ASE T800 Stealth Kit..Big Thumbs Down! - Now with apology

[Clubbin_Yall]

Hey guys am new to the site. I installed an ASE t800 stealth single turbo kit to my vx clubsport and am very disappointed with the power result. So much for the stock vt auto 5.7l making 347 kilowatts on 8 psi :flipoff: I have a comp cam with springs and running 11psi with an eboost2 and only managed 300 kilowatts. Not really the $51/kilowatt as the claimed. Am very disappointed with the outcome of the kit and would definitely not recommend it to anyone thinking of the single turbo kit.

[stig]

who installed it? (cool if you would prefer to keep that to yourself)

[Jonesy40]

is the cam suited to the boost?

[Clubbin_Yall]

i did everything myself except for the tune. Am a qualified mech and have a fair bit of experience with ls1's and custom fabrications

[troytroy]

Mate, to be honest. There could be a million things why it didn't make the power...and it most likely is nothing to do with the kit and is probably more to do with how it was put togther, tuned and the state of the engine before the kit.

Was it a quality forum sponsor that put it together and tuned it? Did you get a baseline figure (also a general idea of health of the engine as well)

Obviously people on here will want to know what AFR, boost pressure etc you used in the final run to help diagnose the issue.

[KPWISHN]

Who tuned it? Sounds about right to me anyway for an auto vt with a cam.

[Clubbin_Yall]

no cam isnt a tubo cam is a n/a cam

[Clubbin_Yall]

power torque tuned it. Engine is very healthy. afr when 3/4 throttle is reached goes to 10:1, thats with a spike of boost to 13 but corrected to 11psi. Injectors are at 87% duty cycle

[Clubbin_Yall]

there was nothing wrong with install am more than competent and everything went together fine.

[vuss383]

Very interesting ..... Am a qualified mech and have a fair bit of experience with ls1's ...... no cam isnt a tubo cam is a n/a cam .

Maybe think a little about the above 2 statements .

Troy

[stig]

maybe provide a few more details to save everyone asking.

who tuned?

what dyno?

track times, if any?

how many km's (engine)?

boost pressure and results for each pressure?

etc etc..

[Clubbin_Yall]

on a mainline dyno done at power torque. No track time as yet hopefull next weekend end. Engine has less than 20000kms on it

[vuss383]

Did you ask Mark what his thoughts were on the power output ?? How does it drive ??
Also if using an E-Boost 2 , why are you seeing a boost spike ?

Troy

[sld86]

afr 10.1, at how many psi. bit rich lol, not sure an ls1 but on a l98 with the t1000 that would be rich as donald trump

[Clubbin_Yall]

mark doesnt work there. He works at ormeau branch down the coast. Yes spoke to tuner myself. I have been back and forth a few times. At first they thought it was driveline rob as it only put out 244kw with 9psi. But suspiscions were wrong as i ran it up on another dyno ato check for auto slip or plateau and it only put out 276horse power at 9 psi on a dyno dynamics. Then they found out it was the release point on the dyno. They increased it from 80km to 110km and it made more power. They think it was the 2800rpm stally making it hard to perform a good reading at 80km/hour. They then wound it up to 11 at my request and the 300kw figure was reached

[Clubbin_Yall]

am seeing boost spike due to the 5pound wastegate spring which according to ase turbosmart should be a 7pound. Even hooked my eboost up for high exhaust back pressure to stop waste gate creep.

[vuss383]

What are your cam specs ??

[Clubbin_Yall]

unfortunately i do not know as i bought the car with the cam in it :bawl: and they assured me that 10:1 is fine as if they were to remove some fuel power would go backwards

[Uncle Tone]

There are heaps of these kits installed and producing great numbers.

You have done something wrong. For a start put the stock cam back in. Then take the eboost off it.

Does it at least feel a bit more powerful?

Edit: just noticed you have a stally in it.....they rob power too.

[10sec_rx7]

so you have a auto with a stally and a dirty NA cam and your blaming the turbo kit for not making power??

change the cam, remove the stally and it will make 350rwkw..

[10sec_rx7]

Then take the eboost off it.



why would you do that for?

[Evman]

Something is very wrong there. 244kw on 9psi? 244(rw)kw for a small cam only, if not a tight bolt-on only LS1 is more realistic. No matter what, 9psi on top of that has to produce more power. Is the turbo on backwards? :lol:

I'd be finding out the details of that cam, or as has been said, getting rid of it.

[Clubbin_Yall]

some how im sceptical of me removing those components will make me more power. Maybe another 10 to 20 kw still no where near the 347kw

[ute469]

How's the gearbox going? is it slipping at all?

