V8 Turbo Diesel SS Commodore

[pah]

Hi Guys,

Wishful thinking I guess. Surely this idea has gone through the minds of some at Holden?


The new V8’s compact size enables it to fit within the same space as petrol units, offering GM the flexibility to introduce it in a wide variety of vehicles to meet market demand and new CAFE regulations.

It is expected to deliver 231kW of power and an enormous 705Nm, returing a 25 percent improvement in fuel efficiency over comparable petrol engines.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/12435/gm-45l-v8-duramax-turbo-diesel-details/

705Nm sounds pretty hot. 25% better economy sounds good too.




PAH

[Evman]

Even HSV has looked into the turbo diesel. End result for both was too expensive.

[csv rulz]

Even HSV has looked into the turbo diesel. End result for both was too expensive.

wasnt that one sourced from bmw though? i could be wrong

[Party Pete]

It was indeed and of course the cost to HSV is much greater than the cost to Holden due to the much smaller number of sales to ammortise the development cost over. Also, I have to say that i don't see diesels really being suitable for HSV in the same way that you don't see them in AMG Mercs or M BMWs. The engine characteristics just aren't sporty. But, for Holden which is aimed at a more practical market the diesel has a lot more promise. Especially given Australian's love of towing. Plus, if the economy is good enough it allows GM to sell a lot more of them in the US and not blow their CAFE caps. I am sure that Holden is evaluating this engine as we speak.

[Deco28]

The 4.5l Duramax died along with the Ultra (DOHC) V8.

They are indefinitely shelved.

[Party Pete]

A bit short sighted in light of their need to meet the CAFE rules but then you have to worry about your long term future after you have secured your short term future. Sadly though, having to shelve projects like that will continue to make it hard for them to compete in the future.

[chevypower]

Diesel engines in the US have to meet the toughest emissions standards for diesels anywhere in the world. So diesel engines cost a lot more to make, and then you start losing the fuel economy advantage with all the emissions crap on them. I would say that 4.5L V8 diesel would be a $5000 upgrade over the 5.3L V8. Then the price of the vehicle goes up so much, it's almost up there with the 6.6L V8 turbo diesel price. Would it increase sales, not change anything, or would it take sales away from the 6.6? I can see the concern. Still though, I would like to see that engine come out and the Ford 4.4L V8 diesel, which I believe is coming out in an upcoming upgrade to the Range Rover, so I bet it will come out in some Fords later. When it does, you can bet GM will release the 4.5 to compete.

[pah]

Hi Guys,

Read this and tell me that diesels are never sporty:

Shoehorned into the back of the R8 and driving all four wheels through a six-speed manual gearbox, that is enough to propel the car to 100km/h in just 4.2 seconds (0.4s faster than the regular 4.2-litre twin-turbo petrol V8 R8). With a top speed of 300km/h, the R8 V12 TDI would be the fastest diesel in the world – should Audi put it into production.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/2068D256552F5F15CA2573D1000792E2


If GM fitted an engine with 705Nm to a Commy, forget the fact that it may not rev out like a petrol engine.




PAH

[planetdavo]

People would have to be prepared to pay a serious price penalty for this to ever happen in a Commodore. Translation? Forget it.
Ignoring for a second the engine cost, engineering the rest of the chassis and driveline to withstand the torque, spread over limited sales, would cost a fortune...

[BNGTO]

Price will put it out of the market unless they take one of the truck engines and that is going to be a difficult thing.

Abt just released their 4.2 litre tdi for the new Audi A8 which has 880 Nm and gets from 0-100 in 4.8 seconds, quick for a diesel in a large size car, significantly quicker than the previous 5.2 litre V10 also. Are some interesting diesel things starting to get around.

http://www.abt-sportsline.de/en/products/product-news/artikel/a-sports-car-in-a-classy-outfit-the-new-abt-as8/

to see that sort of engine in the lower priced segments though is a tough ask.

[Party Pete]

Hi Guys,

Read this and tell me that diesels are never sporty:

Shoehorned into the back of the R8 and driving all four wheels through a six-speed manual gearbox, that is enough to propel the car to 100km/h in just 4.2 seconds (0.4s faster than the regular 4.2-litre twin-turbo petrol V8 R8). With a top speed of 300km/h, the R8 V12 TDI would be the fastest diesel in the world – should Audi put it into production.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/2068D256552F5F15CA2573D1000792E2


If GM fitted an engine with 705Nm to a Commy, forget the fact that it may not rev out like a petrol engine.




PAH

Fast but not necessarily sporty. Diesels just don't rev and don't sound very good. It doesn't mean that I am not a fan of them but I don't see any great rush for them to go into performance cars with Audi being the exception.

[XUV]

I suggested a diesel in the Adventra and cross 6/8 range , to target farmers , back in '04

this was the response

Dear Mr M.

Thankyou for your email.

We appreciate the time you have taken to share your comments regarding our
Crewman and Adventra models.

