VZ Alloytec Engine HELP!

[razorbackz]

Hi Guys i have a VZ with Alloytec engine in it. i have a major problem. i had an issue with the car not starting so i got it towed to holden to check it out. while i was there i said can you do a service on it and service the brakes.
they had the car for 4 days and when i went into them they have taken the whole engine to bits and saying that the engine is blown!!! now they are saying its a min to fix 6000 !!! i never told them to take the thing apart in the first place now they are telling me to come pick the car up in pieces.

what should i do!?!?!?!?
shouldnt they put it back together since i never told them to dismantile it in the 1st place.

[REDHOTLS3]

There,s always two sides to a story, what you agreed to and what they thought you agreed to. But in saying that I would have thought they would give you a call to embark on such major work you would think.

[BOBGEN111]

I am not sure what you can do about the dealer but holmart have alloytech motors cheap.
http://holmart.com.au/online/category5_1.htm

Goodluck on dealing with them but it depends on what you told them to do and how they took it.

[razorbackz]

well any works i told them to inform me before they proceed in doing anything. i was very specific on that. i think its total shit really. i didnt take my car to holden and say hi guys rip the thing to bits and charge me a bucket load of money. wtf? you would thing id get a call 1st!

where do i stand do i take the car back ripped into bits or make them put it back together in the state the car was dropped off in!.

now they ripped the head off its in need of a new head gasket. it didnt even blow a head gasket! wtf.!

[daskip]

what was the initial conversation?

if you had asked them to just diagnose and quote on the problem first before proceeding then you have a fair argument not to foot any of the bill besides diagnoses.

any reputable workshop would of told you the problems before proceeding with such a massive job

ask to speak to the boss and find out why they proceeded without your authorization and if your still not happy with what he says then call up consumer affairs and the MTA

if they have acted in a way that the MTA is not happy with they will go under investigation and if found to of acted in a manner that misleads the customer they will risk loosing there license from the MTA and massive fines.

let us know how u go

[razorbackz]

i will do, thats what i was thinking. i only asked to diag the problem and let me know the cost of repair. like i said i had to go in to them and see my car in little pieces and all they can say is the motor is blown. im like wtf? i was working with no problem the day before no hassle at all. i drove it home fine didnt overheat not a issue. im pretty pissed off that they could take it apart without my consent.

thanks guys.

[planetdavo]

As per most situations, there is likely to be two sides to this story. We will, of course, only hear one of them.
Fact is that with internal engine damage, it often needs dismantling to correctly diagnose and quote.
In this situation, it is considered "normal" practice within the trade to charge a fee for restoring the car back to pre-dismantled condition if the owner doesn't go ahead and have the job done. Part of the reason being that you could simply take it somewhere else, tell them what place A said was wrong with it, and save considerable money by removing place B's need to diagnose the issue.
They have, after all, had to pay a mechanic to do this work, rather than earn money on another car.

[GMMAD]

try the acc ,mta or dept of fair trading
that is bull sh1t you went in to diagnose a hard to start problem
it would be very unlikely it would be an internal problem

[redvxr8clubby]

So is there any issues emeging with the alloytechs, now they are over 5 years old? I have heard of timing chain needing to be replaced. How many Km's on this one?

[planetdavo]

So is there any issues emeging with the alloytechs, now they are over 5 years old? I have heard of timing chain needing to be replaced. How many Km's on this one?

The timing chain problem was more the early ones.
Usually, the first symptom of it was the check engine light illuminating, due to the cam sensors reading the camshaft timing as being way out.

[planetdavo]

try the acc ,mta or dept of fair trading
that is bull sh1t you went in to diagnose a hard to start problem
it would be very unlikely it would be an internal problem

Bit hard to make this generic statement, based off what the op said.
What if it wouldn't start due to a broken crank, or broken rod, or valves hitting pistons due to timing chain failure, or a combination of several things?
Like I said earlier, there are two sides to any story, and we have only heard a tiny bit of one side of it so far. We haven't even heard what they found wrong, just that it's "blown"! :confused:

[vicarious]

So is there any issues emeging with the alloytechs, now they are over 5 years old? I have heard of timing chain needing to be replaced. How many Km's on this one?

i think with early ve's the timing chains were stretched by a couple of mm

[vr5speedv6]

The whole story sounds like BS to me!

[planetdavo]

The whole story sounds like BS to me!

OP appears to have joined the forum to post this thread up. :yup:

[razorbackz]

that car has 150k on the clock. there was NO engine lights coming up! NO errors!. when i ask them to be specific whats "BLOWN" they cant even tell me just saying the engine is Stuffed. some diagnosis that is. ohhh its stuffed wtf is that shit. why should i have to pay to have the thing put back together when i never told them to take it apart!.

general rule is when a motor is dead you would know about it before it shits itself. engine light comes on! car runs like shit!, blows smoke! rod blew out the block! SOMETHING!. i just think its all shit when i go and as the so called "Mechanic" and tells me its stuffed!. thats just bs.