For what its worth I make 350 RWKW with a T1000, with a 3200 stall. Stock engine.

[TIR33D]

your numbers are hard to understand, hp to kw and then you finish with 300kw at 11psi. Does this mean you saw 300kw /400hp on the dyno or is that your driveline loss estimate of your flywheel output

[Clubbin_Yall]

haha yeah i thought it was on backwards too! Its believeable. Yes does feel more powerful but with the power curve is hard to compare. I had 272kw naturally aspirated

[Uncle Tone]

why would you do that for?

To take it out of the equation.

[vuss383]

Tone , nothing wrong with E-Boost 2 if you understand how they work & know how to set them up . With gate pressure settings & sensitivity there should be no reason as to why a spike should be present .

To me AFR's seem on the rich side but that is a case of each to their own when tuning .

Any idea on how much timing is run in the mid to top end ?
Does the cam sound angry ??

Troy

[10sec_rx7]

To take it out of the equation.

boost controller is not going to effect the power.. the stall converter and the wrong cam will..

[Clubbin_Yall]

i made 300 kw at the wheels. the horse power figure was on the dyno dynamics dyno which was 276 hp. Its running 7 degrees of timing and cam is a bit angry

[vuss383]

Start with a cam change .

Troy

[Clubbin_Yall]

what would you suggest troy?

[Clubbin_Yall]

How's the gearbox going? is it slipping at all?

For what its worth I make 350 RWKW with a T1000, with a 3200 stall. Stock engine.

Is it laggy? What size waste gate spring and how much boost? No gearbox has been built up with carbonite band, reaction shell, modified friction plates and clutches, superhold servo etc. 2800rpm stall

[vuss383]

Believe it or not a stock cam can produce some reasonable numbers . I wont suggest any particular cam , but I will tell you overlap is not boost friendly. If you say the cam is angry ( assuming you mean has a lot of lope at idle & comes on reasonably strong mid rev range ) then it will more then likely have a largish duration & a close split - Not being boost friendly at all .

Troy

[Clubbin_Yall]

yeah it is defs fairly lumpy at idle. I thought a cam wouldnt have phased it that much. ok cools thanks troy. Im thinking i should maybe just do my rods as well and wind the boost up

[duke5700]

Does it fry the tyres off it on the street as it comes on boost? What fuel? What exhaust?

Dyno figures really mean squat, I think one of the PT boys was making 267rwkw and running low 11 sec qtrs so I wouldn't get so wrapped up in dyno figures.

[Evman]

If you're going to do rods, do the pistons and the rest too :yup:

[Clubbin_Yall]

Does it fry the tyres off it on the street as it comes on boost? What fuel? What exhaust?

Dyno figures really mean squat, I think one of the PT boys was making 267rwkw and running low 11 sec qtrs so I wouldn't get so wrapped up in dyno figures.

it does fry the tyres on the street but it did that n/a. Running 98octane with booster. Custom exhaust which is..screamer pipe plumb back with a 3 inch to my cat which is hollow then to my xpipe where the single slides over the x pipe then its dual 3 inch to the back with 2 mufflers only. Yeah it is hard to gauge but i had 272 kw n/a and only ran 13.0 on 19 inch wheels

[Clubbin_Yall]

If you're going to do rods, do the pistons and the rest too :yup:

lol i need that endless money pit. Can i dip out of yours:jester:

[blnls1]

yeah it is defs fairly lumpy at idle. I thought a cam wouldnt have phased it that much. ok cools thanks troy. Im thinking i should maybe just do my rods as well wind the boost up

I'd be more worried about pistons than rods when increasing boost.

Get rid of that cam... and put in a cam thats suited to a turbo application!!

As said before largish duration & a close split .... not boost friendly!

[Clubbin_Yall]

I'd be more worried about pistons than rods when increasing boost.

Get rid of that cam... and put in a cam thats suited to a turbo application!!

As said before largish duration & a close split .... not boost friendly!

ok cools note taken.:goodjob:

[jca]

Hi, trust me the t-800 set up is not ur problem as we have fitted a few of these kits for example one of our customers vehicle specs r as follows vy ss a4 224/230/114lsa camshaft, 3500rpm stall t-800 kit 9psi adjusted with boost T power out put 368rwkw 11.3 quarter mile on a summer day at heathcote. Tuneing a turbo charged vehicle is completely different to tuning a n/a or supercharged vehicle as u have to have the correct timing curve to suit how the boost comes on as a rule i rule aim 4 a 11.8 a/f the thing i did notice with the t-800 turbo when i logged boost presure is that it went to 9psi when the stall hit , but by around 5000rpm boost had dropped to 5psi slowly dropped untill red line the next step was to fit e- boost etc but were now building lsx stroker for customer with a bigger turbo from ase as the customer wants more, i have no dount that this same set up in a manual would make 400rwkw on my dyno. hope this helps. regards Jason

[PSI 346]

when i first fitted my t1000 kit around 2yrs ago it made 358rwkw @10psi on power torque dyno with a 232/234 comp cam. this is a m6 though. made 280rwkw before. will the cam really make that much difference or maybe there something else restricting it.