We advise Holden has no plans at this stage to introduce a Diesel powered
Adventra or Crewman model. We advise that Holden design and style vehicles
to suit the needs of the majority of the market. Not all features will
meet everyone's needs. Unfortunately, it is not possible to order vehicles
with combinations other than those offered.

However, we are always eager to improve and develop our products and
feedback such as yours are a great help in planning and development. Please
be assured that your concerns and suggestions have been documented and may
be considered for future improvements to our product range.


Kind Regards,


Adrian Briones
Holden Customer Assistance

[Radikl]

Impressive figures for the diesel.

Noticed torque range 1800-3000 rpms....

Interesting

[Evman]

Impressive figures for the diesel.

Noticed torque range 1800-3000 rpms....

Interesting

And then time for a gear change at 4000rpm. 25% improved economy over a 'comparable engine'. That's a bit vague. Does it mean a turbo 4.5L, or a V8 that produces similar power, or a V8 that produces similar torque?

Edit:

I just noticed the date on the article is May 6th, 2008. Holden (and HSV) would have already investigated whether or not this engine would be worthwhile. My money is on no.

[pah]

Hi Guys,

Quoting Goauto again:

“At the moment, there’s a lot of stuff done under an environmental heading that is just a cloak for increasing tax revenues.

“Diesels will get you a good 30 per cent better fuel consumption, so if they’re interested in cutting down the consumption of fuel, why not make the tax levy on that the same as petrol? But they don’t. They figure they’re going to lose money because diesels get better fuel consumption and they put the tax levy up."

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/C7E4F4C57A4524DFCA2574790007F40E

That doesn't prove that Uncle Tom sees a future for diesels in HSV's, but it shows that diesels are a good way to reduce consumption and carbon emissions and the other stories show that diesels can give very impressive performance.

The story seems to suggest that diesel prices are held artificially high to deter the adoption of diesel power, know that a mass migration to diesels would radically reduce tax $ to the government.

If you want a good fuel economy comparison, check out the diesel and petrol Landcruisers. The diesel is around 8 - 10 mpg more economical .

The Ford Econetic (diesel) is around $10k cheaper than the Toyota Prius and is claimed to use less fuel. If we can't stand the thought of a diesel HSV or SS, at least encourage everyone else to drive a diesel. The reduced fuel demand should lower fuel prices.





PAH

[pah]

Sorry Guys - One more from GoAuto:

Although powered by a mighty GM-sourced 6.6-litre turbo-diesel engine, the Trident Iceni has a unique eight-speed automatic transmission that enables the car to cruise at 113km/h with the engine ticking over at just 980rpm. Testing at the Millbrook proving ground in the UK shows that this results in a fuel consumption figure of only 4.0L/100km when cruising at that speed, providing a cruising range of more than 3000km.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/BC4EF4A0732F2F60CA2574B40009EE10


PAH

[Party Pete]

Interestingly, if everyone switched to diesel the price of diesel would likely go up. The reason is that when they process crude oil, they get 3 grades of product, which basically come out to tar, diesel/kerosene/jet fuel and petrol. The ratios of the products produced don't change so if demand goes up for diesel then that pushes the price of diesel up and correspondingly, the price of petrol goes down. We saw this before the GFC because the move towards diesel for the majority of private transport in Europe and high demand for air travel really squeezed the supply of diesel. Of course, the government does also hit diesel with higher taxes to make matters worse.

[pah]

Interestingly, if everyone switched to diesel the price of diesel would likely go up. The reason is that when they process crude oil, they get 3 grades of product, which basically come out to tar, diesel/kerosene/jet fuel and petrol. The ratios of the products produced don't change so if demand goes up for diesel then that pushes the price of diesel up and correspondingly, the price of petrol goes down. We saw this before the GFC because the move towards diesel for the majority of private transport in Europe and high demand for air travel really squeezed the supply of diesel. Of course, the government does also hit diesel with higher taxes to make matters worse.

Hi Pete,

Yes exactly. If we can get most people driving diesels, petrol becomes a byproduct driving down prices.

The flip side of the coin - I could live with a diesel rocket ship.


PAH

[Deco28]

Sorry Guys - One more from GoAuto:

Although powered by a mighty GM-sourced 6.6-litre turbo-diesel engine, the Trident Iceni has a unique eight-speed automatic transmission that enables the car to cruise at 113km/h with the engine ticking over at just 980rpm. Testing at the Millbrook proving ground in the UK shows that this results in a fuel consumption figure of only 4.0L/100km when cruising at that speed, providing a cruising range of more than 3000km.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/BC4EF4A0732F2F60CA2574B40009EE10


PAH

That's cool.

And with the torque a 6.6l tt would offer, well, a 980rpm it'd still move LOL.

[Party Pete]

I recently drove a Jaguar XF with the new 3.0 turbo diesel. They are an amazing engine. More responsive and urgent that the Monaro due to that instant torque and never feel strained in any way. Smooth too. This sort of engine in a Commodore or Falcon would blow the opposition away if only they could get the price to an acceptable level. Certainly a far cry from the old 4.2 Patrol diesel I used to have.