L98 Rebuild

[HOLDAN]

Just tossing round some ideas. The VE SS has 110,000km on the clock. Was thinking FI but thouht I should freshen up her up before going that way. Was thinking stroker. So here a few considerations:

- what size stroker kit?
- will my Isky 224/227 cam suit a sroker?
- should i get higher flowing heads?
- how long would the re-build take - number of days without car?
- would I be better buying a bigger ci crate motor?

Regards, Dan

[SS Enforcer]

Stroker will be a 408 i think it is 4"stroke x 4" bore.
You can use your current cam yes.
Depending on your budget but your current heads will work well a port job wouldn't hurt at all.
How long .... depends on who does it as you block will need re honing so a full strip down and rebuild could be 2 weeks but it's really shop dependent.


Probably a good ide to have a chat with a sponsor near you.

cheers

[killthatmozzy]

You can use your cam, but why not go bigger if your doing full stroker rebuild?

[HOLDAN]

Stroker will be a 408 i think it is 4"stroke x 4" bore.
You can use your current cam yes.
Depending on your budget but your current heads will work well a port job wouldn't hurt at all.
How long .... depends on who does it as you block will need re honing so a full strip down and rebuild could be 2 weeks but it's really shop dependent.


Probably a good ide to have a chat with a sponsor near you.

cheers

Thanks for this - very good info.

I read somewhere recently that the L98 block wouldn't take much machining work - have you heard that??

regards, dan

[HOLDAN]

You can use your cam, but why not go bigger if your doing full stroker rebuild?

Good point - i was thinking about that but I'm also trying to keep a lid on the cost so I'd rather re-use my current cam

[dazzak75]

If you are going FI, then yo have to be careful of the cam selection as not all cams are suited to FI, but the 224/227 is quite a mild cam and would suit FI from what I have been told.

I have been going through the do I do this, or do I do that, I have decided a stroker kit, big cam, I am not going to FI or turbo mine, just brute V8 power NA.

[Vulture]

You're in QLD, it would be worth the trip to PowerTorque as they pretty much specialize in what you want. I know I sound like a fanboy but there really are very few other options for a beautifully built stroker that will last. They have a very, very good engine builder there who has done hundreds and hundreds of strokers etc. Engine dyno etc. They will be able to give you an idea of time off the road etc. Might be quicker than you think.

[GenReaper]

Thanks for this - very good info.

I read somewhere recently that the L98 block wouldn't take much machining work - have you heard that??

regards, dan

Yep, i heard that also from my Engine builder.
Thin bores, big cubes and forced induction could end up in tears, PSI dependant.
Also they are known to flex the block under boost and also stress timing chains.
I was looking at going FI 408 cubes but went NA LS3 instead.

To go down that path your better off with cast iron or an Warhawk block.
Warhawk block also have priority oil feed that doesnt end up with main bearing problems like current L98.
Big $$$$ tho.

[vassis]

Been a while since u have posted soemthing did you end up doing anything yet mate?

[HOLDAN]

Been a while since u have posted soemthing did you end up doing anything yet mate?

Been getting prices for the kit. Biggest hold up is trying to get someone to tell me exactly what is required in terms of parts. Got a good quote for crank, rods and pistons but I don't want to buy those and then find out there's another $5k worth of extras. I know I'll need injectors - 40 pounders plus bigger fuel pump. Will get heads cnc'ed. Will need gaskets. But after that I'm not sure.

[dazzak75]

You're in QLD, it would be worth the trip to PowerTorque as they pretty much specialize in what you want. I know I sound like a fanboy but there really are very few other options for a beautifully built stroker that will last. They have a very, very good engine builder there who has done hundreds and hundreds of strokers etc. Engine dyno etc. They will be able to give you an idea of time off the road etc. Might be quicker than you think.

Well I am still up in the air as to what I am going to do, I want to hit the majic 600rwhp mark, but doing that NA will be very difficult and expensive, it'll be a LSX block, big stroker kit, somewhere about the 440 mark, that'll definately end the account, so maybe a good set of heads and FI and a mild stroker set up, that'll hopefully get me there.

[HOLDAN]

You're in QLD, it would be worth the trip to PowerTorque as they pretty much specialize in what you want. I know I sound like a fanboy but there really are very few other options for a beautifully built stroker that will last. They have a very, very good engine builder there who has done hundreds and hundreds of strokers etc. Engine dyno etc. They will be able to give you an idea of time off the road etc. Might be quicker than you think.