[Clubbin_Yall]

Hi, trust me the t-800 set up is not ur problem as we have fitted a few of these kits for example one of our customers vehicle specs r as follows vy ss a4 224/230/114lsa camshaft, 3500rpm stall t-800 kit 9psi adjusted with boost T power out put 368rwkw 11.3 quarter mile on a summer day at heathcote. Tuneing a turbo charged vehicle is completely different to tuning a n/a or supercharged vehicle as u have to have the correct timing curve to suit how the boost comes on as a rule i rule aim 4 a 11.8 a/f the thing i did notice with the t-800 turbo when i logged boost presure is that it went to 9psi when the stall hit , but by around 5000rpm boost had dropped to 5psi slowly dropped untill red line the next step was to fit e- boost etc but were now building lsx stroker for customer with a bigger turbo from ase as the customer wants more, i have no dount that this same set up in a manual would make 400rwkw on my dyno. hope this helps. regards Jason

Are u suggesting different tuner?

[fatas]

you could try a different tuner probly the cheepest option then piss the cam off and get one we all know works !
what diff gears do you have in the rear by the way ??? :confused:

[Clubbin_Yall]

ok cools. Have u any suggestion? My diff gears are standard 3.08's

[jca]

Hi, I'm guessing its the comp cams catalog camshaft 232/234/112lsa?, turbos as a rule don't like a choppy lsa like a 112lsa they do prefer a min of 114lsa that why std camshafts work well because they are 116-118lsa but the t-1000 turbo a big turbo it should make a lot more then that regardless of the lsa u need to log the boost presure ie: to say ur runing 9psi is on thing but the the turbo delivering 9psi from when it comes on boost to ur engine red line because u could olny have 9psi 1500-2000rpm of ur rev range but when give u less power then 9psi from 3000-6500rpm, another thing that would be a good idea is to drop the exhuast and see if it picks up did the tuner do a run with the pipes off?, another vehicle we did wasn't a ase kit but it had custom manifolds and mr turbo billet turbo and a vcm sweep grind camshaft from memory something like 234/238/114lsa and a 3800rpm stall on 15psi (not recommended on std ls1 but engine still going strong), it pulled a constant 15psi thu the whole rev range from 3500rpm - 6800rpm and it made 413rwkw with a constant 11.8 a/f on premium fuel i can't see there being that much of a power loss beween a 112lsa to a 114lsa, I do know of people that have run a 110lsa with boost but it was bigg cudes next vehicle is a 408ci with 240/240/112lsa so maybe i will let u know how that goes. regards jason

[Clubbin_Yall]

im still skeptical as i dont think a cam will make alot of difference. Im shy by at least 50 rwkw.

[Clubbin_Yall]

it ran a constant 10.5 after the spike to over 11 thru the whole rev range due to eboost2. No tuner did no run with pipes off. Yeah let me know what goes down!

[Rub]

A turbo suited cam WILL make a big difference.

Read through exwrx's thread..

He was making around 350rwkw with an ASE kit with the wrong cam, with a cam suited for turbo applications, and a bit more boost he ended up with 422rwkw..

This is through an M6 mind you.

But, research a cam change.

[Captin Obvious]

These are all questions that should be answered by your workshop ?

Don't Power Torque have time for their customers anymore ?

[jca]

Hi, its a hard one as u don't know the grind of ur camshaft, the 10.5 afm when it spikes worries me because the engine could be seeing knock which will shoot a guts full of fuel out the exhaust which will show up on the dyno as a rich a/f but ur tuner should see that on the scan tool?, what fuel system are u using?. regards Jason

[Clubbin_Yall]

honestly power torque didnt really seem to know much and fobbed me off 2 previous times. Not knocking them but i wasnt happy as i seemed to find out more myself than them actually telling me. The tuner krusty was helpful and was willing to help i think it was the superiors fobbing me off as they had higher paying customers job to finish. And the 10.5 im referring to is the boost. It ran a constant 10.5psi across the whole range

[SirNemesis]

If you are making constant boost the whole rev range, how can you blame the turbo kit? :confused:

[Clubbin_Yall]

im running 646cc injectors with a walbro intank pump. Standard rail and pressure reg

[RIDE:42]

im running 646cc injectors with a walbro intank pump. Standard rail and pressure reg
1 pump and a stock reg? better hit the search button :)

[Clubbin_Yall]

1 pump and a stock reg? better hit the search button :)

My fuel delivery is ample. I cant run anymore boost and my injectors are only at 87% duty cycle. So whats the point in upgrading when i dont need it just yet. And as for the boost pressure im not sure if they were fudged or not

[Clubbin_Yall]

the 700 dollar eboost make the boost across the rev range not the supplied 5 pound spring.