[cookie_ssv]

sounds like the drivers side chain has snapped and bent all the valves on rh bank.. have seen this a couple of times already.. had a lady drive hers in complaining it was running rough.. she was driving with only 3 cyl's..

all the chains guides and tensioners are about 2 grand by them selves, plus new valves and head gasket, 6k does sound a bit much but maybe thats a new head too??

[mmciau]

that car has 150k on the clock. there was NO engine lights coming up! NO errors!. when i ask them to be specific whats "BLOWN" they cant even tell me just saying the engine is Stuffed. some diagnosis that is. ohhh its stuffed wtf is that shit. why should i have to pay to have the thing put back together when i never told them to take it apart!.

general rule is when a motor is dead you would know about it before it shits itself. engine light comes on! car runs like shit!, blows smoke! rod blew out the block! SOMETHING!. i just think its all shit when i go and as the so called "Mechanic" and tells me its stuffed!. thats just bs.

Please tell us exactly what you were doing with the car for the 3 trips/uses before you found out it wouldn't start? It just may give us a thought about why?

Mike

[planetdavo]

Maybe once he heard $6K, the shock prevented him hearing the explanation...
6K will tend to do that. :yup:

[redvxr8clubby]

that car has 150k on the clock. there was NO engine lights coming up! NO errors!. when i ask them to be specific whats "BLOWN" they cant even tell me just saying the engine is Stuffed. some diagnosis that is. ohhh its stuffed wtf is that shit. why should i have to pay to have the thing put back together when i never told them to take it apart!.

general rule is when a motor is dead you would know about it before it shits itself. engine light comes on! car runs like shit!, blows smoke! rod blew out the block! SOMETHING!. i just think its all shit when i go and as the so called "Mechanic" and tells me its stuffed!. thats just bs.

If "stuffed" is all you've been told that's pretty crap response. I don't see any point paying to put it back together. You are probably better off to get some prices on a replacement engine, and work out your options from there. Someone earlier suggested Holmart. You might be able to get a decent engine from a wreckers, sounds like good advice would be to put a new timing chain in if you get a used engine. Doesn't sound like a used high Km VZ (and presumably at least early VE's also) is a very astute purchase, or work on the basis alloytech timing chain, is like a timing belt - replace it about 100,000Km and hopefully avoid something like this.

[planetdavo]

Doesn't sound like a used high Km VZ (and presumably at least early VE's also) is a very astute purchase, or work on the basis alloytech timing chain, is like a timing belt - replace it about 100,000Km and hopefully avoid something like this.

It was a batch issue, not a design issue, so there is nothing fundamentally wrong that should worry people. The stretched chain issue usually showed up at fairly low kms, generally under 20,000kms.
The later chain design was introduced to reduce the chain whirring noise Alloytec's had.

[Fnomna]

Did they change just the chain? So putting a new chain on an older engine would fix the stretching and noise issues?

[redvxr8clubby]

It was a batch issue, not a design issue, so there is nothing fundamentally wrong that should worry people. The stretched chain issue usually showed up at fairly low kms, generally under 20,000kms.
The later chain design was introduced to reduce the chain whirring noise Alloytec's had.

Thanks for the info Davo. Good info.

[mickeyVX350]

I have a bit of Timing chain rattle at cold start... sort of scares me... especially at 223,000K!

[pah]

Hi Guys,

I've heard of a couple of Alloytech owners with timing chain issues. A workmate was advised by his Holden dealer to buy an engine from a wrecking yard to avoid the steep repair bill. As I understand it, his engine was merely rattly. No valve damage.

Is it true that the timing chain cover is glued on and must be replaced after timing chain replacement?

If this is the story with timing chains, rubber belts are looking like a better alternative?



PAH

[planetdavo]

Did they change just the chain? So putting a new chain on an older engine would fix the stretching and noise issues?

It was a narrower chain that required different sprockets, so it would be quite a job replacing all this.
The replacement chain for the earlier Alloytec's isn't the quiter design, but it removes the premature stretching issue.

[planetdavo]

Hi Guys,

Is it true that the timing chain cover is glued on and must be replaced after timing chain replacement?

If this is the story with timing chains, rubber belts are looking like a better alternative?



PAH

The timing cover does not use a material gasket as such. It uses liquid gasket, and does not require full cover replacement unless it's physically broken.
There's really nothing to worry about with the chains on these motors. There are massive numbers of Alloytec's on the roads, and only a very small number of horror stories.

[razorbackz]

sorry guys been awhile since i was on last. still has not been fixed its been weeks of arguing with them just to get me car back together and outta there cost me $800 just to get it out of holden. biggest load of bullshit really. had to pay them to get it released. rang consumer affairs but not much help basicly told me to pay the fee or they were going to charge me $200 a day it was there. total shit. will NEVER go there again.

[stealth vn]

mate this is not good, however look on ebay ect u can come accross cheap compleate motors fairly easy would be best bet or u could buy my vz lol