Yes I've used PT before for a re-tune. And my neighbour had a very tuff na bulid done on his VX there. He raves about them. Problem is PT are more than 2 hours away. So still tossing up who to get to do the work. Toss up between using a local vs PT. I like the local option in case there are issues pos bulid.

[Vulture]

Yes I've used PT before for a re-tune. And my neighbour had a very tuff na bulid done on his VX there. He raves about them. Problem is PT are more than 2 hours away. So still tossing up who to get to do the work. Toss up between using a local vs PT. I like the local option in case there are issues pos bulid.

PT are more than two hours away from me as well (Kingaroy). Depends on whether you want it done properly or not.

[vassis]

Been getting prices for the kit. Biggest hold up is trying to get someone to tell me exactly what is required in terms of parts. Got a good quote for crank, rods and pistons but I don't want to buy those and then find out there's another $5k worth of extras. I know I'll need injectors - 40 pounders plus bigger fuel pump. Will get heads cnc'ed. Will need gaskets. But after that I'm not sure.

Yeah from my experience i dropped a cammed L98 in my VX 12 grand later still need to change diff gears and a my 2nd exhaust system cause unless u already have them good bits that work with what you got your going to go over budget like i did

Now i got a pretty big cammed L98 struggling to hit 290RWKW from a wrong setup and no money left

Might be an idea if you let people know how much you are willing to spend for more accurate and realistic options

Where abouts are you in brissy?

[6.2L.Club]

As a suggestion, if you dont want the worry of getting the right parts etc, build time, etc etc, get an already built L98/LS3 stroker from Street Quick Performance here in WA, you wont find a better built engine, then sell your engine when your ready, minimal down time, complete package and bloody tough engine. Altenatively he can quote on all the parts you need to do the whole thing.

Street Quick Performance (http://www.streetquick.com.au/)

That cam is way too small to take advantage of the extra cubes. it would be like putting FI on with no intercooler, you just wouldnt do it.

[HOLDAN]

Yeah from my experience i dropped a cammed L98 in my VX 12 grand later still need to change diff gears and a my 2nd exhaust system cause unless u already have them good bits that work with what you got your going to go over budget like i did

Now i got a pretty big cammed L98 struggling to hit 290RWKW from a wrong setup and no money left

Might be an idea if you let people know how much you are willing to spend for more accurate and realistic options

Where abouts are you in brissy?

That's exactly what i want to avoid. Your situation sounds very frustrating.

I live in Toowoomba - bout 2 hrs west of Brissy

[HOLDAN]

As a suggestion, if you dont want the worry of getting the right parts etc, build time, etc etc, get an already built L98/LS3 stroker from Street Quick Performance here in WA, you wont find a better built engine, then sell your engine when your ready, minimal down time, complete package and bloody tough engine. Altenatively he can quote on all the parts you need to do the whole thing.

Street Quick Performance (http://www.streetquick.com.au/)

That cam is way too small to take advantage of the extra cubes. it would be like putting FI on with no intercooler, you just wouldnt do it.

Yes I think I'd prefer to buy a complete build and swap it over then sell my current engine. I understand the issue about my cam and it's a very good point. I'm wanting the car to maintain street manners and avoid a high stall.

[6.2L.Club]

Yes I think I'd prefer to buy a complete build and swap it over then sell my current engine. I understand the issue about my cam and it's a very good point. I'm wanting the car to maintain street manners and avoid a high stall.

if you want to stay with a stock stall then yes going a bigger cam will be and issue, the tried and tested 224/228 comp would be as big as youd want to go but if you still plan on going FI then something that suits that would be best.

Would be good to let us know of your budget as doing a stroker isnt exactly cheap when you use quality parts, dont forget even after you buy the parts you have to add all the machining, balancing and assembly costs aswell.

Depending on if you go FI later on will also affect thing like heads, compression etc.

The sort of experience Street Quick has with building tough strokers.......

Black Hawk GTO 1000rwhp (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=120370&highlight=black+hawk)

[HOLDAN]

if you want to stay with a stock stall then yes going a bigger cam will be and issue, the tried and tested 224/228 comp would be as big as youd want to go but if you still plan on going FI then something that suits that would be best.

Would be good to let us know of your budget as doing a stroker isnt exactly cheap when you use quality parts, dont forget even after you buy the parts you have to add all the machining, balancing and assembly costs aswell.

Depending on if you go FI later on will also affect thing like heads, compression etc.

The sort of experience Street Quick has with building tough strokers.......