[jca]

Hi, I think that will be ur prob, the walbro intake won't keep up , it's hard 4 me to say with out seeing pressure on the dyno but I have seen the pressure drop off with that sort off set up as rpm / boost increase's etc and ur tuner has prob just kept adding fuel , u need to run a boost reference pressure reg so when boost hits/ increase's fuel pressure increase's to keep the a/f's stable the ase single surge tank with the 044 pump is perfect. The fuel system is one thing that should be over engineered , I know people reckon the walbro is good 4 600hp but its not. 60pound injectors shouldn't see 80% duty cycle at ur current power level. regards Jason

[Clubbin_Yall]

my problem with the kit is that it comes no where near the claim of the kilowatt reading they supply at 8psi. Im running 11psi and am no where near it.

[DR-vyss-108]

a stock cam back in it will suprise you bigtime

[Delft Maloo]

If you are making constant boost the whole rev range, how can you blame the turbo kit? :confused:
i dont believe you can.

1 pump and a stock reg? better hit the search button :)

Realistically that system should be fine but seeing as its hitting 11.0afr and lower it could be a little short but thats not the problem, if it was he'd be lean.
60lb's and walbro intank ran nicely upto 400rwkw at 11.8afr in my first turbo kit, not saying it will in others though.

My own built turbo kit with a garrett t04 turbo 228-224-115 cam made anywhere between 376-398.7rwkw with 7-11psi on 2 different sponsors dyno's in sydney and 2 in qld.

Any single turbo eq to a gt35 or more should make plus 350rwkw with a good tune and a half healthy motor on 10psi, if not look for mechanical or tune restrictions as to why and if the engine is seeing a constant acceptable boost level at full noise then it wont be a turbo kit issue.

[Clubbin_Yall]

thanks jason maybe you can ring power torque and tell them what you know lol. The tuner told me that fuel was fine as afr didnt drop off. Well im going to do my fuel system now thats for sure

[Delft Maloo]

my problem with the kit is that it comes no where near the claim of the kilowatt reading they supply at 8psi. Im running 11psi and am no where near it.

if the kit is making the required boost then its not the kit, its the engines/tune inability to use the boost properly thats the issue.

[vuss383]

You need to listen .... There have been some major points thrown at you throughout this thread & alot are not comming from people that don't know what they are talking about . As the old saying goes , you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink .


To sum it up 3 major points :

1. Wrong cam

2. AFR's

3. Fuel system

Rectify these issues & i'm sure you will see more power being delivered .

Another question : Have you installed a 2 bar map sensor ??

Troy

[SirNemesis]

For all we know your gearbox could be slipping away 50kw+. Is that ASE's fault too?

[Oztrack Tuning]

Cams make bugger all difference to turbo max power as long as the turbo isnt maxed out in terms of its output. The highest powered cars are running big cams and some with overlap. Airflow potential is exactly that and overlap is wasted boost. The thing is that bigger cams with longer duration will lower the DCR and this will allow the engine to take more effective doses of timing.

Torque small cams will add power below boost and make cars nicely driveable but will forced the typical timing values down lower due to higher dynamic comp.

Big cams will help with airflow and make the cars more peaky even if there is overlap - as long as the turbo airflow is not already maxed out.

Built engines that are decomped you can do what you like almost. Throw big boost and have effective doses of timing regardless of the camshaft.

A 232 234 112 cam in a stock comp LS1 may allow 2+ psi of boost to be wasted. But it may also allow more timing to be given and likely more power.

The main variable to be concerned with is the quality of the tune and possibly how much the hi stall is wasting. The power curve is effected by cam choice and how you want power to be delivered. Its no point having a huge rush at 3000 and nothing below that. I think thats what a 230s cam will give you.

[Clubbin_Yall]

yes troy 2 bar map sensor is fitted.

[Clubbin_Yall]

For all we know your gearbox could be slipping away 50kw+. Is that ASE's fault too?

