretend its a current spec production car..... Holden and Motorsport, its simply an utter disgrace that the powers that be, can't just treat them like everyone else, and if they break the rules, tough titties, penalise them. It will kill the category yet again, and as has already been mentioned, guys simply won't want to enter if Holden is competing as they know what Holden do to win????

Sorry for my attitude on this matter, but it infuriates me, how they are "allowed" to get away with this crap.....

Oh, plus James O'Brien has resigned, due to what is happening to the race....



http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11274211&page=8&pp=30


Awsome if true. Nothing like a good biff at the track, and knowing what fpv are like HSV might outsmart them by offering the overall package. Can not wait for next years 12hr.

[Daniel996]

:rofl: Sounds like a lot of sour grapes at gettiing beaten by a wagon to me :)

Cheers
Dan

[NefariousLS1]

alot of grey grapes lol

[QIKMIK]

If what I read is correct, the XR8 nameplate will either disappear or become part of the FPV stable as Ford try to realign the company image with the rest of the Global Ford "Eco" line of products, leaving FPV as a "seperate" company, running all the gas guzzling V8s.

A lot of speculation about this in Australian Muscle Car.

Mick

[FireArc]

Yes, the XR8 could go 'back' to FPV ala the Tickford days.

IMO the current HSV/Holden engines have ample power capabilities. Do they have ample efficiency capabilities when the wick is turned up?

I'm not talking aftermarket as we all know what tuners can do to extract power and better economy. I'm talking the ability to meet upcoming Euro standards (right through to Euro V and Euro VI), plus additional power, plus better economy, plus maintaining reliability by not leaning out too much etc etc etc.

They would certainly have something up their sleeve.

What IS interesting is with the current GM Bankruptcy issues where GM is potentially going 'public' ala Telstra. So with the general public leaning towards all things 'green' and 'small' (such as smaller engine size, smaller body size), will we see a new culture coming out of GM? Will the public start having an influence on how GM operate where the green and small engines start taking precedence over big V8's?? Not to mention US Government ownership and presence on the GM board...

It has very interesting ramifications.

[Vulture]

Perhaps a diet for the Commodores/HSVs would be better than increases in power? Although, weight loss is a pricey exercise. Still, this would enable better performance as well as better handling, braking etc. I would like to see an HSV with a carbon fibre bonnet etc but I fear price is the limiting factor.

[ROGRSS]

Holden / HSV seem to follow the US camaro and Corvette cars engine wise ... so i guess a supercharged HSV isn't out of the question... since there is now the ZR1 Vette :bow::bow:

[XUV]

Mabe a good situation quoted output for the xr8 is 5lt with supercharger on fuel in australia is 315kw/550nm so holden might have to match that with yes!! LS3 317/550nm we can all hope :bow::bow:

then HSV would go either Supercharged LS3 or a LS7 , either way , it's all good :goodjob:

[FireArc]

then HSV would go either Supercharged LS3 or a LS7 , either way , it's all good :goodjob:

"Would" is a strong word.

Open question: Have there been any hints at all from Holden/HSV on plans to 'counter' the Coyote? Do they feel a need to? Is there a need to? Maybe not...?

GM seem to have all of these tricks in the bag but are they the right tricks? Have GM (for once) been caught napping? So many questions with interesting answers!

The Walkinshaw supercharger package doesn't count as that is an aftermarket arrangement.

[SHANESVZSS]

^ interesting and true , maybe just like the xr6t whenit first came out , holden (& hsv for that matter) wernt ready and for a while had no answer? and still dont have one for the 6t??

[XUV]

The Walkinshaw supercharger package doesn't count as that is an aftermarket arrangement.

Maybe it's being done to see what the reliability is like ,
as it'd be much cheaper to bolt on power then cube up .

And they run a low psi don't they and they still get an easy 400kw plus all those torques :goodjob: as Clarkson would say '' powwerrrrr ...... ''

[Shulkor]

I hope HSV don't use blowers or turbos i would much rather a better base engine to mod.

[macca_779]

I hope HSV don't use blowers or turbos i would much rather a better base engine to mod.

Well you would be in the minority there. A blown engine is automatically a better engine to mod as far as bang for buck goes. Look at the XR6-T guys.

[steve_t]

I hope HSV don't use blowers or turbos i would much rather a better base engine to mod.

LS3 is not a good 'un?

[Martin_D]

Have there been any hints at all from Holden/HSV on plans to 'counter' the Coyote? Do they feel a need to? Is there a need to? Maybe not...?

Remember this is a company that stated on the record they do not see FPV as competition.........instead they look to AMG :rofl: :lol: :lol: :diddy:

In my limited take of it HSV wont give two tosses what FPV do. They put a Halloween face on the current E2 to scare buyers off and still they cant build enough of them to satisfy demand. FPV is no longer a blip on the radar :eek:

[Nightrain]

Gen V Small Block with port fuel injection, variable valve timing (VVT) and dual-cam phasing

GM News (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gm-reveals-small-block-v-8-direct-injection-wardsauto-com-54138/)

[Jac001]

Perhaps a diet for the Commodores/HSVs would be better than increases in power? Although, weight loss is a pricey exercise. Still, this would enable better performance as well as better handling, braking etc. I would like to see an HSV with a carbon fibre bonnet etc but I fear price is the limiting factor.

+1

Removing a couple of hundred kilo's from the commodore would be better as you can spread the cost of development over every car built (both 6's & 8).

This would aid in better performance and feul economy, so the whole commodore brand improves.

[Jac001]

Gen V Small Block with port fuel injection, variable valve timing (VVT) and dual-cam phasing

GM News (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gm-reveals-small-block-v-8-direct-injection-wardsauto-com-54138/)


Any more news? The original article is dated 2007.

[QIKMIK]

+1

Removing a couple of hundred kilo's from the commodore would be better as you can spread the cost of development over every car built (both 6's & 8).

This would aid in better performance and feul economy, so the whole commodore brand improves.Australia has a bucketload of bauxite and a few smelters...how much do aluminium panels cost? That'd save a fair bit of weight. Maybe HSVs could be built using aluminium body and panel a la Audi.

Mick

[Party Pete]

The problem with Aluminium is that it is fairly soft so easily marked and there are very few repairers able to repair it. So, insurance costs go up very quickly. Probably more quickly than Commodore buyers are going to accept. Plus, they are usually bonded together with special glues and require different manufacturing methods. So, although the raw material isn't too bad, the cost of going over to it is very high. Hence why only top on models of very few brands use it.

[theVman]

I would have thought manufacturers would have started toying with plastic panels by now - surely the technology is getting close where you can produce light weight quality panels - plastic having a memory is good as well as it doesnt dent as easy.

[Martin_D]

Nissan X-Trail had plastic panels nearly 10 years ago :)