Black Hawk GTO 1000rwhp (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=120370&highlight=black+hawk)

Thanks for that. I'm trying to put a list together of ALL costs associated with the build - drive in drive out. In terms of budget - I'd like to keep it around $10k but I want to see what the real cost is and maybe I'll adjust my thinking.

I checked out Street QUick's website and it wouldn't load the engine building page.

[stompa]

do the fI first if your engine is still ok then when you get bored of that build the motor to suit more boost

[boggers007]

i might be wrong but i thought the blackhawk was soley built by marks workshop not street quick?

[VYSHSV8]

i might be wrong but i thought the blackhawk was soley built by marks workshop not street quick?

Engine built by SQP, blower and accessories by Marks Workshop

[HOLDAN]

OK I've made the decision and taken the plunge and ordered the following:

Callies 4" crank
Callies H beam rods
CP Pistons
CH Flat top reliefs
King HP series chamfered rod bearings
King main bearings
LS3 injectors
Morel lifters
224/234 @ 112 Comp Cam
CNC ported L98 heads

Work is being done by Paramount Performance here in Toowoomba

Will keep you updated as the build progresses

[GenReaper]

Ahh, at least your bought some good lifters too, most people skimp on them.

Should be a good combo.

[HOLDAN]

Ahh, at least your bought some good lifters too, most people skimp on them.

Should be a good combo.

Thanks - I'm trying to balance good quality parts with reasonable pricing. So far so good.

[darthvader]

i wouldnt worry about a rebuild, for the same price, u could buy a crate engine, i know that GM motorsports actually do crate engines with work already done to them

[HOLDAN]

i wouldnt worry about a rebuild, for the same price, u could buy a crate engine, i know that GM motorsports actually do crate engines with work already done to them

I looked at that option but wanted to know what parts were actually going in and who was building it

[HDSNAP]

yeh true you want to know who built it and make sure all the parts you want are in it when do you expect it to be finished?

[HOLDAN]

yeh true you want to know who built it and make sure all the parts you want are in it when do you expect it to be finished?

Once the parts arrive, I'm hoping it will be ready within 2 weeks. But I'm not too worried as long as the work is done well

[darthvader]

i dont think you could question GM motorsports quality of work. They are a pretty good company. After all, they did come up with the rip shift

[Evman]

Can't wait to see it mate :)

On a side note a 4" stroke on a 4" bore is a 402. A 408 is 30thou oversized ;)

[HOLDAN]

Can't wait to see it mate :)

On a side note a 4" stroke on a 4" bore is a 402. A 408 is 30thou oversized ;)

Yes that's correct - 402 is what it will be. Did I say 408 somewhere??

[Evman]

Na mate it was just brought up along the way that some thought the 4x4" was 408 :)

[HOLDAN]

Na mate it was just brought up along the way that some thought the 4x4" was 408 :)

All good - cleared it up for me too thanks.

[HOLDAN]

OK I've made the decision and taken the plunge and ordered the following:

Callies 4" crank
Callies H beam rods
CP Pistons
CH Flat top reliefs
King HP series chamfered rod bearings
King main bearings
LS3 injectors
Morel lifters
224/234 @ 112 Comp Cam
CNC ported L98 heads
Durabond Cam bearings

Work is being done by Paramount Performance here in Toowoomba

Will keep you updated as the build progresses

UPDATE: Parts have been ordered - delivery in about 2 weeks and then the build will start. :)

[SS Enforcer]

Been getting prices for the kit. Biggest hold up is trying to get someone to tell me exactly what is required in terms of parts. Got a good quote for crank, rods and pistons but I don't want to buy those and then find out there's another $5k worth of extras. I know I'll need injectors - 40 pounders plus bigger fuel pump. Will get heads cnc'ed. Will need gaskets. But after that I'm not sure.

Who are you using for parts mate ?

The injecters you have are 42lb's so you won't have to change them IMHO there the same as the injectors in the LS7's and thats what I have in mine. You will hit over 90% duty cycle with the cam you have but thats only right up top so they should be fine it should be fine. That cam will stop making power at about 5800 I think but will be very nice in a street car, mine tops out at 5300 holds to 5500 but it has tons of grungt down low and in the midrange. It also doesn't need fueling every 2nd day :)

I just noticed you ordered injectors they are the same as you have allready save your bucks as I think the stock injectors cost a fortune .... I bought an almost brand new set for $58 on fleabay ... seriously they cost $90 each from GM

[silvervyss]

Give nick @ NJC a call; he is a sponsor on this forumn. Building big Hp engines is his specialty and he won't stuff you around.