Gearbox is not slipping has been built up and run on dyno with box builder to extinguish this claim. Box has every possible performance option. Many coin spent there

[HazzaHSV]

I had 272kw naturally aspirated
Am I reading this right? You had 272rwkw before the turbo kit, and now your making 300rwkw on the same dyno with 11psi. That's almost impossible. Each psi of boost usually see's around 12-15rwkw with the standard cam. There is something very wrong going on as your seeing less than 3psi of power difference. Since you can do the cam swap yourself for basically nothing, it might be worth putting something in that you know the specs of as a starting point.

[Clubbin_Yall]

thanks oz track you insight is welcomed!

[Clubbin_Yall]

and yes hazza thats correct and yes im very surprised myself

[vuss383]

Thats 1 out of how many of us that have said to change the cam . We are talking a stock engine here , no strokers , no decomped engines . :goodjob:

On another note , who built ur box ??

Troy

[Evman]

This is definitely the most popular thread of the night :lol: Nothing like a bit of controversy and troubleshooting to get you going :goodjob:

[Clubbin_Yall]

Thats 1 out of how many of us that have said to change the cam . We are talking a stock engine here , no strokers , no decomped engines . :goodjob:

On another note , who built ur box ??

Troy haha thanks mate i might try hunt a turbo suitable cam tomorrow

[11SLI]

Ive got a scenario...

Ill buy your motor, gearbox and turbo setup...
Ill have a project of putting that into my 1970 Merc :D

FUKN GIDDY GIDDY

[Clubbin_Yall]

nothing like a bit of controversary!

[Clubbin_Yall]

Ive got a scenario...

Ill buy your motor, gearbox and turbo setup...
Ill have a project of putting that into my 1970 Merc :D

FUKN GIDDY GIDDY

That is pretty tempting...hmmm make me an offer

[11SLI]

That is pretty tempting...hmmm make me an offer

$100 for the way its running atm HAHAHAHA

[Oztrack Tuning]

It should make more power than it is even if its a 230s cam, BUT it will drive far nicer with something far smaller or even stock as suggested.

The ASE kit itself is fine.

[Clubbin_Yall]

haha yeah point taken but no sale lol

[Blown 540]

Are you going to apologise to ASE ?i suppose its the risk they take though ,selling kits to people who have no idea.

[JezzaB]

Boost is boost. Probably wringing the turbos neck with the overlap to keep up the boost pressure. Its not the kit, just change the bloody "mystery" cam.

[10sec_rx7]

even changing the cam its not going to make 350rwkw on 8psi with the higher than stock stall converter..

[JezzaB]

even changing the cam its not going to make 350rwkw on 8psi with the higher than stock stall converter..

Come on Dale, isnt the 350rwkw power figure advertised with a 232 234 112lsa cam and a 4200 unlocked stall on 8psi? :lmao:

[10sec_rx7]

yeh mate LOL

but who knows what the cam actually is..

[Evman]

Are you going to apologise to ASE ?.

I recommend the OP should click the "Contact Us" button at the bottom of the forum page and ask the mods if they could change the title of this thread to something a little less... provocative :)

[vuss383]

oh come on guys ... we all know what does & doesn't work !!

Troy

[OUTAtheBloo]

You have got to expect some problems when using components which possibly don't match.

I think you need to seek a pro to get proper advice. I would take note from OZ and Dale as these guys work with turbos.

If you don't wish too, i think you may find you will keep throwing money at it trying to fix it.

Keep us updated, would be interesting what the issue is :)

Dan

[ssdamo]

:confused: my mate Bluess has this same kit fitted to his M6 vtss with a 233/236 110 550 ish crane cam and it makes 350+ rwkw at 8 psi on a mainline everyday of the week. Would a stally chew up that much power ??? His has done nearly 190000 km's and runs like a dream...... something not right with the install im thinking.

[Clubbin_Yall]

:confused: my mate Bluess has this same kit fitted to his M6 vtss with a 233/236 110 550 ish crane cam and it makes 350+ rwkw at 8 psi on a mainline everyday of the week. Would a stally chew up that much power ??? His has done nearly 190000 km's and runs like a dream...... something not right with the install im thinking.

ohh oopps i bolted the turbo on backwards and upsie down. Going to see boiler maker to fix it:rofl:

Omg the shit bolts together mate. Its damn easy shit even you could do it!

[Clubbin_Yall]

Are you going to apologise to ASE ?i suppose its the risk they take though ,selling kits to people who have no idea.

Dreamer mate! There is no way i can make the claimed 350kw or anyone else with an auto 5.7l this is why im pissed cause they claim like an extra 50kw read about it!

[Clubbin_Yall]

even changing the cam its not going to make 350rwkw on 8psi with the higher than stock stall converter..