[HOLDAN]

Who are you using for parts mate ?

The injecters you have are 42lb's so you won't have to change them IMHO there the same as the injectors in the LS7's and thats what I have in mine. You will hit over 90% duty cycle with the cam you have but thats only right up top so they should be fine it should be fine. That cam will stop making power at about 5800 I think but will be very nice in a street car, mine tops out at 5300 holds to 5500 but it has tons of grungt down low and in the midrange. It also doesn't need fueling every 2nd day :)

I just noticed you ordered injectors they are the same as you have allready save your bucks as I think the stock injectors cost a fortune .... I bought an almost brand new set for $58 on fleabay ... seriously they cost $90 each from GM

I'm getting the parts from Nick @ NJC Corp - he's been really helpful and giving me a very good deal.

I was told the LS3 injectors are bigger thenn the L98's and would be ideal for the 402 setup - that's why I bought them

[SS Enforcer]

I'm getting the parts from Nick @ NJC Corp - he's been really helpful and giving me a very good deal.

I was told the LS3 injectors are bigger thenn the L98's and would be ideal for the 402 setup - that's why I bought them

The injectors are the same mate like I said before have em on my stroker and they use the same injector flow rate for tuning. Did some searching on ls1 tech for part numbers do some for yourself they . I did a lot of checking before I bought the ones I did and saved a lot of money.

Part # 12576341 LS7/LS3/L76 39lb/hr fuel injectors EV6 conn. Short body.

GM only have 1 type of injector in the gen4 car motors the L92 trucks are a tad different. The L76 and L98 are exactly the same.

Nick knows his shit so I suspect he may be getting you the LS9 injectors which flow more I believe.

cheers

[HOLDAN]

The injectors are the same mate like I said before have em on my stroker and they use the same injector flow rate for tuning. Did some searching on ls1 tech for part numbers do some for yourself they . I did a lot of checking before I bought the ones I did and saved a lot of money.

Part # 12576341 LS7/LS3/L76 39lb/hr fuel injectors EV6 conn. Short body.

GM only have 1 type of injector in the gen4 car motors the L92 trucks are a tad different. The L76 and L98 are exactly the same.

Nick knows his shit so I suspect he may be getting you the LS9 injectors which flow more I believe.

cheers

All good - the injectors are off Nick's car. I thought he said LS3 - he mayhave said something different. I am sure whatever ones he is sending, they'll do the job

[HOLDAN]

Thought I'd provide an update - here are some pics of the parts ordered:

http://s466.photobucket.com/albums/rr21/holdanvess/402%20Stroker/

Regards, Dan

[Vulture]

Those bits look tasty!

[HOLDAN]

Those bits look tasty!

mmmmmmmm yes there are :)

[dazzak75]

402 stroker, can the L98 go any bigger or do you have to go to a LS3 block to get anything bigger, I thought the L98 could go to 408, I thought I read it somewhere, ut could be wrong.

[SVNLTR]

402 stroker, can the L98 go any bigger or do you have to go to a LS3 block to get anything bigger, I thought the L98 could go to 408, I thought I read it somewhere, ut could be wrong.

Around 4.025-4.030 will get you 407-408-

[HOLDAN]

402 stroker, can the L98 go any bigger or do you have to go to a LS3 block to get anything bigger, I thought the L98 could go to 408, I thought I read it somewhere, ut could be wrong.

Yes as far as I know, the L98 cn go 408 @ 30thou oversize. I have also heard the L98 block is not very thick so I wasn't keen to machine it. That's why I stuck with 402 - 4" crank in the standard bore.

[dazzak75]

I guess then going the 402 isn't too bad, what will be the torque and power increases by just going the 402 instead of the 408, I am still deciding what to do with mine, I am looking at FI eventually, so I was thinking a 408 stroker or maybe even a 416 stroker using an LS3 block.

[SVNLTR]

I guess then going the 402 isn't too bad, what will be the torque and power increases by just going the 402 instead of the 408, I am still deciding what to do with mine, I am looking at FI eventually, so I was thinking a 408 stroker or maybe even a 416 stroker using an LS3 block.

if going fi you must work with a small bore-(wether its alloy or iron unless you are working with a aftermarket block which takes meat into accounts)

theirs no room for error on the ls3 block when going fi-

just go back in history and see that we all have had issues with sleeve movement and head gaskets issues when pushing decent power in fi-(hence we go to iron blocks,or a ton of work on alloy blocks which we are better buying the proper block in the first place or even decent heavy ass heads)

theirs only a 5 to 10 thou oversize in ls3 vs .020 to .025 in a ls2,l76,l98 engine-

[dazzak75]

if going fi you must work with a small bore-(wether its alloy or iron unless you are working with a aftermarket block which takes meat into accounts)

theirs no room for error on the ls3 block when going fi-

just go back in history and see that we all have had issues with sleeve movement and head gaskets issues when pushing decent power in fi-(hence we go to iron blocks,or a ton of work on alloy blocks which we are better buying the proper block in the first place or even decent heavy ass heads)

theirs only a 5 to 10 thou oversize in ls3 vs .020 to .025 in a ls2,l76,l98 engine-


What would you suggest if I am going to FI eventually, I have been doing a bit of investigation work, surfing the net mainly, I am after over 600rwhp, that is the goal for my ute, I thought about a NA engine, but that is a huge engine, and the sound of a supercharger won out, I will go a top mount unit over the procharger or vortex.

What is a set up that will give this power to me?

Sorry for hijacking your thread HOLDON

[SVNLTR]

What would you suggest if I am going to FI eventually, I have been doing a bit of investigation work, surfing the net mainly, I am after over 600rwhp, that is the goal for my ute, I thought about a NA engine, but that is a huge engine, and the sound of a supercharger won out, I will go a top mount unit over the procharger or vortex.

What is a set up that will give this power to me?

Sorry for hijacking your thread HOLDON

Looking for one hit wonders or something that's going to last more then 5-10,000 kays ?

how many times will it be driven

what fuel

turbo or n20 or blower ?

whats the budget if their is such a thing ?

for how long i would be lying if i knew-

i know a ls3 with a 1900 but a (2300 room to grow ) and some good parts would get their in factory form

[HOLDAN]

What would you suggest if I am going to FI eventually, I have been doing a bit of investigation work, surfing the net mainly, I am after over 600rwhp, that is the goal for my ute, I thought about a NA engine, but that is a huge engine, and the sound of a supercharger won out, I will go a top mount unit over the procharger or vortex.

What is a set up that will give this power to me?

Sorry for hijacking your thread HOLDON

No worries - you might want to start a new thread. This one is about my 402 build - nothing to do with FI

[dazzak75]

Looking for one hit wonders or something that's going to last more then 5-10,000 kays ?

how many times will it be driven

what fuel

turbo or n20 or blower ?

whats the budget if their is such a thing ?

for how long i would be lying if i knew-

i know a ls3 with a 1900 but a (2300 room to grow ) and some good parts would get their in factory form

I want something that will be able last, I don't want to be replacing engines.

It is mainly a weekend driver, I have a work car thankfully

I only run it on 98 octane

I will be looking at a mp2300 blower

I will be doing it in parts, engine first, then the blower, looking at eventually spending around 15 - 20k

I currently have the L98 with a VCM7 cam, VCM OTR, 3" x-force exhaust and 4>1 headers.

[dazzak75]

Sorry HOLDAN, this thread is about your build, I have started my own thread, keep the updates coming and keep including the pics, will be interesting to see what the gains are from your build.

[HOLDAN]

Sorry HOLDAN, this thread is about your build, I have started my own thread, keep the updates coming and keep including the pics, will be interesting to see what the gains are from your build.

All good dazzak - thankyou. Will post pics as I get them.

Good luck with your project.

[demoVE6ltr]

I want something that will be able last, I don't want to be replacing engines.

It is mainly a weekend driver, I have a work car thankfully

I only run it on 98 octane

I will be looking at a mp2300 blower

I will be doing it in parts, engine first, then the blower, looking at eventually spending around 15 - 20k

I currently have the L98 with a VCM7 cam, VCM OTR, 3" x-force exhaust and 4>1 headers.

what power u making now with the VCM7?

[dazzak75]

what power u making now with the VCM7?

334rwkw with 22" rims, I also put in a 3.7 diff so now have 530Nm torque,

I started another thread FI for VE Ute

[HOLDAN]

Another update:

Just sorted the cam out and thanks to Nick @ NJC Corp for all has help. Have ordered it and it along with the rest of the goodies will be shipped up to here fri or mon. :xmas:

[HOLDAN]

All parts have arrived. Now just waiting on the crank. Very keen to get the build started. Updates to come