AMEN brother! Thats the winning quote!

[Rub]

So like, is it school holidays or something?

It seems to me "Clubbin Yall" is just :fishing: fishing :fishing: for everyone else to agree with him to tell him that the ASE kits are rubbish.

These kits are NOT rubbish, as I said before, look at the results that others have had with these kits..

You say you are a mechanic? Surely then, with your experience, you should be able to diagnose the issues you are having.

It will either be something wrong with the egnine i.e. cam, or it will be the fuel system not maintaining a consistant 58psi.

[HYMEY]

Cams make bugger all difference to turbo max power as long as the turbo isnt maxed out in terms of its output. The highest powered cars are running big cams and some with overlap. Airflow potential is exactly that and overlap is wasted boost. The thing is that bigger cams with longer duration will lower the DCR and this will allow the engine to take more effective doses of timing.

Torque small cams will add power below boost and make cars nicely driveable but will forced the typical timing values down lower due to higher dynamic comp.

Big cams will help with airflow and make the cars more peaky even if there is overlap - as long as the turbo airflow is not already maxed out.

Built engines that are decomped you can do what you like almost. Throw big boost and have effective doses of timing regardless of the camshaft.

A 232 234 112 cam in a stock comp LS1 may allow 2+ psi of boost to be wasted. But it may also allow more timing to be given and likely more power.

The main variable to be concerned with is the quality of the tune and possibly how much the hi stall is wasting. The power curve is effected by cam choice and how you want power to be delivered. Its no point having a huge rush at 3000 and nothing below that. I think thats what a 230s cam will give you.

agreed here, i would get the air fuel ratio leaner, is the convertor locked?

with leaner afr the power will come up, also your cam may work, but it may not, race it at willowbank see how it goes, then drop in something like a factory copy cam of the VT GTS from camtech or a ls2 cam if you want the thing to make more topend power run more duration like 230s and run it on a 116 lsa and run more timing.

[10sec_rx7]

AMEN brother! Thats the winning quote!

um your missing the point....

you have really no idea what people are trying to tell you do you?

you have a unknown cam in there, you have a higher stall converter in there

change them both to stock and you will make the 350rwkw.

leave the converter in there and you will only make 300-320rwkw when you change the cam..

ive fitted heaps of these ASE kits and 350rwkw is a walk in the park, even made over 400rwkw on a stock 6L with them..

[Rub]

um your missing the point....

you have really no idea what people are trying to tell you do you?

you have a unknown cam in there, you have a higher stall converter in there

change them both to stock and you will make the 350rwkw.

leave the converter in there and you will only make 300-320rwkw when you change the cam..

ive fitted heaps of these ASE kits and 350rwkw is a walk in the park, even made over 400rwkw on a stock 6L with them..

He doesn't care though, all he wants to hear is people say that the kits are rubbish, which we know is not going to happen.

[Evman]

Dreamer mate! There is no way i can make the claimed 350kw or anyone else with an auto 5.7l this is why im pissed cause they claim like an extra 50kw read about it!

You're joking right? I thought you were a mechanic :weirdo: The kit has been proven time and time again. You have an issue but it's somehow the kits fault? You're the dreamer mate.

[Clubbin_Yall]

im getting all your points lol. I still disagree with a cam change and rubbish the converter i will make 50kw. And remember im running 11psi not 8psi. I should easy have more than the 350kw claimed. All imsaying is i would have been better off with a charger or bigger n/a displacement.

[Evman]

If you sort out the problem with your engine you will make the power. The kit hasn't had any trouble on anyone else's motor :hmmm:

[Clubbin_Yall]

motor is good evman. Run leak down and compression tests wet and dry. Im going to get a cam then another tune.

[Rub]

motor is good evman. Run leak down and compression tests wet and dry. Im going to get a cam then another tune.

The converter will be sucking power.. You will lose ~15-20rwkw with a big converter.

As Jezza said,


Probably wringing the turbos neck with the overlap to keep up the boost pressure.

Think about the mathematics behind it.

Not knowing the spec's is also the problem.

Slide in a stock cam or a turbo suited cam and a stock converter and go for gold..

Have a read of this thread (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=124002)

[10sec_rx7]

im getting all your points lol. I still disagree with a cam change and rubbish the converter i will make 50kw. And remember im running 11psi not 8psi. I should easy have more than the 350kw claimed. All imsaying is i would have been better off with a charger or bigger n/a displacement.

how many auto cars have you tuned with after market converters?

im telling you if you put the stock converter and stock cam back in there it will make easily 350rwkw..

heres a couple of power graphs for you i prepared a while ago

this one even has a dirty NA cam in it..
http://www.castlehillexhaust.com.au/files/ASEgraph1.jpg

this one bog stock VZ 5.7 straight off the wastegate spring
http://www.castlehillexhaust.com.au/files/T800354.jpg

[Rub]

Maybe there are rags in the compressor housing?

:stick:

:rofl:

[10sec_rx7]

dont laugh, ive had a few come in making no power and had rags in the intercooler...

[SVNLTR]

Just let him go and do his own stuff.......

you guys keep feeding him info and his got a answer for answers that are given

=Time waster-

i read a thread on here the other day and some one was saying that -theirs no more tech write ups or build threads.............wonder why ?

[Blown 540]

Dreamer mate! There is no way i can make the claimed 350kw or anyone else with an auto 5.7l this is why im pissed cause they claim like an extra 50kw read about it!

The kit is making the boost and more , it's not rocket science , some good advice in this thread ,but you are taking no notice.

What school do you go to?

[swingtan]

Let's get some facts straight here, because there is a bit if miss-information being used.....


Checking the ASE product specs, directly from their sight shows this...


ASE has just introduced the T-800 Stealth Single Turbo Kit to suit the VT to VZ range of Commodores. The kit includes a custom made manifold and crossover pipe which are both fabricated from high temperature steam pipe. Utilising a Garrett GT4088 turbo, the kit has the potential to generate upwards of 400rwkw. Aimed as an affordable kit, the T-800 uses the finest quality parts including Garrett turbo and a Turbosmart 38mm wastegate. All intercooler piping, manifolds and the header tank are manufactured inhouse at ASE.

At no point do they quote an actual power figure, either in terms peak power or power gained, just what it is capable of doing.
ASE also reference a "Street Commodores" article comparing bolt on power kits. This is the source of the $51/Kw figure. This indicates that the price/power comparison was done for a very specific engine setup and will not translate to a setup that is vastly different.


Now, let's mention a few "general rules"....


The art of modifying an engine means that you need to match all components to work together. You can use the best available components but if they do not compliment each other, you will not make power. You may make sufficient power to destroy an engine.....
An IDC of 87% indicates that you are running out of injector "head room". Generally the cutoff point is around 80% in order to allow for things like transient fueling. So this is an indication of a fuel system that is not quite keeping up.
When dealing with kits of this nature, the best advice is always to talk to the supplier about what your problems are. In the 8 pages of this thread I have not seen any mention of you discussing your concerns with ASE directly. Coming on to a forum to moan about your problems and point the finger doesn't set you in a particularly good light.
If you are going to start a thread like this, at least listen to those who have "been there, done that" and are offering free advice.


While it's understandable that you are frustrated that the expected power levels are not being achieved, you should be looking at the the entire setup and what your expectations were. You might find that with the setup you have, you are making good power but with a slightly different set up you could make a lot more.

Simon.

[Clubbin_Yall]

ive got it booked it at hi torque for a tune on tuesday he said afr at 10 is ridiculous. Should be about 12. And then will source a cam. Might keep the stally as im going to track it. But thanks guys all usefull info just very very disappointed with power output.

[Clubbin_Yall]

and if u check the ase page it say power output of a stock vt 5.7l auto is 347kw trust me its on there

[Rub]

ive got it booked it at hi torque for a tune on tuesday he said afr at 10 is ridiculous. Should be about 12. And then will source a cam. Might keep the stally as im going to track it. But thanks guys all usefull info just very very disappointed with power output.

What is the point in having the car re-tuned, and then changing the cam.

Common sense would suggest to change the cam, and then re-tune.

I would also recommend going for some larger injectors.

[Uwish]

What is the point in having the car re-tuned, and then changing the cam.

Common sense would suggest to change the cam, and then re-tune.

I would also recommend going for some larger injectors.

Maybe a decent tuner will get closer to a respectable power figure.
Then he can save the $$$ instead to blowing it on a cam.

LOL at the AFRs of 10.5. mega rich.
looking forward to hearing the new power figure.

[10sec_rx7]

and if u check the ase page it say power output of a stock vt 5.7l auto is 347kw trust me its on there

yeh stock... cant you read that bit...

yours isnt stock, i has a unknown cam and a higher stall converter...

how hard is it for you to realise that if you put them back to standard it would make the power..

[Rub]

yeh stock... cant you read that bit...

yours isnt stock, i has a unknown cam and a higher stall converter...

how hard is it for you to realise that if you put them back to standard it would make the power..

For this guy.. as hard as a kid year old who just found his dad's porn collection, and grandfathers viagra stash..

[rosey]

Take your car back to Powertorque, tell them your issues and insist they try harder. I know what you mean when you say they don't have much time for the guys who aren't forking out 20k+ for mods. I felt the same way when I got some work done there last year, but they definitely have the potential for good work as they are an experienced outfit. No point throwing away $800+ for another tune, get PT to work for their money. Maybe get transferred to the other branch and have Mark look at the tune.

Change your cam to something boost friendly, get a better fuel system and accept that stally's suck lots of power out of your dyno figure. The ASE kits are excellent and have made people heaps of power in the past. Again I'm flogging the dead horse here as heaps of other guys with more experience than me have suggested the above solutions.

[Djbarnstar]

Get them to check for restriction in the exhaust, as 'atomic maloo' found maybe it partly to do with blocked cat etc???

[Clubbin_Yall]

will do guys. Cat is punched through so no restriction. Im hoping to get more power with the hi torque tune so i dont need to change the cam. As id rather spend it on something else. Ill let you guys know tuesday hoping the leaner afr will bring more power. Should do. Im not going back to power torque they just cant get it right. I could go to the ormeau branch but id prefer someone who will actually talk to me and not just fob me off

[EXCESSV]

lets sum this one up for you as it seems you dont understand:

ASE claim the 347rwkw on there site with a stock 5.7L A4. stock cam, stock stall running 8psi

based on you coming on here and claiming your a mechanic with much knowledge of ls1, etc bla bla bla...should know there is a difference between stock stall, stock cam, stock car to your stalled auto, unknown not turbo friendly cam.

its been proven here by workshops like 10sec_rx7 who has more experience with these cars in his little pinky finger than you have in you whole body that the ASE quoted figure is correct and is easily achievable IF you meet there conditions of there claim. its why companies state will achieve XXXhp/kw IF your car has XXXXXXX mods coz muppets like you would come on here or go to the place they bought there kit and whinge like you are.

so stop whinging about your tune, the kit and blaming everyone but yourself for not doing the research in the first place. after being told put stock stall and stock cam in you should have thanked ppl for there advice, gone back in your workshop and done what they said..achieved the power. told us all that you did and apologise to ASE as you didnt read and understand clear instructions rather than continue this brain numbing rant about how everyone is wrong but you and you're doing it your way anyway.

put your car on your hoist at work, put the stock stall back in, stock cam back in, set to 8psi and take it to whoever to tune it....you WILL see approx the figure ASE state and not be short 50rwkw with 3psi extra

wanna keep the stall? thats fine keep it but understand it saps power so you wont see 350rwkw but probably see 330rwkw on the 8spi

[DaveHAT]

will do guys. Cat is punched through so no restriction. Im hoping to get more power with the hi torque tune so i dont need to change the cam. As id rather spend it on something else. Ill let you guys know tuesday hoping the leaner afr will bring more power. Should do. Im not going back to power torque they just cant get it right. I could go to the ormeau branch but id prefer someone who will actually talk to me and not just fob me off

Not only is it supposedly "underperforming" but it's also worthy of a publicly stated $10000 EPA fine if checked?

Check what you write on a public forum ... :confused:

[Evman]

will do guys. Cat is punched through so no restriction. Im hoping to get more power with the hi torque tune so i dont need to change the cam. As id rather spend it on something else. Ill let you guys know tuesday hoping the leaner afr will bring more power. Should do. Im not going back to power torque they just cant get it right. I could go to the ormeau branch but id prefer someone who will actually talk to me and not just fob me off

Not having a go but what if they don't get more power either? Maybe best to explain the situation to them first. They might have some ideas before going ahead with a full retune.

[Clubbin_Yall]

have spoken to them and explained situation and they believe its in the tune. But he said i should have 340kw with 8psi even with my cam and stally. Hmm..

[exwrx]

You really shouldnt be allowed to start threads like this on bookclub nights *

(*reference for Melbourne bookclub members)

I understand your disappointment, but as others have said, don't bag the kit until you have eliminated all other possibilities.

If the kit was the problem, then mine wouldnt have posted 349rwkw at 6psi with a 220/224/112lsa cam. When changing the cam to something milder but with wider lsa it picked up a heap of midrange, so the previous cam was not working with the turbo effectively.

There is some good advice here, listen to it and act on it instead of whingeing about the kit before all other issues are addressed.

[Clubbin_Yall]

Ok as i previously said thanks guys your input was greatLy appreciated. Some excellent points. Thanks a million. Now as for bagging ASE that never happened i simply put my unhappiness forward with their application on my vehicle and never meant to offend anyone with the same product. However my opinion isnt the bible so dont take it to heart as im not a disciple lol. Well thanks again